---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 06/14/04: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:55 AM - Subaru engines (Phil Brown) 2. 04:51 AM - Re: Subaru engines (Jeremy Davey) 3. 06:07 AM - Re: Subaru engines (Pete Lawless) 4. 07:20 AM - Re: Feedback problem with the radio (Jos Okhuijsen) 5. 07:38 AM - Re: First Flight for ZK-TIM Monowheel Classic (Andy Draper) 6. 08:51 AM - Re: Feedback problem with the radio (Leo J. Corbalis) 7. 09:02 AM - Re: Feedback problem with the radio (Fergus Kyle) 8. 10:04 AM - Re: Subaru engines (Rowland Carson) 9. 10:04 AM - Re: FL13 spacer (Rowland Carson) 10. 12:53 PM - brakes and stuff (Paul Stewart) 11. 07:36 PM - Re: Feedback problem with the radio (n3eu@comcast.net) 12. 07:36 PM - Re: Feedback problem with the radio (n3eu@comcast.net) 13. 08:33 PM - Weeping drain valves (Paul McAllister) 14. 08:54 PM - Dynon (Craig Ellison) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:55:29 AM PST US From: "Phil Brown" Subject: Europa-List: Subaru engines --> Europa-List message posted by: "Phil Brown" HI As a Vans RV builder I must apologise for invading your mail group but as someone who is about to take on the leviathan task of getting the PFA to accept a Subaru engine in my RV I turn to those who have "done it before". I've been told that in the long distant past there were europas flying with Subaru's under the bonnet....if you were that person or could point me in the right direction I would be eternally grateful. phil brown ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:51:18 AM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Subaru engines --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Phil, There are certainly a few Subaru-powered Europas still flying, and some under construction. Names that come immediately to mind are Simon Collins, Mark Jackson, Bill Wynne, but I'm sure there are others too. Kind regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Tail done Standard XS wings awaiting mods and closing CM ready for installation in fuse (with airbrakes fittings), but holding off while I do a load of small jobs first 1100 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phil Brown Subject: Europa-List: Subaru engines --> Europa-List message posted by: "Phil Brown" HI As a Vans RV builder I must apologise for invading your mail group but as someone who is about to take on the leviathan task of getting the PFA to accept a Subaru engine in my RV I turn to those who have "done it before". I've been told that in the long distant past there were europas flying with Subaru's under the bonnet....if you were that person or could point me in the right direction I would be eternally grateful. phil brown ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:26 AM PST US From: "Pete Lawless" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Subaru engines --> Europa-List message posted by: "Pete Lawless" Phil Have a word with David Hunter at Kemble. David is as near as NSI get to having a UK rep. Phone number is 07939 157426. Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Phil Brown Subject: Europa-List: Subaru engines --> Europa-List message posted by: "Phil Brown" --> HI As a Vans RV builder I must apologise for invading your mail group but as someone who is about to take on the leviathan task of getting the PFA to accept a Subaru engine in my RV I turn to those who have "done it before". I've been told that in the long distant past there were europas flying with Subaru's under the bonnet....if you were that person or could point me in the right direction I would be eternally grateful. phil brown == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. --- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:20:07 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Feedback problem with the radio From: Jos Okhuijsen --> Europa-List message posted by: Jos Okhuijsen It's side tone level to be reduced, Jos Paul McAllister kirjoitti Sun, 13 Jun 2004 22:49:49 -0500: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" > > > Hi Fred, > > To answer your question my set up has a push to talk for transmitting. > If > your theory is correct I should be able to improve the situation by > reducing > the microphone gain. The GX60's internal intercom has the following > parameters that can be set: > > - RF Level > - Headphone level > - Side tone level > - Intercom level > - Intercom squelch > - Noise level > > I was hoping to set one that said "Microphone gain", but alas no. I will > dig > out the manual tonight and see if any of the above settings might help. > > Cheers, Paul > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fergus Kyle" > To: > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Feedback problem with the radio > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" >> >> Paul, >> It can sometimes be transmitted through tight clamping of > units >> in the system, but this does not sound like that symptom. If your >> headset >> earcups 'leak' then the acoustic feedback would be the cause. Tight > earcups >> tend to reduce that. >> Is your system operated as 'VOX' - voice-operated > transmission? >> That is, do you have the sound of your voice open the transmitter, or do > you >> press a transmitt button? If the former, the sound from nearby will > trigger >> the transmitter open as well as the intercom. VOX is operated by two >> datum >> voltages - a large one which triggers the transmission and a smaller one >> below which the transmitter shuts off. Both of these voltages is set by >> a >> pair of potentiometers usually somewhere moderately available to the >> avionics bod who installs/repairs same. The same may apply to the >> intercom >> unit. >> We'll keep an eye open for your solution when it comes. >> Cheers, Ferg >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Paul McAllister" >> To: >> Subject: Europa-List: Feedback problem with the radio >> >> >> | --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" >> >> | >> | Hi All, >> | >> | >> | I have an odd problem with my GX60 when trying to transmit. I found >> it >> would start oscillating, it would start with an echo and then break >> into >> full audio feedback, similar to as what a PA system does when the > microphone >> is too close to the speaker. I fooled with the problem for the longest > time >> and I finally narrowed it down to my LightSpeed headsets. I called >> LightSpeed and sure enough they knew about the problem. They invited me >> to >> send the headsets back and they would fit a new shielded battery box. > They >> came back and they "sorta" worked, but unfortunately they would still do > it. >> | >> | A this point I resigned myself to using my Telex 3500's. These always >> seemed to work, but today they started to exhibit the same problem... >> now > I >> am in a bit of a quandary on how to trouble shoot this problem. I do >> not >> have an audio panel at this time, I am using the internal intercom in >> the >> GX60. >> | >> | Does anyone have any ideas where to head with this. >> | >> | Paul >> | >> | >> | >> | >> | >> | >> | >> >> > > -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:38:15 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: First Flight for ZK-TIM Monowheel Classic From: "Andy Draper" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Andy Draper" Dear Tim, Many congratulations on getting your Europa into the air (and back down again). I wish you all the very best and safe flying. Don't forget to check and clean those filters regularly before every flight initially, until you have faith that they don't need so much attention. Good luck Andy -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tim Ward Stillwell; Ian Bentham; Greg Andy Draper Subject: Europa-List: First Flight for ZK-TIM Monowheel Classic --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tim Ward" Well, after 7 years 1 month, with an extended high pressure system enveloped the Canterbury Plains my wife asked me if this is THE day. I said "I suppose so, no excuses now". ZK-TIM had done 2.5 hours of ground running, taxy tests (Low speed and High ish speeds) and all looked good. A few minor problems that would have to go on the MEL (Minimum Equipment List..airline jargon) but quite within the DDPG (airline jargon) otherwise after 5 hours on flying other Europas I was confident. With the family standing outside the Wigram hangar I completed the run-up and now 'let the truth be told'. The Rotax 912S with Airmaster Prop (empty weight 841 lbs) was very eager to show me what it can do, and it didn't let me down. A very rapid acceleration occurred, the forward pressure on the stick to raise the tail was soon calling and what an impressive performance. Climbed away at 65kts and the undercarriage came up with ease. Climb selected on the Airmaster Prop I had to bring the MP back quickly to stop busting altitudes! and gaining too much speed. Took it around the circuit, with a glide approach always available, to try out the controls and they were very responsive. A little port aileron down needed to stop roll (may be my weight) otherwise rudder balance good and elevator very effective. Did an approach and overshoot to 200ft to try out the gear extension/ retraction again (and wave to the family) and then climbed to 3000ft out of the circuit to try one clean stall recovering at the buffet and that was sweet. Tried it with gear/flap down only to the initial buffet and that was sweet. Very mild, no wing drop and easy recovery. Oil temperatures and pressures were all good, within the Rotax parameters. This was a relief as I have the Classic cowlings and for the Rotax 912S I changed the position of the Oil Cooler to underneath the spinner within the same lines as the lower cowling. Airmaster Propeller worked very well as expected. Then returned for a landing on the grass approaching 65 kts and brought it back to 60kts and it quietly settled on the grass. Many thanks to all you guys for tremendous help and friendship during the building. Also to Andy and Neville and John for their wisdom and advice; Europa and Ivan for such a 'classy' aircraft, and my wife, Adrienne, whom I married at the beginning of the build, produced 3 children during the build, and we are still together at the end of the build!!! A special thanks to Gavin Lee, Russell Lister, Pat Scotter Ron Smith and Tony K. of NZ, who have always been so accommodating with their expertise. Keep building, as that 'Europa smile' when I returned back, captured by the family , is well worth waiting for. Cheers, Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street, Fendalton, Christchurch, 8005 New Zealand. Ph 0064 3 3515166 ward.t@xtra.co.nz ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:51:12 AM PST US From: "Leo J. Corbalis" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Feedback problem with the radio --> Europa-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" If you don't have feedback on the intercom function, you have an RF feedback problem. The shielded battery box says that 's what Lightspeed thinks too. Transistors are a bunch of diodes that just love to rectify your RF. Since you have a Europa, moving the antenna is not very attractive as suggestions go. Try placing some .01 capacitors around the system to short out the RF. If possible, in the battery box between the audio wires and the ground wire and between + and - on the box terminals. Another good spot is on the headset socket, do both if possible. As a test you could wrap a long strip of aluminum foil around the headset wires and ground it to the earphone socket with a short wire with alligator clips. Hope this helps. RF shielding is really a black art. Leo Corbalis > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Paul McAllister" > > To: > > Subject: Europa-List: Feedback problem with the radio > | > > | I have an odd problem with my GX60 when trying to transmit. I found it > > would start oscillating, it would start with an echo and then break into > > full audio feedback, similar to as what a PA system does when the > microphone > > is too close to the speaker. I fooled with the problem for the longest > time > > and I finally narrowed it down to my LightSpeed headsets. I called > > LightSpeed and sure enough they knew about the problem. They invited me to > > send the headsets back and they would fit a new shielded battery box. > They > > came back and they "sorta" worked, but unfortunately they would still do > it. > > | > > | A this point I resigned myself to using my Telex 3500's. These always > > seemed to work, but today they started to exhibit the same problem... now > I > > am in a bit of a quandary on how to trouble shoot this problem. I do not > > have an audio panel at this time, I am using the internal intercom in the > > GX60. > > | > > | Does anyone have any ideas where to head with this. > > | > > | Paul > > | > > | > > | > > | > > | > > | > > | > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:02:31 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Feedback problem with the radio --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" Yo Paul, Actually it's Ferg, but the error is easily made, not that it matters that much It is difficult to assess from here because different makers assign different terms to various functions. I will await your scouring the manual for any clues. Basically, I think your problem is acoustic feedback, but RF feedback may also be present. The latter is less likely with transistors than with tubes, so I think your earphones may be leaking excess volume to the region of the mike. VOX in a Stearman is a constant problem because of the large background volume of the engine in an open cockpit. Also, there is always 'noise' in an electrical/electronic circuit (called internal noise) due to ions and so forth jumping about but always worse in tubes than transistors. The squelch is installed to make the mike insensitive to this and that's the "threshold" for sensitivity. Noise below that doesn't get through. The other datum sets the level at which your voice triggers the audio. It gets sticky beyond that, but the Squelch knob on the front usually sets the level at which external noise shuts off the mike - but then perhaps I'm being too simple. Let's see what the manual says - probly makes an ass of my remarks. Ferg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Feedback problem with the radio | --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" | | Hi Fred, | | To answer your question my set up has a push to talk for transmitting. If | your theory is correct I should be able to improve the situation by reducing | the microphone gain. The GX60's internal intercom has the following | parameters that can be set: | | - RF Level | - Headphone level | - Side tone level | - Intercom level | - Intercom squelch | - Noise level | | I was hoping to set one that said "Microphone gain", but alas no. I will dig | out the manual tonight and see if any of the above settings might help. | | Cheers, Paul | | | ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Fergus Kyle" | To: | Subject: Re: Europa-List: Feedback problem with the radio | | | > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" | > | > Paul, | > It can sometimes be transmitted through tight clamping of | units | > in the system, but this does not sound like that symptom. If your headset | > earcups 'leak' then the acoustic feedback would be the cause. Tight | earcups | > tend to reduce that. | > Is your system operated as 'VOX' - voice-operated | transmission? | > That is, do you have the sound of your voice open the transmitter, or do | you | > press a transmitt button? If the former, the sound from nearby will | trigger | > the transmitter open as well as the intercom. VOX is operated by two datum | > voltages - a large one which triggers the transmission and a smaller one | > below which the transmitter shuts off. Both of these voltages is set by a | > pair of potentiometers usually somewhere moderately available to the | > avionics bod who installs/repairs same. The same may apply to the intercom | > unit. | > We'll keep an eye open for your solution when it comes. | > Cheers, Ferg | > ----- Original Message ----- | > From: "Paul McAllister" | > To: | > Subject: Europa-List: Feedback problem with the radio | > | > | > | --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" | > | > | | > | Hi All, | > | | > | | > | I have an odd problem with my GX60 when trying to transmit. I found it | > would start oscillating, it would start with an echo and then break into | > full audio feedback, similar to as what a PA system does when the | microphone | > is too close to the speaker. I fooled with the problem for the longest | time | > and I finally narrowed it down to my LightSpeed headsets. I called | > LightSpeed and sure enough they knew about the problem. They invited me to | > send the headsets back and they would fit a new shielded battery box. | They | > came back and they "sorta" worked, but unfortunately they would still do | it. | > | | > | A this point I resigned myself to using my Telex 3500's. These always | > seemed to work, but today they started to exhibit the same problem... now | I | > am in a bit of a quandary on how to trouble shoot this problem. I do not | > have an audio panel at this time, I am using the internal intercom in the | > GX60. | > | | > | Does anyone have any ideas where to head with this. | > | | > | Paul | > | | > | | > | | > | | > | | > | | > | | > | > | | | | | | ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:04:27 AM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: Re: Europa-List: Subaru engines --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson At 2004-06-14 09:53 +0100 Phil Brown wrote: >I've been told that in the long distant past there were europas >flying with Subaru's Phil - my records show that 11 Subaru-engined Europas are flying worldwide, and at least 3 of those now written-off also had Subaru engines. You can find a lot of info in the "flying aircraft" table on the Europa Club website, but to save you time (and Francis D the effort of cross-referencing the project numbers from the registration marks), the 8 still flying in UK are: project mark 12506 G-IGII 12522 G-OURO 12535 G-EESA 12540 G-SYCO 12703 G-BWUP 12747 G-RICS 12780 G-TERN 12967 G-CHEB The information is correct as far as I know, but changes may have occurred since last I heard from the people concerned. Hope this helps! regards Rowland PS: As a number of RV people were heard to say at the PFA Rally last year, why haven't the RV community got an organisation as efficient as the Europa Club? :-) (sorry, couldn't resist it!) -- | Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary - email for info! | Europa 435 G-ROWI (710 hours building) PFA #16532 | e-mail website ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:04:27 AM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: Re: Europa-List: FL13 spacer --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson At 2004-06-13 17:29 -0700 Andrew Sarangan wrote: >I still have the >FL23 spacer, and I am not sure where that goes Andrew - you need my part number to manual page cross-reference*! FL23 goes on the AN525-10R16 bolt which passes through the bottom end of FL16. In my printed monowheel manual, that is shown on page 28-16. However, in the PDF version of the manual, pages 28-16 and 28-17 have been swapped. You might think you could search the PDF for the part number, but FL23, like many others, is only called out in hand-written text on drawing pages (ie, embedded in a graphic), and so cannot be located by a text searches. * [ADV: on the Europa Club CD-ROM] regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary - email for info! | Europa 435 G-ROWI (710 hours building) PFA #16532 | e-mail website ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:53:26 PM PST US From: Paul Stewart Subject: Europa-List: brakes and stuff --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart Trying to cram everything into the tunnel including the main wheel and brake cylinder. Firstly the suggested route for the brake line - (along the top of the S/A forward of LGO8 and then top of the tunnel near throttle cables) - seems way too far for the brake line I have. Second I seem to remember a factory 'Tech talk' in relation to the brake caliper, but can't lay my hands on it can anyone remember which issue. Can anyone shed any light on this mystery. Regards Paul G-GIDY Engine off again now to sort out firewall ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:22 PM PST US From: n3eu@comcast.net Subject: Re: Europa-List: Feedback problem with the radio --> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net Paul McAllister wrote: > ... > I was hoping to set one that said "Microphone gain", but alas no. Forget the alas part, as seems (desirable) auto mic audio leveling is about standard on new boxes, with the chip to do the job about $1. Lowering mic gain could indirectly and incorrectly fix the real problem, and you won't be effectively using all the xmit watts you paid for. Reg, Fred F. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:22 PM PST US From: n3eu@comcast.net Subject: Re: Europa-List: Feedback problem with the radio --> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net Fergus Kyle wrote: > ...but RF feedback may also be present. The latter is less > likely with transistors than with tubes.... I agree it could be RF pickup and a 1st guess at that. But bipolar transistors can do pretty good job of "rectification" with 10W coming out of an antenna 6 feet away from whatever is picking it up. That's about 3+ volts of electromagnetic field at that distance, and unlike metal airplanes, the RF energy inside the fuselage of a plastic airplane is as strong as it is outside. Worse yet, you might agree Ferg, is that at VHF comm frequencies, there's the "near-field effect" within about 8 feet from the antenna, meaning whatever is picking it up need not be of a much of a tuned element to cause bad things. If able to move the antenna, it may not take much, as near field attenuates with the cube of the distance. No one has specifically mentioned that the mic audio wires - ground + hot - should be inside a shield which is grounded at the radio end. Paul, RF pickup can be determined by severely attenuating the output from the antenna, by several methods, if you'll repost the need to do so as last resort. Reg, Fred F. N3EU ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:33:13 PM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Europa-List: Weeping drain valves --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Hi All, I am having trouble with the spring loaded drain valve on the bottom of my Gascolator. It seems that the smallest amount of crud underneath the "O" ring causes it to drip and the only way I can clean it is to remove it, wash it out with alcohol and a tooth brush. Does any one have a recommendation of a better valve or a way of cleaning it without removal. Thanks, Paul ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 08:54:22 PM PST US From: "Craig Ellison" Subject: Europa-List: Dynon --> Europa-List message posted by: "Craig Ellison" All, I've been trying to decide what instruments to put in my panel and have narrowed it down some but still have some questions. Have any Europa builders that have installed the Dynon D-10 found it necessary to install the external magnetic sensor and if so what location did they use. Thanks in advance for any input. craig ellison A205 Wings,flying surfaces ready for paint, fuselage ready for paint except for firewall forward. Waiting for FF and engine. ----- Original Message ----- From: "SteveD" Subject: Europa-List: Photo Links > --> Europa-List message posted by: "SteveD" > > > I don't think Matt posted any pictures or links. Paul has some photos in the Gallery. > http://forum.okhuijsen.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album57&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php > > ( I got to get those URLs down in size) > > The Gallery has its own search engine, so when you're in the Gallery type "vents" in the search window and they'll come up. > > chat later, > Steved > > ---------------- > EuropaOwnersForum http://forum.okhuijsen.org , Europa builders, photo Gallery and more. > >