Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:54 AM - Re: Fuel Filler Pipe Moulding (JR (Bob) Gowing)
2. 04:01 AM - Re: Firewall Cutout before module bonding (R.C.Harrison)
3. 05:36 AM - Re: Firewall Cutout before module bonding (Paul McAllister)
4. 01:58 PM - Gusset Plates plywood. (EuropaForum)
5. 02:16 PM - europa club membership sec going offline tempo (Rowland Carson)
6. 02:43 PM - SV: Gusset Plates plywood. (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
7. 03:50 PM - Re: Firewall Cutout before module bonding (Tony Renshaw)
8. 04:34 PM - microair 760 query (s.vestuti)
9. 08:46 PM - Re: microair 760 query (RICHARD IDDON)
10. 09:29 PM - Re: Gusset Plates plywood. (N914RB)
11. 11:15 PM - Re: microair 760 query (Kingsley Hurst)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Fuel Filler Pipe Moulding |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "JR (Bob) Gowing" <gowingjr@acr.net.au>
To Dan Bish
and do not archive because I am mainly expressing my opinion on what the
factory says they don't know.
By spreading the area I meant making it bigger and progressively weaker to
dispell the stress. So don't make up a couple of straps of 3 plies of bid
and cut it out on the plastic and apply it. This will stiffen the fuselage
in small places with sharp edges which ought to be tapered.
Make a paper pattern the size of the smallest piece and draw it on your
plasic then make the succeeding layer say 2 inches or more wider and the
next layer that much wider again. Thus the stiffening will be progressively
weaker and closer to that of the fuselage shell itself.
I will be interested to hear more about this as I have yet to get to it.
J R (Bob) Gowing, UK Kit 327 in Oz and making flaps connection to LG Control
Lever.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Dan Bish" <danbish@norwalktucson.com>
Subject: [spam?] Re: Europa-List: Fuel Filler Pipe Moulding
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dan Bish" <danbish@norwalktucson.com>
>
> Bob,
>
> What do you mean by "spread the area"? Thanks,
>
> Dan
> A144
> Tucson, AZ
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "JR (Bob) Gowing" <gowingjr@acr.net.au>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Filler Pipe Moulding
>
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "JR (Bob) Gowing"
<gowingjr@acr.net.au>
> >
> > I understand that it is caused by temperature shrinkage difference so
you
> > need to spread the area a bit.
> > J R (Bob) Gowing, JK Kit 327 in Oz
> > do not archive
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "John Cliff" <mx@crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk>
> > To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Europa-List: Fuel Filler Pipe Moulding
> >
> >
> > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "John Cliff"
> > <mx@crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk>
> > >
> > > In the factory newsletter issue 25 a case was reported of an 'imprint'
> of
> > the
> > > moulded pipe appearing on the aircraft outer skin. It was suggested,
as
> a
> > > precaution, that several plies of BID be applied to the fuselage inner
> > skin, to
> > > prevent this from happening.
> > >
> > > Has anyone else (who has not made the suggested reinforcement) seen
this
> > > 'imprint' appear ?
> > >
> > > John Cliff
> > > #0259
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall Cutout before module bonding |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! Tony.
IMHO don't force the cockpit module to fit down precisely. Be sure the
"lower fuselage moulding" is adequately supported and suitably braced for
the width dimension to fit the cockpit module. Then have a dummy run and
mark out where the cockpit module will sit in a relaxed state. Remove it
then overturn it and have one person apply a redux bead to all its surfaces
that will contact the inside of the fuselage. Another person also applies a
thick redux bead to the fuselage ready to receive the cockpit module making
sure that there are gaps where the tufnol control bearings will be located
(you will have a "bad hair day" if when it has all cured you can't move the
controls!)
then carefully turn over the module and lower it into place allowing the
excess redux beads to squidge out from between the two surfaces.
I wouldn't apply any undue pressure anywhere other than to ensure there is
contact of the redux between all necessary surfaces. This is best observed
by shining a strong light underneath the fuselage which clearly shows where
there isn't redux contact. Trowel off all excess redux and use the excess to
trowel it into any gaps.
This way you won't have any outside filler to apply and fill dimples which
the application of screws or pop rivets cause. It's obvious that a little
more redux will be used but at least it has structural strength where the
addition of filler adds only the weight and can flake off later .
You shouldn't get any cockpit module distortion which would be likely to
make the controls tight.
Also make sure that the aileron control arms clear the fuselage bottom for
their full travel range.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Tony Renshaw" <tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au>
Subject: Europa-List: Firewall Cutout before module bonding
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw
<tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au>
>
> Gidday,
> I am considering cutting out the firewall so that I can see what is doing
> on when I drop my module in for the last time, onto the blue glue. When I
> push down on the module it at the firewall end, it sits lower, but my
cross
> bracing pulls on the attachments on the head rest. Also, the whole seat
pan
> moves up and down as I load and unload the front of the module, with
weight
> bearing down. So, I reckon I have done about the best job of stabilising
my
> module for my flight controls, and fear that this force to make the module
> sit down might in fact put a longitudinal axis banana into my module and
> this might be felt in the control circuit. So, I intend on leaving it
> alone, and I suppose the gaps between module and fuse can be addressed in
> several ways. I can use screws, to pull the fuse up to meet the module but
> I hesitate because it seems to me that you create a perforated line of
> weakness in the fuse skin at key locations. I don't really like the
> dimpling potential, so I reckon I am more inclined to either fill the 2-3
> mm gap in places with either redux or maybe a 2-3-4 ply bid layup in the
> lower areas before bonding. This would require a whole lot of accuracy to
> work out where 2,3, or 4 plies were required, so I reckon the answer is
the
> redux. I think at worst I could add maybe 1/2 kg of redux. Big deal I say,
> because I'd prefer to lose it off my middle, which could spare 1/2 kg. The
> addition of redux would be offset by the addition of filler on the outside
> of the fuse if I pull it into place. So, less work but nominally more
> weight I hope. Oh, someone mentioned cutting off the footwell floor
> sections of the module and applying bid patches to replace them later. Is
> this still the recommended way to get it in, for a single handed, or maybe
> 1 helper installation?? I note when pushing down on the rudder floor
> vertical flange that the force distorts the side of the module, so I am
> going to stabilise the module at this lower end to preserve my gear mount
> attachment dims. If anyone has any suggestions at this stage, with module
> insertion impending, I'd really like to hear from you.
>
> Reg
> Tony Renshaw
> Sydney Australia
>
> Classic 236 B.B. Taildragger
> Tail, Wings, Ailerons, Flaps Complete and Connected
> Lower Fuse in Jig, Tail Torque Tube installed
> Mass Balance assembly installed and deflections sorted
> Roof Panel between doors completed.
> Photos at:
>
http://forum.okhuijsen.org/modules.php?set_albumName=TonyR&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php&PHPSESSID=902b69917a45f8b18ac84fe3f85a704b
> Intended Engine: 912S CS prop (model undecided)
> Instrumentation: Undecided
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall Cutout before module bonding |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Tony,
If I was to do it again I would not use screws, rivets or anything
mechanical to pull it together. I would have supported the bottom and
lowered in the module and pressed it home with weighted shot bags. I had a
big bunch of these that Jenny had stitched up. If you want to make some up
quickly you can buy # 4s hot gun pellets and put them in zip loc bags.
I would at least experiment with this idea and if you can't get good gap
closure then I would go with plan A. For applying the Redux get your self
some empty silicone gun tubes. I had tried icing bags, toweling it in and
various other methods and I would have to say it works 10 times better than
anything else.
Good luck, Paul
Message 4
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| Subject: | Gusset Plates plywood. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaForum <Post2Forum@comcast.net>
I have my gusset plate plywood installed, an I'm moments from putting
in the tie bar. The update to the manual says to install PLY 12. Is
that a part # that I didn't get with my kit or are they saying to
install 12 ply plywood? I installed 5/8, 5 ply plywood. ( I found "part
# PLY 6" in the new manual )
It's always something : )
Steved.
Message 5
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| Subject: | europa club membership sec going offline tempo |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
Folks - Wilma & I are taking a week's holiday from tomorrow (Monday),
so I won't be answering e-mails again until early July. Rest assured,
everything arriving will get dealt with eventually, even if it takes
me a while to dig it out from the spam!
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary - email for info!
| Europa 435 G-ROWI (710 hours building) PFA #16532
| e-mail <memsec@europaclub.org.uk> website <www.europaclub.org.uk>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Gusset Plates plywood. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>
Steve,
PLY 12 is a piece of good quality plywood, 14 inches long, 1 inch wide,
11/16 inch (17,5 mm) thick. I found mine only after I needed it - I used a
piece of marine plywood cut to size and filed to thickness ( = outer
diameter of the tie bar).
Regards,
Svein K. Johnsen
A225 - XS Trigear - now in Norway
Installing rudder - doors next.
-----Opprinnelig melding-----
Fra: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]P vegne av EuropaForum
Sendt: 27. juni 2004 22:55
Til: europa-list@matronics.com
Emne: Europa-List: Gusset Plates plywood.
--> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaForum <Post2Forum@comcast.net>
I have my gusset plate plywood installed, an I'm moments from putting
in the tie bar. The update to the manual says to install PLY 12. Is
that a part # that I didn't get with my kit or are they saying to
install 12 ply plywood? I installed 5/8, 5 ply plywood. ( I found "part
# PLY 6" in the new manual )
It's always something : )
Steved.
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Firewall Cutout before module bonding |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au>
Empty Silicone gun tubes.....................what a great idea!!!!
Ok, bit of questing required now, but I should be able to overcome this
one. Thanks Paul, yet again a saint, or should I say "wise man". My cockpit
module doesn't seem to sit as flat as it might because there is a several
ply buildup on the flange that attaches the vertical front face of the
thigh support to the floor. The reason for this is that my maingear attach
points required some thickening there. If I now weight down the module, I
seem to have a see saw effect, and whilst my flight controls sit all on one
side of the fulcrum, I don't want to force the issue. I think I will resign
myself to a little extra redux, and a diet post build.
Firewall cutouts. I dont see any reason why I can't take out the front of
the tunnel, as it will allow me to ensure good adhesion between module and
firewall, and between module and floor. Any couter arguments on that one???
I reckon I can even install the gear mount whilst the module is being glued
down, in pre drilled holes through the firewall, so that the spacing
remains exact and things don't tighten or loosen whilst gluing. What I mean
by tighten or loosen, is the gap between the 2 holes at the bottom where
the bottom of the module could flare out under too much weight etc.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
At 10:33 PM 6/27/2004, you wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
>
>Tony,
>
>If I was to do it again I would not use screws, rivets or anything
>mechanical to pull it together. I would have supported the bottom and
>lowered in the module and pressed it home with weighted shot bags. I had a
>big bunch of these that Jenny had stitched up. If you want to make some up
>quickly you can buy # 4s hot gun pellets and put them in zip loc bags.
>
>I would at least experiment with this idea and if you can't get good gap
>closure then I would go with plan A. For applying the Redux get your self
>some empty silicone gun tubes. I had tried icing bags, toweling it in and
>various other methods and I would have to say it works 10 times better than
>anything else.
>
>Good luck, Paul
>
>
Message 8
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| Subject: | microair 760 query |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "s.vestuti" <s.vestuti@btinternet.com>
hello all ,
has anybody used the built in intercom available on the microair
760 , or do
you opt for an external intercom ? it seems there is no separate / independant
volume control
for intercom / radio . any feedback appreciated .
cheers steve # 573
Message 9
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| Subject: | microair 760 query |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "RICHARD IDDON" <riddon@btinternet.com>
Steve,
I am using the built in intercom on my Microair but it does seem to
generate a good deal of background noise whilst it is switched on and it
is a bit inconvenient switching it on and off every time you need to
talk to ATC. I am thinking of buying a voice activated intercom to make
things a bit more peaceful. The volume control on my headsets seems to
adjust the intercom volume OK.
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of s.vestuti
Subject: Europa-List: microair 760 query
--> Europa-List message posted by: "s.vestuti"
<s.vestuti@btinternet.com>
hello all ,
has anybody used the built in intercom available on the
microair 760 , or do
you opt for an external intercom ? it seems there is no separate /
independant volume control
for intercom / radio . any feedback appreciated .
cheers steve # 573
==
==
==
==
on
==
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Gusset Plates plywood. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "N914RB" <N914RB@earthlink.net>
Steve,
FWIW, I checked the piece in my kit called "Ply 12" and it's 5 plys of
undecernable wood, 1" X 5/8" X 14" so you might be on the right track
afterall.
Dan
A144
Tucson
----- Original Message -----
From: "EuropaForum" <Post2Forum@comcast.net>
Subject: Europa-List: Gusset Plates plywood.
> --> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaForum <Post2Forum@comcast.net>
>
> I have my gusset plate plywood installed, an I'm moments from putting
> in the tie bar. The update to the manual says to install PLY 12. Is
> that a part # that I didn't get with my kit or are they saying to
> install 12 ply plywood? I installed 5/8, 5 ply plywood. ( I found "part
> # PLY 6" in the new manual )
>
> It's always something : )
>
> Steved.
>
>
Message 11
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| Subject: | microair 760 query |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <hurstkr@growzone.com.au>
Steve wrote:
has anybody used the built in intercom available on the microair 760 ,
or do
you opt for an external intercom ? it seems there is no separate /
independant volume control
for intercom / radio . any feedback appreciated .
cheers steve # 573
and
Richard wrote:
I am using the built in intercom on my Microair but it does seem to
generate a good deal of background noise whilst it is switched on and it
is a bit inconvenient switching it on and off every time you need to
talk to ATC. I am thinking of buying a voice activated intercom to make
things a bit more peaceful. The volume control on my headsets seems to
adjust the intercom volume OK.
Gentlemen,
I understand the XCOM intercom may be the answer to your problems with
the microair. I will pass on your postings to a person who will be able
to give you very reliable advice in this regard. In the meantime, you
may like to check out the following link to the XCOM intercom.
http://www.mcp.com.au/xcom760/intercom/intercom.html
and no, I'm not on any commission.
Regards
Kingsley Hurst
Mono Classic 281 in Oz.
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