Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 04:54 AM - Life goes on with good advice taken heed..... (R.C.Harrison)
2. 07:50 AM - Redux source (Mike)
3. 07:52 AM - Re: Some good news, anyone? (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
4. 07:59 AM - Re: Re: US office & Oshkosh Plans (EuropaXSA276@aol.com)
5. 08:06 AM - Re: Europa feedback (Jos Okhuijsen)
6. 09:20 AM - Re: Europa feedback (Gerry Holland)
7. 09:33 AM - Re: Redux source (Gerry Holland)
8. 09:48 AM - Re: Redux source (Simon Smith)
9. 10:33 AM - Re: Europa feedback (nigel charles)
10. 11:24 AM - Re: Re: US office & Oshkosh Plans (Jeremy Davey)
11. 11:56 AM - Re: Re: US office & Oshkosh Plans (Fergus Kyle)
12. 12:13 PM - Re: Re: US office & Oshkosh Plans (EuropaForum)
13. 12:53 PM - Re: Re: US office & Oshkosh Plans (Mike Parkin)
14. 12:53 PM - Re: Re: US office & Oshkosh Plans (Gerry Holland)
15. 01:02 PM - Re: Re: US office & Oshkosh Plans (Mike Parkin)
16. 01:28 PM - Re: Re: US office & Oshkosh Plans (josok)
17. 02:13 PM - Re: Some good news, anyone? (Joe Proctor)
18. 02:23 PM - Re: Re: US office & Oshkosh Plans (Andrew Sarangan)
19. 02:23 PM - The Club, the Factory and the PFA rally (DaveBuzz@aol.com)
20. 02:48 PM - Re: Some good news, anyone? (Carl & Dot)
21. 03:07 PM - Re: Some good news, anyone? (Gerry Holland)
22. 03:33 PM - Re: Re: US office & Oshkosh Plans (Jeremy Davey)
23. 03:39 PM - current status..... (R.C.Harrison)
24. 04:15 PM - Re: Some good news, anyone? (James Nelson)
25. 04:53 PM - Re: US office & Oshkosh Plans (SteveD)
26. 05:18 PM - Re: The Club, the Factory and the PFA rally (Andrew Sarangan)
27. 06:14 PM - Re: Engine choices (KARL HEINDL)
28. 09:52 PM - Re: NSI/subaru (Bob Jacobsen)
29. 11:01 PM - Re: Engine choices (nigel charles)
30. 11:07 PM - Re: NSI/subaru (nigel charles)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Life goes on with good advice taken heed..... |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! All
Whilst surrounded by doom and gloom ......and in the spirit of Europa group preservation
!
Water drain mod. main and reserve tank connectors
IMHO anyone not constrained by the UK authoritative UK anti deviation modification
system should seriously consider these few words of advice.
As for the PFA I have written to them with some of my observations anyway.
Firstly I am well aware that there shouldn't be any lint fibres or DOG HAIRS in
your tanks but if there should happen to be only a minimal amount.........!
I need to advise you all to closely examine the actual connectors, preferably prior
to fittment of the finger strainer gauze. Take a look down the inside diameter
where the gauze is to be reduxed in place and observe the diameter restriction
of the main exit hole by about 50% of its cross sectional area then imagine
what's left when you slide the gauze back in and redux it into place!
All this is easy to do prior to assembly and before insertion into the tank outlets
with the tank installed. However when installed try getting the connector
assembly out without damaging it !
My experience has been that the gauze, whilst only being about 2mm gauge, it still
restrains the tiny fibres and in my case dog hairs and dangles them in a small
ball close to the actual exit so that they in turn start filtering out any
small particles until the ball slams into the exit hole and bingo the "donkey"
stops.
Then when you switch to reserve (which I predicted some time ago) since the reserve
side is on the filler side and if you have run with the reserve switched
for any period , as is required in the annual test, you stand a good chance it
is in the same condition ......as it was in my case .....ie:- "the donkey" won't
restart except in a spluttering manner !
If you have this experience then plan for it to be at not less than 2,000ft with
two airfields like RAF Alconbury on one side and RAF Wyton on the other less
than 5 miles apart!
As well as an annual removal of the finger strainers and a tank flush out I recommend
two things :-
a) A serious questioning of the necessity of the gauze at all? If you can be sure
there will never be any flakes of paint or LEAVES present as if you have a
permant filler gauze like on most tractors !
b) Dismantle the gauze from the connectors and with a small "burr" tool cut some
of the restricting metal away to provide an unrestricted exit to the main fuel
flow pipe.Then consider item a) above before replacing the gauze.
c) Consider the now required new length and direction of the water pick up pipe
if your aircraft is a trike since any water will now collect to the front corner
of the tank when the a/c is parked tail up.
d) Seriously consider the embodyment of an inspection and access hole to the tank
between the headrest areas as in the fitment of an Avalec stick type fuel depth
gauge. This cover is large enough to get your hand through to mop out the
tank bottom on either side of the saddle.
Anyone with queries don't hesitate to discuss with me further and obtain authorisation
from your controlling authority prior to effecting the changes.
Don't commit to flying a World War II Veteran Spitfire Pilot who survived the Battle
of Britain and 3 or 4 heart attacks to a celebration event when this is
likely to happen if you want him to survive further !
Embarrassed or what !
regards
Bob Harrison. G-PTAG
Message 2
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike" <mp.gamble@virgin.net>
I'm having trouble finding redux.
Does anyone know of a source in the southern uk.(or,failing that, anywhere in uk
Thanks
Mike Gamble
XS440
Ready to stick the top on.(I think)
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Some good news, anyone? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
In a message dated 7/10/2004 11:44:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time, VE3LVO@rac.ca
writes:
> John,
> What engine are you putting on?
> Ferg
Hi Ferg,
Until this most recent news from Europa I had pretty much decided on the
912S/Airmaster combo. In fact, I've asked John Hurst to put a 912S FWF kit on
order for me, but he tells me he can't confirm a delivery date from the UK. If
Europa isn't able to deliver a FWF kit by about mid October (or at the very least
the cowls) I'll have to seriously consider the Jabiru 3300 or the Subaru EA81
as options. I've already talked to reps from both alternatives and I can go
either way fairly easily, although the Subaru looks like a lot more work since
I'd have to fabricate the engine mounts, exhaust system, etc.
Susan and I are about to depart on our honeymoon on or about July 22nd and
we'll be gone about a month. This should give Europa some time to sort out what
they are going to do in regard to supporting those of us who haven't completed
our projects. When I return I anticipate jumping on the fitting of the
doors, then finish and paint (with renewed vigor), but I'm still about 3-4 months
away from needing an engine. Hopefully, Europa's troubles will all get sorted
out and they will recover. It's hard to imagine a kit as nice as the Europa
going by the wayside. However, I'm not willing to wait 6 months or longer to get
a FWF package when other viable alternatives are out there. Hopefully, by the
time we return from our western odyssey we'll have some specifics from Europa.
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: RE: US office & Oshkosh Plans |
--> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaXSA276@aol.com
Yes, very bad news. And here I am without doors, glass or firewall forward
stuff. I wrote Neville last week about some cradle information and he responded
the same day. I wrote Keith about the backordered parts and he DID NOT
respond. Grrrrrrr!
A special thank you should go to John and crew for the wonderful support and
dedication shown over the years. We know that this situation was completely
out of your control.
Doesn't look good right now but I truly think someone will take the company
over. The plane is just too good of a product and much too popular to let die.
This may slow our building down a bit but I'm positive end the end we will
all have completed airplanes.
Perhaps in the interim that the Europa club can establish direct links to
the suppliers to the company in order to help us complete our projects.
Naturally this means that you will of had to buy the parts twice, but depending
on
what the item is that may not be that big of a deal.
Brian S
A276 Tri Gear. Texas
http://forum.okhuijsen.org/modules.php?set_albumName=BrianS&op=modload&name=ga
llery&file=index&include=view_album.php
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Europa feedback |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Jos Okhuijsen <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
Hi Gerry and all,
Thanks for the effort of keeping us informed.
> The news including a correspondence from Keith Wilson was not good but at
> the same time was not conclusive either. It is still early days in the
Is it not possible to publish that correspondence? Any more information?
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen,
kit #600, working on the cockpit module, waiting for the fuel drain mod,
the fuel content meter mod, the tie down mod, smaller bits and pieces and
wondering if in due time a firewall forward kit will be available.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Europa feedback |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
Jos hi!
>> The news including a correspondence from Keith Wilson was not good but at
>> the same time was not conclusive either.
>
> Is it not possible to publish that correspondence? Any more information?
The Europa Club Chairman had the correspondence personally, well via e-mail
and without legal prejudice to Keith Wilson. Dave Bossomworth (Chairman) may
well comment when the PFA Rally finishes this afternoon in UK.
It looks like we have a few more days to go before more light is thrown on
true state of things.
Regards
Gerry
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Redux source |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
Mike Hi!
> I'm having trouble finding redux.
> Does anyone know of a source in the southern uk.(or,failing that, anywhere in
Go to: http://www.silmid.co.uk or call 0845 130 1110.
They are based near Birmingham and are Distributors for many Aerospace
Adhesives and Sealants.
Regards
Gerry
Europa 384 G-FIZY
Trigear with Rotax 912 and Arplast CS Prop.
Engine and Prop getting near to starting.
Painting completed. Just vinyl design scheme to be added.
Completing Wiring to Panel.
Includes Dynon EFIS, KMD 150, Icom A-200 and SL70 Transponder. AoA Fitted.
Shoulder Width Mod completed.
http://www.g-fizy.com
+44 7808 402404
gnholland@onetel.com
Message 8
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Simon Smith" <jodel@nildram.co.uk>
Araldite 420 (aka redux) is available from Aeropia Ltd in Crawley. Phone
+44 1293 459 542.
At the end of April I was quoted GBP 55.10 +vat and delivery (total 85.31)
for the 1.4kg kit.
Cheers
Simon
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike
Subject: Europa-List: Redux source
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike" <mp.gamble@virgin.net>
I'm having trouble finding redux.
Does anyone know of a source in the southern uk.(or,failing that, anywhere
in uk Thanks Mike Gamble XS440 Ready to stick the top on.(I think)
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Europa feedback |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" <nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
> The news including a correspondence from Keith Wilson was not good but at
> the same time was not conclusive either. It is still early days in the
>>Is it not possible to publish that correspondence? Any more information?<<
There is a statement being issued from the Europa Club Committee very
shortly. It was formulated today (Sunday) at midday during the PFA Rally and
has been published at the noticeboard at the Rally. David Bosomworth will be
getting it onto the forum as soon as he able to get to his computer. This
will include a copy of the e-mail sent to him by Keith Wilson.
Regards
Nigel Charles
Message 10
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| Subject: | RE: US office & Oshkosh Plans |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <europaflyer_3@msn.com>
"Perhaps in the interim that the Europa club can establish direct links to
the suppliers to the company in order to help us complete our projects."
Brian,
A fair question! I just want to make a couple of comments. DaveBuzz is going
to put the Club statement produced today out on the Forum at his first
opportunity. And at this stage where things are very fluid, nothing has been
ruled out by the Club - the important thing is that you be a member. I would
encourage everyone out there who is not a member to join - the Club can't
(shouldn=92t!!) help you if you're not a member, and we need to act together
as one body to ensure the best for the Europa.
(One small admin item which I know worries some of our American cousins who
have not had experience of these things: overseas members can use credit
cards to avoid the hassle of currency exchange, 15 pounds works out at about
25 bucks at the moment.)
http://www.europaclub.org.uk/ for more details.
Cheers,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Tail done
Standard XS wings awaiting mods and closing
CM ready for installation in fuse (with airbrakes fittings), but holding off
while I do a load of small jobs first
1100 build hours to date
Intended fit:
Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop
Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: RE: US office & Oshkosh Plans |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy Davey" <europaflyer_3@msn.com>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: RE: US office & Oshkosh Plans
| --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <europaflyer_3@msn.com>
|
| "Perhaps in the interim that the Europa club can establish direct links to
| the suppliers to the company in order to help us complete our projects."
|
| Brian,
|
| A fair question! I just want to make a couple of comments. DaveBuzz is
going
| to put the Club statement produced today out on the Forum at his first
| opportunity. And at this stage where things are very fluid, nothing has
been
| ruled out by the Club - the important thing is that you be a member. I
would
| encourage everyone out there who is not a member to join - the Club can't
| (shouldn=92t!!) help you if you're not a member, and we need to act
together
| as one body to ensure the best for the Europa.
|
| (One small admin item which I know worries some of our American cousins
who
| have not had experience of these things: overseas members can use credit
| cards to avoid the hassle of currency exchange, 15 pounds works out at
about
| 25 bucks at the moment.)
|
| http://www.europaclub.org.uk/ for more details.
|
| Cheers,
| Jeremy
Cheers,
I heartily agree with the sentiments expressed above. Membership in the
club predates later alternatives which evince no solidarity in support of
the common health of us builders. I have found it more productive than any
other source but only wish it had the extensive facilities of websites which
followed - and which are helpful as well.
It was that difference to which I alluded when a second site appeared.
The "English" is no more applicable to the Europa Club than the "U.S." is to
the Forum because each is universal in substance. At the speed of light, who
cares where the site is? Thus, your technical service source might be in
Bombay!
Ferg
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: RE: US office & Oshkosh Plans |
--> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaForum <Post2Forum@comcast.net>
> "Perhaps in the interim that the Europa club can establish direct
> links to the suppliers to the company in order to help us complete our
> projects."
>
> Brian,
Brian, What ever information I get will be posted on the Europa Forum
( http://forum.okhuijsen.org/ )
> The important thing is that you be a member. I would encourage
> everyone out there who is not a member to join - the Club can't
> (shouldn't!!) help you if you're not a member, and we need to act
> together as one body to ensure the best for the Europa
You forgot "Club" at the end of your sentence.
"Shouldn't", I can't believe you guys - what a bunch self serving,
opportunistic, crap. Instead of working together to get through this,
until someone buys the company, "let's scare everyone into sending in
their 25 bucks" . Brilliant!.
The basic translation of your email is:
We intend to control access to suppliers, vendors, and information.
Pay-up or you can't finish your project.
The lot of you should be ashamed of yourselves .....
All the help we can give for free!
http://forum.okhuijsen.org/
Your brother in aviation,
Steven Dunsmuir
A217
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: RE: US office & Oshkosh Plans |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" <mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com>
Okay Ferg,
Now I totally understood what Jeremy was saying.
However, having read your missive several times and not having my Oxford
Concise English Dictionary to hand, I cannot make 'head nor tail' of what
you are trying to say. For those non classical english scholars among us,
could you re-transmit in understandable english prose.
regards,
MP (dum or dumma)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: US office & Oshkosh Plans
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Jeremy Davey" <europaflyer_3@msn.com>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: RE: US office & Oshkosh Plans
>
>
<europaflyer_3@msn.com>
to
> going
> been
> would
can't
> together
> who
> about
>
> Cheers,
> I heartily agree with the sentiments expressed above. Membership in
the
> club predates later alternatives which evince no solidarity in support of
> the common health of us builders. I have found it more productive than any
> other source but only wish it had the extensive facilities of websites
which
> followed - and which are helpful as well.
> It was that difference to which I alluded when a second site appeared.
> The "English" is no more applicable to the Europa Club than the "U.S." is
to
> the Forum because each is universal in substance. At the speed of light,
who
> cares where the site is? Thus, your technical service source might be in
> Bombay!
> Ferg
>
>
> on
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: RE: US office & Oshkosh Plans |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
Steve Hi!
>
> "Shouldn't", I can't believe you guys - what a bunch self serving,
> opportunistic, crap. Instead of working together to get through this,
> until someone buys the company, "let's scare everyone into sending in
> their 25 bucks" . Brilliant!.
> The basic translation of your email is:
> We intend to control access to suppliers, vendors, and information.
> Pay-up or you can't finish your project.
> The lot of you should be ashamed of yourselves .....
As I understood things the Europa Club with a membership of approximately
600 was suggested as a point of contact and to provide a focus of solidarity
when trying to work with Suppliers and Vendors whist the future of Europa
manufacture and service was still uncertain. That was for all including
those Europa's flying, near to flying and especially others with incomplete
kits. The idea was to increase the number of Members to represent as many as
possible of those affected, all of us at some maybe. I think with respect
that gaining $25.00 for new members is a nonsense as too is control of
access to Vendors and others as exclusive to Club. In the interests of even
handedness I can see why you feel strongly on this as the word 'shouldn't'
was probably a little blunt at this early stage of the 'Europa problem'.
Can we all relax a little. My concerns are for those who have no Kit or only
a partial kit and feel pretty low at the moment with nothing other than a
significant loss of money to show regarding their Europa.
Regards
Gerry
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: RE: US office & Oshkosh Plans |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" <mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com>
Ooh Nice.....! That unjustified outburst will certainly set the
international co-operation off to a good start.
regards,
Mike.
----- Original Message -----
From: "EuropaForum" <Post2Forum@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: US office & Oshkosh Plans
> --> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaForum <Post2Forum@comcast.net>
>
> > "Perhaps in the interim that the Europa club can establish direct
> > links to the suppliers to the company in order to help us complete our
> > projects."
> >
> > Brian,
>
> Brian, What ever information I get will be posted on the Europa Forum
> ( http://forum.okhuijsen.org/ )
>
> > The important thing is that you be a member. I would encourage
> > everyone out there who is not a member to join - the Club can't
> > (shouldn't!!) help you if you're not a member, and we need to act
> > together as one body to ensure the best for the Europa
> You forgot "Club" at the end of your sentence.
>
> "Shouldn't", I can't believe you guys - what a bunch self serving,
> opportunistic, crap. Instead of working together to get through this,
> until someone buys the company, "let's scare everyone into sending in
> their 25 bucks" . Brilliant!.
> The basic translation of your email is:
> We intend to control access to suppliers, vendors, and information.
> Pay-up or you can't finish your project.
> The lot of you should be ashamed of yourselves .....
>
> All the help we can give for free!
> http://forum.okhuijsen.org/
>
> Your brother in aviation,
> Steven Dunsmuir
> A217
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: RE: US office & Oshkosh Plans |
2.6 REPLY_TO_EMPTY Reply-To: is empty
--> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
There is certailnly a point in having the buying power of a lot of people cenralised.
Probably none of the subcontracters is very much interested in making one
part for one builder. But if we can present a list of what builders need or
wll need, things could change.I hope that somebody in the club, or outsider,
will be so unselfish as to take the trouble of compiling such a demand list for
the subcontracted parts. But of course, it is everybodies free choice to try
to source for himself. For that reason it would be most helpfull to have the
subcontractor data somewhere available. For the "standard" parts also however
such a list would be great.
Idea:
Rowland has put a lot of parts in a database. It should be fairly simple to add
one or more possible suppliers to that list and put it on the net. Preferrably
on a public club page. I guess there are more people like SteveD who don't
like forced on memeberships. I personally also like to be able to join and or
pay without obligation, for something i like.
[quote:b520a56179="gnholland at onetel.com"]Steve Hi!
> "Shouldn't", I can't believe you guys - what a bunch self serving,
> opportunistic, crap. Instead of working together to get through this,
> until someone buys the company, "let's scare everyone into sending in
> their 25 bucks" . Brilliant!.
> The basic translation of your email is:
> We intend to control access to suppliers, vendors, and information.
> Pay-up or you can't finish your project.
> The lot of you should be ashamed of yourselves .....
As I understood things the Europa Club with a membership of approximately
600 was suggested as a point of contact and to provide a focus of solidarity
when trying to work with Suppliers and Vendors whist the future of Europa
manufacture and service was still uncertain. That was for all including
those Europa's flying, near to flying and especially others with incomplete
kits. The idea was to increase the number of Members to represent as many as
possible of those affected, all of us at some maybe. I think with respect
that gaining $25.00 for new members is a nonsense as too is control of
access to Vendors and others as exclusive to Club. In the interests of even
handedness I can see why you feel strongly on this as the word 'shouldn't'
was probably a little blunt at this early stage of the 'Europa problem'.
Can we all relax a little. My concerns are for those who have no Kit or only
a partial kit and feel pretty low at the moment with nothing other than a
significant loss of money to show regarding their Europa.
Regards
Gerry[/quote:b520a56179]
Jos Okhuijsen, kit #600
----------------
Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://forum.okhuijsen.org/
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Some good news, anyone? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Joe Proctor" <pjoe2@qwest.net>
>> > John,
> >
----- Original Message -----
From: <TELEDYNMCS@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Some good news, anyone?
What engine are you putting on?
I'll have to seriously consider the Jabiru 3300 or the Subaru EA81
> as options. I've already talked to reps from both alternatives and I can
go
> either way fairly easily, although the Subaru looks like a lot more work
since
> I'd have to fabricate the engine mounts, exhaust system, etc.
After attending Arlington yesterday and talking with a rep. from NSI you may
want to reconsider your assumption about the Subaru being more difficult.
Their firewall forward package is so complete for $15,000 that I am
seriously considering this alternative to the Rotax in light of the
developments in England. They have worked out the bugs in their PSRU by
completely changing the unit out with a redesigned model. Exhaust, wiring,
muffler, engine mount, cowling, variable speed prop two or three blade
spinner, even a firewall blanket are all included, all this with a three
year warranty. As I understand it Rotax does not offer more that a one year
warranty.Comments anyone?
Regards,
Joe Proctor
Milwaukie, OR
A272
,
>
> John Lawton
> Dunlap, TN
> A-245
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: RE: US office & Oshkosh Plans |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Andrew Sarangan <andrew_europa@yahoo.com>
Steve, I understand the reasons for your sentiments,
but the I don't think the club is trying to scare
people into joining. I am not even a member, but I do
plan on joining. If there is interest in forming
another club to support US builders, I would join that
too. There is power in numbers. If the company
disappears (which I hope is not going to be the case),
having a large organization will give us the strength
to negotiate with suppliers and get the parts we need.
I doubt the suppliers will entertain requests for
parts if each builder called them up one by one. It is
not like someone is getting rich by having a large
membership base, so there is no profit motive to
promoting the club. $25 is a still small price to pay
to have someone speak on our behalf to the Europa
management and the suppliers.
--- EuropaForum <Post2Forum@comcast.net> wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaForum
> <Post2Forum@comcast.net>
>
> > "Perhaps in the interim that the Europa club can
> establish direct
> > links to the suppliers to the company in order to
> help us complete our
> > projects."
> >
> > Brian,
>
> Brian, What ever information I get will be posted on
> the Europa Forum
> ( http://forum.okhuijsen.org/ )
>
> > The important thing is that you be a member. I
> would encourage
> > everyone out there who is not a member to join -
> the Club can't
> > (shouldn't!!) help you if you're not a member, and
> we need to act
> > together as one body to ensure the best for the
> Europa
> You forgot "Club" at the end of your sentence.
>
> "Shouldn't", I can't believe you guys - what a
> bunch self serving,
> opportunistic, crap. Instead of working together to
> get through this,
> until someone buys the company, "let's scare
> everyone into sending in
> their 25 bucks" . Brilliant!.
> The basic translation of your email is:
> We intend to control access to suppliers, vendors,
> and information.
> Pay-up or you can't finish your project.
> The lot of you should be ashamed of yourselves .....
>
> All the help we can give for free!
> http://forum.okhuijsen.org/
>
> Your brother in aviation,
> Steven Dunsmuir
> A217
>
>
>
> Contributions
> any other
> Forums.
>
> http://www.matronics.com/chat
>
> http://www.matronics.com/subscription
> http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm
> http://www.matronics.com/archives
> http://www.matronics.com/photoshare
> http://www.matronics.com/emaillists
>
>
>
>
>
>
=====
Andrew Sarangan
http://www.geocities.com/asarangan
__________________________________
http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail
Message 19
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| Subject: | The Club, the Factory and the PFA rally |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DaveBuzz@aol.com
Hello All on the list,
Ok, Dave Bosomworth, (still..) Europa Club Chairman here - Just got back from
the PFA rally, Kemble, UK, kissed wife, eaten, kicked dog, sat down and just read
through the emails.
WHOOOOAAH everyone........
First a bit of backgound:
The Europa Club was set up 10 years ago with the primary aim of supporting its
Members through promoting the building, owning and operating of the Europa type.
The Club expanded as Europa owners worldwide joined, and obviously liked what
they got.
1 Let me get one think straight: Membership is voluntary - if you personally feel
that there is more chance of support and more 'voice' as a group, join the
Club. For that support, those Members who volunteered to manage the Club, the
Committee, will try there damndest to help you.
2 If you had not been too bothered about joining the Club before, but recent events
have made you re-consider, that is your decision - and the committee working
for you are grateful-see 1.
3 If you do not wish to join at all, for whatever reasons, and obviously do not
have much time for what the Club is trying to do because you see it as 'only
working for its Members', then at least consider these two points: One: I can
guarantee that everything you think of has already been considered by the Club
committee - Two: The Europa is a UK design, product and business: Although I,
and others on the Committee before, have offered, asked and pleaded for more
interaction with builders outside the UK, there has been a small number of Europans
who have actively knocked our efforts back. Hey, its a free world, a bit
of common sense would indicate that, perhaps, a UK centred Club could maybe provide
more assistance with a UK based product. That is a fact I offer in good
faith.
4 And just to make one thing clear, the new forum was offered to the Club by SteveD,
but turned down solely because the present Committee were too busy to support
it, and the Matronics list works. Steve has done a great job for those Europa
operators with email/internet: What about those who do not have access to
a pc?
Right, for all on the list, Members and non Members alike, this is basically what
went on over the weekend:-
On friday I found an email direct to me from Keith Wilson just before I left home
for the rally. As I had previously promised the list that any new info the
Club received would be given at the AGM, thats what I did - cos I'm like that.
On saturday evening the Club held its AGM. Keith Wilson had been invited several
times, but had not responded and did not attend, therefore I read out the email,
which I reproduce here:
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,
WITHOUT PREJUDICE
Good afternoon Dave
I am sure you are aware that we have been striving to re-structure the Europa organisation
over the last few months. Negotiations have been ongoing with a number
of interested parties and we are striving to reach a satisfactory conclusion
with one group prepared to invest a significant sum into the business. This
should ensure the long term financial security of Europa for both our builders
and potential customers alike, as well as allowing us to complete our current
development plans.
Despite everyone's very best efforts, we have been unable to complete the arrangements
before the PFA Rally at Kemble. After very careful consideration, it was
felt inappropriate for Europa to attend the PFA Rally with these clouds of
uncertainty around.
Once all of the financial and legal arrangements have been made we will be making
a further announcement.
Many thanks for your continued support and patience.
Keith Wilson
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
On friday Europa Management International Ltd - whole owners of the US operation,
BTW, and yes, John Hurst has done a great job of supporting you guys over
the pond, but dont forget Neville and Andy here in the UK who are still supporting
us all whilst no doubt under a great deal of pressure - were still trading,
but we were informed that they were only taking orders for parts in stock.
Over the entire weekend I was amazed at how positive everyone was about what support
could be offered IF anything were to happen to the Factory - but the Factory
is still going.
Today, Sunday, at lunchtime I was talking to Dave Calderwood, Editor of the UK's
Pilot magazine, and he told me that Keith Wilson did in fact come to Kemble
and the Rally on saturday evening, did a few photography sorties and went briefly
through the parked aircraft area before departing: Perhaps he noticed the
100 plus Europa customers enjoying the Club BBQ near the runway as he departed.
Irrespective of the future of Europa Management International Ltd, the Europa
Club will continue to support those who feel membership is worthwhile - I have
a flying Europa, it occasionally needs replacement parts, were better as one
group than individually.
Thank you for your support.
dave bosomworth
PS -PLEASE dont repost the whole email if you feel the need to reply!!!!!!!!
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Some good news, anyone? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Carl & Dot" <carl_p@ntlworld.com>
For those of us who have been in the Europa arena for a very long time we
have seen seveal engines bolted on to the Europa and the only one that has
worked faultlessly is the Rotax. Most of the others have had problems
especially the Subaru.
Personally, I would say that a three year guarantee is pretty worthless when
your aircraft is grounded because of a problem. Its easy to offer a
guarantee but its much harder to back it up.
Frankly the Rotax dosent need a guarantee as it never goes wrong. Anyone
disagree ????
My philosophy is if something works well why change it.
Regarding the developments in England, whether Europa Management continues
to trade or not will have little effect on the availability of parts and in
particular firewall forward kits. I understand that someone is already in a
position to be able to offer firewall foreward kits if Europa Management
ceases to exist.
In the interim, The Europa Club is planning to help members with problems
associated with the current developments. If you are not already a member of
the Europa Club, you would be well advised to join as membership will
provide many advantages not available to others (not well put, but I hope
you know what I mean).
Carl & Dot
G-LABS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Proctor" <pjoe2@qwest.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Some good news, anyone?
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Joe Proctor" <pjoe2@qwest.net>
>
> >> > John,
> > >
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: <TELEDYNMCS@aol.com>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Some good news, anyone?
>
>
> What engine are you putting on?
> I'll have to seriously consider the Jabiru 3300 or the Subaru EA81
> > as options. I've already talked to reps from both alternatives and I can
> go
> > either way fairly easily, although the Subaru looks like a lot more work
> since
> > I'd have to fabricate the engine mounts, exhaust system, etc.
>
> After attending Arlington yesterday and talking with a rep. from NSI you
may
> want to reconsider your assumption about the Subaru being more difficult.
> Their firewall forward package is so complete for $15,000 that I am
> seriously considering this alternative to the Rotax in light of the
> developments in England. They have worked out the bugs in their PSRU by
> completely changing the unit out with a redesigned model. Exhaust, wiring,
> muffler, engine mount, cowling, variable speed prop two or three blade
> spinner, even a firewall blanket are all included, all this with a three
> year warranty. As I understand it Rotax does not offer more that a one
year
> warranty.Comments anyone?
> Regards,
> Joe Proctor
> Milwaukie, OR
> A272
> ,
> >
> > John Lawton
> > Dunlap, TN
> > A-245
> >
> > DO NOT ARCHIVE
> >
> >
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Some good news, anyone? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
Carl Hi!
> Frankly the Rotax dosent need a guarantee as it never goes wrong. Anyone
> disagree ????
The record of the Rotax Engine is good but...... It does have problems.
Several owners known to me have had to spend some significant money on early
replacement of Starter related mechanisms and in one case a lengthy wait for
the diagnosis. It also has some design weaknesses but if checked and looked
after operates well.
The Subaru Engine is basically very sound too. Yes it's a little on the
heavy side for a Europa, has had operational weaknesses around cooling and
ignition but shouldn't be dismissed out of hand as an alternative.
I'm happy to have eventually decided on Rotax but am open minded enough to
allow others to make choices against the run of play including Subaru,
Honda, Jabiru ands who knows what.
My late night 10 pence worth.
Regards
Gerry
Europa 384 G-FIZY
Trigear with Rotax 912 and Arplast CS Prop.
Engine and Prop getting near to starting.
Painting completed. Just vinyl design scheme to be added.
Completing Wiring to Panel.
Includes Dynon EFIS, KMD 150, Icom A-200 and SL70 Transponder. AoA Fitted.
http://www.g-fizy.com
+44 7808 402404
gnholland@onetel.com
Message 22
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| Subject: | RE: US office & Oshkosh Plans |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <europaflyer_3@msn.com>
>>> "Shouldn't", I can't believe you guys - what a bunch self serving,
>>> opportunistic, crap. Instead of working together to get through this,
>>> until someone buys the company, "let's scare everyone into sending in
>>> their 25 bucks" . Brilliant!.
>>> The basic translation of your email is:
>>> We intend to control access to suppliers, vendors, and information.
>>> Pay-up or you can't finish your project.
>>> The lot of you should be ashamed of yourselves .....
OK, deep breath.... keep temper... don=92t get mad...!!! How on earth did my
email get translated as "control access to suppliers, vendors and
information", or "let's scare everyone into sending in their 25 bucks"????
I've just spent my weekend as a volunteer at the PFA Rally meeting and
talking with a bunch of really great people who love Europas and flying
them, discussing possible solutions to the problems at the Factory, and yes,
giving up my time for free to help 'the cause' of cheaper, more enjoyable
flying. Having collapsed in bed for the last hour, I thought I'd check my
emails before turning off the light and found your response.
Steve, no-one is compelling anyone to do anything. I'm really, really
offended that you think I'm trying to do that. Birth, death and taxes are
mandatory, Club membership is not. I just think everyone in the Europa world
will be much better off if we all work together, and I hope you'll
reconsider the meaning of my email and your opinion of it. If you wish to
work on your own, please go ahead, I have no problem with that!
Perhaps "shouldn=92t" wasn't the best word, but all I was trying to say was
that if anything the Club can do is going to cost money, it shouldn=92t be the
case that only some of the beneficiaries pay for it. I offer everyone my
time for free and I don=92t intend to change that - my contributions to the
cause there are the Club website, my efforts to resolve many of the
Engineering and management issues at the PFA, and my time at the Rally to
educate others on the joys of composite work and encourage them to consider
it as an alternative to wood or metal. That doesn=92t mean to say I think I
should put my hand in my pocket to pay for someone else's aeroplane.
Regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Tail done
Standard XS wings awaiting mods and closing
CM ready for installation in fuse (with airbrakes fittings), but holding off
while I do a load of small jobs first
1100 build hours to date
Intended fit:
Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop
Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms
Message 23
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| Subject: | current status..... |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Without Prejudice....
Thanks Dave Bossomworth for publishing a resume of the current situation.
Pleased to hear there are financial negotiations going on for capital injections
as indeed no doubt the creditors are!
I hope the photographic priorities aren't the root cause of lack of attention to
what I have seen is a "blood letting" over an unnecessarily long period without
resounding statements to the contrary.
I wish all who are struggling to get the ship under way again a speedy recovery,
but there's then no doubt that eye's should be focused right on the ball with
no sideline deviations.
Regards
Bob Harrison.
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: Some good news, anyone? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: James Nelson <europajim@juno.com>
John,
I would recommend you don't go the Subaru way. The EA81 is just
not enough to make it go. Any larger engine weighs to much. I would go
the Jabiru route if things don't get sorted out soon. You might get with
Bob Berube as he might be able to steer you to a note to Andy or Nevil in
England as to who makes the parts for the fire wall forward. You could
deal direct with them (at their costs I would think ) and get the parts
you need.
Jim
Happy Honeymooning ? 30 days?? wow!!
On Sun, 11 Jul 2004 10:52:49 EDT TELEDYNMCS@aol.com writes:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 7/10/2004 11:44:54 PM Eastern Daylight Time,
> VE3LVO@rac.ca
> writes:
>
> > John,
> > What engine are you putting on?
> > Ferg
>
> Hi Ferg,
>
> Until this most recent news from Europa I had pretty much decided on
> the
> 912S/Airmaster combo. In fact, I've asked John Hurst to put a 912S
> FWF kit on
> order for me, but he tells me he can't confirm a delivery date from
> the UK. If
> Europa isn't able to deliver a FWF kit by about mid October (or at
> the very least
> the cowls) I'll have to seriously consider the Jabiru 3300 or the
> Subaru EA81
> as options. I've already talked to reps from both alternatives and I
> can go
> either way fairly easily, although the Subaru looks like a lot more
> work since
> I'd have to fabricate the engine mounts, exhaust system, etc.
>
> Susan and I are about to depart on our honeymoon on or about July
> 22nd and
> we'll be gone about a month. This should give Europa some time to
> sort out what
> they are going to do in regard to supporting those of us who haven't
> completed
> our projects. When I return I anticipate jumping on the fitting of
> the
> doors, then finish and paint (with renewed vigor), but I'm still
> about 3-4 months
> away from needing an engine. Hopefully, Europa's troubles will all
> get sorted
> out and they will recover. It's hard to imagine a kit as nice as the
> Europa
> going by the wayside. However, I'm not willing to wait 6 months or
> longer to get
> a FWF package when other viable alternatives are out there.
> Hopefully, by the
> time we return from our western odyssey we'll have some specifics
> from Europa.
>
> Regards,
>
> John Lawton
> Dunlap, TN
> A-245
>
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
>
>
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
=
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 25
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| Subject: | RE: US office & Oshkosh Plans |
2.6 REPLY_TO_EMPTY Reply-To: is empty
--> Europa-List message posted by: "SteveD" <Post2Forum@comcast.net>
Yes, it was the "Shouldn't!!!" I'll drop the 2x4 now.
On to other topics, I've been in contact with John and we're going to post the
US inventory on the site. As items get sold the post will be updated. Tentative
plans are for sales to be through emails or PMs on the site, with sales completed
on the phone at an agreed upon time with John.
I'm also setting up a Forum to post the parts that a builder still needs.
Each builder can post his list of parts. This will be added to a separate database,
ie: order 5 engine mounts, 4 front forks, etc. So, if I have four builders,
money in hand, that need glass, and you have three we can throw in together.
Great (The first order we get out I'll join twice, and I don't even need any
parts.)
I'm also looking for my database of parts, so off the shelf items can be listed.
If someone has such a list please email it to me so I can edit and source it.
My file is on a hard drive that's been in storage for 3 years.
Believe me, I know that the Europa Club has the best interest of the Europa community
in mind.
But due to cultural differences or whatever, we differ strongly on how to go about
it, and what our priories are.
Please let me know if I can provide any services.
Steved.
----------------
Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://forum.okhuijsen.org/
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: The Club, the Factory and the PFA rally |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Andrew Sarangan <andrew_europa@yahoo.com>
Thanks for the update on the Europa status. Based on
your email it appears that things may not be as bad as
they may have sounded. I hope you will provide us
updates on the situation.
As for the 'cultural differences' between the US and
UK offices, I am puzzled. What exactly is this
difference? I have spoken to the UK office more often
than the US office, even though I live in the US. With
phone and email being practically free, I could care
less if the person at the other end is in London or in
Bankok. However, for getting supplies, it does make
sense to have a local office.
=====
Andrew Sarangan
http://www.geocities.com/asarangan
Message 27
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
I totally agree with Carl @ Dot. Not knowing much about engines I asked myself:
why go out on a limb with a prototype engine, when the 9xx Rotax is one of the
most if not the most popular engine for two-seat homebuilt, certified, and even
military aircraft ? An apparent lower price may well end up escalating as
you try to add all the bits for cooling, matching propeller, and addressing all
the other problems that you hadn't thought about. I resented paying the high
price for the Europa supplied FWF kit, but I spent less time installing it than
installing the doors.
There are many wonderful automotive and motorcycle engines that look suitable,
but it takes millions of dollars of development work to convert one to a proper
aircraft engine.
You should also ask yourself: what does it do to the resale price ?
Just my Canadian 2 cents worth, Karl
From: "Carl Dot" carl_p@ntlworld.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Some good news, anyone?
-- Europa-List message posted by: "Carl Dot" carl_p@ntlworld.com
For those of us who have been in the Europa arena for a very long time we
have seen seveal engines bolted on to the Europa and the only one that has
worked faultlessly is the Rotax. Most of the others have had problems
especially the Subaru.
Personally, I would say that a three year guarantee is pretty worthless when
your aircraft is grounded because of a problem. Its easy to offer a
guarantee but its much harder to back it up.
Frankly the Rotax dosent need a guarantee as it never goes wrong.Anyone
disagree ????
My philosophy is if something works well why change it.
Regarding the developments in England, whether Europa Management continues
to trade or not will have little effect on the availability of parts and in
particular firewall forward kits. I understand that someone is already in a
position to be able to offer firewall foreward kits if Europa Management
ceases to exist.
In the interim, The Europa Club is planning to help members with problems
associated with the current developments. If you are not already a member of
the Europa Club, you would be well advised to join as membership will
provide many advantages not available to others (not well put, but I hope
you know what I mean).
Carl Dot
G-LABS
----- Original Message -----
From: "Joe Proctor" pjoe2@qwest.net
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Some good news, anyone?
-- Europa-List message posted by: "Joe Proctor" pjoe2@qwest.net
John,
----- Original Message -----
From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
To: europa-list@matronics.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Some good news, anyone?
What engine are you putting on?
I'll have to seriously consider the Jabiru 3300 or the Subaru EA81
as options. I've already talked to reps from both alternatives and I can
go
either way fairly easily, although the Subaru looks like a lot more work
since
I'd have to fabricate the engine mounts, exhaust system, etc.
After attending Arlington yesterday and talking with a rep. from NSI you
may
want to reconsider your assumption about the Subaru being more difficult.
Their firewall forward package is so complete for $15,000 that I am
seriously considering this alternative to the Rotax in light of the
developments in England. They have worked out the bugs in their PSRU by
completely changing the unit out with a redesigned model. Exhaust, wiring,
muffler, engine mount, cowling, variable speed prop two or three blade
spinner, even a firewall blanket are all included, all this with a three
year warranty. As I understand it Rotax does not offer more that a one
year
warranty.Comments anyone?
Regards,
Joe Proctor
Milwaukie, OR
A272
,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 28
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bob Jacobsen" <jacobsenra@hotmail.com>
Being based at Arlington I get to hear some things about NSI. I would be
VERY CAREFUL in dealing with them, and I think you know what I mean. They
tend to overpromise and underdeliver, and that is all I am going to say on
that.
As for Rotax remember it is a certified aircraft engine.
It is well supported worldwide for parts, service etc.
It is sold by lots of dealers.
We know it works well in Europa's (lots flying)
The worst US Europa Crash was Subaru Powered (underpowered).
Rotax is financially very sound.
My two cents worth.
Bob Jacobsen
>From: "Joe Proctor" <pjoe2@qwest.net>
>Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Some good news, anyone?
>Date: Sun, 11 Jul 2004 14:13:50 -0700
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Joe Proctor" <pjoe2@qwest.net>
>
> >> > John,
> > >
>----- Original Message -----
>From: <TELEDYNMCS@aol.com>
>To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: Some good news, anyone?
>
>
> What engine are you putting on?
> I'll have to seriously consider the Jabiru 3300 or the Subaru EA81
> > as options. I've already talked to reps from both alternatives and I can
>go
> > either way fairly easily, although the Subaru looks like a lot more work
>since
> > I'd have to fabricate the engine mounts, exhaust system, etc.
>
>After attending Arlington yesterday and talking with a rep. from NSI you
>may
>want to reconsider your assumption about the Subaru being more difficult.
>Their firewall forward package is so complete for $15,000 that I am
>seriously considering this alternative to the Rotax in light of the
>developments in England. They have worked out the bugs in their PSRU by
>completely changing the unit out with a redesigned model. Exhaust, wiring,
>muffler, engine mount, cowling, variable speed prop two or three blade
>spinner, even a firewall blanket are all included, all this with a three
>year warranty. As I understand it Rotax does not offer more that a one year
>warranty.Comments anyone?
>Regards,
>Joe Proctor
>Milwaukie, OR
>A272
>,
> >
> > John Lawton
> > Dunlap, TN
> > A-245
> >
> > DO NOT ARCHIVE
> >
> >
>
>
http://toolbar.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200415ave/direct/01/
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Engine choices |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" <nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
Your choice of engine is the most expensive individual choice you can make
during the manufacture of your Europa. Several engines have come and gone
but no engine has proved its worth any better than the Rotax. Some of them
have proved totally unsuitable whilst others have added weight which reduces
payload (a valuable commodity). As Ivan said in the early days 'There is
more work developing a new engine installation than designing the airframe'.
So be sure that you make the right choice before you commit yourself. The
factory problems are not a good reason to change your choice of engine.
Whatever happens, I know first hand that there is very likely to be a Rotax
firewall forward package available. Whether it comes from inside or outside
the company time will tell.
For what it is worth my input on the engine choice is as follows:
Rotax
Well proven, good power to weight, good reliability, good fuel consumption,
expensive to buy
Subaru
Cheaper to buy, heavy (expect to waste about 60lb of payload), slightly more
difficult to handle with a monowheel setup (due to the pitch moment couple-
applicable to all heavy engines), slightly greater fuel consumption,
statistics tend to show a slightly poorer reliability
Jabiru
Cheaper to buy, some cooling aspects to address, direct drive and high prop
revs lead to inefficient power delivery, still quite early days to fully
assess as few flying in Europas
BMW
Much development work done by one builder in UK but torsional vibration
amongst other problems made it an unlikley contender (this builder now uses
a Rotax)
Wilksch Diesel
Lovely engine as a replacement for Lyco/Continentals but weight is still an
issue for the Europa installation, still only one flying in development, not
reccommended by manufacturer for trigear as weight is already critical in
monowheel installation
Other engines such as the Mid West Rotary, and an 0-200 have been tried and
found unsuitable.
Final observations
You only want to buy one engine no matter how expensive it is, changing your
mind later is time consuming and expensive
Rotax powered Europas fetch more secondhand.
The Europa is a great touring aircraft so maximising payload by keeping the
empty weight down is helpful.
Heavy engines require balancing - mounting the battery in the tail is not
ideal.
The cheaper options might save 10% on the whole project price but you might
not think it worth the saving later.
These are just a few personal observations picked up over the last 10 years.
I hope they are useful to those who have yet to commit themselves on engine
selection.
Nigel Charles
Message 30
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" <nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
>Being based at Arlington I get to hear some things about NSI. I would be
VERY CAREFUL in dealing with them, and I think you know what I mean. They
tend to overpromise and underdeliver<
I can confirm this. When I had an NSI prop I have never had such poor
customer service from any company.
Airmaster on the other hand could not be more opposite. From placing order,
prop manufactured, delivered to UK from New Zealand took 16 days. Every
e-mail question on installation was always answered the next working day.
Nigel Charles
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