---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sun 07/18/04: 33 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 05:21 AM - Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 07/15/04 (Kingsley Hurst) 2. 07:22 AM - Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 07/15/04 (Fergus Kyle) 3. 08:38 AM - Putting on the top (Fergus Kyle) 4. 09:03 AM - Re: Putting on the top (EuropaForum) 5. 10:42 AM - Short Links to Builders photo Albums (EuropaForum) 6. 10:51 AM - Drop-of -the-hat Mon19th (P.A.D.Clarke) 7. 12:55 PM - Nav Canada fee (KARL HEINDL) 8. 01:31 PM - Re: Putting on the top (Rocketman) 9. 02:11 PM - max gross weight [was: unhelpful digest reference] (Rowland Carson) 10. 02:17 PM - Re: Riveting aileron hinges (Jeremy Davey) 11. 02:32 PM - Auto Pilot (Dan Bish) 12. 02:35 PM - Re: Riveting aileron hinges (Rowland Carson) 13. 02:44 PM - Re: Auto Pilot (Jeremy Davey) 14. 02:55 PM - Re: Auto Pilot (N914RB) 15. 03:08 PM - Trio Auto Pilots (Tony Renshaw) 16. 03:23 PM - Re: max gross weight [was: unhelpful digest reference] (cgalley) 17. 04:31 PM - Re: Auto Pilot () 18. 04:55 PM - Re: Auto Pilot (Cliff Shaw) 19. 05:24 PM - Aileron Lateral Pushrod Adjustment (David Simenauer) 20. 05:25 PM - Re: Auto Pilot () 21. 05:46 PM - static port problems (Paul Boulet) 22. 06:10 PM - Re: Re: Auto Pilot (SteveD) 23. 06:11 PM - Re: static port problems (Tony Krzyzewski) 24. 06:20 PM - Re: Aileron Lateral Pushrod Adjustment (Rocketman) 25. 06:24 PM - Re: static port problems (Rocketman) 26. 06:44 PM - Re: Aileron Lateral Pushrod Adjustment (Tony Renshaw) 27. 07:21 PM - Re: static port problems (Tony Krzyzewski) 28. 07:25 PM - Re: Auto Pilot (Kevin Klinefelter) 29. 07:36 PM - Re: static port problems (Rocketman) 30. 07:38 PM - Re: max gross weight [was: unhelpful digest reference] (Fergus Kyle) 31. 08:15 PM - Re: Riveting aileron hinges (Andrew Sarangan) 32. 08:24 PM - Another aileron riveting question (Andrew Sarangan) 33. 10:22 PM - Re: Auto Pilot (N914RB) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:17 AM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 07/15/04 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" > I don't know the formula yet, but . . . . . .may be missing or *developped* another way. Uncharacteristic of you Ferg ! In jest Kingsley Do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:22:21 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 10 Msgs - 07/15/04 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred R. Klein" Subject: Re: Europa-List: not really | --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" | | on 7/17/04 5:23 AM, Fergus Kyle at VE3LVO@rac.ca wrote: | > Hi, | > I understand from the Calgary crew (whose aircraft was registered | > with AUW of 1500#) that the maximum is calculated basically from the wind | > area and type of aircraft. I don't know the formula yet, but suspect that | > structural considerations may be missing or developped another way. | > Ferg| > A064 | | Hi Ferg, | Who, pray tell, are the Calgary crew? | When I mentioned a Canadian registered Europa approved at 1500# I was | referring to Alex Bowman's ship...are there more Canadian Europas flying @ | 1500#? Fred A194 Well, Fred, and Kingsley....... You have unmasked me. I think it was OSH where I met one of a pair of successful builders. In the course of complimenting him on his success (He from Calgary, alt_3500ftASL), he allowed as how he had sold it. When I asked him how the a/c behaved at that altitude - CYYC is famed for snow in every month of the year AND really hot summer days too - he said there was never any hint of hesitation from the 914-powered machine, nor was it particularly light in weight. The he dropped the news that theirs had been registered at 1500#AUW, and gave me the reason - as I have you. I was trying to hide the fact that (a) I've forgotten his name and (b) haven't gone into it properly, so don't have the formula. Nevertheless, I believe it to be so, and am not going to publicise it again, as don't want it rescinded till mine is done.......... The government has found further riches in its clawing for our lives by requiring a NavCan fee yearly, based on their usurping of the weather services (which they deem we all use) and their invaluable contribution to mankind of directing many of us down the same paths so they can be paid to keep us apart. This ripoff is based on WEIGHT - mainly I suppose because an aircraft below 600-odd kilos doesn't use nearly as much of their expertise as does one weighing 750 kilos. Remember, this is annually till I die - and beyond. See what you've done.............! Ferg ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:38:29 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Europa-List: Putting on the top --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" Hello - I may be five years late in discussing my experience in the above topic, but the sense of progress in what must be the slowest Europa ever to be born is driving me to share with any who may be farther behind than I. First of all, all the details I set to achieve prior to gluing the top on were not met. It became a struggle to do some without leaving out the vital actions. As a result I have smooth 1/2" ducting to replace wiring which should have gone in, and hope to squeeze other mods and installations by wriggling into the abyss. Secondly, without the push of a nearby (2 hr) fellow builder, one David Miller who is now well ahead of me in completion, I might never have done it. That's a given. Third, having that morning sanded all potential surfaces, I built two containers of 420 at 210gm total each (150 plus 60) and very lightly brushed the merest layer of same on the canoe surfaces marked as applicable - and noted the time. Four, the amount of flox stirred in cannot be easily measured, but I think one may safely add more flox than just to avoid slopping from too little. This is what David prescribed. I added more to provide more bulk, as some layers seemed not to provide the bulk the clearances appeared to need. Five, the task needed about 2 hours for the job, although the slopping of 420 on all surfaces was achieved in under 20 minutes using plastic tubs, well stirred with tongue depressors. I had applied the "splash" technique (pioneered by paul Stewart I believe and and engendered by GraSing) to the original bulkhead arch (which I cut down to a three-inch arc for strength), the revised second bulkhead 14inches behind the first which goes the whole route from keel to fuse top, the top of the mass-balance tower and the rear bulkhead, plus the later model rudder post. We then walked the top indoors, held it overhead and lowered it into position - badly. The result was some of the 420 was scraped off the canoe, both at the widest part (near bulkhead one), at the upper corner of the aft joggle (where the top refused initially squeeze wide enough to conform) and the 'wings' of the top where they overlie the rudderpost. Shocked at the little 'greening' of the canoe overlap (showing where 420 had squidged onto both surfaces) - much like you found with the cockpit insertion - I assembled a league of drill-screws (those which have a small drill, followed by threads incorporated) of the 1/4inch hexagonal drive head - #8x1/2inch long. Where green was sparse, I drilled in and cinched a drillscrew and was chuffed to see green expand. Unfortunately, this turned into a selfserving act of desperation which culiminated in a torrent of these devices to whit -121 in all, Some were at 20 inch spacings and some 2-3 inches apart. Six, aftermath.......... In spite of all urging, praying and foul language, not all spaces turned green - I would say about 5% or less remains improperly gooped. It will be 0% when I add injected 420 pure syrup via 1/16inch drill holes later today, as the bright backlight inside reveals all outside. I also kept the tubs and weighed them for residue and unused goop. 31.8gm - not bad as potentially wasted material I thought. So the amount used was 420gm - 31.8 = 388gm. Conclusions - [a] Everything behind the massbalance tower should be in place. I am convinced that no human contact with the nether world behind that is wanted. [2] Prepare the surfaces for adherence as close to H-hour as you can. I used a small electric sander which did the job in about 15 minutes. [3] For two people (three if a qualified goop mixer is contracted for) two pots of about 200gms or so plus the makings of an additonal 20gms of yellow paste should do the job. You may want to make one at a time, or make two smaller lots, but the advantage of two daubers at once is a time-sensitive thing, and really worth it. [4] Give each surface the amount of goop it deserves. If excess squeezes out in the event, you should have time to scrape it away and apply it elsewhere if you've been timely in application. We found the compound to be thickening within the hour, and useful for about another thrirty minutes after that - perhaps a bit longer. [5] Jam sticks in place insidse to wedge the top 'open' at the flanges, tied to pieces of cord which you can yank on to remove when in position. Manoeuvre the top cautiously down from above and when both sides are happy, plunk into place, giving early priority to the firewall surface. We found the upward joggle near the tail to be deficient by about 1/4inch, which may not now be the case (kit purchased in 1997). [6] Have several smaller projects requiring 420 on standby for excess. The sooner the daubing is done, the sooner excess can be redirected and the less the waste. [7] Do NOT daub the top's flanges. The advantage is the confirmation of wetting of both sides of the joggle flange when 420 wets the top and shows through visibly. I believe this outranks the pre-wetting of surfaces on the canoe. [8] Remove the drillscrews after about 7-8 hours. I found few of them tainted sufficiently to refuse to undo. The use of 1/4inch hexheads was an enormous advantage as the lowly elec. drill made the job a pushover. I counted them while watching The Right Stuff on TV. It is so visible a step, the triumph of this stage may save my marriage - . And we get back half of the guest bedroom for original purposes. Review sentence one again. Hope this was not too wordy, but that it serves some other poor fish. Cheers, Ferg ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:03:52 AM PST US From: EuropaForum Subject: Re: Europa-List: Putting on the top --> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaForum Ferg, outstanding post! Do you have any photos? Steved. Do not archive ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:42:48 AM PST US From: EuropaForum Subject: Europa-List: Short Links to Builders photo Albums --> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaForum Thanks to Josok and Teemu, Mod_rewrite is now enabled on the Forum. What does this mean? Simply: http://forum.okhuijsen.org/modules.php? set_albumName=FlyingEuropas&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=v iew_album.php is now: http://forum.okhuijsen.org/FlyingEuropas Oh, that big long URL is still there, we just tricked the link to go to the right spot. I only know enough to get this to work for each albums main menu page. If anyone on the list knows how to do mod_rewrite coding, please email me off list, I'm stuck, Thanks. Links to your albums main pages are: http://forum.okhuijsen.org/FlyingEuropas http://forum.okhuijsen.org/Builders-Album http://forum.okhuijsen.org/N914XL http://forum.okhuijsen.org/G-GIDY http://forum.okhuijsen.org/A252 http://forum.okhuijsen.org/PTAG http://forum.okhuijsen.org/ELRoto http://forum.okhuijsen.org/TonyR http://forum.okhuijsen.org/N224XS http://forum.okhuijsen.org/TonyPA184 http://forum.okhuijsen.org/DanBish http://forum.okhuijsen.org/BrianS http://forum.okhuijsen.org/WileE http://forum.okhuijsen.org/kit600 http://forum.okhuijsen.org/SteveD The only way to test this fully is to release it. Please report any errors to me off list or PM me on the Forum. Thanks, Steved. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:51:47 AM PST US From: "P.A.D.Clarke" Subject: Europa-List: Drop-of -the-hat Mon19th --> Europa-List message posted by: "P.A.D.Clarke" Hi All, The weather looks good for tomorrow 19th, so I propose to nominate Huddersfield for this weeks ( 1st ? ) d-o-t-h, on Monday. Apparently there is a good pub nearby for lunch. Voucher in Pilot Cheers, Paddy Clarke ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:55:46 PM PST US From: "KARL HEINDL" Subject: Europa-List: Nav Canada fee --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" Too true, Ferg, about yet another tax. I declared the weight of my Europa just below the 1370 pounds to escape the tax. The weight definition for the Bureaucrats is the weight you are on the climp test flight. So, whoever declared 1500 must have had that weight on their test flight. In my case, I just guestimated it as the scales from the local airport were a load of crap. Cheers, Karl ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:31:11 PM PST US From: Rocketman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Putting on the top --> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman Ferg, That made me tired just reading it. Whew! But, congratulations on the milestone. Now your canoe has become a submarine... :) When we bonded the top on A055, last week, we used 6 people. But before doing the deed, we made a dry run, placing unpulled rivets at strategic points to make sure the top was aligned properly. The starboard side of the fin had to be a bit higher, on the flange, than the port, to align the fin. Once that was done, one person mixed the 420 and flox and divided the mix into two cups. Two people, starting at the rear of the fuselage, spread the mix along the flange until they met at the front. When ready to set the top on, four people, two on each side, lifted the top on and pulled out on the sides, to avoid letting it touch the lower. I set three rivets on the firewall flange, then started down one side for a few feet, then switched to the other side, until I reached the rear, using only the predrilled holes. Once that was done, I started setting drill point screws about every 8". Once the screws were in, we started scraping off the excess, which I applied to the fuel filler molding, to attach it to the cap. What little was left over was used to make sure all the seams were filled level. The whole process took about two hours, including the dry run. I did not use the "splash" technique on the rear bulkhead or mass balance bulkhead, but laying them up, the next day, was no problem. Since then, the fin ribs and sternpost are in, and the rudder and sternpost flanges are trimmed and ready to attach, permantly. That will have to wait until the fin tip is bonded. Waiting on the tail strobe to arrive, to insure the wiring is correct, before doing that. Again, congratulations on this milestone. It feels good, doesn't it? Fergus Kyle wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" > >Hello - >I may be five years late in discussing my experience in the above topic, but >the sense of progress in what must be the slowest Europa ever to be born is >driving me to share with any who may be farther behind than I. >First of all, all the details I set to achieve prior to gluing the top on >were not met. It became a struggle to do some without leaving out the vital >actions. As a result I have smooth 1/2" ducting to replace wiring which >should have gone in, and hope to squeeze other mods and installations by >wriggling into the abyss. >Secondly, without the push of a nearby (2 hr) fellow builder, one David >Miller who is now well ahead of me in completion, I might never have done >it. That's a given. >Third, having that morning sanded all potential surfaces, I built two >containers of 420 at 210gm total each (150 plus 60) and very lightly brushed >the merest layer of same on the canoe surfaces marked as applicable - and >noted the time. >Four, the amount of flox stirred in cannot be easily measured, but I think >one may safely add more flox than just to avoid slopping from too little. >This is what David prescribed. I added more to provide more bulk, as some >layers seemed not to provide the bulk the clearances appeared to need. >Five, the task needed about 2 hours for the job, although the slopping of >420 on all surfaces was achieved in under 20 minutes using plastic tubs, >well stirred with tongue depressors. I had applied the "splash" technique >(pioneered by paul Stewart I believe and and engendered by GraSing) to the >original bulkhead arch (which I cut down to a three-inch arc for strength), >the revised second bulkhead 14inches behind the first which goes the whole >route from keel to fuse top, the top of the mass-balance tower and the rear >bulkhead, plus the later model rudder post. >We then walked the top indoors, held it overhead and lowered it into >position - badly. The result was some of the 420 was scraped off the canoe, >both at the widest part (near bulkhead one), at the upper corner of the aft >joggle (where the top refused initially squeeze wide enough to conform) and >the 'wings' of the top where they overlie the rudderpost. >Shocked at the little 'greening' of the canoe overlap (showing where 420 had >squidged onto both surfaces) - much like you found with the cockpit >insertion - I assembled a league of drill-screws (those which have a small >drill, followed by threads incorporated) of the 1/4inch hexagonal drive >head - #8x1/2inch long. Where green was sparse, I drilled in and cinched a >drillscrew and was chuffed to see green expand. Unfortunately, this turned >into a selfserving act of desperation which culiminated in a torrent of >these devices to whit -121 in all, Some were at 20 inch spacings and some >2-3 inches apart. >Six, aftermath.......... In spite of all urging, praying and foul language, >not all spaces turned green - I would say about 5% or less remains >improperly gooped. It will be 0% when I add injected 420 pure syrup via >1/16inch drill holes later today, as the bright backlight inside reveals all >outside. >I also kept the tubs and weighed them for residue and unused goop. 31.8gm - >not bad as potentially wasted material I thought. So the amount used was >420gm - 31.8 = 388gm. > >Conclusions - >[a] Everything behind the massbalance tower should be in place. I am >convinced that no human contact with the nether world behind that is wanted. >[2] Prepare the surfaces for adherence as close to H-hour as you can. I >used a small electric sander which did the job in about 15 minutes. >[3] For two people (three if a qualified goop mixer is contracted for) >two pots of about 200gms or so plus the makings of an additonal 20gms of >yellow paste should do the job. You may want to make one at a time, or make >two smaller lots, but the advantage of two daubers at once is a >time-sensitive thing, and really worth it. >[4] Give each surface the amount of goop it deserves. If excess squeezes >out in the event, you should have time to scrape it away and apply it >elsewhere if you've been timely in application. We found the compound to be >thickening within the hour, and useful for about another thrirty minutes >after that - perhaps a bit longer. >[5] Jam sticks in place insidse to wedge the top 'open' at the flanges, >tied to pieces of cord which you can yank on to remove when in position. >Manoeuvre the top cautiously down from above and when both sides are happy, >plunk into place, giving early priority to the firewall surface. We found >the upward joggle near the tail to be deficient by about 1/4inch, which may >not now be the case (kit purchased in 1997). >[6] Have several smaller projects requiring 420 on standby for excess. >The sooner the daubing is done, the sooner excess can be redirected and the >less the waste. >[7] Do NOT daub the top's flanges. The advantage is the confirmation of >wetting of both sides of the joggle flange when 420 wets the top and shows >through visibly. I believe this outranks the pre-wetting of surfaces on the >canoe. >[8] Remove the drillscrews after about 7-8 hours. I found few of them >tainted sufficiently to refuse to undo. The use of 1/4inch hexheads was an >enormous advantage as the lowly elec. drill made the job a pushover. I >counted them while watching The Right Stuff on TV. > It is so visible a step, the triumph of this stage may save my >marriage - . And we get back half of the guest bedroom for original >purposes. Review sentence one again. >Hope this was not too wordy, but that it serves some other poor fish. >Cheers, Ferg > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:11:21 PM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: Europa-List: max gross weight [was: unhelpful digest reference] --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson At 2004-07-17 06:34 -0500 cgalley wrote: >The builder is in charge and can make any changes he feels comfortable with. >If the FAA will permit the plane >to fly its test phase then you are good to go. They are looking for >construction quality, W&B and proper paper work Cy - "W&B" - that's weight & balance, so aren't they looking for a weight that is appropriate to the airframe design rules? Or are they going to be happy with any old weight you stick on the form? Surely the FAA won't accept it if the builder says "I am comfortable for my Europa to have a MGW of 3600 pounds", for instance. regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson PFA #16532 | 710 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:17:09 PM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Riveting aileron hinges --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Rowland, I gotta ask - what's your technique for making the holes in the vee BELOW the hinge holes bigger than the hinge holes???? In reality 1/8" works just fine - it's just the break-head that enters the hole in the vee, and that doesn=92t swell in diameter. Also it pulls clear of the hole very quickly. Regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM ready for installation in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1200 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rowland Carson Subject: Re: Europa-List: Riveting aileron hinges --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson At 2004-07-16 21:22 -0700 Andrew Sarangan wrote: >When attempting to rivet the hinges in place, I >discovered that there is not enough verical space in >the leading edge "V" to accomodate the rivet tails >I have two options: drill small holes Andrew - drill the holes. Better make them a bit larger than 1/8" as the first thing that happens as you start to pull the rivet is that the shank swells at the tail end. You don't want that bulge to seize in the hole and pull out a patch of layup with it as you squeeze further. Afterwards you can fill the holes with flox if you wish, but there's not much room for manoeuvre in there even after pulling the rivets. Don't try to push the rivet heads down as you snap them, because it's highly likely you won't manage it successfully. If the heads aren't down tight onto the countersink you made, then they aren't providing adequate holding strength & location for the hinges, and that's much worse news than any cosmetic shortcomings! regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson PFA #16532 | 710 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:32:54 PM PST US From: "Dan Bish" Subject: Europa-List: Auto Pilot --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dan Bish" Just wondering if anyone out there has fitted an autopilot (EZ Pilot, Navaid, etc.) after the cockpit module has gone in. Would like to still fit it under the port seat but would like some advice on making the necessary connections at this stage. Bought my kit with the CM already in. Advice and/or photos appreciated. Thanks, Dan Bish A144 Tucson, AZ Empennange and mass balance tower finished, headed to the fuel system. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:35:30 PM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: RE: Europa-List: Riveting aileron hinges --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson At 2004-07-18 22:15 +0100 Jeremy Davey wrote: >I gotta ask - what's your technique for making the holes in the vee BELOW >the hinge holes bigger than the hinge holes???? Jeremy - just goes to show you can't believe everything you read on this internet thingamajig! I was sure when I wrote it that I had done it, but on thinking clearly about the geometry, I can't imagine how it would have been achieved. Advantage Davey. regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson PFA #16532 | 710 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:44:40 PM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Auto Pilot --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Dan, The Europa Club mod for fitting a Navaid is designed to be used after-the-fact. I've used a TruTrack, but based it mostly on the Navaid version, and I reckon you could do it that way, too - although fitting the servo will be even more of a pain through those small apertures! Regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM ready for installation in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1200 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Bish Subject: Europa-List: Auto Pilot --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dan Bish" Just wondering if anyone out there has fitted an autopilot (EZ Pilot, Navaid, etc.) after the cockpit module has gone in. Would like to still fit it under the port seat but would like some advice on making the necessary connections at this stage. Bought my kit with the CM already in. Advice and/or photos appreciated. Thanks, Dan Bish A144 Tucson, AZ Empennange and mass balance tower finished, headed to the fuel system. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:55:30 PM PST US From: "N914RB" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Auto Pilot --> Europa-List message posted by: "N914RB" Thanks Jeremy. I'll have a look there. Dan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Auto Pilot > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > > Dan, > > The Europa Club mod for fitting a Navaid is designed to be used > after-the-fact. I've used a TruTrack, but based it mostly on the Navaid > version, and I reckon you could do it that way, too - although fitting the > servo will be even more of a pain through those small apertures! > > Regards, > Jeremy > > Jeremy Davey > > Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA > > Tail done > Standard XS wings with mods underway > CM ready for installation in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) > 1200 build hours to date > > Intended fit: > Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop > Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Bish > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Auto Pilot > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dan Bish" > > Just wondering if anyone out there has fitted an autopilot (EZ Pilot, > Navaid, etc.) after the cockpit module has gone in. Would like to still fit > it under the port seat but would like some advice on making the necessary > connections at this stage. Bought my kit with the CM already in. Advice > and/or photos appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Dan Bish > A144 > Tucson, AZ > Empennange and mass balance tower finished, headed to the fuel system. > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:08:25 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Europa-List: Trio Auto Pilots --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw Dan and co, Have a close look at http://www.trioavionics.com/ These are the most featured autopilot heads and the Navaid servo can be placed under your right knee. If ever it was to bind or cause you grief, at least if you could reach the actuator, imagining single pilot, and you installed a quick release, well you can always manually ditch it. I will be buying one of these as soon as the Aussie dollar firms up, maybe election time. Reg Tony Renshaw Sydney Australia Classic 236 B.B. Taildragger Tail, Wings, Ailerons, Flaps Complete and Connected Lower Fuse in Jig, Tail Torque Tube installed Mass Balance assembly installed and deflections sorted Roof Panel between doors completed. Photos at: http://forum.okhuijsen.org/modules.php?set_albumName=TonyR&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php&PHPSESSID=902b69917a45f8b18ac84fe3f85a704b Intended Engine: 912S CS prop (model undecided) Instrumentation: Undecided ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 03:23:16 PM PST US From: "cgalley" Subject: Re: Europa-List: max gross weight [was: unhelpful digest reference] --> Europa-List message posted by: "cgalley" The W&B is that determination that the plane's center of gravity is in a proper place for stabile flight at that loading position and weight. At max gross the C.G. still must fall in the proper place. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rowland Carson" Subject: Europa-List: max gross weight [was: unhelpful digest reference] > --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson > > At 2004-07-17 06:34 -0500 cgalley wrote: > > >The builder is in charge and can make any changes he feels comfortable with. > > >If the FAA will permit the plane > >to fly its test phase then you are good to go. They are looking for > >construction quality, W&B and proper paper work > > Cy - "W&B" - that's weight & balance, so aren't they looking for a > weight that is appropriate to the airframe design rules? Or are they > going to be happy with any old weight you stick on the form? Surely > the FAA won't accept it if the builder says "I am comfortable for my > Europa to have a MGW of 3600 pounds", for instance. > > regards > > Rowland > -- > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:31:50 PM PST US From: Subject: RE: Europa-List: Auto Pilot --> Europa-List message posted by: Hi Dan I fit a TruTrak after the module went in and installing the servo was easy. It is under the copilot seat and in the event of a failure, you do not have to disconnect it as it is easily "overpowered" with little effort. Read about TruTrak in the last Sport Aviation. I do have some photos of the servo installation. There latest unit is light, has solid state servos and gives you a turn coordinator and digital headings and takes directions from a GPS! They are a pleasure to deal with. Tom XS Jab Airmaster mono Atascadero CA N96V -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Dan Bish Subject: Europa-List: Auto Pilot --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dan Bish" Just wondering if anyone out there has fitted an autopilot (EZ Pilot, Navaid, etc.) after the cockpit module has gone in. Would like to still fit it under the port seat but would like some advice on making the necessary connections at this stage. Bought my kit with the CM already in. Advice and/or photos appreciated. Thanks, Dan Bish A144 Tucson, AZ Empennange and mass balance tower finished, headed to the fuel system. == == == == ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 04:55:41 PM PST US From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Auto Pilot --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" Dan I too installed DigiTrack after the CM was bonded in. I put the servo in the outboard compartment under the Copilot's knees. It is mounted to a plat that covers the opening. The arm is foreword and is covered with a faring . The arm is very short and connects to the base of the control stick gooseneck. Works for me. Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:24:26 PM PST US From: "David Simenauer" Subject: Europa-List: Aileron Lateral Pushrod Adjustment --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Simenauer" I have just installed the lateral pushrod and bellcranks onto my starboard wing. The manual says to thread the pushrod into the rod end bearings so they are threaded equally. Is the number of threads exposed critical or is it only important to have them threaded equally? I installed the rod so as to have about two threads exposed on each end but this is just a guess right now on my part. Dave Simenauer A101 ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 05:25:23 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Europa-List: Auto Pilot --> Europa-List message posted by: I have my Digitrack installed the same way and it works fine. Ken Carpenter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Auto Pilot > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" > > Dan > > I too installed DigiTrack after the CM was bonded in. I put the servo in > the outboard compartment under the Copilot's knees. It is mounted to a plat > that covers the opening. The arm is foreword and is covered with a faring . > The arm is very short and connects to the base of the control stick > gooseneck. Works for me. > > Cliff Shaw > 1041 Euclid ave. > Edmonds, WA 98020 > 425 776 5555 > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 05:46:40 PM PST US From: Paul Boulet Subject: Europa-List: static port problems --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Boulet Hi All; I searched archives for text on static port problems and didn't find much helpful stuff. Mine too broke off and I'm getting erroneous readings of airspeed and altitude. I tried ordering another couple of them from the Lakeland, Florida office but they told me they had no idea when they might get them in. Does anyone have a good alternative or other ideas to get me back in the air? This is very frustrating Paul Boulet, N914PB Malibu, CA Still need to fly the 40 hours off ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 06:10:13 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: RE: Auto Pilot From: "SteveD" 2.6 REPLY_TO_EMPTY Reply-To: is empty --> Europa-List message posted by: "SteveD" I also have the Digitrak and will be upgrading to the Pictorial Pilot http://www.trutrakflightsystems.com/ttfsdigiflightslick.html "This autopilot combines the superb performance of our Digitrak with a real aircraft flight instrument, the pictorial turn coordinator" "beecho at beecho.org" "It is under the copilot seat and in the event of a failure, you do not have to disconnect it as it is easily "overpowered" with little effort." The stepper motor is attached to the torque arm with a friction plate. Held on with one metal and two plastic screws. The large center screw is a center pivot. So with a little more effort you can shear the stepper motor from your controls if it becomes electrically or mechanically locked. Steved. ---------------- This Email contains Photos or Attachments located at the following link: http://forum.okhuijsen.org/viewtopic.php?p=935#935 ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://forum.okhuijsen.org/ ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:11:04 PM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: static port problems From: "Tony Krzyzewski" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Krzyzewski" >> Does anyone have a good alternative or other ideas to get me back in the air? This is very frustrating You could try using internal static which means that all you need to worry about is a 1/4" tube with a bend in it for your pitot. Tony ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:20:37 PM PST US From: Rocketman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aileron Lateral Pushrod Adjustment --> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman David Simenauer wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "David Simenauer" > >I have just installed the lateral pushrod and bellcranks onto my starboard wing. The manual says to thread the pushrod into the rod end bearings so they are threaded equally. Is the number of threads exposed critical or is it only important to have them threaded equally? I installed the rod so as to have about two threads exposed on each end but this is just a guess right now on my part. > >Dave Simenauer >A101 > > > > Dave, At the moment, your guesstimate is fine. You'll be readjusting the rod, when you fit the ailerons to the wing. Basically the quick connect bellcrank will need to be at 90 degrees to the centerline of the two main spar pin holes, when the aileron is in the neutral position. Rule of thumb is that you should have 1.5 times the diameter of the bolt, inserted in the tube. -- Jeff A055 Builders Log: http://www.N55XS.com ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 06:24:05 PM PST US From: Rocketman Subject: Re: Europa-List: static port problems --> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman Tony Krzyzewski wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Krzyzewski" > > > > >>>Does anyone have a good alternative or other ideas to get me back in >>> >>> >the air? This is very frustrating > >You could try using internal static which means that all you need to >worry about is a 1/4" tube with a bend in it for your pitot. > >Tony > > > > A question while on the static tube subject. I "assume" the static tube is the lower one, with the black insert. How does a tube, facing into the wind stream supply "static" air? I've seen tubes that are plugged on the end, with holes on the side, but not in the configuration that the Europa supply vent supplies... Any help would be appreciated... -- Jeff A055 Builders Log: http://www.N55XS.com ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:21 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aileron Lateral Pushrod Adjustment --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw Dave, There is a specification and I think it is 2 1/2 times the diameter in buried thread max within the female end. The female end needs a certain amount of the male within it to take the load adaquately. On the standard thread, which I forget how many turns it is, I think it is about 12 turns from "all the way in, back out" as the max you can have the rod ends extended. The manual ballparks and often says to do the setup with the rod ends approximately 1/2 wound on, or 1/2 " or something like that, I forget now. It is close enought to 8-10 mm max as I recall. Andy knows the specs if you need them more exact than that, but the simple answer is not to wind them too far out, as there will not be enough buried male portion to act appropriately as a transmitter of forces. It probably isn't crucial as the applied forces are way above what I am sure the rod ends can accept, and also they can't undo once you've set it up properly. Reg Tony Renshaw At 10:23 AM 7/19/2004, you wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "David Simenauer" > >I have just installed the lateral pushrod and bellcranks onto my starboard >wing. The manual says to thread the pushrod into the rod end bearings so >they are threaded equally. Is the number of threads exposed critical or >is it only important to have them threaded equally? I installed the rod >so as to have about two threads exposed on each end but this is just a >guess right now on my part. > >Dave Simenauer >A101 > > ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 07:21:57 PM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: static port problems From: "Tony Krzyzewski" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Krzyzewski" A question while on the static tube subject. I "assume" the static tube is the lower one, with the black insert. How does a tube, facing into the wind stream supply "static" air? I've seen tubes that are plugged on the end, with holes on the side, but not in the configuration that the Europa supply vent supplies... Any help would be appreciated... There are two small holes in the black plastic insert. Tony ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:25:08 PM PST US From: "Kevin Klinefelter" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Auto Pilot --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" I fitted a Trutrak Digitrak under the passenger seat after looking at Steve Dunsmuir's pictures. He did it before the module went in; I did it after. I made access doors in the seat bottom to get to the machine itself and to get to the torque tube to attach the little drive arm. The whole thing is enclosed under the seat with covers over the openings. I just ordered the "pictorial pilot" turn and bank display. Have you seen the article on Trutrak in Sport Aviation? Kevin, A211 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Bish Subject: Europa-List: Auto Pilot --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dan Bish" Just wondering if anyone out there has fitted an autopilot (EZ Pilot, Navaid, etc.) after the cockpit module has gone in. Would like to still fit it under the port seat but would like some advice on making the necessary connections at this stage. Bought my kit with the CM already in. Advice and/or photos appreciated. Thanks, Dan Bish A144 Tucson, AZ Empennange and mass balance tower finished, headed to the fuel system. ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:49 PM PST US From: Rocketman Subject: Re: Europa-List: static port problems --> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman Tony Krzyzewski wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Krzyzewski" > > >A question while on the static tube subject. I "assume" the static tube >is the lower one, with the black insert. How does a tube, facing into >the wind stream supply "static" air? I've seen tubes that are plugged >on the end, with holes on the side, but not in the configuration that >the Europa supply vent supplies... Any help would be appreciated... > >There are two small holes in the black plastic insert. > >Tony > > > > Now it makes sense. Thanks... -- Jeff A055 Builders Log: http://www.N55XS.com ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:46 PM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Re: Europa-List: max gross weight [was: unhelpful digest reference] --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rowland Carson" Subject: Europa-List: max gross weight [was: unhelpful digest reference] | --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson | | At 2004-07-17 06:34 -0500 cgalley wrote: | | >The builder is in charge and can make any changes he feels comfortable with. | | >If the FAA will permit the plane | >to fly its test phase then you are good to go. They are looking for | >construction quality, W&B and proper paper work | | Cy - "W&B" - that's weight & balance, so aren't they looking for a | weight that is appropriate to the airframe design rules? Or are they | going to be happy with any old weight you stick on the form? Surely | the FAA won't accept it if the builder says "I am comfortable for my | Europa to have a MGW of 3600 pounds", for instance. | | regards | Rowland, Well as Karl Heindl reminded me, you choose a weight here with which to complete the climb check for registration. That's the weight they tag as max. AUW. (In Canada, they also tax you annually at that weight). So I guess the aeronautically-correct answer is - what it's worth as a money grab. Ferg ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 08:15:15 PM PST US From: Andrew Sarangan Subject: RE: Europa-List: Riveting aileron hinges --> Europa-List message posted by: Andrew Sarangan The same 3.3mm drill used for the hinges worked fine for the rivets. Actually it was difficult to _not_ make a hole below the "V" when you drill through the hinges. Due to the proximity of the two surfaces of the "V", once the drill pops out of the flange, it hits the next surface almost immediately and makes a hole. --- Jeremy Davey wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > > > Rowland, > > I gotta ask - what's your technique for making the > holes in the vee BELOW > the hinge holes bigger than the hinge holes???? > > In reality 1/8" works just fine - it's just the > break-head that enters the > hole in the vee, and that doesn=92t swell in > diameter. Also it pulls clear of > the hole very quickly. > > Regards, > Jeremy > > Jeremy Davey > ===== Andrew Sarangan http://www.geocities.com/asarangan __________________________________ http://promotions.yahoo.com/new_mail ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:42 PM PST US From: Andrew Sarangan Subject: Europa-List: Another aileron riveting question --> Europa-List message posted by: Andrew Sarangan How important is the rivet positions on the aileron flange? I made a booboo and drilled a hole in the wrong spot (I got the back and front rows of holes mixed up because I was looking at the manual upside down). I am almost certain that this is not a big deal, but I want a sanity check. The following figure shows the desired rivet holes as per manual: --------HINGE-------- o o o o o o o This is what I did: --------HINGE-------- o o o o o o o ===== Andrew Sarangan http://www.geocities.com/asarangan __________________________________ http://advision.webevents.yahoo.com/yahoo/votelifeengine/ ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 10:22:27 PM PST US From: "N914RB" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Auto Pilot --> Europa-List message posted by: "N914RB" I'll check it out, thanks! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kevin Klinefelter" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Auto Pilot > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" > > I fitted a Trutrak Digitrak under the passenger seat after looking at Steve > Dunsmuir's pictures. He did it before the module went in; I did it after. I > made access doors in the seat bottom to get to the machine itself and to get > to the torque tube to attach the little drive arm. The whole thing is > enclosed under the seat with covers over the openings. > > I just ordered the "pictorial pilot" turn and bank display. > Have you seen the article on Trutrak in Sport Aviation? > Kevin, A211 > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dan Bish > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Auto Pilot > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dan Bish" > > Just wondering if anyone out there has fitted an autopilot (EZ Pilot, > Navaid, etc.) after the cockpit module has gone in. Would like to still fit > it under the port seat but would like some advice on making the necessary > connections at this stage. Bought my kit with the CM already in. Advice > and/or photos appreciated. > > Thanks, > > Dan Bish > A144 > Tucson, AZ > Empennange and mass balance tower finished, headed to the fuel system. > >