Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:27 AM - Re: Rutan Biography (Alan Burrows)
2. 03:50 AM - Tri-gear bungee (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
3. 03:53 AM - Re: Ivoprop (Andy Draper)
4. 04:13 AM - Fuel filter (Bill and Sue)
5. 04:17 AM - Re: New Ampreg 22 (Neville Eyre)
6. 05:35 AM - New Ampreg 22 cont'd (Tony Renshaw)
7. 06:52 AM - Re: Redux/Araldite 420 (Al Stills)
8. 08:24 AM - Re: Redux/Araldite 420 (Rocketman)
9. 08:28 AM - Re: What Future for Europa Customers (Neville Eyre)
10. 08:34 AM - Re: What Future for Europa Customers (Neville Eyre)
11. 08:46 AM - Re: What Future for Europa Customers (DaveBuzz@aol.com)
12. 08:53 AM - Re: Redux/Araldite 420 (n3eu@comcast.net)
13. 09:01 AM - Re: What Future for Europa Customers (DaveBuzz@aol.com)
14. 09:04 AM - What future for Europa Customers (Fred R. Klein)
15. 09:19 AM - Re: What Future for Europa Customers (NevEyre@aol.com)
16. 10:25 AM - Re: What future for Europa Customers (Jeremy Davey)
17. 10:41 AM - Re: What future for Europa Customers (G-IANI)
18. 10:41 AM - damage control (Fred R. Klein)
19. 10:48 AM - Re: What future for Europa Customers (n3eu@comcast.net)
20. 10:52 AM - Re: What future for Europa Customers (Alan Burrows)
21. 10:59 AM - Re: What future for Europa Customers (Peter Grant)
22. 11:58 AM - Re: Ivoprop (Duncan McFadyean)
23. 12:25 PM - Re: Tri-gear bungee (Richard Iddon)
24. 01:54 PM - Re: damage control (bryan allsop)
25. 03:25 PM - Re: damage control (Tony Krzyzewski)
26. 04:07 PM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 07/27/04 (Graham Singleton)
27. 04:24 PM - Re: damage control ()
28. 05:01 PM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 07/27/04 (Graham Singleton)
29. 05:01 PM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 07/27/04 (Graham Singleton)
30. 05:14 PM - Re: What Future for Europa Customers (Keith Hartley)
31. 05:23 PM - And pigs will fly (an Europa) (Alexander Kaarsberg)
32. 05:46 PM - Re: Redux/Araldite 420 (Don Pettey)
33. 05:57 PM - Re: Redux/Araldite 420 (Don Pettey)
34. 10:32 PM - Re: damage control (Steve & Eileen Genotte)
Message 1
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" <alan@kestrel-insurance.com>
Hi Guys
Unfortunately I have no influence with either the organisers or the
Rutan's but I will put your offer to both:-) As regards camping there
is no problem with that I am told of getting mogas as I will have my car
there (& my pump & plastic cans) so its easy to trip out for fuel
(personal & engine). Look forward to seeing you.
Alan B.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of bryan
allsop
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rutan Biography
--> Europa-List message posted by: "bryan allsop"
--> <info@blackballclub.fsnet.co.uk>
Alan,
I understand that the lecture will only take place on Friday the 6th. Is
that correct? All being well Brian Huchinson and I intend to join on
Saturday, and camp with the aircraft for the evening. Are there any
problems with that? Burt and Dick will be more than welcome to join us
for a camper's sing-in providing they bring a bottle.
Bryan
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
Message 2
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>
Hi, all,
In "The Europa Flyer", issue #40, Kevin Pilcher describes his method for
fitting the bungee cord for the tri-gear's nose wheel. I have heard,
however, that the lengths stated in the article (4 off lengths of 16 inches,
1 off of 18 inches) are incorrect, and would therefore appreciate if anyone
knows the correct lengths (I do not have Kevin's contact phone/e-mail, but
if anyone does, please let me know OFF-LIST since he has not listed this
information in the online Club membership list).
Thanks!
Regards,
Svein K. Johnsen
A225 XS Tri-gear (now in Norway)
Message 3
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Andy Draper" <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
Hi Duncan,
The IVO prop was a VP version, using a rod within the hollow blade to twist it
at about 70% radius. We found early on that it was poor so it was abandoned.
Regards
Andy
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ami
McFadyean
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ivoprop
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ami McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
Andy,
Did you ever get to try the VP version of the Ivo?
I seem to remember that it broke down when you initially tried. Was there a
follow-up?
Rgds.,
Duncan McF
PS Not a fan of Ivoprops.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Draper" <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Ivoprop
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Andy Draper"
<andy@europa-aircraft.com>
>
> Dear Sven,
>
> We tried the IVO PROP on G-YURO with its 912 engine and the performance
was notably poor. The cooling efficiencey on the ground also suffered.
Unless the prop has changed radically in the years since, I would not
recommend its use on a Europa.
>
> regards
> Andy Draper
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sven den
> Boer
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Ivoprop
>
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Sven den Boer"
<svendenboer@quicknet.nl>
>
> Is there anyone who uses an Ivoprop in combination witha a 912 S fitted
Eruopa xs Trigear?
> Love to see any experience with prop and company.
>
> Cheers,
>
> Sven den Boer
> PH-SBR
>
>
Message 4
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bill and Sue" <billandsue@billbell.co.uk>
You could always try a chandlers There are quite a range of larger
plastic fuel cans available.
(for instance;
http://www.force4.co.uk/acatalog/Online_Catalogue_Dinghy_Accessories___P
umps__Tanks__Slings_etc_72.html )
Not that I would break the law and use one in the UK, but if you were to
try the 15 Litre size you would find it quite convenient to handle -nice
and light when empty managable when full. Being plastic it doesn't
damage your paintwork, and it has a usefull pouring spout too.
I'm sure the garage wouldn't spot the difference in size either!
Bill & Sue
465 -trigear with the cockpit module in.
Message 5
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Neville Eyre" <neville@europa-aircraft.com>
Hi All,
Before you all go off and buy Ampreg 22, please note that Ampreg 22 has not been
qualified by Europa as an alternative to Ampreg 20. The physical properties
fall short of the Ampreg 20 system. Anyone building in the UK would have to deal
with the P.F.A. if they wish to substitute the 20 for ANY other resin.
Cheers,
Nev.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tony Renshaw
Subject: Europa-List: New Ampreg 22
--> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au>
Nigel and Co.
If there is any intention to change resin systems might I suggest you take
a look at the newer SP Systems product Ampreg 22. The specs are all but the
same, or very similar to Ampreg 20, but it is a modern resin system
specifically designed to reduce some of the dangers of use, along with
providing a greater flexibility on how the product is used. The best thing
is that there are at least 2 hardeners, one fast and one Slow or Extra
Slow, and you can blend them as you please. Fast is really good for little
layups that are non structural, as you can get on with things straight away
the next morning. I haven't used it on any of my flying surfaces, only
within the fuse, but I can certainly "sing its praises". If there is any
doubt as to its suitability for Europas, a Europa is on its Technical Data
Sheet! Also, it can be used down to 18 degrees Celsius without any major
problem, therefore may well suit the basement work of those in the Northern
Hemisphere.
Rg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
At 10:08 PM 7/27/2004, you wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk
>
>If I was looking for an alternative supply of epoxy resin I would look at
>the German equivalent to Ampreg. One of the PFA inspectors who works with
>composites says it is much better quality. Also I know that it also causes
>less medical problems. One builder in a group had to give up the resin work
>due to severe allergies but found when they switched to the German product
>he had no allergic reactions.
>
>Nigel Charles
>
>
>Broadband from an unbeatable 15.99!
>
>http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/home.html?code=SM-NL-11AM
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | New Ampreg 22 cont'd |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au>
Nev,
Appreciating your comments, might I ask which other resin systems has
Europa validated as approved substitutes for SP Systems Ampreg 20? For a
substitute resin system to be approved it would require a structural
analysis, which would require the design load proprietary data to be made
available. Has Europa ever made this data available, and would they in the
future, and at what cost? So, if Ampreg 20 is not available any longer in
countries around the world other than the UK, with shipping and normal
delivery delays internationally delivering out of date product "off the
ship", being a very old resin system with known handling and using
hazards, what do you suggest as an alternative system? I am luckily in the
situation where all of my flight controls and flying surfaces have been
made with Ampreg 20, and I am using Ampreg 22 for the less critical layups
within the fuselage, but I am sure others may well like to hear your advice
on resin system substitutions pertinent to structurally critical areas.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
P.S. Did SP Systems gain approval of Europa for the inclusion of a/c to be
pictured on the Technical Data Sheet of the new Ampreg 22 resin system?
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Neville Eyre"
><neville@europa-aircraft.com>
>
>Hi All,
>Before you all go off and buy Ampreg 22, please note that Ampreg 22 has
>not been qualified by Europa as an alternative to Ampreg 20. The physical
>properties fall short of the Ampreg 20 system. Anyone building in the UK
>would have to deal with the P.F.A. if they wish to substitute the 20 for
>ANY other resin.
> Cheers,
>Nev.
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Tony Renshaw
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Europa-List: New Ampreg 22
>
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au>
>
>Nigel and Co.
>If there is any intention to change resin systems might I suggest you take
>a look at the newer SP Systems product Ampreg 22. The specs are all but the
>same, or very similar to Ampreg 20, but it is a modern resin system
>specifically designed to reduce some of the dangers of use, along with
>providing a greater flexibility on how the product is used. The best thing
>is that there are at least 2 hardeners, one fast and one Slow or Extra
>Slow, and you can blend them as you please. Fast is really good for little
>layups that are non structural, as you can get on with things straight away
>the next morning. I haven't used it on any of my flying surfaces, only
>within the fuse, but I can certainly "sing its praises". If there is any
>doubt as to its suitability for Europas, a Europa is on its Technical Data
>Sheet! Also, it can be used down to 18 degrees Celsius without any major
>problem, therefore may well suit the basement work of those in the Northern
>Hemisphere.
>Rg
>Tony Renshaw
>Sydney Australia
>
>At 10:08 PM 7/27/2004, you wrote:
> >--> Europa-List message posted by: nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk
> >
> >If I was looking for an alternative supply of epoxy resin I would look at
> >the German equivalent to Ampreg. One of the PFA inspectors who works with
> >composites says it is much better quality. Also I know that it also causes
> >less medical problems. One builder in a group had to give up the resin work
> >due to severe allergies but found when they switched to the German product
> >he had no allergic reactions.
> >
> >Nigel Charles
> >
> >
> >Broadband from an unbeatable 15.99!
> >
> >http://www.tiscali.co.uk/products/broadband/home.html?code=SM-NL-11AM
> >
> >
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Redux/Araldite 420 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Al Stills" <astills@senecawholesale.com>
Dan and others,
I inquired to the factory about the Epibond 420 and bought from Grayco in Texas.
Price is about the same as factory......150.00 per qt + shipping and can be
bought one qt at a time. Freight approx 25.00 into Phx........ Gray Co 817-429-0466.
Al Stills
A095
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Redux/Araldite 420 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman <topglock@cox.net>
Al Stills wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Al Stills" <astills@senecawholesale.com>
>
>Dan and others,
>I inquired to the factory about the Epibond 420 and bought from Grayco in Texas.
Price is about the same as factory......150.00 per qt + shipping and can be
bought one qt at a time. Freight approx 25.00 into Phx........ Gray Co 817-429-0466.
>Al Stills
>A095
>
>
>
Thanks for the information, guys. I fired off an email to Silmid Ltd,
in the UK, to see if they will ship to the US and to inquire about
price. I'll report back when I get a reply...
--
Jeff - A055
Http://www.n55xs.com
Message 9
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| Subject: | What Future for Europa Customers |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Neville Eyre" <neville@europa-aircraft.com>
Ray Bedford said no such thing
Ray Bedford rang Dave out of respect for the Europa owners to advse him/them of
current events, and that statement would be posted later that day.
As Dave point blank refused to talk to Ray he never found out what that statement
was
It would have been as follows:
Europa are now in administraton - the administrator wishes to seek out interested
parties who may wish to buy the company.
Also, please be aware that Europa has had zero money to spend on parts therefore
has an empty storeroom. This has been the case for nearly six months. As an
employee of Europa Ray could hardly tell everyone the realty as he quite clearly
had/has his own fuure employment to consider. Loyalty is a very rare comodity
- even if it does turn out to be misguided.
A company will only ever be as good as its Leaders ?????????
Dont shoot messangers
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
DaveBuzz@aol.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: What Future for Europa Customers
--> Europa-List message posted by: DaveBuzz@aol.com
Thought you would all be interested to hear this.
I had a phone call this lunchtime from Ray Bedford, part-time stores manager
at the UK factory. He stated there would be a press release this afternoon about
the future of EMIL, and then tried to tell me what it was.
At this point I stopped him, and said I would read it on the Flyer website, at
the same time as everyone else - I have no idea what is to be said.
Well, I've just logged on and had a look at:
www.flyer.co.uk
www.pilotweb.co.uk
www.todayspilot.co.uk
and guess what - no news!
I think the EMIL customer attitude still prevails....
chus,
dave
Message 10
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| Subject: | What Future for Europa Customers |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Neville Eyre" <neville@europa-aircraft.com>
Hi All'
That last message was not from me, Ray wrote it !
Cheers,
Nev.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
DaveBuzz@aol.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: What Future for Europa Customers
--> Europa-List message posted by: DaveBuzz@aol.com
Thought you would all be interested to hear this.
I had a phone call this lunchtime from Ray Bedford, part-time stores manager
at the UK factory. He stated there would be a press release this afternoon about
the future of EMIL, and then tried to tell me what it was.
At this point I stopped him, and said I would read it on the Flyer website, at
the same time as everyone else - I have no idea what is to be said.
Well, I've just logged on and had a look at:
www.flyer.co.uk
www.pilotweb.co.uk
www.todayspilot.co.uk
and guess what - no news!
I think the EMIL customer attitude still prevails....
chus,
dave
Message 11
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| Subject: | What Future for Europa Customers |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DaveBuzz@aol.com
Hello Neville,
Sorry you had to be used to pass on the bad news - I refused to listen as then
it would have been up to me/the Club, to once again pass on the statement.
It's simply not our responsibility. That statement really needed to come from
Wilson - do you know where he is?
Do you have a name and contact details for the administrators please.
Many thanks for your help in the past and all the best for the future - and that
goes for all of the hard-working staff at Kirkbymoorside and the USA operation.
Please keep in touch
Dave
<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<,,,
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Neville Eyre" <neville@europa-aircraft.com>
>
>
>Ray Bedford said no such thing
>
>Ray Bedford rang Dave out of respect for the Europa owners to advse him/them of
current events, and that statement would be posted later that day.
>
>As Dave point blank refused to talk to Ray he never found out what that statement
was
>
>It would have been as follows:
>Europa are now in administraton - the administrator wishes to seek out interested
parties who may wish to buy the company.
>
>Also, please be aware that Europa has had zero money to spend on parts therefore
has an empty storeroom. This has been the case for nearly six months. As an
employee of Europa Ray could hardly tell everyone the realty as he quite clearly
had/has his own fuure employment to consider. Loyalty is a very rare comodity
- even if it does turn out to be misguided.
>
>A company will only ever be as good as its Leaders ?????????
>
>Dont shoot messangers
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
>DaveBuzz@aol.com
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Re: Europa-List: What Future for Europa Customers
>
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: DaveBuzz@aol.com
>
> Thought you would all be interested to hear this.
>
> I had a phone call this lunchtime from Ray Bedford, part-time stores manager
at the UK factory. He stated there would be a press release this afternoon about
the future of EMIL, and then tried to tell me what it was.
>
> At this point I stopped him, and said I would read it on the Flyer website, at
the same time as everyone else - I have no idea what is to be said.
>
> Well, I've just logged on and had a look at:
>
>www.flyer.co.uk
>www.pilotweb.co.uk
>www.todayspilot.co.uk
>
> and guess what - no news!
>I think the EMIL customer attitude still prevails....
>
>chus,
>dave
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Redux/Araldite 420 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
Rocketman wrote:
> Does anyone know if it is available from the US, or maybe an
> alternative product? Thanks in advance...
I've used Aeropoxy's structural ES6279 adhesive for total satisfaction so far and
doesn't require a 2nd morgage. Not for critical structural usage, as in areas
like cockpit or fuselage bonding w/o knowing it's similar stuff, of course.
It's faster cure, minimal sag without thickening flox, and easy to use in even
tiny quatities with a 50/50 mix you can do visually.
In musing over the posts about Ampreg and the PFA, for anyone under the thumb of
authority: you can buy green epoxy tinting dye to add to this glue. :-)
Reg,
Fred F.
Rocketman wrote:
Does anyone know if it is available from the US, or maybe an
alternative product? Thanks in advance...
I've used Aeropoxy's structural ES6279 adhesive for total satisfaction so far and
doesn't require a 2nd morgage. Not for critical structural usage, as in areas
likecockpit or fuselage bonding w/o knowing it's similar stuff, of course.
It's faster cure, minimal sagwithoutthickening flox, and easy to use in even tiny
quatities with a 50/50 mix you can do visually.
In musing over the posts about Ampreg and the PFA, for anyone under the thumb of
authority: you can buy green epoxy tinting dye to add to this glue. :-)
Reg,
Fred F.
Message 13
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| Subject: | What Future for Europa Customers |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DaveBuzz@aol.com
Ray,
So that email was put out under false pretences... You couldn't even put your
name to it and, using Neville's email address (because you are not a list subscriber),
implied it came from someone we could trust.
At this time a final show of honesty to your customers would have sufficed. Will
you ever learn anything.
Dave bosomworth
Disgusted of Surrey
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Neville Eyre" <neville@europa-aircraft.com>
>
>Hi All'
>That last message was not from me, Ray wrote it !
>Cheers,
>Nev.
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | What future for Europa Customers |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
Nevllle/Ray have written:
> Europa are now in administraton - the administrator wishes to seek out
> interested parties who may wish to buy the company.
I infer that "administration" is something akin to USA bankruptcy (Chap. 11
?), (Chap. 7?), insolvancy (?).
Can anyone with knowledge of the legalities enlighten our group?
Surely "administration" must include some necessary filings or public record
(?).
Fred
A194
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: What Future for Europa Customers |
--> Europa-List message posted by: NevEyre@aol.com
Hi Dave,
I am writing this from home, I had to leave work before I thumped Ray [ AKA
Wilson's Weasel].He used my computer, and replied to you without my knowledge.
He is trying to shift the blame for his pittiful performance, from himself.
It is true, the level of stock is low at the moment, but as most all of the
builders have discovered over the last year or so, he really doesn't give a
damn whether any of you ever got their parts.He knew he could get away with being
crap, because he and Keith go back a long time..........his loyalty is only
to himself......... and now it seems that Keith may not be around to save him,
he is trying to make out he always had the builders interest at heart, and he
was only following orders ?
I just wanted to put the record straight.
Cheers,
Nev.
Message 16
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| Subject: | What future for Europa Customers |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
"I infer that "administration" is something akin to USA bankruptcy (Chap. 11
?), (Chap. 7?), insolvancy (?).
Can anyone with knowledge of the legalities enlighten our group?
Surely "administration" must include some necessary filings or public
record"
Sure, Fred. A bit of background: I used to live in the US so I've some
familiarity with your system, and I've been involved in a company that's
gone bust over here (not my fault, I hasten to add, I was a creditor!) so I
know ours only too well.
Chapter 11 is a close analogy.
In summary, when a company cannot pay its debts it can apply for
receivership or one-or-more of its creditors can apply for receivership. A
petition is heard in the High Court and if the judge grants the petition, he
appoints the Official Receiver. The company is then said to be 'in
receivership' or 'in administration', the shareholders (mostly Keith Wilson
in this case) lose everything, and the receiver has total control of the
assets. It is his legal duty to get the best value he can for those assets,
and to pay the creditors equally a number of pence in the pound (i.e. if he
raises GBP150k against a debt of GBP300k, he will pay 50p in the pound).
There may be 'preferential creditors' (usually the Inland Revenue, but I
dont believe that's the case here) who get first call on the money, and
often grab all of it.
So, the receiver now owns Europa Management International Ltd. He can
continue to run the company and find a single buyer for all the assets (the
stock, the demonstrators, the goodwill, the Intellectual Property, etc.) or
break them up and sell them piecemeal.
Putting a finger in the air, the most likely resolution is that someone will
now buy all the assets, retain those staff they choose, and resume trading
with a clean sheet. The existing creditors will get a percentage of what
they're owed (leaving an unpaid balance which can in turn drive indebted
suppliers into administration), but "New Europa Aircraft Company" will not
have the debt burden hanging over them.
We as builders will lose the investment we have made in a 'build support
contract' with EMIL (which is included in your kit price). Whether NEAC
chooses to support us for a nominal fee or charges a more commercial rate is
up to NEAC. Obviously that decision will affect individuals' view of NEAC
and their willingness to buy their firewall-forwards from them, for example.
The sharp-minded will recognise that an unscrupulous individual could call
in the receivers and then buy the assets and start again with a clean sheet.
This is called 'doing a Phoenix', but I dont believe it is what is
happening here.
We must now wait and see what happens while the legal process makes its
usual laborious progress. A fair estimate would be that a resolution of the
situation and restoration of parts shipping will take 3-6 months (unless the
receiver chooses to continue trading, buying stock off suppliers with new
funds received for orders, which is quite possible). My advice would be to
get on with your building with what you have and keep an eye on proceedings.
One thing I would like to say is that in my opinion this could be a very
good step forward for the Europa type. We are going to get an impossible
situation resolved and there is now the opportunity for the type to continue
production and some of the improvements in the pipeline to be realised.
Unfortunately it's going to be pain in the meantime for most of us, and my
heart goes out to those poor souls who've paid good money and received
nothing - I hope NEAC can do something for them, and I hope that action can
be taken against those responsible for the mess at EMIL to recover more
funds for them. Such action is in the receiver's remit, I believe.
Sorry the above is long-winded, but I hope it's useful to those who have no
experience of how such things work in the UK.
Kind regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Tail done
Standard XS wings with mods underway
CM ready for installation in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)
1200 build hours to date
Intended fit:
Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop
Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred R. Klein
Subject: Europa-List: What future for Europa Customers
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
Nevllle/Ray have written:
> Europa are now in administraton - the administrator wishes to seek out
> interested parties who may wish to buy the company.
I infer that "administration" is something akin to USA bankruptcy (Chap. 11
?), (Chap. 7?), insolvancy (?).
Can anyone with knowledge of the legalities enlighten our group?
Surely "administration" must include some necessary filings or public record
(?).
Fred
A194
Message 17
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| Subject: | What future for Europa Customers |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "G-IANI" <g-iani@ntlworld.com>
If you have not seen Jeremy's note it is well worth reading.
Well done Jeremy! a good clear explanation.
Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear
Europa Club Assistant Mods Rep
e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk
Message 18
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
Dear Mr. Wilson,
Recent postings on the Europa-matronics webchat are deteriorating into chaos
and a noted lack of civility in the absence of a definitive statement from
Europa management on the current status and future of the company.
Silence risks both the value of the Europa brand as well as the good will of
over a thousand customers. All is not lost...yet.
Now is not the time for heads to be inserted in the sand. We live in the
information age...provide some!
Whatever the challenges facing the company, its management, or you
personally, kindly issue a comprehensive statement...including whatever
uncertainties there may be in the present moment...so that the Europa
community can assess their impact and adjust to reality.
Certainly this would be the right (and prudent) thing to do.
Fred
A194
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: What future for Europa Customers |
--> Europa-List message posted by: n3eu@comcast.net
Fred R. Klein wrote:
>>Europa are now in administraton - the administrator wishes to seek out
>>interested parties who may wish to buy the company.
>
> I infer that "administration" is something akin to USA bankruptcy (Chap. 11
> ?), (Chap. 7?), insolvancy (?).
>
> Can anyone with knowledge of the legalities enlighten our group?
Here's also an informative article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1578896.stm
Is the BBC but doesn't involve matters inimical to the Prime Minister and thus
maybe even accurate!
Reg,
Fred F.
Fred R. Klein wrote:
Europa are now in administraton - the administrator wishes to seek out
interested parties who may wish to buy the company.
I infer that "administration" is something akin to USA bankruptcy (Chap. 11
?), (Chap. 7?), insolvancy (?).
Can anyone with knowledge of the legalities enlighten our group?
Here's also an informative article:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1578896.stm
Is the BBC but doesn't involve matters inimical to the Prime Minister and thus
maybe even accurate!
Reg,
Fred F.
Message 20
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| Subject: | What future for Europa Customers |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" <alan@kestrel-insurance.com>
Hi Guys
All this is good stuff and great reading, but right now VERY
unhelpful(with the exception of Jeremy's last). Please can everyone be
quiet and allow the key parties to get on with the work of trying to
salvage something from the mess. The best thing we can all do is remain
out of it until an announcement is made, which should be very shortly I
think. Hopefully these will be the last words on the subject for a
little while, but to answer the point about a company being put into
Administration, yes its like chapt 11 in the USA. It has the effect of
putting a hold on things and preventing them getting any worse whilst a
solution is worked out. So once again please be patient. The product is
far too good to be allowed to simply die. Thank you. Alan B & Jeremy
Pratt
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred R.
Klein
Subject: Europa-List: What future for Europa Customers
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein"
--> <fklein@orcasonline.com>
Nevllle/Ray have written:
> Europa are now in administraton - the administrator wishes to seek out
> interested parties who may wish to buy the company.
I infer that "administration" is something akin to USA bankruptcy (Chap.
11 ?), (Chap. 7?), insolvancy (?).
Can anyone with knowledge of the legalities enlighten our group?
Surely "administration" must include some necessary filings or public
record (?).
Fred
A194
==
direct advertising on the Matronics Forums.
==
==
==
Message 21
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| Subject: | What future for Europa Customers |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Grant" <peter@us-eurolink.co.uk>
Administration is the stage before Receivership. It means that the
management is replaced by an Appointee - the Administrator (normally
appointed by the Bank). The Company is still trading 'normally' at this
point without protection against its creditors, with the normal purpose of
being sold as a going concern.
The next stage 'up' is Receivership, in which again an Appointee is made -
The Receiver - who is charged with making the best deal he can on behalf of
the Creditors. Trouble is, the creditors are ranked, first comes the
Government (Income Tax, VAT etc) then the bank and other secured loans. The
'ordinary' creditor comes way down the list and may get pennies in the pound
and even then, only after several years.
When the Receiver has finished with it, a Liquidator is appointed (now you
know how the big Accountancy practices make their money!) and he sells off
what is left!
I've been through this before and the whole process can take many years, so
don't get excited just yet!
Regards
Peter Grant
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
10 The Sidings, Horncastle LN9 5UA
Tel: 01507 523180 Fax: 01507 525888 Mobile: 07774 923160
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This email is intended for the sole use of
the addressee. If you have received this email in error, please contact the
sender and delete the message. We accept no liability for misuse of this
email however caused. Outgoing emails are automatically checked by Norton
Anti-Virus.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Davey
Subject: RE: Europa-List: What future for Europa Customers
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
"I infer that "administration" is something akin to USA bankruptcy (Chap. 11
?), (Chap. 7?), insolvancy (?).
Can anyone with knowledge of the legalities enlighten our group?
Surely "administration" must include some necessary filings or public
record"
Sure, Fred. A bit of background: I used to live in the US so I've some
familiarity with your system, and I've been involved in a company that's
gone bust over here (not my fault, I hasten to add, I was a creditor!) so I
know ours only too well.
Chapter 11 is a close analogy.
In summary, when a company cannot pay its debts it can apply for
receivership or one-or-more of its creditors can apply for receivership. A
petition is heard in the High Court and if the judge grants the petition, he
appoints the Official Receiver. The company is then said to be 'in
receivership' or 'in administration', the shareholders (mostly Keith Wilson
in this case) lose everything, and the receiver has total control of the
assets. It is his legal duty to get the best value he can for those assets,
and to pay the creditors equally a number of pence in the pound (i.e. if he
raises GBP150k against a debt of GBP300k, he will pay 50p in the pound).
There may be 'preferential creditors' (usually the Inland Revenue, but I
dont believe that's the case here) who get first call on the money, and
often grab all of it.
So, the receiver now owns Europa Management International Ltd. He can
continue to run the company and find a single buyer for all the assets (the
stock, the demonstrators, the goodwill, the Intellectual Property, etc.) or
break them up and sell them piecemeal.
Putting a finger in the air, the most likely resolution is that someone will
now buy all the assets, retain those staff they choose, and resume trading
with a clean sheet. The existing creditors will get a percentage of what
they're owed (leaving an unpaid balance which can in turn drive indebted
suppliers into administration), but "New Europa Aircraft Company" will not
have the debt burden hanging over them.
We as builders will lose the investment we have made in a 'build support
contract' with EMIL (which is included in your kit price). Whether NEAC
chooses to support us for a nominal fee or charges a more commercial rate is
up to NEAC. Obviously that decision will affect individuals' view of NEAC
and their willingness to buy their firewall-forwards from them, for example.
The sharp-minded will recognise that an unscrupulous individual could call
in the receivers and then buy the assets and start again with a clean sheet.
This is called 'doing a Phoenix', but I dont believe it is what is
happening here.
We must now wait and see what happens while the legal process makes its
usual laborious progress. A fair estimate would be that a resolution of the
situation and restoration of parts shipping will take 3-6 months (unless the
receiver chooses to continue trading, buying stock off suppliers with new
funds received for orders, which is quite possible). My advice would be to
get on with your building with what you have and keep an eye on proceedings.
One thing I would like to say is that in my opinion this could be a very
good step forward for the Europa type. We are going to get an impossible
situation resolved and there is now the opportunity for the type to continue
production and some of the improvements in the pipeline to be realised.
Unfortunately it's going to be pain in the meantime for most of us, and my
heart goes out to those poor souls who've paid good money and received
nothing - I hope NEAC can do something for them, and I hope that action can
be taken against those responsible for the mess at EMIL to recover more
funds for them. Such action is in the receiver's remit, I believe.
Sorry the above is long-winded, but I hope it's useful to those who have no
experience of how such things work in the UK.
Kind regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Tail done
Standard XS wings with mods underway
CM ready for installation in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)
1200 build hours to date
Intended fit:
Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop
Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred R. Klein
Subject: Europa-List: What future for Europa Customers
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
Nevllle/Ray have written:
> Europa are now in administraton - the administrator wishes to seek out
> interested parties who may wish to buy the company.
I infer that "administration" is something akin to USA bankruptcy (Chap. 11
?), (Chap. 7?), insolvancy (?).
Can anyone with knowledge of the legalities enlighten our group?
Surely "administration" must include some necessary filings or public record
(?).
Fred
A194
Message 22
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
Thanks.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Andy Draper" <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Ivoprop
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Andy Draper"
<andy@europa-aircraft.com>
>
> Hi Duncan,
>
> The IVO prop was a VP version, using a rod within the hollow blade to
twist it at about 70% radius. We found early on that it was poor so it was
abandoned.
>
> Regards
> Andy
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ami
> McFadyean
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ivoprop
>
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ami McFadyean"
<ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
>
> Andy,
> Did you ever get to try the VP version of the Ivo?
> I seem to remember that it broke down when you initially tried. Was there
a
> follow-up?
>
> Rgds.,
> Duncan McF
> PS Not a fan of Ivoprops.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Andy Draper" <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Ivoprop
>
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Andy Draper"
> <andy@europa-aircraft.com>
> >
> > Dear Sven,
> >
> > We tried the IVO PROP on G-YURO with its 912 engine and the performance
> was notably poor. The cooling efficiencey on the ground also suffered.
> Unless the prop has changed radically in the years since, I would not
> recommend its use on a Europa.
> >
> > regards
> > Andy Draper
> >
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Sven den
> > Boer
> > To: europa-list@matronics.com
> > Subject: Europa-List: Ivoprop
> >
> >
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Sven den Boer"
> <svendenboer@quicknet.nl>
> >
> > Is there anyone who uses an Ivoprop in combination witha a 912 S fitted
> Eruopa xs Trigear?
> > Love to see any experience with prop and company.
> >
> > Cheers,
> >
> > Sven den Boer
> > PH-SBR
> >
> >
>
>
Message 23
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard Iddon" <riddon@sent.com>
Svein,
I have used Kevin's method. I didn't keep a record but seem to recall
that around 26in. was the correct length. It is relatively easy to fit
one then take it off and adjust the length if too long. I used 6 loops,
three each side. To fit the second and third loops is a little
difficult but what I did was to fix a strong point to the floor beneath
fuselage, hook the loop over the engine frame then use a ratchet tie
down strap fixed to the strong point to tension the loop before slipping
it back over the nose gear.
I understand that if your nose starts to go 'soft' again, it is
possible to just add an extra loop each side to stiffen it up rather
than have to take everything off and start again.
Certainly much easier than the original method.
Hope this helps.
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sidsel &
Svein Johnsen
Subject: Europa-List: Tri-gear bungee
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen"
<sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>
Hi, all,
In "The Europa Flyer", issue #40, Kevin Pilcher describes his method for
fitting the bungee cord for the tri-gear's nose wheel. I have heard,
however, that the lengths stated in the article (4 off lengths of 16
inches,
1 off of 18 inches) are incorrect, and would therefore appreciate if
anyone
knows the correct lengths (I do not have Kevin's contact phone/e-mail,
but
if anyone does, please let me know OFF-LIST since he has not listed this
information in the online Club membership list).
Thanks!
Regards,
Svein K. Johnsen
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: damage control |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "bryan allsop" <info@blackballclub.fsnet.co.uk>
I am afraid that "Dear Mr Wilson" will have no say from now on. He is out of
the company and keeping a low profile because of his potential liabilities.
The company is in professional hands now. From second hand experience I
would guess that moves are already taking place to create a sound working
business from the remains of the old one.
The only constructive action that any of us can take now is to shut up and
keep out of it. Scare mongering and gossip will only make things worse.
Meanwhile, a mega-rich Europal clad in white, and riding a large Arab
stallion could constructively gallop in overnight and put the whole thing
right.
This is my way of ageeing with you Fred. Regards Bryan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
Subject: Europa-List: damage control
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein"
<fklein@orcasonline.com>
>
> Dear Mr. Wilson,
>
> Recent postings on the Europa-matronics webchat are deteriorating into
chaos
> and a noted lack of civility in the absence of a definitive statement from
> Europa management on the current status and future of the company.
>
> Silence risks both the value of the Europa brand as well as the good will
of
> over a thousand customers. All is not lost...yet.
>
> Now is not the time for heads to be inserted in the sand. We live in the
> information age...provide some!
>
> Whatever the challenges facing the company, its management, or you
> personally, kindly issue a comprehensive statement...including whatever
> uncertainties there may be in the present moment...so that the Europa
> community can assess their impact and adjust to reality.
>
> Certainly this would be the right (and prudent) thing to do.
>
> Fred
> A194
>
>
Message 25
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
>> Meanwhile, a mega-rich Europal clad in white, and riding a large Arab
stallion could constructively gallop in overnight and put the whole
thing right.
Come now, surely he'd fly in!
:)
Tony
Message 26
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 07/27/04 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 27/07/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>You could add to the 100,000 GBP the customers who like me who have
>delayed placing any orders until all the dust settles. Mine will go out as
>soon as I hear some good news.
>
>I hope you are taking note Keith.
>
>Paul Atkinson
Paul
he won't hear, his head is firmly in the sand. With any luck it will choke him
Graham
Message 27
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--> Europa-List message posted by: <beecho@beecho.org>
Ah Tony
">> Meanwhile, a mega-rich Europal clad in white, and riding a large
Arab
stallion could constructively gallop in overnight and put the whole
thing right.
Come now, surely he'd fly in!
:)
Tony"
Since you know how the white knight would travel, perhaps you are that
knight!
Tom
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony
Krzyzewski
Subject: RE: Europa-List: damage control
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
>> Meanwhile, a mega-rich Europal clad in white, and riding a large Arab
stallion could constructively gallop in overnight and put the whole
thing right.
Come now, surely he'd fly in!
:)
Tony
==
==
==
==
Message 28
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 07/27/04 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 27/07/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>If I was looking for an alternative supply of epoxy resin I would look at
>the German equivalent to Ampreg
So would I!
It's used by the German glider builders, (no one is better than they are)
PRF sell it in UK
resin RS-L285 hardener RS-H285,6 or 7
They don't say the manufacturer is it Scheufler?
Graham
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 24 Msgs - 07/27/04 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 27/07/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>I used to use 20 litre plastic containers from the USA. There are some
>concerns about static with larger containers and I know some years back
>there was a fuel fire whilst refuelling a Europa.
this was from a metal jerrycan. plastic funnel.
Graham
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: What Future for Europa Customers |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Keith Hartley" <tarnish7@iprimus.com.au>
Hello sweetheart,
Here's some goodies - I'll forward them to you in best reading order. No.1
is from Neville, who's the Good Guy engineer at Europa I spoke about last
night...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Neville Eyre" <neville@europa-aircraft.com>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: What Future for Europa Customers
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Neville Eyre"
<neville@europa-aircraft.com>
>
>
> Ray Bedford said no such thing
>
> Ray Bedford rang Dave out of respect for the Europa owners to advse
him/them of current events, and that statement would be posted later that
day.
>
> As Dave point blank refused to talk to Ray he never found out what that
statement was
>
> It would have been as follows:
> Europa are now in administraton - the administrator wishes to seek out
interested parties who may wish to buy the company.
>
> Also, please be aware that Europa has had zero money to spend on parts
therefore has an empty storeroom. This has been the case for nearly six
months. As an employee of Europa Ray could hardly tell everyone the realty
as he quite clearly had/has his own fuure employment to consider. Loyalty
is a very rare comodity - even if it does turn out to be misguided.
>
> A company will only ever be as good as its Leaders ?????????
>
> Dont shoot messangers
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of
> DaveBuzz@aol.com
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: What Future for Europa Customers
>
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: DaveBuzz@aol.com
>
> Thought you would all be interested to hear this.
>
> I had a phone call this lunchtime from Ray Bedford, part-time stores
manager at the UK factory. He stated there would be a press release this
afternoon about the future of EMIL, and then tried to tell me what it was.
>
> At this point I stopped him, and said I would read it on the Flyer
website, at the same time as everyone else - I have no idea what is to be
said.
>
> Well, I've just logged on and had a look at:
>
> www.flyer.co.uk
> www.pilotweb.co.uk
> www.todayspilot.co.uk
>
> and guess what - no news!
> I think the EMIL customer attitude still prevails....
>
> chus,
> dave
>
>
Message 31
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| Subject: | And pigs will fly (an Europa) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alexander Kaarsberg" <kaarsber@terra.com.br>
What-oh, surely you've heard of Pegasus Europeensis??
>>>> Meanwhile, a mega-rich Europal clad in white, and riding a large Arab
stallion could constructively gallop in overnight and put the whole
thing right.
Come now, surely he'd fly in!
Tony
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Redux/Araldite 420 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Don Pettey <don-glasstile@cox.net>
I just recieved two tins of Redux last week.
Redux/Ampreg 420 is now called Epibond 420.
I I got it from Huntsman @818-247-6210
Los Angeles
Don Pettey
A188
cockpit module goin in
On Tuesday, July 27, 2004, at 11:27 AM, Rocketman wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman <topglock@cox.net>
>
> Does anyone know if it is available from the US, or maybe an
> alternative
> product? Thanks in advance...
>
> --
> Jeff A055
> Http://www.n55xs.com
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 33
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| Subject: | Re: Redux/Araldite 420 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Don Pettey <don-glasstile@cox.net>
whoops!
I just gave the number for Huntsman off of the can. But the pack slip
reminds me that it was
Graco Supply in TX 817-535-3200. I bought two tins (4 altogether
w/hardener) for $380 total.
It says both Epibond and Araldite on the label
Don Pettey
A188
On Tuesday, July 27, 2004, at 07:01 PM, DJGeldermann wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "DJGeldermann"
> <djgeldermann@cox.net>
>
> Jeff,
> John Hurst referred me to a place called Huntsman (1-800-367-8793) in
> California that sells it as Epe-Bond 420, the equivalent of Redux 420
> (not
> sure of the spelling). They only sell it by the case (6 quart kits)
> for
> $1,003.04 plus hazardous material shipping. There are two of us in
> northern
> Virginia that each need 2 quarts. If anyone else on the east cost is
> interested we'll split a case three ways.
> Dan Geldermann
> A-139
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Rocketman" <topglock@cox.net>
> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> Subject: Europa-List: Redux/Araldite 420
>
>
>> --> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman <topglock@cox.net>
>>
>> Does anyone know if it is available from the US, or maybe an
>> alternative
>> product? Thanks in advance...
>>
>> --
>> Jeff A055
>> Http://www.n55xs.com
>>
>>
>
>
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> _-
> =======================================================================
> >
>
>
Message 34
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve & Eileen Genotte" <genottes@wi.rr.com>
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of bryan allsop
Subject: Re: Europa-List: damage control
* Europa-List message posted by: "bryan allsop"
<info@blackballclub.fsnet.co.uk>
Meanwhile, a mega-rich Europal clad in white, and riding a large Arab
stallion could constructively gallop in overnight and put the whole thing
right.
Umm, you mean "Arabian stallion", yes? The image of a super-rich European
riding to the rescue on the back of a randy, hot-to-trot gent from the
Middle East would be a tough one to sell to the Financial Times. :)
Steve "El Roto" G.
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