---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 08/18/04: 29 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:24 AM - Re: Ripples in the wing surface (Jeremy Davey) 2. 12:49 AM - Re: How Much Paint? (Annalights@aol.com) 3. 05:27 AM - Re: Ripples in the wing surface (Paul McAllister) 4. 06:47 AM - Paint opinioin (Dave Anderson) 5. 06:56 AM - Re: Fitting Doors (Al Stills) 6. 07:07 AM - Re: Ripples in the wing surface (Jeremy Davey) 7. 07:25 AM - Re: Mod 65 Finger Brakes Master Cylinder Supplier (David Buckley) 8. 07:48 AM - Finger brakes (Peter Field) 9. 08:26 AM - Re: Finger brakes (G-IANI) 10. 09:09 AM - Re: Finger brakes (Richard Holder) 11. 09:20 AM - Re: Finger brakes (Alan Burrows) 12. 09:28 AM - Re: EIS versus Steam Gauges (Leo J. Corbalis) 13. 09:36 AM - Open Letter to John Hurst (DuaneFamly@aol.com) 14. 09:38 AM - Re: Finger brakes (KARL HEINDL) 15. 09:38 AM - Re: EIS versus Steam Gauges (DuaneFamly@aol.com) 16. 10:52 AM - Re: EIS versus Steam Gauges (KARL HEINDL) 17. 11:15 AM - Re: Ripples in the wing surface (Paul McAllister) 18. 12:02 PM - Re: BID supplier (Paul Stewart) 19. 01:10 PM - Re: Ripples in the wing surface (Jeremy Davey) 20. 01:17 PM - Re: Finger brakes (Steve Pitt) 21. 01:57 PM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 08/17/04 (Graham Singleton) 22. 02:01 PM - Re: BID supplier (Dennis Lowe) 23. 02:04 PM - Re: Finger brakes (J. R. Jones) 24. 02:04 PM - Re: Finger brakes (Ian Swankie) 25. 03:33 PM - Re: BID supplier (Paul Stewart) 26. 04:10 PM - Re: EIS versus Steam Gauges (Cliff Shaw) 27. 05:55 PM - Re: Ripples in the wing surface (Rocketman) 28. 07:45 PM - Ripples in the wing surface (Paul McAllister) 29. 08:57 PM - Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 08/17/04 (DuaneFamly@aol.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:24:15 AM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Ripples in the wing surface --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Paul, A few thoughts... If this was a g-loading issue, would it be ripples or cracks? Also, that would need to be negative G (unrelated question, if youre inverted, does that count as positive G??). Has your wing been subject to any heating that might distort that surface, as opposed to G-loadings - e.g. on a trailer, or stored in the 'dive' position near a heat source? Or could it simply be ripples in the paint that you haven't noticed before? Can you pull the aileron pushrod and pop a boroscope in to check the inside surface? Regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1200 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul McAllister Subject: Europa-List: Ripples in the wing surface --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Hi All, I have noticed some ripples in my XS wings on the underneath of one wing. It is near the flap between the outrigger and the middle flap hinge. There are 7 of them in parallel, quite wavy and about 6~8 inches long. They are not quite parallel to the spar and appear to have not relationship with rib positions. I am quite certain that the aircraft has not been subjected to any excessive G forces. Has anyone seen anything like this. ? Paul ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:49:45 AM PST US From: Annalights@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: How Much Paint? --> Europa-List message posted by: Annalights@aol.com Jeff, For colour I used less than 1 gallon of Aerodur C21 colour plus hardener and thinners. 5 litre can as we have over here (just over 1 gal) and still have some left over. Hope this helps Pat GPATZ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:27:07 AM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ripples in the wing surface --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Hi, Well actually the problem is solved. These ripples occurred from the wings sitting on the trailer. There were a couple even larger "dings" in the wing top surface. I brought the wings home from the painters last night and put them on the aircraft and in the hour I was there the surfaces had relaxed almost back to where they should be. I am hoping that a few hours in the sun will have them looking good as new. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Ripples in the wing surface > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > > Paul, > > A few thoughts... > > If this was a g-loading issue, would it be ripples or cracks? Also, that > would need to be negative G (unrelated question, if youre inverted, does > that count as positive G??). > > Has your wing been subject to any heating that might distort that surface, > as opposed to G-loadings - e.g. on a trailer, or stored in the 'dive' > position near a heat source? > > Or could it simply be ripples in the paint that you haven't noticed before? > > Can you pull the aileron pushrod and pop a boroscope in to check the inside > surface? > > Regards, > Jeremy > > Jeremy Davey > Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA > Tail done > Standard XS wings with mods underway > CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) > 1200 build hours to date > Intended fit: > Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop > Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul McAllister > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Ripples in the wing surface > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" > > > Hi All, > > I have noticed some ripples in my XS wings on the underneath of one wing. > It is near the flap between the outrigger and the middle flap hinge. There > are 7 of them in parallel, quite wavy and about 6~8 inches long. They are > not quite parallel to the spar and appear to have not relationship with rib > positions. I am quite certain that the aircraft has not been subjected to > any excessive G forces. > > Has anyone seen anything like this. ? > > Paul > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:47:09 AM PST US From: "Dave Anderson" Subject: Europa-List: Paint opinioin --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dave Anderson" Speaking as a person who painted his airplane (typing as a person who painted, really!) I would advise not to get cheap when making the decision of what paint to use. You have a big investment in the airplane and it needs to be protected. Since I also had to repaint my entire airplane due to using a paint that was defective - but still expensive - I think I can add more information here. If you think painting it is a hard and long job, let me tell you that REPAINTING it is HUGE and ENDLESS job. You do not want to go cheap, then turn around and have to do it again. I used what the local glider painting expert uses - PPG concept. The difference between that acrylic urethane and the cheaper ones will be seen in the long run - durability. I hope to be 20 years down the road and still not coming anywhere close to repainting the airplane. The local painter, who is well known in the glider community for composite work and paint uses the following for composite airplanes: PPG K36 acrylic primer - wet sanded to a very smooth finish PPG DP40 epoxy primer sealer - gray green for darker color UV protection (not intended to sand, but able to fix runs, etc. PPG Concept base white acrylic urethane top coat (2 coats) - white to be as cool as possible for the composite structure. I am very pleased with the results so far. I will write again in 20 years to give everyone an update! Dave A227 Mini U2 227 hours TT Still looking for a cabin heater solution... ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:56:29 AM PST US From: "Al Stills" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fitting Doors --> Europa-List message posted by: "Al Stills" Jim Thanks for the info. I adjusted the hinges upward approximately 2 MM to get door to set down correct. Also have to shave about 2mm from the top of the door to "refit" it to fit. Al Stills A095 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:07:05 AM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Ripples in the wing surface --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Interesting - was that the paint still being soft, or the substrate distorting? What were the local temps? Regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1200 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul McAllister Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ripples in the wing surface --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Hi, Well actually the problem is solved. These ripples occurred from the wings sitting on the trailer. There were a couple even larger "dings" in the wing top surface. I brought the wings home from the painters last night and put them on the aircraft and in the hour I was there the surfaces had relaxed almost back to where they should be. I am hoping that a few hours in the sun will have them looking good as new. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Ripples in the wing surface > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > > Paul, > > A few thoughts... > > If this was a g-loading issue, would it be ripples or cracks? Also, that > would need to be negative G (unrelated question, if youre inverted, does > that count as positive G??). > > Has your wing been subject to any heating that might distort that surface, > as opposed to G-loadings - e.g. on a trailer, or stored in the 'dive' > position near a heat source? > > Or could it simply be ripples in the paint that you haven't noticed before? > > Can you pull the aileron pushrod and pop a boroscope in to check the inside > surface? > > Regards, > Jeremy > > Jeremy Davey > Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA > Tail done > Standard XS wings with mods underway > CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) > 1200 build hours to date > Intended fit: > Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop > Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul McAllister > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Ripples in the wing surface > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" > > > Hi All, > > I have noticed some ripples in my XS wings on the underneath of one wing. > It is near the flap between the outrigger and the middle flap hinge. There > are 7 of them in parallel, quite wavy and about 6~8 inches long. They are > not quite parallel to the spar and appear to have not relationship with rib > positions. I am quite certain that the aircraft has not been subjected to > any excessive G forces. > > Has anyone seen anything like this. ? > > Paul > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:38 AM PST US From: "David Buckley" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 65 Finger Brakes Master Cylinder Supplier --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Buckley" The original monowheel master cylinders were available from Kart Komponents, in High Wycombe, UK (if there still there_. We made our Trike's fingerbrakes from a modified pair. I'm away till next week, but send me an e-mail if you would like me to check - they wer eonly a couple of miles away. Cheers Dave -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Renshaw Subject: Europa-List: Mod 65 Finger Brakes Master Cylinder Supplier --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw Gidday, Well if you only want someone in the UK as a finger brake supplier, the answer is no. But, since the rest of the world is out here, the manufacturer is Jamar Performance in the US, the part no is a US2002X and the contact is Frank on jamar1@gte.net Web address is: http://jamarperformance.com/Default.htm Hope this helps. Reg Tony Renshaw Hope this helps. Reg Tony Renshaw Sydney Australia At 03:26 AM 8/17/2004, you wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "G-IANI" > >Can anyone, in the UK, help with a source for the Jamar brake master >cylinder used in the finger brake kit. > >I seem to remember that someone reported they had come across the supplier >Europa used by accident. > >This will make one builder happy for a while. > >Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear >Europa Club Assistant Mods Rep >e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk > or direct g-iani@ntlworld.coma supplier of the > > == == == == ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:38 AM PST US From: "Peter Field" Subject: Europa-List: Finger brakes --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Field" Has anybody experienced the springs in the cylinder of the finger brakes not being powerful enough to return the plunger assembly to its usual resting position after operation? If so, what is the cure? Peter Field Kit 566 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:26:53 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Finger brakes --> Europa-List message posted by: "G-IANI" Yes I have and so have a number of others. I have notes on what others have reported but no clear solution. Ivor Phillips (XS486) has converted his to use automatic transmission fluid. Karl Heidl has changed the rubbers for new but I believe with only limited success. I will be happy to be involved in any experimental work to try and solve the problem for good. I am sure Andy Draper will also advise if we have questions. Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear Europa Club Assistant Mods Rep e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Peter Field Subject: Europa-List: Finger brakes --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Field" Has anybody experienced the springs in the cylinder of the finger brakes not being powerful enough to return the plunger assembly to its usual resting position after operation? If so, what is the cure? Peter Field Kit 566 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 09:09:41 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Finger brakes From: Richard Holder --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Field" > > Has anybody experienced the springs in the cylinder of the finger brakes not > being powerful enough to return the plunger assembly to its usual resting > position after operation? > > If so, what is the cure? > > Peter Field > Kit 566 I bought one from Europa Florida. I took it apart - there was lots of swarf inside. It had also been mismachined, the end inch of the bores where the seals normally go when at "rest" were badly machined with the smooth part of the bore not reaching the open end. After some discussion (somewhat one way) with Jamar in the US, I got John Hurst to admit that there had been a faulty batch from Jamar and he sent me a replacement, which does not have the faulty machining. So undo the end plates (mind the piston and seals as they should come out) and look at the quality of the machining. When trying it, be sure that there is plenty of lubrication of the fluid that you are using (I have a litre of DOT 5 for sale !). Also remember that in use there will be considerable back-pressure from the callipers which will also help to push the master cylinder pistons back. Jamar have assured me that the seals in the twin master cylinder are suitable for use with ATF/Aviation Brake Fluid and as this is also the correct type for the callipers on the tri-gear it should be possible to use ATF/Av Brake Fluid rather than DOT 5 (which is why mine is for sale !) Having said all that I haven't yet installed mine - waiting for down time during the winter. Too nice to take it off-line at the moment ! I am getting used to my twin finger brakes built from the standard (originally floor mounted) master cylinders, with long extension levers. Richard Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS) Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax) Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile) SG12 8SH email : rholder@avnet.co.uk Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, High Cross PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford) ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:20:02 AM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Finger brakes --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" I have the same problem with my tri gear but just accept it as there is no apparent lack of braking ability. Also I don't feel the brakes are binding so how big a problem is it? Alan XS Trigear G-CBWF -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of G-IANI Subject: RE: Europa-List: Finger brakes --> Europa-List message posted by: "G-IANI" Yes I have and so have a number of others. I have notes on what others have reported but no clear solution. Ivor Phillips (XS486) has converted his to use automatic transmission fluid. Karl Heidl has changed the rubbers for new but I believe with only limited success. I will be happy to be involved in any experimental work to try and solve the problem for good. I am sure Andy Draper will also advise if we have questions. Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear Europa Club Assistant Mods Rep e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Peter Field Subject: Europa-List: Finger brakes --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Field" --> Has anybody experienced the springs in the cylinder of the finger brakes not being powerful enough to return the plunger assembly to its usual resting position after operation? If so, what is the cure? Peter Field Kit 566 == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:18 AM PST US From: "Leo J. Corbalis" Subject: Re: Europa-List: EIS versus Steam Gauges --> Europa-List message posted by: "Leo J. Corbalis" I have a Zodiac. I added an "ice cube" relay in paralell with the starter relay. This relay's NC contacts rated at 30 or 40 amps cuts off all the electronics when starting and then switches them back ON after the start circuit is denergized. Leo Corbalis ----- Original Message ----- From: "KARL HEINDL" Subject: Re: Europa-List: EIS versus Steam Gauges > --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" > > > Carl, > > > I have no idea what your problem might be. My EIS is wired to the main bus and that seems to work fine. In fact, it is important to me to be able to check the oil pressure when I crank the engine, especially after an oil change. > > > New users should also note that there is no extra charge for 3 extra wires, which allow you to have parallel switches for the push buttons. I use the left/right buttons on the MAC grip to scroll through the menus. > > > Karl > > > From: "Carl Pattinson" carl_p@ntlworld.com > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: EIS versus Steam Gauges > Date: Tue, 17 Aug 2004 14:56:46 +0100 > > -- Europa-List message posted by: "Carl Pattinson" carl_p@ntlworld.com > > If you fit an EIS just make sure you have a means to isolate it from the > main bus during startup. We have found that if the EIS is not switched off > on startup (starter cranking) the spikes often scramble the memory and > alarms which take about 20 mins to reset again. The worst thing is the reset > ususlly causes the screen contrast to go to zero and then everything becomes > impossible to ajust until the screen contrast can be increased (ie: the > display appears to go blank). > > I would suggest that a momentary disconnect button is fitted close to the > starter switch so that temporary isolation can be effected, though a more > sophisticated setup could include an isolator solenoid connected to the > starter solenoid. > > An manually operated isolator switch (which is what we have) is not a very > satisfactory solution as its very easy to leave it on during startup and > also easy to forget to turn it back on after startup. > > Our EIS is currently playing up in that the oil pressure and temp readings > are jumping about by a couple of degrees/ PSI. We suspect this is possibly a > prelude to the oil pressure sensor failing which I believe is a common > problem with Rotax 912 engines (unless someone else has a better > explanation). > > It would be nice to have the luxury of both analogue and digital readings > but not very practical. > > Otherwise the EIS is very good and we would recommend it.Ours is the Grand > Rapids version. > > Carl Dot > G-LABS > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Paddy Wigney" johnwigney@worldnet.att.net > To: rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us > Subject: Europa-List: EIS versus Steam Gauges > > > -- Europa-List message posted by: John Paddy Wigney > johnwigney@worldnet.att.net > > Time: 11:37:36 AM PST US > From: "Ronald J. Parigoris" rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us > Subject: Europa-List: EIS > Anyone ot there flying with just an EIS with no Engine Steam Gauges and > find it > acceptable?thx. Ron Parigoris > > Hi Ron, > > I have an EIS plus an analogue tacho and analogue manifold pressure. I > have found that the EIS is one of the best instruments in my panel - it is > rock-solid reliable. I would have no hesitation in removing the analogue > tacho since I find that I do not look at it because the EIS is so accurate > and refreshes very rapidly. (I would like to replace the tacho with a > Digitrak which I lust for.) I have all the engine variables set with alarms. > > If you have a constant speed prop, I recommend you have an analogue > manifold pressure gauge - it permits rapid and accurate power changes. If > you use the EIS to follow MP, you may have to change to a different page > which is a bit clunky. > > One final comment :- The fuel flow/totaliser option on the EIS is a good > investment. It is very accurate and provides great peace of mind on a long > trip by giving the calculated endurance. I just keep a healthy margin > between that number and my GPS ETE (estmated time enroute), there is no > mental arithmetic. Finally, I set my low fuel alarm at 4 gallons. > > Cheers, John > > N262WF, mono XS, 912S, Whirlwind C/S prop > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:36:55 AM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Open Letter to John Hurst --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com John, With all the problems that have come into your life with the floundering of the Europa Company, I do hope that you and yours have come through Hurricane Charlie with little or no damage. From all the news accounts, your area was one of the hardest hit by the storm. I have been through hurricanes in the past but have only been in big cities that could handle the brunt of these monsters. I cannot imagine what kind of damage was done to your area. Being on the West Coast of the U.S. I can't imagine that I could be of any help, but if any thoughts come to mind, please feel free to contact me. And I'm sure all the thoughts of the Europa community are with you. Mike Duane A207 Redding, California XS Conventional Gear ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:38:50 AM PST US From: "KARL HEINDL" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Finger brakes --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" Peter, My brake master cylinder has had the same problem as what you are describing. I replaced the separate seals with ones from the local car shop. This appeared to solve the problem, but the piston was still sticking now and again. A couple of days ago I took it all apart again to check the seals: they were still exactly the orignal size (I kept a new one separately for comparison). My conclusion is that the spring is too weak and/or the Dot5 is not a good lubricant. I solved the problem for the time being by adding a smaller diameter spring inside the existing ones; they are also a bit shorter. The handles now snap back very nicely in dry mode, just as I expected them to on day 1. I still have to fill/bleed the system to check it out properly. I would prefer to use one strong replacement spring. Karl From: Richard Holder rholder@avnet.co.uk Subject: Re: Europa-List: Finger brakes -- Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder rholder@avnet.co.uk -- Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Field" peter.field@hgfield.co.uk Has anybody experienced the springs in the cylinder of the finger brakes not being powerful enough to return the plunger assembly to its usual resting position after operation? If so, what is the cure? Peter Field Kit 566 I bought one from Europa Florida. I took it apart - there was lots of swarf inside. It had also been mismachined, the end inch of the bores where the seals normally go when at "rest" were badly machined with the smooth part of the bore not reaching the open end. After some discussion (somewhat one way) with Jamar in the US, I got John Hurst to admit that there had been a faulty batch from Jamar and he sent me a replacement, which does not have the faulty machining. So undo the end plates (mind the piston and seals as they should come out) and look at the quality of the machining. When trying it, be sure that there is plenty of lubrication of the fluid that you are using (I have a litre of DOT 5 for sale !). Also remember that in use there will be considerable back-pressure from the callipers which will also help to push the master cylinder pistons back. Jamar have assured me that the seals in the twin master cylinder are suitable for use with ATF/Aviation Brake Fluid and as this is also the correct type for the callipers on the tri-gear it should be possible to use ATF/Av Brake Fluid rather than DOT 5 (which is why mine is for sale !) Having said all that I haven't yet installed mine - waiting for down time during the winter. Too nice to take it off-line at the moment ! I am getting used to my twin finger brakes built from the standard (originally floor mounted) master cylinders, with long extension levers. Richard Richard F.W. Holder01279 842804 (POTS) Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax) Widford, Ware, Herts,07860 367423 (mobile) SG12 8SH email : rholder@avnet.co.uk Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, High Cross PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford) ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:38:54 AM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: EIS versus Steam Gauges --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com If a resistor and capacitor was added to the coil circuit you could build in a small time delay to insure no spikes get through. Mike Duane A207 Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Just about to put the top on but still finding little things to do before that. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:35 AM PST US From: "KARL HEINDL" Subject: RE: Europa-List: EIS versus Steam Gauges --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" Yes, that is correct, but I am only using the two for backward-forward. From: "Kevin Klinefelter" kevann@gte.net Subject: RE: Europa-List: EIS versus Steam Gauges -- Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" kevann@gte.net Karl, is that "three extra wires" the way you ordered the unit from Grand Rapids? Kevin -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of KARL HEINDL Subject: Re: Europa-List: EIS versus Steam Gauges -- Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" kheindl@msn.com Carl, I have no idea what your problem might be. My EIS is wired to the main bus and that seems to work fine. In fact, it is important to me to be able to check the oil pressure when I crank the engine, especially after an oil change. New users should also note that there is no extra charge for 3 extra wires, which allow you to have parallel switches for the push buttons. I use the left/right buttons on the MAC grip to scroll through the menus. Karl From: "Carl Pattinson" carl_p@ntlworld.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: EIS versus Steam Gauges -- Europa-List message posted by: "Carl Pattinson" carl_p@ntlworld.com If you fit an EIS just make sure you have a means to isolate it from the main bus during startup. We have found that if the EIS is not switched off on startup (starter cranking) the spikes often scramble the memory and alarms which take about 20 mins to reset again. The worst thing is the reset ususlly causes the screen contrast to go to zero and then everything becomes impossible to ajust until the screen contrast can be increased (ie: the display appears to go blank). I would suggest that a momentary disconnect button is fitted close to the starter switch so that temporary isolation can be effected, though a more sophisticated setup could include an isolator solenoid connected to the starter solenoid. An manually operated isolator switch (which is what we have) is not a very satisfactory solution as its very easy to leave it on during startup and also easy to forget to turn it back on after startup. Our EIS is currently playing up in that the oil pressure and temp readings are jumping about by a couple of degrees/ PSI. We suspect this is possibly a prelude to the oil pressure sensor failing which I believe is a common problem with Rotax 912 engines (unless someone else has a better explanation). It would be nice to have the luxury of both analogue and digital readings but not very practical. Otherwise the EIS is very good and we would recommend it.Ours is the Grand Rapids version. CarlDot G-LABS ----- Original Message ----- From: "JohnPaddy Wigney" johnwigney@worldnet.att.net Subject: Europa-List: EIS versus Steam Gauges -- Europa-List message posted by: JohnPaddy Wigney johnwigney@worldnet.att.net Time: 11:37:36 AM PST US From: "Ronald J. Parigoris" rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us Subject: Europa-List: EIS Anyone ot there flying with just an EIS with no Engine Steam Gauges and find it acceptable?thx. Ron Parigoris Hi Ron, I have an EIS plus an analogue tacho and analogue manifold pressure. I have found that the EIS is one of the best instruments in my panel - it is rock-solid reliable. I would have no hesitation in removing the analogue tacho since I find that I do not look at it because the EIS is so accurate and refreshes very rapidly. (I would like to replace the tacho with a Digitrak which I lust for.) I have all the engine variables set with alarms. If you have a constant speed prop, I recommend you have an analogue manifold pressure gauge - it permits rapid and accurate power changes. If you use the EIS to follow MP, you may have to change to a different page which is a bit clunky. One final comment :- The fuel flow/totaliser option on the EIS is a good investment. It is very accurate and provides great peace of mind on a long trip by giving the calculated endurance. I just keep a healthy margin between that number and my GPS ETE (estmated time enroute), there is no mental arithmetic. Finally, I set my low fuel alarm at 4 gallons. Cheers, John N262WF, mono XS, 912S, Whirlwind C/S prop ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:15:32 AM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ripples in the wing surface --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Jeremy, No, the area that distorted was not the area painted. It was on the trailer for 10 days in mild summer temperatures. The only thing I did different was to put a couple of towels to protect the wings and it made the wing holder extra tight. The added compression was obvious. To be honest, I very disappointed with my XS wings. I spent a lot of time finishing mine only to find once they were baked (140 f) that the fiberglass substrate underneath showed through. It I was to do it again (and I might) I would bake the wings first, re sand the primed surface and then paint it. Paul do not archive ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 12:02:26 PM PST US From: Paul Stewart Subject: Re: Europa-List: BID supplier --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart Fergus Kyle wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" > >Paul, > I just emailed them (thanks for the URL) and got the reply that the >BiD supplied for Europas came from Germany, in 100m rolls only and that they >would not stock it..................? >Ferg >A064 > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Paul Stewart" >To: >Subject: Re: Europa-List: BID supplier > > >| --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart >| >| Dennis >| >| I have just asked the same question of Skycraft in Lincs. The supply >| 92915 which is the BID cloth Europa use. Thei email address is >| SKYCRAFTLTD@aol.com tel 0870 7592723 or 01406 371779. >| >| >| Regards >| >| Paul >| >| G-GIDY >| >| >| >| >| >| >| > > > > How strange. I rang them Monday and ordered 5 m of 92125 BID cloth. They were happy to take the order and my credit card details ( but there again so was Ray) . There is a parcel waiting for me at the post office which I assume to be the BID. So I can't explain the response you got. Regards Paul ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:07 PM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Ripples in the wing surface --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Paul, Thanks for that info. I didn't realise one still had to bake the XS wings. If I bake mine, I'll be sure to do it before finishing. Cheers, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1200 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul McAllister Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ripples in the wing surface --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Jeremy, No, the area that distorted was not the area painted. It was on the trailer for 10 days in mild summer temperatures. The only thing I did different was to put a couple of towels to protect the wings and it made the wing holder extra tight. The added compression was obvious. To be honest, I very disappointed with my XS wings. I spent a lot of time finishing mine only to find once they were baked (140 f) that the fiberglass substrate underneath showed through. It I was to do it again (and I might) I would bake the wings first, re sand the primed surface and then paint it. Paul do not archive ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 01:17:14 PM PST US From: "Steve Pitt" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Finger brakes --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Pitt" Where can I get Dot5 from in the UK? Steve Pitt #403 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Holder" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Finger brakes > --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Field" > > > > Has anybody experienced the springs in the cylinder of the finger brakes not > > being powerful enough to return the plunger assembly to its usual resting > > position after operation? > > > > If so, what is the cure? > > > > Peter Field > > Kit 566 > > I bought one from Europa Florida. I took it apart - there was lots of swarf > inside. It had also been mismachined, the end inch of the bores where the > seals normally go when at "rest" were badly machined with the smooth part of > the bore not reaching the open end. > > After some discussion (somewhat one way) with Jamar in the US, I got John > Hurst to admit that there had been a faulty batch from Jamar and he sent me > a replacement, which does not have the faulty machining. > > So undo the end plates (mind the piston and seals as they should come out) > and look at the quality of the machining. > > When trying it, be sure that there is plenty of lubrication of the fluid > that you are using (I have a litre of DOT 5 for sale !). > > Also remember that in use there will be considerable back-pressure from the > callipers which will also help to push the master cylinder pistons back. > > Jamar have assured me that the seals in the twin master cylinder are > suitable for use with ATF/Aviation Brake Fluid and as this is also the > correct type for the callipers on the tri-gear it should be possible to use > ATF/Av Brake Fluid rather than DOT 5 (which is why mine is for sale !) > > Having said all that I haven't yet installed mine - waiting for down time > during the winter. Too nice to take it off-line at the moment ! I am getting > used to my twin finger brakes built from the standard (originally floor > mounted) master cylinders, with long extension levers. > > Richard > Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS) > Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax) > Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile) > SG12 8SH email : rholder@avnet.co.uk > Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, High Cross > PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford) > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 01:57:39 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 08/17/04 --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton At 23:56 17/08/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Ferg > >Go to Aircraft Spruce catalog page 30. The "Rutan Fiberglass Cloth" is a >good substitute for what Europa was sending us. I have used it and it works >very well. > >Cliff Shaw >1041 Euclid ave. Cliff It is the same , spec at least. Burt taught Ivan how to build airplanes, (taught me too) It's Interglas 92125, 2 by 2 twill, Rutan calls it BID, ordering number RA5177BID. The UNI is 92122, or RA5177 UNI. Graham ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 02:01:26 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: BID supplier From: Dennis Lowe --> Europa-List message posted by: Dennis Lowe Paul I have purchased some BID from Skycraft. The type number is 92125. It seems to be similar to the Europa supplied BID. Certainly the weight seems to be similar. Since I am only using it to finish off non structural parts it will be fine for what I need and may well be O.K for other layups but I guess this needs to be confirmed. You mentioned type 92915 in your original email.Was this a typo? thanks for the information. Dennis Lowe G-NHRJ On Wednesday, August 18, 2004, at 08:02 pm, Paul Stewart wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart > > > Fergus Kyle wrote: > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" >> >> Paul, >> I just emailed them (thanks for the URL) and got the reply >> that the >> BiD supplied for Europas came from Germany, in 100m rolls only and >> that they >> would not stock it..................? >> Ferg >> A064 >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Paul Stewart" >> To: >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: BID supplier >> >> >> | --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart >> >> | >> | Dennis >> | >> | I have just asked the same question of Skycraft in Lincs. The supply >> | 92915 which is the BID cloth Europa use. Thei email address is >> | SKYCRAFTLTD@aol.com tel 0870 7592723 or 01406 371779. >> | >> | >> | Regards >> | >> | Paul >> | >> | G-GIDY >> | >> | >> | >> | >> | >> | >> | >> >> >> >> > How strange. > > I rang them Monday and ordered 5 m of 92125 BID cloth. They were happy > to take the order and my credit card details ( but there again so was > Ray) . There is a parcel waiting for me at the post office which I > assume to be the BID. So I can't explain the response you got. > > Regards > > Paul > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:18 PM PST US From: "J. R. Jones" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Finger brakes --> Europa-List message posted by: "J. R. Jones" Hi Steven, Try Demon Tweeks mail order service. They are based up here in Wrexham and are truly internationally known. Telephone number 01978 664466 or visit www.demon-tweeks.co.uk. Page 69 in their 2004 catalogue gives the gen. Regards, Ron Jones. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:55 PM PST US From: "Ian Swankie" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Finger brakes --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ian Swankie" Steve Suggest you either buy a litre of DOT 5 from Richard Holder (see below), or go to Demon Tweeks http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/ for mail order. Richard will probably be cheaper! Ian Swankie Kit 566 www.gchox.co.uk ----- Original Message ----- From: "Steve Pitt" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Finger brakes > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Pitt" > > Where can I get Dot5 from in the UK? > Steve Pitt #403 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Richard Holder" > To: > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Finger brakes > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder > > > > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Field" > > > > > > > Has anybody experienced the springs in the cylinder of the finger brakes > not > > > being powerful enough to return the plunger assembly to its usual > resting > > > position after operation? > > > > > > If so, what is the cure? > > > > > > Peter Field > > > Kit 566 > > > > I bought one from Europa Florida. I took it apart - there was lots of > swarf > > inside. It had also been mismachined, the end inch of the bores where the > > seals normally go when at "rest" were badly machined with the smooth part > of > > the bore not reaching the open end. > > > > After some discussion (somewhat one way) with Jamar in the US, I got John > > Hurst to admit that there had been a faulty batch from Jamar and he sent > me > > a replacement, which does not have the faulty machining. > > > > So undo the end plates (mind the piston and seals as they should come out) > > and look at the quality of the machining. > > > > When trying it, be sure that there is plenty of lubrication of the fluid > > that you are using (I have a litre of DOT 5 for sale !). > > > > Also remember that in use there will be considerable back-pressure from > the > > callipers which will also help to push the master cylinder pistons back. > > > > Jamar have assured me that the seals in the twin master cylinder are > > suitable for use with ATF/Aviation Brake Fluid and as this is also the > > correct type for the callipers on the tri-gear it should be possible to > use > > ATF/Av Brake Fluid rather than DOT 5 (which is why mine is for sale !) > > > > Having said all that I haven't yet installed mine - waiting for down time > > during the winter. Too nice to take it off-line at the moment ! I am > getting > > used to my twin finger brakes built from the standard (originally floor > > mounted) master cylinders, with long extension levers. > > > > Richard > > Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS) > > Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax) > > Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile) > > SG12 8SH email : rholder@avnet.co.uk > > Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, High Cross > > PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford) > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:01 PM PST US From: Paul Stewart Subject: Re: Europa-List: BID supplier --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart Dennis Lowe wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: Dennis Lowe > >Paul > >I have purchased some BID from Skycraft. The type number is 92125. >It seems to be similar to the Europa supplied BID. Certainly the weight >seems to be similar. >Since I am only using it to finish off non structural parts it will be >fine for what I need and may well be O.K >for other layups but I guess this needs to be confirmed. > >You mentioned type 92915 in your original email.Was this a typo? > >thanks for the information. >Dennis Lowe G-NHRJ > > > > Dennis slip of the one typing finger. Regards Paul ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 04:10:28 PM PST US From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Re: Europa-List: EIS versus Steam Gauges --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" All This topic of power spikes on starting is an old one. It is my opinion that new modern electronic equipment, engine or navigation or GPS, should be designed to live through this problem. If your equipment won't take the start-up, then return it and get equipment that will. Don't live with poor designs. Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 > > I have a Zodiac. I added an "ice cube" relay in paralell with the starter > relay. This relay's NC contacts rated at 30 or 40 amps cuts off all the > electronics when starting and then switches them back ON after the start > circuit is denergized. > Leo Corbalis ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 05:55:55 PM PST US From: Rocketman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ripples in the wing surface --> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman Jeremy Davey wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > >Paul, > >Thanks for that info. I didn't realise one still had to bake the XS wings. >If I bake mine, I'll be sure to do it before finishing. > >Cheers, >Jeremy > >Jeremy Davey >Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA >Tail done >Standard XS wings with mods underway >CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) >1200 build hours to date >Intended fit: >Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop >Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms > > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul McAllister >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ripples in the wing surface > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" > > >Jeremy, > >No, the area that distorted was not the area painted. It was on the trailer >for 10 days in mild summer temperatures. The only thing I did different >was to put a couple of towels to protect the wings and it made the wing >holder extra tight. The added compression was obvious. > >To be honest, I very disappointed with my XS wings. I spent a lot of time >finishing mine only to find once they were baked (140 f) that the fiberglass >substrate underneath showed through. It I was to do it again (and I might) >I would bake the wings first, re sand the primed surface and then paint it. > >Paul > >do not archive > > > My paint guy recommends post curing (baking) all fiberglass, before priming. That way, it's done doing what it's going to do, before the paint is applied... -- Jeff - A055 Builders Log: http://www.N55XS.com ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:57 PM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Europa-List: Ripples in the wing surface --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Guys, The addendum to this story might be great. When I put the wings on the trailer I thought it would be a good idea to put a towel around the area that normally supports the wing so that they won't get scratched. This then compressed them this area and I have two decent looking dings on the top surfaces. I put the aircraft in the sun all day and these areas only improved slightly. I will apply some heat lamps to it tomorrow but it would seem that the indentations are permanent. I assume that it will slowly improve over time, but as of now this looks like I am going to have to sand, fill and repaint the top of the wings......... A winter time job All I can say is for those who use a trailer, be very careful with the XS wings......Very disappointing. Paul ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 08:57:45 PM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 08/17/04 --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com On the UNI.....did you mean to type RA7715? This is from the ACS cataloge, pg30. Mike Duane A207 Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Just about to put the top on but still finding little things to do before that.