---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 08/28/04: 32 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:10 AM - Re: Hand propping (nigel charles) 2. 03:29 AM - Re: Re: Hand prop a Rotax? (David Joyce) 3. 03:29 AM - Re: Woodcomp/Kremen propellers (David Joyce) 4. 03:29 AM - Re: Woodcomp/Kremen propellers (David Joyce) 5. 04:00 AM - Re: Woodcomp/Kremen propellers (Duncan McFadyean) 6. 04:32 AM - Re: Woodcomp/Kremen propellers (Peter Grant) 7. 04:34 AM - Re: expansion tank (Kingsley Hurst) 8. 04:47 AM - Re: Re: Hand prop a Rotax? (Kingsley Hurst) 9. 06:17 AM - Re: expansion tank (Kingsley Hurst) 10. 06:18 AM - Re: Battery Compartment in Rear - Fixing it down. (Fred Fillinger) 11. 07:15 AM - Swap/Part Ex Jodel 1050 for a Europa (jon turner) 12. 07:33 AM - Fuel economy tests with Subaru and Catto prop (GLENN CROWDER) 13. 09:27 AM - Re: Fuel economy tests with Subaru and Catto prop (Duncan McFadyean) 14. 10:57 AM - Monowheel Up stop? (Ronald J. Parigoris) 15. 11:52 AM - Rough 914 (Dave Anderson) 16. 12:51 PM - Re: Aero-News: 'Best (and Worst) of Oshkosh 2004 (Steve & Eileen Genotte) 17. 01:27 PM - Re: Aero-News: 'Best (and Worst) of Oshkosh 2004 (MJKTuck@cs.com) 18. 01:40 PM - Trigear parts (Rocketman) 19. 02:56 PM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 28 Msgs - 08/27/04 (Graham Singleton) 20. 03:31 PM - Drilling the Control Column Bottom Fitting (Tony Renshaw) 21. 03:47 PM - Tri Maingear Manufacturer??? (Tony Renshaw) 22. 03:52 PM - Re: Rough 914 (Fred R. Klein) 23. 04:56 PM - Re: Rough 914 (Cliff Shaw) 24. 05:00 PM - Re: Drilling the Control Column Bottom Fitting (Cliff Shaw) 25. 05:13 PM - Re: Drilling the Control Column Bottom Fitting (Rocketman) 26. 05:34 PM - Re: Drilling the Control Column Bottom Fitting (Fred Fillinger) 27. 06:02 PM - Re: Drilling the Control Column Bottom Fitting (Robert Berube) 28. 06:17 PM - Re: Rough 914 () 29. 09:22 PM - Re: Rough 914 (Mike Parkin) 30. 09:26 PM - Engine Gauges. (Mike Parkin) 31. 10:21 PM - Re: Rough 914 (owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com) 32. 11:24 PM - Re: Rough 914 (Richard Iddon) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:10:57 AM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: Europa-List: RE: Hand propping --> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" Regardless of whether it is possible to hand start a Rotax you won't get me doing it if there is any other way around the problem. Hence I still prefer to have an external power connection. Nigel Charles ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:29:54 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Hand prop a Rotax? --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" Rob, 9312 fpm is 105.8 mph or 91.8 kts - still pretty fast, but allowing for fact that you grasp blade perhaps 6 or 10 ins from tip, this would reduce required handspeed by somewhere between 17 and 28% to between 76 and 88 mph. This is within the range that cricket balls are delivered. ( What's cricket??!!) So with a 30 yd run up and a bit of practise, or with a degree of desperation, maybe it is not quite so improbable. Cheers, David Joyce ----- Original Message ----- From: Rob Housman Subject: Europa-List: RE: Hand prop a Rotax? > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" > > Something is suspicious here. > > According to Rotax the engine must be up to 1200 RPM in order to start, so > let's do some math. 1200 RPM divided by 2.43 (the gearbox ratio) is 494 RPM > at the prop. If we assume a 72 inch diameter prop, then the tip speed is > 494 rev/min times 3.1416 times 72 in/rev divided by 12 in/ft equals 9312 > ft/minute or 155 ft/sec. Hmmm, that's about 120 knots, and I don't think > any human can move a hand that fast let alone actually turn a prop against > the engine's compression. > > So.... either Rotax is wrong or...well, draw your own conclusion. > > > Best regards, > > Rob Housman > Europa XS Tri-Gear A070 > Airframe complete > Irvine, CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] > Subject: > > --> Europa-List message posted by: > > From: "Houlihan,Tim" > To: "'europa-list@matronics.com'" > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Battery position > Date: Fri, 27 Aug 2004 17:40:35 +0100 > > > ">Is an external power source point worth having?< > > If you don't an engine start with a flat aircraft battery will not be > possible as you cannot hand crank a Rotax." > > > Over the past three months I have spoken to two pilots who have hand started > their 912 equipped aircraft. > I truly believe both of them. > > One of them found that the rising tide was a great incentive !! > > He landed on a beach to assist another microlight. When he came to restart > the engine the battery was flat and the waves were only a few metres away. > So he hand started it and saved the day ! > > He tells me he had done this previously and was surprised when I told it > could not be done !!! > > Tim Houlihan > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Doctors.net.uk e-mail protects you from viruses and unsolicited messages > ________________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:29:54 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Woodcomp/Kremen propellers --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" Peter, I could do, but would prefer to wait until there is a UK agent in place Regards, David ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Grant Subject: RE: Europa-List: Woodcomp/Kremen propellers > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Grant" > > Why not write about for the magazine? Sounds like it could be of real > interest. > > Regards > Peter Grant > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > 10 The Sidings, Horncastle LN9 5UA > Tel: 01507 523180 Fax: 01507 525888 Mobile: 07774 923160 > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > G-OGAN Europa TriGear Build No: 100 > Rebuilt after serious prang with long XS wings and Airmaster VP prop. Rotax > 912S. 150 hours. > This email is intended for the sole use of > the addressee. If you have received this email in error, please contact the > sender and delete the message. Sorry, no liability for misuse of this email > however caused. Outgoing emails are automatically checked by Norton > Anti-Virus. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Joyce > To: Europa list > Subject: Europa-List: Woodcomp/Kremen propellers > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" > > I am pleased to say that Frances Donaldson has just increased the blade life > limit on the SR2000 prop from 3 yrs to 6 yrs and said he expects to be able > to remove that limit altogether in a couple of years or so. This has made it > a commercial proposition to sell them in the UK and a major player in the UK > GA marketpkace is pursuing the possibility of becoming their agent. > The Europa 6 Nations tour ( G-HOFC, G-RIXS, G-PTAG, G-NEAT & G-XSDJ) > visited the Kremen factory last week and were impressed and unanimous that > when their current props gave up they would reequip with a Kremen. I > understand that Bryan Alsop has just bought one for 2600 Euros which > included spinner, wiring, CS unit, delivery and instruments, with total > weight of 9.8 Kg > David Joyce, G-XSDJ > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Doctors.net.uk e-mail protects you from viruses and unsolicited messages > ________________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:29:54 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Woodcomp/Kremen propellers --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" Duncan, They never had one. At one stage they expressed an interest but FD's 3yr stipulation put them off and in any case Kremen prefer the idea of Connair. I talked to Jiri about yourprop design paper. He said it was long and the English complex but he felt it didn't simply extend from 2 blade props to 3 and to props with differnt secions. I think he implied that all props should be optimised for the climb phase which is more critical unless you are into racing. Finally he said that a firm (whose name he gave me but I have forgotten) tested the kremen SR2000 and the Rospeller for their new fibreglass plane. The Rospeller has significantly more twist than the Kremen. They found that climb & cruise performance were identical but engine cooling was worse with the Rospeller, so they have chosen the Kremen. Sorry I did not get time (in what turned out to be a hectic schedule) to push him to produce a more in depth critique of the paper. Cheers, David----- Original Message ----- From: Duncan McFadyean Subject: Re: Europa-List: Woodcomp/Kremen propellers > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" > > What happened to ST Aviation's Kremin agency? > > Duncan McF. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "David Joyce" > To: "Europa list" > Subject: Europa-List: Woodcomp/Kremen propellers > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" > > > > > I am pleased to say that Frances Donaldson has just increased the blade > life limit on the SR2000 prop from 3 yrs to 6 yrs and said he expects to be > able to remove that limit altogether in a couple of years or so. This has > made it a commercial proposition to sell them in the UK and a major player > in the UK GA marketpkace is pursuing the possibility of becoming their > agent. > > The Europa 6 Nations tour ( G-HOFC, G-RIXS, G-PTAG, G-NEAT & > G-XSDJ) visited the Kremen factory last week and were impressed and > unanimous that when their current props gave up they would reequip with a > Kremen. I understand that Bryan Alsop has just bought one for 2600 Euros > which included spinner, wiring, CS unit, delivery and instruments, with > total weight of 9.8 Kg > > David Joyce, G-XSDJ > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Doctors.net.uk e-mail protects you from viruses and unsolicited messages > ________________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:00:40 AM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Woodcomp/Kremen propellers --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" Thanks for asking the question and posting the response David. I understand where Jiri was coming from on this, although the usual recommendation is to optimise prop blade twist for the "service" condition, which means 'cruise', where it spends most of its working life. With a VP prop and with the inverse-cube relationship between power and performance, there would be little detectable difference in climb or top speed with different blade twist optimisations, as Jiri points out. However, if in the cruise the prop is running at 83% efficiency rather than an off-optimum 75%, then fuel economy would be improved by 10%. That's 450 gallons of fuel over the life of the engine! Regards, Duncan. ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Woodcomp/Kremen propellers > --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" > > Duncan, They never had one. At one stage they expressed an interest but FD's > 3yr stipulation put them off and in any case Kremen prefer the idea of > Connair. > I talked to Jiri about yourprop design paper. He said it was long > and the English complex but he felt it didn't simply extend from 2 blade > props to 3 and to props with differnt secions. I think he implied that all > props should be optimised for the climb phase which is more critical unless > you are into racing. Finally he said that a firm (whose name he gave me but > I have forgotten) tested the kremen SR2000 and the Rospeller for their new > fibreglass plane. The Rospeller has significantly more twist than the > Kremen. They found that climb & cruise performance were identical but engine > cooling was worse with the Rospeller, so they have chosen the Kremen. Sorry > I did not get time (in what turned out to be a hectic schedule) to push him > to produce a more in depth critique of the paper. > Cheers, David----- Original Message ----- > From: Duncan McFadyean > To: > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Woodcomp/Kremen propellers > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" > > > > > What happened to ST Aviation's Kremin agency? > > > > Duncan McF. > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "David Joyce" > > To: "Europa list" > > Subject: Europa-List: Woodcomp/Kremen propellers > > > > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" > > > > > > > > I am pleased to say that Frances Donaldson has just increased the blade > > life limit on the SR2000 prop from 3 yrs to 6 yrs and said he expects to > be > > able to remove that limit altogether in a couple of years or so. This has > > made it a commercial proposition to sell them in the UK and a major player > > in the UK GA marketpkace is pursuing the possibility of becoming their > > agent. > > > The Europa 6 Nations tour ( G-HOFC, G-RIXS, G-PTAG, G-NEAT & > > G-XSDJ) visited the Kremen factory last week and were impressed and > > unanimous that when their current props gave up they would reequip with a > > Kremen. I understand that Bryan Alsop has just bought one for 2600 Euros > > which included spinner, wiring, CS unit, delivery and instruments, with > > total weight of 9.8 Kg > > > David Joyce, G-XSDJ > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Doctors.net.uk e-mail protects you from viruses and unsolicited messages > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:32:39 AM PST US From: "Peter Grant" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Woodcomp/Kremen propellers --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Grant" OK, advise when ready Regards Peter Grant +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 10 The Sidings, Horncastle LN9 5UA Tel: 01507 523180 Fax: 01507 525888 Mobile: 07774 923160 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ G-OGAN Europa TriGear Build No: 100 Rebuilt after serious prang with long XS wings and Airmaster VP prop. Rotax 912S. 150 hours. This email is intended for the sole use of the addressee. If you have received this email in error, please contact the sender and delete the message. Sorry, no liability for misuse of this email however caused. Outgoing emails are automatically checked by Norton Anti-Virus. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Joyce Subject: Re: Europa-List: Woodcomp/Kremen propellers --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" Peter, I could do, but would prefer to wait until there is a UK agent in place Regards, David ----- Original Message ----- From: Peter Grant Subject: RE: Europa-List: Woodcomp/Kremen propellers > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Grant" > > Why not write about for the magazine? Sounds like it could be of real > interest. > > Regards > Peter Grant > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > 10 The Sidings, Horncastle LN9 5UA > Tel: 01507 523180 Fax: 01507 525888 Mobile: 07774 923160 > +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > G-OGAN Europa TriGear Build No: 100 > Rebuilt after serious prang with long XS wings and Airmaster VP prop. Rotax > 912S. 150 hours. > This email is intended for the sole use of > the addressee. If you have received this email in error, please contact the > sender and delete the message. Sorry, no liability for misuse of this email > however caused. Outgoing emails are automatically checked by Norton > Anti-Virus. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Joyce > To: Europa list > Subject: Europa-List: Woodcomp/Kremen propellers > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" > > I am pleased to say that Frances Donaldson has just increased the blade life > limit on the SR2000 prop from 3 yrs to 6 yrs and said he expects to be able > to remove that limit altogether in a couple of years or so. This has made it > a commercial proposition to sell them in the UK and a major player in the UK > GA marketpkace is pursuing the possibility of becoming their agent. > The Europa 6 Nations tour ( G-HOFC, G-RIXS, G-PTAG, G-NEAT & G-XSDJ) > visited the Kremen factory last week and were impressed and unanimous that > when their current props gave up they would reequip with a Kremen. I > understand that Bryan Alsop has just bought one for 2600 Euros which > included spinner, wiring, CS unit, delivery and instruments, with total > weight of 9.8 Kg > David Joyce, G-XSDJ > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Doctors.net.uk e-mail protects you from viruses and unsolicited messages > ________________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:35 AM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: Re: Europa-List: expansion tank --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" > Patrick Griffin wrote:- > Are you sure the water gets sucked back in when it cools? I can see how the water gets pushed up into the expansion tank when it expands but the pressure cap will be closed when the water cools thus stopping the water from returning from the expansion tank. Patrick, Not trying to teach you how to suck eggs but just in case you are still unclear on the function of the overflow :- If you remove the pressure cap on your engine (Rotax 912, 914), you will note there is a brass coloured round disc in the middle underneath the main seal. This little disc is like a reed valve. It is spring loaded to keep it closed in the first instance (check it with your finger nail) and the pressure build up in the cooling system forces it closed even more. When the water in the cooling system expands, the main or primary seal is forced open against the large spring between the cap and the seal and the liquid flows to the overflow bottle as you have already stated. When things cool down and the water in the engine and hoses contracts again, atmospheric pressure on the liquid in the overflow bottle pushes the excess in the overflow bottle back into the cooling system through that smaller valve in the middle of the primary seal (or valve) displacing that little valve against the relatively weak spring tension which is trying to hold it closed. I would point out that this system works well when the main seal of the radiator cap is in good condition. If the main seal is perished or cracked, when the cooling system cools down, atmospheric pressure is able to force air through these cracks and into the cooling system leaving the overflow bottle full. Consequently, in vehicles with this same principle, I have learned never to trust the radiator is full by confirming there is water in the overflow bottle. I always now remove the cap and physically check it is full to the brim as it should be. If the water level is down, there is air in the system which I'm sure should not be there. Regards Kingsley Hurst Mono Classic 281 in Oz. Bit more done on the rigging of the trailer today. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 04:47:20 AM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Hand prop a Rotax? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" > This is within the range that cricket balls are delivered. ( What's > cricket??!!) Cricket by definition is a game played with a bat and ball and loved by the Pommies except when they get flogged by Australia.! Sorry, Bob, Nev and others, couldn't resist the temptation! Do not archive. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:16 AM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: Re: Europa-List: expansion tank --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" Erratum Patrick and all, Had just turned in and put my head on the pillow when I realised I told an untruth a couple of hours ago. I said in my last posting . . . 'I would point out that this system works well when the main seal of the radiator cap is in good condition. If the main seal is perished or cracked . . . . . . .' At this point, "main seal" should have been referred to as "the fixed seal immediately under the cap" because if this seal leaks, air bypasses the overflow bottle through this cracked or otherwise faulty seal to get into the cooling system through the same valve as the water should return through. Notwithstanding this, the main seal does also have to be in good condition too of course to maintain the required pressure in the system. Apologies if this caused/causes any confusion. . . . . Arrrh, I'm going back to bed ! Kingsley ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:18:30 AM PST US From: "Fred Fillinger" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Battery Compartment in Rear - Fixing it down. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" Mike Parkin wrote: > > It is true that the cables to a rear mounted battery would way more. > However, I would argue that access is easier with a rear mounted battery. > Four screws of baggage bay panel as opposed to 20 or so screws in the top > cowling. Furthermore, after jump-starting a flat battery to get you home - > .... I agree, Mike, and would add also that if a 914 w/o two battery/charging systems, jump-starting and then going flying I think is risky. Also, if an RG battery, there's no maintenance to do other than annual inspection. No gases to crud terminals, and charging and testing can be done at any convenient access point. It's moot if W&B dictates, but an RG battery installed in the hot engine compartment can have reduced useful life, and if alternator output voltage cannot be adjusted, the more frequent need to recharge. Which increases the chances a jump start might be needed! Reg, Fred F. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:15:20 AM PST US From: "jon turner" Subject: Europa-List: Swap/Part Ex Jodel 1050 for a Europa --> Europa-List message posted by: "jon turner" Before I advertise to sell my Jodel would anyone be interested in swapping/Part Ex my Jodel 1050 Ambassadeur for a Europa? The only requirement is that it comes with a trailer and has a Rotax engine. My Jodel 1050 4 seater (2+2). Original manufacture (SAN) 1960 Complete Rebuilt 1997 excellent condition, inside and out with Continental 0200 engine 60 hours STOH 1600TTE, 2700 TTAF Very nice interior, usual full panel, with VOR, Radio Transponder, Garmin 296 powered from panel. 105kts cruise, cleared Mogas Cockpit covers Always hangared and maintained to a very high standard. C of A Jan 2007, but awaiting transfer to permit later in year, according to CAA PFA under EASA regs Pics and details please call or email any time. Thanks, Jon 07899 843998 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:42 AM PST US From: "GLENN CROWDER" Subject: Europa-List: Fuel economy tests with Subaru and Catto prop --> Europa-List message posted by: "GLENN CROWDER" Last Saturday morning I took up a 210 lb passenger for my first dual flight with a new Catto 3 bladed fix pitch 64 x 62 prop. This prop has a large amount of twist, starting with about 45 degrees at the root. I only had 8 gal total in the tank and pumped up the monowheel to 25 lbs. DA was 6600 ft and OAT about 80F with no wind. We were at full gross. The takeoff roll was up to about 1000 ft, could have been shorter, but I held it on the runway probably longer than necessary for safety. My engine is a 130 hp Ram Performance modified Soob EA81 NA. This was also a first flight after installing the Europa speed fairing kit. Climb rate was mostly 800 fpm, sometimes 1000. I wanted to see if the speed fairings had helped any and did a one way speed run at 7500 ft straight and level at 170 mph GPS. There was no bumps and no wind. I had done a solo speed run 2 weeks prior and had shown a similiar 170 mph with no speed kit. I'm not sure the speed fairing kit is adding any extra speed but need to do some solo tests. My buddy flies a O-360 powered Lancair and was not used to the high engine rpm of a geared engine and preferred to slow down to 4000 rpm to closer approximate the 2700 rpm or so of his engine. We noticed the Matronics fuel flow meter keep dropping and dropping at 4000 rpm, settling on 2.6 gph. We flew a big 10 mile circle around the airport to offset any wind, and GPS speeds averaged right at 110 mph. Then we tried a circle at 3500 rpm. This worked out to 95 mph. Fuel burn was down to 2.1! This works out to 45 mpg! Fuel burn basically doubles from 4000 rpm to 5000 rpm. This is very handy information to know if you have to stretch that tank! The Europa is an amazingly efficient little plane! Glenn Crowder Golden, Colorado USA Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:27:39 AM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel economy tests with Subaru and Catto prop --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" Interesting. Your fuel burn vs speed is identical to mine; climb rate slightly less and top speed slightly more . 4000 to 5000 also almost doubles fuel burn rate on mine, which is a 912S. Assuming your figures are in US gal. Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "GLENN CROWDER" Subject: Europa-List: Fuel economy tests with Subaru and Catto prop > --> Europa-List message posted by: "GLENN CROWDER" > > Last Saturday morning I took up a 210 lb passenger for my first dual > flight with a new Catto 3 bladed fix pitch 64 x 62 prop. This prop has a > large amount of twist, starting with about 45 degrees at the root. I only > had 8 gal total in the tank and pumped up the monowheel to 25 lbs. DA was > 6600 ft and OAT about 80F with no wind. We were at full gross. The takeoff > roll was up to about 1000 ft, could have been shorter, but I held it on the > runway probably longer than necessary for safety. My engine is a 130 hp Ram > Performance modified Soob EA81 NA. This was also a first flight after > installing the Europa speed fairing kit. Climb rate was mostly 800 fpm, > sometimes 1000. I wanted to see if the speed fairings had helped any and > did a one way speed run at 7500 ft straight and level at 170 mph GPS. There > was no bumps and no wind. I had > done a solo speed run 2 weeks prior and had shown a similiar 170 mph with no > speed kit. I'm > not sure the speed fairing kit is adding any extra speed but need to do some > solo tests. > My buddy flies a O-360 powered Lancair and was not used to the high engine > rpm of a geared engine and preferred to slow down to 4000 rpm to closer > approximate the 2700 rpm or so of > his engine. We noticed the Matronics fuel flow meter keep dropping and > dropping at 4000 rpm, settling on 2.6 gph. We flew a big 10 mile circle > around the airport to offset any wind, and > GPS speeds averaged right at 110 mph. Then we tried a circle at 3500 rpm. > This worked out > to 95 mph. Fuel burn was down to 2.1! This works out to 45 mpg! > Fuel burn basically doubles from 4000 rpm to 5000 rpm. This is very handy > information to know if you have to stretch that tank! The Europa is an > amazingly efficient little plane! > > Glenn Crowder > Golden, Colorado USA > > Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:57:35 AM PST US From: "Ronald J. Parigoris" Subject: Europa-List: Monowheel Up stop? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" What is favored way to install gear upstop? I saw somewhere 2 blocks that go between the swing arm and the lower actuation arm, but that puts a sharp edge of the actuation arm on the tufnal blocks. Also if you put the full weight of the aircraft on the stops, I am wondering if the pin that goes through the swing arm and holds the lower actuation plate can take the extra loads that will be upon it? I am thinking in the event gear retracts on landing, the up stop should support the weight of the aircraft? Is there any other preferred ways of adding an up stop? Thx. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:52:52 AM PST US From: "Dave Anderson" Subject: Europa-List: Rough 914 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dave Anderson" Hi group, Here is another problem to solve. I have noticed a roughness at the middle range of RPM on the 914 engine. During run-up, I have never gotten better than about 300 RPM drop - usually more. Bottom line - a not very satisfying run-up. It has always been that way. I once had a problem with very rough running after pulling the engine back to cruise power. That turned out to be a split in one of the little rubber hoses coming off the airbox - a simple fix. In the last few hours of running, I am getting a similar roughness, but much more subtle. On today's flight, a mag check at about 25 inches and 5000 rpm reveals roughness on each mag - equally. If I keep the 25 inches and increase the RPM to 5500, the mag check is smooth. IT is very smooth at climb power of 35 inches and 5500 RPM. Also, I have been getting an increased shaking at taxi speed with the rpm at about 2500, when the engine is cold. That is a new thing too. Upon returning from OSH, I noticed green stain that appeared to be coming from my drain lines from the airbox/carb catch bowl. To experiment, I put a catch container in the airbox drain line. I always thought it was putting out oil there, but this morning inspection it became obvious it is fuel, not oil. There is fuel in my airbox. The way I understand the system, there is a line from the airbox to the airbox pressure sensor and the fuel pressure regulator. That is how it maintains the fuel pressure at 2 to 5 PSI above airbox pressure. There are also two more connections to the airbox going from the right side and the left side to a valve of some sort and then from there to the carb float bowls - presumably to keep them pressurized. There is an electrical connection that goes from this valve to the computer, so I think it uses a different pressure tap from the airbox to pressurize the carb float bowl depending on the throttle position. There is a throttle position sensor on the port carb. What if the proper pressure is not getting to the carbs - where there is too much fuel pressure, therefore causing the carb float bowl to overflow? That is what they say in the operator's manual. What other way could fuel be getting into the airbox? Has anyone ever seen such a thing on their 914 engine? I never get easy problems. They always seem to be perplexing problems and always on Friday night or Saturday morning so I have to wait 48 hours before I can start to deal with them. Thanks, Dave A227 Mini U2 232TT ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 12:51:39 PM PST US From: "Steve & Eileen Genotte" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Aero-News: 'Best (and Worst) of Oshkosh 2004 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve & Eileen Genotte" Your link leads me directly to the site's home page, Martin, though I'm positive that is no fault of yours. I've searched the site for nearly 40 minutes for the section you mention and no joy. P.S. Never be surprised by comments by the Zoomster. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of MJKTuck@cs.com Subject: Europa-List: Aero-News: 'Best (and Worst) of Oshkosh 2004 --> Europa-List message posted by: MJKTuck@cs.com Hi Guys, Aero-News: 'Best (and Worst) of Oshkosh 2004' Kind of surprised by the winner of the 'Exercises in Futility 2004' Award and associated comments: ... not so surprised by the first runner up. Check out the article at (complete article address shown below): http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?ContentBlockID=32ba355a-6857-4e05-8b2f-61 55 f45e5db2& Regards, Martin Tuck Europa N152MT Wichita, Kansas ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:27:44 PM PST US From: MJKTuck@cs.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Aero-News: 'Best (and Worst) of Oshkosh 2004 --> Europa-List message posted by: MJKTuck@cs.com In a message dated 8/28/2004 2:52:47 PM Central Standard Time, genottes@wi.rr.com writes: > Your link leads me directly to the site's home page, Martin, though I'm > positive that is no fault of yours. I've searched the site for nearly 40 > minutes for the section you mention and no joy. > > P.S. Never be surprised by comments by the Zoomster. I checked and they do seem to have lost a few days in their list. The link specifically to their Oshkosh report is also missing the 'Part 4' which covered the Liberty and Europa comments (perhaps not such a bad thing). The Editor does seem to take it upon himself to indulge in personal attacks - in fact there seems to be an ongoing battle with a number of the people and companies he has written about - I believe th EAA tried to refuse him entry to Sun & Fun because of previous comments he has made about that. Martin ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:40:36 PM PST US From: Rocketman Subject: Europa-List: Trigear parts --> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman Does anyone have two torque plates, a nose strut and a nose fork, for a trigear, that they are willing to sell? Or, have a source for these parts? Thanks for any help... -- Jeff A055 Builders Log: http://www.N55XS.com ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:42 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 28 Msgs - 08/27/04 --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton At 23:56 27/08/2004 -0700, you wrote: >expansion tank > >--> Europa-List message posted by: Annalights@aol.com > >Graham, >Are you sure the water gets sucked back in when it cools? I can see how >the water >gets pushed up into the expansion tank when it expands but the pressure cap >will be closed when the water cools thus stopping the water from returning >from >the expansion tank. >Patrick Griffin Patrick yes I am. The pressure cap is a two way valve. Not obvious at first but that's the way it's designed. There's a small inlet non return as well as the pressure sensitive Relief valve. Graham ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:31:10 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Europa-List: Drilling the Control Column Bottom Fitting --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw Gidday, I am wondering how I am going to get my control stick wiring past the pivot bolt that supports the Control Column Bottom Fitting? The wiring is bundled, and is larger than the voids either side of the pivot bolt. I am wondering if I can drill through the portion immediately below the tufnol insert that surrounds the base of the stick? I would drill it such that the wires would come out in an aft direction, and then through an access in the front vertical face of the thigh support. So, has anyone else done this and care to make any recommendations? All help greatfully received. Reg Tony Renshaw Sydney Australia Classic 236 B.B. Taildragger Tail, Wings, Ailerons, Flaps Complete and Connected Lower Fuse in Jig, and module most recently installed. Tail Torque Tube installed. Mass Balance assembly installed and deflections sorted Roof Panel between doors completed. Photos at: http://forum.okhuijsen.org/TonyR Intended Engine: 912S CS prop (model undecided) Instrumentation: Garmin 296 Colour GPS beneath an electronic Artificial Horizon, one that I can trust for short periods IMC, to get out of a sticky situation ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:47:12 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Europa-List: Tri Maingear Manufacturer??? --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw Gidday again, Anyone know the maingear supplier of the Tri legs? Reg Tony Renshaw Sydney Australia Classic 236 B.B. Taildragger Tail, Wings, Ailerons, Flaps Complete and Connected Lower Fuse in Jig, and module most recently installed. Tail Torque Tube installed. Mass Balance assembly installed and deflections sorted Roof Panel between doors completed. Photos at: http://forum.okhuijsen.org/TonyR Intended Engine: 912S CS prop (model undecided) Instrumentation: Garmin 296 Colour GPS beneath an electronic Artificial Horizon, one that I can trust for short periods IMC, to get out of a sticky situation ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 03:52:15 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rough 914 From: "Fred R. Klein" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" on 8/28/04 10:52 AM, Dave Anderson at dja767@charter.net wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dave Anderson" > > Hi group, > > > Here is another problem to solve. I have noticed a roughness at the middle > range of RPM on the 914 engine... >I never get easy problems. They always seem to be perplexing problems... $.02 worth of comment, unfortunately of no help to Dave: I'm most sympathetic with anyone who experiences recurring engine problems; Dave's appears (to me) to be another of a long string of complaints or difficulties by many Europa flyers with the Rotax engines. In reading them, I am increasingly distressed in that one of the primary factors leading up to my decision to buy the Europa was that it was paired with a reliable engine based on current (rather than 1930-1940's) technology...I just couldn't justify going with alternatives which relied on the Lycoming/Continental paradigm. From the shared experiences I read about, my confidence in the Rotax appears misplaced. I'll be upfront by saying I've yet to invest a nickel in the Europa FFWD kit, so I have an open mind (and eventually an open-but-limited-pocketbook) to consider the obvious question about moving forward with my original intention of sticking with the integrated, well-proven, stock, company-supported, hi tech, Rotax FFWD package. Perhaps I'm only reading about the squeaky wheels...perhaps there are several hundred Rotax-engined Europas putting in fuel, tearing up the skies, changing oil, having a ball and nary a squawk. I've monitored the transatlantic globe girdling trip of that German diplomat (my apologies, his name escapes me)...surely his installation speaks to reliability. Unfortunately, my sense is that the Rotax needs a lot of, if not constant, tweaking. Of course I've read nothing to suggest that Rotaxes are falling out of the skies, but my goal (or is it an impossible dream?) with my Europa is to log 500-1000 hours with only "normal" maintenance after an initial shakedown ...something akin to the 550 hrs. I've logged in my 1946 Stinson. Seems reasonable what with our technological advances. To that end, I'm willing to be shown the errors in my assessment, but I'm also willing to look at alternatives...as long as I can stay away from putting an original airframe/powerplant together, something which is far beyond my competance. I would consider, for example, going with a CAM 125 ala Alex Bowman's monowheel, pictures of which along with minimal narrative are available at http://www.firewall.ca/main.html (click on Photo Gallery), should all FFWD components become available. (I first saw Alex's completed ship at the EAA Arlington WA fly in and it was very impressive.) ...somewhat perplexed... Fred A194, happily starting on wings ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 04:56:35 PM PST US From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rough 914 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" Dave , Fred My experience with rough running has lead me to believe the people at Lockwood. I call them with a long string of "rough running" symptoms and right away they said "Balance the Carburetors" Now I consider my self a pretty good mechanical guy. I thought I had them balanced well. BUT, I got a Carb Balancing kit (manometer with tubes and mercury) from a motorcycle shop. It showed me the error of my thinking. The end results is with a manometer (of two matched vacuum gauges) you can get it right on. In fact the bodan cable can be adjusted and a difference in reading can be noted in 1/2 of a 6th of a turn of the nut. I used the calculator to figure out the movement of the cable, It is .002" movement of the bodan cable. I measured that much difference in the vacuum on the carbs. The Lockwood people said the stain I saw was fuel. It comes from the carbs overflowing because the float vibrated and lets too much fuel in. Smooth running engines don't vibrate and the carbs don't overflow. Another thing I saw in reading up on this is that the carb balancing is a 100 hour service recordation. "That is my 2 cents worth. Thanks for listening !" Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 Flying and having a good time.. "Try it, you will like it !" PS: I got the Rotax MM in PDF from the link on the Europa factory web page. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 05:00:34 PM PST US From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Drilling the Control Column Bottom Fitting --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" Toney I ran my control stick wires in just like you described. Be sure to smooth up the edges of the hole so the wire does not chafe. Gear legs---- Ask John Hurst, he has a USA source. Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 Like I said before --- Loving the flying of "Wile E. Coyote" ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 05:13:46 PM PST US From: Rocketman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Drilling the Control Column Bottom Fitting --> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman Tony Renshaw wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw > >Gidday, >I am wondering how I am going to get my control stick wiring past the pivot >bolt that supports the Control Column Bottom Fitting? The wiring is >bundled, and is larger than the voids either side of the pivot bolt. I am >wondering if I can drill through the portion immediately below the tufnol >insert that surrounds the base of the stick? I would drill it such that the >wires would come out in an aft direction, and then through an access in the >front vertical face of the thigh support. So, has anyone else done this and >care to make any recommendations? All help greatfully received. > >Reg >Tony Renshaw >Sydney Australia > > Tony, I ran mine just like that. Slipped a piece of shrink tubing over the wires, as they exited the housing, then routed them down the inside of the tufnol bearing support, to the floor and directly into the tunnel, holding them in place with silicon, until I can carpet over them. -- Jeff A055 Builders Log: http://www.N55XS.com ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:18 PM PST US From: "Fred Fillinger" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Drilling the Control Column Bottom Fitting --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" Tony Renshaw wrote: > Gidday, > I am wondering how I am going to get my control stick wiring past the pivot > bolt that supports the Control Column Bottom Fitting? You may wish to consider the gauge wiring you are using. I can't think of any function wired to a device at the top of the stick that requires anything larger than even #30 for intermittent use, although #24-26 may be more workable wherever it terminates. You can buy multi-conductor cable with whatever gauge desired, with sleeving for additional chafe protection, from online electronics surplus houses. Reg, Fred F. ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:16 PM PST US From: "Robert Berube" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Drilling the Control Column Bottom Fitting --> Europa-List message posted by: "Robert Berube" John has a couple sets of main gear legs in stock at the Lakeland office. Bob Berube -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cliff Shaw Subject: Re: Europa-List: Drilling the Control Column Bottom Fitting --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" Toney I ran my control stick wires in just like you described. Be sure to smooth up the edges of the hole so the wire does not chafe. Gear legs---- Ask John Hurst, he has a USA source. Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 Like I said before --- Loving the flying of "Wile E. Coyote" ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:01 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rough 914 --> Europa-List message posted by: Put me down as one who is happy with the Rotax 914. There have been a few minor issues in the first 250 hours, but they are not the engine's fault. It did help to balance the carburetors. I had to adjust the turbo linkage. Overheating was an issue early on, now solved but not the engines fault. Every engine has these quirks. I have a Skylane and have to replace exhaust gaskets more often than I think I should, its a nagging issue for 25 years(also the starter going bad, the voltage regulator replace. on AD mags,etc). I consider the Lycoming O 540 a fine engine anyway. Things break and you fix them. From what I hear, the Rotax engine has a good record of getting people back on the ground safely. It can run rough if you give it a lot of 100LL and no TCP. It is designed to run best on auto gas. I like the Rotax quiet operation. It is very neighbor friendly in the noise department. Look them all over but I think you are correct that the squeaky wheels are the ones most often heard. Ken Carpenter A123 N9XS 914 Mono ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred R. Klein" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rough 914 > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" > > on 8/28/04 10:52 AM, Dave Anderson at dja767@charter.net wrote: > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dave Anderson" > > > > Hi group, > > > > > > Here is another problem to solve. I have noticed a roughness at the middle > > range of RPM on the 914 engine... > > >I never get easy problems. They always seem to be perplexing problems... > > > $.02 worth of comment, unfortunately of no help to Dave: > > I'm most sympathetic with anyone who experiences recurring engine problems; > Dave's appears (to me) to be another of a long string of complaints or > difficulties by many Europa flyers with the Rotax engines. In reading them, > I am increasingly distressed in that one of the primary factors leading up > to my decision to buy the Europa was that it was paired with a reliable > engine based on current (rather than 1930-1940's) technology...I just > couldn't justify going with alternatives which relied on the > Lycoming/Continental paradigm. > > From the shared experiences I read about, my confidence in the Rotax appears > misplaced. > > I'll be upfront by saying I've yet to invest a nickel in the Europa FFWD > kit, so I have an open mind (and eventually an open-but-limited-pocketbook) > to consider the obvious question about moving forward with my original > intention of sticking with the integrated, well-proven, stock, > company-supported, hi tech, Rotax FFWD package. > > Perhaps I'm only reading about the squeaky wheels...perhaps there are > several hundred Rotax-engined Europas putting in fuel, tearing up the skies, > changing oil, having a ball and nary a squawk. I've monitored the > transatlantic globe girdling trip of that German diplomat (my apologies, his > name escapes me)...surely his installation speaks to reliability. > Unfortunately, my sense is that the Rotax needs a lot of, if not constant, > tweaking. > > Of course I've read nothing to suggest that Rotaxes are falling out of the > skies, but my goal (or is it an impossible dream?) with my Europa is to log > 500-1000 hours with only "normal" maintenance after an initial shakedown > ...something akin to the 550 hrs. I've logged in my 1946 Stinson. Seems > reasonable what with our technological advances. > > To that end, I'm willing to be shown the errors in my assessment, but I'm > also willing to look at alternatives...as long as I can stay away from > putting an original airframe/powerplant together, something which is far > beyond my competance. I would consider, for example, going with a CAM 125 > ala Alex Bowman's monowheel, pictures of which along with minimal narrative > are available at http://www.firewall.ca/main.html (click on Photo Gallery), > should all FFWD components become available. (I first saw Alex's completed > ship at the EAA Arlington WA fly in and it was very impressive.) > > ...somewhat perplexed... > > Fred > A194, happily starting on wings > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 09:22:02 PM PST US From: "Mike Parkin" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rough 914 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" I am reluctant to tempt providence but I also am very happy with my Rotax 914. Starts first time everytime and so far (touch wood) has not missed a beat. My own tips fwiw are pay particular attention to Carb balancing, dynamic prop balancing and keep away from Avgas as far as possible. regards, Mike (G-JULZ) ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rough 914 > --> Europa-List message posted by: > > Put me down as one who is happy with the Rotax 914. There have been a few > minor issues in the first 250 hours, but they are not the engine's fault. > It did help to balance the carburetors. I had to adjust the turbo linkage. > Overheating was an issue early on, now solved but not the engines fault. > Every engine has these quirks. I have a Skylane and have to replace exhaust > gaskets more often than I think I should, its a nagging issue for 25 > years(also the starter going bad, the voltage regulator replace. on AD > mags,etc). I consider the Lycoming O 540 a fine engine anyway. Things break > and you fix them. From what I hear, the Rotax engine has a good record of > getting people back on the ground safely. It can run rough if you give it a > lot of 100LL and no TCP. It is designed to run best on auto gas. I like > the Rotax quiet operation. It is very neighbor friendly in the noise > department. Look them all over but I think you are correct that the squeaky > wheels are the ones most often heard. > Ken Carpenter > A123 N9XS 914 Mono > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred R. Klein" > To: > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rough 914 > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" > > > > > on 8/28/04 10:52 AM, Dave Anderson at dja767@charter.net wrote: > > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dave Anderson" > > > > > > Hi group, > > > > > > > > > Here is another problem to solve. I have noticed a roughness at the > middle > > > range of RPM on the 914 engine... > > > > >I never get easy problems. They always seem to be perplexing problems... > > > > > > $.02 worth of comment, unfortunately of no help to Dave: > > > > I'm most sympathetic with anyone who experiences recurring engine > problems; > > Dave's appears (to me) to be another of a long string of complaints or > > difficulties by many Europa flyers with the Rotax engines. In reading > them, > > I am increasingly distressed in that one of the primary factors leading up > > to my decision to buy the Europa was that it was paired with a reliable > > engine based on current (rather than 1930-1940's) technology...I just > > couldn't justify going with alternatives which relied on the > > Lycoming/Continental paradigm. > > > > From the shared experiences I read about, my confidence in the Rotax > appears > > misplaced. > > > > I'll be upfront by saying I've yet to invest a nickel in the Europa FFWD > > kit, so I have an open mind (and eventually an > open-but-limited-pocketbook) > > to consider the obvious question about moving forward with my original > > intention of sticking with the integrated, well-proven, stock, > > company-supported, hi tech, Rotax FFWD package. > > > > Perhaps I'm only reading about the squeaky wheels...perhaps there are > > several hundred Rotax-engined Europas putting in fuel, tearing up the > skies, > > changing oil, having a ball and nary a squawk. I've monitored the > > transatlantic globe girdling trip of that German diplomat (my apologies, > his > > name escapes me)...surely his installation speaks to reliability. > > Unfortunately, my sense is that the Rotax needs a lot of, if not constant, > > tweaking. > > > > Of course I've read nothing to suggest that Rotaxes are falling out of the > > skies, but my goal (or is it an impossible dream?) with my Europa is to > log > > 500-1000 hours with only "normal" maintenance after an initial shakedown > > ...something akin to the 550 hrs. I've logged in my 1946 Stinson. Seems > > reasonable what with our technological advances. > > > > To that end, I'm willing to be shown the errors in my assessment, but I'm > > also willing to look at alternatives...as long as I can stay away from > > putting an original airframe/powerplant together, something which is far > > beyond my competance. I would consider, for example, going with a CAM 125 > > ala Alex Bowman's monowheel, pictures of which along with minimal > narrative > > are available at http://www.firewall.ca/main.html (click on Photo > Gallery), > > should all FFWD components become available. (I first saw Alex's completed > > ship at the EAA Arlington WA fly in and it was very impressive.) > > > > ...somewhat perplexed... > > > > Fred > > A194, happily starting on wings > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 09:26:30 PM PST US From: "Mike Parkin" Subject: Europa-List: Engine Gauges. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Parkin" If anyone has the Europa supplied (VDO) engine temperature and pressure gauges still waiting to be installed, I would be most grateful for a little data. I am interested in the voltage required to give max and min readings on the oil/water temperature and oil pressure gauges. Is there any printed data anywhere. regards, Mike ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:30 PM PST US From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rough 914 --> Europa-List message posted by: I have +300 on my 914 - never mist a harthbeat! Regards Gert OY-GDS Europa 151 Den 29/8-2004, kl. 2.05, skrev Fred R. Klein: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" > > > on 8/28/04 10:52 AM, Dave Anderson at dja767@charter.net wrote: > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dave Anderson" >> >> >> Hi group, >> >> >> Here is another problem to solve. I have noticed a roughness at the >> middle >> range of RPM on the 914 engine... > >> I never get easy problems. They always seem to be perplexing >> problems... > > > $.02 worth of comment, unfortunately of no help to Dave: > > I'm most sympathetic with anyone who experiences recurring engine > problems; > Dave's appears (to me) to be another of a long string of complaints or > difficulties by many Europa flyers with the Rotax engines. In reading > them, > I am increasingly distressed in that one of the primary factors > leading up > to my decision to buy the Europa was that it was paired with a reliable > engine based on current (rather than 1930-1940's) technology...I just > couldn't justify going with alternatives which relied on the > Lycoming/Continental paradigm. > > From the shared experiences I read about, my confidence in the Rotax > appears > misplaced. > > I'll be upfront by saying I've yet to invest a nickel in the Europa > FFWD > kit, so I have an open mind (and eventually an > open-but-limited-pocketbook) > to consider the obvious question about moving forward with my original > intention of sticking with the integrated, well-proven, stock, > company-supported, hi tech, Rotax FFWD package. > > Perhaps I'm only reading about the squeaky wheels...perhaps there are > several hundred Rotax-engined Europas putting in fuel, tearing up the > skies, > changing oil, having a ball and nary a squawk. I've monitored the > transatlantic globe girdling trip of that German diplomat (my > apologies, his > name escapes me)...surely his installation speaks to reliability. > Unfortunately, my sense is that the Rotax needs a lot of, if not > constant, > tweaking. > > Of course I've read nothing to suggest that Rotaxes are falling out of > the > skies, but my goal (or is it an impossible dream?) with my Europa is > to log > 500-1000 hours with only "normal" maintenance after an initial > shakedown > ...something akin to the 550 hrs. I've logged in my 1946 Stinson. Seems > reasonable what with our technological advances. > > To that end, I'm willing to be shown the errors in my assessment, but > I'm > also willing to look at alternatives...as long as I can stay away from > putting an original airframe/powerplant together, something which is > far > beyond my competance. I would consider, for example, going with a CAM > 125 > ala Alex Bowman's monowheel, pictures of which along with minimal > narrative > are available at http://www.firewall.ca/main.html (click on Photo > Gallery), > should all FFWD components become available. (I first saw Alex's > completed > ship at the EAA Arlington WA fly in and it was very impressive.) > > ...somewhat perplexed... > > Fred > A194, happily starting on wings > > > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 11:24:38 PM PST US From: "Richard Iddon" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Rough 914 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard Iddon" Fred, This summer I have participated in two week long trips round Europe in company with 6 other Rotax powered Europa's on one trip and 3 on the second, flying up to 300 miles each day. During the trips no one had any problems at all with starting and running. One early mono with a 912, quite long in the tooth did spring a water leak but this appeared to be due to poor build quality. The leaking rotax actually ran for quite a while with no water in the engine at all, at a later date and probably as a result of the first problem he also ran for half an a hour with no oil pressure also. Whilst not recommended of course, it does show the amount of abuse the Rotax will take and still keep going. Richard Iddon G-RIXS -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred R. Klein Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rough 914 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" on 8/28/04 10:52 AM, Dave Anderson at dja767@charter.net wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dave Anderson" > > Hi group, > > > Here is another problem to solve. I have noticed a roughness at the middle > range of RPM on the 914 engine... >I never get easy problems. They always seem to be perplexing problems... $.02 worth of comment, unfortunately of no help to Dave: I'm most sympathetic with anyone who experiences recurring engine problems; Dave's appears (to me) to be another of a long string of complaints or difficulties by many Europa flyers with the Rotax engines. In reading them, I am increasingly distressed in that one of the primary factors leading up to my decision to buy the Europa was that it was paired with a reliable engine based on current (rather than 1930-1940's) technology...I just couldn't justify going with alternatives which relied on the Lycoming/Continental paradigm. From the shared experiences I read about, my confidence in the Rotax appears misplaced. I'll be upfront by saying I've yet to invest a nickel in the Europa FFWD kit, so I have an open mind (and eventually an open-but-limited-pocketbook) to consider the obvious question about moving forward with my original intention of sticking with the integrated, well-proven, stock, company-supported, hi tech, Rotax FFWD package. Perhaps I'm only reading about the squeaky wheels...perhaps there are several hundred Rotax-engined Europas putting in fuel, tearing up the skies, changing oil, having a ball and nary a squawk. I've monitored the transatlantic globe girdling trip of that German diplomat (my apologies, his name escapes me)...surely his installation speaks to reliability. Unfortunately, my sense is that the Rotax needs a lot of, if not constant, tweaking. Of course I've read nothing to suggest that Rotaxes are falling out of the skies, but my goal (or is it an impossible dream?) with my Europa is to log 500-1000 hours with only "normal" maintenance after an initial shakedown ...something akin to the 550 hrs. I've logged in my 1946 Stinson. Seems reasonable what with our technological advances. To that end, I'm willing to be shown the errors in my assessment, but I'm also willing to look at alternatives...as long as I can stay away from putting an original airframe/powerplant together, something which is far beyond my competance. I would consider, for example, going with a CAM 125 ala Alex Bowman's monowheel, pictures of which along with minimal narrative are available at http://www.firewall.ca/main.html (click on Photo Gallery), should all FFWD components become available. (I first saw Alex's completed ship at the EAA Arlington WA fly in and it was very impressive.) ...somewhat perplexed... Fred A194, happily starting on wings == == == ==