---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 09/17/04: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:44 AM - Re: Exhaust system (G-IANI) 2. 02:17 AM - spar pip pin (Raimo Toivio) 3. 02:18 AM - Classic stainless steel exhausts (nigel charles) 4. 02:52 AM - Re: pip-pin accident! Need spare and medical help! (David Joyce) 5. 02:56 AM - Re: Exhaust system (John Cliff) 6. 04:12 AM - Re: Exhaust system (Gavin & Anne) 7. 04:56 AM - Marlins Cheap 200g/0.1g Scales (percyville) 8. 05:43 AM - Re: Exhaust system (Gavin & Anne) (Jim Butcher) 9. 08:18 AM - Re: Last of the Summer Wine - 2004 (23rd to 26th September) (David Joyce) 10. 08:44 AM - Re: pip-pin - tailplane (Fred R. Klein) 11. 09:10 AM - Europa 2004 Managment. (EuropaXSA276@aol.com) 12. 10:09 AM - Wing Spar pip-pins (Fred R. Klein) 13. 11:26 AM - Re: Last of the Summer Wine - 2004 (23rd to 26th September) (Fergus Kyle) 14. 02:42 PM - Fuel Mizer vrs NavMan (Aircraft Spruce) 15. 03:11 PM - Re: Classic stainless steel exhausts (Pete Lawless) 16. 10:36 PM - Re: Last of the Summer Wine - 2004 (23rd to 26th September) (William Mills) 17. 11:23 PM - Fuel flow computer Q. (owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:44:01 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Exhaust system --> Europa-List message posted by: "G-IANI" Gavin Unable to help with the exhaust hitting the cowl without seeing how your cowl fits in general. I have an Airmaster prop and managed to get it clear of the exhaust on my 914. The three cuts in the CD1 allow the flap to be bent up to provide a jet of cold air to the turbo of the 914. They are not needed on the 912. Ian Rickard #505 G-IANI XS Trigear Europa Club Assistant Mods Rep e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:17:53 AM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Europa-List: spar pip pin --> Europa-List message posted by: "Raimo Toivio" To All Who Like Pins! While writing this, I am keeping on my hand a Brand New Spar Pip Pin. Today it is Friday and it was a night before Thurday, when my spp was broken. Thank You Jos! Maybe I will get my next spare before I need it! What a wonderful world! Raimo M W Toivio OH-XRT #417 OH-CVK OH-BLL 37500 Lempaala Finland tel + 358 3 3753 777 fax + 358 3 3753 100 gsm + 358 40 590 1450 raimo.toivio@rwm.fi www.rwm.fi do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:18:02 AM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: Europa-List: Classic stainless steel exhausts --> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" CKT have now completed the adjustment needed to their jig to ensure that all Classic Rotax exhausts will be manufactured to the correct tolerances. To make it worth their while doing a production run they need at least 10 customers. At the moment 7 of you have showed interest. If there are any more of you out there who will be requiring one of these please let me know and I will pass the info on. Be aware that the original exhausts were mild steel and did not last very long. They also weigh about 2-3lb more so if you own a Classic and do not yet have a stainless exhaust now is the time to get one. Regards Nigel Charles ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 02:52:12 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: pip-pin accident! Need spare and medical help! --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" Al, An alternative arrangement (not my invention - saw it on someone else's plane and use it on mine) is to have a small steel cross bar in the hole in the pip pin that the ring comes in - made from a piece of the small rat tailed ( or really mouse tailed) files you can buy sets of very cheaply. You can then insert or extract the pip pins from both tail plane and wing root with a tool made of hollowed steel with two spiralling grooves cut at the end so you 'screw it on ' to the pip pin end. You can then manage with surface openings which are about 12mm wide. David Joyce G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Al Stills Subject: RE: Europa-List: pip-pin accident! Need spare and medical help! > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Al Stills" > > I was abel to see a finished Europa here in Phoenix this weekend and observed one of the cleanest and easiest pip-pin arrangements I've seen to date. The hole in the stabilator was only > about 3/4" with a large set screw to cover when installed. To get it in and out a tool was made with a t-handle. It had approximately 6" blade that tapered to the end and then a turn at the end, flat on top and bottom. The rings were pulled out of the pip-pin and the tool was used to put in and pull out(being inserted into the ring hole). Very simple and effective. Eliminates the "OOP!* > (*&#@'s. You can put in with the tool and extract (the hole is just large enough to put tool and your finger to push the plunger). > > Al Stills > A095 > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Doctors.net.uk e-mail protects you from viruses and unsolicited messages > ________________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 02:56:28 AM PST US From: "John Cliff" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Exhaust system --> Europa-List message posted by: "John Cliff" > On unwrapping the exhaust package there were two 50mm dia aluminium > tubes 50mm long with curved flanges on the end=85=85..does anyone know what > they are for? I raised this a week or two ago for an early XS exhaust (a Heggemann). The saddle flanges were provided to fabricate a cabin heat source by attaching around holes made in the shroud surronding the silencer (which is attached by two large worm drive clips). Neville recommended throwing the flanges away (lack of heat will not be a problem !) [Not sure about that, but I'd like a heat source separated from the exhaust system]. The shroud should be left on (reduces heat transfer to things above it). He also said that the down pipe which is in two parts, with a spilt sleeve joint, was designed to be used with no clamping around it, but that he always added an exhaust clamp at this point. John Cliff #0259 ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:12:06 AM PST US From: "Gavin & Anne" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Exhaust system --> Europa-List message posted by: "Gavin & Anne" Hi ......yes mine is indeed a Heggemann muffler and the problem exhaust stub is in two parts with a split sleeve joint so it must be an early version Thanks Gavin Lee.....#355 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cliff Subject: Re: Europa-List: Exhaust system --> Europa-List message posted by: "John Cliff" --> > On unwrapping the exhaust package there were two 50mm dia aluminium > tubes 50mm long with curved flanges on the end=85=85..does anyone know > what they are for? I raised this a week or two ago for an early XS exhaust (a Heggemann). The saddle flanges were provided to fabricate a cabin heat source by attaching around holes made in the shroud surronding the silencer (which is attached by two large worm drive clips). Neville recommended throwing the flanges away (lack of heat will not be a problem !) [Not sure about that, but I'd like a heat source separated from the exhaust system]. The shroud should be left on (reduces heat transfer to things above it). He also said that the down pipe which is in two parts, with a spilt sleeve joint, was designed to be used with no clamping around it, but that he always added an exhaust clamp at this point. John Cliff #0259 == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == --- --- ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 04:56:22 AM PST US From: "percyville" Subject: Europa-List: Marlins Cheap 200g/0.1g Scales --> Europa-List message posted by: "percyville" We've had extensive threads on weighing devices and these scales were discussed in detail about 2 years ago, believe a few of you out there have used them with success, but for information: The pocket scales are back on promotion with 60% off in Marlins at 19.99. http://www.maplin.co.uk/products/module.asp?CartID=10721552&moduleno=311 24&Products=1 Doesnt look like a calibration weight is supplied this time though... Too late for me as I bought a set of My Weigh 500g/0.1g scales several weeks ago. Seeking to obtain a calibration weight. Cheers Paul. Kit #558 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:23 AM PST US From: "Jim Butcher" Subject: Europa-List: Re: Exhaust system (Gavin & Anne) --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Butcher" Gavin & Anne, We also had a problem with the stbd forward pipe hitting the cowl when positioned for the AirMaster (Martin from AirMaster has a drawing that clearly shows the 25mm dimension). So we made a slight bump out to clear the pipe, keeping about the same clearance as on the port side (about 1/2"). I think Paul McAllister had problems with the heat from the pipe burning his cowl. The little 3 sided cutout in CD1 is for cooling the turbo on the 914. For 912 leave it as is (speeds up your build!!). No idea what the 50mm tubes are for. We didn't get them with our FWF. Jim & Heather Butcher A185 Finally painting!! ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:18:16 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Last of the Summer Wine - 2004 (23rd to 26th September) --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" William, I would dearly like to join you but cannot decently abandon Su again as she is not terribly well at present. David ----- Original Message ----- From: William Mills Subject: Europa-List: Last of the Summer Wine - 2004 (23rd to 26th September) > --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" > > A number of DOTHers have expressed an interest in the "Last of the Summer Wine", end of season, long weekend trip to France, so I am suggesting we might like to arrange it for Thursday 23rd to Sunday 26th September. Last year we chased the good weather and visited Chauvigny, Bergerac, Ill-Doleron, and Honfleur. Most enjoyable with lots of summer wine. > If anybody is interested, please drop me a line, or phone on 01495 785 499. > Best wishes, > William > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Doctors.net.uk e-mail protects you from viruses and unsolicited messages > ________________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:44:39 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: pip-pin - tailplane From: "Fred R. Klein" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" David, I am a bit confused at what you describe...any chance that you could post a picture of the pin and the "inserter/extractor"? Fred A194 on 9/17/04 1:52 AM, David Joyce at davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" > > An alternative arrangement (not my invention - saw it on someone else's > plane and use it on mine) is to have a small steel cross bar in the hole in > the pip pin that the ring comes in - made from a piece of the small rat > tailed ( or really mouse tailed) files you can buy sets of very cheaply. You > can then insert or extract the pip pins from both tail plane and wing root > with a tool made of hollowed steel with two spiralling grooves cut at the > end so you 'screw it on ' to the pip pin end. You can then manage with > surface openings which are about 12mm wide. David Joyce G-XSDJ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 09:10:59 AM PST US From: EuropaXSA276@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Europa 2004 Managment. --> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaXSA276@aol.com Hello All: A few days ago there were many posts on how the new Europa 2004 management was or was not handling the situations on many issues including backordered parts and in particular, service to the United States customer base and market. . Please note that my intention is not to start that thread again! I think we have all voiced our concerns and opinion quite effectively. < Present company included!> The reason for this post is to reassure. I thought that I would spread some good news about what I perceive as straightforward progression for the Europa company. I was contacted by Andy this week. He acknowledged that he has received my list of missing parts for A276. In addition he gave me a list of what could be shipped immediately and some expected timelines on the items not presently in stock. Things are looking up gentlemen! These folks are working very hard right now. DO NOT ARCHIVE Brian S A276 Tri Gear. Texas See my build photos at: http://forum.okhuijsen.org/BrianS ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:09:33 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Wing Spar pip-pins From: "Fred R. Klein" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" Hi All, In re-reading my posting of yesterday, I find an error which I would like to correct as follows: I wrote: > To sum up, looking at McMaster-Carr catalogue pg. 3088, you find a picture of > the aluminum "T" handle type "G" quick release pin; this APPEARS to be EXACTLY > like that supplied w/ kit. Going to pg. 3089, you find part #90293A415 which > is a "T" handle pip pin w/ 2 balls of 1/2" Dia. w/ 3 1/2" grip range at $29.30 > ea. What I intended and should have written was: "looking at McMaster-Carr catalogue pg. 3088, you find a picture of the aluminum "L" handle type "D" quick release pin; this APPEARS to be EXACTLY like that supplied w/ kit." On pg. 3089, you will find it listed as part #90302A415, a 1/2" dia. pin w/ 2 balls and a 3 1/2" usable length for $33.27 ea. You will also find a picture of the aluminum "T" handle type "G". Going to pg. 3089, you find part #90293A415 which is a "T" handle pip pin w/ 2 balls of 1/2" dia. w/ 3 1/2" usable length at $29.30 ea. For those with a "hammer to fit" situation, the heavy duty 2 ball quick release pin, part #90980A555 which has a welded steel "T" handle at $57.08 each, a 2 ball 1/2" pin w/ a 3 1/2" usable length, may be just the ticket. Sorry for any confusion...now back to mix some resin! Happy building, Fred A194 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:08 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Last of the Summer Wine - 2004 (23rd to 26th September) --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Last of the Summer Wine - 2004 (23rd to 26th September) | --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" | | William, I would dearly like to join you but cannot decently abandon Su | again as she is not terribly well at present. David David, Oh my. Please give her my sympathy and hope for early return to robust health. There will be the last of the summer wine in 2005 too............. Ferg A064 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:42:46 PM PST US From: Aircraft Spruce Subject: Europa-List: Fuel Mizer vrs NavMan da2a@yahoogroups.com, Aircar@yahoogroups.com, canard-aviators@yahoogroups.com, Corby_Starlet@yahoogroups.com, navion_aircraft_mail@yahoogroups.com, piper-cub-builders@yahoogroups.com, quicksilverultralightowners@yahoogroups.com, RV10@yahoogroups.com, subaruaircraft@yahoogroups.com, europa-list@matronics.com, kitfox-list@matronics.com, kolb-list@matronics.com --> Europa-List message posted by: Aircraft Spruce Builders, Thanks for bringing the matter of Fuel Mizer vs. NavMan fuel computers to our attention. We have carried Fuel Mizer for a couple of years and had never heard of NavMan. We asked the manufacturer of NavMan about the difference in the units, and as you can see from the following commentary there is definitely a difference, only the Fuel Mizer is recommended for Aviation use. Fuel Mizer has been thoroughly tested in aviation applications and is certified for CAO-95-45 aircraft in the Australia. Best Regards, Jim Irwin President, Aircraft Spruce ----- Original Message ----- From: SlipStream Industries, Inc. Subject: Questions Regarding Fuel Mizer Dear Jim: I am forwarding an email I received from Ole Jensen, President of Boss Products, the manufacturer of the Fuel Mizer under license from Navman. SlipStream is Boss Product's North American distributor. In his response to the questions posed yesterday, he references certain modifications and approvals received for use of this product in aviation. The exact language found on the cover of the Installation and Instruction manual is as follows: This instrument has been modified to comply with Australian Engineering order HEO-469 and certified for CAO 95-25 type aircraft in Australia. Please let me know if you have any questions, or desire any further information. Kindest regards, Mike Puhl SlipStream International ----- Original Message ----- From: Ole Jensen Subject: Re: Mizer. Dear Mike: The question raised regarding the Navman fuel flow meter and the Mizer is a common one that has been around for many years and a lot of people have lost money and endangered themselves by purchasing the Navman for use in aviation. Nearly all the Navman units purchased for this application have failed and Navman refuses to replace them under warranty. Several years ago we negotiated with Navman and paid a licensing fee that enabled us to make the appropriate modifications for use in aviation. In addition, the Mizer has been registered with CASA (the equivalent to your FAA) and certified by a qualified aeronautical engineer. Boss Products paid to have the appropriate modifications made for use in civil aviation, and these modifications have been improved upon several times since. As a result, the Mizer enjoys an excellent reliability record and has been certified according to CAO order no.HEO-469 as printed on the cover of the installation manual. Any one doubting the validity of our agreement with Navman is free to contact the Vice President of Navman in New Zealand, Mr. Mark Michell, and he will verify these facts. Boss Products is the only company in the world licensed to modify and distribute this particular product. Unfortunately, some unscrupulous marine dealers still offer the Navman for use in unapproved applications despite the knowledge that the manufacturer strictly prohibits this practice. Greed and ignorance are usually the motivator. I can also tell you that the price differences between the Navman and Fuel Mizer are reasonably close, especially considering the potential danger for misuse in a non-approved aviation application. Further, I spoke with Navman earlier today and was told that no one in the U.S. is offering this unit for anywhere close to US $99.00, and that the suggested retail price is US $299.00, though they offer special MAP pricing from time to time. Hope this helps to clear up this issue. Please let me know if I can be of further assistance in any way. Regards, Ole Jensen President _______________________________ Express yourself with Y! Messenger! Free. Download now. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 03:11:31 PM PST US From: "Pete Lawless" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Classic stainless steel exhausts --> Europa-List message posted by: "Pete Lawless" Nigel How much money are we talking about? Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nigel charles Subject: Europa-List: Classic stainless steel exhausts --> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" --> CKT have now completed the adjustment needed to their jig to ensure that all Classic Rotax exhausts will be manufactured to the correct tolerances. To make it worth their while doing a production run they need at least 10 customers. At the moment 7 of you have showed interest. If there are any more of you out there who will be requiring one of these please let me know and I will pass the info on. Be aware that the original exhausts were mild steel and did not last very long. They also weigh about 2-3lb more so if you own a Classic and do not yet have a stainless exhaust now is the time to get one. Regards Nigel Charles == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == --- --- ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:36:37 PM PST US From: "William Mills" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Last of the Summer Wine - 2004 (23rd to 26th September) --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" David, So sorry to hear about Su and I do hope she has a speedy recovery. Please give her my best wishes. We will drink our wine to absent friends and look forward to seeing you soon. Regards, William Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Last of the Summer Wine - 2004 (23rd to 26th September) > --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" > > William, I would dearly like to join you but cannot decently abandon Su > again as she is not terribly well at present. David > ----- Original Message ----- > From: William Mills > To: > Subject: Europa-List: Last of the Summer Wine - 2004 (23rd to 26th > September) > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" > > > > > A number of DOTHers have expressed an interest in the "Last of the Summer > Wine", end of season, long weekend trip to France, so I am suggesting we > might like to arrange it for Thursday 23rd to Sunday 26th September. Last > year we chased the good weather and visited Chauvigny, Bergerac, > Ill-Doleron, and Honfleur. Most enjoyable with lots of summer wine. > > If anybody is interested, please drop me a line, or phone on 01495 785 > 499. > > Best wishes, > > William > > > > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > Doctors.net.uk e-mail protects you from viruses and unsolicited messages > > ________________________________________________________________________ > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:23:24 PM PST US From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com Subject: Europa-List: Fuel flow computer Q. --> Europa-List message posted by: How have others mounted transducer (s) on the fuel line (s) on 914 installations? Thinking of the fuel-return-line. Regards Gert Dalgaard #151 OY-GDS