---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 09/23/04: 58 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:48 AM - Re: OT: Europa glider pilots (Alan Burrows) 2. 02:56 AM - Re: conventional gear w/glider wings? (Alan Burrows) 3. 04:38 AM - OSH 2004 (John & Amy Eckel) 4. 05:42 AM - Re: OSH 2004 (Joe Proctor) 5. 07:11 AM - Spat Weight? (Nigel Graham) 6. 07:49 AM - EMIL Administrators Report (G-IANI) 7. 07:59 AM - Re: EMIL Administrators Report (Trevpond@aol.com) 8. 08:02 AM - Re: Spat Weight? (ivor.phillips) 9. 08:44 AM - Re: Spat Weight? (Nigel Graham) 10. 08:59 AM - Re: EMIL Administrators Report (DuaneFamly@aol.com) 11. 10:02 AM - Fast delivery from Europa 2004 Ltd (Annalights@aol.com) 12. 10:34 AM - Re: EMIL Administrators Report (Jeremy Davey) 13. 10:53 AM - ARALDITE 420 exp date (Vaughn Teegarden) 14. 10:58 AM - Re: pip pins (David Joyce) 15. 11:06 AM - Re: ARALDITE 420 exp date (ivor.phillips) 16. 11:09 AM - Re: ARALDITE 420 exp date (Jeremy Davey) 17. 11:29 AM - Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft (Peter Rees) 18. 11:31 AM - Re: ARALDITE 420 exp date (Fred R. Klein) 19. 11:50 AM - Re: ARALDITE 420 exp date (R.C.Harrison) 20. 11:55 AM - Re: Spat Weight? (Duncan McFadyean) 21. 11:57 AM - Re: Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft (Jeremy Davey) 22. 12:06 PM - Re: ARALDITE 420 exp date (Rocketman) 23. 12:12 PM - Re: EMIL Administrators Report (Ctogs@aol.com) 24. 12:37 PM - spar pip pin /improved rigg/derigg time (Raimo Toivio) 25. 12:38 PM - flap drive pin viewing hole (s.vestuti) 26. 12:39 PM - Re: Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft (Gerry Holland) 27. 01:02 PM - re : EMIL Administrators Report (s.vestuti) 28. 01:24 PM - Re: Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft (Peter Rees) 29. 01:31 PM - Re: EMIL Administrators Report (Rowland Carson) 30. 01:38 PM - factory contact info (Rowland Carson) 31. 01:40 PM - Re: Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft (Jeremy Davey) 32. 02:00 PM - Contact with Europa (Nigel Harrison) 33. 02:05 PM - Re: Fast delivery from Europa 2004 Ltd (Lmorgan822@aol.com) 34. 02:13 PM - (Lmorgan822@aol.com) 35. 02:39 PM - Re: OT: Europa glider pilots (Augustene Brown) 36. 03:15 PM - Re: Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft (Duncan McFadyean) 37. 03:22 PM - Re: Oshkosh 2004 (Cliff Shaw) 38. 03:32 PM - Re: Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft (Peter Rees) 39. 03:33 PM - Re: ARALDITE 420 exp date (KARL HEINDL) 40. 03:51 PM - Re: re : EMIL Administrators Report (RMRRick@aol.com) 41. 04:17 PM - Re: Spat Weight? (Cliff Shaw) 42. 04:18 PM - Europa Partition and my Conscience. (Tony Renshaw) 43. 04:20 PM - Re: re : EMIL Administrators Report (Lmorgan822@aol.com) 44. 04:25 PM - ddmmyy (Fergus Kyle) 45. 05:13 PM - Re: ARALDITE 420 exp date (Vaughn Teegarden) 46. 05:23 PM - Re: Europa Partition and my Conscience. (Tony Krzyzewski) 47. 06:14 PM - Europas for sale (Robert Berube) 48. 06:14 PM - Re: Europa Partition and my Conscience. (JEFF ROBERTS) 49. 07:12 PM - Re: Europa Partition and my Conscience. () 50. 07:17 PM - Re: Europa Partition and my Conscience. (DJGeldermann) 51. 07:22 PM - Re: ARALDITE 420 exp date (Steve Hagar) 52. 07:29 PM - Re: Europa Partition and my Conscience. (Tony Renshaw) 53. 07:42 PM - Re: (no subject) (DuaneFamly@aol.com) 54. 08:10 PM - Re: Europas for sale () 55. 08:20 PM - Re: Europa Partition and my Conscience. (Paul Boulet) 56. 08:24 PM - Re: Europa Partition and my Conscience. (Fred R. Klein) 57. 08:54 PM - Europa Partition and my Conscience. Cont'd (Tony Renshaw) 58. 09:49 PM - Jpeg Images (Lance Sandford) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:48:46 AM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: RE: Europa-List: OT: Europa glider pilots --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" Hello Augustene Don't know if you remember me but we met at Sun n Fun a couple of years ago, when we took some pictures of you and Jim outside the hanger. I'm sure you've cheered Andy Draper up a lot with that posting as it's the first time he's had that effect on a woman for years :-) I will be over at Ormond Beach next week for a couple of weeks and it would be great to fly over to visit you guys if you are going to be around. Let me know. Kind Regards Alan Burrows -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Augustene Brown Subject: Re: Europa-List: OT: Europa glider pilots --> Europa-List message posted by: Augustene Brown --> I am a passionate glider passenger. Andy Draper treated me to my first glider ride at SnF April 2001 - it was the most awesome experience. My heart still pounds and my knees still get weak when I think about it. I would love to have the glider wings, however, I'm still trying to convince Jim - so far it hasn't worked :-\ Augustene N398JB TELEDYNMCS@aol.com wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com > >In a message dated 9/22/2004 2:58:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >europa-list-digest@matronics.com writes: > > > >>Just wondered what proportion of Europa builders/flyers are really >>glider pilots at heart?? >> >>Hi Paul, >> >>I guess you could call me a glider pilot at heart. I've avidly flown >>hang >>gliders for 25 years and started flying sailplanes 10 years ago. Now, my >>brother and I own a grass strip here in the Sequatchie Valley of East Tennessee and >>I operate a sailplane tow operation out of it. I've logged a little over 100 >>hours so far this year in sailplanes and about 30 hours towing with our >>Pawnee. >> >> > >Do not archive > > >>Regards, >> >>John Lawton >>Dunlap, TN >>A-245 >> >> > > > > == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:56:28 AM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: RE: Europa-List: conventional gear w/glider wings? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" Please sir I am...I am eer mister...I am...( Norman Wisdom lives near me)..:-) Cheers Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Davey Subject: RE: Europa-List: conventional gear w/glider wings? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" --> Joe, I'd say that should be fine. There are already monowheel and trigear versions either flying or under construction. The conventional arrangement has the same wing fittings as the trigear arrangement - so I see no problem whatsoever. I just dont know of anyone building this combination at present. Regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1200 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Joe Proctor Subject: Europa-List: conventional gear w/glider wings? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Joe Proctor" Fellow builders, I have a wonderment that I need cleared up. Is the adaptation of conventional gear ok to use with the glider wings? Has anyone done this or is anyone thinking about it and how much of a change is it. Your thoughts on this Please Gents. Joe Proctor A-272 pjoe2@qwest.net Milwaukie, Oregon == direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. == == == ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:38:55 AM PST US From: "John & Amy Eckel" Subject: Europa-List: OSH 2004 --> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel" Hello All Oshkosh 2004 is on the Wings channel tonight at 8:00 EDT in the USA. Followed by the Dayton Airshow. John, A230 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:42:42 AM PST US From: "Joe Proctor" Subject: Re: Europa-List: OSH 2004 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Joe Proctor" Thank you John. Joe A272 Milwaukie, OR ----- Original Message ----- From: "John & Amy Eckel" Subject: Europa-List: OSH 2004 > --> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel" > > Hello All > Oshkosh 2004 is on the Wings channel tonight at 8:00 EDT > in the USA. Followed by the Dayton Airshow. > > John, A230 > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:11:59 AM PST US From: "Nigel Graham" Subject: Europa-List: Spat Weight? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Graham" Could anybody tell me what is the untrimmed weight (as delivered) of the standard Europa wheel spat/pant please? I have produced a low drag, low weight spat and am intrigued to know how it compares. Nigel ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:49:01 AM PST US From: "G-IANI" Subject: Europa-List: EMIL Administrators Report --> Europa-List message posted by: "G-IANI" Below is a copy of the report to be published in the Europa Flyer describing the outcome of the EMIL administration. By publishing it here we hope it will reach other who are not members. The Europa Club is not, as such, a creditor, and we cannot advise members in any way as to what to do. The Europa Club is not, as such, a creditor, and we cannot advise members in any way as to what to do. >> Europa Management (International) Limited - Administration Report. By my estimate 334 builders, 114 suppliers and 10 employees will have received a 64-page document from Redman Nichols, the administrator. This sets out the financial situation of EMIL in sufficient detail to confuse all but the very brave. What I will try to do here is give this document some sort of meaning. As it is not specifically stated some suppliers may be confused as builders if it is not obvious from the name or other information I have. Your first question is likely to be why did some builders get copies and not others. All the builders and suppliers who are owed money by EMIL, and have made a claim, are included. All builders who subscribed to Europa Product Support/Newsletter are creditors and have been included even though they have not made a separate claim. On the 26th July, the date the administrator took over, EMIL had 446 in the bank. After the sale of the business (87,000), the two UK demonstrators (50,000) and some other adjustments (including paying the last months staff salaries) this left 96,676 for the creditors. This sum goes to Slingsby who were owed 306,846. Overall, Slingsby and all other creditors are still owed 1,035,191 and will receive nothing. The shareholders will receive nothing. It is worth noting that the Europa Management Inc (the US subsidiary) and the two US demonstrator aircraft have not been sold and are not included in these accounts. The staff of EMIL is owed some 80,000 in notice and redundancy which the administrator cannot pay. EMIL had take deposits of over 1,000 from 54 builders. The total amount claimed by builders appears to be 488,000. Of these claims two, from US customers, are in excess of 50,000 and may include damages rather than the cost of items ordered and paid for. Of these claims 15 are for more than 10,000, 7 between 5 and 10,000, 14 between 2,500 and 5,000 and 18 below 2,000. EMIL owed 114 suppliers (excluding Slingsby) some 400,000. Of these HM Customs & Excise (the VAT man) is the biggest claim at 83,744.65 representing VAT on some 478,000 of income, MATCO is owed some 12,000, 7 are between 5,000 and 10,000, 17 between 2,000 and 5,0000 and 88 below 2,000. . So these are the figures. Any comment by me would be superfluous! Ian Rickard Europa Club Committee e-mail mods@europaclub.org.uk or direct g-iani@ntlworld.com ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:59:18 AM PST US From: Trevpond@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: EMIL Administrators Report --> Europa-List message posted by: Trevpond@aol.com Regarding the subject report, I feel sure that those who have a copy will notice that Mr K. Wilson is a preferential creditor to the tune of: =A326,507:60 - what a shame!!!!! Trev Pond Kit 598 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:02:52 AM PST US From: "ivor.phillips" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Spat Weight? --> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" Nigel The main wheel pant is 2lbs 6 oz and the front wheel pant is 1lbs 8 oz , both weighed without fittings Ivor Phillips XS486 London UK > > Could anybody tell me what is the untrimmed weight (as delivered) of the > standard Europa wheel spat/pant please? > I have produced a low drag, low weight spat and am intrigued to know how > it compares. > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 08:44:59 AM PST US From: "Nigel Graham" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Spat Weight? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Graham" Thanks for the quick response Ivor, I'm feeling good now - my main-gear pants have come out at 678 grams each - that's about 1 lb 8 oz each. Nigel ----- Original Message ----- From: "ivor.phillips" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Spat Weight? --> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" Nigel The main wheel pant is 2lbs 6 oz and the front wheel pant is 1lbs 8 oz , both weighed without fittings Ivor Phillips XS486 London UK > > Could anybody tell me what is the untrimmed weight (as delivered) of the > standard Europa wheel spat/pant please? > I have produced a low drag, low weight spat and am intrigued to know how > it compares. > == == == == ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 08:59:55 AM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: EMIL Administrators Report --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com In a message dated 9/23/2004 8:00:52 AM Pacific Standard Time, Trevpond@aol.com writes: Regarding the subject report, I feel sure that those who have a copy will notice that Mr K. Wilson is a preferential creditor to the tune of: =A326,507:60 - what a shame!!!!! Trev, Can this be explained in US English? I hope he got screwed. Do Not Archive Mike Duane A207 Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Just about to put the top on but still finding little things to do before that. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 10:02:37 AM PST US From: Annalights@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Fast delivery from Europa 2004 Ltd --> Europa-List message posted by: Annalights@aol.com Just thought I'd share my recent experience with the new Europa 2004. Ordered some parts last week, posted cheque on Saturday. Parts arrived Tuesday morning. Best service I've ever had from any of the Europa companies. Congratulations Andy and Roger, excellent service. Patrick Griffin G PATZ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:34:34 AM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: EMIL Administrators Report --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" (One of these days we'll get Matt Dralle to change his server so that it copes with common symbols from around the world!) =A32 is the code it turns a good old pound sign into. So the sum lost by Mr. K. Wilson is GBP6,507.60 - about USD11,300 at current rates. Cheers, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1200 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: EMIL Administrators Report --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com In a message dated 9/23/2004 8:00:52 AM Pacific Standard Time, Trevpond@aol.com writes: Regarding the subject report, I feel sure that those who have a copy will notice that Mr K. Wilson is a preferential creditor to the tune of: =A326,507:60 - what a shame!!!!! Trev, Can this be explained in US English? I hope he got screwed. Do Not Archive Mike Duane A207 Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Just about to put the top on but still finding little things to do before that. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 10:53:57 AM PST US From: "Vaughn Teegarden" Subject: Europa-List: ARALDITE 420 exp date --> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn Teegarden" I have recently purchased a partially completed kit and will soon be looking forward to bonding the top on the wings and canoe. There are unopened containers of 420A and hardener with an expiration date of 05-04-03. This stuff is from the right side of the pond and I am unsure how they arrange their numerals. Are they the same as here in the USA? Vaughn Teegarden Still figuring out exactly where I am ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:13 AM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Re: Europa-List: pip pins --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" Fred, the factory was happy to sell me an extra one and the PFA approved its use. I have them individually adjusted with washers to make a close fit to the back of the spar and they are red or green painted together with the socket surround to avoid misfitting them. Regards, David Joyce, G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: Fred R. Klein Subject: Europa-List: pip pins > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" > > Bob, > > Thanks for your efforts on all our behalfs. > > Seems I recall some postings related to using two pip pins rather than the > one supplied + the "bolt with a handle". > > Is there some consensus or factory-blessing on this? > > Fred A194 > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Doctors.net.uk e-mail protects you from viruses and unsolicited messages > ________________________________________________________________________ > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 11:06:09 AM PST US From: "ivor.phillips" Subject: Re: Europa-List: ARALDITE 420 exp date --> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" Vaughn It expired in April 2003 Ivor Phillips XS486 London UK Subject: Europa-List: ARALDITE 420 exp date > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn Teegarden" > > > I have recently purchased a partially completed kit and will soon be > looking forward to bonding the top on the wings and canoe. There are > unopened containers of 420A and hardener with an expiration date of > 05-04-03. This stuff is from the right side of the pond and I am unsure > how they arrange their numerals. Are they the same as here in the USA? > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 11:09:10 AM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: ARALDITE 420 exp date --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Vaughn, We Europeans work in DD-MM-YY format. So your Redux is about 18 months out of date. Regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1200 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vaughn Teegarden Subject: Europa-List: ARALDITE 420 exp date --> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn Teegarden" I have recently purchased a partially completed kit and will soon be looking forward to bonding the top on the wings and canoe. There are unopened containers of 420A and hardener with an expiration date of 05-04-03. This stuff is from the right side of the pond and I am unsure how they arrange their numerals. Are they the same as here in the USA? Vaughn Teegarden Still figuring out exactly where I am ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:29:22 AM PST US From: "Peter Rees" Subject: Europa-List: Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" Just spoke to my inspector this evening about putting a Dynon EFIS into our Europa. He says that it needs PFA approval. Does anyone know if this is recognised as an acceptable unit to put in a permit aircraft? If so, how do I demonstrate to my inspector that its OK with the PFA so that he can sign off the installation. If its not been recognised (but not specifically rejected by them in the past), how do I go about proposing the unit. Peter G-MFHI ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:31:46 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: ARALDITE 420 exp date From: "Fred R. Klein" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" All, John Hurst has opined that the Araldite 420 exp. date can be taken with a grain of salt; does anyone with some specific expertise concur? Fred A194 on 9/23/04 10:05 AM, ivor.phillips at ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" > > > Vaughn > > It expired in April 2003 > > Ivor Phillips > XS486 London UK > Subject: Europa-List: ARALDITE 420 exp date > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn Teegarden" >> >> >> I have recently purchased a partially completed kit and will soon be >> looking forward to bonding the top on the wings and canoe. There are >> unopened containers of 420A and hardener with an expiration date of >> 05-04-03. This stuff is from the right side of the pond and I am unsure >> how they arrange their numerals. Are they the same as here in the USA? >> > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 11:50:02 AM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: Re: Europa-List: ARALDITE 420 exp date --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Fred. If Araldite 420 is what was Redux my perception is that it is particulaly sensitive to freezing effects. If you bought the kit are you confident it was always in a warm environment? Redux paste could be regenerated by melting the crystaline aged paste. However for date info it is best to ask professionals (who don't stand to make a buck from you by selling replacement) in the know depending if you are needing to use it on structural work. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred R. Klein" Subject: Re: Europa-List: ARALDITE 420 exp date > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" > > All, > > John Hurst has opined that the Araldite 420 exp. date can be taken with a > grain of salt; does anyone with some specific expertise concur? > > Fred > A194 > > on 9/23/04 10:05 AM, ivor.phillips at ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com wrote: > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" > > > > > > Vaughn > > > > It expired in April 2003 > > > > Ivor Phillips > > XS486 London UK > > Subject: Europa-List: ARALDITE 420 exp date > > > > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn Teegarden" > >> > >> > >> I have recently purchased a partially completed kit and will soon be > >> looking forward to bonding the top on the wings and canoe. There are > >> unopened containers of 420A and hardener with an expiration date of > >> 05-04-03. This stuff is from the right side of the pond and I am unsure > >> how they arrange their numerals. Are they the same as here in the USA? > >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 11:55:06 AM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Spat Weight? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" Don't know. But my light weight low drag spats weigh 24oz each (i.e. total for both halves for one side). I would anticipate a glass Factory spat to be double that (i.e. 3lbs). The Spruce catalogue gives weights too. Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nigel Graham" Subject: Europa-List: Spat Weight? > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Graham" > > Could anybody tell me what is the untrimmed weight (as delivered) of the > standard Europa wheel spat/pant please? > I have produced a low drag, low weight spat and am intrigued to know how > it compares. > > Nigel > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 11:57:09 AM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Peter, Are you thinking of installing it instead of some the mandatory steam gauges, or just as a supplement? Regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1200 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Rees Subject: Europa-List: Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" Just spoke to my inspector this evening about putting a Dynon EFIS into our Europa. He says that it needs PFA approval. Does anyone know if this is recognised as an acceptable unit to put in a permit aircraft? If so, how do I demonstrate to my inspector that its OK with the PFA so that he can sign off the installation. If its not been recognised (but not specifically rejected by them in the past), how do I go about proposing the unit. Peter G-MFHI ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 12:06:45 PM PST US From: Rocketman Subject: Re: Europa-List: ARALDITE 420 exp date --> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman Fred R. Klein wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" > >All, > >John Hurst has opined that the Araldite 420 exp. date can be taken with a >grain of salt; does anyone with some specific expertise concur? > >Fred >A194 > My stuff was over 2 years out of date, so I did some unofficial testing, on my own. The mixture will delaminate fiberglass layups, so I felt safe using it, and did... -- Jeff - A055 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 12:12:22 PM PST US From: Ctogs@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: EMIL Administrators Report --> Europa-List message posted by: Ctogs@aol.com Do the administrators know where the circa 1.3 mil owed went and whether they were trading whilst insolvent ? Roger ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 12:37:14 PM PST US From: "Raimo Toivio" Subject: Europa-List: spar pip pin /improved rigg/derigg time --> Europa-List message posted by: "Raimo Toivio" Hi All! As you remember, I managed to broke my spar pip pin. After all, I have adjusted things from there and there and now all the three (x2) bushes (cpm, 2xspar) are exactly in same line and parallel with each others. Today I managed to rigg her easily and spent less than 5 minutes and did it totally alone. I was able to insert my (rented from Jos so far) spar pip pin by my one hand only and w/o hammer. The order between pins was also important: 1) port spar in 2) both pins half way 3) stbd spar in 4) pip pin fully inserted 5) plain pin fully inserted Many thanks for all the tips I got. I hope this will help some of you also. Regards, Raimo M W Toivio OH-XRT #417 OH-CVK OH-BLL 37500 Lempaala Finland tel + 358 3 3753 777 fax + 358 3 3753 100 gsm + 358 40 590 1450 raimo.toivio@rwm.fi www.rwm.fi ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:38:44 PM PST US From: "s.vestuti" Subject: Europa-List: flap drive pin viewing hole --> Europa-List message posted by: "s.vestuti" hello all, i`m just coming to the end of building the flap root extensions and was just wandering what other builders have fitted - if at all - over or under the sight access hole for the flap xtube to flap drive pin , i believe this applies to classic builders as well . i don`t really want to fit perspex as suggested in the manual - has anyone fitted glass ? thanks in advance # 573 xs tri. ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:39:47 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft From: Gerry Holland --> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland Peter Hi! > If so, how do I demonstrate to my inspector that its OK with the PFA so that > he can sign off the installation. > > If its not been recognised (but not specifically rejected by them in the > past), how do I go about proposing the unit. I am fitting a Dynon too. On the basis that minimal Instruments are required by a PFA permit Aircraft I cannot see why they should object. I am fitting ASI and Altimeter as well as Dynon and I'm hopeful that will suffice (Of course.... I could be wrong!). With the Main Buss Switched off the Dynon can continue to run for 2 hours from its internal Lithium Battery. Regards Gerry ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 01:02:06 PM PST US From: "s.vestuti" Subject: Europa-List: re : EMIL Administrators Report --> Europa-List message posted by: "s.vestuti" well, if that is uk =A3 then someone`s had a bargain - " the two UK demonstrators (50,000) " , i wonder why the demonstrators were sold so cheap at 25000 each ? # 573 xs tri. ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 01:24:39 PM PST US From: "Peter Rees" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" Sorry, should have been clearer in stating my intentions - the AC currently has an ASI, VSI, Alt and turn coordinator. It has no AH or DI. I can either fit a vacuum kit and steam instruments - lots of weight and old fashioned or, save up for ever and buy electric instruments or put a Dynon in - light, modern and not essential to flight safety so if it does go U/S, not a safety issue. I'm hoping its not going to be an issue - just wanted to see what people though and of course if anyone has actually got one flying on a permit AC in the UK. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > > Peter, > > Are you thinking of installing it instead of some the mandatory steam > gauges, or just as a supplement? > > Regards, > Jeremy > > Jeremy Davey > Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA > Tail done > Standard XS wings with mods underway > CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) > 1200 build hours to date > Intended fit: > Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop > Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Rees > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" > > Just spoke to my inspector this evening about putting a Dynon EFIS into our > Europa. He says that it needs PFA approval. Does anyone know if this is > recognised as an acceptable unit to put in a permit aircraft? > > If so, how do I demonstrate to my inspector that its OK with the PFA so that > he can sign off the installation. > > If its not been recognised (but not specifically rejected by them in the > past), how do I go about proposing the unit. > > Peter > > G-MFHI > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 01:31:53 PM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: Re: Europa-List: EMIL Administrators Report --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson At 2004-09-23 10:58 -0400 Trevpond@aol.com wrote: >Regarding the subject report, I feel sure that those who have a copy will >notice that Mr K. Wilson is a preferential creditor to the tune of: >=A326,507:60 My copy shows KW among the UNSECURED creditors with 26507.60 UK pounds, and also among the PREFERENTIAL creditors (mostly the former employees) with 4261.52. The pages are not numbered so it's easy to get lost! Many e-mail processes turn the UK pound sign into the string "=A3", so strip those characters off to get the number of pounds. To avoid the problem with the pound symbol, many people use "UKP" or other character combinations that fall within the 127-characer low-ASCII range. regards Rowland -- | Wilma & Rowland Carson | ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:11 PM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: Europa-List: factory contact info --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE - SEE INSTRUCTIONS BELOW The Europa Club has been asked to help the new factory management re-establish contact with all Europa builders and owners. It appears that some information about the most recent US customers was not copied to the UK office before the US operation had to close down, and other information may be missing or out-of-date. I shall be passing to Andy Draper and his colleagues a list of all the contact information I have at present, but would be happy to ensure that any other "orphaned" Europa people (anywhere in the world) are also included. Since John Hurst last sent me a builder list from the Florida office, I've noted several new US-based builders posting to this e-mail list, and have tried to add their e-mail addresses to my records. However, there are quite a few gaps from kit # A238 upwards. Until the factory can restore their own e-mail and website addresses to normal working order, I'm very happy to act as relay for anyone wishing to be added to the customer database of Europa 2004 Ltd. That will _not_ commit you to anything (such as factory newsletter subscription, Europa Club subscription, etc) - it is purely to facilitate the re-establishment of links between the new company and the customers of the former company, so that various obligations such as airworthiness matters can be communicated effectively, and open the channel for parts supply, etc. Obviously current paid-up members of The Europa Club need not respond to this notice; their details should all be up-to-date in the Club records. Now the really hard part - DO NOT REPLY TO THIS MESSAGE! The whole population of the Matronics e-mail list does not need to know your contact details! To pass information, please use this e-mail address: Copy it, then create a new blank e-mail message. Paste the address into the "TO:" header box, then in the body of the message, type your kit number together with your own e-mail address, phone number or street address as desired. I will confirm receipt of all such messages. regards Rowland PS - anyone who can't follow the above instructions will get flagged "Don't ride in this guy's aeroplane!" :-) -- | Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary - email for info! | Europa 435 G-ROWI (710 hours building) PFA #16532 | e-mail website ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 01:40:06 PM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Peter, Thanks for the details. I can't see why Engineering approval is required - perhaps your Inspector is confusing it with requirements when there are no old-style instruments? You have the required minimum instrumentation without the Dynon (you dont mention a compass, but I assume you have that) for day VFR. If I were you, I'd call Engineering and ask them directly - and I'd be grateful if you could inform me of the outcome. If unnecessary impositions are being made on us by PFA Engineering, I'm very happy to take that case up in EC and NC. Cheers, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1200 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Rees Subject: Re: Europa-List: Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" Sorry, should have been clearer in stating my intentions - the AC currently has an ASI, VSI, Alt and turn coordinator. It has no AH or DI. I can either fit a vacuum kit and steam instruments - lots of weight and old fashioned or, save up for ever and buy electric instruments or put a Dynon in - light, modern and not essential to flight safety so if it does go U/S, not a safety issue. I'm hoping its not going to be an issue - just wanted to see what people though and of course if anyone has actually got one flying on a permit AC in the UK. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > > Peter, > > Are you thinking of installing it instead of some the mandatory steam > gauges, or just as a supplement? > > Regards, > Jeremy > > Jeremy Davey > Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA > Tail done > Standard XS wings with mods underway > CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) > 1200 build hours to date > Intended fit: > Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop > Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Rees > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" > > Just spoke to my inspector this evening about putting a Dynon EFIS into our > Europa. He says that it needs PFA approval. Does anyone know if this is > recognised as an acceptable unit to put in a permit aircraft? > > If so, how do I demonstrate to my inspector that its OK with the PFA so that > he can sign off the installation. > > If its not been recognised (but not specifically rejected by them in the > past), how do I go about proposing the unit. > > Peter > > G-MFHI > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 02:00:29 PM PST US From: "Nigel Harrison" Subject: Europa-List: Contact with Europa --> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Harrison" Dear All, I spoke to Roger at Europa today. They are aware of the problems with their email. It stems from their old email being on ISDN and their need to change to Broadband. This changeover is under way, but is not complete yet. If you have any orders or need to communicate in writing he suggests you fax to their usual (old) fax number. Regards Nigel Harrison #584 - somewhere in Yorkshire, I think ************************************************************* This email has been scanned by the Manxnet Mail Plus anti-virus system. http://www.manx.net/default.asp?id=25 ************************************************************* ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 02:05:43 PM PST US From: Lmorgan822@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fast delivery from Europa 2004 Ltd --> Europa-List message posted by: Lmorgan822@aol.com Nice to hear that someone is getting some service. I paid in full for an airplane and this morning was basically told, "tough luck"!!!!! YOU LOSE!!!!!!!!!!!! Larry Morgan ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 02:13:27 PM PST US From: Lmorgan822@aol.com --> Europa-List message posted by: Lmorgan822@aol.com Wilson was trading while insovent and in fact tried to sell me a FWF kit for half price as late as June 6 of this year. I have paid for phase II and III received nothing and was told this AM by Europa, "tough" you lose!!!!!!! ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 02:39:27 PM PST US From: Augustene Brown Subject: Re: Europa-List: OT: Europa glider pilots --> Europa-List message posted by: Augustene Brown Of course I remember you Alan...I'm afraid you've seen right through me. I've been enamored of Andy for many years - just please don't let Jim and Gerry know - it's my secret ;-) You may not have a beach to come to next week - it looks as though Hurricane Jeanne will be coming ashore on Saturday or Sunday somewhere on our east coast, probably around West Palm, and travel north through central FL. If that prediction holds it will take her directly over us, and that means at least we will need to board up and possibly evacuate. I'll provide you with some phone numbers and directions off forum. Augustene N398JB Alan Burrows wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" > >Hello Augustene >Don't know if you remember me but we met at Sun n Fun a couple of years >ago, when we took some pictures of you and Jim outside the hanger. I'm >sure you've cheered Andy Draper up a lot with that posting as it's the >first time he's had that effect on a woman for years :-) >I will be over at Ormond Beach next week for a couple of weeks and it >would be great to fly over to visit you guys if you are going to be >around. Let me know. >Kind Regards >Alan Burrows > >-----Original Message----- >From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Augustene >Brown >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Europa-List: OT: Europa glider pilots > > >--> Europa-List message posted by: Augustene Brown >--> > >I am a passionate glider passenger. Andy Draper treated me to my first >glider ride at SnF April 2001 - it was the most awesome experience. My > >heart still pounds and my knees still get weak when I think about it. > >I would love to have the glider wings, however, I'm still trying to >convince Jim - so far it hasn't worked :-\ > >Augustene > >N398JB > >TELEDYNMCS@aol.com wrote: > > > >>--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com >> >>In a message dated 9/22/2004 2:58:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time, >>europa-list-digest@matronics.com writes: >> >> >> >> >> >>>Just wondered what proportion of Europa builders/flyers are really >>>glider pilots at heart?? >>> >>>Hi Paul, >>> >>>I guess you could call me a glider pilot at heart. I've avidly flown >>>hang >>>gliders for 25 years and started flying sailplanes 10 years ago. Now, >>> >>> >my > > >>>brother and I own a grass strip here in the Sequatchie Valley of East >>> >>> >Tennessee and > > >>>I operate a sailplane tow operation out of it. I've logged a little >>> >>> >over 100 > > >>>hours so far this year in sailplanes and about 30 hours towing with >>> >>> >our > > >>>Pawnee. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>Do not archive >> >> >> >> >>>Regards, >>> >>>John Lawton >>>Dunlap, TN >>>A-245 >>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> > > >== >direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. >== >== >== > > > > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 03:15:48 PM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" A point to consider would be WHERE the steam driven "back-up" instruments are located. If on the S'bd. side of the panel, then they can hardly be the primary instruments and wouldn't be very practical to use. Of course I could have got this wrong; the EFIS is just a back-up, right?. Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > > Peter, > > Thanks for the details. > > I can't see why Engineering approval is required - perhaps your Inspector is > confusing it with requirements when there are no old-style instruments? You > have the required minimum instrumentation without the Dynon (you dont > mention a compass, but I assume you have that) for day VFR. > > If I were you, I'd call Engineering and ask them directly - and I'd be > grateful if you could inform me of the outcome. If unnecessary impositions > are being made on us by PFA Engineering, I'm very happy to take that case up > in EC and NC. > > Cheers, > Jeremy > > Jeremy Davey > Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA > Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative > PFA EC Member > Tail done > Standard XS wings with mods underway > CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) > 1200 build hours to date > Intended fit: > Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop > Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Rees > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" > > Sorry, should have been clearer in stating my intentions - the AC currently > has an ASI, VSI, Alt and turn coordinator. > > It has no AH or DI. I can either fit a vacuum kit and steam instruments - > lots of weight and old fashioned or, save up for ever and buy electric > instruments or put a Dynon in - light, modern and not essential to flight > safety so if it does go U/S, not a safety issue. > > I'm hoping its not going to be an issue - just wanted to see what people > though and of course if anyone has actually got one flying on a permit AC in > the UK. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeremy Davey" > To: > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > > > > Peter, > > > > Are you thinking of installing it instead of some the mandatory steam > > gauges, or just as a supplement? > > > > Regards, > > Jeremy > > > > Jeremy Davey > > Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA > > Tail done > > Standard XS wings with mods underway > > CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) > > 1200 build hours to date > > Intended fit: > > Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop > > Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Rees > > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Europa-List: Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" > > > > > Just spoke to my inspector this evening about putting a Dynon EFIS into > our > > Europa. He says that it needs PFA approval. Does anyone know if this is > > recognised as an acceptable unit to put in a permit aircraft? > > > > If so, how do I demonstrate to my inspector that its OK with the PFA so > that > > he can sign off the installation. > > > > If its not been recognised (but not specifically rejected by them in the > > past), how do I go about proposing the unit. > > > > Peter > > > > G-MFHI > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 03:22:08 PM PST US From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Oshkosh 2004 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" Yup ! That is "Wile E. Coyote", N229WC, in the background. Betty and I had the greatest vacation trip of our young lives this summer. Cliff > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Craig Ellison" > > > All, > > I don't know if anyone has mentioned before this but I believe that a > photo > of Cliff's Europa tri-gear made it into Flying's Oshkosh round-up. Page > 56, > top left background. Congratulations Cliff! > > Please correct me if I'm wrong. > > Hoping to be there soon in a flying Europa, > > Craig Ellison ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 03:32:27 PM PST US From: "Peter Rees" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" The steam instruments are in the standard T positions but the centre 2 slots where the AI and DI normall go are vacant. I would use the ASI and ALT as primary instruments - much quicker to set the ALT between QFE and QNH with a knob than playing with buttons. The ASI being analogue is much easier to glance at and get an idea if you are fast or slow. Trends are much easier to see on analogue instruments too. The ASI / Alt features on the Dynon would indeed be a backup to these steam instruments (if used at all) - the Dynon would be the primary attitude indicator (other than the turn coordinator) and the primary DI (backed up by the compas and skymap GPS). As there is no statutory requirement for a DI / AH and the aircraft has the mandatory instruments (and more), personally I can't see why the PFA would object but, I've not been through the exercise (yet) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" > > A point to consider would be WHERE the steam driven "back-up" instruments > are located. If on the S'bd. side of the panel, then they can hardly be the > primary instruments and wouldn't be very practical to use. > > Of course I could have got this wrong; the EFIS is just a back-up, right?. > > > Duncan McF. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeremy Davey" > To: > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > > > > Peter, > > > > Thanks for the details. > > > > I can't see why Engineering approval is required - perhaps your Inspector > is > > confusing it with requirements when there are no old-style instruments? > You > > have the required minimum instrumentation without the Dynon (you dont > > mention a compass, but I assume you have that) for day VFR. > > > > If I were you, I'd call Engineering and ask them directly - and I'd be > > grateful if you could inform me of the outcome. If unnecessary impositions > > are being made on us by PFA Engineering, I'm very happy to take that case > up > > in EC and NC. > > > > Cheers, > > Jeremy > > > > Jeremy Davey > > Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA > > Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative > > PFA EC Member > > Tail done > > Standard XS wings with mods underway > > CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) > > 1200 build hours to date > > Intended fit: > > Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop > > Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Rees > > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" > > > > > Sorry, should have been clearer in stating my intentions - the AC > currently > > has an ASI, VSI, Alt and turn coordinator. > > > > It has no AH or DI. I can either fit a vacuum kit and steam instruments - > > lots of weight and old fashioned or, save up for ever and buy electric > > instruments or put a Dynon in - light, modern and not essential to flight > > safety so if it does go U/S, not a safety issue. > > > > I'm hoping its not going to be an issue - just wanted to see what people > > though and of course if anyone has actually got one flying on a permit AC > in > > the UK. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Jeremy Davey" > > To: > > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft > > > > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > > > > > > > Peter, > > > > > > Are you thinking of installing it instead of some the mandatory steam > > > gauges, or just as a supplement? > > > > > > Regards, > > > Jeremy > > > > > > Jeremy Davey > > > Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA > > > Tail done > > > Standard XS wings with mods underway > > > CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) > > > 1200 build hours to date > > > Intended fit: > > > Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop > > > Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > > > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Rees > > > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > > Subject: Europa-List: Use of a Dynon in a Permit Aircraft > > > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" > > > > > > > > Just spoke to my inspector this evening about putting a Dynon EFIS into > > our > > > Europa. He says that it needs PFA approval. Does anyone know if this is > > > recognised as an acceptable unit to put in a permit aircraft? > > > > > > If so, how do I demonstrate to my inspector that its OK with the PFA so > > that > > > he can sign off the installation. > > > > > > If its not been recognised (but not specifically rejected by them in the > > > past), how do I go about proposing the unit. > > > > > > Peter > > > > > > G-MFHI > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 39 ____________________________________ Time: 03:33:08 PM PST US From: "KARL HEINDL" Subject: RE: Europa-List: ARALDITE 420 exp date --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" Pretty much the whole world uses date format D/M/Y, except the US. I am still using redux which is now 4 years out of date and seems as strong as ever. I had to soften the yellow part in a pot of hot water to melt the crystals. Karl From: "Vaughn Teegarden" VRTEEGARDEN@peoplepc.com Subject: Europa-List: ARALDITE 420 exp date -- Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn Teegarden" VRTEEGARDEN@peoplepc.com I have recently purchased apartially completed kit and will soon be looking forward to bonding the top on the wings and canoe. There are unopened containers of 420A and hardener with an expiration date of 05-04-03. This stuff is from the right side of the pond and I am unsurehow they arrange their numerals. Are they the same as here in the USA? Vaughn Teegarden Still figuring out exactly where I am ________________________________ Message 40 ____________________________________ Time: 03:51:57 PM PST US From: RMRRick@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: re : EMIL Administrators Report --> Europa-List message posted by: RMRRick@aol.com What rubbish. How could the administrators not know the 2 demo planes were worth a lot more? Surely they should apply due diligence. I would guess at between 37 and 40 thousand UK pounds for G-KITS. Who bought them so cheap I wonder! Rick Morris G-RIKS ________________________________ Message 41 ____________________________________ Time: 04:17:22 PM PST US From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Spat Weight? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" Nigel I figured my set of two mains and a nose pant weighed 6 lb. Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 > Could anybody tell me what is the untrimmed weight (as delivered) of the > standard Europa wheel spat/pant please? > I have produced a low drag, low weight spat and am intrigued to know how > it compares. > > Nigel ________________________________ Message 42 ____________________________________ Time: 04:18:49 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Europa-List: Europa Partition and my Conscience. --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw Gidday, At the expense of compromising my continued parts supply from Europa I would like to make the following observations. Luckily for me I have most of what I need. I really struggle with my conscience to think that I can continue my build sourcing the last of the bits from Europa 2004 and yet have the knowledge someone else's life dream has gone down the toilet. I think we should unite and tell Europa 2004 that until the outstanding kit builders have their parts supplied, we are not going to support the new company! Simple isn't it, and it gives guys like Larry Morgan some hope. There is one other issue, how are we going to pay for our bits in the future? Are we going to pay in advance like before, prior to delivery? I should think this would be unwise. So, before Europa tell us this is the way it is going to be, maybe we should tell Europa 2004 how we want it, need it. In case there are those out there who still are of the view that we should keep our heads down and let Europa 2004 get on with it, I haven't received a personal e-mail from the company. In today's world this is unacceptable not to have received a statement of intent of the new business. Rowland Carlson is telling everyone that Europa has lost all of our e-mail addresses because of a transfer to broadband. Might I suggest that the computers that used to hold those e-mails have been squirrelled away and are gone along with their contents. For Europa itself to not be making a general broadcast to the list requesting this information suggests potential "less than ideal management" already. I want a response to whether a partition is appropriate, where everyone including those outside the Europa Club can air their collective desire to partition Europa 2004 for the parts supply outstanding prior to our support. Simple, and fair. Doesn't seem to be a lot of fairness and honour any more. Peeves me a tad. At 07:05 AM 9/24/2004, you wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: Lmorgan822@aol.com > >Nice to hear that someone is getting some service. I paid in full for an >airplane and this morning was basically told, "tough luck"!!!!! YOU >LOSE!!!!!!!!!!!! > >Larry Morgan > > Reg Tony Renshaw Sydney Australia Classic 236 B.B. Taildragger Tail, Wings, Ailerons, Flaps Complete and Connected Lower Fuse in Jig, and module most recently installed. Tail Torque Tube installed. Mass Balance assembly installed and deflections sorted Roof Panel between doors completed. Photos at: http://forum.okhuijsen.org/TonyR Intended Engine: 912S CS prop (model undecided) Instrumentation: Garmin 296 Colour GPS beneath an electronic Artificial Horizon, one that I can trust for short periods IMC, to get out of a sticky situation ________________________________ Message 43 ____________________________________ Time: 04:20:13 PM PST US From: Lmorgan822@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: re : EMIL Administrators Report --> Europa-List message posted by: Lmorgan822@aol.com typical of this whole rotten mess. The whole thing SMELLS! ________________________________ Message 44 ____________________________________ Time: 04:25:27 PM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Europa-List: ddmmyy --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" Pretty much the whole world uses date format D/M/Y, except the US. Right. It was used by the British and Canadian forces defending Canada a couple of hundred years ago or so - and is the standard system. When the MM/DD/YY started I don't know, but I do know it's been established by US banks because of monthly interest at that time, and it's being flogged daily in Canada to the point where the givvermink (including the traditional forces) had to change to YY-MM-DD. 911 is an emergency telephone number in many places, not a date. The proper date is 1109. How about 11SEP01or even 11SE01? Shorter, clearer, easier. Ferg ________________________________ Message 45 ____________________________________ Time: 05:13:36 PM PST US From: "Vaughn Teegarden" Subject: Re: Europa-List: ARALDITE 420 exp date --> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn Teegarden" Thanks for all the replys and information. I do know that the person that I bought it from kept it in a chest with a light bulb hooked up to a thermostat, as I intend to do. (happen to have an unused thermostat laying around) It looks good, so I will try a test piece to determine if I need to throw it out. Vaughn Teegarden Getting closer to rolling up the sleeves ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vaughn Teegarden" Subject: Europa-List: ARALDITE 420 exp date > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn Teegarden" > > I have recently purchased a partially completed kit and will soon be looking forward to bonding the top on the wings and canoe. There are unopened containers of 420A and hardener with an expiration date of 05-04-03. This stuff is from the right side of the pond and I am unsure how they arrange their numerals. Are they the same as here in the USA? > > Vaughn Teegarden > Still figuring out exactly where I am > > ________________________________ Message 46 ____________________________________ Time: 05:23:22 PM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa Partition and my Conscience. From: "Tony Krzyzewski" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Krzyzewski" >> I want a response to whether a partition is appropriate, where everyone including those outside the Europa Club can air their collective desire to partition Europa 2004 for the parts supply outstanding prior to our support. Simple, and fair. Fact: Europa 2004 is a completely different business entity from EMIL. Europa 2004 paid money to acquire some of the assets of EMIL but you cannot make any assumption that items such as customer records, computer systems and accounting records were part of that acquisition. Without the records, or as it seems, even an operational internet connection as of yet, I think it'd be very hard for Europa 2004 to send personalised emails let alone letters to existing customers. As with any company ceasing to trade and having its assets purchased by a new company, the new company has no responsibility for the losses of the previous company. This has been a business principal in most western countries for many years. I think that it's great that a bunch of people had enough faith in the Europa aircraft design to get together enough funds to be able to form a company. I have no doubt that some of these people have probably stretched their financial resources to get Europa 2004 up and running. I for one applaud their actions and intend supporting them in any way possible. Without our support Europa 2004 won't exist and we, as builders and owners of Europa aircraft, will be far worse off for it. Tony ________________________________ Message 47 ____________________________________ Time: 06:14:32 PM PST US From: "Robert Berube" Subject: Europa-List: Europas for sale --> Europa-List message posted by: "Robert Berube" It may be of interest to potential Europa Builders that Flight Crafters does have several kits available from unstarted to completed aircraft. These aircraft offer a great value to future owners with substantially reduced pricing. We would be happy to assist in packing and shipping to any country. Contact us offline for information. All the best to everyone, Bob Berube Flight Crafters ________________________________ Message 48 ____________________________________ Time: 06:14:53 PM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Partition and my Conscience. --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS On Sep 23, 2004, at 6:18 PM, Tony Renshaw wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw > > > and yet have the knowledge someone else's life dream > has gone down the toilet. I think we should unite and tell Europa 2004 > that > until the outstanding kit builders have their parts supplied, we are > not > going to support the new company! Simple isn't it, and it gives guys > like > Larry Morgan some hope. I am with this Idea 100%. I am nearing the end of my build but I know if it was me on the other end of the stick and lost every penny I saved for this dream, I would be devistated! Not to mention what my wife would say. Receiving the support of Europa builders around the world be one of the best things that ever happened to me. > In case there are those out there who still are of the view that we > should > keep our heads down and let Europa 2004 get on with it, I haven't > received > a personal e-mail from the company. In today's world this is > unacceptable > It would be nice to receive an up-dated direct statement from the 2004 boys. Wouldn't take much to say hello to the builders on this forum. > > Jeff A258 > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > _- > ======================================================================= > > > > ________________________________ Message 49 ____________________________________ Time: 07:12:23 PM PST US From: Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa Partition and my Conscience. --> Europa-List message posted by: Ah, Tony, you stole my thoughts and the post I was about to make. On the other hand, I would hope that the new owners would do what they can for the poor souls that have paid and not received. Such as anything at their absolute cost, helping with any legal claims against EMIL, and even better. Those of us who have extras, duplicates, unused can offer what we can. Any other generosity will be helpful, I am sure. Tom A079, California -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tony Krzyzewski Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa Partition and my Conscience. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Krzyzewski" >> I want a response to whether a partition is appropriate, where everyone including those outside the Europa Club can air their collective desire to partition Europa 2004 for the parts supply outstanding prior to our support. Simple, and fair. Fact: Europa 2004 is a completely different business entity from EMIL. Europa 2004 paid money to acquire some of the assets of EMIL but you cannot make any assumption that items such as customer records, computer systems and accounting records were part of that acquisition. Without the records, or as it seems, even an operational internet connection as of yet, I think it'd be very hard for Europa 2004 to send personalised emails let alone letters to existing customers. As with any company ceasing to trade and having its assets purchased by a new company, the new company has no responsibility for the losses of the previous company. This has been a business principal in most western countries for many years. I think that it's great that a bunch of people had enough faith in the Europa aircraft design to get together enough funds to be able to form a company. I have no doubt that some of these people have probably stretched their financial resources to get Europa 2004 up and running. I for one applaud their actions and intend supporting them in any way possible. Without our support Europa 2004 won't exist and we, as builders and owners of Europa aircraft, will be far worse off for it. Tony == == == == ________________________________ Message 50 ____________________________________ Time: 07:17:29 PM PST US From: "DJGeldermann" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Partition and my Conscience. --> Europa-List message posted by: "DJGeldermann" Just an idea (and a potential headache for Europa Club Officers to arrange details, track and dispense), but I would voluntarily pay the Europa Club an extra $25 per year above dues to pool with other donations. The Club could then send it off proportionately to those who paid for parts and received nothing. A little from a bunch of us each year might start to add up over time. This would be more productive than boycotting the new company. Dan A-139 ----- Original Message ----- From: "JEFF ROBERTS" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Partition and my Conscience. > --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS > > > On Sep 23, 2004, at 6:18 PM, Tony Renshaw wrote: > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw > > > > > > and yet have the knowledge someone else's life dream > > has gone down the toilet. I think we should unite and tell Europa 2004 > > that > > until the outstanding kit builders have their parts supplied, we are > > not > > going to support the new company! Simple isn't it, and it gives guys > > like > > Larry Morgan some hope. > I am with this Idea 100%. I am nearing the end of my build but I know > if it was me on the other end of the stick and lost every penny I saved > for this dream, I would be devistated! Not to mention what my wife > would say. Receiving the support of Europa builders around the world be > one of the best things that ever happened to me. > > > In case there are those out there who still are of the view that we > > should > > keep our heads down and let Europa 2004 get on with it, I haven't > > received > > a personal e-mail from the company. In today's world this is > > unacceptable > > > It would be nice to receive an up-dated direct statement from the 2004 > boys. Wouldn't take much to say hello to the builders on this forum. > > > > > Jeff > A258 > > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > _- > > ======================================================================= > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 51 ____________________________________ Time: 07:22:23 PM PST US From: "Steve Hagar" Subject: Re: Europa-List: ARALDITE 420 exp date --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" Fred: For the most part that is true. To allay your fears make a sample lap shear test coupon. Lay up some fiberglass in a thickness that you are planning on using the actual adhesive on. Make 2 layups at least an inch wide and make a lap joint. Pull it to destruction. If the fiberglass breaks before the joint you can find a degree of satisfaction that the adhesive is good. Steve Hagar A143 Mesa AZ > [Original Message] > From: Fred R. Klein > To: > Date: 9/23/2004 11:31:42 AM > Subject: Re: Europa-List: ARALDITE 420 exp date > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" > > All, > > John Hurst has opined that the Araldite 420 exp. date can be taken with a > grain of salt; does anyone with some specific expertise concur? > > Fred > A194 > > on 9/23/04 10:05 AM, ivor.phillips at ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com wrote: > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" > > > > > > Vaughn > > > > It expired in April 2003 > > > > Ivor Phillips > > XS486 London UK > > Subject: Europa-List: ARALDITE 420 exp date > > > > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn Teegarden" > >> > >> > >> I have recently purchased a partially completed kit and will soon be > >> looking forward to bonding the top on the wings and canoe. There are > >> unopened containers of 420A and hardener with an expiration date of > >> 05-04-03. This stuff is from the right side of the pond and I am unsure > >> how they arrange their numerals. Are they the same as here in the USA? > >> > > > > ________________________________ Message 52 ____________________________________ Time: 07:29:16 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa Partition and my Conscience. --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw Tony, Corporate law that enables a business to be effectively re badged, and have the creditors of the previous business entity ignored is wrong. This is not an investment business where people adopt a risk strategy. This is about dreams. So, ethically, if the tooling remains available which I am sure it does, I would expect a good business model would have costed the non supplied componentry in the negotiated price. This is ethical, and what I would do. It may be argued that it is non sustainable in a business sense, but I feel that it should have been the only way the business was resurrected. What sort of business do you want? You have to have a customer base and respect it. I could have been one of those people caught out, and I know I wouldn't be feeling too good now. I don't believe on any grounds these people, part of the Europa community, should be forgotten about and the rest of us move on. Similarly, I don't think it is appropriate to sit back and send my hard earned dollars overseas and not know whether I am going to get my goods. Suffice to say a new method needs to be considered. Handling agent maybe. Independant middleman. I recognise there are valuable people in Europa and I believe the rhetoric is to protect those people. I agree. They have to value us as much as we value them, otherwise it can simply happen again and again. If your business motive is solely profit, well yes you can ignore the others who are on the other side of the contract of sale, but profit is a reward. Is your view that business is profit focussed, or reward? Reg Tony Renshaw P.S. If the phoenix looks like Icarus, maybe it is, and we should warn him not to fly too close to the sun, again. At 10:20 AM 9/24/2004, you wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Krzyzewski" > > > >> I want a response to whether a partition is appropriate, where >everyone including those outside the Europa Club can air their >collective desire to partition Europa 2004 for the parts supply >outstanding prior to our support. Simple, and fair. > >Fact: Europa 2004 is a completely different business entity from EMIL. > >Europa 2004 paid money to acquire some of the assets of EMIL but you >cannot make any assumption that items such as customer records, computer >systems and accounting records were part of that acquisition. Without >the records, or as it seems, even an operational internet connection as >of yet, I think it'd be very hard for Europa 2004 to send personalised >emails let alone letters to existing customers. > >As with any company ceasing to trade and having its assets purchased by >a new company, the new company has no responsibility for the losses of >the previous company. This has been a business principal in most western >countries for many years. > >I think that it's great that a bunch of people had enough faith in the >Europa aircraft design to get together enough funds to be able to form a >company. I have no doubt that some of these people have probably >stretched their financial resources to get Europa 2004 up and running. I >for one applaud their actions and intend supporting them in any way >possible. Without our support Europa 2004 won't exist and we, as >builders and owners of Europa aircraft, will be far worse off for it. > >Tony > > ________________________________ Message 53 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:41 PM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Re: (no subject) --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com Larry, My guess is that everyone has to start anew, and start looking forward. The money is lost, but many other people hope that they can have an avenue to obtain parts (I bet in small quantities of both parts and $) in order to complete their kit build. Can you imagine being out the money and others having no source of parts? That would ruin many more people and might do the Europa in as a viable aircraft in the future. Just my opinion. Do Not Archive. Mike Duane A207 Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Just about to put the top on but still finding little things to do before that. ________________________________ Message 54 ____________________________________ Time: 08:10:59 PM PST US From: Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europas for sale --> Europa-List message posted by: Hi Bob Are there any mono trailers available? I still need one. Tom -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Robert Berube Subject: Europa-List: Europas for sale --> Europa-List message posted by: "Robert Berube" It may be of interest to potential Europa Builders that Flight Crafters does have several kits available from unstarted to completed aircraft. These aircraft offer a great value to future owners with substantially reduced pricing. We would be happy to assist in packing and shipping to any country. Contact us offline for information. All the best to everyone, Bob Berube Flight Crafters == == == == ________________________________ Message 55 ____________________________________ Time: 08:20:38 PM PST US From: Paul Boulet Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Partition and my Conscience. --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Boulet I couldn't agree more.... altho $25 each probably won't be enuff count me in for helping out. Maybe $100 each is more appropriate Paul Boulet N914PB --- DJGeldermann wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "DJGeldermann" > > > Just an idea (and a potential headache for Europa > Club Officers to arrange > details, track and dispense), but I would > voluntarily pay the Europa Club an > extra $25 per year above dues to pool with other > donations. The Club could > then send it off proportionately to those who paid > for parts and received > nothing. A little from a bunch of us each year > might start to add up over > time. This would be more productive than boycotting > the new company. > Dan > A-139 > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "JEFF ROBERTS" > To: > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Partition and my > Conscience. > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS > > > > > > > On Sep 23, 2004, at 6:18 PM, Tony Renshaw wrote: > > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw > > > > > > > > > and yet have the knowledge someone else's life > dream > > > has gone down the toilet. I think we should > unite and tell Europa 2004 > > > that > > > until the outstanding kit builders have their > parts supplied, we are > > > not > > > going to support the new company! Simple isn't > it, and it gives guys > > > like > > > Larry Morgan some hope. > > I am with this Idea 100%. I am nearing the end of > my build but I know > > if it was me on the other end of the stick and > lost every penny I saved > > for this dream, I would be devistated! Not to > mention what my wife > > would say. Receiving the support of Europa > builders around the world be > > one of the best things that ever happened to me. > > > > > In case there are those out there who still are > of the view that we > > > should > > > keep our heads down and let Europa 2004 get on > with it, I haven't > > > received > > > a personal e-mail from the company. In today's > world this is > > > unacceptable > > > > > It would be nice to receive an up-dated direct > statement from the 2004 > > boys. Wouldn't take much to say hello to the > builders on this forum. > > > > > > > > Jeff > > A258 > > > > > _- > > > > ======================================================================= > > > _- > > > > ======================================================================= > > > _- > > > > ======================================================================= > > > _- > > > > ======================================================================= > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Contributions > any other > Forums. > > http://www.matronics.com/chat > > http://www.matronics.com/subscription > http://www.matronics.com/FAQ/Europa-List.htm > http://www.matronics.com/archives > http://www.matronics.com/photoshare > http://www.matronics.com/emaillists > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 56 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:25 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Partition and my Conscience. From: "Fred R. Klein" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" Tony, Not to be picky, but really to just understand what you mean, did you intend "petition" or "partition"? Fred A194 on 9/23/04 4:20 PM, Tony Krzyzewski at tonyk@kaon.co.nz wrote: >>> I want a response to whether a partition is appropriate, where > everyone including those outside the Europa Club can air their > collective desire to partition Europa 2004 for the parts supply > outstanding prior to our support. Simple, and fair. ________________________________ Message 57 ____________________________________ Time: 08:54:57 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Europa-List: Europa Partition and my Conscience. Cont'd --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw Gidday again, Financial compensation by interested members is a viable option that I would be only too happy to entertain, but only once I know the Europa option is exhausted. Suffice to say, I believe this is more appropriate if Europa 2004 cannot or will not support those without kits or major components, recognising their inherited responsibilities ethically. (no more business law, I know it). If it was to be entertained it has to go to those who cannot continue with the bits they have, whereas others without fwf kits can make alternative arrangements. I am sure a fwf kit option can become a reality other than Jabiru, without Europas involvement. So, petition?? If interested in this option respond directly to this thread to me and I will keep a master log. Reg Tony Renshaw At 01:24 PM 9/24/2004, you wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" > >Tony, > >Not to be picky, but really to just understand what you mean, did you intend >"petition" or "partition"? > >Fred >A194 > >on 9/23/04 4:20 PM, Tony Krzyzewski at tonyk@kaon.co.nz wrote: > > >>> I want a response to whether a partition is appropriate, where > > everyone including those outside the Europa Club can air their > > collective desire to partition Europa 2004 for the parts supply > > outstanding prior to our support. Simple, and fair. > > ________________________________ Message 58 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:51 PM PST US From: "Lance Sandford" Subject: Europa-List: Jpeg Images --> Europa-List message posted by: "Lance Sandford" Not strictly Europa but we do send and receive a lot of images. Just a heads up for a new vulnerability, a pretty big one: http://asia.cnet.com/news/security/0,39037064,39193726,00.htm "Microsoft published on Tuesday a patch for a major security flaw in its software's handling of the JPEG graphics format and urged customers to use a new tool to locate the many applications that are vulnerable. The critical flaw has to do with how Microsoft's operating systems and other software process the widely used JPEG image format and could let attackers create an image file that would run a malicious program on a victim's computer as soon as the file is viewed. Because the software giant's Internet Explorer browser is vulnerable, Windows users could fall prey to an attack just by visiting a Web site that has affected images." >From http://www.microsoft.com/security/bulletins/200409_jpeg.mspx Software affected: * Windows XP * Windows XP Service Pack 1 (SP1) * Windows Server 2003 * Internet Explorer 6 SP1 * Office XP SP3 (includes Word 2002, Excel 2002, Outlook 2002, PowerPoint 2002, FrontPage 2002, and Publisher 2002) * Office 2003 (includes Word 2003, Excel 2003, Outlook 2003, PowerPoint 2003, FrontPage 2003, Publisher 2003, InfoPath 2003, and OneNote 2003) * Digital Image Pro 7.0 * Digital Image Pro 9 * Digital Image Suite 9 * Greetings 2002 * Picture It! 2002 (all versions) * Picture It! 7.0 (all versions) * Picture It! 9 (all versions, including Picture It! Library) * Producer for PowerPoint (all versions) * Project 2002 SP1 (all versions) * Project 2003 (all versions) * Visio 2002 SP2 (all versions) * Visio 2003 (all versions) * Visual Studio .NET 2002 Note Visual Studio .NET 2002 includes Visual Basic .NET Standard 2002, Visual C# .NET Standard 2002, and Visual C++ .NET Standard 2002. * Visual Studio .NET 2003 Note Visual Studio .NET 2003 includes Visual Basic .NET Standard 2003, Visual C# .NET Standard 2003, Visual C++ .NET Standard 2003, and Visual J# .NET Standard 2003. * .NET Framework 1.0 SP2 * .NET Framework 1.0 SDK SP2 * .NET Framework 1.1 * Platform SDK Redistributable: GDI+ Patch up, folks. Regards Lance Sandford