---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 09/27/04: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:06 AM - Re: Re: Help! Replacement fuel cap (Tim Butterworth) 2. 01:08 AM - Re: Help! Replacement fuel cap (Tim Butterworth) 3. 04:34 AM - Re: Firewall Forward-less (JR (Bob) Gowing) 4. 04:34 AM - Re: ARALDITE 420 exp date (JR (Bob) Gowing) 5. 05:47 AM - skinned tail-kit for sale (Europa) 6. 06:40 AM - Re: Firewall Forward-less (Vaughn Teegarden) 7. 07:28 AM - Water (Dave Anderson) 8. 11:18 AM - Firewall Forward-less (Fred R. Klein) 9. 02:37 PM - Re: Water (Bill & Sue Sisley) 10. 04:07 PM - Re: Water () 11. 04:41 PM - Rudder Horn Misalignment (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com) 12. 05:02 PM - Spraylat (Graham Singleton) 13. 05:02 PM - Help! Replacement fuel cap (Graham Singleton) 14. 05:06 PM - tailkit and consumables for sale (Europa) 15. 07:42 PM - Re: Spraylat (Paul McAllister) 16. 08:27 PM - Re: Rudder Horn Misalignment (Rocketman) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:06:33 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Help! Replacement fuel cap From: "Tim Butterworth" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tim Butterworth" Thanks very much. I am at least glad there are some suppliers around ... would be a silly reason to ground the plane! I have a couple of names of suppliers and some offers of beg/borrow/steal as well from the bulletin board. Thanks for your reply. Tim ________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of rlborger Subject: Europa-List: Re: Help! Replacement fuel cap --> Europa-List message posted by: rlborger Tim, Not a quick fix, but replacement caps are available from Aircraft Spruce and Wicks. Unfortunately, they seem to be sold only as a set, cap + flange. See page 165 in the new ACS catalog or search either of their websites ( http://www.aircraftspruce.com http://www.wicksaircraft.com ) for "fuel caps". Good building, Bob Borger Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, 914, Airmaster C/S http://forum.okhuijsen.org/N914XL (75%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch system in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in, Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar in, flap drive in. Working in - 24 Instrument Panel, 25 Electrical, 27 Setting Wings, 28 Flaps, 29 Main Gear, 30 Fuel System, 32 Tail, 34 Door Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Finishing. 3705 Lynchburg Dr. Corinth, TX 76208 Home: 940-497-2123 Cel: 817-992-1117 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:08:51 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Help! Replacement fuel cap From: "Tim Butterworth" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tim Butterworth" Thanks Peter. I am at least glad there are some suppliers around ... would be a silly reason to ground the plane! I have a couple of names of suppliers and some offers of beg/borrow/steal as well from the bulletin board. Thanks for your reply. Tim ________________________________ From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Pete Lawless Subject: RE: Europa-List: Help! Replacement fuel cap --> Europa-List message posted by: "Pete Lawless" Tim You can buy these from the motor racing / rally suppliers. Try Demon Tweeks in Wrexham. www.demon-tweeks.co.uk 01978 664466 Have you looked on the runway? That is where we found mine! I had left it on the top held by the vents. Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Butterworth Subject: Europa-List: Help! Replacement fuel cap --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tim Butterworth" --> Hi, Don't ask how(!?) I have lost my fuel cap from my Europa when filling yesterday. Despite 6 fire service chaps trying to help search for it for over an hour, we couldn't find it anywhere. So .... can anyone help in supplying a replacement 'non-lockable' type fuel cap? a) Andy/Neville, do you have any at the factory? (is there one on G-YURO if you don't have any stock?) b) Does anyone have one used/going spare? c) In the short term, does anyone have a kit someway off completion that I can beg/borrow/steal until a replacement can be sought? d) Can we locate the manufacturer and part number for me to get one from the supplier direct? Any help much appreciated! Tim direct advertising on the Matronics Forums. --- --- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:37 AM PST US From: "JR (Bob) Gowing" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall Forward-less --> Europa-List message posted by: "JR (Bob) Gowing" Fred They are the bits I lack in planning for 912 S. Here in Australia we have a complet kit for Jabiru 6 cyl and covers you could chase up through Jabiru. J R (Bob) Gowing, UK Kit 327 flaps working ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred R. Klein" Subject: Europa-List: Firewall Forward-less > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" > > All, > > I would like to compile a list of those builders who lack the Europa > firewall forward kit. Accordingly, if you would like to appear on such a > list, kindly email me (off-list) your: > > - Name: > - Kit number noting mono, tri-gear, or conventional: > - Building status: > - Address: > > I will post the list on this forum in say two weeks. > > Fred > A194 > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:34:37 AM PST US From: "JR (Bob) Gowing" Subject: Re: Europa-List: ARALDITE 420 exp date --> Europa-List message posted by: "JR (Bob) Gowing" Fellows You must have missed the email of P.A Austin 24/9/04 as follows: ] "Europa-List message posted by: "p-a.austin" Spoke at some length a while back to one of the head chemists in a major company in this country that produces a broad range of Epoxy's etc and asked him specifically about the expiry dates and there meaning, he replied that as they are basically two inert substances until mixed and if stored correctly in their containers there is not a problem as the exp date is for company records and is deleted from their records at the said date."Meaning" should you have a batch that is faulty or fails on you prior to the exp date they will respond. Maybe we should be asking ourselves is there an exp date on fibre glass, no matter how lovingly cared for, does it have a "Life"? Peter Classic #198 There are unopened containers > of 420A and hardener with an expiration date of 05-04-03. remainder snipped. J R (Bob) Gowing,UK Kit 327 in Oz (flaps working) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vaughn Teegarden" Subject: Re: Europa-List: ARALDITE 420 exp date > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn Teegarden" > > Thanks for all the replys and information. I do know that the person that I > bought it from kept it in a chest with a light bulb hooked up to a > thermostat, as I intend to do. (happen to have an unused thermostat laying > around) It looks good, so I will try a test piece to determine if I need to > throw it out. > > Vaughn Teegarden > Getting closer to rolling up the sleeves > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vaughn Teegarden" > To: > Subject: Europa-List: ARALDITE 420 exp date > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn Teegarden" > > > > > I have recently purchased a partially completed kit and will soon be > looking forward to bonding the top on the wings and canoe. There are > unopened containers of 420A and hardener with an expiration date of > 05-04-03. This stuff is from the right side of the pond and I am unsure how > they arrange their numerals. Are they the same as here in the USA? > > > > Vaughn Teegarden > > Still figuring out exactly where I am > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:47:21 AM PST US From: Europa Subject: Europa-List: skinned tail-kit for sale --> Europa-List message posted by: Europa Hi folks, I've had a bid for the consumables (2x redux, 4x ampreg, ~25m bid cloth) of 255 - representing half price - which I will accept if I get no improved offer by Monday 4th October. I won't post any more updates about the consumables on this forum; I'll only email bidders directly. cheers Andy > as one of the many who had money deposited with EMIL I've had a few > months to decide what to do with my part completed kit; wait for Europa > to rise from the ashes or sell up and move on. Not an easy choice but > I've made it, so I have some things to sell: > > 1. Tail kit. All skins done, rudder hinges and nutplate installed. > Tailplanes incidence set and ready for pip-pin drilling out. Trim tabs > installed. This equates to more than a pre-skinned tail kit. > 2. 2 packs of araldite 420 expiry july 2005 > 3. 4 packs of ampreg 20 expiry sept 2005 > 4. quantity of bid on the roll > > I have digital photos of the work as it progressed, and I can take > detailed photos/measurements for anyone who is interested. > > So, if you're interested please email me : mailto:europa@brownfamily.org.uk > > Andy Brown > Nairn, Highlands, Scotland ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 06:40:25 AM PST US From: "Vaughn Teegarden" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall Forward-less --> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn Teegarden" Fred I will be needing a firewall forward kit in a month or two. I e'mailed John Wheeler and he felt that they would be shipping FFK's with-in a month or two. He also stated thet it was Europa 2004's intention to take care of the U.S. market. I am taking their word on that. Vaughn Teegarden Axxx Mono close to putting on the top and closing the wings 16326 Bethlehem Road Bristol, VA 24202 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred R. Klein" Subject: Europa-List: Firewall Forward-less > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" > > All, > > I would like to compile a list of those builders who lack the Europa > firewall forward kit. Accordingly, if you would like to appear on such a > list, kindly email me (off-list) your: > > - Name: > - Kit number noting mono, tri-gear, or conventional: > - Building status: > - Address: > > I will post the list on this forum in say two weeks. > > Fred > A194 > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:14 AM PST US From: "Dave Anderson" Subject: Europa-List: Water --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dave Anderson" Now that I have solved my 914 engine running problem after many hours of checking things over - the engine is now the most checked out engine there is, I would think. Everything checked out fine, except it still wasn't running right - plus it has never had a satisfying run-up since new. Finally, I tried to adjust the carbs one notch lean, resulting in worse running. Logic seemed to indicate trying to go richer and, what do you know, now it finally runs smoothly. It was just too lean, it seems. Because I never like going very long without things to fret about, I am noticing for the first time in over 200 hours of operation that I am having to add tiny amounts of water - coolant - to keep it topped off. That might be 1/4 cup every 3 hours or so - approximately. The first 200 hours, there wasn't a drop added. So here comes my question - what have other 914 engine operators found regarding coolant? I have absolutely no evidence of external leakage, although I will be doing a very comprehensive check of this in the next few days. Anybody ever had this before - any body know of ways the engine can use water without leaking externally? Is there a head gasket of sorts? Thanks, Dave A227 Mini U2 245TT ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:18:24 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Firewall Forward-less From: "Fred R. Klein" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" All, In response to my 9/25 posting, to date I have received data from 25 builders lacking the FWF kit. I also received a query as to the purpose of creating such a list. Perhaps I should have posted a more comprehensive message. I am one of many of us without the FWF kit; my interest in creating a list of those in similar straits are several: First, it occurred to me that I have no idea how many share my dilemma; even w/ the glider wings, my hunch is the motor-less Europa would be less than an optimal sailplane. Second, my sense is that it might be useful to know who these folks are in order to share information on how we are dealing with the problem; thus the first purpose I intend w/ such a list would be to post it on the forum. Third, the new Europa company may well have no records at all in this regard, and if the information became available, it might be instrumental in making the availability of FFWD kits a higher priority than, say, the marketing of new airframe kits. Alternatively...if the resources and attention of the new company are stretched to the max doing the necessary work to re-establish its airframe supplier chain and to begin a new marketing program...knowing how many active builders are looking for the FWF package, the company might explore creative alliances with others to meet this need. And fourth, with the information available, other companies might be better able to gauge the opportunity to propose "after market" FWF packages. If you would like your name to appear on this list, send me your name, kit #, LG type, status of build, and address. I'll post the list on Oct. 1. Fred A194 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:37:25 PM PST US From: "Bill & Sue Sisley" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Water on dbmail-mx8.orcon.net.nz --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bill & Sue Sisley" Dave, Mine is now at 210hrs and runs really well. Have never had to make any adjustment other than balance carbs. It do not use any oil or coolant. I did have a coolant leak at the rear of the engine early on that caused a slight loss of coolant. I only noticed it due to a few small drops on the hanger floor, there was no other sign at all that I could see when first inspecting all the plumbing etc. It was one of the pipe clamps that needed retorquing. ZK CHV XS Mono 914-Airmaster 210hrs Sue and Bill ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Anderson" Subject: Europa-List: Water > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dave Anderson" > > Now that I have solved my 914 engine running problem after many hours of checking things over - the engine is now the most checked out engine there is, I would think. Everything checked out fine, except it still wasn't running right - plus it has never had a satisfying run-up since new. Finally, I tried to adjust the carbs one notch lean, resulting in worse running. Logic seemed to indicate trying to go richer and, what do you know, now it finally runs smoothly. It was just too lean, it seems. > > Because I never like going very long without things to fret about, I am noticing for the first time in over 200 hours of operation that I am having to add tiny amounts of water - coolant - to keep it topped off. That might be 1/4 cup every 3 hours or so - approximately. The first 200 hours, there wasn't a drop added. So here comes my question - what have other 914 engine operators found regarding coolant? I have absolutely no evidence of external leakage, although I will be doing a very comprehensive check of this in the next few days. Anybody ever had this before - any body know of ways the engine can use water without leaking externally? Is there a head gasket of sorts? > > Thanks, > > Dave > A227 > Mini U2 > 245TT > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:07:33 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Europa-List: Water --> Europa-List message posted by: At 260 hours have added coolant at 50 hour intervals when under the hood changing oil...amount 4 oz or so to the overflow tank. The tank on top of the engine is always full. Ken Carpenter A123 N9XS Mono 914 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Anderson" Subject: Europa-List: Water > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dave Anderson" > > Now that I have solved my 914 engine running problem after many hours of > checking things over - the engine is now the most checked out engine there > is, I would think. Everything checked out fine, except it still wasn't > running right - plus it has never had a satisfying run-up since new. > Finally, I tried to adjust the carbs one notch lean, resulting in worse > running. Logic seemed to indicate trying to go richer and, what do you > know, now it finally runs smoothly. It was just too lean, it seems. > > Because I never like going very long without things to fret about, I am > noticing for the first time in over 200 hours of operation that I am > having to add tiny amounts of water - coolant - to keep it topped off. > That might be 1/4 cup every 3 hours or so - approximately. The first 200 > hours, there wasn't a drop added. So here comes my question - what have > other 914 engine operators found regarding coolant? I have absolutely no > evidence of external leakage, although I will be doing a very > comprehensive check of this in the next few days. Anybody ever had this > before - any body know of ways the engine can use water without leaking > externally? Is there a head gasket of sorts? > > Thanks, > > Dave > A227 > Mini U2 > 245TT > > > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 04:41:58 PM PST US From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Rudder Horn Misalignment --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Greetings all, I've started the task of installing my sternpost and I've noticed what I believe is a gross error in the alignment of the rudder horn. I cut the base of the rudder exactly as it is shown in Chapter 2, exactly 90 degrees to the hinge pin line, and installed the nut plate and rudder horn exactly as the instructions show. The upper and lower fuselage moldings at the trailing edge are cut exactly on the cut line shown. Holding the rudder up to the sternpost and sighting the alignment of the rudder horn shows it is a good 25 degrees out of line with the starboard rudder cable as it exits the fuselage side and similarly out of line with the fuselage seam (level line). This cannot possibly be right. Attaching the rudder cable to the horn in the fashion shown using a bolt would put a side load on the cable thimble anytime the rudder moves and almost certainly would cause the cable to fail with repeated use. I followed the manual sequentially, so when the nutplate and rudder horn were mounted I wasn't far enough along with the fuselage to verify the angle. If I had waited until I was ready to install the sternpost to check the angle I'm pretty sure I would have caught this because the angle is so off. I can fix the problem, but it's going to take sawing off the nutplate, adjusting the angle of the bottom of the rudder to match the cable line, and then re-installing the nutplate. I figure this is at least 10 hours additional work minimum. Has anybody else run into this? Am I missing an update somewhere that shows a different procedure? I can't see this working at all as is. Regards, John Lawton Dunlap, TN A-245 (Scratching my head once again) ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:01 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Europa-List: Spraylat --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton At 23:56 26/09/2004 -0700, you wrote: > Spraylat it is - from AS&S - and not to keep it on for more than a >few months if wanting to strip it off again. >How sweet it is! >Ferg >A064 Ferg & anyone else I haven't tried it but I suggest the answer to embrittled Spraylat which won't come off would be to coat it again with new Spraylat and pull the old off with the new Graham ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:01 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Europa-List: Help! Replacement fuel cap --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton At 23:56 26/09/2004 -0700, you wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: rlborger >Tim, > >Not a quick fix, but replacement caps are available from Aircraft >Spruce and Wicks. Unfortunately, they seem to be sold only as a set, >cap + flange. See page 165 in the new ACS catalog or search either of >their websites ( http://www.aircraftspruce.com >http://www.wicksaircraft.com ) for "fuel caps". Try Robin Voice, UK phone 01453 834 032 836703 fax Graham ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:06:16 PM PST US From: Europa Subject: Europa-List: tailkit and consumables for sale --> Europa-List message posted by: Europa Hi Folks, the is the last email to the forum concerning this - to point anyone interested to the web page that shows what's for sale and who has the highest bid: http://www.brownfamily.org.uk/public/europa.html cheers Andy ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:42:39 PM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Spraylat --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Graham et all, I have tried coating old spraylat with a coat of new to get it off but it didn't work. The thing that worked best to get the old stuff off was to stick duct tape on it and rip it off. Paul > > Ferg & anyone else > > I haven't tried it but I suggest the answer to embrittled Spraylat which > won't come off would be to coat it again with new Spraylat and pull the old > off with the new > Graham > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:27:13 PM PST US From: Rocketman Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rudder Horn Misalignment --> Europa-List message posted by: Rocketman TELEDYNMCS@aol.com wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com > >Greetings all, > >I've started the task of installing my sternpost and I've noticed what I >believe is a gross error in the alignment of the rudder horn. > >I cut the base of the rudder exactly as it is shown in Chapter 2, exactly 90 >degrees to the hinge pin line, and installed the nut plate and rudder horn >exactly as the instructions show. The upper and lower fuselage moldings at the >trailing edge are cut exactly on the cut line shown. Holding the rudder up to >the sternpost and sighting the alignment of the rudder horn shows it is a good >25 degrees out of line with the starboard rudder cable as it exits the fuselage >side and similarly out of line with the fuselage seam (level line). This >cannot possibly be right. Attaching the rudder cable to the horn in the fashion >shown using a bolt would put a side load on the cable thimble anytime the rudder >moves and almost certainly would cause the cable to fail with repeated use. I >followed the manual sequentially, so when the nutplate and rudder horn were >mounted I wasn't far enough along with the fuselage to verify the angle. If I >had waited until I was ready to install the sternpost to check the angle I'm >pretty sure I would have caught this because the angle is so off. > >I can fix the problem, but it's going to take sawing off the nutplate, >adjusting the angle of the bottom of the rudder to match the cable line, and then >re-installing the nutplate. I figure this is at least 10 hours additional work >minimum. > >Has anybody else run into this? Am I missing an update somewhere that shows a >different procedure? I can't see this working at all as is. > >Regards, > >John Lawton >Dunlap, TN >A-245 (Scratching my head once again) > > > John, Mine's the same way, and it's a quick build. I believe it's normal... -- Jeff A055 Builders Log: http://www.N55XS.com