Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:42 AM - Re: Spraylat (Richard Iddon)
2. 04:04 AM - Airmaster AP308 Prop (Paddy Clarke)
3. 05:17 AM - Re: Airmaster AP308 Prop (Paul McAllister)
4. 05:41 AM - Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 09/27/04 (nigel charles)
5. 08:35 AM - Re: Airmaster AP308 Prop (R.C.Harrison)
6. 10:37 AM - Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 09/27/04 (Fergus Kyle)
7. 12:23 PM - Re: Rudder Horn Misalingment (rlborger)
8. 01:42 PM - Re: Rudder Horn Misalingment (SteveD)
9. 01:52 PM - Re: Spraylat (NevEyre@aol.com)
10. 01:55 PM - Re: Epibond 420 shelf life? (NevEyre@aol.com)
11. 02:49 PM - Neville!!! (Fergus Kyle)
12. 02:53 PM - Jabiru Support for Europa -- was: Firewall Forward-less (Bruce)
13. 03:22 PM - Window masking (NevEyre@aol.com)
14. 03:26 PM - Re: Jabiru Support for Europa -- was: Firewall Forward-less (Duncan McFadyean)
15. 03:52 PM - Pip-pin accident! Need spare and medical help! (Richard Holder)
16. 07:27 PM - Re: Jabiru Support for Europa -- was: Firewall Forward-less (Andy Silvester)
Message 1
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard Iddon" <riddon@sent.com>
I don't want to appear too simplistic but this spraylat sounds quite a
lot of bother. I simply covered the windows with tough polythene, the
stuff that the windows came wrapped in, and stuck it on with electrical
insulation tape. Other than checking and resticking the tape
occasionally, no probs.
Richard Iddon G-RIXS
(now 130 hrs including 3 European trips and wondering why I also made
such a fuss about various aspects of the build. Building is fun but
flying the thing is fantastic!)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
beecho@beecho.org
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Spraylat
--> Europa-List message posted by: <beecho@beecho.org>
I just removed Spraylat that had been on about 9 months by using warm
water and a citrus cleaner, then scraping with a plastic scraper. It
came off easily and left no marks.
Tom Friedland
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rob
Huntington
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Spraylat
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rob Huntington
<robertodue2002@yahoo.com>
Hello all,
We have found (unfortunately) that the best way to remove old Spraylat
is to use a 50%/50% mixture of acetone and mineral spirits to help
soften the coating. Care must be taken to not have too high of
concentration of acetone otherwise it can create a haze on the window.
It is best to try on a scrap piece of window material to test the
compatability. Again, prevention is the best course, a minimum of 4
coats applied, with each additional coat applied just as the previous
coat has dried enough to brush/spray without deforming the previous
coat. Removal and replacement should be done annually at the very
longest, and preferrably every 6 months.
Regards,
Rob Huntington
Phoenix Composites
4863 E. Falcon Dr.
Mesa, AZ 85215
ph (480) 924-9750
email robertodue2002@yahoo.com
Message 2
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| Subject: | Airmaster AP308 Prop |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Paddy Clarke <paddyclarke@lineone.net>
Hi All,
I have a problem with an Airmaster AP 308 prop. I'm getting
a very
fine spray of grease around the cowling and back onto the windscreen.
It appears to be coming from the joint between the blade retention nut
and the hub on 2 of the blades.
I've been in touch with Airmaster and they say the grease
is most
likely to be coming down the blade retention nut thread - a problem
that will be solved by having their SB-13 done. This instals an O-ring
around the nut and was designed to stop water working its way in the
other direction, into the hub. They will do this SB for free, the only
snag is that the prop has to be taken off and returned to NZ.
Has anyone else had this problem?
If so, has anyone tried to seal the join with silicone?
- again, if
so, does this cause much difficulty when it comes to unscrewing the
blade retention nut?
The grease comes out a just one point in the joints circumference
-
presumably where the thread ends. Has anyone tried putting silicone
just at that point?
Many thanks
Paddy Clarke
Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Airmaster AP308 Prop |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Paddy,
I have SB13 done on my propeller, but the fine grease spray still occurs.
Paul
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 09/27/04 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" <nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
>I've started the task of installing my sternpost and I've noticed what
>I believe is a gross error in the alignment of the rudder horn.
>
>I can fix the problem, but it's going to take sawing off the nutplate,
>adjusting the angle of the bottom of the rudder to match the cable
>line, and then
>
>re-installing the nutplate.
>John Lawton
>John
>the best fix is to put the pushrod back to drive the rudder, (as on the
>Classic) It looks much neater, doesn't overload the rudder flange and
hinge
>(the standard XS fit does) and is the right way to do these things!
(imho)
>Graham
I agree with Graham. This is the one area where the Classic is better
than the XS. If this is done with Graham's mod it even hides the
tailwheel springs.
Nigel Charles
Message 5
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| Subject: | Airmaster AP308 Prop |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@ukonline.co.uk>
Hi! Paddy.
I'm off to NZ and meeting up with Tony K around the 20th October if
that's any good ? Won't be back for at least 4 weeks though !
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paddy
Clarke
Subject: Europa-List: Airmaster AP308 Prop
--> Europa-List message posted by: Paddy Clarke
--> <paddyclarke@lineone.net>
Hi All,
I have a problem with an Airmaster AP 308 prop.
I'm getting a very
fine spray of grease around the cowling and back onto the windscreen.
It appears to be coming from the joint between the blade retention nut
and the hub on 2 of the blades.
I've been in touch with Airmaster and they say
the grease is most
likely to be coming down the blade retention nut thread - a problem
that will be solved by having their SB-13 done. This instals an O-ring
around the nut and was designed to stop water working its way in the
other direction, into the hub. They will do this SB for free, the only
snag is that the prop has to be taken off and returned to NZ.
Has anyone else had this problem?
If so, has anyone tried to seal the join with
silicone? - again, if
so, does this cause much difficulty when it comes to unscrewing the
blade retention nut?
The grease comes out a just one point in the
joints circumference -
presumably where the thread ends. Has anyone tried putting silicone
just at that point?
Many thanks
Paddy Clarke
Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 09/27/04 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
----- Original Message -----
From: "nigel charles" <nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 09/27/04
| --> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles"
<nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
|
| >I've started the task of installing my sternpost and I've noticed what
| >I believe is a gross error in the alignment of the rudder horn.
| >
| >I can fix the problem, but it's going to take sawing off the nutplate,
| >adjusting the angle of the bottom of the rudder to match the cable
| >line, and then
| >
| >re-installing the nutplate.
| >John Lawton
|
| >John
| >the best fix is to put the pushrod back to drive the rudder, (as on the
|
| >Classic) It looks much neater, doesn't overload the rudder flange and
| hinge
| >(the standard XS fit does) and is the right way to do these things!
| (imho)
|
| >Graham
|
|
| I agree with Graham. This is the one area where the Classic is better
| than the XS. If this is done with Graham's mod it even hides the
| tailwheel springs.
|
| Nigel Charles
A Superb alternative!
Ferg
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Horn Misalingment |
--> Europa-List message posted by: rlborger <rlborger@mac.com>
John,
You can check my Forum web site for some details on the installation of
the Graham Singleton Rudder and Tailwheel Drive Mod. I have pics of
the hardware and various aspects of the installation. There isn't a
single place I can point out as the installation is scattered through
the build. But, you can start looking at Year #3, Q 1, 2004 on page 1
half way down the page where I show the parts. The installation occurs
from there on.
I hope this helps. With your build.
Good building and great flying,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, 914, Airmaster C/S
http://forum.okhuijsen.org/N914XL
(75%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch
system in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in,
Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar
in, flap drive in. Working in - 24 Instrument Panel, 25 Electrical, 27
Setting Wings, 28 Flaps, 29 Main Gear, 30 Fuel System, 32 Tail, 34 Door
Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Finishing.
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder Horn Misalingment |
2.60 REPLY_TO_EMPTY Reply-To: is empty
--> Europa-List message posted by: "SteveD" <Post2Forum@comcast.net>
[quote:f4383fc59e="rlborger at mac.com"]There isn't a single place I can point
out as the installation is scattered through the build. I hope this helps.
Bob Borger[/quote:f4383fc59e]
John,
Using my omnivorous forum powers I did a quick look through Bob's album and put
keywords in all the photos I could find of the Rudder and Tailwheel Drive Mod.
From: http://forum.okhuijsen.org/Gallery
In the search box paste the following: Rudder and Tailwheel Drive Mod
you should get about 35 hits.
Bob's album / builder log is outstanding and I appreciate the time that he puts
into it.
Chat later,
Steved
----------------
Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://forum.okhuijsen.org/
Message 9
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--> Europa-List message posted by: NevEyre@aol.com
I agree with Richard, ditch the spraylat, use polythene sheet to protect the
plexi'.
Spraylat is used by manufacturers because it is easy....... a muppet can put
it on !
I sent a reply to Ferg a couple of days ago on how I treat the plexi /
perspex. If he still has it, perhaps he can forward the relevent part of that email
to the forum, I have deleted that email, and I can't be a**ed to do it again !
Also there was a suggestion to use a solvent mix to remove the Spraylat....
NO NO NO !
If you get away without melting the surface today with any solvent [ Acetone,
Petrol [that is Gasoline to our US friends] or whatever, it will come back to
haunt you in a few years, when it will show up as crazing, like a silver
''thrush'' effect [ been there, done that, got the tee shirt !]
Pull the worst off with sticky tape [gaffer / duct / race, call it what you
will] then hot to the touch water, bathed over will soften it enough to remove.
If you do wet it, GET ALL THE SPRAYLAT OFF, don't let it dry out or it will
go like cement.A little washing up liquid will help.
Have fun ! Keep smiling !
Cheers,
Nev.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: Epibond 420 shelf life? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: NevEyre@aol.com
Hi Ron,
Similar properties, different make up.
Don't know about the Epibond Time Ex, but Redux is good for a couple of years
past the Time Ex, if it is kept warm [ not frozen]
Cheers,
Nev.
Message 11
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Neville and the gang (sounds like a new band):
herewith the text of the message you sent me yestreday - minus the dirty and
rotten bits - and the personal remarks and political rhetoric- I always
spoke well of you.
I have to say I'm having trouble with the text because;
[a] I printed this, then ditched it along with your address, so this is
to the net;
[b] I have some difficulty in following the reasoning behind the spacing
of the electrical tape. I think you know what you said, but I don't think
you know what I think you said. The 1/8inch space is to permit
finger-pointing the 420. But the placing of the electrical tape is a touch
confusing. If the other readers don't agree then I guess it's back to Miss
Thompson's englich class for me. I'm better with pitchers.
Cheers. friend,
Ferg
Re the window covering, ditch the spraylat, try this.....
Plop the perspex into the rebate, mark with a chinagraph pencil on the
inside, about 1/8'' inside the flange, and run a piece of PVC electrical
tape about 1/2'' inside that line on both sides.Do not stretch the tape, or
it will shrink itself off.Cover all the perspex inside that tape with a
double layer of plastic sheet [ builders poly'], again, use PVC tape.
Then cover from the first piece of tape to the 1/8'' inside the flange line,
again with PVC.
You can now scuff up to the tape edge,ON THE INSIDE ONLY, with 80 grit
paper, if the edge of the tape gets nicked, replace that strip only, the
poly does not get disturbed until after final paint. When you Redux the
perspex, the 1/8'' gap will allow you to put a finger wipe radius on the
Redux, gives a better finnish.Make sure you do not overlap the Redux over
the tape, it is a bitch to sand. Do not use a solvent, just plenty of paper
towel. Abrade the outer part of the perspex with 320 grit to key the paint.
Keep replacing the PVC tape up to primer stage, if it gets damaged, then use
3M paper masking tape up to the paint line, and cover the poly with brown
paper. If you leave the poly exposed at the paint stage, bits of dried paint
will flake off onto the door.
Remove the paper tape the next day [ no longer than 2 or 3 days, especially
if it is damp] and protect the bare perspex each time with PVC tape, back to
the paint line. The same piece of paper can be left on for the hibuild /
primer / barrier coat stage, put a fresh piece on for the topcoat.
With the various primer / hibuild coats, it helps to ''lose'' the thick
paint line, by gently sanding up to,and over the masking tape, to thin the
layer of paint, when you pull the tape off, you should hardly feel the edge.
On the outside of the door perspex, where it will rest on the bench, you can
tape on a polystyrene ceiling tile to cushion against damage.
Keep at it, look forward to seeing your bird at ''O'' one year.
Cheers,
Nev.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Jabiru Support for Europa -- was: Firewall Forward-less |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bruce" <bruce@justbruce.com>
(like all my e-mails, a bit long)
Hey Andy
(Andy Silvester -- Suncoast Sportplanes -- Jabiru Dealer in
U.S.)
We welcome your participation in the Europa-List.
In a previous e-mail, you mentioned that another Jabiru 3300
installation had been accomplished in a Europa. Perhaps like
other Europa builders, I anxiously look forward to
evaluating realistic alternatives to the Rotax powerplants
that have been promoted by Europa. I know that Europa
evaluated a number of powerplants back in the early days,
and that none of the alternatives including rotary,
motorcycle, and Subaru powerplants were ever supported by
the factory. Later on, the Jabiru engine and firewall
forward kit became available, but Europa never endorsed,
sold or supported the Jabiru alternative. Perhaps Europa
hesitated to endorse a powerplant vendor who could also be
considered an airframe competitor.
Where we stand today is that Europa is not currently selling
Rotax firewall forward kits anywhere in the world. The time
is ripe for you to let us know why Jabiru should be our
choice for powerplants. Many builders have an immediate need
and others like me are still building and won't need
powerplants for at least a year, but would like to decide on
a powerplant soon so we can incorporate any unique
construction requirements.
The challenge that we as potential purchasers have, and you
as Jabiru distributors can assist us with, is the lack of
information that can be used to compare the various power
plants that are realistic options. I define realistic
options as those power plants that:
1. are available as a complete firewall forward kit
2. are supported locally by factory authorized dealers
3. have successfully been installed in Europas
4. have Europa-based performance information available
that is based on real-life experiences
5. provide satisfactory performance in terms of fuel
consumption, and speed
Questions for today: Perhaps you or the other Jabiru
distributors around the world will respond?
1. How many Jabiru 3300s have been sold?
2. How many Jabiru powerplants have been sold and
installed in non-Jabiru airframes.
3. How many Jabirus 3300s have been installed in
Europas?
4. Are there any non-Jabiru airframes (i.e.: Zenith,
Sonex, Glastar, etc) where builders have been particularly
receptive to installing Jabirus 3300s. In particular I'd
like to know why they choose the Jabiru over the Rotax
alternatives, especially in airframes that have similar
characteristics and missions as the Europa.
5. Tell us about the dealer/distributor network. In
particular I want to know about those in North America, but
perhaps Jabiru dealers outside of North America will respond
and let us know what territories they manage. I'm curious
as to how long the dealers have been in business, what kind
of support and in-house service they can offer us, do the
dealers have protected territories (or can we deal with any
of them), and whether the dealers are committed to working
full time for Jabiru, or is it a part-time business for
them.
6. What are the fuel requirements for the Jabiru? I know
this can get complicated as motor fuel differs in each state
and country. Jabiru specifies 95 RON octane which is 91 CLC
(or Pump Octane) in North America. Here in California it is
even more screwed up because the U.S. government has
mandated that ethanol be added to all grades of motor fuel
year-round.
(Note: additional questions related to performance, fuel
consumption, installation, prop flange design, prop weight,
firewall kit contents, and access questions will follow
another day)
Thanks in advance for your response.
Regards,
Bruce
XS 142
Tracy, CA
Message 13
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--> Europa-List message posted by: NevEyre@aol.com
Hi Ferg,
Sorry, the Queens English doesn't translate too well into Crazy Canook.
Wot I ment two rite woz....
The first pvc tape finnishes 1/2'' from the finnished paint line [ which is
1/8'' away from the flange edge] This tape stays on untill the end. On top of
the first tape, overlap the second piece of tape, which secures the polythene
sheet,[ this tape, and the poly' also stays on to the end....
The third piece of tape, which goes up to the paint line, as it is 3/4'' or
so wide, will overlap the first piece, to protect the outer edge.
This third piece, is the only one to be replaced during sanding / bonding /
filling / sanding / painting, as and when it gets damaged. The first two strips
of tape never get damaged.
Use quality [ 3M again, I don't have shares in 3 M, honest !] PVC tape,
cheaper ones may have adhesive which goes hard over a period of time.
Cheers,
Nev.
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Jabiru Support for Europa -- was: Firewall Forward-less |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
Bruce,
You missed from your list of options the most important attribute of any
aircraft power plant:
Reliability.
That may be a tough one to beat in a face-off with the 912. And maybe the
source of your anxiousness (<<....I anxiously look forward to....>>)!!
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Bruce" <bruce@justbruce.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Jabiru Support for Europa -- was: Firewall
Forward-less
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bruce" <bruce@justbruce.com>
>
> (like all my e-mails, a bit long)
>
> Hey Andy
> (Andy Silvester -- Suncoast Sportplanes -- Jabiru Dealer in
> U.S.)
>
> We welcome your participation in the Europa-List.
>
> In a previous e-mail, you mentioned that another Jabiru 3300
> installation had been accomplished in a Europa. Perhaps like
> other Europa builders, I anxiously look forward to
> evaluating realistic alternatives to the Rotax powerplants
> that have been promoted by Europa. I know that Europa
> evaluated a number of powerplants back in the early days,
> and that none of the alternatives including rotary,
> motorcycle, and Subaru powerplants were ever supported by
> the factory. Later on, the Jabiru engine and firewall
> forward kit became available, but Europa never endorsed,
> sold or supported the Jabiru alternative. Perhaps Europa
> hesitated to endorse a powerplant vendor who could also be
> considered an airframe competitor.
>
> Where we stand today is that Europa is not currently selling
> Rotax firewall forward kits anywhere in the world. The time
> is ripe for you to let us know why Jabiru should be our
> choice for powerplants. Many builders have an immediate need
> and others like me are still building and won't need
> powerplants for at least a year, but would like to decide on
> a powerplant soon so we can incorporate any unique
> construction requirements.
>
> The challenge that we as potential purchasers have, and you
> as Jabiru distributors can assist us with, is the lack of
> information that can be used to compare the various power
> plants that are realistic options. I define realistic
> options as those power plants that:
> 1. are available as a complete firewall forward kit
> 2. are supported locally by factory authorized dealers
> 3. have successfully been installed in Europas
> 4. have Europa-based performance information available
> that is based on real-life experiences
> 5. provide satisfactory performance in terms of fuel
> consumption, and speed
>
>
> Questions for today: Perhaps you or the other Jabiru
> distributors around the world will respond?
> 1. How many Jabiru 3300s have been sold?
> 2. How many Jabiru powerplants have been sold and
> installed in non-Jabiru airframes.
> 3. How many Jabirus 3300s have been installed in
> Europas?
> 4. Are there any non-Jabiru airframes (i.e.: Zenith,
> Sonex, Glastar, etc) where builders have been particularly
> receptive to installing Jabirus 3300s. In particular I'd
> like to know why they choose the Jabiru over the Rotax
> alternatives, especially in airframes that have similar
> characteristics and missions as the Europa.
> 5. Tell us about the dealer/distributor network. In
> particular I want to know about those in North America, but
> perhaps Jabiru dealers outside of North America will respond
> and let us know what territories they manage. I'm curious
> as to how long the dealers have been in business, what kind
> of support and in-house service they can offer us, do the
> dealers have protected territories (or can we deal with any
> of them), and whether the dealers are committed to working
> full time for Jabiru, or is it a part-time business for
> them.
> 6. What are the fuel requirements for the Jabiru? I know
> this can get complicated as motor fuel differs in each state
> and country. Jabiru specifies 95 RON octane which is 91 CLC
> (or Pump Octane) in North America. Here in California it is
> even more screwed up because the U.S. government has
> mandated that ethanol be added to all grades of motor fuel
> year-round.
>
>
> (Note: additional questions related to performance, fuel
> consumption, installation, prop flange design, prop weight,
> firewall kit contents, and access questions will follow
> another day)
>
>
> Thanks in advance for your response.
>
> Regards,
>
> Bruce
> XS 142
> Tracy, CA
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Pip-pin accident! Need spare and medical help! |
0.00 MANY_EXCLAMATIONS Subject has many exclamations
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
> Have been away for the weekend and just trying to catch up on the list
> items.
> With respect to the Pip Pins for the main spars, just want to draw
> everybody's attention to the fact that those listed in the Aircraft Spruce
> Catalog(ue) are quote "NOT FOR STRUCTURAL USE ON AIRCRAFT"
>
> It may be worth checking this out with other suppliers too.
>
> Just thought I'd point this out.
>
> Regards
> Kingsley
Sure, and the paperwork that comes with the Facet fuel pump used in ? most
Europas specifically says
"Not for aircraft usage"
So that is just a "cover against claims"
As a cynic I would say that if the price of a component in the Europa
catalogue is exactly twice the price you can find in someone else's
catalogue, then you have found the right part.
If you want an example of this (actually the only example I know of !) check
out the price of the big capacitor that is needed on the rectifier/regulator
circuit, in the RS Components catalogue. Easy to look up as the Europa
catalogue uses a part number which is identical to the RS part number !
Richard
Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS)
Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax)
Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile)
SG12 8SH email : rholder@avnet.co.uk
Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, High Cross
PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford)
Message 16
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| Subject: | Jabiru Support for Europa -- was: Firewall Forward-less |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Andy Silvester" <info@suncoastjabiru.com>
Bruce,
Thanks for the welcome. I'll do my best to answer your questions in order:
Q. How many Jabiru 3300s have been sold?
A. Currently Jabiru are up to engine number 700 (approx) for 3300s, and
nearly 2000 of the 4 - cylinder 2200s, both non type-certificated. Jabiru
has a successful track-record producing type-certificated aircraft and
engines and these (2200s) number over 1000 approx. I think it's worth
mentioning that Jabiru produced these type-certificated versions well before
the 'experimental' versions, and they therefore have all the quality systems
(traceability, standards, etc) to support this effort. However, the Jabiru
guys will quickly tell you "we make no apology for improving our products"
and it's therefore important that they have this development stream for our
market. Changes to both 2200s and 3300s are very few these days, so the
development curve is pretty flat.
Q. How many Jabiru powerplants have been sold and installed in non-Jabiru
airframes.
A. I don't have an accurate number, but it should be around 70% of their
production. We sell engines to about 75 non - Jabiru aircraft types, from
ultralights to (more recently) Van's RVs etc. Jabiru have engine solutions
from 85hp to 180hp.
Q. How many Jabirus 3300s have been installed in Europas?
A. I don't know this, as my focus is only southern USA, but my guess is
somewhere between 15 and 30 worldwide, maybe more. I'm sure there will be
comments like "why so low?", and I'll stand-by my view that there is no
technical reason why the Jabiru isn't as popular as other types. The answer
(for me) is based on the previous opinions of Keith Wilson in UK, his
preference for Rotax and (for whatever reason) the inability of the UK
Jabiru dealer to change this view, despite my certain knowledge that he
tried very hard! I can certainly understand the view from an OEM kit
manufacturer that they 'stick with what they know' in terms of engine choice
We see this often, but find in most cases that builders choose alternative
engines and once a 'critical mass' of happy owners is established and
confidence in the product and its service-backup is established, the Kit
Manufacturer then gets interested, because more and more builders are asking
about engine choice, rather than getting the standard offering. It's at this
point of 'interested early involvement' that we found ourselves about a year
ago with Europa, and hence my work with John Hurst since then. Here's a good
analogy: Van's aircraft have a long and successful commercial relationship
with Lycoming (and why not?), and, while Dick Van Grunsven always comes to
see us briefly at the big USA shows, he's not about to dump his business
with Lycoming and switch to Jabiru. However, more RV builders are turning to
non - Lycoming engines and now that we have a Jabiru 180hp engine, we can
tell he is getting more interested. When the critical mass is reached, he
can't afford to ignore the alternatives.
Q. Are there any non-Jabiru airframes (i.e.: Zenith, Sonex, Glastar, etc)
where builders have been particularly receptive to installing Jabirus 3300s.
In particular I'd like to know why they choose the Jabiru over the Rotax
alternatives, especially in airframes that have similar characteristics and
missions as the Europa.
A. As mentioned above, there are a growing number of Kit Manufacturers who
are recommending the Jabiru as the engine-of-choice. Zenith were a fairly
tough nut to crack, but they now favor the 3300 ahead of anything else for
their 601 - series. Sonex too, choose the 2200 and 3300 as the best choice
(performance-wise) for their aircraft, but they also offer their
do-it-yourself VW conversion for the lower-budget market. Indus Aviation
with their re-production of the Thorp T211 choose the Jabiru 3300. There are
many more instances. For examples closer to the Europa performance, Pulsar
have an increasing customer base choosing Jabirus, and in USA and UK, where
the Esqual Kit dealers happen to also be Jabiru dealers, of course the
Jabiru is offered in preference (!), and the aircraft performs very well
with it. The direct-drive Jabiru is seen by some who compare to Rotax geared
engines, as propeller - inefficient, because of the 'physics' that a large
diameter propeller turning slower produces more static thrust than does a
smaller prop. going faster. In fact, we have proven many times-over that
with the right propeller, aircraft such as the Kitfox and Avid and other
relatively slow, draggy types, perform better in the view of their owners
than when they were fitted with Rotax 582s or 912s. I stress the importance
of propeller selection, and we have no hesitation in recommending the
excellent line of Sensenich wood props which are optimized for the Jabiru
engine. I operate the Airmaster AP332 CS propeller on our demo aircraft and
I'm very pleased with its performance.
Q. Tell us about the dealer/distributor network. In particular I want to
know about those in North America, but perhaps Jabiru dealers outside of
North America will respond and let us know what territories they manage.
I'm curious as to how long the dealers have been in business, what kind
of support and in-house service they can offer us, do the dealers have
protected territories (or can we deal with any of them), and whether the
dealers are committed to working full time for Jabiru, or is it a part-time
business for them.
A. For a number of years (up to 3-4 years ago), Jabiru had appointed a
succession of single dealers covering the entire USA, and for diverse
reasons, not too successfully. At the time (Early 2001) I was appointed as
one of 4 dealers covering North America including Canada, Jabiru made it
clear they wanted individuals with 'real world' experience with Jabiru
products as owners and motivated enthusiasts for the product, rather than
individuals who could talk a good game or dazzle the Aussies with money. In
case you're wondering, I fall into the first category....All 3 dealers in
USA (and one in Canada) have personally built Jabiru kits, operate Jabiru
aircraft (and hence the engines) on a daily basis and are trained by Jabiru
to do all service operations up to TBO. We dealers work well together,
despite being separate businesses, with defined trading territories. We
defend these territories for retail engine and kit sales, but in the case of
sales to OEM Kit manufacturers, through OEM agreements we supply
firewall-forward kits to (e.g.) Europa customers wherever they sell aircraft
in USA. I hope you can see that, since Europa Aircraft were established
within the sales territory of our Jabiru dealership, I am happy to lead the
development effort for the Jabiru 3300 engine for Europa. There's certainly
no problem for Jabiru owners to choose to buy spare parts or consumables
from their choice of Jabiru dealer, but sales of Europa F/F kits in North
America should come from us as (i) we established the initial relationship
with Europa and (ii) I feel we are better - placed to provide support for an
installation which we developed.
Q. What are the fuel requirements for the Jabiru? I know this can get
complicated as motor fuel differs in each state and country. Jabiru
specifies 95 RON octane which is 91 CLC (or Pump Octane) in North America.
Here in California it is even more screwed up because the U.S. government
has mandated that ethanol be added to all grades of motor fuel
year-round.
A. New Jabiru engines run equally well on either 91 Octane pump-gas
(actually 95 RON) or 100LL AvGas. They run cleaner on unleaded fuel, but
it's the octane rating, not the lead content, that is important. Since
production started, compression ratios have steadily reduced, from 9.2:1
originally to about 8:1 today, so that unleaded auto-gas can be used without
problems. However, as we all know, the quality of auto-gas differs across
the world which is why Jabiru specify 100LL as the preference on their
literature in Australia. We advise owners to check with their auto gas
supplier how the octane is derived; the addition of high levels of alcohol /
ethanol to achieve the octane level is less preferable than better-quality
fuels where the crude is distilled more to include the higher fractions.
(No, I'm not a chemist, but I have experience to know that better results
are achieved from the 'better quality' gas companies).
On the subject of fuel, I'm pleased to report that Jabiru have recently
developed a new-shape needle for the Bing carburetor. I fitted it (and the
corresponding jets) to our demo airplane and already see a 22% improvement
in fuel burn. 120 kts TAS cruise at 75% power in our 4-place demo. Now gives
5 US gph. Clearly, I'll be doing more in-depth measurement and will be in a
better position to report more accurate results soon. Incidentally, the 3300
on our demo. is serial #002, was rebuilt about 300hours ago but goes as good
as a new one.
Keep the questions coming, Bruce!
Cheers
Andy Silvester
Suncoast Sportplanes, Inc.
www.suncoastjabiru.com
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