Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:33 AM - Re: Wiring conduits (JR (Bob) Gowing)
2. 04:49 AM - Insulating fuel and oil lines (Johnsen, Svein K.)
3. 07:06 AM - Re: Copper State Fly-In (David DeFord)
4. 07:50 AM - Re: Electrical question for 914 folks (M.J. Gregory)
5. 09:34 AM - Copperstate (Dan Bish)
6. 09:35 AM - Re: long range fuel tank (Dale G. HetriG Hetrick)
7. 11:03 AM - 912S Starting (Richard Holder)
8. 12:39 PM - Re: long range fuel tank (SteveD)
9. 12:50 PM - strange emails (Steven Pitt)
10. 01:08 PM - Re: E-mail contact for E(2004)? (Dean Seitz)
11. 01:36 PM - Re: Electrical question for 914 folks (rlborger)
12. 02:42 PM - news about ordering from europa factory (Rowland Carson)
13. 03:32 PM - Re: Jabiru Engine Questions (round 2 of 2) ()
14. 04:04 PM - Re: Europa glider pilots (Bill and Sue)
15. 06:39 PM - Re: long range fuel tank (Kevin Klinefelter)
16. 06:52 PM - Re: Copper State Fly-In (Kevin Klinefelter)
17. 07:11 PM - Re: Re: Europa glider pilots (Cliff Shaw)
18. 07:26 PM - Sample of Australian Jabiru Cowling (Kingsley Hurst)
19. 08:16 PM - Europa-USA Website (Bob Jacobsen)
20. 08:57 PM - Re: Copper State Fly-In (Dale G. HetriG Hetrick)
21. 09:24 PM - Re: Copper State Fly-In (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Wiring conduits |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "JR (Bob) Gowing" <gowingjr@acr.net.au>
For John Lawton
Regarding your words
"2 layers of 'bid sandwich a layer of "E" glass
> tape were applied to each mold extending out about 3/4" past the side
edges of the PVC to provide flanges"
Could you explain what "E" glass tape is please?
and yes I would like to see one or perhaps two photos to me off list.
J R (Bob) Gowing, UK Kit 327 in Oz working on adj seats after flaps in
working condition.
----- Original Message -----
From: <TELEDYNMCS@aol.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Wiring conduits
> --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
>
> In a message dated 10/4/2004 2:59:21 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
> europa-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
>
> > Andrew,
> > ...don't know the details of your 'ready made' module, but I
> > would suggest planning the routing for wires (conduits) before gluing
in.
> > There are a number of routes for wiring which may be arduous after the
> > insertion and now would be the time..... I had the advantage of
assembling
> > old-style and have imbedded drink straw routes through some of the
cockpit
> > where not structural, and included double length pullthrough fishing
line
> > for any future inclusion.
> > Like several others, I opted for alu fuel lines where they are
> > difficult to replace, hoping thereby to avoid scraped knuckles in 5
> > years...........
> > Cheers and good luck,
> > Ferg
> > A064
>
> Greetings all,
>
> I thought I'd chime in here since I just finished my conduits. What I did
was
> make a mold using PVC pipe, actually about quarter round of a 2" PVC pipe.
I
> cut the PVC lenthwise in half with a band saw, then in half again and
> flattened out the edges using a belt sander. Then a cut for the proper
length for the
> conduit was made, plus a couple of inches. Then I taped the 4 PVC quarter
> rounds to a piece of particle board and covered it in packing tape,
leaving enough
> space between them to allow for flanges of about 3/4" on each side of the
> PVC, thereby completing the mold. 2 layers of 'bid sandwich a layer of "E"
glass
> tape were applied to each mold extending out about 3/4" past the side
edges of
> the PVC to provide flanges for later installation with flox and a few
inches
> longer than needed. 4 of these were made. Two to go from the rear bulkhead
to
> the door sill and two to go from the forward edge of the door sills to the
> instrument panel. Installing them over the rebate between the upper and
lower
> fuselage halves results in the inside diameter of these conduits being
slightly
> larger than a BNC connector, so should I ever have to replace coax it can
be
> done. On the right side the rear conduit intersects the fuel filler cover
front
> and back, but isn't tied into the fuel filler cover. Slots were shaped
into
> the cover to accept the molded conduits.
>
> Next, and since reinforcement is needed under the door sills to keep the
> paint from cracking due to putting your weight on the sill during entering
and
> exiting the aircraft, I roughly fabricated foam molds, triangular in
shape, on
> the bandsaw, long enough to run the length of the door, plus a couple of
inches
> fore and aft. Then the foam was hot glued in place under the door sills. I
> then clamped the previously made conduits in place and the foam was sanded
to a
> nice shape so that it flows neatly from conduit to door sill conduit to
> conduit. This foam was also sanded to shape so that it ties smoothly into
the
> irrigation pipe conduit I made in the windscreen frame to feed switch
wires and XM
> antenna feed to my overhead panel. I then taped over the molded conduits
and the
> foam with packing tape and covered the door sill area with 3 layers of
'bid,
> including about a 1" overlap onto the previously molded conduits for and
aft.
> Once the door sills kicked, I removed all the molded parts, cleaned up the
> edges on the band saw, scuffed the bonding flanges and re-installed all of
the
> conduits with flox. Sanding and floating in the edges with a small amount
of
> bondo after the flox kicked and painting the cockpit with Zolatone
resulted in
> conduits which look like they are molded as part of the fuselage side. The
door
> sills are really stiff too. I'm very pleased with the results. It kills
two
> birds with one rock and the result is certainly worth the 10 or so hours
it took
> to make them.
>
> I'd be happy to send pictures off list to anyone interested in seeing this
> method. It really makes the cockpit look nice.
>
> I didn't leave a pull string, but what you can do is use a shop vac on one
> end of the conduit to suck a length of string through should the need
arise to
> add wires. I learned this trick from an electrician friend and it works
great!
>
> Regards,
>
> John Lawton
> Dunlap, TN
> A-245 (Working on the tailpost and rudder between glider tows)
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Insulating fuel and oil lines |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Johnsen, Svein K." <Svein.Johnsen@MossWW.com>
All,
In March, 2002, there was a brief exchange on the Forum regarding the need for
insulating fuel lines in the engine compartment.
One message stated that FIRESLEEVE (in capitals, so I guess it refers to the Aeroquip
Firesleeve) is part of a mandatory mod in the UK to reduce the possibility
of vapour locks. I.e. a required protection against heat (in addition to
the fire protection offered by this sleeve).
A response to that message can be read to say that the fuel lines are required
only to have protection against fire, while insulation against heat as well as
fireproofing is only required on the oil return hose from the crankcase (which
would otherwise harden and crack).
I would appreciate a clarification as to what PFA's requirements are in this respect
(both for fuel and oil lines), as well as any recommendation beyond PFA's
requirements that builders have incorporated with good results.
Thanks!
Regards,
Svein
A225 - now in Norway, where we get by with what the factory specifies, but maybe
live longer if we add a little extra here and there?
Message 3
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| Subject: | Copper State Fly-In |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "David DeFord" <davedeford@comcast.net>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
>
> Well, that appears to be three of us.
>
> David, Dan, & Mike (me).....anyone else? Anyone flying their
> Europa in?
>
> Do Not Archive
I'll be flying in on Saturday in N135TD (XS monowheel, 912S).
Dave DeFord
N135TD (flying)
Message 4
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| Subject: | Electrical question for 914 folks |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "M.J. Gregory" <m.j.gregory@talk21.com>
Hello Bob,
The diagram on page 25-11 was developed for the 914 installation after Andy
had an incident on a demonstration ride where the handling pilot switched
OFF the number one fuel pump instead of switching ON the number two pump
during the pre-landing checks. Because the 914 has no mechanical pump, it
all went very tense for short time. There was a Rotax recommendation to
connect one pump directly to the output of the alternator, and the circuit
was revised to do this downstream of the 30 Amp Slow Blow fuse that was
incorporated on the firewall side to protect the cable feeding the bus bar.
This pump has its own 5 Amp circuit breaker, before the switch connecting
the alternator to the bus bar.
This arrangement, together with the number two pump (labelled "secondary
fuel pump" on page 25-11) connected to the main bus bar, allows you to
switch on the battery master (whether you use a solenoid or a direct switch)
and carry out any actions such as programming your GPS without running
either pump. When you are ready to start, the number two pump can be
switched on briefly to check it can supply pressure. The alternator feed
switch should be closed before the engine is started, because it is not
recommended that the alternator should run without a connection to the
battery, and this will automatically switch on the number one pump. If you
wish to be able to isolate the number one pump when the engine is running, I
would recommend a pullable circuit breaker rather than adding a switch,
since you wouldn't normally wish to do this (OK, OK, some people may wish to
even out the wear on the pumps, but they could do this by switching the
electrical connections every annual rather than adding an extra circuit
component).
Ivan Shaw originally asked for the trim circuit to be arranged so that it
could be operated in the event of a dead stick landing after the master
switch had been turned off. This therefore required a feed direct from the
battery rather than downstream of the isolator/master, together with its own
fuse and switch. If you do not wish to have this feature, the trim circuit
could be fed off the main bus. Again, there should be a fuse to protect the
wiring and a switch to isolate the circuit in the event of a trim runaway.
Hope this helps
Mike
Europa Club Safety Officer
--> Europa-List message posted by: rlborger <rlborger@mac.com>
Europaphiles,
This is the question I had for Andy. Perhaps some of you folks who have
completed a 914 installation can help.
I am completing the electrical wiring. I have some questions about wiring
in the two fuel pumps and the trim system.
The diagram on page 25-11 shows a single fuel pump being fed from right from
the load side of the Main alternator through a 30 Amp Slow Blow fuse and
simple 5 Amp breaker. None of your electrical diagrams show the wiring for
electrical fuel pump #2 for the 914.
My aircraft has the battery isolator solenoid fitted.
My panel, as wired by Gulf Coast Avionics, has a 35 Amp circuit breaker in
the electrically equivalent location of the 30 Amp Slow Blow Fuse.
They have pump #1 being being supplied from the Line side of the main
circuit breaker, thence through a 5 Amp circuit breaker and to the pump. I
believe this is the electrical equivalent of the circuit for pump 1.
Presently, the only way to shut off pump #1 is to pull the circuit breaker.
Should pump #1 go through a switched breaker rather
than a simple breaker?
Pump #2 is presently supplied from the Load side of the main circuit
breaker, thence through a switched 5 Amp circuit breaker and to the pump.
Is this correct? Is this OK? Or, should it also be supplied from the Line
side of the main circuit breaker?
Your diagram (25-11 again) states that the trim should be fed directly from
the battery if the battery isolator solenoid is fitted. Should it be fed
from the hot side of the solenoid or from the load side of the solenoid?
The trim wiring, as supplied by GCA, is fed from the Load side of the main
circuit breaker and no switch is provided. I do plan to add a switch to the
trim circuit. I need to know from where it should be supplied.
I hope this is clear. If not, let me know and I'll try to provide a better
description.
Good building all,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, 914, Airmaster C/S
http://forum.okhuijsen.org/N914XL
Message 5
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Dan Bish" <danbish@norwalktucson.com>
For those still going to Copperstate this weekend and want to touch base,
drop a note with your cell off list to:
N914RB@earthlink.net
See you there,
Dan Bish - Tucson, AZ
Kit A144 - N914RB - Mono w/914 & Airmaster prop CM in, Tail planes, mass
balance, tail wheel & main gear in. GSingleton tail wheel mod in, working on
rudder, fuel system, baggage area.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: long range fuel tank |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Dale G. HetriG Hetrick" <gdale2@juno.com>
Paul,
Would you please send the same info to me?
Thanks,
Dale
gdale2@juno.com
Message 7
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
Team, anyone not using a 912S (or planning to use a 912S) can delete this
now.
I have just returned from trailering my Europa from near Stansted to Shobdon
(yesterday) and back (today).
I took it to Adrian Lloyd who changed my sprag clutch (in situ) and replaced
the starter motor with the Heavy Duty one. It was whole load of hassle and
it cost me muchos but it had to be done. With the new starter it
whizzes round when I turn the key and starts straight away. It wasn't
starting at all before.
I think that most, if not ALL, 912Ss will need to have this done sooner or
later. Mine didn't start well all last winter and it reoccurred recently. My
engine has done just 100 hours !
I would say that it is essential for ANYONE ordering a 912S to insist on the
Heavy Duty starter. I believe it is only an extra 70 if bought with the
engine. Mine cost 300. (Anyone want a lightly used standard starter ???)
I also think that if you ever have the blade kick-back at start-up you will
sooner or later screw up your sprag clutch, so the onset of kick-back should
send you off to Rotax to buy the HD starter immediately.
I say this as a due warning - listen, discuss, but don't blame me if you
ignore me and need a sprag clutch replacement 2 years down the line.
In fact I really think that Rotax are at fault in the design of this engine
and that they should be liable for the replacement starters and the cost of
replacements and any damage caused by the weak starter. I rather think the
cost of such an admission by them will make the admission of liability
unlikely.
My aircraft is a classic but it has an XS firewall forward so that the sprag
clutch and the starter could be changed in situ. I understand that the
Classic firewall forward installation has less room and engine-out is
required for the replacement of the sprag clutch. The bad news for classic
FWF owners is that the HD starter will not fit as there is not enough room
for it (allegedly - I haven't looked at one).
I will report back after a few flights (or starts) to be sure that the
problem has gone away. I can thoroughly recommend Adrian Lloyd at MicroAir
at Shobdon who did a brilliant job.
Richard with a depleted wallet but (hopefully) a working aeroplane.
Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS)
Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax)
Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile)
SG12 8SH email : rholder@avnet.co.uk
Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, High Cross
PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford)
Message 8
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| Subject: | RE: long range fuel tank |
2.60 REPLY_TO_EMPTY Reply-To: is empty
--> Europa-List message posted by: "SteveD" <Post2Forum@comcast.net>
Paul,
Why not sign up on the EuropaForum and post the pics on Europa-list. Then everyone
can get peek.
Heard you made it to Rough River fly-in, did you park tail down with the wings
rigged backwards? :)
Chat later,
Steved
----------------
Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://forum.okhuijsen.org/
Message 9
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Steven Pitt" <steven.pitt2@ntlworld.com>
I have ben receiving strange blank emails with attachments from a site ref: 'number'@matronics.com,
the 'number' is about 10 to 15 characters long but I do not
know if it is the same each time..
I have not opened any of the attachments and ditch the messages immediately.
Is anyone else receiving such, should I be worried, am I in danger or endangering
anyone else?
Steve Pitt #403
Message 10
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| Subject: | E-mail contact for E(2004)? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Dean Seitz" <daseitz@cfl.rr.com>
It's the same number as before 011-44-1751-431773
> Dean Seitz
> Kit A284 N284A XS Tri, High Top, 914
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Vaughn
Teegarden
Subject: Re: Europa-List: E-mail contact for E(2004)?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn Teegarden"
<VRTEEGARDEN@peoplepc.com>
If you talked to them, would you share the phone number or is it the same as
before. I tried there today and only got a busy signal. Of course it could
be that the only line that Sprint has out of Bristol, VA was tied up.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Electrical question for 914 folks |
--> Europa-List message posted by: rlborger <rlborger@mac.com>
Mike,
Thanks for the info. That's exactly what I needed.
Do Not Archive.
Good building and great flying all,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, 914, Airmaster C/S
http://forum.okhuijsen.org/N914XL
(75%) tail kit done, wings closed, cockpit module installed, pitch
system in, landing gear frame in, rudder system in, outrigger mod in,
Fuselage Top on, lift/drag/flap pins in, wing incidence set, tie bar
in, flap drive in. Working in - 24 Instrument Panel, 25 Electrical, 27
Setting Wings, 28 Flaps, 29 Main Gear, 30 Fuel System, 32 Tail, 34 Door
Latches & 35 Doors, 37 Finishing.
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
Message 12
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| Subject: | news about ordering from europa factory |
0.10 FULL_REFUND BODY: Offers a full refund
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
I have recently been in touch with Andy Draper, and he tells me that
they can now take payment for orders by credit card. Orders should
be placed by fax (+44
1751 431706), post or phone as the e-mails are not yet working.
Things are gradually getting back to normal!
Incidentally, speaking of credit cards, a member who had ordered
goods from the old Europa company and failed to receive them,
reported that his credit card company gave him a full refund. Anyone
else who paid by card and hasn't yet explored this route should do so
with all speed. Sorry, it's no comfort to the folk who paid big bucks
by bank transfer or cheque etc.
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary - email for info!
| Europa 435 G-ROWI (730 hours building) PFA #16532
| e-mail <memsec@europaclub.org.uk> website <www.europaclub.org.uk>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Jabiru Engine Questions (round 2 of 2) |
--> Europa-List message posted by: <info@suncoastjabiru.com>
Bruce,
As promised, here's my responses to your latest questions:
Q. Reliability: By popular demand, we would like to hear
your comments about reliability. What statistics have
Jabiru gathered? I'm sure others on the list will respond
with their own experiences and observations. This issue is
of utmost concern for all of us evaluating powerplants, and
perhaps the most difficult thing for you to prove to us.
A. This subject needs a bit of background, so please bear with me! Jabiru
originally built the 4 - cylinder engine for their own aircraft, back in
about 1990. They had developed a factory-built / type-certificated composite
aircraft for the Australian training and 'Sport Aviation' market, and were
relying on the Italian KFM 1600cc engine for power. Within a few weeks of
gaining the type certificate and having almost spent all their reserves, KFM
decided to cease making engines for aircraft. Jabiru were faced
(essentially) with the Rotax 2-stroke engine (the 912 wasn't yet available
to them) as the only power plant meeting the airframe's requirements for
power and weight. They decided against 2-strokes (for reliability) and took
the unusual and bold step to design and build their own 4 - stroke engine.
The first example was flying 11 months from initial concept. The engine was
very successful in the Jabiru aircraft, and it soon became attractive to
other aircraft and kit manufacturers. Some issues (not many, but enough)
became apparent of cylinder cooling in slower cowled-in installations, like
the Kitfox, Avid, some ultralights, etc. Jabiru responded to this in the
spirit of continuous improvement, and, along with improvements in CNC
manufacturing techniques and better materials, have implemented over 1000
manufacturing changes in (mainly) the 4 - cylinder engine in the first 700
engines built. Since then (i.e. engine serial number 711), only one or two
significant changes have been made. This illustrates currently a very flat
development curve, and is the reason why, for engines over s/n 711, the Time
Between Major Overhauls (TBO) is now 2000 hours, from 1000 before. The 6 -
cylinder engine has a similar track-record; we see very few changes these
days, and these engines also carry a 2000 hour TBO.
It's also worth noting, while discussing reliability, that Jabiru have many
hundreds of type-certificated aircraft / engines in the tough environment of
flight training in Australia. All of these engines are required to be
returned to the factory for major service and this gives them very valuable
experience for product development. Some of these engines have over 6000
hours in service (i.e. multiple TBO overhauls).
Listers here will be aware of claims that Jabiru engines 'suffer from
cooling problems', and of course and unfortunately a few such cases make
bigger news than those with no problems, such is the nature of these lists!
My experience has shown that these days, it is the INSTALLATION, and not the
basic engine, that can lead to problems of cooling. My job with Europa
owners and prospects, is to try to produce a package that can be repeated
time after time, with equally good results, so we avoid some of the pitfalls
people make when trying to design-it-themselves.
Q. Cowling / appearance: I've searched various Jabiru
factory and dealer websites and have been unable to locate
any Europa cowling photos other than Bob Harrison's one-off
(?) solution. I understand from your recent e-mail comments
that there are two commercially available cowlings -- the
one from the Jabiru factory and another one that you
(Suncoast Jabiru) have produced.
A. I'll post some comparative pictures (Jabiru's and ours) on a new page on
our web site within the next week or so, and will post a brief message with
a link to it as soon as it's available.
Q. Installation: Do you have any photos of a recent
vintage Jab 3300, installed in a Europa XS. (The only
images that are easy to find are Bob Harrison's Classic
Europa utilizing a custom cowling (?) and a custom (?)
engine mount? I'd appreciate seeing a series of photos
taken at different stages of the installation showing
pre-install preparation (fuel line and power feeds etc.),
engine mount only installed, then photos with engine
mounted, then with air baffles mounted and modified as
necessary, then with bottom cowl, and finally with the top
cowl all closed up and ready to go.
A. I'll post all available pictures on our site www.suncoastjabiru.com (see
the answer above) and will commit to updating them as more information
becomes available. I'm working now on a Customer's aircraft and will post
pictures accordingly. However, I don't have the luxury of installing an
engine on a new kit, nor indeed unlimited time to produce all the
information I'd like to, at this stage. My aim is to capture sufficient key
information to be able to guide a builder through all aspects of the
installation.
Q. Serviceability and access: I recall Bob Harrison
commenting somewhere that it was challenging to access the
carburetor and perhaps other components in his Europa
Classic. I think he also speculated that access in a Europa
XS would be even tighter due to the XS's extended foot
wells. (Sorry Bob H. if you are not the one who posted this
observation). I would appreciate hearing comments from Andy
or Jabiru users regarding this concern. I also would like
to see photos that illustrate this issue if it really is a
problem and what you do as a "work-around".
A. I take the point, but I don't see the XS installation as any more
difficult than others in my exerience. The carburetor is accessible, but of
course the footwells make it a bit more difficult than types with a 'flat'
firewall. We have set-up the airbox to deliver the intake air directly
downwards from the box, through the SCAT duct to the carburetor.
Q. Electrical generating capability: From the archives of
the Europa List and the Jabiru List, I have found that many
builders believe that perhaps neither Jabiru nor Rotaxes
have alternators sufficient to power all the strobes, nav
lights, wig-wag recognition lights, avionics, and other toys
that we would like to run. Obviously most Europa's are
flown with the standard Rotax or Jabiru alternators, but is
it feasible to stack a pair of the Jab alternators on the
rear of the 3300 like I believe they do on the Jab 5100 and
does the Europa installation leave you enough room to do so?
Would there be adequate room to mount one of B&C's vacuum
pump alternators on the Jabiru vacuum pad, (and does it
work). Are there belt-driven alternators that can be
sourced and do they fit under the cowl?
A. The supplied alternator delivers 20 amps continuous and 25 amps
intermittent peak. I'm just now completing an assisted-build with a Customer
who has a very well equipped Jabiru aircraft: EFIS, Solid state Gyro, 2
GPSs, EIS, comm. radio, intercom, XPonder, VOR/ILS, Trafficscope, landing
Light, nav lights, 3 strobes, electric trim, Tru-Trak 2 - axis autopilot,
electric flaps, etc. We worked hard to find more than 11-12 amps continuous
load (i.e. stuff needed all the time), to about 18v peak. I'm sure there are
those who have, or need higher loads, but I was surprised how efficient most
of today's equipment is. In recognition of these possible needs, I've asked
Jabiru to produce the same double (tandem) alternator setup offered on the
new 8 - cylinder engine, and await their response. Some Customers have
achieved success mounting separated belt-driven alternators but we don't
support these in terms of design or functionality. The B&C alternator fitted
to the rear accessory pad is an alternative, but (as far as I know) it needs
higher RPM to provide meaningful output than can be provided by the Jabiru
at normal cruise speeds. I'll keep lobbying for the factory - designed
tandem alternator for those who need more than 25A.
Q. Prop flange design and prop weight: A Europa-List
member has provided very extensive documentation of the
challenges he faced and the modifications he had to make in
order to utilize his chosen constant speed prop with an
early Jabiru 3300. What is Jabiru's current position on
this matter and have modifications, changes to
specifications or other provisions been made in recent years
that address this issue.
A. I sympathize with, and applaud Bob Harrison for his tremendous efforts in
pioneering the fitment of the MT CS propeller. At the time, Jabiru were
making and supporting wood props (they still are) and the drive flange is
more-than-adequate for these prop types. Like MT, Airmaster provide their
own manufactured prop extension (where needed) and I don't see Jabiru
wanting to change this, at this stage. The advent of the 180hp 5.1 litre
engine, coupled with the rise in popularity of CS/VP props will influence
them to support these developments and I know of some development being
undertaken by Jabiru for their own composite ground adjustable (at this
stage) prop. Might come to nothing, but they are working on it.
Q. Lastly, inquiring minds are anxious for the
fuel-consumption update that you mentioned in an earlier
post. We need adequate and realistic fuel performance
details. Fuel usage in a Europa is a huge issue due to the
small tank size. Fuel capacity is only 18 U.S. gallons but
early Europa marketing materials diffused this issue by
discussing Kim Prout's 2.1 GPH economy-cruise experiences in
his 80 HP 912, and Dennis Vorheee's 200 MPH experiences with
his 914. A review of some of a list-member's postings
indicate Jabiru powered Europas will, based on his
experiences, only have a couple of hours of flight time. I
have saved emails from him reporting 7.08 (converted to U.S.
gallons) GPH at 125K and 6.12G GPH at economy cruise (110K).
(I believe his e-mails stated consumption in Imperial
gallons which I hope I have accurately converted to U.S.
gallons.) At his higher consumption rate, that works out to
only 2 hours and 34 minutes from which you have to subtract
a 30 to 45 minute reserve.
A. As I mentioned in a recent post, we've achieved a 20% (or so) improvement
in fuel consumption in our Jabiru 4 - place aircraft using an improved Bing
carburetor needle and associated jetting. However, I really can't predict
what the burn will be in the Europa, and our figures can only be
realistically compared with other Jabiru aircraft. Prop. choice is of
paramount importance, so we will need to measure this carefully with the
aircraft and propeller(s) we have available. At this stage, I'm confident
that the Europa's 18 US gallon tank will deliver over 3 safe hours of flight
with a late-model Jabiru engine.
Andy
Suncoast Sportplanes, Inc.
www.suncoastjabiru.com
Message 14
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| Subject: | RE: Europa glider pilots |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bill and Sue" <billandsue@billbell.co.uk>
Ok I own up. You can put me down as another Europa-building hang glider
pilot. I normally keep the two activities separate since both
fraternities seem to think the other are crazy.
I've flown hang gliders in the Owens Valley a few times, it has to be
one of the great flying experiences. I once failed to get a C150 up to
hang glider cruising height in the Owens valley- it would be interesting
to see how a normally-aspirated Europa would fare. At the risk of
starting a my-Europa-flies-higher-than-yours thread, what have those
lucky enough to have theirs flying found to be the ceiling for the
912/912S versions?
Do not Archive
Bill
Message 15
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| Subject: | long range fuel tank |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
And me too, Thanks Paul.
Kevin, kevann@gte.net
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Dale G. HetriG
Hetrick
Subject: Re: Europa-List: long range fuel tank
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Dale G. HetriG Hetrick"
<gdale2@juno.com>
Paul,
Would you please send the same info to me?
Thanks,
Dale
gdale2@juno.com
---
---
Message 16
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| Subject: | Copper State Fly-In |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
Hi Dave, I'd love to go with ya if Terry is not. Hope Ya'll are doing well,
Kevin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of David DeFord
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Copper State Fly-In
--> Europa-List message posted by: "David DeFord" <davedeford@comcast.net>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
>
> Well, that appears to be three of us.
>
> David, Dan, & Mike (me).....anyone else? Anyone flying their
> Europa in?
>
> Do Not Archive
I'll be flying in on Saturday in N135TD (XS monowheel, 912S).
Dave DeFord
N135TD (flying)
---
---
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: RE: Europa glider pilots |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
Bill
I took my 912S to 11,500 and was still climbing this past summer. It was
just me and a half tank of fuel (light). But on the trip to Oshkosh, full
of gas and luggage, Betty and I went to 10,500 going over the Rockies. It
climbed slow, but it was climbing.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds, WA 98020
425 776 5555
I did get to fly to Mt. St Helens. It was all steamed up !
At the risk of
> starting a my-Europa-flies-higher-than-yours thread, what have those
> lucky enough to have theirs flying found to be the ceiling for the
> 912/912S versions?
>
>
> Bill
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Sample of Australian Jabiru Cowling |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <hurstkr@growzone.com.au>
All,
I have posted a photo of an Australian built Europa XS fitted with the
6cyl Jabiru engine and Jabiru cowl.
You can see it on the forum under 'Builders Album' but the following
link should take you straight to it.
Note: The link will more than likely have to be concatenated after
appearing on the list.
http://forum.okhuijsen.org/modules.php?set_albumName=Builders-Album&id=E
uropa_366&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_photo.php
Regards
Kingsley
Message 19
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| Subject: | Europa-USA Website |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bob Jacobsen" <jacobsenra@hotmail.com>
Hi All,
Unfortunately I will no longer be able to keep the europa-usa website up.
If anyone is interested in taking it over it please let me know. I have the
address www.europa-usa.com plus the file.
Thanks
Bob Jacobsen
N201WH (sorry it's a Mooney)
Get ready for school! Find articles, homework help and more in the Back to
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Copper State Fly-In |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Dale G. HetriG Hetrick" <gdale2@juno.com>
All
Is there a list of Europas that are going to Copperstate? Bob Lindsay
and I are planning on leaving Friday AM and back Saturday. Any
rendezvous point?
Thanks,
Dale
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: Copper State Fly-In |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Hi Dave,
It'll be nice to see you again. It might be just as hot at the flyin as it
was the day you visited me in Redding. Want another hamburger?
Mike Duane
A207 XS Conventional gear
Redding, CA
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