Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 03:14 AM - Re Fuel Sender (mike toft)
2. 08:19 AM - E- (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
3. 08:23 AM - Re: FW: Concorde (Fergus Kyle)
4. 08:38 AM - E-glass vs. S-glass (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
5. 09:56 AM - Re: Fuel Sender (Dan Bish)
6. 09:56 AM - Re: Re Fuel Sender (Dan Bish)
7. 09:59 AM - Re: Re: Fuel Sender (Dan Bish)
8. 10:32 AM - Re: GPS problem (Fred Fillinger)
9. 10:41 AM - Re: GPS problem (Fred Fillinger)
10. 11:06 AM - Re: GPS problem (Davidghillam@aol.com)
11. 04:30 PM - Re: Fuel Sender (Ronald J. Parigoris)
12. 06:47 PM - Re: pip-pin - tailplane and wing (JR (Bob) Gowing)
13. 07:59 PM - Rotax Info from CopperState Fly-In (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
14. 09:12 PM - Re: Fuel Sender (Dan Bish)
Message 1
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "mike toft" <watervet@mweb.co.za>
Hi
I had to install the fuel sender long after completing the fuselage. What we did
was to drill a pilot hole through the top of the head rest, made up a spindle
to thread through the hole, then attached the correct size rotary cutter made
from a small piece of solid square metal bar with a adjustable cutter(piece
of hack saw blade works), now you can cut through the top of the cockpit module
easily - then follow the instructions for cutting into the tank with a hot soldering
iron - this leaves a rough uneven fit - so using double sided tape stick
a larger than the hole plastic bag to the side of the tank - this will catch
the swarf as you clean up the edges - then follow the rest of the instructions.
I used fishing line as safety device in case I dropped the gasket or nut
plate whilst inserting them into the tank - 'cause trying to retrieve a dropped
piece from the bottom is not a lot of fun -I know believe me.
Mike Toft
ZU CTG Trigear 914 Airmaster 80 Hours and still loving it
Been to the Kalahari Desert and Okavango Swamps 20 hours of phenomenal flying!!
Message 2
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--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
In a message dated 10/8/2004 2:59:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
europa-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
> Actually John, the difference between E glass and S glass has nothing to
> do with the weave style.
> E stands for "Electrical" grade and has a glass filament offering good
> tensile and compressive strength but relatively poor impact strength.
> This is the type most commonly used for homebuilds and marine
> applications - and is the glass supplied by Europa.
> "S" Glass was originally developed in the 1950s with a different
> chemical composition and a filament diameter about half that of "E"
> glass - giving a far greater wetted area.
> This results in improved interlaminar, compressive and tensile strength
> for a similar density. It is a much stronger reinforcement, approaching
> that of carbon fibre, but the down side is it costs more (over double).
> "In Europe, a third composition is available - "R" Glass. This is almost
> identical to the "S" glass available in the US.
> "E" glass is more vulnerable to attack by moisture than either "S" or
> "R" and for this reason the latter is usually specified for highly
> stressed and competition marine applications.
>
> All these materials can be woven into virtually any style and sized to
> suit the intended resin system, either polyester or epoxy. If ordering
> new glass cloth - check that it is sized for epoxy.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Nigel
>
>
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: FW: Concorde |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
----- Original Message -----
From: <DuaneFamly@aol.com>
Subject: : FW: Concorde
| Gerry,|
| Well, put. I guess that mine was more aimed at those that try to quell
| discussion, rather than an open discussion in a wider range.|
| I am presently at CopperState here in Arizona and am starting to hear some
| bad noise about aspects of European views on flying migrating here to the
US.
| Namely, privatizing many aspects of the FAA and FSS system. That would
lead to fees and charges for all the Wx info, Flight planning, etc. that are
now paid
| for with our taxes.|
| Mike Duane
| A207 XS Conventional gear
Quite right! .......and beware! The scum who dictate givvermint policy
hre said they were ridding us of unneeded civservs in the federable air
works. What they did was sell what our taxes had paid for, at a billion or
so, to the redundant civservs (in essence), never changed the taxes, but
began to charge for filing plans, 'centralising' radio services, and landing
fees at (my) federal fields if you entered the fed building (where my
federal urinal is). The landing fees at "private" (another story) airports
began charging and the rip-off soared in earnest. On border entry, the
Customs folk were so ashamed, they came out to the aircraft so we wouldn't
have to enter a fedifice.
Now, having mixed fed policing with dial-a-cop air traffic
operators, I expect there's a bonus for any bod who manages to charge an
aviator with a 'apprehended' misdemeanour. try and move that through the
courts! Sort of a traffic ticket bounty........
Ferg
A064
Message 4
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| Subject: | E-glass vs. S-glass |
LINK_TO_NO_SCHEME@matronics.com, BODY:, Contains@matronics.com,
link@matronics.com, without@matronics.com, http://@matronics.com,
prefix@matronics.com
--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
In a message dated 10/8/2004 2:59:26 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
europa-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
> Actually John, the difference between E glass and S glass has nothing to
> do with the weave style.
> E stands for "Electrical" grade and has a glass filament offering good
> tensile and compressive strength but relatively poor impact strength.
> This is the type most commonly used for homebuilds and marine
> applications - and is the glass supplied by Europa.
> "S" Glass was originally developed in the 1950s with a different
> chemical composition and a filament diameter about half that of "E"
> glass - giving a far greater wetted area.
> This results in improved interlaminar, compressive and tensile strength
> for a similar density. It is a much stronger reinforcement, approaching
> that of carbon fibre, but the down side is it costs more (over double).
> "In Europe, a third composition is available - "R" Glass. This is almost
> identical to the "S" glass available in the US.
> "E" glass is more vulnerable to attack by moisture than either "S" or
> "R" and for this reason the latter is usually specified for highly
> stressed and competition marine applications.
>
> All these materials can be woven into virtually any style and sized to
> suit the intended resin system, either polyester or epoxy. If ordering
> new glass cloth - check that it is sized for epoxy.
>
> Hope this helps
>
> Nigel
>
Hi Nigel,
Thanks for your input and obvious vast knowledge on the subject. Perhaps what
I should have said is the "E" glass I used is a standard weave, 8.7 oz. cloth
tape with woven edges and is as well suited to the Aeropoxy resin that I'm
using, as is the bid used. Rereading what I wrote does make it appear that I was
saying the the only difference between "E" glass and "S" glass was the weave
alone. Obviously, this isn't the case and I know better. I'll plead "BC" for
my mistake, that is before coffee.....
FWIW, I've found an excellent book called Composite Basics by Andrew C.
Marshal which goes into great detail about weaves, fibers, resins, core materials,
molding techniques, tooling, post curing, vacuum bagging techniques, etc. It's
not exactly what I would call "light reading", but it does seem to have
everything you ever wanted to know about composites and then some. In it's fifth
printing, it's up to date and is an excellent reference for those who want to
know more than the "Europa College" teaches. It's available from the Composite
Store online at www.cstsales.com, item #L105 but might also be available
elsewhere. I believe it is well worth the $35 spent and I highly recommend it if
you
want to know more about composites.
Sorry for the double post. Again, I plead BC.....
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245 (Back to the tailpost whilst I wait on the delivery of a 5/8" hole saw
for fitting my door latches)
Message 5
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Dan Bish" <N914RB@earthlink.net>
Hi Ron,
Thanks for the reply and yes, you installed the same thing I'm installing.
Any chance you have some photos of what you did and how it came out? Thanks,
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ronald J.
Parigoris
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Sender
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris"
<rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Hello Dan
I am not sure if Mod 60 with a LTS is what I installed, but it was the
Europa
Mod, i purchased from europa with a float style sender and came with a VDO
gauge.
Anyway I installed it in a accelerated CPM. The way i did it was to install
it
aft of the recommended location to avoid sitting on the seam of the tank. I
moved it sideways a bit as well to get to a flatter part of the tank as
well. I
positioned so I could access the phillips screws with a screwdriver with a
30
or 40 degree offset, it is the type with gears so you turn handle and the
tip
turns and stays at the offset. Could really not assemble in the position i
chose without that screwdriver. I had to work through the headrest hole,
very
tight, but 1/32 inch extra clearance or 32 feet upon assemble does not
matter,
you just need clearance.
The way you install it is to make a hole in tank. Then there is 2 rubber
gaskets that fit 1 on the outside and 1 on the inside of the tank. They
supply
a aluminium ring, probably 1/8 thick and the width of the gaskets, perhaps
just
a tad wider. Then you rivet the nut plates to the aluminium rings. Using
flush
rivets. The nut plates have an o ring and a acorn style cover over the
bottom.
This seals them to the aluminium, since the bottom is sealed no vapor can
get
in.. thus no vapor can pass through threads and into the cockpit. you were
supposed to split the aluminium and somehow screw it into the tank like you
would a wire wound key ring. Hint from Neville was to cut the aluminium into
2
pieces, one with 3 nut plates, and 1 with 2 nut plates. that is what i did.
i
made the mistake of trying to use some EZ Lube grease to get the rubber and
aluminium stuck. I think the name is EZ Lube, maybe EZ Turn. anyway it is a
real real thick grease for sealing threads and lubricating anything that
lives
in petro. Mistake, although it worked well to position parts, it allowed the
O-ring to squeeze out sideways.
My CPM was out when installing, so i turned things upside down. It would be
a
lot harder if you need to work right side up. If you can figure how to turn
what you have upside down with less than an hour of work, you will save
yourself a lot of hassle.
Since it is such a pain to position stuff, the second time around i made
gaskets from automotive fuel pump diaphragm material, it has a reinforcing
in
it to make it more dimensional stable. I used 2 thickness which are the same
thickness as 1 of the original. I used some automotive weather stripping
contact glue thinned with MEK to hold and position stuff. worked great.
local
aeroplane guys use it in fuel environment applications with good success.
If you cant find any of those sealed nut plates (call the factory) I would
look
hard at machining a wider counter bore on the top face of the sender, then
machine or purchase some screws with wide and flat bottom and cut a gasket
out
of 1 thickness of the diaphragm material. You would use a standard nut
plate, i
would use the nut plates that are crimped, not elastic nylon. Also run a tap
a
little ways into the nut plate to reduce some of the torque needed to
tighten.
do this before you rivet in place, it takes a knack to get it where you want
it. BTW this works in other areas of europa, no need to bust your hands and
replace hardware on an inspection cover, just tap it till you reduce
friction
where it is easy enough to turn and should not back out.
There ya go.
Ron Parigoris
A-265
Message 6
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Dan Bish" <N914RB@earthlink.net>
Hi Mike,
Thanks for the reply. Any chance you have some photos of what you did and
how it came out?
Thanks,
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of mike toft
Subject: Europa-List: Re Fuel Sender
--> Europa-List message posted by: "mike toft" <watervet@mweb.co.za>
Hi
I had to install the fuel sender long after completing the fuselage. What we
did was to drill a pilot hole through the top of the head rest, made up a
spindle to thread through the hole, then attached the correct size rotary
cutter made from a small piece of solid square metal bar with a adjustable
cutter(piece of hack saw blade works), now you can cut through the top of
the cockpit module easily - then follow the instructions for cutting into
the tank with a hot soldering iron - this leaves a rough uneven fit - so
using double sided tape stick a larger than the hole plastic bag to the side
of the tank - this will catch the swarf as you clean up the edges - then
follow the rest of the instructions. I used fishing line as safety device in
case I dropped the gasket or nut plate whilst inserting them into the tank -
'cause trying to retrieve a dropped piece from the bottom is not a lot of
fun -I know believe me.
Mike Toft
ZU CTG Trigear 914 Airmaster 80 Hours and still loving it
Been to the Kalahari Desert and Okavango Swamps 20 hours of phenomenal
flying!!
Message 7
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Dan Bish" <N914RB@earthlink.net>
Thanks for the reply and photos. I can always count on the photos on your
site to help through about any stage I'm working on. Invaluable stuff! I
have a ton of photos to put up as soon as I can get a networking problem
fixed here at home and transfer them. Thanks again,
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of SteveD
Subject: Europa-List: RE: Fuel Sender
--> Europa-List message posted by: "SteveD" <Post2Forum@comcast.net>
Hmmmm.... looking at my CM you might be able to get the sender in without
going thru the top of the head rest but it looks tight....
Steved.
----------------
Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://forum.okhuijsen.org/
Message 8
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw"
>
> My GPS antenna is not just an antenna. It is a receiver. The signal
> on the wire coming out of it is data, not RF.
>
> This equipment now days is pretty much all digital.
I know they can now do that easily with a tiny $20, 12-channel GPS
receiver module in the antenna itself, but question if it's common yet
in aviation units. Which one do you have? My UPS/AT box isn't that
way, and I would theorize the cost and lead time needed for FAA
approval means that many of our devices are necessarily done the
relatively old-fashioned way with mere amplified antenna. But if your
case, good for the builder to know if more modern design. At the
limiting and meager baud rate the satellites do, who knows, even 10
feet of household "zip cord" may work! Else low-loss coax with
shortest run.
> 40% ?????
I weasel-worded as maybe up to 40% loss, but if mounted aft of the
baggage bay bulkhead, my data sheets on low loss cable could put ya
into the 30's easy. UPS/AT thus even allowed for up to 4dB loss, or
63%. I agree with your other point that it's all really moot here, no
matter what fancy circuitry is potted into an antenna mounted too near
a noise source.
Reg,
Fred F.
Message 9
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
> Cheers,
> I agree with Fred. Funnily enough I just read an email about
a month
> ago where one of us had put his antenna on the starboard footwell
ceiling
> in the engine room.......... I think he said it worked well, but
then there's
> a great big metal thing in there. Might be worth trying.
Ignoring the heat abuse to the amplifier inside that antenna, that
sounds like an example of good design, to allow for some installers
not following instructions :-) , though it would seem the engine is
going to block a horizon sat rather easily. My aviation handheld
isn't supposed to work sitting on the right seat of a metal airplane
either, even while keeled over to orient the antenna wrong, but
usually does. The usual difference is that it can take too long to
acquire the sats initially before software gives up. What's probably
happening is the one nearer-to-horizon but really distant satellite it
needs comes through the windows OK, but on the overhead sats -- I'm
sure you know the favorable math involved here -- just suffer a mild
dip in strength that I can see on the screen with the individual
signal bars and current sat location.
Reg,
Fred F.
Message 10
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Davidghillam@aol.com
Thanks everyone for your comments. I knew there is vast amount of knowledge
out there.
The consensus suggests that it is an antenna positional error, as I
suspected. Having removed the panel twice already, once to correct an intercom/radio
connection error and again to deal with a faulty DI (manufacturing fault), I
didn't want to do it a third time, only to discover later that the problem
is due to other causes.
Now that the plane (and I) have had a shakedown period of circuits and local
flying, I will need the GPS to 'expand the envelope', so will have to bite
the bullet and get that panel out again!
David
G-SHSH
Message 11
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Hello Dan
Sorry but we have few pics. Too busy building! We used a dremmil with permagrit
wheel to cut hole and sanded smooth the fiberglass. Used a hot knife to cut hole
in tank, and a soldering iron to make small holes. Still needed to sand, cut
excess and drill a little larger the holes. Vacuumed out the tank, got most, and
then flushed with water, right side up and upside down.
Do Not archive
Ron Parigoris
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: pip-pin - tailplane and wing |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "JR (Bob) Gowing" <gowingjr@acr.net.au>
Here is another to try for inserting and removing pip pins in Elevator and
rear wing attachement -
Take a short length of steel or aluminium 1/2 inch tube which you will have
as a leftover.
Take some strong wire that will go through the hole in the top of the pip
pin and bend a handle on one end and a right - angle bend at the other and
cut it to a length that will be able to just comfortably through the tube.
Put wire through tube and into top of pip pin and you can pull on with and
push on tube to insert and just pull on wire to extract.
J R (Bob) Gowing, UK Kit 327 in Oz (or Australia)
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: pip-pin - tailplane
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein"
<fklein@orcasonline.com>
>
> David,
>
> I am a bit confused at what you describe...any chance that you could post
a
> picture of the pin and the "inserter/extractor"?
>
> Fred
> A194
>
> on 9/17/04 1:52 AM, David Joyce at davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk wrote:
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce"
<davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
> >
> > An alternative arrangement (not my invention - saw it on someone else's
> > plane and use it on mine) is to have a small steel cross bar in the hole
in
> > the pip pin that the ring comes in - made from a piece of the small rat
> > tailed ( or really mouse tailed) files you can buy sets of very cheaply.
You
> > can then insert or extract the pip pins from both tail plane and wing
root
> > with a tool made of hollowed steel with two spiralling grooves cut at
the
> > end so you 'screw it on ' to the pip pin end. You can then manage with
> > surface openings which are about 12mm wide.
>
> David Joyce G-XSDJ
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Rotax Info from CopperState Fly-In |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Good day All,
We are just finishing up at the CopperState Fly-In here south of Phoenix,
Arizona. I sat in on a forum given by a gentleman from Lockwood Aviation. They
are a major US source for Rotax engines, accessories, parts, and service located
in Sebring, Florida.
I'm just going to quickly transfer my notes for those of us that have decided
to go with, or already have, a Rotax in their Europa.
Oil.....biggest cause of concern for Rotax due to the problems caused by the
wrong oil, running the oil too hot or too cold, or mounting the oil container
too high. For the 914, Lockwood recommends Mobil 1 MX4T Synthetic. But if you
use 100LL occasionally, do the oil change every 50 hours. If you use 100LL
exclusively, then do the oil change every 25 hours. The lead in the avgas mixes
in with the oil and slowly covers the oil channels inside the engine until,
like arterial sclerosis, your engine has a heart attack. For the 912 & 912S they
use Penzoil Motorcycle Racing oil 10W40 or 20W50. He says that the Penzoil
still has Phosphorus in their base oil and this prevents the oil from foaming,
turning into a thick mousse, and not to returning to the sump. There are also
many AD's on keeping air out of the oil. Also, oil temp is important to keep
210-230 F range. This can be difficult to do if you set up your oil cooling
system to work well in hot temps, it will cool the oil too much in cooler temps.
And Vice versa. They recommend an oil thermostat to shunt the oil around the
cooler until it gets to temp. When mounting the oil sump, don't place it too high
in relation to the engine or you may get the oil to siphon into the engine
after shutdown. Then when you check your oil it will look low, you add oil, and
now you have too much and it gets dumped out.
The carb flanges that people had trouble with splitting recently. There are
new flanges out that are stronger material and the clamp has a spacer to
prevent the screw from being over tightened. If you have the old style, then tighten
the screw until you have a 7mm gap at the underside between the two sides of
the clamp. This is sufficient, especially when using an airbox. Too tight and
you will either squeeze out the flange and it will pop off or it will split
right at the clamp in short time.
Float Bowl gaskets - If you remove the float bowls and the gasket comes off,
reseat it into the groove in the carb......don't try to sit it on top of the
bowl and press it up into place. It will not seat and probably leak...or worse
it will get damaged.
On new engines.....the carbs are set to full open...if you start it up
without a prop you will reach damage level rev in less than a second.
Idle set screws should not be used to set the idle if you can set it at the
throttle quadrant. Otherwise you could bend the set screw mounts if you
hurriedly pull back on the throttle.
If you run an airbox, run the overflow tubes from the carbs into the airbox
so the float bowls see the same pressure as the carbs. If no airbox, do not
extend the overflow tubes as it may be fine on the ground at idle but the
pressure will change in flight.
With the carbs off and upside down when the float bowl is removed, the float
arm should be horizontal.
Synchronizing the carbs is the means of allowing your engine to run trouble
free until TBO. They should be synchronize every 100 hours unless there is
trouble. Unsynchronized carbs cause excessive gearbox wear. Idle should be set
at
1800 rpm...under 1400 rpm the engine runs bad and will probably shut down.
Synchronizing the carbs can be done with a kit they sell and takes about 45
minutes the first time you try it, then only 20 minutes from then on.
Gearbox - On the 912S, the service should be done at about 500 hours. Sooner
if you don't sync your carbs. The gearbox can be removed by removing the two
bolts that attach the fuel pump and let the pump hang by the hoses. Then remove
all the bolts holding the gearbox. I think that he said that there are two
bolts near the bottom that are a different size. Then with the prop off, use a
rubber mallet to lightly tap the back side of the prop flange to evenly remove
the gearbox. If you clean it up and ship it to them, they do a two day
turnaround (usually) for about $100 plus return shipping.
EGT's - they don't recommend them because you can't do anything about it, the
front ones will always be higher than the rear, and at cruise they hardly
ever agree. Nominal temp runs about 1470'F with a max of 1560'F. This is measured
with their EGT setup that has the probe 36mm from the manifold. If yours is
more then it will run lower, closer it will run hotter.
K&N Carb Filters - Use only the K&N cleaner. If you use solvent or gasoline
you may ruin the filter paper. After cleaning let it air dry then apply the K&N
oil, otherwise the filter will only catch leaves, paper, and bugs. The grit
will pass right through. It should be done about every 200 hours...sooner in
dusty areas and grass strips.
Verify your prop tachs....he has seen most tachs are reading too low. You
should run 5600 rpm for take-off and climbout. But 5800 is max, so make sure your
tack is right.
And last but not least....he says that if you run a slipper clutch, you
should have the new starter motor to prevent damage to the sprag clutch. US
builders.....contact your Rotax dealer because this guy says that the US Rotax
importer is subsidizing the replacement of these new starter motor at 1/2 price.
Questions contact Lockwood. www.lockwood-aviation.com
Mike Duane
A207 XS Conventional gear
Redding, California
Message 14
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Dan Bish" <N914RB@earthlink.net>
Hi Ron,
Think I'll get a flexible shaft for my dremel and take a crack at it. Thanks
again for the help.
Dan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Ronald J.
Parigoris
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Sender
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris"
<rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Hello Dan
Sorry but we have few pics. Too busy building! We used a dremmil with
permagrit
wheel to cut hole and sanded smooth the fiberglass. Used a hot knife to cut
hole
in tank, and a soldering iron to make small holes. Still needed to sand, cut
excess and drill a little larger the holes. Vacuumed out the tank, got most,
and
then flushed with water, right side up and upside down.
Do Not archive
Ron Parigoris
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