---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 10/16/04: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:42 AM - Re: Cabin Heater (Duncan McFadyean) 2. 06:32 AM - Re: Fuses, (Fast, Slow or Fat), CB's or Fusible Links ??? (Paul McAllister) 3. 07:16 AM - Scuffing for grip (Fergus Kyle) 4. 07:16 AM - Turbo, heater et.al. (Dave Anderson) 5. 07:25 AM - Re: Turbo, heater et.al. (MICHAEL PARKIN) 6. 07:48 AM - Routing fuel lines thru the firewall (Fergus Kyle) 7. 10:32 AM - Re: Fuses, (Fast, Slow or Fat), CB's or Fusible Links ??? (Cliff Shaw) 8. 01:15 PM - Re: Cabin Heater (William Mills) 9. 02:36 PM - Re: Cabin Heater (RMRRick@aol.com) 10. 04:05 PM - Re: Turbo, heater et.al. (Jim Brown) 11. 06:35 PM - Re: Fuses, (Fast, Slow or Fat), CB's or Fusible Links ??? (Fred Fillinger) 12. 08:22 PM - Re: Fuses, (Fast, Slow or Fat), CB's or Fusible Links ??? (SteveD) 13. 08:36 PM - Thank you for your email (Dan Viet Newspaper) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:42:48 AM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cabin Heater --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" William, This is not a good idea unless you enjoy practicing your stainless welding skills every weekend; the system will crack if denied the functioning of its slip joints. Lubricating with copperslip often results in some partial coking-up of the joint as the copper slip burns off. The smoke from the burning copperslip also provides an indication of how much is getting into the cockpit.. Shrinking down the female part of he slip joint may help if it is particularly loose. However, the pipes aren't seamless or particularly round, so a perfect joint is not easy to achieve. Another job this winter?! Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Mills" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cabin Heater > --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" > > Hi All, > Has anyone tried sealing the joints in the exhaust manifold pipes to reduce > the amount of CO escaping into the engine bay? There is evidence that a > substantial amount of exhaust gas escapes from these joints. > Regards, > William > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Paul McAllister" > To: > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cabin Heater > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" > > > > > Hi All, > > > > My understanding from reading Dave Anderson's post a few months ago was > that > > he took his air from behind the oil / water heaters as decribed by a few > > others in this posting and he got a significant amount of CO. Dave, if > your > > readig this can you chime in here. > > > > Paul > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:32:11 AM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuses, (Fast, Slow or Fat), CB's or Fusible Links ??? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Kingsley, I used cartridge fuses but if I was to do it again I would make my own fusible links. You can down load this off electric Bob's web site and the parts can be purchased from B&C. If you wanted to purchase what you need closer to home you will need to find a supplier for fiberglass sleeve, you should already have everything else. Paul ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:03 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Europa-List: Scuffing for grip --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" Cheers, On the above subject, I just remembered someone advising me that to scuff for max retention, Boeing instructed that the ideal test was whether the scuffed surface would hold a lamina of water, rather than have it run off or consolidate. It delays the application to wait for drying, but I thought it might bear repeating? Comments invited. Ferg A064 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:16:14 AM PST US From: "Dave Anderson" Subject: Europa-List: Turbo, heater et.al. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dave Anderson" This might be good along with the discussion of the heater. I installed my heater idea which was to pull heat from behind the radiators. I used the same logic that Kevin did about the lack of CO - fresh air streaming down that duct, etc. On the way to OSH, it was providing heat which took the edge off the cold air up there at 17,500 feet. I have a cowl flap that can keep my temps up and that helps with the heat. The big problem was CO. I have an electronic CO detector and it indicated CO in the cockpit along with the thing that changes color eventually. In-flight troubleshooting led to the heater. A little duct tape and the CO problem was solved. Taking a closer look at it, I most certainly have a leak in the area of my turbo charger. I don't remember seeing the evidence of an exhaust leak there in the early days of the engine, but now there is no doubt. I cannot find anything in the way of a crack in the exhaust. There is staining all over the area of the turbo charger. I have noticed that the flange I put on the duct to tap into that warm air does not make a good seal and since the pressure on the cockpit is lower than the cowl, that would allow the exhaust leak to make its way into the heater duct and up into the cockpit. I can check this theory by making a gasket of some sort and seal that area off. If it eliminates the CO with the heater on (I got the CO with the heater on or off), that would support the theory. That leaves the issue of the turbo. I have heard form others that they have the staining on the engine mount on the turbo side of the engine. Is this a common situation? I am considering pulling the turbo when the weather gets bad and start to look into other things that will down the airplane - changing to the new water-less coolant for example. What have others found in this area. I am hoping that this solves the CO problem, since the heater is a very simple mod that doesn't unlove the coolant and doesn't add very much weight. Thanks. Dave A227 Mini U2 260 hours TT 255 hours engine time (how many short wing airplanes can make this claim?) ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:25:55 AM PST US From: "MICHAEL PARKIN" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Turbo, heater et.al. --> Europa-List message posted by: "MICHAEL PARKIN" "In-flight troubleshooting led to the heater. A little duct tape and the CO problem was solved." Dave, Could you be a little more specific on the position of the problem. Where did you put the tape? Am I correct in assuming that the CO problem was problem of the installation/turbo fault, rather than a fundamental problem in the heater design. regards, Mike ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:48:02 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Europa-List: Routing fuel lines thru the firewall --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" Simon, I used steel 90deg bulkhead fittings [AN parts] for the return fuel line, and propose the same for fuel delivery line. I hope the steel will be more resistant over time under engine fire conditions.............. Ferg A064 ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:32:29 AM PST US From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuses, (Fast, Slow or Fat), CB's or Fusible Links ??? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" Kingsley I ran across this information a while back. http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/docs/aircraftwiring.doc I would recommend you read it and reconsider the "old fashion" wiring plan you are considering. The Rotax 912 is so simple and straight foreword there is no good reason to make it too complicated. The Europa wiring diagram is very well thought out. Your are not building an airliner. Just my advice, worth what you paid (at least that much) :) Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 Flying -- Could not get close enough to Mt. St Helens to see much. TV had much better pictures. > I have a plain vanilla 912 Engine. > > I wish to incorporate OV protection and a Battery Contactor and some other > ideas of Bob Nuckolls so I have decided to adopt the Z-16 diagram in the > Aeroelectric Connection. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:15:34 PM PST US From: "William Mills" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cabin Heater --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" Thanks for the reply, Duncan. I was thinking in terms of something simple like an RTV silicone fillet round the joints. Regards, William Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cabin Heater > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" > > William, > This is not a good idea unless you enjoy practicing your stainless welding > skills every weekend; the system will crack if denied the functioning of its > slip joints. Lubricating with copperslip often results in some partial > coking-up of the joint as the copper slip burns off. The smoke from the > burning copperslip also provides an indication of how much is getting into > the cockpit.. > > Shrinking down the female part of he slip joint may help if it is > particularly loose. However, the pipes aren't seamless or particularly > round, so a perfect joint is not easy to achieve. > Another job this winter?! > > Duncan McF. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "William Mills" > To: > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cabin Heater > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" > > > > > Hi All, > > Has anyone tried sealing the joints in the exhaust manifold pipes to > reduce > > the amount of CO escaping into the engine bay? There is evidence that a > > substantial amount of exhaust gas escapes from these joints. > > Regards, > > William > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Paul McAllister" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cabin Heater > > > > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" > > > > > > > > Hi All, > > > > > > My understanding from reading Dave Anderson's post a few months ago was > > that > > > he took his air from behind the oil / water heaters as decribed by a few > > > others in this posting and he got a significant amount of CO. Dave, if > > your > > > readig this can you chime in here. > > > > > > Paul > > > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:36:43 PM PST US From: RMRRick@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Cabin Heater --> Europa-List message posted by: RMRRick@aol.com Hi Looks 70% flyable on the 18 hr TAF. Shall I ring you tomorrow AM? Regards Rick ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 04:05:45 PM PST US From: Jim Brown Subject: Re: Europa-List: Turbo, heater et.al. --> Europa-List message posted by: Jim Brown Dave; Just this past week I was doing some maintenance and took a hard look at the muffler and turbo. There is no residue of exhaust gases in the area of the turbo and the muffler. I suspect that you have a gasket or something that is leaking. Also have you looked into the possibility that the tab in the tunnel, that is bent down to supply cold air to the turbo housing, may be somehow leaking the CO into the cockpit.. Maybe a reversal of air flow around the turbo????????? JIM BROWN Dave Anderson wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dave Anderson" > > This might be good along with the discussion of the heater. > > I installed my heater idea which was to pull heat from behind the radiators. I used the same logic that Kevin did about the lack of CO - fresh air streaming down that duct, etc. On the way to OSH, it was providing heat which took the edge off the cold air up there at 17,500 feet. I have a cowl flap that can keep my temps up and that helps with the heat. The big problem was CO. I have an electronic CO detector and it indicated CO in the cockpit along with the thing that changes color eventually. In-flight troubleshooting led to the heater. A little duct tape and the CO problem was solved. > > Taking a closer look at it, I most certainly have a leak in the area of my turbo charger. I don't remember seeing the evidence of an exhaust leak there in the early days of the engine, but now there is no doubt. I cannot find anything in the way of a crack in the exhaust. There is staining all over the area of the turbo charger. I have noticed that the flange I put on the duct to tap into that warm air does not make a good seal and since the pressure on the cockpit is lower than the cowl, that would allow the exhaust leak to make its way into the heater duct and up into the cockpit. I can check this theory by making a gasket of some sort and seal that area off. If it eliminates the CO with the heater on (I got the CO with the heater on or off), that would support the theory. > > That leaves the issue of the turbo. I have heard form others that they have the staining on the engine mount on the turbo side of the engine. Is this a common situation? I am considering pulling the turbo when the weather gets bad and start to look into other things that will down the airplane - changing to the new water-less coolant for example. > > What have others found in this area. I am hoping that this solves the CO problem, since the heater is a very simple mod that doesn't unlove the coolant and doesn't add very much weight. > > Thanks. > > Dave > A227 > Mini U2 > 260 hours TT > 255 hours engine time (how many short wing airplanes can make this claim?) > ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 06:35:15 PM PST US From: "Fred Fillinger" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuses, (Fast, Slow or Fat), CB's or Fusible Links ??? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" Cliff Shaw wrote: > > I ran across this information a while back. I would recommend > you read it and reconsider the "old fashion" wiring plan you > are considering. > http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/docs/aircraftwiring.doc Not bad, but I suggest referring also to Bob Nuckolls' review of it. It has some errors and bad advice, he says: http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/Aircraft_Wiring_For_Smart_People_Reviewed.pdf Reg, Fred F. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:41 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Re: Fuses, (Fast, Slow or Fat), CB's or Fusible Links ??? From: "SteveD" 2.60 REPLY_TO_EMPTY Reply-To: is empty --> Europa-List message posted by: "SteveD" Then we can read the critique of the review: : ) http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/discus/messages/2/806.html Steved. ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://forum.okhuijsen.org/ ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 08:36:59 PM PST US From: "Dan Viet Newspaper" Subject: Europa-List: Thank you for your email --> Europa-List message posted by: "Dan Viet Newspaper" Thank you, We have received your email. It will be attended to as soon as we possibly can. Have a nice day! Cam on ban, Chung toi da nhan duoc email cua ban. Chung toi se hoi dap trong thoi gian som nhat. Chuc ban mot ngay vui ve. Tuan bao Dan Viet. (This is an auto reply message)