Europa-List Digest Archive

Tue 10/19/04


Total Messages Posted: 15



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:33 AM - Re: Nextel Spray Suede (David Joyce)
     2. 01:00 AM - Re: Fuses, (Fast, Slow or Fat), CB's or Fusible Links ??? (Kingsley Hurst)
     3. 02:05 AM - Re: Nextel Spray Suede  ()
     4. 03:33 AM - Aviation Definitions (Nigel Graham)
     5. 04:50 AM - MJKTuck@cs.com  (HelgeandGabby@aol.com)
     6. 12:47 PM - Re: Fuses, (Fast, Slow or Fat), CB's or Fusible Links ??? (Tony Krzyzewski)
     7. 12:47 PM - Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 10/16/04 (Duncan McFadyean)
     8. 12:59 PM - Re: Where to buy a Floscan (Duncan McFadyean)
     9. 01:30 PM - Re: Fuses, (Fast, Slow or Fat), CB's or Fusible Links ??? (Duncan McFadyean)
    10. 02:44 PM - Nextel  (Graham Singleton)
    11. 03:58 PM - Re: Nextel  (Chuck Popenoe)
    12. 04:54 PM - Re: Fuses, (Fast, Slow or Fat), CB's or Fusible Links ??? (Kingsley Hurst)
    13. 05:25 PM - Re: Where to buy a Floscan (Tony Renshaw)
    14. 05:40 PM - Attaching the doors (Fergus Kyle)
    15. 10:29 PM - Re: Nextel Spray Suede  (Gerry Holland)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:33:13 AM PST US
    From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
    Subject: Re: Nextel Spray Suede
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk> Peter, Nextel gives an excellent finish which is very durable. My understanding is that it is highly toxic and should be used only with proper breathing gear. Also I think it was only sold to commercial outlets, but no doubt you could get round that. It sprayed on easily enough in the hands of my local expert. Regards, David Joyce G-XSDJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Rees" <peter.rees05@ntlworld.com> Subject: Europa-List: Nextel Spray Suede > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" <peter.rees05@ntlworld.com> > > Has anyone used the above product on their aeroplane - If so, is it easy stuff to use? The panel on our classic needs some re-work so I'm going to buy a set of blank panels from Europa and cut the holes where we want them. The instrument pod is finished in Nextel so, it would be nice to spray the new panel to match (as long as its reasonably straight forward). > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > Doctors.net.uk e-mail protects you from viruses and unsolicited messages > ________________________________________________________________________ > >


    Message 2


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    Time: 01:00:40 AM PST US
    From: "Kingsley Hurst" <hurstkr@growzone.com.au>
    Subject: Fuses, (Fast, Slow or Fat), CB's or Fusible Links ???
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <hurstkr@growzone.com.au> Michael Parking wrote : > I used the Maxifuse 1299(Part No 219-3564) with its' fuseholder (Part No > 250-6285) both from RS Components. Michael, Many thanks for this info. Have found the Maxifuse okay on the Australian RS-Components website but unfortunately can't find any fuseholder with the Part No 250-6285. Could you please confirm the 250-6285 Part No please Mike. Thanks again, at least I'm now half way there ! Regards Kingsley


    Message 3


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    Time: 02:05:02 AM PST US
    From: <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: Nextel Spray Suede
    --> Europa-List message posted by: <danny@mcwalterscafe.co.uk> Peter, I took my panel to Matthew, Russell Great Edstone, Kirkbymoorside. He did a great job and reasonably priced. choice of 26 colours. Danny Shepherd ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Rees" <peter.rees05@ntlworld.com> Subject: Europa-List: Nextel Spray Suede > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" <peter.rees05@ntlworld.com> > > Has anyone used the above product on their aeroplane - If so, is it easy stuff to use? The panel on our classic needs some re-work so I'm going to buy a set of blank panels from Europa and cut the holes where we want them. The instrument pod is finished in Nextel so, it would be nice to spray the new panel to match (as long as its reasonably straight forward). > >


    Message 4


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    Time: 03:33:04 AM PST US
    From: "Nigel Graham" <nigel_graham@btclick.com>
    Subject: Aviation Definitions
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Graham" <nigel_graham@btclick.com> Hi guys, It's been too long since somebody posted some frivolity. Thanks and credit to Andy Faulkner. Airspeed - An aircraft's speed. (Deduct 25% when listening to a homebuilder). Bank - The people who own most of a pilot's car. Carburettor Icing - A phenomenon reported by pilots just after they run out of fuel. Cone of Confusion - An area about the size of Hampshire located near the final approach beacon at airport. Crab - A VFR instructor's attitude on an IFR day. Destination - Geographical location 30 minutes beyond the pilot's bladder saturation point. Engine Failure - A condition that occurs when all fuel tanks mysteriously become filled with low-octane air. Firewall - Section of the aircraft specifically designed to funnel heat and smoke into the cockpit. Flight - FollowingFormation flying Glide Distance - Half the distance from an airplane to the nearest emergency landing field. Hobbs - An instrument which creates an emergency situation should it fail during dual instruction. Hydroplane - An aircraft designed to land long on a short wet runway. IFR - A method of flying by needle and horoscope. Lean Mixture - Non-alcoholic beer. Nanosecond - The time delay between the low fuel warning light coming on and the onset of carburettor icing. Parachutes - The two 'chutes in a Stearman. Parasitic Drag - A pilot who bums a ride and then complains about the service. Range - Usually about three miles short of the destination. Rich Mixture - What you order at another pilots promotion party. Roger - Used when you're not too sure what else to say on the radio. Spoilers - CAA or FAA inspectors. Stall - Technique used to explain to the bank why your car payment is late. Turn and Bank Indicator - An instrument largely ignored by pilots. Useful Load - Volumetric capacity of the aircraft, disregarding weight. ....more at: http://www.andyfaulkner.fsnet.co.uk/aviation/humour/aviation_humour.htm Cheers Nigel


    Message 5


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    Time: 04:50:44 AM PST US
    From: HelgeandGabby@aol.com
    Subject: MJKTuck@cs.com
    BODY:, Information@matronics.com, on@matronics.com, mortgages@matronics.com --> Europa-List message posted by: HelgeandGabby@aol.com Hi Martin, I see from the Europa-List Digest that you consider replacing your Terra comm ! I was builder nu 72 and compleated my Europa in 97. I made the same mistake as yourself by installing Terra equipment - nothing but problems. The transponder is now working ok after extensive/costly repair in the UK. However, the Terra comm is still a problem. I have already replaced the unit with a second-hand one, but to no use. I am at the moment coping with a hand held unit -not very satisfactory. Both units ( TX and TRT) are mounted in a dual tray. Replacing either of the units is a major job to the main panel for which I am not too keen. I might be interested in buying your Terra comm if it is still working OK and it does not mean taking out a second mortgage!!! Regards Helge G-BWYD


    Message 6


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    Time: 12:47:28 PM PST US
    Subject: Fuses, (Fast, Slow or Fat), CB's or Fusible Links ???
    From: "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz> >>> Many thanks for this info. Have found the Maxifuse okay on the Australian RS-Components website but unfortunately can't find any fuseholder with the Part No 250-6285. >>> Could you please confirm the 250-6285 Part No please Mike. Or try Farnell... 30A Fuse 302-9270 Fuseholder 302-9244 Fuseholder Cover 302-9256 They had them in stock on Monday in Australia when I ordered some for Gavin Lee Regards Tony


    Message 7


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    Time: 12:47:28 PM PST US
    From: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: Europa-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 10/16/04
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> No. But if you work out the approx possible drag reduction it doesn't amount to much. A few percent? Which would give a few percent extra mph. Probably not easily measured, but when compounded by lots of other drag reduction efforts, it all adds up. My Europa isn't particularly fast (143knts max. S&L) but does seem to use less fuel than many. No logic there. Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 10/16/04 > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net> > > Duncan, > > Do you have any before and after speed numbers ? > > Paul > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> > To: <europa-list@matronics.com> > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 10/16/04 > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" > <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> > > > > My "XS" inlet has been modified to half the CSA of the original XS with > > dimension of 8" x 1 3/4". This is similar to the area of the Ban-bi. Seems > > to work OK (in fact it tends to overcool). > > > > Duncan McF. >


    Message 8


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    Time: 12:59:00 PM PST US
    From: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: Where to buy a Floscan
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> The failure mode of the diaphragm in the 264 damped flow sensor needs to be considered before fitting. i.e. if it develops a leak then fuel and fuel pressure will be lost. I suppose the vent for the non-fuel side of the damper could be connected to a closed vessel. Duncan McF. PS Does Broken Leg Dave really exist; I never heard of anyone getting a response from him. Caveat emptor. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan de Jong (by way of Matt Dralle <nospam@matronics.com>)" <jan.de.jong@xs4all.nl> Subject: Europa-List: Where to buy a Floscan > --> Europa-List message posted by: Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong@xs4all.nl> (by way of Matt Dralle <nospam@matronics.com>) > > I am not there yet but I happened to come across the following that may be > of interest to someone: > > FLOSCAN 264 SENSOR ONLY > new number 201B-9 > ALL other approved inboard & I/O engines rated from 50 to 350 hp. > Also fits all Evinrude Ficht and Mercury Optimax outboard engines from 90 > hp to 250 hp. > Also recommended for all carbureted and EFI outboards rated below 150 hp. > See Gas Models section for more details. > 11964 > Sale $128.92 > at: > http://www.brokenlegdave.com/Manufacture/FloScan/floscan_home.htm > > and for $125.00 > at: > http://www.scubasteve.biz/store/manufacturers/floscan/floscan.htm > > and less expensive still: > > FLOSCAN 231 SENSOR ONLY > ALL carbureted and EFI outboard engines rated from 150 hp and above. > 11963 > Sale $99 > at the same two places. > > According to > http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/pdf/efis_%20one_installation_guide_216h. pdf > the 201B is good to 28 gals/hr > the 231 is good to 40 gals/hr > > According to floscan the 264 has integrated damping > > The 264 is probably better when reciprocating type pumps are involved > The 231 may well be ok with the 914 fuel pumps. > > Jan de Jong > #461, > getting towards the end of the blue bits, > looking somewhat too far ahead. > >


    Message 9


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    Time: 01:30:03 PM PST US
    From: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: Fuses, (Fast, Slow or Fat), CB's or Fusible Links ???
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> I used the FH560 fuse shown towards the bottom of the page at: http://www.vehicle-wiring-products.co.uk/VWPweb2000/fuse-1/fuse-1.html This has bolt-on ring terminals and takes a bolt-in strip fuse, available in a variety of sizes. The plastic moulding has survived unscathed forward of the firewall. Don't know where you would get one in Oz. Probably made in Taiwan! Downside of CBs is a higher voltage drop than a fuse, which can be significant in some circuits (eg some configurations of alternator field current). Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kingsley Hurst" <hurstkr@growzone.com.au> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuses, (Fast, Slow or Fat), CB's or Fusible Links ??? > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <hurstkr@growzone.com.au> > > Cliff, > > Apologies for being so long winded in replying. My comments embedded below. > > > I ran across this information a while back. > > http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/docs/aircraftwiring.doc > > I would recommend you read it and reconsider the "old fashion" wiring plan > > you are considering. > > I have read this document and also seriously considered the Exp Bus quite > some time back. I am not vehemently opposed to the idea but there were a > few reasons I decided not to go that way not the least of which was that if > it ever died for some reason, I would have to return it to the US and have > nothing in the meantime. Not to mention the cost of sending it back. I > therefore feel more comfortable doing it the 'old fashioned' way because if > anything goes wrong, I will hopefully be able to fix it. > > > The Rotax 912 is so simple and straight foreword there > > is no good reason to make it too complicated. The Europa wiring diagram is > > very well thought out. > > True Cliff. My main concern with the Europa circuit diagram was that it had > no battery contactor and in the event of the starter contactor remaining > closed for any reason, there was no way to stop the propeller flying around > until the battery was flat. I also learned of the recommended Europa Club > mod for the Crowbar OV protection and when I read the Aeroelectric > Connection, I found that Figure Z-16 was essentially the same as the Europa > Circuit and included the battery contactor and OV module. Hence my decision > to adopt it. > > Confession. To save confusion for anybody familiar with Z-16 in my original > post, I said I wanted a fuse for the feed to the Endurance Bus. Truth is, I > am not having an Endurance Bus and I want the fuse to feed the Main Bus. I > am substituting a small Battery Bus in lieu of the Endurance Bus. > > The basic Z-16 circuit with my small modification is not rocket science > mate. > > > Your are not building an airliner. > > Not so sure about this Cliff. With the amount of time I have spent on it > now I'm starting to wonder ! > > > Just my advice, worth what you paid (at least that much) :) > > Yes Cliff, happy to say I can afford what I paid too ! Much appreciated. > > > Now can somebody tell me what sort of fuse or CB to use please ? Hasn't > anybody else used fuses in the main power distribution as per the Europa > diagram ? > > Cheers > Kingsley > Mono Classic (Classic Mono?) 281 in Oz. > > > PS Within 6 hours of posting my plea, I discovered an article by Bob > Nuckolls that explained the difference between Current Limiters and Fat > Fuses. Makes me feel better now I realise there must have been others > confused too about these devices. > http://www.aeroelectric.com/articles/anl/anlvsjjs.html > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 02:44:52 PM PST US
    From: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
    Subject: Nextel
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk> At 23:56 18/10/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Has anyone used the above product on their aeroplane - If so, is it easy stuff >to use? The panel on our classic needs some re-work so I'm going to buy a set >of blank panels from Europa and cut the holes where we want them. The >instrument >pod is finished in Nextel so, it would be nice to spray the new panel to match >(as long as its reasonably straight forward). Nextel is a very specialized paint, needs its own primer and although it looks very nice when new, tends to pick up dirt and dust easier than other finishes. You cannot buy less than a 1 liter kit or both primer and finish. I would prefer to black anodize the aluminium parts, that looks equaly smart IMHO graham


    Message 11


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    Time: 03:58:01 PM PST US
    From: "Chuck Popenoe" <cpops@verizon.net>
    Subject: Nextel
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Chuck Popenoe" <cpops@verizon.net> I agree with Graham--I have used Nextel and would never use it on a panel. It looks great when fresh, but you don't want to touch it, because it will pick up fingerprints and smudges with the greatest of ease! Doesn't clean up easily, either. I have done my Avid panel in plain old matt finish black, which is much superior in practicality to Nextel. Pops A036 -- On hold at the present -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham Singleton Subject: Europa-List: Nextel --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton --> <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk> At 23:56 18/10/2004 -0700, you wrote: >Has anyone used the above product on their aeroplane - If so, is it >easy stuff to use? The panel on our classic needs some re-work so I'm >going to buy a set of blank panels from Europa and cut the holes where >we want them. The instrument pod is finished in Nextel so, it would be >nice to spray the new panel to match (as long as its reasonably >straight forward). Nextel is a very specialized paint, needs its own primer and although it looks very nice when new, tends to pick up dirt and dust easier than other finishes. You cannot buy less than a 1 liter kit or both primer and finish. I would prefer to black anodize the aluminium parts, that looks equaly smart IMHO graham advertising on the Matronics Forums.


    Message 12


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    Time: 04:54:45 PM PST US
    From: "Kingsley Hurst" <hurstkr@growzone.com.au>
    Subject: Fuses, (Fast, Slow or Fat), CB's or Fusible Links ???
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <hurstkr@growzone.com.au> Paul, Michael, Tony and Duncan Up to the 'current' moment, I have considered many alternatives. Had you good folk not lowered my 'resistance' to some of these, I fear I was reaching the point where a sudden 'inrush' may have caused me to blow my 'fuse'. This could have had the 'potential' to ruin my day so I therefore want to thank you for your valued assistance and hope you all have the 'capacity' to accept my 'inductance' into the Europa fraternity. Seriously, much appreciated thanks men. Kingsley Do not archive


    Message 13


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    Time: 05:25:31 PM PST US
    From: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au>
    Subject: Re: Where to buy a Floscan
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au> Gidday, I have recently purchased a Floscan from BrokenLeg Dave. He advertises a Floscan 264 with built in dampening, but actually doesn't sell it. Why? Well it isn't made anymore. (Source, Floscan) The model supplied 201 B-9, is the model used by the EIS manufacturers, which is important because whatever you buy and install needs to receive a signal and then calibrate it into a fuel flow. As such it is imperative to get a model that is compatible with the EIS system you intend purchasing. I have been in contact with Dynon to attempt to ensure that their new EIS is capable of being connected to our Europa Capacitance gauges, and I should do the same about these Floscans too. From Dave by the way, mine came with a circular dampening device and T for plumbing, the model stamped on the Floscan being 20B. I am assured it is the 201 B-9, but I wish the model was stamped in full on it so that I knew definitively. Quote: "The 264 sensor did have an internal pulsation damper. The 20B sensor, which is the entire assembly you pictured, uses a 201B sensor which does not have that internal damper, thus the external damper that gets attached to the outlet." I have contact details at Floscan but would prefer not to circulate them. If anyone wants to know more about Floscans, maybe I can be of assistance in mediating the information, and save annoying people. They appear a bit touchy, so best not to annoy them and not get the answers we need. 10/19/2004, you wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: Jan de Jong <jan.de.jong@xs4all.nl> (by >way of Matt Dralle <nospam@matronics.com>) > >I am not there yet but I happened to come across the following that may be >of interest to someone: > >FLOSCAN 264 SENSOR ONLY >new number 201B-9 >ALL other approved inboard & I/O engines rated from 50 to 350 hp. >Also fits all Evinrude Ficht and Mercury Optimax outboard engines from 90 >hp to 250 hp. >Also recommended for all carbureted and EFI outboards rated below 150 hp. >See Gas Models section for more details. >11964 >Sale $128.92 >at: >http://www.brokenlegdave.com/Manufacture/FloScan/floscan_home.htm > >and for $125.00 >at: >http://www.scubasteve.biz/store/manufacturers/floscan/floscan.htm > >and less expensive still: > >FLOSCAN 231 SENSOR ONLY >ALL carbureted and EFI outboard engines rated from 150 hp and above. >11963 >Sale $99 >at the same two places. > >According to >http://www.bluemountainavionics.com/pdf/efis_%20one_installation_guide_216h.pdf >the 201B is good to 28 gals/hr >the 231 is good to 40 gals/hr > >According to floscan the 264 has integrated damping > >The 264 is probably better when reciprocating type pumps are involved >The 231 may well be ok with the 914 fuel pumps. > >Jan de Jong >#461, >getting towards the end of the blue bits, >looking somewhat too far ahead. > > Reg Tony Renshaw Sydney Australia Classic 236 B.B. Taildragger Currently working on Rudder Pedals, In but tight so more work to go on them. Tail, Wings, Ailerons, Flaps Complete and Connected Lower Fuse in Jig, Tail Torque Tube installed with temporary timber dowels. Mass Balance assembly installed and deflections sorted Roof Panel between doors completed. Photos at: http://forum.okhuijsen.org/TonyR Intended Engine: 912S CS prop (model undecided) Instrumentation: Garmin 296 Colour GPS beneath an electronic Artificial Horizon, one that I can trust for short periods IMC, to get out of a sticky situation


    Message 14


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    Time: 05:40:15 PM PST US
    From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
    Subject: Attaching the doors
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca> Another cry for help.............. In attempting to attach the doors, I read that the #10 hardware which holds the hinges requires that the upper surface to the 'tang' which holds the hinge be inset for enough depth to contain the MS21042 nut. This nut is 1/4inch thick, but the rear tang is only 5/16inch thick. Therefore the remaining tang would be too thin and flimsy to withstain door forces. (the front tang is thicker but still questionable). Am I the exception or has this been hashed over before [couldn't find a suitable topic in the archives]? What has been your experience? Cheers, Ferg A064


    Message 15


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    Time: 10:29:52 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Nextel Spray Suede
    From: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com> It gives a wonderful finish but...... Easily knocked or scratched if removing Panel, especially prior to shake down and first flight. Seems to go almost mouldy with continued touching. It's one of those textures that people love to touch. They think its suede. Strongly advise not to have inside of doors done as this really takes a hammering and goes a really manky texture with repeated exposure to hand contact. Looks great and lasts when just used on front surface of panel. The panel coming needs something more durable. The Panels done in leather or paint seem to be more durable. Yes.... Mine is done in dark grey Nextel! and shows signs of stress. It's not the only thing.... Regards Gerry




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