Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:42 AM - Re: Attaching the doors (Brian Davies)
2. 04:45 AM - Re: Attaching the doors (Kingsley Hurst)
3. 09:36 AM - Finger brake lever length (Michael Grass)
4. 10:23 AM - Re:Borrowing a monowheel trailer (Michael Dolphin)
5. 10:59 AM - Re: Finger brake lever length (John & Amy Eckel)
6. 12:44 PM - anodizing [was: Nextel] (Rowland Carson)
7. 01:19 PM - Re: Nextel (Duncan McFadyean)
8. 01:24 PM - Re: Nextel (Duncan McFadyean)
9. 01:24 PM - Re: anodizing [was: Nextel] (Tony Krzyzewski)
10. 01:28 PM - Re: anodizing [was: Nextel] (Chuck Popenoe)
11. 04:29 PM - Lexan v. Plexiglas (Fred R. Klein)
12. 05:19 PM - Re: Nextel (ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk)
13. 05:22 PM - Re: Lexan v. Plexiglas (Rob Housman)
14. 05:36 PM - Re: Lexan v. Plexiglas ()
15. 06:03 PM - Re: Lexan v. Plexiglas (Paul McAllister)
16. 06:05 PM - Re: Nextel (Paul McAllister)
17. 07:20 PM - Re: Lexan v. Plexiglas (Fred R. Klein)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Attaching the doors |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies" <bdavies@dircon.co.uk>
Hi Ferg,
I had the same issue but decided it was OK because the hinge is bonded to
the tang. The load is spread across more than just the area of the nut.
Brian Davies kit 454
Aircraft being painted
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Subject: Europa-List: Attaching the doors
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
>
> Another cry for help..............
> In attempting to attach the doors, I read that the #10 hardware which
holds
> the hinges requires that the upper surface to the 'tang' which holds the
> hinge be inset for enough depth to contain the MS21042 nut. This nut is
> 1/4inch thick, but the rear tang is only 5/16inch thick. Therefore the
> remaining tang would be too thin and flimsy to withstain door forces. (the
> front tang is thicker but still questionable).
> Am I the exception or has this been hashed over before [couldn't
> find a suitable topic in the archives]?
> What has been your experience?
> Cheers,
> Ferg A064
>
>
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Attaching the doors |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <hurstkr@growzone.com.au>
> This nut is 1/4inch thick, but the rear tang is only 5/16inch thick.
Therefore the
> remaining tang would be too thin and flimsy to withstain door forces. (the
> front tang is thicker but still questionable). . . . . . . .
> What has been your experience?
Ferg,
I agree with Brian about the bonding surface area.
I had very little meat left too on a couple of the holes. Think I used a
spade bit and drilled the holes a little at a time until nut was just flush.
Make sure you give the gel coat and bonding surface of the hinges a good
scuff sanding.
. . . . don't worry, be happy !
Kingsley
Message 3
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| Subject: | Finger brake lever length |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Michael Grass" <M.Grass@comcast.net>
Group,
I would like to find out what length Europa has chosen for the finger brake levers
from mod 65. If somebody would be so kind to give me the dimensions from
the right lever from center bottom hole to the center of the hole at the actuator
and from the bottom hole to the hole for the handle that would be great. I
hope to fabricate the levers only once ;<)
Thanks
Michael Grass
Trigear A266
Just about to be ready to bond in the cockpit module.
Wings not yet started
Message 4
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| Subject: | RE:Borrowing a monowheel trailer |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Michael Dolphin" <mikedolphin978@hotmail.com>
Chaps & Chapesses,
I've got a problem, I need to get my Mono (original tailwheel) Europa from
Newark to Redhill in the next few days. Weather looks really awful for the
forseeable future..... So would anyone in the area be willing to lend me a
trailer for a day (for a small consideration) I would be really grateful.
I can be contacted here or on 07919 388492
Thanks Guys,
Mike
http://toolbar.msn.co.uk/
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Finger brake lever length |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel" <eckel1@comcast.net>
Michael,
I'm not sure where I got the dimensions, but here goes.
The spacing from the bottom hole to the actuator is 1.25 inches.
This dimension is easy to check.
From the bottom hole to the top hole is 7.25 inches.
I used 1/8 X 1 Al.
They look like the ones in the Mod.
John, A230
----- Original Message -----
From: "Michael Grass" <M.Grass@comcast.net>
Subject: Europa-List: Finger brake lever length
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Michael Grass" <M.Grass@comcast.net>
>
> Group,
>
> I would like to find out what length Europa has chosen for the finger
brake levers from mod 65. If somebody would be so kind to give me the
dimensions from the right lever from center bottom hole to the center of the
hole at the actuator and from the bottom hole to the hole for the handle
that would be great. I hope to fabricate the levers only once ;<)
>
> Thanks
>
> Michael Grass
> Trigear A266
> Just about to be ready to bond in the cockpit module.
> Wings not yet started
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | anodizing [was: Nextel] |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
At 2004-10-19 22:44 +0100 Graham Singleton wrote:
>I would prefer to black anodize the aluminium parts, that looks equaly
>smart IMHO
Graham - I agree on the smart appearance; where can you get it done
cheap? I was quoted UK pounds 60.00 for my 180mm x 265mm piece of ali
with 6 big holes occupying the great majority of its area. I think I
may just spray it myself if I can't do much better than that price -
then if it gets scratched again it won't cost much to re-spray.
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson PFA #16532 <http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/>
| 730 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net>
Message 7
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
<<Nextel is a very specialized paint, needs its own primer>>
I've found that a primer compatible with isocyanate based paints work OK.
I've also sprayed Nextel wet-on-wet with ordinary gloss 2-pack isocyanate as
the undercoat.
The bond is superb and is hard to scrap off with a knife.
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Graham Singleton" <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
Subject: Europa-List: Nextel
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton
<graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
>
> At 23:56 18/10/2004 -0700, you wrote:
> >Has anyone used the above product on their aeroplane - If so, is it easy
stuff
> >to use? The panel on our classic needs some re-work so I'm going to buy a
set
> >of blank panels from Europa and cut the holes where we want them. The
> >instrument
> >pod is finished in Nextel so, it would be nice to spray the new panel to
match
> >(as long as its reasonably straight forward).
>
> Nextel is a very specialized paint, needs its own primer and although it
> looks very nice when new, tends to pick up dirt and dust easier than
other
> finishes. You cannot buy less than a 1 liter kit or both primer and
finish.
> I would prefer to black anodize the aluminium parts, that looks equaly
> smart IMHO
> graham
>
>
Message 8
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
I've used "bumper paint" on the top off the panel. This is just ordinary
2-pack isocyanate in any colour of choice, with or without plasticiser (its
not needed), a texturiser (small uniformly graded "bits", in a choice of a
range of sizes (eg fine medium or course)) and a flattening agent (which
removes the gloss).
Its tough and easy to clean.
Only mistake I made was not to put in enough flattener, resulting in
reflections from the panel top onto the inside of the windscreen in strong
sunlight.
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Chuck Popenoe" <cpops@verizon.net>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Nextel
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Chuck Popenoe" <cpops@verizon.net>
>
> I agree with Graham--I have used Nextel and would never use it on a panel.
> It looks great when fresh, but you don't want to touch it, because it will
> pick up fingerprints and smudges with the greatest of ease! Doesn't clean
> up easily, either. I have done my Avid panel in plain old matt finish
> black, which is much superior in practicality to Nextel.
>
> Pops
> A036 -- On hold at the present
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham
> Singleton
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Europa-List: Nextel
>
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton
> --> <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
>
> At 23:56 18/10/2004 -0700, you wrote:
> >Has anyone used the above product on their aeroplane - If so, is it
> >easy stuff to use? The panel on our classic needs some re-work so I'm
> >going to buy a set of blank panels from Europa and cut the holes where
> >we want them. The instrument pod is finished in Nextel so, it would be
> >nice to spray the new panel to match (as long as its reasonably
> >straight forward).
>
> Nextel is a very specialized paint, needs its own primer and although it
> looks very nice when new, tends to pick up dirt and dust easier than
other
> finishes. You cannot buy less than a 1 liter kit or both primer and
finish.
> I would prefer to black anodize the aluminium parts, that looks equaly
> smart IMHO
> graham
>
>
> advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | anodizing [was: Nextel] |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
An alternative which gives a really good (and hardwearing) finish is to
use three cheap spray can paints from the local hardware store.
Coat 1 - Black anodizing primer
Coat 2 - Grey undercoat
Coat 3 - Clear exterior acrylic
This gives an almost matt finish and is really tough. It takes 3
evenings to finish and is really cheap.
The black anodizing primer by itself also works really well and is very
tough... just look at the blade retention blocks on any airmaster hub to
check out the finish.
Regards
Tony
Message 10
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| Subject: | anodizing [was: Nextel] |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Chuck Popenoe" <cpops@verizon.net>
Rowland-
The answer for reasonable anodizing is to find a anodizer which does a good
bit of business, and leave your part there until they get another large job
of the same color. They can then add your small part to the lot at minimal
cost. This has worked for me in the past, with the cost turning out to be
quite reasonable.
Pops
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rowland Carson
Subject: Europa-List: anodizing [was: Nextel]
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
At 2004-10-19 22:44 +0100 Graham Singleton wrote:
>I would prefer to black anodize the aluminium parts, that looks equaly
>smart IMHO
Graham - I agree on the smart appearance; where can you get it done
cheap? I was quoted UK pounds 60.00 for my 180mm x 265mm piece of ali
with 6 big holes occupying the great majority of its area. I think I
may just spray it myself if I can't do much better than that price -
then if it gets scratched again it won't cost much to re-spray.
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson PFA #16532 <http://home.clara.net/rowil/aviation/>
| 730 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail <rowil@clara.net>
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 11
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| Subject: | Lexan v. Plexiglas |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
Hi All,
I'm on the verge of vacuum forming wingtip lighting covers suitable for
those nifty combo landing light, strobe, and LED position lights made by
CreativAir and am uncertain whether to do so in lexan or plexiglas.
I'd prefer the lexan for strength but seem to recall that polycarbonate
tends to yellow with age...or perhaps that only occurred w/ the early
formulations of the material.
Does anyone have any insights which might help me decide?
Fred
A194
Message 12
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--> Europa-List message posted by: ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk
Hi! All
Use Cobalt Blue ..... you dont see any finger marks and the yellow ident
tapes strike you in the face and the panel doesn't cause any wind screen
reflection.
I'm very satisfied with mine.
See http://www.crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk/europa.htn
Regards
Bob H G-PTAG
>-- Original Message --
>From: "Chuck Popenoe" <cpops@verizon.net>
>To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
>Subject: RE: Europa-List: Nextel
>Date: Tue, 19 Oct 2004 18:57:12 -0400
>Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com
>
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Chuck Popenoe" <cpops@verizon.net>
>
>I agree with Graham--I have used Nextel and would never use it on a panel.
>It looks great when fresh, but you don't want to touch it, because it will
>pick up fingerprints and smudges with the greatest of ease! Doesn't clean
>up easily, either. I have done my Avid panel in plain old matt finish
>black, which is much superior in practicality to Nextel.
>
>Pops
>A036 -- On hold at the present
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham
>Singleton
>To: europa-list@matronics.com
>Subject: Europa-List: Nextel
>
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton
>--> <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
>
>At 23:56 18/10/2004 -0700, you wrote:
>>Has anyone used the above product on their aeroplane - If so, is it
>>easy stuff to use? The panel on our classic needs some re-work so I'm
>>going to buy a set of blank panels from Europa and cut the holes where
>>we want them. The instrument pod is finished in Nextel so, it would be
>>nice to spray the new panel to match (as long as its reasonably
>>straight forward).
>
>Nextel is a very specialized paint, needs its own primer and although it
>
>looks very nice when new, tends to pick up dirt and dust easier than other
>
>finishes. You cannot buy less than a 1 liter kit or both primer and finish.
>I would prefer to black anodize the aluminium parts, that looks equaly
>smart IMHO
>graham
>
>
>advertising on the Matronics Forums.
>
>
Win 12 amazing weekend breaks, one every month for a year to Dublin, Milan,
the Alps, Paris and beyond
http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/competitions/brilliant_weekends.html
Message 13
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| Subject: | Lexan v. Plexiglas |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
Acrylic, chemical name polymethylmethacrylate, (trade names: Plexiglass,
Lucite) will yellow with age but polycarbonate (trade name: Lexan) will
remain clear and colorless, assuming you start with the clear variety.
Polycarbonate is not only optically superior to acrylic but it is much
stronger and therefore less likely to allow a bird in your face, not that
your lights will care, but it's nice to know that the Europa windscreen is
made of the right stuff.
The real disadvantage of polycarbonate vs. acrylic is that polycarbonate is
a softer material, so in the absence of a scratch resistant coating it is
more easily scratched than acrylic which does not require a coating.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Fred R. Klein
Subject: Europa-List: Lexan v. Plexiglas
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
Hi All,
I'm on the verge of vacuum forming wingtip lighting covers suitable for
those nifty combo landing light, strobe, and LED position lights made by
CreativAir and am uncertain whether to do so in lexan or plexiglas.
I'd prefer the lexan for strength but seem to recall that polycarbonate
tends to yellow with age...or perhaps that only occurred w/ the early
formulations of the material.
Does anyone have any insights which might help me decide?
Fred
A194
Message 14
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| Subject: | Lexan v. Plexiglas |
--> Europa-List message posted by: <beecho@beecho.org>
Hi Fred
More power to you! I tried and I could not make them well. Graham
Singleton makes them very well at a very reasonable cost. I would contact
him.
Tom
XS mono Jabiru A079 N96V
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred R. Klein
Subject: Europa-List: Lexan v. Plexiglas
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
Hi All,
I'm on the verge of vacuum forming wingtip lighting covers suitable for
those nifty combo landing light, strobe, and LED position lights made by
CreativAir and am uncertain whether to do so in lexan or plexiglas.
I'd prefer the lexan for strength but seem to recall that polycarbonate
tends to yellow with age...or perhaps that only occurred w/ the early
formulations of the material.
Does anyone have any insights which might help me decide?
Fred
A194
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Lexan v. Plexiglas |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Fred,
I have a set of wing tip lenses from Graham and the worked out really nice.
Rather than go to a bunch of work making your own you might like to give him
a try. For lights I used the ones made by Eric at
http://www.periheliondesign.com/ and I am very happy with them.
Paul
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Lexan v. Plexiglas
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein"
<fklein@orcasonline.com>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I'm on the verge of vacuum forming wingtip lighting covers suitable for
> those nifty combo landing light, strobe, and LED position lights made by
> CreativAir and am uncertain whether to do so in lexan or plexiglas.
>
> I'd prefer the lexan for strength but seem to recall that polycarbonate
> tends to yellow with age...or perhaps that only occurred w/ the early
> formulations of the material.
>
> Does anyone have any insights which might help me decide?
>
> Fred
> A194
>
>
Message 16
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Hi All,
I painted my panel with black speckle paint made by Zolatone. It worked out
pretty great and seems to be holding up well. Its availalbe from AC Spruce.
Paul - 120 hours and still grinning
http://europa363.versadev.com/
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Lexan v. Plexiglas |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
Thanks you all, Lexan it is. After "talking" w/ Graham and learning that
he's not been satisfied w/ his results, I decided to try my hand at molding
my own...very time-consuming of course, but...what the heck! I'll report my
results soon.
Fred
A194
> --> Europa-List message posted by: <beecho@beecho.org>
>
> Hi Fred
>
> More power to you! I tried and I could not make them well. Graham
> Singleton makes them very well at a very reasonable cost. I would contact
> him.
>
> Tom
> XS mono Jabiru A079 N96V
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <RobH@hyperion-ef.com>
>
> ...polycarbonate (trade name: Lexan) will remain clear and colorless, assuming
> you start with the clear variety. Polycarbonate is not only optically superior
> to acrylic but it is much stronger...
>
> Rob Housman
>
> -----Original Message-----
> Subject: Europa-List: Lexan v. Plexiglas
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I'm on the verge of vacuum forming wingtip lighting covers suitable for
> those nifty combo landing light, strobe, and LED position lights made by
> CreativAir and am uncertain whether to do so in lexan or plexiglas.
>
> Fred
> A194
>
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