Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:05 AM - Old cowlings (John Cliff)
2. 02:31 AM - The List Fund Raiser - Great Gifts! (Matt Dralle)
3. 02:38 AM - Re: Old cowlings (Bob Fairall)
4. 03:47 AM - kit for sale (Runnymede73@aol.com)
5. 06:37 AM - Re: What engine for my Europa? (Richard Sementilli)
6. 07:30 AM - Re: What engine for my Europa? (Fred R. Klein)
7. 08:17 AM - Re: What engine for my Europa? (Alan Burrows)
8. 08:37 AM - Re: What engine for my Europa? (Richard Sementilli)
9. 08:40 AM - 914 Exhaust leaks? (Ronald J. Parigoris)
10. 08:44 AM - Re: What engine for my Europa? (owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com)
11. 09:21 AM - Re: What engine for my Europa? (Richard Sementilli)
12. 10:14 AM - Re: What engine for my Europa? (Alan Burrows)
13. 10:16 AM - Re: What engine for my Europa? (Paul Boulet)
14. 10:39 AM - Re: What engine for my Europa? (Fred R. Klein)
15. 11:03 AM - Re: What engine for my Europa? (Duncan McFadyean)
16. 12:11 PM - Re: What engine for my Europa? (Garry)
17. 12:23 PM - Re: What engine for my Europa? (Jerry Rehn)
18. 12:32 PM - Re: 914 Exhaust leaks? (Jerry Rehn)
19. 12:33 PM - Re: What engine for my Europa? (Kevin Klinefelter)
20. 03:22 PM - Re: What engine for my Europa? ()
21. 04:30 PM - Re: What engine for my Europa? (Paul McAllister)
22. 08:50 PM - Tail Wheel Lock Mono wheel trailer (Steve Crimm)
Message 1
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "John Cliff" <mx@crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk>
Does anyone have any use for an uncut pair of Classic cowlings, before they gp
to the tip ? (Moving house)
Free to a good home (I live near Bracknell, Berks., UK)
John Cliff
#0259
Message 2
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| Subject: | The List Fund Raiser - Great Gifts! |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
Just a reminder that we're well into this year's Email List Fund
Raiser! Response has been great so far and there has been a lot of
interest in the Gift options. Speaking of those Gifts, if you haven't
already checked out the nice selection you owe it to yourself to check them
out. They are once again provided by Andy Gold of the Builder's Bookstore
www.buildersbooks.com. The gifts this year include the following items:
* List Archive CD
* Aircraft Fuel Tester
* Builder's Logbook
* Mechanic's Toolbox CDROM
* 24 Years of the RVator
* Powerplant Video
* Jeppesen VFR Kneeboard
Won't you make a Contribution today to support the these valuable Email
List Services? Please remember that its YOUR generosity that entirely
supports the continued operation and upgrade of the Lists. That's it - no
ads, no banners, no SPAM, no virus, no pop-up ads - just good clean
fun! Well, that is, with your support of course!
Please take a moment and make a generous Contribution today. It only takes
a minute using the Contribution Web Site where you can use either a Credit
Card, PayPal, or a Personal Check to make your donation.
The URL for the SSL Secure Contribution web site can be found below and
also includes a complete description of this year's awesome gifts:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
I'd like to say a special "thank you!" to everyone one who has made
Contribution so far this year!! I really appreciate your generosity!
Best regards,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 3
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bob Fairall" <b_fairall@fairalls.co.uk>
Hi John,
I have a Classic and would be pleased to have them as a spare ........
needless to say, if anyone else responds with a greater need, please give
them preference. Also needless to say, I would be able to collect.
Bob Fairall
Classic kit 71, G-BXLK, flying
XS kit 494, under construction
(Godstone, Surrey)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of John Cliff
Subject: Europa-List: Old cowlings
--> Europa-List message posted by: "John Cliff"
<mx@crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk>
Does anyone have any use for an uncut pair of Classic cowlings, before they
gp
to the tip ? (Moving house)
Free to a good home (I live near Bracknell, Berks., UK)
John Cliff
#0259
Message 4
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Runnymede73@aol.com
made the same mistake as before despite rowland's reminder that the English
pound sign does not come up too well on emails
So forgive the repeat ad:
Due to other commitments I have need to sell my XS monowheel Kit.
All the flying surfaces have been professionally built but not filled.
The wings are complete but not covered and the cockpit module is finished
but not Reduxed in to the 'canoe' lower fuselage. The windscreen and panels
are supplied clear for safety reasons. Some work has been carried out to alter
the kit to a so called 'taildragger' but this is minimal and can easily be
reversed.
Full inventory. No engine. Over 18,000 UK pounds invested + professional
fees. Make me an offer. The new factory kits will soon be more expensive. Tel
UK......07710295961 0r email
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: What engine for my Europa? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Sementilli <rsementi@gmail.com>
Oh, I see, thank you. I am intending to buy an AP332.
Thx - RS
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 15:26:08 +1300, Tony Krzyzewski <tonyk@kaon.co.nz> wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
>
> >> whats a wobbly prop?
>
> Constant Speed (or variable pitch) prop.
>
> It's lovely thing, - about as useful as a gearbox on a car.
>
> Tony
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: What engine for my Europa? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
on 11/6/04 12:50 PM, Richard Sementilli at rsementi@gmail.com wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Sementilli <rsementi@gmail.com>
>
> I am down to 3 choices for an engine for my Europa.
> 1. Rotax 912S
> 2. Rotax 914
> 3. Jabiru 3300
>
> I would like to get objective opinions and actual experiences from
> anyone about the pro's and cons of each engine.
> My first choice is the 914 because of the all around performance but
> more than the huge price, I am worried about the complexity of the
> engine as it relates to maintenance and overall reliability. I have
> spoken to a few mechanics for Rotax but none of them have any
> experience with the 914 turbo. They all say to keep it simple and go
> with the 912 or the 3300. I agree but I'm willing to stretch that goal
> if feel that I could handle the burden of its complexity.
> My most probable choice would be the 912S because it seems I can get
> great performance (the same or better than the Jabiru 3300) with
> relative ease of operation and mainenance, lighter weight, and
> comparable price to the Jabiru. I've even found a mechanic that is
> near (2 hours away) to my location. However, to the best of my
> research, it is still a more complicated engine and drive unit than
> the simple low reving Jabiru. It needs pump gas almost always, which
> may not be easy to come by during cross country flights.
> The Jabiru is the least expensive, most simple design, seems easier to
> maintain, and is direct drive. However, it's less proven, heavier and
> I can't find any repair facilities in the NY tristate area.
> Am I missing any other engine possibilities that could be even a better
> choice?
>
I forward the following at the request of Alex Bowman, amhd@shaw.ca
Fred
A194
Your pros & cons re the available engines for the Europa were beautifully
discribed. Three years ago, I too, was facing this canundrum. I discussed
the problem with Keith Wilson while at Europa's home base in Yorkshire 1999,
but he was not helpful. May I add to your cons re the Jabiru 3300? It
achieves its 120 HP at an R.P.M. much too high for a propellor to be
efficient.
My final choice was a CAM 125 (Honda) developed by Firewall Forward,
Sidney, B.C. On the con side, it is heavy. As delivered it weighed 247
lbs. With care 17 ibs. were removed from the engine; this included parts of
the casting pertinent only to automobiles. A smaller 35 amp alternator was
used. I believe that the reduction unit could be reduced by 20 lbs. at
least. A friend who has been most helpful in this conversion has designed a
lighter version of this unit.
On the pro side: We have an engine that produces 130 HP; it has VTech;
has the legendary reliability of the Honda engine; great fuel economy and it
uses automobile fuel.
The deciding factor in the choice of this engine was that it was a four in
line cylinder arrangement. We were able to move the engine towards the
firewall, between the foot wells. In other words, the C of G of the CAM 125
is 5.5" closer to the firewall than the C of G of the Rotax 914. My Europa
carries no lead except the lead in the battery and in the flight control
mass balances. The battery was moved rearward by approx. 30".
We designed a cooling system for this engine untilizing two motorcycle
radiators and carefully crafted ducts and exits to reduce drag and still
provide adequate cooling. To me, this is the most satisfying portion of our
input; this has been very successful, and light.
My first flight was in May 04. My only snags were - an intermittant
transponder and friction between the inner aspect of the ailerons and the
flaps, in the clean configuration. My preliminary performance figures were
derived without the use of a GPS. Now I have a Garmin 295 and will crunch
real numbers. An incident on my way to Arlington, Washington in July 04
caught me like a startled fawn. The throttle linkage fractured while over
the Gulf Islands. Fortunately we had done "what ifs" in the design phase of
our conversion, and had spring loaded the throttle butterfly to the full
throttle position. The nearest airport was 20 miles to the stern. The
incident happened at 2,500' south east bound. Before the 180 degree turn
was completed, the indicated airspeed exceeded 200 mph. The landing was
without incident, but I noted that the propeller (Airmaster) stopped with
the ignition off when the gear and flaps were extended at 90 mph. My son
was with me, on his first flight, and was quiet, watching things unfold -
but not crumple.
Our flaw was the design of our throttle linkage - Honda knew better. We
acquiesed, and replaced the design with Honda's. The throttle corrections
have been completed, and I'll fly solo until I'm certain all is well.
In a previous career, I was the senior engineering flight test pilot for
the Royal Canadian Airforce at Canadair Ltd, Cartierville, Quebec. No
military aircraft that I flew had less snags than my wonderful Europa.
Alex Bowman amhd@shaw.ca
P.S. in 2002 this engine cost $12,000. US
P.S. An in-flight photo can be seen on the Matronics Photoshare site, posted
Oct. 23, '04,1852656-R1-018-7A.jpg
Message 7
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| Subject: | What engine for my Europa? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" <alan@kestrel-insurance.com>
Fred
I don't want to start a war or anything here. So I will qualify this by
saying THIS IS PURELY MY PERSONAL OPINION...having flown several
versions of Europa with all three rotax engines I chose the 914 turbo.
In the last 2yrs it has behaved perfectly and always had an excess of
power for almost any situation. I cannot rate it high enough. I do not
know of anyone who has fitted it having anything but praise for it. Now
that says it all to me. The guys who recommend other engines don't
usually have a 914 themselves so cannot really appreciate the brilliance
of this little engine. Fit the 914 you will be glad you did..!
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred R.
Klein
Subject: Re: Europa-List: What engine for my Europa?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein"
--> <fklein@orcasonline.com>
on 11/6/04 12:50 PM, Richard Sementilli at rsementi@gmail.com wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Sementilli
> --> <rsementi@gmail.com>
>
> I am down to 3 choices for an engine for my Europa.
> 1. Rotax 912S
> 2. Rotax 914
> 3. Jabiru 3300
>
> I would like to get objective opinions and actual experiences from
> anyone about the pro's and cons of each engine. My first choice is the
> 914 because of the all around performance but more than the huge
> price, I am worried about the complexity of the engine as it relates
> to maintenance and overall reliability. I have spoken to a few
> mechanics for Rotax but none of them have any experience with the 914
> turbo. They all say to keep it simple and go with the 912 or the 3300.
> I agree but I'm willing to stretch that goal if feel that I could
> handle the burden of its complexity. My most probable choice would be
> the 912S because it seems I can get great performance (the same or
> better than the Jabiru 3300) with relative ease of operation and
> mainenance, lighter weight, and comparable price to the Jabiru. I've
> even found a mechanic that is near (2 hours away) to my location.
> However, to the best of my research, it is still a more complicated
> engine and drive unit than the simple low reving Jabiru. It needs pump
> gas almost always, which may not be easy to come by during cross
> country flights. The Jabiru is the least expensive, most simple
> design, seems easier to maintain, and is direct drive. However, it's
> less proven, heavier and I can't find any repair facilities in the NY
> tristate area. Am I missing any other engine possibilities that could
> be even a better choice?
>
I forward the following at the request of Alex Bowman, amhd@shaw.ca
Fred
A194
Your pros & cons re the available engines for the Europa were
beautifully discribed. Three years ago, I too, was facing this
canundrum. I discussed the problem with Keith Wilson while at Europa's
home base in Yorkshire 1999, but he was not helpful. May I add to your
cons re the Jabiru 3300? It achieves its 120 HP at an R.P.M. much too
high for a propellor to be efficient.
My final choice was a CAM 125 (Honda) developed by Firewall Forward,
Sidney, B.C. On the con side, it is heavy. As delivered it weighed 247
lbs. With care 17 ibs. were removed from the engine; this included
parts of the casting pertinent only to automobiles. A smaller 35 amp
alternator was used. I believe that the reduction unit could be reduced
by 20 lbs. at least. A friend who has been most helpful in this
conversion has designed a lighter version of this unit.
On the pro side: We have an engine that produces 130 HP; it has
VTech; has the legendary reliability of the Honda engine; great fuel
economy and it uses automobile fuel.
The deciding factor in the choice of this engine was that it was a
four in line cylinder arrangement. We were able to move the engine
towards the firewall, between the foot wells. In other words, the C of
G of the CAM 125 is 5.5" closer to the firewall than the C of G of the
Rotax 914. My Europa carries no lead except the lead in the battery and
in the flight control mass balances. The battery was moved rearward by
approx. 30".
We designed a cooling system for this engine untilizing two motorcycle
radiators and carefully crafted ducts and exits to reduce drag and still
provide adequate cooling. To me, this is the most satisfying portion of
our input; this has been very successful, and light.
My first flight was in May 04. My only snags were - an intermittant
transponder and friction between the inner aspect of the ailerons and
the flaps, in the clean configuration. My preliminary performance
figures were derived without the use of a GPS. Now I have a Garmin 295
and will crunch real numbers. An incident on my way to Arlington,
Washington in July 04 caught me like a startled fawn. The throttle
linkage fractured while over the Gulf Islands. Fortunately we had done
"what ifs" in the design phase of our conversion, and had spring loaded
the throttle butterfly to the full throttle position. The nearest
airport was 20 miles to the stern. The incident happened at 2,500'
south east bound. Before the 180 degree turn was completed, the
indicated airspeed exceeded 200 mph. The landing was without incident,
but I noted that the propeller (Airmaster) stopped with the ignition off
when the gear and flaps were extended at 90 mph. My son was with me, on
his first flight, and was quiet, watching things unfold - but not
crumple.
Our flaw was the design of our throttle linkage - Honda knew better.
We acquiesed, and replaced the design with Honda's. The throttle
corrections have been completed, and I'll fly solo until I'm certain all
is well.
In a previous career, I was the senior engineering flight test pilot
for the Royal Canadian Airforce at Canadair Ltd, Cartierville, Quebec.
No military aircraft that I flew had less snags than my wonderful
Europa.
Alex Bowman amhd@shaw.ca
P.S. in 2002 this engine cost $12,000. US
P.S. An in-flight photo can be seen on the Matronics Photoshare site,
posted Oct. 23, '04,1852656-R1-018-7A.jpg
Message 8
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Thu, 11 Nov 2004 08:37:25 -0800 (PST)
| Subject: | Re: What engine for my Europa? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Sementilli <rsementi@gmail.com>
Wow what an impressive feat you have achieved with the Honda engine!
It sounds like it was a very complicated conversion! I guess not if
you are an engineer, and I am certainly not.
Anyway, thanks for the information. I did hear that Honda is starting
to make aircraft engines but I never looked into it, much less for the
Europa. I think my final decision is to go with the Rotax 912S with
the AP332 prop.
Regards,
Richard
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 07:29:50 -0800, Fred R. Klein
<fklein@orcasonline.com> wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
>
>
>
> on 11/6/04 12:50 PM, Richard Sementilli at rsementi@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Sementilli <rsementi@gmail.com>
> >
> > I am down to 3 choices for an engine for my Europa.
> > 1. Rotax 912S
> > 2. Rotax 914
> > 3. Jabiru 3300
> >
> > I would like to get objective opinions and actual experiences from
> > anyone about the pro's and cons of each engine.
> > My first choice is the 914 because of the all around performance but
> > more than the huge price, I am worried about the complexity of the
> > engine as it relates to maintenance and overall reliability. I have
> > spoken to a few mechanics for Rotax but none of them have any
> > experience with the 914 turbo. They all say to keep it simple and go
> > with the 912 or the 3300. I agree but I'm willing to stretch that goal
> > if feel that I could handle the burden of its complexity.
>
>
> > My most probable choice would be the 912S because it seems I can get
> > great performance (the same or better than the Jabiru 3300) with
> > relative ease of operation and mainenance, lighter weight, and
> > comparable price to the Jabiru. I've even found a mechanic that is
> > near (2 hours away) to my location. However, to the best of my
> > research, it is still a more complicated engine and drive unit than
> > the simple low reving Jabiru. It needs pump gas almost always, which
> > may not be easy to come by during cross country flights.
> > The Jabiru is the least expensive, most simple design, seems easier to
> > maintain, and is direct drive. However, it's less proven, heavier and
> > I can't find any repair facilities in the NY tristate area.
> > Am I missing any other engine possibilities that could be even a better
> > choice?
> >
>
> I forward the following at the request of Alex Bowman, amhd@shaw.ca
>
> Fred
> A194
>
> Your pros & cons re the available engines for the Europa were beautifully
> discribed. Three years ago, I too, was facing this canundrum. I discussed
> the problem with Keith Wilson while at Europa's home base in Yorkshire 1999,
> but he was not helpful. May I add to your cons re the Jabiru 3300? It
> achieves its 120 HP at an R.P.M. much too high for a propellor to be
> efficient.
>
> My final choice was a CAM 125 (Honda) developed by Firewall Forward,
> Sidney, B.C. On the con side, it is heavy. As delivered it weighed 247
> lbs. With care 17 ibs. were removed from the engine; this included parts of
> the casting pertinent only to automobiles. A smaller 35 amp alternator was
> used. I believe that the reduction unit could be reduced by 20 lbs. at
> least. A friend who has been most helpful in this conversion has designed a
> lighter version of this unit.
>
> On the pro side: We have an engine that produces 130 HP; it has VTech;
> has the legendary reliability of the Honda engine; great fuel economy and it
> uses automobile fuel.
>
> The deciding factor in the choice of this engine was that it was a four in
> line cylinder arrangement. We were able to move the engine towards the
> firewall, between the foot wells. In other words, the C of G of the CAM 125
> is 5.5" closer to the firewall than the C of G of the Rotax 914. My Europa
> carries no lead except the lead in the battery and in the flight control
> mass balances. The battery was moved rearward by approx. 30".
>
> We designed a cooling system for this engine untilizing two motorcycle
> radiators and carefully crafted ducts and exits to reduce drag and still
> provide adequate cooling. To me, this is the most satisfying portion of our
> input; this has been very successful, and light.
>
> My first flight was in May 04. My only snags were - an intermittant
> transponder and friction between the inner aspect of the ailerons and the
> flaps, in the clean configuration. My preliminary performance figures were
> derived without the use of a GPS. Now I have a Garmin 295 and will crunch
> real numbers. An incident on my way to Arlington, Washington in July 04
> caught me like a startled fawn. The throttle linkage fractured while over
> the Gulf Islands. Fortunately we had done "what ifs" in the design phase of
> our conversion, and had spring loaded the throttle butterfly to the full
> throttle position. The nearest airport was 20 miles to the stern. The
> incident happened at 2,500' south east bound. Before the 180 degree turn
> was completed, the indicated airspeed exceeded 200 mph. The landing was
> without incident, but I noted that the propeller (Airmaster) stopped with
> the ignition off when the gear and flaps were extended at 90 mph. My son
> was with me, on his first flight, and was quiet, watching things unfold -
> but not crumple.
>
> Our flaw was the design of our throttle linkage - Honda knew better. We
> acquiesed, and replaced the design with Honda's. The throttle corrections
> have been completed, and I'll fly solo until I'm certain all is well.
>
> In a previous career, I was the senior engineering flight test pilot for
> the Royal Canadian Airforce at Canadair Ltd, Cartierville, Quebec. No
> military aircraft that I flew had less snags than my wonderful Europa.
>
> Alex Bowman amhd@shaw.ca
>
> P.S. in 2002 this engine cost $12,000. US
>
> P.S. An in-flight photo can be seen on the Matronics Photoshare site, posted
> Oct. 23, '04,1852656-R1-018-7A.jpg
>
>
>
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | 914 Exhaust leaks? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Many folks out there have exhaust leaks on the 914?
What was required to remedy?
Thx.
Ron Parigoris
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: What engine for my Europa? |
--> Europa-List message posted by:
Amen!
Regards Gert
#151/OY-GDS
- 300 hours behind 914
Den 11/11-2004, kl. 17.21, skrev Alan Burrows:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows"
> <alan@kestrel-insurance.com>
>
> Fred
> I don't want to start a war or anything here. So I will qualify this by
> saying THIS IS PURELY MY PERSONAL OPINION...having flown several
> versions of Europa with all three rotax engines I chose the 914 turbo.
> In the last 2yrs it has behaved perfectly and always had an excess of
> power for almost any situation. I cannot rate it high enough. I do not
> know of anyone who has fitted it having anything but praise for it. Now
> that says it all to me. The guys who recommend other engines don't
> usually have a 914 themselves so cannot really appreciate the
> brilliance
> of this little engine. Fit the 914 you will be glad you did..!
>
> Alan
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: What engine for my Europa? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Sementilli <rsementi@gmail.com>
Alan - your comments are very tempting! I too would like to enjoy all
of the performance of the 914 but again here are my drawbacks:
1. I have called three Rotax repair facilities and none of them have
dealt with the 914 becase none of their customers own one so they do
not have experience in dealing with it. They cant give me any record
of reliability. However, they have lots of experience with the 912 and
the 912S and they praise the reliabilty.
2. Being a turbo engine, it is inherently complex and therefore, I
would assume have more chances to fail. Now I also would assume that a
failed turbo engine could still fly but with 912 power until I could
land it. That's a guess on my part but if it did fail, I'm sure it
would cost a ton to fix it! Plus who could fix it locally (NY state
area).
3. Everyone I spoke to that has a turbo said that its finicky and
needs alot more maintenance checking..especially if the plane sits for
long intervals.
4. One owner of the turbo said that he loved the performance but hated
the tinkering and maintenance. He said he would of installed a 912S if
he could do it all over again because he said he's pilot, not a
mechanic.
5. Finally, its alot of money for 15 hp and high altitude flying
capability. Again, I would spend the money if I felt comfortable about
the reliability and maintenance of this engine. I haven't heard any
feedback from people with this engine as it relates to reliablity.
Regardes,
Richard
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 16:21:44 -0000, Alan Burrows
<alan@kestrel-insurance.com> wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" <alan@kestrel-insurance.com>
>
> Fred
> I don't want to start a war or anything here. So I will qualify this by
> saying THIS IS PURELY MY PERSONAL OPINION...having flown several
> versions of Europa with all three rotax engines I chose the 914 turbo.
> In the last 2yrs it has behaved perfectly and always had an excess of
> power for almost any situation. I cannot rate it high enough. I do not
> know of anyone who has fitted it having anything but praise for it. Now
> that says it all to me. The guys who recommend other engines don't
> usually have a 914 themselves so cannot really appreciate the brilliance
> of this little engine. Fit the 914 you will be glad you did..!
>
> Alan
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred R.
> Klein
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: What engine for my Europa?
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein"
> --> <fklein@orcasonline.com>
>
> on 11/6/04 12:50 PM, Richard Sementilli at rsementi@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Sementilli
> > --> <rsementi@gmail.com>
> >
> > I am down to 3 choices for an engine for my Europa.
> > 1. Rotax 912S
> > 2. Rotax 914
> > 3. Jabiru 3300
> >
> > I would like to get objective opinions and actual experiences from
> > anyone about the pro's and cons of each engine. My first choice is the
>
> > 914 because of the all around performance but more than the huge
> > price, I am worried about the complexity of the engine as it relates
> > to maintenance and overall reliability. I have spoken to a few
> > mechanics for Rotax but none of them have any experience with the 914
> > turbo. They all say to keep it simple and go with the 912 or the 3300.
>
> > I agree but I'm willing to stretch that goal if feel that I could
> > handle the burden of its complexity. My most probable choice would be
> > the 912S because it seems I can get great performance (the same or
> > better than the Jabiru 3300) with relative ease of operation and
> > mainenance, lighter weight, and comparable price to the Jabiru. I've
> > even found a mechanic that is near (2 hours away) to my location.
> > However, to the best of my research, it is still a more complicated
> > engine and drive unit than the simple low reving Jabiru. It needs pump
>
> > gas almost always, which may not be easy to come by during cross
> > country flights. The Jabiru is the least expensive, most simple
> > design, seems easier to maintain, and is direct drive. However, it's
> > less proven, heavier and I can't find any repair facilities in the NY
> > tristate area. Am I missing any other engine possibilities that could
> > be even a better choice?
> >
>
> I forward the following at the request of Alex Bowman, amhd@shaw.ca
>
> Fred
> A194
>
> Your pros & cons re the available engines for the Europa were
> beautifully discribed. Three years ago, I too, was facing this
> canundrum. I discussed the problem with Keith Wilson while at Europa's
> home base in Yorkshire 1999, but he was not helpful. May I add to your
> cons re the Jabiru 3300? It achieves its 120 HP at an R.P.M. much too
> high for a propellor to be efficient.
>
> My final choice was a CAM 125 (Honda) developed by Firewall Forward,
> Sidney, B.C. On the con side, it is heavy. As delivered it weighed 247
> lbs. With care 17 ibs. were removed from the engine; this included
> parts of the casting pertinent only to automobiles. A smaller 35 amp
> alternator was used. I believe that the reduction unit could be reduced
> by 20 lbs. at least. A friend who has been most helpful in this
> conversion has designed a lighter version of this unit.
>
> On the pro side: We have an engine that produces 130 HP; it has
> VTech; has the legendary reliability of the Honda engine; great fuel
> economy and it uses automobile fuel.
>
> The deciding factor in the choice of this engine was that it was a
> four in line cylinder arrangement. We were able to move the engine
> towards the firewall, between the foot wells. In other words, the C of
> G of the CAM 125 is 5.5" closer to the firewall than the C of G of the
> Rotax 914. My Europa carries no lead except the lead in the battery and
> in the flight control mass balances. The battery was moved rearward by
> approx. 30".
>
> We designed a cooling system for this engine untilizing two motorcycle
> radiators and carefully crafted ducts and exits to reduce drag and still
> provide adequate cooling. To me, this is the most satisfying portion of
> our input; this has been very successful, and light.
>
> My first flight was in May 04. My only snags were - an intermittant
> transponder and friction between the inner aspect of the ailerons and
> the flaps, in the clean configuration. My preliminary performance
> figures were derived without the use of a GPS. Now I have a Garmin 295
> and will crunch real numbers. An incident on my way to Arlington,
> Washington in July 04 caught me like a startled fawn. The throttle
> linkage fractured while over the Gulf Islands. Fortunately we had done
> "what ifs" in the design phase of our conversion, and had spring loaded
> the throttle butterfly to the full throttle position. The nearest
> airport was 20 miles to the stern. The incident happened at 2,500'
> south east bound. Before the 180 degree turn was completed, the
> indicated airspeed exceeded 200 mph. The landing was without incident,
> but I noted that the propeller (Airmaster) stopped with the ignition off
> when the gear and flaps were extended at 90 mph. My son was with me, on
> his first flight, and was quiet, watching things unfold - but not
> crumple.
>
> Our flaw was the design of our throttle linkage - Honda knew better.
> We acquiesed, and replaced the design with Honda's. The throttle
> corrections have been completed, and I'll fly solo until I'm certain all
> is well.
>
> In a previous career, I was the senior engineering flight test pilot
> for the Royal Canadian Airforce at Canadair Ltd, Cartierville, Quebec.
> No military aircraft that I flew had less snags than my wonderful
> Europa.
>
> Alex Bowman amhd@shaw.ca
>
> P.S. in 2002 this engine cost $12,000. US
>
> P.S. An in-flight photo can be seen on the Matronics Photoshare site,
> posted Oct. 23, '04,1852656-R1-018-7A.jpg
>
>
>
Message 12
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|
| Subject: | What engine for my Europa? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" <alan@kestrel-insurance.com>
Richard
I have had it in my aircraft for almost two years and its worked
perfectly. I change the oil every 25 hrs check the plugs at the same
time and that's it..! Although I have now noticed a small problem with
the engine which is worrying me......One of the nuts holding the exhaust
manifold on is started to go slightly rusty in one corner :-) that's it.
Honestly it's the most perfect engine although the 912s is a great
second choice given your circumstances.
Have fun with your decision.
All the best
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
Sementilli
Subject: Re: Europa-List: What engine for my Europa?
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Sementilli
--> <rsementi@gmail.com>
Alan - your comments are very tempting! I too would like to enjoy all of
the performance of the 914 but again here are my drawbacks:
1. I have called three Rotax repair facilities and none of them have
dealt with the 914 becase none of their customers own one so they do not
have experience in dealing with it. They cant give me any record of
reliability. However, they have lots of experience with the 912 and the
912S and they praise the reliabilty.
2. Being a turbo engine, it is inherently complex and therefore, I would
assume have more chances to fail. Now I also would assume that a failed
turbo engine could still fly but with 912 power until I could land it.
That's a guess on my part but if it did fail, I'm sure it would cost a
ton to fix it! Plus who could fix it locally (NY state area). 3.
Everyone I spoke to that has a turbo said that its finicky and needs
alot more maintenance checking..especially if the plane sits for long
intervals. 4. One owner of the turbo said that he loved the performance
but hated the tinkering and maintenance. He said he would of installed a
912S if he could do it all over again because he said he's pilot, not a
mechanic. 5. Finally, its alot of money for 15 hp and high altitude
flying capability. Again, I would spend the money if I felt comfortable
about the reliability and maintenance of this engine. I haven't heard
any feedback from people with this engine as it relates to reliablity.
Regardes,
Richard
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 16:21:44 -0000, Alan Burrows
<alan@kestrel-insurance.com> wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows"
> --> <alan@kestrel-insurance.com>
>
> Fred
> I don't want to start a war or anything here. So I will qualify this
> by saying THIS IS PURELY MY PERSONAL OPINION...having flown several
> versions of Europa with all three rotax engines I chose the 914 turbo.
> In the last 2yrs it has behaved perfectly and always had an excess of
> power for almost any situation. I cannot rate it high enough. I do not
> know of anyone who has fitted it having anything but praise for it.
> Now that says it all to me. The guys who recommend other engines don't
> usually have a 914 themselves so cannot really appreciate the
> brilliance of this little engine. Fit the 914 you will be glad you
> did..!
>
> Alan
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred R.
> Klein
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: What engine for my Europa?
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein"
> --> <fklein@orcasonline.com>
>
> on 11/6/04 12:50 PM, Richard Sementilli at rsementi@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Sementilli
> > --> <rsementi@gmail.com>
> >
> > I am down to 3 choices for an engine for my Europa.
> > 1. Rotax 912S
> > 2. Rotax 914
> > 3. Jabiru 3300
> >
> > I would like to get objective opinions and actual experiences from
> > anyone about the pro's and cons of each engine. My first choice is
> > the
>
> > 914 because of the all around performance but more than the huge
> > price, I am worried about the complexity of the engine as it relates
> > to maintenance and overall reliability. I have spoken to a few
> > mechanics for Rotax but none of them have any experience with the
> > 914 turbo. They all say to keep it simple and go with the 912 or the
> > 3300.
>
> > I agree but I'm willing to stretch that goal if feel that I could
> > handle the burden of its complexity. My most probable choice would
> > be the 912S because it seems I can get great performance (the same
> > or better than the Jabiru 3300) with relative ease of operation and
> > mainenance, lighter weight, and comparable price to the Jabiru. I've
> > even found a mechanic that is near (2 hours away) to my location.
> > However, to the best of my research, it is still a more complicated
> > engine and drive unit than the simple low reving Jabiru. It needs
> > pump
>
> > gas almost always, which may not be easy to come by during cross
> > country flights. The Jabiru is the least expensive, most simple
> > design, seems easier to maintain, and is direct drive. However, it's
> > less proven, heavier and I can't find any repair facilities in the
> > NY tristate area. Am I missing any other engine possibilities that
> > could be even a better choice?
> >
>
> I forward the following at the request of Alex Bowman, amhd@shaw.ca
>
> Fred
> A194
>
> Your pros & cons re the available engines for the Europa were
> beautifully discribed. Three years ago, I too, was facing this
> canundrum. I discussed the problem with Keith Wilson while at
> Europa's home base in Yorkshire 1999, but he was not helpful. May I
> add to your cons re the Jabiru 3300? It achieves its 120 HP at an
> R.P.M. much too high for a propellor to be efficient.
>
> My final choice was a CAM 125 (Honda) developed by Firewall Forward,
> Sidney, B.C. On the con side, it is heavy. As delivered it weighed
> 247 lbs. With care 17 ibs. were removed from the engine; this
> included parts of the casting pertinent only to automobiles. A
> smaller 35 amp alternator was used. I believe that the reduction unit
> could be reduced by 20 lbs. at least. A friend who has been most
> helpful in this conversion has designed a lighter version of this
> unit.
>
> On the pro side: We have an engine that produces 130 HP; it has
> VTech; has the legendary reliability of the Honda engine; great fuel
> economy and it uses automobile fuel.
>
> The deciding factor in the choice of this engine was that it was a
> four in line cylinder arrangement. We were able to move the engine
> towards the firewall, between the foot wells. In other words, the C
> of G of the CAM 125 is 5.5" closer to the firewall than the C of G of
> the Rotax 914. My Europa carries no lead except the lead in the
> battery and in the flight control mass balances. The battery was
> moved rearward by approx. 30".
>
> We designed a cooling system for this engine untilizing two
> motorcycle radiators and carefully crafted ducts and exits to reduce
> drag and still provide adequate cooling. To me, this is the most
> satisfying portion of our input; this has been very successful, and
> light.
>
> My first flight was in May 04. My only snags were - an intermittant
> transponder and friction between the inner aspect of the ailerons and
> the flaps, in the clean configuration. My preliminary performance
> figures were derived without the use of a GPS. Now I have a Garmin
> 295 and will crunch real numbers. An incident on my way to Arlington,
> Washington in July 04 caught me like a startled fawn. The throttle
> linkage fractured while over the Gulf Islands. Fortunately we had
> done "what ifs" in the design phase of our conversion, and had spring
> loaded the throttle butterfly to the full throttle position. The
> nearest airport was 20 miles to the stern. The incident happened at
> 2,500' south east bound. Before the 180 degree turn was completed,
> the indicated airspeed exceeded 200 mph. The landing was without
> incident, but I noted that the propeller (Airmaster) stopped with the
> ignition off when the gear and flaps were extended at 90 mph. My son
> was with me, on his first flight, and was quiet, watching things
> unfold - but not crumple.
>
> Our flaw was the design of our throttle linkage - Honda knew better.
> We acquiesed, and replaced the design with Honda's. The throttle
> corrections have been completed, and I'll fly solo until I'm certain
> all is well.
>
> In a previous career, I was the senior engineering flight test pilot
> for the Royal Canadian Airforce at Canadair Ltd, Cartierville, Quebec.
> No military aircraft that I flew had less snags than my wonderful
> Europa.
>
> Alex Bowman amhd@shaw.ca
>
> P.S. in 2002 this engine cost $12,000. US
>
> P.S. An in-flight photo can be seen on the Matronics Photoshare site,
> posted Oct. 23, '04,1852656-R1-018-7A.jpg
>
>
>
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: What engine for my Europa? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Boulet <possibletodo@yahoo.com>
Hi;
I have a 914...very happy with it altho I've just started flying. John Hurst tells
me the turbo can be rebuilt for $500 if it fails....sounds cheap enuf to
me.
My only complaint is that in order to fly hi you're really going to need the long
range fuel tanks- you'll only have about 3 hours fly time without them. And
of course you'll need oxygen....a tank of O2 is only good for a couple tanks
of gas or so and costs about $30 or so to refill...what a nuisance.
FWIW
Paul Boulet, N914PB
Flying off my 40 hours in designated area
Richard Sementilli <rsementi@gmail.com> wrote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Sementilli
Alan - your comments are very tempting! I too would like to enjoy all
of the performance of the 914 but again here are my drawbacks:
1. I have called three Rotax repair facilities and none of them have
dealt with the 914 becase none of their customers own one so they do
not have experience in dealing with it. They cant give me any record
of reliability. However, they have lots of experience with the 912 and
the 912S and they praise the reliabilty.
2. Being a turbo engine, it is inherently complex and therefore, I
would assume have more chances to fail. Now I also would assume that a
failed turbo engine could still fly but with 912 power until I could
land it. That's a guess on my part but if it did fail, I'm sure it
would cost a ton to fix it! Plus who could fix it locally (NY state
area).
3. Everyone I spoke to that has a turbo said that its finicky and
needs alot more maintenance checking..especially if the plane sits for
long intervals.
4. One owner of the turbo said that he loved the performance but hated
the tinkering and maintenance. He said he would of installed a 912S if
he could do it all over again because he said he's pilot, not a
mechanic.
5. Finally, its alot of money for 15 hp and high altitude flying
capability. Again, I would spend the money if I felt comfortable about
the reliability and maintenance of this engine. I haven't heard any
feedback from people with this engine as it relates to reliablity.
Regardes,
Richard
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 16:21:44 -0000, Alan Burrows
wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows"
>
> Fred
> I don't want to start a war or anything here. So I will qualify this by
> saying THIS IS PURELY MY PERSONAL OPINION...having flown several
> versions of Europa with all three rotax engines I chose the 914 turbo.
> In the last 2yrs it has behaved perfectly and always had an excess of
> power for almost any situation. I cannot rate it high enough. I do not
> know of anyone who has fitted it having anything but praise for it. Now
> that says it all to me. The guys who recommend other engines don't
> usually have a 914 themselves so cannot really appreciate the brilliance
> of this little engine. Fit the 914 you will be glad you did..!
>
> Alan
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred R.
> Klein
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: What engine for my Europa?
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein"
> -->
>
> on 11/6/04 12:50 PM, Richard Sementilli at rsementi@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Sementilli
> > -->
> >
> > I am down to 3 choices for an engine for my Europa.
> > 1. Rotax 912S
> > 2. Rotax 914
> > 3. Jabiru 3300
> >
> > I would like to get objective opinions and actual experiences from
> > anyone about the pro's and cons of each engine. My first choice is the
>
> > 914 because of the all around performance but more than the huge
> > price, I am worried about the complexity of the engine as it relates
> > to maintenance and overall reliability. I have spoken to a few
> > mechanics for Rotax but none of them have any experience with the 914
> > turbo. They all say to keep it simple and go with the 912 or the 3300.
>
> > I agree but I'm willing to stretch that goal if feel that I could
> > handle the burden of its complexity. My most probable choice would be
> > the 912S because it seems I can get great performance (the same or
> > better than the Jabiru 3300) with relative ease of operation and
> > mainenance, lighter weight, and comparable price to the Jabiru. I've
> > even found a mechanic that is near (2 hours away) to my location.
> > However, to the best of my research, it is still a more complicated
> > engine and drive unit than the simple low reving Jabiru. It needs pump
>
> > gas almost always, which may not be easy to come by during cross
> > country flights. The Jabiru is the least expensive, most simple
> > design, seems easier to maintain, and is direct drive. However, it's
> > less proven, heavier and I can't find any repair facilities in the NY
> > tristate area. Am I missing any other engine possibilities that could
> > be even a better choice?
> >
>
> I forward the following at the request of Alex Bowman, amhd@shaw.ca
>
> Fred
> A194
>
> Your pros & cons re the available engines for the Europa were
> beautifully discribed. Three years ago, I too, was facing this
> canundrum. I discussed the problem with Keith Wilson while at Europa's
> home base in Yorkshire 1999, but he was not helpful. May I add to your
> cons re the Jabiru 3300? It achieves its 120 HP at an R.P.M. much too
> high for a propellor to be efficient.
>
> My final choice was a CAM 125 (Honda) developed by Firewall Forward,
> Sidney, B.C. On the con side, it is heavy. As delivered it weighed 247
> lbs. With care 17 ibs. were removed from the engine; this included
> parts of the casting pertinent only to automobiles. A smaller 35 amp
> alternator was used. I believe that the reduction unit could be reduced
> by 20 lbs. at least. A friend who has been most helpful in this
> conversion has designed a lighter version of this unit.
>
> On the pro side: We have an engine that produces 130 HP; it has
> VTech; has the legendary reliability of the Honda engine; great fuel
> economy and it uses automobile fuel.
>
> The deciding factor in the choice of this engine was that it was a
> four in line cylinder arrangement. We were able to move the engine
> towards the firewall, between the foot wells. In other words, the C of
> G of the CAM 125 is 5.5" closer to the firewall than the C of G of the
> Rotax 914. My Europa carries no lead except the lead in the battery and
> in the flight control mass balances. The battery was moved rearward by
> approx. 30".
>
> We designed a cooling system for this engine untilizing two motorcycle
> radiators and carefully crafted ducts and exits to reduce drag and still
> provide adequate cooling. To me, this is the most satisfying portion of
> our input; this has been very successful, and light.
>
> My first flight was in May 04. My only snags were - an intermittant
> transponder and friction between the inner aspect of the ailerons and
> the flaps, in the clean configuration. My preliminary performance
> figures were derived without the use of a GPS. Now I have a Garmin 295
> and will crunch real numbers. An incident on my way to Arlington,
> Washington in July 04 caught me like a startled fawn. The throttle
> linkage fractured while over the Gulf Islands. Fortunately we had done
> "what ifs" in the design phase of our conversion, and had spring loaded
> the throttle butterfly to the full throttle position. The nearest
> airport was 20 miles to the stern. The incident happened at 2,500'
> south east bound. Before the 180 degree turn was completed, the
> indicated airspeed exceeded 200 mph. The landing was without incident,
> but I noted that the propeller (Airmaster) stopped with the ignition off
> when the gear and flaps were extended at 90 mph. My son was with me, on
> his first flight, and was quiet, watching things unfold - but not
> crumple.
>
> Our flaw was the design of our throttle linkage - Honda knew better.
> We acquiesed, and replaced the design with Honda's. The throttle
> corrections have been completed, and I'll fly solo until I'm certain all
> is well.
>
> In a previous career, I was the senior engineering flight test pilot
> for the Royal Canadian Airforce at Canadair Ltd, Cartierville, Quebec.
> No military aircraft that I flew had less snags than my wonderful
> Europa.
>
> Alex Bowman amhd@shaw.ca
>
> P.S. in 2002 this engine cost $12,000. US
>
> P.S. An in-flight photo can be seen on the Matronics Photoshare site,
> posted Oct. 23, '04,1852656-R1-018-7A.jpg
>
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: What engine for my Europa? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
on 11/11/04 8:21 AM, Alan Burrows at alan@kestrel-insurance.com wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" <alan@kestrel-insurance.com>
>
> Fred
> I don't want to start a war or anything here. So I will qualify this by
> saying THIS IS PURELY MY PERSONAL OPINION...having flown several
> versions of Europa with all three rotax engines I chose the 914 turbo.
> In the last 2yrs it has behaved perfectly and always had an excess of
> power for almost any situation. I cannot rate it high enough. I do not
> know of anyone who has fitted it having anything but praise for it. Now
> that says it all to me. The guys who recommend other engines don't
> usually have a 914 themselves so cannot really appreciate the brilliance
> of this little engine. Fit the 914 you will be glad you did..!
>
> Alan
>
Alan,
Fear not!..my war-mongering antennae are focused elsewhere...and I value all
personal opinions, especially from someone w/ 2 yrs experience with which to
back them up. I freely admit that my decision to buy the Europa was strongly
influenced by its being mated with a state of the art certificated engine
(i.e., the Rotax 912S/914). Nonetheless, as a FWF-less builder, I've been
troubled by the numerous reports of the need for frequent tweaking of the
Rotaxes as well as references to weaknesses (the standard starter motor for
example) and costly fixes.
When this current thread began, I forwarded it to Alex Bowman thinking that
he might have some info which would be pertinent to answering the question,
"What engine for my Europa". I've encouraged Alex to join in the discussion,
and since he is not (to date) on the Europa-List, I posted his message at
his request.
As I've previously posted, I met Alex at the Arlington Fly-In this year and
was quite impressed with the quality of his overall aircraft and both the
aesthetic and the seemingly simple, robust, and bulletproof engine
installation...these are of course only opinions, expressed from a lawnchair
(not the cockpit) by someone working steadily on his airframe with all
options open as to powerplant.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
Fred
A194
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: What engine for my Europa? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
<< 5. Finally, its alot of money for 15 hp and high altitude flying
>capability. >>
Max,. continuous HP for 914 and 912S is 105 and 95 respectively. So in
normal use there is only 10hp difference; altitude excepted of course.
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Sementilli" <rsementi@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: What engine for my Europa?
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Sementilli <rsementi@gmail.com>
>
> Alan - your comments are very tempting! I too would like to enjoy all
> of the performance of the 914 but again here are my drawbacks:
>
> 1. I have called three Rotax repair facilities and none of them have
> dealt with the 914 becase none of their customers own one so they do
> not have experience in dealing with it. They cant give me any record
> of reliability. However, they have lots of experience with the 912 and
> the 912S and they praise the reliabilty.
>
> 2. Being a turbo engine, it is inherently complex and therefore, I
> would assume have more chances to fail. Now I also would assume that a
> failed turbo engine could still fly but with 912 power until I could
> land it. That's a guess on my part but if it did fail, I'm sure it
> would cost a ton to fix it! Plus who could fix it locally (NY state
> area).
> 3. Everyone I spoke to that has a turbo said that its finicky and
> needs alot more maintenance checking..especially if the plane sits for
> long intervals.
> 4. One owner of the turbo said that he loved the performance but hated
> the tinkering and maintenance. He said he would of installed a 912S if
> he could do it all over again because he said he's pilot, not a
> mechanic.
> 5. Finally, its alot of money for 15 hp and high altitude flying
> capability. Again, I would spend the money if I felt comfortable about
> the reliability and maintenance of this engine. I haven't heard any
> feedback from people with this engine as it relates to reliablity.
>
> Regardes,
> Richard
>
>
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: What engine for my Europa? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Garry" <garrys@tampabay.rr.com>
I've been flying my 914 for 5 years and basically never touched the engine.
It is not finicky and requires no more maintenance than any other engine.
As for "complexity", it's as simple as it gets. There are only two moving
parts, the turbine wheel and the wastegate. Change the oil, monitor the
plugs........that's it.
Garry Stout
N4220S Trigear
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Sementilli" <rsementi@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: What engine for my Europa?
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Sementilli <rsementi@gmail.com>
>
> Alan - your comments are very tempting! I too would like to enjoy all
> of the performance of the 914 but again here are my drawbacks:
>
> 1. I have called three Rotax repair facilities and none of them have
> dealt with the 914 becase none of their customers own one so they do
> not have experience in dealing with it. They cant give me any record
> of reliability. However, they have lots of experience with the 912 and
> the 912S and they praise the reliabilty.
>
> 2. Being a turbo engine, it is inherently complex and therefore, I
> would assume have more chances to fail. Now I also would assume that a
> failed turbo engine could still fly but with 912 power until I could
> land it. That's a guess on my part but if it did fail, I'm sure it
> would cost a ton to fix it! Plus who could fix it locally (NY state
> area).
> 3. Everyone I spoke to that has a turbo said that its finicky and
> needs alot more maintenance checking..especially if the plane sits for
> long intervals.
> 4. One owner of the turbo said that he loved the performance but hated
> the tinkering and maintenance. He said he would of installed a 912S if
> he could do it all over again because he said he's pilot, not a
> mechanic.
> 5. Finally, its alot of money for 15 hp and high altitude flying
> capability. Again, I would spend the money if I felt comfortable about
> the reliability and maintenance of this engine. I haven't heard any
> feedback from people with this engine as it relates to reliablity.
>
> Regardes,
> Richard
>
>
> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 16:21:44 -0000, Alan Burrows
> <alan@kestrel-insurance.com> wrote:
>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows"
>> <alan@kestrel-insurance.com>
>>
>> Fred
>> I don't want to start a war or anything here. So I will qualify this by
>> saying THIS IS PURELY MY PERSONAL OPINION...having flown several
>> versions of Europa with all three rotax engines I chose the 914 turbo.
>> In the last 2yrs it has behaved perfectly and always had an excess of
>> power for almost any situation. I cannot rate it high enough. I do not
>> know of anyone who has fitted it having anything but praise for it. Now
>> that says it all to me. The guys who recommend other engines don't
>> usually have a 914 themselves so cannot really appreciate the brilliance
>> of this little engine. Fit the 914 you will be glad you did..!
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred R.
>> Klein
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: What engine for my Europa?
>>
>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein"
>> --> <fklein@orcasonline.com>
>>
>> on 11/6/04 12:50 PM, Richard Sementilli at rsementi@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> > --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Sementilli
>> > --> <rsementi@gmail.com>
>> >
>> > I am down to 3 choices for an engine for my Europa.
>> > 1. Rotax 912S
>> > 2. Rotax 914
>> > 3. Jabiru 3300
>> >
>> > I would like to get objective opinions and actual experiences from
>> > anyone about the pro's and cons of each engine. My first choice is the
>>
>> > 914 because of the all around performance but more than the huge
>> > price, I am worried about the complexity of the engine as it relates
>> > to maintenance and overall reliability. I have spoken to a few
>> > mechanics for Rotax but none of them have any experience with the 914
>> > turbo. They all say to keep it simple and go with the 912 or the 3300.
>>
>> > I agree but I'm willing to stretch that goal if feel that I could
>> > handle the burden of its complexity. My most probable choice would be
>> > the 912S because it seems I can get great performance (the same or
>> > better than the Jabiru 3300) with relative ease of operation and
>> > mainenance, lighter weight, and comparable price to the Jabiru. I've
>> > even found a mechanic that is near (2 hours away) to my location.
>> > However, to the best of my research, it is still a more complicated
>> > engine and drive unit than the simple low reving Jabiru. It needs pump
>>
>> > gas almost always, which may not be easy to come by during cross
>> > country flights. The Jabiru is the least expensive, most simple
>> > design, seems easier to maintain, and is direct drive. However, it's
>> > less proven, heavier and I can't find any repair facilities in the NY
>> > tristate area. Am I missing any other engine possibilities that could
>> > be even a better choice?
>> >
>>
>> I forward the following at the request of Alex Bowman, amhd@shaw.ca
>>
>> Fred
>> A194
>>
>> Your pros & cons re the available engines for the Europa were
>> beautifully discribed. Three years ago, I too, was facing this
>> canundrum. I discussed the problem with Keith Wilson while at Europa's
>> home base in Yorkshire 1999, but he was not helpful. May I add to your
>> cons re the Jabiru 3300? It achieves its 120 HP at an R.P.M. much too
>> high for a propellor to be efficient.
>>
>> My final choice was a CAM 125 (Honda) developed by Firewall Forward,
>> Sidney, B.C. On the con side, it is heavy. As delivered it weighed 247
>> lbs. With care 17 ibs. were removed from the engine; this included
>> parts of the casting pertinent only to automobiles. A smaller 35 amp
>> alternator was used. I believe that the reduction unit could be reduced
>> by 20 lbs. at least. A friend who has been most helpful in this
>> conversion has designed a lighter version of this unit.
>>
>> On the pro side: We have an engine that produces 130 HP; it has
>> VTech; has the legendary reliability of the Honda engine; great fuel
>> economy and it uses automobile fuel.
>>
>> The deciding factor in the choice of this engine was that it was a
>> four in line cylinder arrangement. We were able to move the engine
>> towards the firewall, between the foot wells. In other words, the C of
>> G of the CAM 125 is 5.5" closer to the firewall than the C of G of the
>> Rotax 914. My Europa carries no lead except the lead in the battery and
>> in the flight control mass balances. The battery was moved rearward by
>> approx. 30".
>>
>> We designed a cooling system for this engine untilizing two motorcycle
>> radiators and carefully crafted ducts and exits to reduce drag and still
>> provide adequate cooling. To me, this is the most satisfying portion of
>> our input; this has been very successful, and light.
>>
>> My first flight was in May 04. My only snags were - an intermittant
>> transponder and friction between the inner aspect of the ailerons and
>> the flaps, in the clean configuration. My preliminary performance
>> figures were derived without the use of a GPS. Now I have a Garmin 295
>> and will crunch real numbers. An incident on my way to Arlington,
>> Washington in July 04 caught me like a startled fawn. The throttle
>> linkage fractured while over the Gulf Islands. Fortunately we had done
>> "what ifs" in the design phase of our conversion, and had spring loaded
>> the throttle butterfly to the full throttle position. The nearest
>> airport was 20 miles to the stern. The incident happened at 2,500'
>> south east bound. Before the 180 degree turn was completed, the
>> indicated airspeed exceeded 200 mph. The landing was without incident,
>> but I noted that the propeller (Airmaster) stopped with the ignition off
>> when the gear and flaps were extended at 90 mph. My son was with me, on
>> his first flight, and was quiet, watching things unfold - but not
>> crumple.
>>
>> Our flaw was the design of our throttle linkage - Honda knew better.
>> We acquiesed, and replaced the design with Honda's. The throttle
>> corrections have been completed, and I'll fly solo until I'm certain all
>> is well.
>>
>> In a previous career, I was the senior engineering flight test pilot
>> for the Royal Canadian Airforce at Canadair Ltd, Cartierville, Quebec.
>> No military aircraft that I flew had less snags than my wonderful
>> Europa.
>>
>> Alex Bowman amhd@shaw.ca
>>
>> P.S. in 2002 this engine cost $12,000. US
>>
>> P.S. An in-flight photo can be seen on the Matronics Photoshare site,
>> posted Oct. 23, '04,1852656-R1-018-7A.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: What engine for my Europa? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jerry Rehn" <rehn@rockisland.com>
I too have the 914 with approx 300 hrs of trouble free service. I chose it
for added safety For those high density alt. days that one may run into and
that added climb power when needed. We also have mountains near. I often do
not use the turbo on take off when at sea level and light loads but nice to
have when one needs it. I had a Kitfox with a 912 and it was a great engine
as well. I would call Lockwood in Florida if you need to talk to people with
914 exp.They convinced me of the 914 reliabilty .
Regards
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard Sementilli" <rsementi@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: What engine for my Europa?
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Sementilli <rsementi@gmail.com>
>
> Alan - your comments are very tempting! I too would like to enjoy all
> of the performance of the 914 but again here are my drawbacks:
>
> 1. I have called three Rotax repair facilities and none of them have
> dealt with the 914 becase none of their customers own one so they do
> not have experience in dealing with it. They cant give me any record
> of reliability. However, they have lots of experience with the 912 and
> the 912S and they praise the reliabilty.
>
> 2. Being a turbo engine, it is inherently complex and therefore, I
> would assume have more chances to fail. Now I also would assume that a
> failed turbo engine could still fly but with 912 power until I could
> land it. That's a guess on my part but if it did fail, I'm sure it
> would cost a ton to fix it! Plus who could fix it locally (NY state
> area).
> 3. Everyone I spoke to that has a turbo said that its finicky and
> needs alot more maintenance checking..especially if the plane sits for
> long intervals.
> 4. One owner of the turbo said that he loved the performance but hated
> the tinkering and maintenance. He said he would of installed a 912S if
> he could do it all over again because he said he's pilot, not a
> mechanic.
> 5. Finally, its alot of money for 15 hp and high altitude flying
> capability. Again, I would spend the money if I felt comfortable about
> the reliability and maintenance of this engine. I haven't heard any
> feedback from people with this engine as it relates to reliablity.
>
> Regardes,
> Richard
>
>
> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 16:21:44 -0000, Alan Burrows
> <alan@kestrel-insurance.com> wrote:
>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows"
>> <alan@kestrel-insurance.com>
>>
>> Fred
>> I don't want to start a war or anything here. So I will qualify this by
>> saying THIS IS PURELY MY PERSONAL OPINION...having flown several
>> versions of Europa with all three rotax engines I chose the 914 turbo.
>> In the last 2yrs it has behaved perfectly and always had an excess of
>> power for almost any situation. I cannot rate it high enough. I do not
>> know of anyone who has fitted it having anything but praise for it. Now
>> that says it all to me. The guys who recommend other engines don't
>> usually have a 914 themselves so cannot really appreciate the brilliance
>> of this little engine. Fit the 914 you will be glad you did..!
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred R.
>> Klein
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: What engine for my Europa?
>>
>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein"
>> --> <fklein@orcasonline.com>
>>
>> on 11/6/04 12:50 PM, Richard Sementilli at rsementi@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> > --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Sementilli
>> > --> <rsementi@gmail.com>
>> >
>> > I am down to 3 choices for an engine for my Europa.
>> > 1. Rotax 912S
>> > 2. Rotax 914
>> > 3. Jabiru 3300
>> >
>> > I would like to get objective opinions and actual experiences from
>> > anyone about the pro's and cons of each engine. My first choice is the
>>
>> > 914 because of the all around performance but more than the huge
>> > price, I am worried about the complexity of the engine as it relates
>> > to maintenance and overall reliability. I have spoken to a few
>> > mechanics for Rotax but none of them have any experience with the 914
>> > turbo. They all say to keep it simple and go with the 912 or the 3300.
>>
>> > I agree but I'm willing to stretch that goal if feel that I could
>> > handle the burden of its complexity. My most probable choice would be
>> > the 912S because it seems I can get great performance (the same or
>> > better than the Jabiru 3300) with relative ease of operation and
>> > mainenance, lighter weight, and comparable price to the Jabiru. I've
>> > even found a mechanic that is near (2 hours away) to my location.
>> > However, to the best of my research, it is still a more complicated
>> > engine and drive unit than the simple low reving Jabiru. It needs pump
>>
>> > gas almost always, which may not be easy to come by during cross
>> > country flights. The Jabiru is the least expensive, most simple
>> > design, seems easier to maintain, and is direct drive. However, it's
>> > less proven, heavier and I can't find any repair facilities in the NY
>> > tristate area. Am I missing any other engine possibilities that could
>> > be even a better choice?
>> >
>>
>> I forward the following at the request of Alex Bowman, amhd@shaw.ca
>>
>> Fred
>> A194
>>
>> Your pros & cons re the available engines for the Europa were
>> beautifully discribed. Three years ago, I too, was facing this
>> canundrum. I discussed the problem with Keith Wilson while at Europa's
>> home base in Yorkshire 1999, but he was not helpful. May I add to your
>> cons re the Jabiru 3300? It achieves its 120 HP at an R.P.M. much too
>> high for a propellor to be efficient.
>>
>> My final choice was a CAM 125 (Honda) developed by Firewall Forward,
>> Sidney, B.C. On the con side, it is heavy. As delivered it weighed 247
>> lbs. With care 17 ibs. were removed from the engine; this included
>> parts of the casting pertinent only to automobiles. A smaller 35 amp
>> alternator was used. I believe that the reduction unit could be reduced
>> by 20 lbs. at least. A friend who has been most helpful in this
>> conversion has designed a lighter version of this unit.
>>
>> On the pro side: We have an engine that produces 130 HP; it has
>> VTech; has the legendary reliability of the Honda engine; great fuel
>> economy and it uses automobile fuel.
>>
>> The deciding factor in the choice of this engine was that it was a
>> four in line cylinder arrangement. We were able to move the engine
>> towards the firewall, between the foot wells. In other words, the C of
>> G of the CAM 125 is 5.5" closer to the firewall than the C of G of the
>> Rotax 914. My Europa carries no lead except the lead in the battery and
>> in the flight control mass balances. The battery was moved rearward by
>> approx. 30".
>>
>> We designed a cooling system for this engine untilizing two motorcycle
>> radiators and carefully crafted ducts and exits to reduce drag and still
>> provide adequate cooling. To me, this is the most satisfying portion of
>> our input; this has been very successful, and light.
>>
>> My first flight was in May 04. My only snags were - an intermittant
>> transponder and friction between the inner aspect of the ailerons and
>> the flaps, in the clean configuration. My preliminary performance
>> figures were derived without the use of a GPS. Now I have a Garmin 295
>> and will crunch real numbers. An incident on my way to Arlington,
>> Washington in July 04 caught me like a startled fawn. The throttle
>> linkage fractured while over the Gulf Islands. Fortunately we had done
>> "what ifs" in the design phase of our conversion, and had spring loaded
>> the throttle butterfly to the full throttle position. The nearest
>> airport was 20 miles to the stern. The incident happened at 2,500'
>> south east bound. Before the 180 degree turn was completed, the
>> indicated airspeed exceeded 200 mph. The landing was without incident,
>> but I noted that the propeller (Airmaster) stopped with the ignition off
>> when the gear and flaps were extended at 90 mph. My son was with me, on
>> his first flight, and was quiet, watching things unfold - but not
>> crumple.
>>
>> Our flaw was the design of our throttle linkage - Honda knew better.
>> We acquiesed, and replaced the design with Honda's. The throttle
>> corrections have been completed, and I'll fly solo until I'm certain all
>> is well.
>>
>> In a previous career, I was the senior engineering flight test pilot
>> for the Royal Canadian Airforce at Canadair Ltd, Cartierville, Quebec.
>> No military aircraft that I flew had less snags than my wonderful
>> Europa.
>>
>> Alex Bowman amhd@shaw.ca
>>
>> P.S. in 2002 this engine cost $12,000. US
>>
>> P.S. An in-flight photo can be seen on the Matronics Photoshare site,
>> posted Oct. 23, '04,1852656-R1-018-7A.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: 914 Exhaust leaks? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jerry Rehn" <rehn@rockisland.com>
Have not had a leak 300hrs, so can't help.
Jerry
----- Original Message -----
From: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
Subject: Europa-List: 914 Exhaust leaks?
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris"
> <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
>
> Many folks out there have exhaust leaks on the 914?
>
> What was required to remedy?
>
> Thx.
> Ron Parigoris
>
>
>
Message 19
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|
| Subject: | What engine for my Europa? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" <kevann@gte.net>
No one has yet mentioned the advantage of increased TAS at the high cruising
altitudes possible with the 914. Higher the better!
And Paul, refill your O2 from your own big cylinders of welding oxygen. I
have filled hundreds of small cylinders used by competition Hangglider
pilots. I only charged 5 bucks per fill and made good money! Welding O2 is
the same as Aviators only cheaper. I plan to have a couple big cylinders
linked together by a manifold set up in my hanger. Free fills to all Europa
Pilots!
And Paul, congrats on finally getting to fly your plane! Must feel really
good.
Back to sanding... Kevin
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Paul Boulet
Subject: Re: Europa-List: What engine for my Europa?
--> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Boulet <possibletodo@yahoo.com>
Hi;
I have a 914...very happy with it altho I've just started flying. John
Hurst tells me the turbo can be rebuilt for $500 if it fails....sounds cheap
enuf to me.
My only complaint is that in order to fly hi you're really going to need the
long range fuel tanks- you'll only have about 3 hours fly time without them.
And of course you'll need oxygen....a tank of O2 is only good for a couple
tanks of gas or so and costs about $30 or so to refill...what a nuisance.
FWIW
Paul Boulet, N914PB
Flying off my 40 hours in designated area
Richard Sementilli <rsementi@gmail.com> wrote:
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Sementilli
Alan - your comments are very tempting! I too would like to enjoy all
of the performance of the 914 but again here are my drawbacks:
1. I have called three Rotax repair facilities and none of them have
dealt with the 914 becase none of their customers own one so they do
not have experience in dealing with it. They cant give me any record
of reliability. However, they have lots of experience with the 912 and
the 912S and they praise the reliabilty.
2. Being a turbo engine, it is inherently complex and therefore, I
would assume have more chances to fail. Now I also would assume that a
failed turbo engine could still fly but with 912 power until I could
land it. That's a guess on my part but if it did fail, I'm sure it
would cost a ton to fix it! Plus who could fix it locally (NY state
area).
3. Everyone I spoke to that has a turbo said that its finicky and
needs alot more maintenance checking..especially if the plane sits for
long intervals.
4. One owner of the turbo said that he loved the performance but hated
the tinkering and maintenance. He said he would of installed a 912S if
he could do it all over again because he said he's pilot, not a
mechanic.
5. Finally, its alot of money for 15 hp and high altitude flying
capability. Again, I would spend the money if I felt comfortable about
the reliability and maintenance of this engine. I haven't heard any
feedback from people with this engine as it relates to reliablity.
Regardes,
Richard
On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 16:21:44 -0000, Alan Burrows
wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows"
>
> Fred
> I don't want to start a war or anything here. So I will qualify this by
> saying THIS IS PURELY MY PERSONAL OPINION...having flown several
> versions of Europa with all three rotax engines I chose the 914 turbo.
> In the last 2yrs it has behaved perfectly and always had an excess of
> power for almost any situation. I cannot rate it high enough. I do not
> know of anyone who has fitted it having anything but praise for it. Now
> that says it all to me. The guys who recommend other engines don't
> usually have a 914 themselves so cannot really appreciate the brilliance
> of this little engine. Fit the 914 you will be glad you did..!
>
> Alan
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred R.
> Klein
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: What engine for my Europa?
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein"
> -->
>
> on 11/6/04 12:50 PM, Richard Sementilli at rsementi@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Sementilli
> > -->
> >
> > I am down to 3 choices for an engine for my Europa.
> > 1. Rotax 912S
> > 2. Rotax 914
> > 3. Jabiru 3300
> >
> > I would like to get objective opinions and actual experiences from
> > anyone about the pro's and cons of each engine. My first choice is the
>
> > 914 because of the all around performance but more than the huge
> > price, I am worried about the complexity of the engine as it relates
> > to maintenance and overall reliability. I have spoken to a few
> > mechanics for Rotax but none of them have any experience with the 914
> > turbo. They all say to keep it simple and go with the 912 or the 3300.
>
> > I agree but I'm willing to stretch that goal if feel that I could
> > handle the burden of its complexity. My most probable choice would be
> > the 912S because it seems I can get great performance (the same or
> > better than the Jabiru 3300) with relative ease of operation and
> > mainenance, lighter weight, and comparable price to the Jabiru. I've
> > even found a mechanic that is near (2 hours away) to my location.
> > However, to the best of my research, it is still a more complicated
> > engine and drive unit than the simple low reving Jabiru. It needs pump
>
> > gas almost always, which may not be easy to come by during cross
> > country flights. The Jabiru is the least expensive, most simple
> > design, seems easier to maintain, and is direct drive. However, it's
> > less proven, heavier and I can't find any repair facilities in the NY
> > tristate area. Am I missing any other engine possibilities that could
> > be even a better choice?
> >
>
> I forward the following at the request of Alex Bowman, amhd@shaw.ca
>
> Fred
> A194
>
> Your pros & cons re the available engines for the Europa were
> beautifully discribed. Three years ago, I too, was facing this
> canundrum. I discussed the problem with Keith Wilson while at Europa's
> home base in Yorkshire 1999, but he was not helpful. May I add to your
> cons re the Jabiru 3300? It achieves its 120 HP at an R.P.M. much too
> high for a propellor to be efficient.
>
> My final choice was a CAM 125 (Honda) developed by Firewall Forward,
> Sidney, B.C. On the con side, it is heavy. As delivered it weighed 247
> lbs. With care 17 ibs. were removed from the engine; this included
> parts of the casting pertinent only to automobiles. A smaller 35 amp
> alternator was used. I believe that the reduction unit could be reduced
> by 20 lbs. at least. A friend who has been most helpful in this
> conversion has designed a lighter version of this unit.
>
> On the pro side: We have an engine that produces 130 HP; it has
> VTech; has the legendary reliability of the Honda engine; great fuel
> economy and it uses automobile fuel.
>
> The deciding factor in the choice of this engine was that it was a
> four in line cylinder arrangement. We were able to move the engine
> towards the firewall, between the foot wells. In other words, the C of
> G of the CAM 125 is 5.5" closer to the firewall than the C of G of the
> Rotax 914. My Europa carries no lead except the lead in the battery and
> in the flight control mass balances. The battery was moved rearward by
> approx. 30".
>
> We designed a cooling system for this engine untilizing two motorcycle
> radiators and carefully crafted ducts and exits to reduce drag and still
> provide adequate cooling. To me, this is the most satisfying portion of
> our input; this has been very successful, and light.
>
> My first flight was in May 04. My only snags were - an intermittant
> transponder and friction between the inner aspect of the ailerons and
> the flaps, in the clean configuration. My preliminary performance
> figures were derived without the use of a GPS. Now I have a Garmin 295
> and will crunch real numbers. An incident on my way to Arlington,
> Washington in July 04 caught me like a startled fawn. The throttle
> linkage fractured while over the Gulf Islands. Fortunately we had done
> "what ifs" in the design phase of our conversion, and had spring loaded
> the throttle butterfly to the full throttle position. The nearest
> airport was 20 miles to the stern. The incident happened at 2,500'
> south east bound. Before the 180 degree turn was completed, the
> indicated airspeed exceeded 200 mph. The landing was without incident,
> but I noted that the propeller (Airmaster) stopped with the ignition off
> when the gear and flaps were extended at 90 mph. My son was with me, on
> his first flight, and was quiet, watching things unfold - but not
> crumple.
>
> Our flaw was the design of our throttle linkage - Honda knew better.
> We acquiesed, and replaced the design with Honda's. The throttle
> corrections have been completed, and I'll fly solo until I'm certain all
> is well.
>
> In a previous career, I was the senior engineering flight test pilot
> for the Royal Canadian Airforce at Canadair Ltd, Cartierville, Quebec.
> No military aircraft that I flew had less snags than my wonderful
> Europa.
>
> Alex Bowman amhd@shaw.ca
>
> P.S. in 2002 this engine cost $12,000. US
>
> P.S. An in-flight photo can be seen on the Matronics Photoshare site,
> posted Oct. 23, '04,1852656-R1-018-7A.jpg
>
>
---
---
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: What engine for my Europa? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: <kbcarpenter@comcast.net>
I have had fine time with my 914 now at 280 hours. The turbo works well and
aside from balancing the carbs(easy) there has not been a lot of tinkering.
Overheating problems that can occur are an installation issue and respond to
the discussed minor changes. The 912 seems to be good too. If you never
had high elevation fields and stay below 8000', the 912 would prob do a good
job. Still, it sure does feel good to crank in 39' manifold pressure on
take-off.
Ken Carpenter
N9XS A123
----- Original Message -----
From: "Alan Burrows" <alan@kestrel-insurance.com>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: What engine for my Europa?
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows"
> <alan@kestrel-insurance.com>
>
> Richard
>
> I have had it in my aircraft for almost two years and its worked
> perfectly. I change the oil every 25 hrs check the plugs at the same
> time and that's it..! Although I have now noticed a small problem with
> the engine which is worrying me......One of the nuts holding the exhaust
> manifold on is started to go slightly rusty in one corner :-) that's it.
> Honestly it's the most perfect engine although the 912s is a great
> second choice given your circumstances.
> Have fun with your decision.
> All the best
>
> Alan
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard
> Sementilli
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: What engine for my Europa?
>
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Sementilli
> --> <rsementi@gmail.com>
>
> Alan - your comments are very tempting! I too would like to enjoy all of
> the performance of the 914 but again here are my drawbacks:
>
> 1. I have called three Rotax repair facilities and none of them have
> dealt with the 914 becase none of their customers own one so they do not
> have experience in dealing with it. They cant give me any record of
> reliability. However, they have lots of experience with the 912 and the
> 912S and they praise the reliabilty.
>
> 2. Being a turbo engine, it is inherently complex and therefore, I would
> assume have more chances to fail. Now I also would assume that a failed
> turbo engine could still fly but with 912 power until I could land it.
> That's a guess on my part but if it did fail, I'm sure it would cost a
> ton to fix it! Plus who could fix it locally (NY state area). 3.
> Everyone I spoke to that has a turbo said that its finicky and needs
> alot more maintenance checking..especially if the plane sits for long
> intervals. 4. One owner of the turbo said that he loved the performance
> but hated the tinkering and maintenance. He said he would of installed a
> 912S if he could do it all over again because he said he's pilot, not a
> mechanic. 5. Finally, its alot of money for 15 hp and high altitude
> flying capability. Again, I would spend the money if I felt comfortable
> about the reliability and maintenance of this engine. I haven't heard
> any feedback from people with this engine as it relates to reliablity.
>
> Regardes,
> Richard
>
>
> On Thu, 11 Nov 2004 16:21:44 -0000, Alan Burrows
> <alan@kestrel-insurance.com> wrote:
>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows"
>> --> <alan@kestrel-insurance.com>
>>
>> Fred
>> I don't want to start a war or anything here. So I will qualify this
>> by saying THIS IS PURELY MY PERSONAL OPINION...having flown several
>> versions of Europa with all three rotax engines I chose the 914 turbo.
>
>> In the last 2yrs it has behaved perfectly and always had an excess of
>> power for almost any situation. I cannot rate it high enough. I do not
>
>> know of anyone who has fitted it having anything but praise for it.
>> Now that says it all to me. The guys who recommend other engines don't
>
>> usually have a 914 themselves so cannot really appreciate the
>> brilliance of this little engine. Fit the 914 you will be glad you
>> did..!
>>
>> Alan
>>
>>
>>
>> -----Original Message-----
>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred R.
>> Klein
>> To: europa-list@matronics.com
>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: What engine for my Europa?
>>
>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein"
>> --> <fklein@orcasonline.com>
>>
>> on 11/6/04 12:50 PM, Richard Sementilli at rsementi@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>> > --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Sementilli
>> > --> <rsementi@gmail.com>
>> >
>> > I am down to 3 choices for an engine for my Europa.
>> > 1. Rotax 912S
>> > 2. Rotax 914
>> > 3. Jabiru 3300
>> >
>> > I would like to get objective opinions and actual experiences from
>> > anyone about the pro's and cons of each engine. My first choice is
>> > the
>>
>> > 914 because of the all around performance but more than the huge
>> > price, I am worried about the complexity of the engine as it relates
>
>> > to maintenance and overall reliability. I have spoken to a few
>> > mechanics for Rotax but none of them have any experience with the
>> > 914 turbo. They all say to keep it simple and go with the 912 or the
>
>> > 3300.
>>
>> > I agree but I'm willing to stretch that goal if feel that I could
>> > handle the burden of its complexity. My most probable choice would
>> > be the 912S because it seems I can get great performance (the same
>> > or better than the Jabiru 3300) with relative ease of operation and
>> > mainenance, lighter weight, and comparable price to the Jabiru. I've
>
>> > even found a mechanic that is near (2 hours away) to my location.
>> > However, to the best of my research, it is still a more complicated
>> > engine and drive unit than the simple low reving Jabiru. It needs
>> > pump
>>
>> > gas almost always, which may not be easy to come by during cross
>> > country flights. The Jabiru is the least expensive, most simple
>> > design, seems easier to maintain, and is direct drive. However, it's
>
>> > less proven, heavier and I can't find any repair facilities in the
>> > NY tristate area. Am I missing any other engine possibilities that
>> > could be even a better choice?
>> >
>>
>> I forward the following at the request of Alex Bowman, amhd@shaw.ca
>>
>> Fred
>> A194
>>
>> Your pros & cons re the available engines for the Europa were
>> beautifully discribed. Three years ago, I too, was facing this
>> canundrum. I discussed the problem with Keith Wilson while at
>> Europa's home base in Yorkshire 1999, but he was not helpful. May I
>> add to your cons re the Jabiru 3300? It achieves its 120 HP at an
>> R.P.M. much too high for a propellor to be efficient.
>>
>> My final choice was a CAM 125 (Honda) developed by Firewall Forward,
>> Sidney, B.C. On the con side, it is heavy. As delivered it weighed
>> 247 lbs. With care 17 ibs. were removed from the engine; this
>> included parts of the casting pertinent only to automobiles. A
>> smaller 35 amp alternator was used. I believe that the reduction unit
>
>> could be reduced by 20 lbs. at least. A friend who has been most
>> helpful in this conversion has designed a lighter version of this
>> unit.
>>
>> On the pro side: We have an engine that produces 130 HP; it has
>> VTech; has the legendary reliability of the Honda engine; great fuel
>> economy and it uses automobile fuel.
>>
>> The deciding factor in the choice of this engine was that it was a
>> four in line cylinder arrangement. We were able to move the engine
>> towards the firewall, between the foot wells. In other words, the C
>> of G of the CAM 125 is 5.5" closer to the firewall than the C of G of
>> the Rotax 914. My Europa carries no lead except the lead in the
>> battery and in the flight control mass balances. The battery was
>> moved rearward by approx. 30".
>>
>> We designed a cooling system for this engine untilizing two
>> motorcycle radiators and carefully crafted ducts and exits to reduce
>> drag and still provide adequate cooling. To me, this is the most
>> satisfying portion of our input; this has been very successful, and
>> light.
>>
>> My first flight was in May 04. My only snags were - an intermittant
>> transponder and friction between the inner aspect of the ailerons and
>> the flaps, in the clean configuration. My preliminary performance
>> figures were derived without the use of a GPS. Now I have a Garmin
>> 295 and will crunch real numbers. An incident on my way to Arlington,
>
>> Washington in July 04 caught me like a startled fawn. The throttle
>> linkage fractured while over the Gulf Islands. Fortunately we had
>> done "what ifs" in the design phase of our conversion, and had spring
>
>> loaded the throttle butterfly to the full throttle position. The
>> nearest airport was 20 miles to the stern. The incident happened at
>> 2,500' south east bound. Before the 180 degree turn was completed,
>> the indicated airspeed exceeded 200 mph. The landing was without
>> incident, but I noted that the propeller (Airmaster) stopped with the
>> ignition off when the gear and flaps were extended at 90 mph. My son
>> was with me, on his first flight, and was quiet, watching things
>> unfold - but not crumple.
>>
>> Our flaw was the design of our throttle linkage - Honda knew better.
>> We acquiesed, and replaced the design with Honda's. The throttle
>> corrections have been completed, and I'll fly solo until I'm certain
>> all is well.
>>
>> In a previous career, I was the senior engineering flight test pilot
>> for the Royal Canadian Airforce at Canadair Ltd, Cartierville, Quebec.
>
>> No military aircraft that I flew had less snags than my wonderful
>> Europa.
>>
>> Alex Bowman amhd@shaw.ca
>>
>> P.S. in 2002 this engine cost $12,000. US
>>
>> P.S. An in-flight photo can be seen on the Matronics Photoshare site,
>> posted Oct. 23, '04,1852656-R1-018-7A.jpg
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
Message 21
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| Subject: | Re: What engine for my Europa? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Hi all,
Well I have to pile on here. I have 130 hours on my 914 so far and I am
delighted...... It offers a nice cruise at altitude, I can out run my
friends RV6's at 10'000 feet. It also has terrific take off performance
when needed. I recently departed a 2000' grass strip which was at 2800 feet
elevation nestled between two 5500' hills. The owner who has a Maul was
concerned about me getting in a out. I was at MUW on departure and called
me on the radio... he couldn't believe my takeoff perfroamce.
I have not had any cooling problems and apart from oil changes I find I have
to balance the carbs every 25 ~ 40 hours.
Paul
Message 22
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|
| Subject: | Tail Wheel Lock Mono wheel trailer |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Crimm" <steve.crimm@stephenscott.com>
Has anyone come up with a neat way to lock the tail wheel onto the monowheel
trailer to keep it from moving toward the rear of the trailer when in
transit? Mine has the slots for the tail wheel bolts, so it slides in and
is held in to keep it from bouncing up and down. I am using nylon rope to
hold it in place and think I need a little better locking apparatus.
Steve Crimm
N15JN
A058
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