Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:47 AM - What engine for my Europa? (p-a.austin)
2. 02:31 AM - [PLEASE READ] - Why Do I Have A Fund Raiser Each Year? (Matt Dralle)
3. 02:49 AM - Re: What engine for my Europa? (Alan Burrows)
4. 03:14 AM - Re: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for Permit aircraft in the UK? (Alan Burrows)
5. 04:40 AM - Re: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for Permit aircraft in the UK? (Peter Grant)
6. 07:14 AM - Re: What engine for my Europa? (nigel charles)
7. 07:45 AM - Re: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for Permit aircraft in the UK? (M.J. Gregory)
8. 07:59 AM - Re: What engine for my Europa? (Nigel Graham)
9. 08:00 AM - motorglider certification problems (Rob Huntington)
10. 08:42 AM - Re: What engine for my Europa? (Lmorgan822@aol.com)
11. 09:27 AM - Re: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for Permit aircraft in the UK? (Jeremy Davey)
12. 11:59 AM - Re: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for Permit aircraft in the UK? (bryan allsop)
13. 12:02 PM - Re: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for Permit aircraft in the UK? (Jeremy Davey)
14. 01:55 PM - Re: What engine for my Europa? (Trevpond@aol.com)
15. 02:18 PM - Interior Paint (JEFF ROBERTS)
16. 02:27 PM - Which oil? (Peter Rees)
17. 02:48 PM - Re: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for Permit aircraft in the UK? (Pete Lawless)
18. 03:03 PM - Re: Interior Paint (Tony Krzyzewski)
19. 04:12 PM - Re: Interior Paint ()
20. 04:18 PM - Re: Interior Paint (Paul McAllister)
21. 05:33 PM - Re: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for Permit (josok)
22. 05:50 PM - Re: Interior Paint (Craig Ellison)
23. 06:11 PM - Any Southern California Builders (David Simenauer)
24. 06:32 PM - Re: Which oil? (SPurpura@aol.com)
25. 08:17 PM - Re: Re: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for Permit (Brad Newell)
26. 08:34 PM - Re: Re: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for Per... (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
27. 11:13 PM - RE : Interior Paint (mau11)
Message 1
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Subject: | What engine for my Europa? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "p-a.austin" <p-a.austin@xtra.co.nz>
> Why would anyone want to put a 1940 technology pulse jet in a Year 2004
> Europa ? Sorry folks but I think you have got it all wrong.
>
> What we need is an engine with plenty of power, plenty of cylinders for
> smoothness, slow turning with heaps of torque to drive a nice big
> propeller efficiently, an engine that is efficient with a BSFC of around
> .27 lbs/hp/hr instead of about .47 and not only be light weight, but
> will run on any available fuel.
>
> Look no further, the answer is at
> http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/
>
> Anybody got any ideas where I can pick up a FWF kit ?
Try Wilksch Airmotive, they put out a slightly smaller version!!
Peter
#198
Message 2
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Subject: | [PLEASE READ] - Why Do I Have A Fund Raiser Each Year? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Matt Dralle <dralle@matronics.com>
Dear Listers,
I was thinking that perhaps I should explain why I have a Fund Raiser and
also take the opportunity to express why I think the List Services here
provide a far better experience than the commercial equivalents.
I use the List Fund Raiser each year to offset the costs involved with
running a high performance email list site such as this one. With the
annual support from the List members through the PBS-like Fund Raiser, I
have found I can run the entire site without having to inflect any of the
members with those annoying banner ads flashing up all the time trying to
sell Toner Cartridge Refills or other garbage nobody wants or needs. From
the comments I've received over the years regarding the Lists, the great
majority of the members really appreciate the non-commercialism of my List
systems and don't mind my 'go-team-go' banter once a year to encourage
members to support the Lists.
I believe that the Lists services that I provide here offer a great many
benefits over the commercial equivalents in a number of ways. The first
feature I believe to be particularly significant is that you *cannot*
receive a computer v*rus from any of my Lists directly. I've been on a few
other List servers and have been unfortunate enough to download infected
files people have innocently or not-so-innocently included with their
posts. This just can't happen with my Lists; each incoming message is
filtered and attachments stripped off prior to posting. I provide a Photo
and File Share feature that allows members to share files and bitmaps with
other members and everyone can be assured that these files will be
prescanned for any sort of v*rus before they are posted. Safe and
simple. Also, with this photo and file sharing technique, the Archives
don't get loaded up with a huge amounts of bitmap "data" that slows the
Archive Search times.
Another feature of this system is the extensive List Archives that are
available for download, browsing, and searching. The Archives go all the
way back to the very beginning of each List and with the super fast Search
Engine, the huge size of the Archives is a non-issue in quickly finding the
data you're looking for. Another feature of the Archives, in my opinion,
is that they have been primarily stripped of all the useless email header
garbage that seems to build up in a typical email thread.
I have received an extremely positive response from Listers regarding the
List Browse feature and the consensus is that the format and ease of use is
outstanding. Members report that having the previous 7 days worth of
messages on line for easy browsing and sorting is hugely beneficial. And
again, as with the real time distribution of List email, the messages are
stripped of all the unnecessary email headers and potentially dangerous
v*ruses.
I've been running email Lists and services under the matronics.com domain
since about 1989 starting with RV-List and 30 guys who I knew and who where
also building RVs. It has grown into well over 50 different
aviation-related Email Lists and an associated web site that receives over
13,000,000 hits each year!! Additionally, the List email system forwards
well over 32,000,000 (yes, that's 32 MILLION) email messages to subscribers
each year! With all the dot.bombs these days, I think there's a lot of
value in supporting a service that has gone the long haul and is still
providing and improving a high quality service at a price that's nearly free.
I have to admit running these Lists is a labor of love and I hope it shows
in the quality of the experience that you receive when you get a List Email
Message, Search the Archives, or use the List Browser. The Lists will be
here for a long time to come. If you just want to lurk a while for free,
that's great and I encourage you to do so. If you use, appreciate, and
receive value from these Lists, then please support them during the Annual
List Fund Raiser!
The SSL Secure Contribution Web Site:
http://www.matronics.com/contribution
Thank you,
Matt Dralle
Email List Administrator
Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551
925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email
http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft
do not archive
Message 3
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Subject: | What engine for my Europa? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" <alan@kestrel-insurance.com>
Although it was said tongue in cheek as you guessed. But does anyone
have the torque settings for the exhaust manifold nuts as I would like
to change these rusty nuts also where do you get the copper coated ones?
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nigel
charles
Subject: RE: Europa-List: What engine for my Europa?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles"
--> <nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
>One of the nuts holding the exhaust manifold on is started to go
slightly rusty in one corner<
I know this was said tongue in cheek but I thought you would like to
know that the new type nuts are copper coated so don't corrode so
easily.
Nigel Charles
Message 4
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Subject: | What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for |
Permit aircraft in the UK?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" <alan@kestrel-insurance.com>
Jeremy
I would be VERY STRONGLY in favour of this proposal as its totally
illogical that I can only fly daytime VFR in an aircraft that is better
equipped than most "certified" aircraft I fly. Because I built it, I
look after it, and would dare to suggest I know it as well as anyone.
Given the vagaries of the British weather I accept that I will have to
fly in IMC sometimes so I "got trained". Now the only way I can maintain
my skills (and remain safe) is to own a share in a second aircraft that
I fly very infrequently! Whilst I have no statistics to back this up I
would suggest that a good number of incidents that occur to permit
aircraft involve flight into IMC conditions. Then why not allow this and
regulate it properly, with all the training and currency requirements
that involves. After all we are here to stay so why not embrace us into
the aviation community fully rather than leave us on the sidelines ( on
our terms of course).
Count me as a YES. Good Luck ! And I will be the first to buy you a few
very large drinks if you succeed as it gets very difficult sometimes
asking for "practice vectors onto the ILS" when the airport is busy! My
favourite answer when they decline is to ask for vectors to a visual
approach, that usually does the trick! :-)
Cheers
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy
Davey
Subject: Europa-List: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges
for Permit aircraft in the UK?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey"
--> <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
(Again, apologies to the non-UK folks - another local issue I need to
consult on.)
Many in the UK Europa community know I'm passionate about wanting
'extended privileges' (Night and IMC) in Europas and other suitable
Permit aircraft. The PFA is looking into the possibility of pushing the
CAA for Night and IMC privileges for Permit aircraft in the UK. I've
taken an action to find out how interested the membership is, and this
Forum seems a good place to start!
Let's start by understanding what some of the constraints MIGHT be
(nothing is decided yet).
1) Obviously only suitable types are going to be considered. So
no IMC
work in a Pitts S2. Stability will be a key requirement here.
2) Aircraft will have to be suitable equipped - including the
right
instrument and lighting fits.
3) Permits allowing extended privileges will likely cost more to
cover
the extra Engineering work.
4) Required inspection and build standards may well be higher.
Given the above, could I please ask PFA members to advise me either on
this Forum or privately to EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com as to whether you:
1) Would be for this proposal
2) Would be against this proposal
3) Would be neither for nor against this proposal
Thanks and regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative
PFA EC Member
"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it
is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation." Tail
done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with
airbrakes fittings) 1200 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914
turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons,
switches, gizmos, and alarms
Message 5
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Subject: | What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for |
Permit aircraft in the UK?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Grant" <peter@us-eurolink.co.uk>
Hi Jeremy
Strongly in favour, in might even make me reregister as an 'N' and use my US
IR!
Regards
Peter Grant
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Davey
Subject: Europa-List: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for
Permit aircraft in the UK?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
(Again, apologies to the non-UK folks - another local issue I need to
consult on.)
Many in the UK Europa community know I'm passionate about wanting 'extended
privileges' (Night and IMC) in Europas and other suitable Permit aircraft.
The PFA is looking into the possibility of pushing the CAA for Night and IMC
privileges for Permit aircraft in the UK. I've taken an action to find out
how interested the membership is, and this Forum seems a good place to
start!
Let's start by understanding what some of the constraints MIGHT be (nothing
is decided yet).
1) Obviously only suitable types are going to be considered. So no
IMC
work in a Pitts S2. Stability will be a key requirement here.
2) Aircraft will have to be suitable equipped - including the right
instrument and lighting fits.
3) Permits allowing extended privileges will likely cost more to
cover
the extra Engineering work.
4) Required inspection and build standards may well be higher.
Given the above, could I please ask PFA members to advise me either on this
Forum or privately to EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com as to whether you:
1) Would be for this proposal
2) Would be against this proposal
3) Would be neither for nor against this proposal
Thanks and regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative
PFA EC Member
"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is
possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation."
Tail done
Standard XS wings with mods underway
CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)
1200 build hours to date
Intended fit:
Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop
Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms
Message 6
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Subject: | What engine for my Europa? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" <nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
>Although it was said tongue in cheek as you guessed. But does anyone
have the torque settings for the exhaust manifold nuts as I would like
to change these rusty nuts also where do you get the copper coated
ones?<
I think the torque setting is 20Nm but you will have to check in the
manual. Skydrive sell the new nuts.
Nigel
Message 7
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Subject: | What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for |
Permit aircraft in the UK?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "M.J. Gregory" <m.j.gregory@talk21.com>
Jeremy
Yes, I am strongly in favour of night and IMC privileges for Permit
aircraft, especially the Europa.
I firmly believe in pilots developing their skills so that they are able to
cope with conditions beyond those in which they normally fly. Regular
practice in both simulated and actual conditions would result in people
being much better placed to fly safely when faced with the unexpected. It
should not, however, be treated as a licence to fly regardless of the
weather any more than you would in a certified aircraft.
For those not familiar with the privileges of a UK IMC rating, it is
important to understand that this is not a full Instrument Rating and does
not allow pilots to file an IFR flight plan (e.g. to fly airways). The
minimum equipment level required for a Permit aircraft to fly in IMC should
not necessarily be higher than that required for a certified aircraft to fly
in IMC, certainly not a full IFR panel. The aim should be for people to be
able to handle their aircraft safely in conditions of limited visibility
(e.g. flying through cloud) and follow instructions such as a radar
talk-down approach. Equipment such as ILS could be added to the capability
according to people's needs and pockets.
Mike
Mike Gregory
Europa Club Safety Officer
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: What engine for my Europa? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Graham" <nigel_graham@btclick.com>
........just goes to show what can happen if you get the decimal point in
the wrong place!
Nigel
----- Original Message -----
From: "p-a.austin" <p-a.austin@xtra.co.nz>
What we need is an engine with plenty of power, plenty of cylinders for
smoothness, slow turning with heaps of torque to drive a nice big
propeller efficiently, an engine that is efficient with a BSFC of around
.27 lbs/hp/hr instead of about .47 and not only be light weight, but
will run on any available fuel.
Look no further, the answer is at
http://www.bath.ac.uk/~ccsshb/12cyl/
Peter
#198
Message 9
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|
Subject: | motorglider certification problems |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rob Huntington <robertodue2002@yahoo.com>
Hello all,
We are near completion of a Europa XS where the builder wants the ability to switch
between normal/short wings and the motorglider wings. The aircraft is ready
to fly with the short wings, while the long wings won't be ready for 2 or more
months. When we registered the a/c we indicated that it is a motorglider.
After turning the certification paperwork into our DAR, he indicated that the
FSDO told him that when the motorglider wings are finished, the owner will need
to go through 10 hours of flight testing EVERY time he switches wings. I spoke
to John Hurst about this and he told me that wasn't the case with any other
Europa motorglider.
I would appreciate any input from those with experience in certification and flight
testing using both long and short wings. Many thanks,
Rob Huntington
Phoenix Composites
4863 E. Falcon Dr.
Mesa, AZ 85215
ph (480) 924-9750
email robertodue2002@yahoo.com
---------------------------------
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: What engine for my Europa? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Lmorgan822@aol.com
I'm going to put in a SCRAM jet in my Europa as soon as they send me the kit I
paid for almost a year ago!!!!!!!!!
Message 11
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Subject: | What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for |
Permit aircraft in the UK?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
Thanks, Alan - this is one I'm very keen to see happen, as you know.
I thought you bought your plane ready-built, though... ;-)
Looking forward to those drinks - Snaefell on a hot summers evening?
Cheers,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative
PFA EC Member
"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is
possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation."
Tail done
Standard XS wings with mods underway
CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)
1200 build hours to date
Intended fit:
Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop
Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan Burrows
Subject: RE: Europa-List: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges
for Permit aircraft in the UK?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows"
<alan@kestrel-insurance.com>
Jeremy
I would be VERY STRONGLY in favour of this proposal as its totally
illogical that I can only fly daytime VFR in an aircraft that is better
equipped than most "certified" aircraft I fly. Because I built it, I
look after it, and would dare to suggest I know it as well as anyone.
Given the vagaries of the British weather I accept that I will have to
fly in IMC sometimes so I "got trained". Now the only way I can maintain
my skills (and remain safe) is to own a share in a second aircraft that
I fly very infrequently! Whilst I have no statistics to back this up I
would suggest that a good number of incidents that occur to permit
aircraft involve flight into IMC conditions. Then why not allow this and
regulate it properly, with all the training and currency requirements
that involves. After all we are here to stay so why not embrace us into
the aviation community fully rather than leave us on the sidelines ( on
our terms of course).
Count me as a YES. Good Luck ! And I will be the first to buy you a few
very large drinks if you succeed as it gets very difficult sometimes
asking for "practice vectors onto the ILS" when the airport is busy! My
favourite answer when they decline is to ask for vectors to a visual
approach, that usually does the trick! :-)
Cheers
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy
Davey
Subject: Europa-List: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges
for Permit aircraft in the UK?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey"
--> <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
(Again, apologies to the non-UK folks - another local issue I need to
consult on.)
Many in the UK Europa community know I'm passionate about wanting
'extended privileges' (Night and IMC) in Europas and other suitable
Permit aircraft. The PFA is looking into the possibility of pushing the
CAA for Night and IMC privileges for Permit aircraft in the UK. I've
taken an action to find out how interested the membership is, and this
Forum seems a good place to start!
Let's start by understanding what some of the constraints MIGHT be
(nothing is decided yet).
1) Obviously only suitable types are going to be considered. So
no IMC
work in a Pitts S2. Stability will be a key requirement here.
2) Aircraft will have to be suitable equipped - including the
right
instrument and lighting fits.
3) Permits allowing extended privileges will likely cost more to
cover
the extra Engineering work.
4) Required inspection and build standards may well be higher.
Given the above, could I please ask PFA members to advise me either on
this Forum or privately to EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com as to whether you:
1) Would be for this proposal
2) Would be against this proposal
3) Would be neither for nor against this proposal
Thanks and regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative
PFA EC Member
"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it
is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation." Tail
done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with
airbrakes fittings) 1200 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914
turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons,
switches, gizmos, and alarms
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for |
Permit aircraft in the UK?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "bryan allsop" <info@blackballclub.fsnet.co.uk>
Jeremy,
Sorry to be a slightly negative correspondent. Frankly I can see no good
reason to prevent suitably equipped Permit aircraft to fly IMC. Indeed,
those of us who fly a good deal in the UK will find it difficult to avoid
the odd experience where IMC training becomes very relevant.
To have my Europa cleared for IMC, and to have my rating renewed would make
me feel better, but there is no way I would contemplate using those
credentials to plan an IMC flight. Nor would I encourage anyone else to do
so.
The advantages of an IMC rating in the UK (only) is to have some priority
through controlled airspace, and to be competent at getting out of trouble.
This was drummed into me by my instructors during training, and at each
renewal.
I suppose that what I am saying is that training and practicing to IMC level
is a good thing. Having my Europa rated for IMC would not change my flying,
though perhaps I would be prepared to fly above cloud layers with a clear
conscience.
Rambling thoughts, I suppose. Maybe they could represent the attitude of
many who wont bother to correspond.
cheers Bryan
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy Davey" <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
Subject: Europa-List: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for
Permit aircraft in the UK?
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
>
> (Again, apologies to the non-UK folks - another local issue I need to
> consult on.)
>
> Many in the UK Europa community know I'm passionate about wanting
'extended
> privileges' (Night and IMC) in Europas and other suitable Permit aircraft.
> The PFA is looking into the possibility of pushing the CAA for Night and
IMC
> privileges for Permit aircraft in the UK. I've taken an action to find out
> how interested the membership is, and this Forum seems a good place to
> start!
>
> Let's start by understanding what some of the constraints MIGHT be
(nothing
> is decided yet).
>
> 1) Obviously only suitable types are going to be considered. So no
IMC
> work in a Pitts S2. Stability will be a key requirement here.
> 2) Aircraft will have to be suitable equipped - including the right
> instrument and lighting fits.
> 3) Permits allowing extended privileges will likely cost more to
cover
> the extra Engineering work.
> 4) Required inspection and build standards may well be higher.
>
> Given the above, could I please ask PFA members to advise me either on
this
> Forum or privately to EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com as to whether you:
>
> 1) Would be for this proposal
> 2) Would be against this proposal
> 3) Would be neither for nor against this proposal
>
> Thanks and regards,
> Jeremy
> Jeremy Davey
> Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
> Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative
> PFA EC Member
> "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it
is
> possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation."
> Tail done
> Standard XS wings with mods underway
> CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)
> 1200 build hours to date
> Intended fit:
> Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop
> Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms
>
>
Message 13
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Subject: | What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for |
Permit aircraft in the UK?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
Mike,
Thanks for your support in this! (Everyone, please keep the responses
coming, the more I get, the stronger the case.)
Can I just clarify something? This about IMC privileges in Permit aircraft,
not the IMC rating for pilots. In theory the same rules would apply as for a
C172 or PA-28 with similar capabilities - the use of airways would depend on
the pilot's level of license. So if he has a full IR, up he goes! :-)
Now a separate but related topic of possible interest... The UK IMC rating
has been criticised in the past for existing solely for flying schools to
hold of more of our hard-earned cash, while training the pilots to be just
capable of being seriously dangerous to themselves and their passengers. I
have heard a case being made for abolishing the IMC rating and insisting on
full IRs.
The obstacle to a full IR, of course, is the cost. But in your own Permit
plane...? I think there is a significant safety case in here somewhere!
Regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative
PFA EC Member
"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is
possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation."
Tail done
Standard XS wings with mods underway
CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)
1200 build hours to date
Intended fit:
Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop
Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of M.J. Gregory
Subject: RE: Europa-List: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges
for Permit aircraft in the UK?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "M.J. Gregory" <m.j.gregory@talk21.com>
Jeremy
Yes, I am strongly in favour of night and IMC privileges for Permit
aircraft, especially the Europa.
I firmly believe in pilots developing their skills so that they are able to
cope with conditions beyond those in which they normally fly. Regular
practice in both simulated and actual conditions would result in people
being much better placed to fly safely when faced with the unexpected. It
should not, however, be treated as a licence to fly regardless of the
weather any more than you would in a certified aircraft.
For those not familiar with the privileges of a UK IMC rating, it is
important to understand that this is not a full Instrument Rating and does
not allow pilots to file an IFR flight plan (e.g. to fly airways). The
minimum equipment level required for a Permit aircraft to fly in IMC should
not necessarily be higher than that required for a certified aircraft to fly
in IMC, certainly not a full IFR panel. The aim should be for people to be
able to handle their aircraft safely in conditions of limited visibility
(e.g. flying through cloud) and follow instructions such as a radar
talk-down approach. Equipment such as ILS could be added to the capability
according to people's needs and pockets.
Mike
Mike Gregory
Europa Club Safety Officer
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: What engine for my Europa? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Trevpond@aol.com
In a message dated 17/11/2004 16:44:12 GMT Standard Time, Lmorgan822@aol.com
writes:
--> Europa-List message posted by: Lmorgan822@aol.com
I'm going to put in a SCRAM jet in my Europa as soon as they send me the kit
I paid for almost a year ago!!!!!!!!!
"They" are long gone!!! But thank goodness for the new company who are
looking after Europa owners and customers very well.
Trev Pond
Kit 598
One of "their" victims.
Message 15
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--> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS <jeff@rmmm.net>
I would like to know what others have done with regard to walls and
doors for the interior. I been told by a local Long EZ builder that the
proper way to go is with Zolitone. I can only find it being sold by the
gallon for $55.00. I don't need a whole gallon. Has anyone used the
Rustoleum product called Stone Creations found at your local hardware
store? I wonder if it would hold up in the extreme temps in the
cockpit.
Thanks for any advice in advance.
Regards,
Jeff
A258
Message 16
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" <peter.rees05@ntlworld.com>
When the permit comes through, we should finally take possession of Hotel India.
It has a 912UL fitted and is coming up for its first 25 hours and as such, should
really have the oil / filter changed.
Whilst the decision on the filter seems simple (skydrive have them on offer - 2
for =A314 unless anyone knows of a better deal), the choice of oil doesn't seem
so simple. At the moment, the favoured oil (via the Rotax site) seems to be
Shell VSX-4.
Does anyone have any opinion as the whether this is the correct oil for use on
this engine in based on UK temperatures? If not, what do you use in your Rotax
and why?
Peter
Message 17
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Subject: | What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for |
Permit aircraft in the UK?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Pete Lawless" <pete@lawless.info>
Hang on folks. We need to remember how, having got above cloud, we are
going to get back down. In Europe that requires ADF, DME as a minimum.
Between the 2 of them costs of 6,000 ish. Most of the ILS's require a
DME as well, since the demise of the marker beacons. Though I am not
sure if marker beacon recievers are still mandatory for IFR, they may
well be. I would support being able to fly my Europa in cloud, I
certainly would not want to fly it serious IFR. As for night, well
night flying has always seemed a waste of good drinking time!
Regards
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy
Davey
Subject: RE: Europa-List: What's your position on Night and IMC
privileges for Permit aircraft in the UK?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey"
--> <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
Mike,
Thanks for your support in this! (Everyone, please keep the responses
coming, the more I get, the stronger the case.)
Can I just clarify something? This about IMC privileges in Permit
aircraft, not the IMC rating for pilots. In theory the same rules would
apply as for a C172 or PA-28 with similar capabilities - the use of
airways would depend on the pilot's level of license. So if he has a
full IR, up he goes! :-)
Now a separate but related topic of possible interest... The UK IMC
rating has been criticised in the past for existing solely for flying
schools to hold of more of our hard-earned cash, while training the
pilots to be just capable of being seriously dangerous to themselves and
their passengers. I have heard a case being made for abolishing the IMC
rating and insisting on full IRs.
The obstacle to a full IR, of course, is the cost. But in your own
Permit plane...? I think there is a significant safety case in here
somewhere!
Regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative
PFA EC Member
"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it
is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation." Tail
done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with
airbrakes fittings) 1200 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914
turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons,
switches, gizmos, and alarms
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of M.J.
Gregory
Subject: RE: Europa-List: What's your position on Night and IMC
privileges for Permit aircraft in the UK?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "M.J. Gregory"
--> <m.j.gregory@talk21.com>
Jeremy
Yes, I am strongly in favour of night and IMC privileges for Permit
aircraft, especially the Europa.
I firmly believe in pilots developing their skills so that they are able
to cope with conditions beyond those in which they normally fly.
Regular practice in both simulated and actual conditions would result in
people being much better placed to fly safely when faced with the
unexpected. It should not, however, be treated as a licence to fly
regardless of the weather any more than you would in a certified
aircraft.
For those not familiar with the privileges of a UK IMC rating, it is
important to understand that this is not a full Instrument Rating and
does not allow pilots to file an IFR flight plan (e.g. to fly airways).
The minimum equipment level required for a Permit aircraft to fly in IMC
should not necessarily be higher than that required for a certified
aircraft to fly in IMC, certainly not a full IFR panel. The aim should
be for people to be able to handle their aircraft safely in conditions
of limited visibility (e.g. flying through cloud) and follow
instructions such as a radar talk-down approach. Equipment such as ILS
could be added to the capability according to people's needs and
pockets.
Mike
Mike Gregory
Europa Club Safety Officer
---
---
Message 18
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
>> I can only find it being sold by the gallon for $55.00. I don't need
a whole gallon. Has anyone used the Rustoleum product called Stone
Creations found at your local hardware store? I wonder if it would hold
up in the extreme temps in the cockpit.
I used a grey primer followed by speckle paint and two overcoats of
exterior clear acrylic. All of these were department store spray cans
and the finish looks really good. It's seems to have bonded really well
and I have marks on the surface even with all of the scrambling around
that goes on during the interior fitout.
Tony
Message 19
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--> Europa-List message posted by: <beecho@beecho.org>
Hi Jeff
I could not find any speckle paint that worked so I used the Stone Creations
with Acrylic clear over. It looks good but has scuffed of in several
locations that I will touch up but it doesn't seem to be very durable.
Tom Friedland A078
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JEFF ROBERTS
Subject: Europa-List: Interior Paint
--> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS <jeff@rmmm.net>
I would like to know what others have done with regard to walls and
doors for the interior. I been told by a local Long EZ builder that the
proper way to go is with Zolitone. I can only find it being sold by the
gallon for $55.00. I don't need a whole gallon. Has anyone used the
Rustoleum product called Stone Creations found at your local hardware
store? I wonder if it would hold up in the extreme temps in the
cockpit.
Thanks for any advice in advance.
Regards,
Jeff
A258
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
--
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 20
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Subject: | Re: Interior Paint |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Jeff,
I used the "Stone Creations" paint and sealed it with the companion clear
coat product. It has worked out really well and seems quite hard wearing.
Paul
Has anyone used the Rustoleum product called
Stone Creations found at your local hardware store? I wonder if it would
hold up in the extreme temps in the > cockpit.
Message 21
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Subject: | RE: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for |
Permit
2.60 REPLY_TO_EMPTY Reply-To: is empty
--> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
Even with the best prepared flightplan with the best available and actual information
it will happen to anybody who is regularly flying that he or she will end
up in IMC. Almost all of the deadly accidents over the last years in Finland
are examined to be due to loss of control in IMC. All of them were experienced
VFR pilots. Study shows that on average a VFR pilot looses control of his
plane in IMC in 45 seconds. To be able to handle your plane in IMC seems to be
pretty important. With that in mind it would be good the lower the threshold
to get sufficient experience and training. Plain IR in IFR rated planes is too
expensive, and will hold people off from getting proper training. The result
is not good for safety at all. Alternatively IMC training ( The UK has it, congrats)
in your own experimental, which then has to be equipped to handle the
situation, will save lives. It seems absurd to me, that since night operations
are not allowed in he UK for experimentals even navi
gation lights are regarded as superfluent. That's a policy that assumes that,
since it is not allowed, everybody will be home before dark. Same thing for IMC
flying, since it is not allowed, nobody will end up in the soup. Reality and
the accident rates point in another direction. Since most of us fly for fun,
i can't really imagine that many pilots would choose to fly at night or in IMC
as a free choice. But better be prepared for the day it is needed!
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
----------------
Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://forum.okhuijsen.org/
Message 22
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Subject: | Re: Interior Paint |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Craig Ellison" <craig.ellison2@verizon.net>
Hi Jeff,
I did my interior with Zolitone. You can get it by the Qt. from NAPA auto .
It's easy to put on and then clear coat with rattle can. Expect I might
cover later but for the first shake down hours should be fine.
craig ellison
A205
All flying surfaces painted, waiting on FWF kit. Working on panel.
----- Original Message -----
From: "JEFF ROBERTS" <jeff@rmmm.net>
Subject: Europa-List: Interior Paint
> --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS <jeff@rmmm.net>
>
> I would like to know what others have done with regard to walls and
> doors for the interior. I been told by a local Long EZ builder that the
> proper way to go is with Zolitone. I can only find it being sold by the
> gallon for $55.00. I don't need a whole gallon. Has anyone used the
> Rustoleum product called Stone Creations found at your local hardware
> store? I wonder if it would hold up in the extreme temps in the
> cockpit.
> Thanks for any advice in advance.
> Regards,
> Jeff
> A258
>
>
>
Message 23
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|
Subject: | Any Southern California Builders |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "David Simenauer" <dsimenauer@cox.net>
I am going to be visiting Southern California (Laguna Niguel) the first weekend
in December. I live in the Washington, D.C. area. I was wondering if anyone
lives in Southern California and would be interested in a short visit from a relatively
new builder just to share ideas in person. I learn a lot by actually
seeing what others are doing. If anyone is interested you can contact me off
forum.
Thanks,
Dave Simenauer
A101 Trigear
Message 24
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--> Europa-List message posted by: SPurpura@aol.com
IS Shell VSX-4 EVEN AVAILABLE? COULDN'T LOCATE ANY THROUGH SHELL STATIONS OR
THE REGULAR SUPPLY HOUSES IN SOUTHERN CALIFORNIA.
SAM N77EU
Message 25
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Subject: | RE: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges |
for Permit
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Brad Newell" <wendigo@olympus.net>
For what it's worth...
There is NO substitute for actual instrument practice. Getting the
instrument rating is just a license to practice. New folks, even with a
rating, should find someone VERY experienced, with a well equipped aircraft,
and fly it at night and/or instrument conditions a LOT. You don't have to
look for winter storms; just go out after dark where the ground is black
(probably not too easy to find in Europe). All it took to do in JFK,Jr.
was a hazy night over water. Admitted that he did not have an instrument
rating, but it was a classic setup. He had enough training that he was
immune, I guess (I think he was a lawyer). While we're on the subject, any
government policy that doesn't allow folks to practice with their own
equipment condemns to death many who blunder into situations that they are
not prepared for. Any kind of partial IMC should go to instrument rules
immediately. Everyone should have the Microsoft Flight Simulator and use
it.
Brad Newell
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of josok
Subject: Europa-List: RE: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges
for Permit
--> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
Even with the best prepared flightplan with the best available and actual
information it will happen to anybody who is regularly flying that he or she
will end up in IMC. Almost all of the deadly accidents over the last years
in Finland are examined to be due to loss of control in IMC. All of them
were experienced VFR pilots. Study shows that on average a VFR pilot looses
control of his plane in IMC in 45 seconds. To be able to handle your plane
in IMC seems to be pretty important. With that in mind it would be good the
lower the threshold to get sufficient experience and training. Plain IR in
IFR rated planes is too expensive, and will hold people off from getting
proper training. The result is not good for safety at all. Alternatively IMC
training ( The UK has it, congrats) in your own experimental, which then has
to be equipped to handle the situation, will save lives. It seems absurd to
me, that since night operations are not allowed in he UK for experimentals
even navi
gation lights are regarded as superfluent. That's a policy that assumes
that, since it is not allowed, everybody will be home before dark. Same
thing for IMC flying, since it is not allowed, nobody will end up in the
soup. Reality and the accident rates point in another direction. Since most
of us fly for fun, i can't really imagine that many pilots would choose to
fly at night or in IMC as a free choice. But better be prepared for the day
it is needed!
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
----------------
Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://forum.okhuijsen.org/
Message 26
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Subject: | Re: RE: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges |
for Per...
--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Good Day All,
Just my 2 cents from a place that allows VFR night flying. I have always
enjoyed flying at night. There are very few other aircraft to worry about. Those
that are up can be seen 50 miles away. The sun no longer unevenly heats the
ground causing thermals and bumpy conditions. With a basic GPS, a couple of VOR
settings, and poor man's IFR (I Follow Roads), I mostly have a very enjoyable
flight in these conditions.
I can't imagine that even in countries along the coast that have weather and
fog problems that there aren't beautiful evenings when you wouldn't love to
take your honey for a romantic sunset flight.
But then again, there are a lot of things that I don't understand.
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Just about to put the top on but still finding little things to do before
that.
Message 27
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "mau11" <mau11@free.fr>
Hello Jeff,
What method do you use for Zolatone applied?
Brushe, roll, or spray?
--|--
--------(*)--------
Michel AUVRAY
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Craig
Ellison
Envoy : jeudi 18 novembre 2004 02:50
: europa-list@matronics.com
Objet : Re: Europa-List: Interior Paint
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Craig Ellison"
--> <craig.ellison2@verizon.net>
Hi Jeff,
I did my interior with Zolitone. You can get it by the Qt. from NAPA
auto .
It's easy to put on and then clear coat with rattle can. Expect I might
cover later but for the first shake down hours should be fine.
craig ellison
A205
All flying surfaces painted, waiting on FWF kit. Working on panel.
----- Original Message -----
From: "JEFF ROBERTS" <jeff@rmmm.net>
Subject: Europa-List: Interior Paint
> --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS <jeff@rmmm.net>
>
> I would like to know what others have done with regard to walls and
> doors for the interior. I been told by a local Long EZ builder that
> the proper way to go is with Zolitone. I can only find it being sold
> by the gallon for $55.00. I don't need a whole gallon. Has anyone used
> the Rustoleum product called Stone Creations found at your local
> hardware store? I wonder if it would hold up in the extreme temps in
> the cockpit. Thanks for any advice in advance.
> Regards,
> Jeff
> A258
>
>
>
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