---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 11/22/04: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:32 AM - The LOC... (Matt Dralle) 2. 04:59 AM - Different brake trouble (Graham Singleton) 3. 09:31 AM - AW: Total energy Vario? (Europa (Alfred Buess)) 4. 09:58 AM - AW: Total energy Vario? (Europa (Alfred Buess)) 5. 12:28 PM - Re: Brake trouble (Steven Pitt) 6. 01:22 PM - Re: Brake trouble (Richard Holder) 7. 02:39 PM - Europa Interior (JEFF ROBERTS) 8. 03:04 PM - Re: Europa Interior (Alan Milner) 9. 03:29 PM - Re: Europa Interior (JEFF ROBERTS) 10. 03:40 PM - Re: Europa Interior (EuropaXSA276@aol.com) 11. 03:47 PM - Re: Europa Interior (EuropaXSA276@aol.com) 12. 04:44 PM - Re: Europa Interior (JEFF ROBERTS) 13. 07:49 PM - Andy Draper e mail (RK Hallett III) 14. 09:02 PM - Heat Barrier Material (Kingsley Hurst) 15. 09:16 PM - Re: Heat Barrier Material (Paul McAllister) 16. 09:55 PM - Re: Heat Barrier Material (Kingsley Hurst) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:32:50 AM PST US From: Matt Dralle Subject: Europa-List: The LOC... --> Europa-List message posted by: Matt Dralle Hi Listers, The List of Contributors (LOC) is just around the corner! On December 1st I post a list of everyone that so generously made a Contribution to support the Lists. Its sort of my way of publicly thanking everyone that took a minute to show their appreciation for the Lists. Won't you take a moment and assure that your name is on that List of Contributors? As a number of people have pointed out, the List seems at least, if not a whole lot more, as valuable as a building/flying/recreating tool as a typical your magazine subscription. We won't even talk about a newsstand price... :-) Won't you take minute and assure that your name is on the upcoming LOC? Tell others that you appreciate the Lists. Making a Contribution to support the Lists is fast and easy using your Visa or M/C on the SSL Secure Web Site: http://www.matronics.com/contribution or by popping a personal check in the mail to: Matronics Email Lists c/o Matt Dralle PO Box 347 Livermore CA 94551-0347 I would like to thank everyone that has so generously made a Contribution thus far in this year's List Fund Raiser! Remember that its YOUR support that keeps these Lists going and improving! Don't forget to include a little comment about how the Lists have helped you! I love to feel the love... :-) Best regards, Matt Dralle Email List Administrator Matt G Dralle | Matronics | PO Box 347 | Livermore | CA | 94551 925-606-1001 V | 925-606-6281 F | dralle@matronics.com Email http://www.matronics.com/ WWW | Featuring Products For Aircraft do not archive ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:59:05 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Europa-List: Different brake trouble --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton At 23:56 21/11/2004 -0800, you wrote: >As an aside, looking through the web literature for polyflo info, I >discover that the hose >bursts at 500 psi whereas the Matco calipers require 450 psi for maximal >brake force. > >I plan to switch to nylaflow with a/c grade fitting as soon as my fingers >thaw! > > >Ira N224XS about 70hr flying the best brake line hose is the one the racing car guys use, (motor cycle too) stainless braided Teflon. I use that now instead of nylon. Graham ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 09:31:28 AM PST US From: "Europa (Alfred Buess)" Subject: AW: Europa-List: Total energy Vario? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Europa (Alfred Buess)" Hi Ron, I have the same setup as Kevin, but in addition I have a pneumatic switch in my panel that allows me to switch between the T.E.-probe and the conventional static probe. My vario is a Filser SC-7. Not yet flying, no real life experience. Alfred Alfred Buess Laenggasse 81, CH-3052 Zollikofen, Switzerland Tel.: +41 (0)31 911 63 32, Fax: +41 (0)31 911 56 32 E-Mail: ykibuess@bluewin.ch Europa XS #097, Monowheel, Foam shortwing, Rotax 912S, Airmaster 332 CS -----Ursprngliche Nachricht----- Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Kevin Klinefelter Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. November 2004 23:16 An: europa-list@matronics.com Betreff: RE: Europa-List: Total energy Vario? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" Hi Ron, I have installed a stub for a removable T.E. probe in the fin, same as most sailplanes. I did it while constructing the fin, at the junction of the fin cap. I ran a conduit through the fin ribs. I wish I would have put an inspection hole up there in the top side of the fin, in case I ever need to replace the tubing. I am not yet flying and have not chosen a vario yet. Dave Anderson has one flying and to my surprise said it works well, even with the engine on. I thought the prop wash might confuse things. Kevin -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ronald J. Parigoris Subject: Europa-List: Total energy Vario? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" Is anyone planning on flying with a Total Energy Vario? What model and where are you, or have you put the Total Energy probe? Thx. Ron Parigoris --- --- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:58:59 AM PST US From: "Europa (Alfred Buess)" Subject: AW: Europa-List: Total energy Vario? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Europa (Alfred Buess)" Sorry - it's an Ilec SC-7 (not Filser) Alfred -----Ursprngliche Nachricht----- Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Europa (Alfred Buess) Gesendet: Montag, 22. November 2004 18:30 An: europa-list@matronics.com Betreff: AW: Europa-List: Total energy Vario? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Europa (Alfred Buess)" --> Hi Ron, I have the same setup as Kevin, but in addition I have a pneumatic switch in my panel that allows me to switch between the T.E.-probe and the conventional static probe. My vario is a Filser SC-7. Not yet flying, no real life experience. Alfred Alfred Buess Laenggasse 81, CH-3052 Zollikofen, Switzerland Tel.: +41 (0)31 911 63 32, Fax: +41 (0)31 911 56 32 E-Mail: ykibuess@bluewin.ch Europa XS #097, Monowheel, Foam shortwing, Rotax 912S, Airmaster 332 CS -----Ursprngliche Nachricht----- Von: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] Im Auftrag von Kevin Klinefelter Gesendet: Sonntag, 21. November 2004 23:16 An: europa-list@matronics.com Betreff: RE: Europa-List: Total energy Vario? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kevin Klinefelter" Hi Ron, I have installed a stub for a removable T.E. probe in the fin, same as most sailplanes. I did it while constructing the fin, at the junction of the fin cap. I ran a conduit through the fin ribs. I wish I would have put an inspection hole up there in the top side of the fin, in case I ever need to replace the tubing. I am not yet flying and have not chosen a vario yet. Dave Anderson has one flying and to my surprise said it works well, even with the engine on. I thought the prop wash might confuse things. Kevin -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Ronald J. Parigoris Subject: Europa-List: Total energy Vario? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" Is anyone planning on flying with a Total Energy Vario? What model and where are you, or have you put the Total Energy probe? Thx. Ron Parigoris --- --- ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:28:13 PM PST US From: "Steven Pitt" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Brake trouble --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steven Pitt" Richard Can you explain the difference between Dot 5 and Dot 5.1 brake fluid? Also can you confirm that it is synthetic fluid that I require for my Trigear (if you have not explained it in the reply above). Steve Pitt #403 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Holder" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Brake trouble > --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder > > >> I have decided to go Automotive - thanks to the help of Ivor Phillips of > >> this List. I had already messed up (testing) my master cylinder seals with > >> ATF so he provided me with new seals for the master cylinder, the callipers > >> and the Matco parking brake valve all to work with Automotive brake fluid - > >> I will be using DOT 5.1 > > >> I will increase the power of the internal spring a little by putting in a > >> flattened spring washer (maybe 1.5 mm thick) into each bore before the > >> spring ( which is followed by the piston ... Etc. I will be sure that the > >> spring washer is nice and clean ! > >> > >> Richard > >> > >> > >> > >> > > Richard, > > > > Do you have specifications for the seals that you used? Or better yet, > > manufacturer and part numbers? Thanks, > > Jeff > > Sorry I don't. As I said Ivor sent me a set of seals. He is on the list but > his direct email address is > > "ivor.phillips" > > And I haven't used them yet ! > > Contact him direct for lots of helpful advice. He is in London but I don't > see the Atlantic as a barrier for seals ! > > Richard > Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS) > Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax) > Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile) > SG12 8SH email : rholder@avnet.co.uk > Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, High Cross > PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford) > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:22:23 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Brake trouble From: Richard Holder --> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder > Richard > Can you explain the difference between Dot 5 and Dot 5.1 brake fluid? Also > can you confirm that it is synthetic fluid that I require for my Trigear (if > you have not explained it in the reply above). > Steve Pitt #403 I thought I put it in my email/ But I will try again. Firstly the numbering system is CR*P ! Normal automotive brake fluid is DOT 3, 4 or 5.1. Normal Aviation brake fluid is a Mil-spec number MIL-H-5606G which is similar to ATF and is coloured red. The seals in brakes are normally made for the use of one or other of these fluids, not both; and if you use the wrong one the seals will expand - yuk. This DOT 5 brake fluid is a silicone brake fluid which does not affect either type of seal. SO : The Mono calliper uses Automotive Brake Fluid and so does the single master cylinder that goes with it. When you use two of these master cylinders on the tri-gear Europa provide new seals for the master cylinders to suit MIL-H-5606G because the Tri-gear callipers use seals for MIL-H-5606G. Now the standard seals in the Jamar dual master cylinder are designed to use Automotive Brake fluid and thus with the standard tri-gear seals there is a problem. Europa have solved this by specifying DOT 5 brake fluid which is compatible with both types of seal. But it is expensive - 32 for a litre ! Bleeding can be tricky and I hate to think of bleeding at 32 per litre :-( Thus the decision to go automotive fluid which needed automotive seals for the tri-gear callipers (and the Matco brake valve if you are using it). Ivor Phillips has come up with the seals (including seals for the Jamar dual master cylinder as I b*gg*red them by putting ATF in there !) There is much talk of "synthetic" and "petroleum based" brake fluids. I think they are confusing and ambiguous so my terms are more sensible (allegedly !) I hope that helps - I have laid it out all logically. Call me if you need any more theoretical stuff. Call Ivor if you want the practical stuff ! Did I get it right Ivor ? I hope so - you were my teacher ! Richard Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS) Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax) Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile) SG12 8SH email : richard.holder@avnet.co.uk ++++++++ Please note new email address ++++++++ Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, High Cross PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford) ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:39:57 PM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Europa-List: Europa Interior --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS Before the factory web site went down there was a picture of what I think was the new interior of the USA demonstrator, but I'm not sure. It was a very bright red white & blue leather as I recall. Is their anyone out there that may have, or know where I could get a picture of that interior? Jeff A258 ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:04:36 PM PST US From: "Alan Milner" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Europa Interior --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Milner" Hi Jeff, I took a copy of the whole Europa website just before it was taken down. Do you remember which section it was in? Alan. UK 582T -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Europa-List: Europa Interior --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS Before the factory web site went down there was a picture of what I think was the new interior of the USA demonstrator, but I'm not sure. It was a very bright red white & blue leather as I recall. Is their anyone out there that may have, or know where I could get a picture of that interior? Jeff A258 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 03:29:18 PM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Interior --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS Thanks Alan, I really don't remember. I think it may have been in the builders link but I'm not sure. I remember someone here talking about that new interior on the demonstrator and using the Florida company that put it in. Thats when I went there too look. Maybe there is someone else out there that remembers seeing it. Thanks for your help, Jeff A258 On Nov 22, 2004, at 5:08 PM, Alan Milner wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Milner" > > > Hi Jeff, I took a copy of the whole Europa website just before it was > taken > down. Do you remember which section it was in? > > Alan. UK 582T > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of JEFF > ROBERTS > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Europa Interior > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS > > Before the factory web site went down there was a picture of what I > think was the new interior of the USA demonstrator, but I'm not sure. > It was a very bright red white & blue leather as I recall. Is their > anyone out there that may have, or know where I could get a picture of > that interior? > Jeff > A258 > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:11 PM PST US From: EuropaXSA276@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Interior --> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaXSA276@aol.com Jeff: If you look at my build site under the album "Sun and Fun" you will see a few photos of the US demonstrator interior. Mostly of the instument panel. In addition there is a photo of seats on an Europa that was for sale at the time. Color is in Gray. Very nice. I was told that it was done by a company in Florida that has fitted a number of Europas. You should contact John who is now working are Gulf Coast Avioncis or Bob at Flight Crafters for contact information. Hope that helps. Good luck! Brian ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:47:33 PM PST US From: EuropaXSA276@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Interior --> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaXSA276@aol.com Jeff: See if you can find what you need here http://forum.okhuijsen.org/modules.php?set_albumName=album60&op=modload&name=g allery&file=index&sid=8eaad13af3d0167517eb9305140ae2f0&include=view_album.php& PHPSESSID=0e0125fd8b1c272237b1571e33b9ca96 ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:44:59 PM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Europa Interior --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS Sorry, I clicked on it but nothing was there. I'll call Bob @ flightcrafters. Thanks, jeff On Nov 22, 2004, at 5:47 PM, EuropaXSA276@aol.com wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaXSA276@aol.com > > Jeff: > See if you can find what you need here > http://forum.okhuijsen.org/modules.php? > set_albumName=album60&op=modload&name=g > allery&file=index&sid=8eaad13af3d0167517eb9305140ae2f0&include=view_alb > um.php& > PHPSESSID=0e0125fd8b1c272237b1571e33b9ca96 > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:10 PM PST US From: RK Hallett III Subject: Europa-List: Andy Draper e mail --> Europa-List message posted by: RK Hallett III Would someone please send me Andy Drapers' e-mail address. Tried the old one at europa-aircraft without success. Thanks, Ralph ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:02:29 PM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: Europa-List: Heat Barrier Material --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" All, I am contemplating using heat barrier material on all areas on the forward side of the firewall. I like the look of Heat Barrier - Adhesive Backed ACS P/N 08-00600 in 12" X 24" sheets. Would those who have flying experience with this material confirm or deny the suitability of same for my intended use. If suitable, how many sheets do I need and is Thermo Shield Construction Tape ACS P/N 08-00602 the correct tape to use over the joins in the sheeting ? Thanks all Kingsley Mono Classic 281 in Oz. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:16:16 PM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Heat Barrier Material --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Kingsley, I used 3 packets of this stuff and it worked great. To seal the edges I used aluminum tape and so far it seems to be holding up well Cheers, Paul 140 hours and still grinning. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:55:58 PM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Heat Barrier Material --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" Paul said: > I used 3 packets of this stuff and it worked great. To seal the edges I used aluminum tape and so far it seems to be holding up well Thanks Paul. I think I will follow suit. Do you know the Part # of the aluminium tape please ? BTW - How is your XCOM radio performing ? Or did you get the Xcom Intercomm ? I purchased an XCOM 760 radio but haven't had the chance to try it yet. As an aside - just over two hours ago one of my sons (Andrew) went past here as a passenger in a 737 at 35,000 ft. I have a signalling mirror but no experience of how good it works so shone it on the aircraft. Andrew just rang to tell me there was absolutely no doubt he saw it. It was very bright and from his perspective, it looked like it took up the area of about three houses. Makes me confident now it will be a good gadget to carry with me in the Europa notwithstanding the marvels of EPIRB's etc. Just gotta get the Europa flying though, that seems to be the main problem. Do not archive Cheers Kingsley