Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 12:38 AM - Re: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for Permit aircraft in the UK? (Tim Butterworth)
2. 12:59 AM - Re: Brake trouble (ivor.phillips)
3. 01:51 AM - Re: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for Permit aircraft in the UK? (Peter Grant)
4. 06:05 AM - Closing up (Al Stills)
5. 06:14 AM - Re: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for Permit ... (RMRRick@aol.com)
6. 07:12 AM - Re: Closing up of trike belly question. (R.C.Harrison)
7. 10:46 AM - SV: Fitting Cowl (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
8. 11:17 AM - Re: SV: Fitting Cowl (JEFF ROBERTS)
9. 11:24 AM - Re: Heat Barrier Material (Paul McAllister)
10. 12:12 PM - SV: SV: Fitting Cowl (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
11. 12:28 PM - Re: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for Permit ... (Fergus Kyle)
12. 12:36 PM - Re: Closing up (N55XS)
13. 02:01 PM - Re: Closing up (Al Stills)
14. 02:44 PM - Re: Heat Barrier Material (Kingsley Hurst)
15. 02:55 PM - Rudder actuator thru Sternpost Picture Please (Tony Renshaw)
16. 05:16 PM - Re: Rudder actuator thru Sternpost Picture Please (rlborger)
17. 07:38 PM - Europa Fatality? (MJKTuck@cs.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for |
Permit aircraft in the UK?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tim Butterworth" <Tim.Butterworth@CVLUK.COM>
As with many of the responses to this, I am supportive of IMC and Night in suitable
homebuilt aircraft. (I actually gained a night rating during my PPL last
year and am sorry to not be able to retain that now I have bought a PFA aircraft).
It has long been my view that IMC increases safety, rather than decreasing it.
A number of issues/comments have been made on this listing re: engine failures,
only using the rating 'in emergency', perhaps allow it but with increased minima
and so on. The point I would make is that all of these comments are comments
about the RATING and nothing at all to do with 'homebuilt' v's 'certified'
aircraft. If someone is going misjudge a situation and have an accident, they
are as likely to do that in a 152 as they are in Europa. Therefore, the simple
question for me is to determine that the aircraft is capable of safely operating
in these conditions. The rest is pilot choice.
As an aside (but maybe related) - the ability to fly IMC is invariably a key element
of a pilot aircraft choice. At the moment, the restrictive VFR Only rules
for PFA I feel may discourage some who, even if they don't have a current IMC,
feel that they may want one later on and so err on the side of caution. By
removing this restriction from PFA, I think more people would opt for PFA flying
rather than the more expensive certified route and hence raise the profile
of the PFA. Just a thought.
Tim
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Jeremy Davey
Subject: Europa-List: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for Permit
aircraft in the UK?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
(Again, apologies to the non-UK folks - another local issue I need to
consult on.)
Many in the UK Europa community know I'm passionate about wanting 'extended
privileges' (Night and IMC) in Europas and other suitable Permit aircraft.
The PFA is looking into the possibility of pushing the CAA for Night and IMC
privileges for Permit aircraft in the UK. I've taken an action to find out
how interested the membership is, and this Forum seems a good place to
start!
Let's start by understanding what some of the constraints MIGHT be (nothing
is decided yet).
1) Obviously only suitable types are going to be considered. So no IMC
work in a Pitts S2. Stability will be a key requirement here.
2) Aircraft will have to be suitable equipped - including the right
instrument and lighting fits.
3) Permits allowing extended privileges will likely cost more to cover
the extra Engineering work.
4) Required inspection and build standards may well be higher.
Given the above, could I please ask PFA members to advise me either on this
Forum or privately to EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com as to whether you:
1) Would be for this proposal
2) Would be against this proposal
3) Would be neither for nor against this proposal
Thanks and regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative
PFA EC Member
"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is
possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation."
Tail done
Standard XS wings with mods underway
CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)
1200 build hours to date
Intended fit:
Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop
Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Brake trouble |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "ivor.phillips" <ivor.phillips@ntlworld.com>
> Firstly the numbering system is CR*P !
>
> Normal automotive brake fluid is DOT 3, 4 or 5.1.
>
> Normal Aviation brake fluid is a Mil-spec number MIL-H-5606G which is
> similar to ATF and is coloured red.
>
> The seals in brakes are normally made for the use of one or other of these
> fluids, not both; and if you use the wrong one the seals will expand -
> yuk.
>
> This DOT 5 brake fluid is a silicone brake fluid which does not affect
> either type of seal.
>
> SO :
>
> The Mono calliper uses Automotive Brake Fluid and so does the single
> master
> cylinder that goes with it.
>
> When you use two of these master cylinders on the tri-gear Europa provide
> new seals for the master cylinders to suit MIL-H-5606G because the
> Tri-gear
> callipers use seals for MIL-H-5606G.
>
> Now the standard seals in the Jamar dual master cylinder are designed to
> use
> Automotive Brake fluid and thus with the standard tri-gear seals there is
> a
> problem.
>
> Europa have solved this by specifying DOT 5 brake fluid which is
> compatible
> with both types of seal. But it is expensive - 32 for a litre !
>
> Bleeding can be tricky and I hate to think of bleeding at 32 per litre :-(
>
> Thus the decision to go automotive fluid which needed automotive seals for
> the tri-gear callipers (and the Matco brake valve if you are using it).
>
> Ivor Phillips has come up with the seals (including seals for the Jamar
> dual
> master cylinder as I b*gg*red them by putting ATF in there !)
>
> There is much talk of "synthetic" and "petroleum based" brake fluids. I
> think they are confusing and ambiguous so my terms are more sensible
> (allegedly !)
>
> I hope that helps - I have laid it out all logically. Call me if you need
> any more theoretical stuff. Call Ivor if you want the practical stuff !
>
> Did I get it right Ivor ? I hope so - you were my teacher !
>
> Richard
>
With the added incentive that Glycol based brake fluids DOT 3/4/5.1 (five
point one) are a much better lubricant and flows easier, So bleeding the
system is a doddle,
In my case, Just screwing a small funnel into the reservoir and filling to
the top to create a head of pressure was sufficient, Just crack open the
bleed nipples and watch the air being expelled,
Ivor
Message 3
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| Subject: | What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for |
Permit aircraft in the UK?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Grant" <peter@us-eurolink.co.uk>
Just like to say that I wholly agree with Tim's point on this issue. When
deciding to buy into the Europa syndicate I went through a lot of heartache
about whether or not I should put aside the (official) opportunity for IMC
flying. If it had been available for PFA aircraft then no such choice would
have been necessary.
There's no real reason to suppose that IMC flight in a PFA aircraft is any
less safe than a certified one, given the same level of equipment. A
current instrument pilot is likely to be sharper than his VFR equivalent and
so safer, I think.
Regards
Peter Grant
10 The Sidings, Horncastle, Lincs LN9 5UA, UK
Tel: 01507 523180 Fax: 01507 525888 Mobile: 07774 923160
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
This email is intended for the sole use of the addressee. If you have
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-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Tim Butterworth
Subject: RE: Europa-List: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges
for Permit aircraft in the UK?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tim Butterworth"
<Tim.Butterworth@CVLUK.COM>
As with many of the responses to this, I am supportive of IMC and Night in
suitable homebuilt aircraft. (I actually gained a night rating during my PPL
last year and am sorry to not be able to retain that now I have bought a PFA
aircraft).
It has long been my view that IMC increases safety, rather than decreasing
it. A number of issues/comments have been made on this listing re: engine
failures, only using the rating 'in emergency', perhaps allow it but with
increased minima and so on. The point I would make is that all of these
comments are comments about the RATING and nothing at all to do with
'homebuilt' v's 'certified' aircraft. If someone is going misjudge a
situation and have an accident, they are as likely to do that in a 152 as
they are in Europa. Therefore, the simple question for me is to determine
that the aircraft is capable of safely operating in these conditions. The
rest is pilot choice.
As an aside (but maybe related) - the ability to fly IMC is invariably a key
element of a pilot aircraft choice. At the moment, the restrictive VFR Only
rules for PFA I feel may discourage some who, even if they don't have a
current IMC, feel that they may want one later on and so err on the side of
caution. By removing this restriction from PFA, I think more people would
opt for PFA flying rather than the more expensive certified route and hence
raise the profile of the PFA. Just a thought.
Tim
________________________________
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com on behalf of Jeremy Davey
Subject: Europa-List: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for
Permit aircraft in the UK?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
(Again, apologies to the non-UK folks - another local issue I need to
consult on.)
Many in the UK Europa community know I'm passionate about wanting 'extended
privileges' (Night and IMC) in Europas and other suitable Permit aircraft.
The PFA is looking into the possibility of pushing the CAA for Night and IMC
privileges for Permit aircraft in the UK. I've taken an action to find out
how interested the membership is, and this Forum seems a good place to
start!
Let's start by understanding what some of the constraints MIGHT be (nothing
is decided yet).
1) Obviously only suitable types are going to be considered. So no
IMC
work in a Pitts S2. Stability will be a key requirement here.
2) Aircraft will have to be suitable equipped - including the right
instrument and lighting fits.
3) Permits allowing extended privileges will likely cost more to
cover
the extra Engineering work.
4) Required inspection and build standards may well be higher.
Given the above, could I please ask PFA members to advise me either on this
Forum or privately to EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com as to whether you:
1) Would be for this proposal
2) Would be against this proposal
3) Would be neither for nor against this proposal
Thanks and regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative
PFA EC Member
"If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is
possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation."
Tail done
Standard XS wings with mods underway
CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)
1200 build hours to date
Intended fit:
Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop
Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms
Message 4
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Al Stills" <astills@senecawholesale.com>
For the Tri gear builders, how have you closed the front opening on the bottom
around the front wheel. I know the opening has to be big enough to withstand a
2"
in the front gear but how have others closed it out to keep it from being a "drag".
Al Stills'
N625AZ
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for |
Permit ...
--> Europa-List message posted by: RMRRick@aol.com
Now we all agree what now?
Rick Morris
G-RIKS
Message 6
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| Subject: | Closing up of trike belly question. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi!
Alan.
I have a complete "belly" plate which covers the original Mono Wheel
well since G-PTAG was built as a convertible. IMHO it would help you
access the inner reaches of the tunnel area anyway. However with respect
to your question of closure I did lots of trimming prior to fitment of
the bungie so I could mark out conflict and remove it. This has left a
hole as small as possible but still a hole in the shape of the aft end
of the nose leg pivot arm.
Regards
BOB Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Al Stills
Subject: Europa-List: Closing up
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Al Stills"
<astills@senecawholesale.com>
For the Tri gear builders, how have you closed the front opening on the
bottom
around the front wheel. I know the opening has to be big enough to
withstand a 2"
in the front gear but how have others closed it out to keep it from
being a "drag".
Al Stills'
N625AZ
Message 7
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>
Jeff,
On Nov 20, you posted Nevilles excellent, as always, recommendation on how
to fit the cowls. One statement puzzles me, however:
>>>Now adjust for perfect spinner clearance and match. Remember 3/4 to 1
inch of clearance
between the cowl & spinner.<<<
Is this large clearance really necessary, and how does it correspond with
the 25 mm (1 inch) clearance between the front face of the prop flange (on
the gearbox shaft) and the front of the cowl, as per Andy's correction to
the firewall forward manual? If I assume Andy used as reference the common
Airmaster prop, its spinner extends 20 mm behind the front face of the
flange, which would give 5 mm clearance between the spinner and the cowl
front. Would this be too close?
If I use 1 inch back from the spinner, the cowl interferes with the
mechanical fuel pump on my 912S.
I am right at this critical stage now, so any good advice on what you or
others with 912S on XS have done as far as this clearance, will be very much
appreciated.
Regards,
Svein
A225 - now in Norway
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Fitting Cowl |
--> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS <jeff@rmmm.net>
Sorry Svein,
I meant to say from the flange as Andy indicated. I just measured mine
and it's 5 mm from the spinner to the cowl. It's a little tight when
your removing the cowls but the fit looks really good. Hope this helps.
Jeff
On Nov 23, 2004, at 12:45 PM, Sidsel & Svein Johnsen wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen"
> <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>
>
> Jeff,
>
> On Nov 20, you posted Nevilles excellent, as always, recommendation on
> how
> to fit the cowls. One statement puzzles me, however:
>
>>>> Now adjust for perfect spinner clearance and match. Remember 3/4 to
>>>> 1
> inch of clearance
> between the cowl & spinner.<<<
>
> Is this large clearance really necessary, and how does it correspond
> with
> the 25 mm (1 inch) clearance between the front face of the prop flange
> (on
> the gearbox shaft) and the front of the cowl, as per Andy's correction
> to
> the firewall forward manual? If I assume Andy used as reference the
> common
> Airmaster prop, its spinner extends 20 mm behind the front face of the
> flange, which would give 5 mm clearance between the spinner and the
> cowl
> front. Would this be too close?
>
> If I use 1 inch back from the spinner, the cowl interferes with the
> mechanical fuel pump on my 912S.
>
> I am right at this critical stage now, so any good advice on what you
> or
> others with 912S on XS have done as far as this clearance, will be
> very much
> appreciated.
>
> Regards,
> Svein
> A225 - now in Norway
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Re: Heat Barrier Material |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Kingsley,
The tape I used was Insul-Tape P/N 09-27420 from AC Spruce. As to your
other question I have the X-Com intercom and it works great. I did have a
problem with the first unit and X-Com just air mailed me a new unit, no
questions asked. Great service.
Paul
Message 10
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>
>Sorry Svein,
>I meant to say from the flange as Andy indicated. I just measured mine
>and it's 5 mm from the spinner to the cowl. It's a little tight when
>your removing the cowls but the fit looks really good. Hope this helps.
>Jeff
Thank you very much for clearing this up so quickly, Jeff, and for taking
the trouble to measure the clearance.
Happy building - firewall forward sure beats doing wing layups!
Regards,
Svein
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges for |
Permit ...
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
----- Original Message -----
From: <RMRRick@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: What's your position on Night and IMC privileges
for Permit ...
| --> Europa-List message posted by: RMRRick@aol.com|
| Now we all agree what now?|
| Rick Morris
| G-RIKS
Well, on the grounds that equipment failure is no more prevalent on
homebuilts than on CessPipBeech machines, it would serve to research the
failure rate of each class and if favourable present a case before the
authority asking why THEY aren't banned instead of you/us. It's the same
group of drivers groping through the grime. They won't back down of course,
but if samples serve, they'll shut up about it, and eventually quietly allow
someone else (PFA?) to permit it if viable.
At least that's the squirrel method in evidence here.
Good Luck
Ferg
A064
Message 12
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--> Europa-List message posted by: N55XS <topglock@cox.net>
Al Stills wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Al Stills" <astills@senecawholesale.com>
>
>For the Tri gear builders, how have you closed the front opening on the bottom
>around the front wheel. I know the opening has to be big enough to withstand a
2"
>in the front gear but how have others closed it out to keep it from being a "drag".
>Al Stills'
>N625AZ
>
>
Using the information supplied by Bob at Flight Crafters, I left the
opening, as is and added a firewall behind it. I plan to omit the
Europa firewall. The idea is to get all the hot air out of the cowl and
reduce the chance of overheating. Any additional drag will be
acceptable, in my opinion, if it helps cool the engine. I don't plan to
fly much cold weather, so I don't see a problem with the engine running
too cool. If it does, I can always add a cowl flap to control the air...
--
Jeff - A055
Wiring the panel. Rest of the airframe is pretty much done...
Message 13
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Al Stills" <astills@senecawholesale.com>
Thanks for the answers to my query. It's given me some "food for thought". I think
it will
all depend on how much air I'll need to flow through the opening and I won't really
know the answer to that question for a while. I've decided to go with the
Jabiru 3300 engine and will research some more before I decide on what to do.
Al Stills
N625AZ
Message 14
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| Subject: | Heat Barrier Material |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <hurstkr@growzone.com.au>
Many thanks for the info Paul and enjoy your flying mate.
Kingsley
Do not archive
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul
McAllister
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Heat Barrier Material
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister"
<paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Kingsley,
The tape I used was Insul-Tape P/N 09-27420 from AC Spruce. As to your
other question I have the X-Com intercom and it works great. I did have
a
problem with the first unit and X-Com just air mailed me a new unit, no
questions asked. Great service.
Paul
Message 15
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| Subject: | Rudder actuator thru Sternpost Picture Please |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw <tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au>
Gidday,
I'd like to request a picture please, of the access hole for the rudder
actuating rod through the sternpost and onto Graham Singletons rudder mod
if anyone has one? I am interested in the location and shape of the hole
through the sternpost. Any other photos of this area would be much
appreciated. Thanks in anticipation.
Reg
Tony Renshaw
Sydney Australia
Classic 236 B.B. Taildragger
Currently working on Rudder Pedals,
In but tight so more work to go on them.
Tail, Wings, Ailerons, Flaps Complete and Connected
Lower Fuse in Jig,
Tail Torque Tube installed with temporary timber dowels.
Mass Balance assembly installed and deflections sorted
Roof Panel between doors completed.
Photos at:
http://forum.okhuijsen.org/TonyR
Intended Engine: 912S CS prop (model undecided)
Instrumentation: Garmin 296 Colour GPS beneath an electronic Artificial
Horizon, one that I can trust for short periods IMC, to get out of a sticky
situation
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Rudder actuator thru Sternpost Picture Please |
--> Europa-List message posted by: rlborger <rlborger@mac.com>
Tony,
To answer your request:
> I'd like to request a picture please, of the access hole for the
rudder
> actuating rod through the sternpost and onto Graham Singletons rudder
mod
> if anyone has one? I am interested in the location and shape of the
hole
> through the sternpost. Any other photos of this area would be much
> appreciated. Thanks in anticipation.
Check my build site (see below in the signature block). Go to Year #3,
Q2, pages 4 & 5 and the first page of Q3. I have a number of pics
scattered about in those groups. I hope they help.
Good building and great flying,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, 914, Airmaster C/S
http://forum.okhuijsen.org/N914XL
(75%) Work on hold while I accumulate $$ to purchase the plexi, prop
and other parts that I'll never get from EMIL or E(04). Meanwhile,
working on Instrument, Commercial, CFI & CFII ratings for potential
career change.
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
Message 17
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| Subject: | Europa Fatality? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: MJKTuck@cs.com
Hi Folks,
I was reading a feature on the Falco website (www.seqair.com) and was
surprised by what it said.
http://www.seqair.com/Falco/FalcoPeople/Almeida/Almeida.html
<< I am very sorry to report that the Brazilian aviation writer Fernando
Almeida died as a result of an aircraft accident on July 5, 2003 at 10:30 AM at
Jundiai, about 50 km from Sao Paulo. Also in the aircraft was Fernando Del Nero
Landi who is reported to be in very serious condition. The aircraft is
reported as a Europa PU-LAN.>>
Does anyone have any details of the cause? Also how Fernando Del Nero Landi
is doing?
Regards,
Martin Tuck
Europa N152MT
Wichita, Kansas
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