Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:31 AM - Shoulder harness (John & Paddy Wigney)
2. 08:47 AM - Re: Shoulderharness mounting (Davidghillam@aol.com)
3. 09:17 AM - VS: Shoulderharness mounting (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
4. 11:18 AM - Re: VS: Shoulderharness mounting (RMRRick@aol.com)
5. 11:49 AM - FAA style Harness (irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu)
6. 12:01 PM - Re: VS: Shoulderharness mounting (Duncan McFadyean)
7. 12:41 PM - Re: FAA style Harness (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
8. 01:19 PM - Re: Experience with E04 re missing kit parts (josok)
9. 02:04 PM - Re: FAA style Harness (Ken Stribling)
10. 02:22 PM - Re: VS: Shoulderharness mounting (Fred R. Klein)
11. 05:17 PM - Re: FAA style Harness (Kingsley Hurst)
12. 08:29 PM - Site update (Paul McAllister)
13. 08:32 PM - Intercooler for 914 (Craig Ellison)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Shoulder harness |
--> Europa-List message posted by: John & Paddy Wigney <johnwigney@worldnet.att.net>
Hi Hans,
Some time ago I attended a seminar at Oshkosh which, amongst other things, stressed
the importance of correct orientation of the shoulder restraints. There is
an FAA document somewhere which spells out the details. The standard Europa
method does not comply with the recommendation which is to have the line of restraint
above the horizontal. The reason of course is to minimise or eliminate
compression of the spine.
I took 2 pieces of 0.125 in. aluminium plate (about 3 in. x 5 in.) and formed them
to the shape of the rear upper fuselage behind each seat and in front of the
bulkhead. I bonded a MS24694/AN509 1/4-28 countersunk machine screw into a
hole in each plate with Redux so that the screws were flush on the outer convex
surface. I then cut away the inner layer of glass and filler in the fuselage
and bonded the plates into position with Redux and a BID glass cover. A short
length of control cable (5/32" dia . as I remember) with cable thimbles and Nicopress
fittings was fitted to adjust for the extra length needed. It works fine.
Cheers, John
N262WF, mono XS, 912S
Mooresville, North Carolina
********
I have for a long time questioned this particular way of mounting the
shoulderharness - even more as it does not comply to recommended procedures
set forth in the JAR technical documents (or, for all I know, in FAA
recommendations). I seem to remember that the harness should not be routed
below a line going straight back from the shoulders (the angle not to be
less than 90 degrees to a line along your spine) , but may be orientated
upwards by a certain degree. I don't have access to this document now and
cannot confirm the figures.
Nearing the end to my build - I have still to mount mine, and am considering
hardpoints in the baggage comp. ceiling where to fasten the harnesses. Are
there others out there who have done it this way ? - Any viewpoints please ?
Again: I hope you will soon be better, Graham! Regards,
Hans Danielsen, #334 in Norway
********
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Shoulderharness mounting |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Davidghillam@aol.com
> significant decelleration.
> My injuries included a compression fracture of the first lumbar vertebra,
> unstable, and one fragment was displaced rearward 5 mm, compressing the
> thecal sac. Some very clever surgery involved removal of the body of the
> L1
Hi,
I am very sorry to hear of your injuries and wish you a speedy recovery.
I have heard good reports of Dynafoam energy absobing foam upholstery in the
seat base and wonder whether it could have helped. I have fitted it into my
monowheel but hope never to know how effective it is.
David
G-SHSH
Message 3
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| Subject: | VS: Shoulderharness mounting |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>
All,
Hans addressed an important point in his posting yesterday, which has been
on my mind, too, since the earlier discussion on this issue (check out the
thread on Matronics' site). I cannot see that a solution was offered,
however.
FAA's AC21-34 leaves one in no doubt that the existing fixation point for
the shoulder harnesses should not be used. See it at
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance_Library/rgAdvisoryCircular
.nsf/1ab39b4ed563b08985256a35006d56af/5214c6ffb14e1383862569b2005e77f9/$FILE
/AC21-34.pdf
It recommends between -5 and +30 degrees from the seatback perpendicular, at
shoulder height. What one may overlook is that not only is the pressure
acting down the spine from both the front and the back, resulting in twice
the compression load on the spine compared to if the harness were tangential
over the shoulder and then down the chest, but the force on the harness at
the back (which is multiplied by 2) is so much higher because of the sharp
downward angle, given the same restraining force in the aircraft
longitudinal direction.
Assuming that not only Hans and I are interested in exploring this issue, I
called Andy at Europa 2004 today and suggested that they do us all a service
by investigating if a hardpoint could be made to satisfy FAA's
recommedation, and then address it in their next Tech Talk column. Andy was
very understanding of the background for my question, and promised to have
his structural man take a look at it.
I am not aware that 4-point harness is a requirement, one diagonal shoulder
harness should satisfy the rules, I believe (have not checked!) but if a
fourpoint (or more probable, two shoulder harnesses attached to a common
point in the back) can be arranged, then all the better. I hope E2004 can
address this earlier rather than later, and maybe they can make some money
on a mod kit at the same time?
Regards,
Svein
A225 - XS trigear now in Norway
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: VS: Shoulderharness mounting |
--> Europa-List message posted by: RMRRick@aol.com
The PFA magazine had a very good article some time ago about this very
subject. Regardless of the foam used the standard belt design is a potential
killer. The Vans / Dynero set up meets the basic safety critria of a relatively
minor downward pull on the shoulders. It beats meet how the PFA accepts our
set up anymore.
Rick Morris
G-RIKS
Message 5
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| Subject: | FAA style Harness |
12/07/2004 02:49:28 PM,
Serialize complete at 12/07/2004 02:49:28 PM
--> Europa-List message posted by: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu
Greetings,
I put a micro album up on Steve's site illustrating my attachment which
provide
an FAA suggested angle. This is a design I derived from Bob Berube at
FlightCrafters
http://www.europaowners.org/modules.php?set_albumName=Harness-per-FAA-recommendation&op=modload&name=gallery&file=index&include=view_album.php
Ira N224xs flying
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: VS: Shoulderharness mounting |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
So design one that is better!
eg a "gantry" on top of the 'headrest' that routes the shoulder straps over
a higher point than existing.
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: <RMRRick@aol.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: VS: Shoulderharness mounting
> --> Europa-List message posted by: RMRRick@aol.com
>
> The PFA magazine had a very good article some time ago about this very
> subject. Regardless of the foam used the standard belt design is a
potential
> killer. The Vans / Dynero set up meets the basic safety critria of a
relatively
> minor downward pull on the shoulders. It beats meet how the PFA accepts
our
> set up anymore.
>
> Rick Morris
>
> G-RIKS
>
>
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: FAA style Harness |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Good Day All,
Ira, I went to the pix and then sat in my 1/2 built plane (plane noises soon
followed). I don't see the plus side of the cable coming from down that low
on the "D" window. It is still a downward angle from shoulder height. To be
level with shoulder height, the cable would have to be mounted nearer the
midpoint of the "D" window.
I think between the two ideas, the idea John came up with is better suited
to meet the problem and the FAA guidelines. But I would wonder how well the
attachment points would hold up during a sudden stop.
Not flaming....I just have an opinion. Any other ideas out in the world in
use?
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Just about to put the top on but still finding little things to do before
that.
Message 8
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| Subject: | RE: Experience with E04 re missing kit parts |
2.60 REPLY_TO_EMPTY Reply-To: is empty
--> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
Hi George,
The good news here is that E 2004 really seems to try to help where EMIL left off.
While i can understand your frustation, i think that you won't find another
plane, at least not such a nice one for the $ 14.000. being asked.
Of course the low dollar is a very important factor for the price increase. Just
back from holiday in Florida, i must say: Boy you live in a cheap country!
The other factor for the difference might be, that EMIL has been selling for any
price in the USA, taking losses for granted, leading to disaster. I certainly
hope that Mercedes, Audi, and not to forget Europa 2004 won't fall into
the same trap. Again, i feel sorry you and the others.
----------------
Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/
Message 9
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| Subject: | FAA style Harness |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ken Stribling" <ken@striblingranch.com>
Just for what it's worth my RV has belts that are almost directly back
from shoulder height witch is fine until you drop in a wind shear or do
a negative maneuver unwillingly and the harness is not super tight. You
tend to hit the canopy fairly hard with your head.
How about the restraints like on modern roller coasters???
Ken S.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
DuaneFamly@aol.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: FAA style Harness
--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Good Day All,
Ira, I went to the pix and then sat in my 1/2 built plane (plane noises
soon
followed). I don't see the plus side of the cable coming from down that
low
on the "D" window. It is still a downward angle from shoulder height. To
be
level with shoulder height, the cable would have to be mounted nearer
the
midpoint of the "D" window.
I think between the two ideas, the idea John came up with is better
suited
to meet the problem and the FAA guidelines. But I would wonder how well
the
attachment points would hold up during a sudden stop.
Not flaming....I just have an opinion. Any other ideas out in the world
in
use?
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Just about to put the top on but still finding little things to do
before
that.
Message 10
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| Subject: | Re: VS: Shoulderharness mounting |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
Fellow Europeans...
If I had ever doubted the value of this forum, those doubts would have been
put to rest w/ the thoughtful discussion in this thread. My most sincere
condolences to Graham Higgins and my hopes for his quick and full recovery.
on 12/7/04 9:17 AM, Sidsel & Svein Johnsen at sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no
wrote:
>
> I am not aware that 4-point harness is a requirement, one diagonal shoulder
> harness should satisfy the rules, I believe (have not checked!) but if a
> fourpoint (or more probable, two shoulder harnesses attached to a common
> point in the back) can be arranged, then all the better. I hope E2004 can
> address this earlier rather than later, and maybe they can make some money
> on a mod kit at the same time?
>
> Regards,
> Svein
> A225
On the question of hardpoints, it first occurs to me that I prefer the dual
shoulder straps, just from an ergonomic point of view, and second, that I
like the notion of four attachpoints in the "ceiling" above the baggage bay
as this would afford the opportunity to distribute (rather than concentrate)
point loads on the structure of the fuselage. As I ponder this issue, my
concerns are what impact loads can be tolerated, and I'm delighted to hear
that E2004 seems interested in researching this and making recommendations.
Fred
A194
Message 11
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| Subject: | FAA style Harness |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <hurstkr@growzone.com.au>
Mike Duane wrote :-
> Not flaming....I just have an opinion. Any other ideas out in the
world in
use?
Mike,
There is a Europa over here in Oz that has the shoulder straps anchored
to a fitting behind the channel in the door surround a little way down
from the original gas strut lower attachment point position.
Graham Higgins e-mailed me last Friday advising of his misfortune and
having contemplated the inadequacy of the standard shoulder restraint
for some time now, my mind was immediately made up to find an
alternative. Unfortunately, the aircraft aforementioned is over 1,000
km from me and it has changed hands twice. Notwithstanding, I will
endeavour to find out who did this mod, what I can about it and if it
was 'approved' but I am hoping Andy will come to the rescue as requested
in the meantime.
Graham and his wife flew out to see me for a weekend last May and I had
the privilege of almost an hour in the air with him. The smoothness of
his 914 /Airmaster Propeller combination was something to behold for a
piston engined aircraft and it breaks my heart to know the aircraft has
now been damaged not to mention Grahams personal injury. By all
accounts thankfully, Graham expects a successful recovery but it was too
close for my liking and it has left a horrible feeling in my stomach.
Graham is especially mystified by the sudden surge in power and has
asked the list for input from anybody in the know. I see there has been
little response to his actual enquiry so I am now hoping that list
members even if they don't know themselves, will sound out others in the
hope that someone can come up with a reason for Graham.
Thanks in anticipation, Cheers and Season's Greetings to all
Kingsley
Message 12
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Hi all,
I have finally updated my web site a bit and written up the story about getting hit by lightning. Its at http://europa363.versadev.com/ , just scroll down to the bottom and you will see a link to that page. I have also added a google search and a better index. I will probably write up a few pages about test flying in the next few weeks
Paul
Message 13
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| Subject: | Intercooler for 914 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Craig Ellison" <craig.ellison2@verizon.net>
All,
Sometime ago there was a request for info/availability of the intercooler kit for
the Rotax 914. Didn't hear the outcome. I contacted Europa 2004 and was told
the John Hurst developed it out of the Lakeland office. Does anyone have
one installed and running on a 914(does it work?) and if so is it still manufactured?
craig ellison
silverton OR
wiring panel/fuselage , waiting for
FWF, all flying surfaces painted
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