Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:52 AM - Re:Shoulderharness mounting (Graham Singleton)
2. 03:04 AM - FAA style Harness (Graham Singleton)
3. 03:22 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 12/07/04 (irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu)
4. 06:28 AM - Soar like an eagle (John & Amy Eckel)
5. 07:15 AM - Re: Intercooler for 914 (rlborger)
6. 08:25 AM - Harness (Fergus Kyle)
7. 11:47 AM - Harness (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen)
8. 12:08 PM - Re: Harness (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
9. 01:19 PM - Mop out access hole in top of tank. (R.C.Harrison)
10. 01:21 PM - Bonding on top (Ken Gresham)
11. 01:34 PM - Shoulder Harness Idea (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
12. 01:46 PM - Re: Bonding on top (DuaneFamly@aol.com)
13. 06:11 PM - Re: VS: Shoulderharness mounting (JR (Bob) Gowing)
14. 06:32 PM - Re: Bonding on top (rlborger)
15. 08:33 PM - Re: Re: Bonding on top (Paul McAllister)
16. 09:51 PM - Re: Bonding on top (Fred Fillinger)
17. 10:48 PM - Europa for Sale (Gerry Holland)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re:Shoulderharness mounting |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 07/12/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen"
><sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>
>Hans addressed an important point in his posting yesterday, which has been
>on my mind, too,
>Assuming that not only Hans and I are interested in exploring this issue, I
>called Andy at Europa 2004 today and suggested that they do us all a service
>by investigating if a hardpoint could be made to satisfy FAA's
>recommedation, and then address it in their next Tech Talk column. Andy was
>very understanding of the background for my question, and promised to have
>his structural man take a look at it.
Svein
I can confirm that the existing mounting will produce "wedge compression
fractures" in the lower vertibrae. My accident 5 years ago was somewhat
extreme but it does prove the point that re siting the attach point of the
shoulder harness would be a good thing
Graham
Message 2
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| Subject: | FAA style Harness |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 07/12/2004 -0800, you wrote:
>I think between the two ideas, the idea John came up with is better suited
>to meet the problem and the FAA guidelines. But I would wonder how well the
>attachment points would hold up during a sudden stop.
>Not flaming....I just have an opinion. Any other ideas out in the world in
>use?
>
>Mike Duane A207
I agree Mike
Thinking about it since it's mainly the compression that does the damage
adding some stiff structure, such as the headrest!?! ....to absorb the
compression load, then routing the attachment back down to a suitable
strong point might well do it.
Sitting on a bean bag (half full of styrofoam beads) also helps to absorb
some energy and is very comfortable.
Just an idea.
Graham
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 13 Msgs - 12/07/04 |
12/08/2004 06:22:25 AM,
Serialize complete at 12/08/2004 06:22:25 AM
--> Europa-List message posted by: irampil@notes.cc.sunysb.edu
On 12/7/2004 posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
>I don't see the plus side of the cable coming from down that low
>on the "D" window. It is still a downward angle from shoulder height. To
be
>level with shoulder height, the cable would have to be mounted nearer the
>midpoint of the "D" window.
Ah! This is a design compromise. The fuse seam is the strongest area for
a hard point.
And it had better be a very hard point as a 20g decel with a 200 lb
subject is an instantaneous
load of 2 tons. In my estimation, the unsupported fuse skin would not
likely support that kind
of shear load without delamination and failure.
The FAA allows for minor negative deflection. Mine comes out to be about
-10 degrees, much
better than the stock -75 or so degrees. I was told, as an aside, that
this is similar to the RV design.
Ira, N224XS flying with my design choices (for better or worse)
Message 4
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| Subject: | Soar like an eagle |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel" <eckel1@comcast.net>
Here is a site I think you will find interesting.
John
http://media.animal.discovery.com/convergence/spyonthewild/birdtech/birdtech.html
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: Intercooler for 914 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: rlborger <rlborger@mac.com>
Craig,
> Sometime ago there was a request for info/availability of the
intercooler kit for
> the Rotax 914. Didn't hear the outcome. I contacted Europa 2004 and
was told
> the John Hurst developed it out of the Lakeland office. Does anyone
have
> one installed and running on a 914(does it work?) and if so is it
still manufactured?
I purchased the intercooler package from John when Europa USA still
existed. I'm sure that you'll need to talk to John to see if he can
still arrange for additional units to be manufactured. I am not at the
point where I have begun work on firewall-forward so I don't have it
installed yet or working. John had one installed on their 914 powered
demo and claimed he could use full power in climb and cruise to an
altitude higher than he wanted to climb to. Said that he could cruise
at 12,500 at a TAS approaching 200 mph. Needless to say, I am looking
forward to getting back to work on my ship so I can enjoy the improved
climb and high-altitude performance. If you are interested, I have
some pics of the intercooler package on my build site.
The last time I spoke with him, John was working for Gulf Coast
Avionics ( http://www.gca.aero ). You can give him a call there
(800-474-9714).
Good building and great flying,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, 914, Airmaster C/S
http://forum.okhuijsen.org/N914XL
(75%) Work on hold while I accumulate $$ to purchase the plexi, prop
and other parts that I'll never get from EMIL or E(04). Meanwhile,
working on Instrument, Commercial, CFI & CFII ratings for potential
career change.
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
Message 6
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Again.........
Another thought to throw into the maelstrom:
[1] The reduction of severity in spine-compression accidents appears to
hinge upon a progressive collapse of the structure. Therefore it would seem
to me that we could support a device which failed relatively slowly while
absorbing much of the impulse. Not all ideas are necessarily bad if
structural failure is implied perhaps.
[2] There might be merit in a system which contains a swivelling arm
which raises the rear cable when tightened. The arm, if hinged below the
shoulders, would redirect the cable upward to a satisfactory angle from
below near the floor where a strong attachment point obtains. The arm would
distrort under extreme demand, but again that would absorb some of the
force. As well, this would permit some freedom of movement during the arm
movement.
Ferg
A064
Message 7
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" <sidsel.svein@oslo.online.no>
As Andy is not reading the Forum due to high workload (as per my telecon
with him yesterday), maybe you could all direct your good solutions and
ideas to him directly, at andy@europa-aircraft.com.
I feel confident that among us and E 2004, a good solution will be found.
Regards to all,
Svein
A225 - XS trigear - now in Norway
Message 8
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--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Good Day All,
Another point of interference with the cable from the rear top
fuselage.....it may not have any problem on the pilot side, but when looking on
the
copilot/passenger side, from the top of the headrest (still below most shoulder
levels), the attachment point would have to be at the juncture of the top of the
"D" wall and the top of the fuselage in order to clear the fuel filler.
We may have to accept a combination of harness attach point lower than
optimum and some impact cushioning foam.
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Just about to put the top on but still finding little things to do before
that.
Message 9
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| Subject: | Mop out access hole in top of tank. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Nigel
Since my scare of fuel starvation over Spain and subsequent discovery of
tank connector restrictions it's my intention to put an access hole into
the tank top for inspections of contents and mopping out. A friend has
made a present to me of an undrilled cover plate and clamping ring as
per the Avalec fuel gauge cover plate.
Although I am going to refit my Transducer type fuel gauge , since Tony
K has now fixed it, the procedure of strengthening the "invaded " area
between the head rests as if fitting the Avalec Gauge will still apply
in this case.(not withstanding that if I ultimately wish to go with an
Avalec gauge it would only need the plate drilling).
Have you the Club fuel gauge instructions and Mod number for me please?
Regards
Bob Harrison. G-PTAG
Message 10
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ken Gresham" <kgresham@dtnspeed.net>
I haven't been building since Feb. with lack of time being the main problem. Seems
much has transpired with Europa during my time off.
Anyway, I wuold appreciate all opinions as to what all could possibly be done before
top goes on and how to accomplish these things. Examples: Comm antenna?
and how to route, Nav antenna? how to route, Transponder antenna? how to route.
I noticed in a picture somewhere a baggage bay bulkhead bonded into bottom only.
What are the pos and cons? I appreciate all the help I can get.
Thanks,
Ken Gresham
A268 Tri-gear
Wings ready to close except for nav lights, gear on, and ready to bond on top
Message 11
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| Subject: | Shoulder Harness Idea |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Good Day All,
An idea for an alternate position for the anchor point of the shoulder
harness. Built upon the ideas already out there.
From the center of each headrest, draw a line aft, parallel to the
centerline until you reach the rear baggage bay bulkhead. Now up until you meet
the
top of the fuselage. A 3 inch slot through the rear bulkhead to allow several
"belts" of Kevlar to hold a steel "D" ring as the attachment point. Two of
three (?) Kevlar belts, 48 inches long, passed from behind the rear bulkhead,
then through a "D" ring, and then back through the bulkhead, then glassed to
the top of the fuselage running aft. You would have 24 inches of glassed Kevlar
supporting the attach point.
The angle would be on the plus side, the Kevlar would withstand the shock,
and if there were some peeling away from the top of the fuselage, as long as it
was not completely, this would aide in the shock absorption.
Also, his would be a fairly easy retrofit for existing aircraft.
No criticism is too harsh if well worded. The pluses and minuses, gentlemen,
if you please.
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Just about to put the top on but still finding little things to do before
that.
Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: Bonding on top |
--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com
Ken,
I have installed a lip on both sides of the fuselage just behind the "D"
window that will hold a removable shelf so that WHEN I have to go into the cave
back there I can do so a little more easily and with less risk of damaging
the fore/aft control tube.
Don't forget to run your flap motor control wires. Wires for your electric
fuel pump. Many people have installed for future use, a copper tape dipole
antennae up the stern post for a emergency/replacement comm antennae. So you
could run another antennae cable. What have you done about bringing in the
wires/connections coming from both wings?
If you check the archive you will probably find a few replies for this
question when it came up before from many other people.
Mike Duane A207
Redding, California
XS Conventional Gear
Just about to put the top on but still finding little things to do before
that.
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: VS: Shoulderharness mounting |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "JR (Bob) Gowing" <gowingjr@acr.net.au>
Duncan
I like this concept which avoids cables through the copkpit space. It may be
possible to make a structure that hinges and raises the belts above the
headrest level or make a pair of poles that can be raised after one is
seated.
Has anyone thought of altering the harness instead of the aircraft?
Could we not have a frontpiece or breastplate (or wide breast strap) to
cover the chest from which the shoulder restraining straps could be rerouted
to pass under the arms to the present top anchor point? This would stop
spine compression without changing the aircraft itself.
J R (Bob) Gowing, UK Kit 327 in Oz
----- Original Message -----
From: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: VS: Shoulderharness mounting
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean"
<ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
>
> So design one that is better!
> eg a "gantry" on top of the 'headrest' that routes the shoulder straps
over
> a higher point than existing.
>
> Duncan McF.
snipped
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Bonding on top |
--> Europa-List message posted by: rlborger <rlborger@mac.com>
Ken,
> Anyway, I wuold appreciate all opinions as to what all could possibly
be done
> before top goes on and how to accomplish these things. Examples: Comm
antenna?
> and how to route, Nav antenna? how to route, Transponder antenna? how
to route.
> I noticed in a picture somewhere a baggage bay bulkhead bonded into
bottom
> only. What are the pos and cons? I appreciate all the help I can get.
The short answer: You do as much as you possibly can.
The long answer: All the stuff in the build manual plus: antennas;
comm, nav, transponder and the coax to support them; fuel pump wiring;
stabilator trim wiring; lighting wiring, if installed; Battery, master
relay, relay wiring and battery cables, if installed in back; electric
flap wiring, if a tri-gear; ELT wiring, if installed behind bulkhead;
ventilation, if you go that route; fuel drains, if installed as per
Europa Factory Mod 33. As much other wiring as you can.
I installed Bob Archer antennas. Comm antenna in the tail. A pair of
Nav antennas in the upper and lower fuselage. Transponder antenna
attached low on the back side of the stab mass balance containment
structure. Actually, you can get a good idea what I put in before the
top when on by checking my on-line build diary. See the URL in my
signature block.
I think that I was a bit premature in putting the top on. Perhaps I
should have installed the baggage bay bulkhead and associated
hardware/electrical first.
I'm sure that others will be able to add to this.
Good building and great flying,
Bob Borger
Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, 914, Airmaster C/S
http://www.europaowners.org/N914XL
(75%) Work on hold while I accumulate $$ to purchase the plexi, prop
and other parts that I'll never get from EMIL or E(04). Meanwhile,
working on Instrument, Commercial, CFI & CFII ratings for potential
career change.
3705 Lynchburg Dr.
Corinth, TX 76208
Home: 940-497-2123
Cel: 817-992-1117
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Bonding on top |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Ken,
Take a look at http://europa363.versadev.com/ under June 2001, you will see
a check list.. I did have to change a few things recently. I had to move
the transponder antenna down the back onto the floor behind the mass balance
arm and I had to move the VOR / Localizer antenna to the roof to get the
localizer to work properly. The comm., VOR & transponder antenna's were all
made by Bob Archer.
If you have the aircraft set up securely in a cradle you can do leave off
bonding on the top for quite a while. I did all of the wing incident setups
and flap setup before putting the top on.
To give you some idea, I found it an easier task than bonding in the cockpit
module
Paul
Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: Bonding on top |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net>
Ken Gresham wrote:
>
> Anyway, I would appreciate all opinions as to what all could
> possibly be done before top goes on and how to accomplish these
> things. Examples: Comm antenna? and how to route, Nav antenna?
> how to route, Transponder antenna?
Antenna coax should be routed for shortest lengths, as signal loss per
foot is not linear but logarithmic. Rule #2 is avoid any sharp bends,
like an inch or less in radius. Avionics install manuals generally
caution against bundling various coax together, and bundling coax
within a wire bundle containing noisy, high current 14V feeds - Rule
#3. Although, peek at the innards of typical installs in airplanes,
including factory installations, and you might find they tend to
ignore #3 and usually get away with it.
A given installation may eventually have to bring all wires to the
panel in close proximity, so the way I've done it is wire the coax so
I can move it later if need be, given limited access issues when
everything's all glued up.
A handy way of affixing coax to fiberglass is with nylon,
self-adhesive squares which accept a ty-wrap to secure a wire. Peel
off the protective tape, and affix it with minute-cure, 2-part epoxy
like from Wal-Mart. Many sources for such fasteners, but one is
www.allelectronics.com. Search on Cable Ties. To make good use of
the flat shipping charge, stock up on BNC connectors, coax, affordable
multi-conductor cable, shrink tubing in many colors/sizes, fuses, and
switches. Check out their oddball stuff, like one time for a few $
they had these almost lima-bean sized, rubber case flashlights you
attach to your key ring. A really high-intensity LED with a seemingly
forever battery; you just squeeze the bean to operate. Why such
clever little items tend to show up mostly in pure electronics surplus
houses like allelectronics vs. Wal-Mart for more $ ending in .96 cents
I've never yet figured!
Reg,
Fred F.
Message 17
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland <gnholland@onetel.com>
This advert appeared in The Hangar classifieds:
Europa Trigear Kit.
Main Website - http://www.thehangar.co.uk
http://www.thehangar.co.uk/cgi-bin/classifieds/classifieds.pl?search_and_dis
play_db_button=on&db_id=5256&query=retrieval
Regards
Gerry
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