---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 12/11/04: 19 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:05 AM - Re: Classic stainless exhaust & engine ring mount (nigel charles) 2. 04:28 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 12/10/04 (Graham Singleton) 3. 08:52 AM - Flight Time (Dww0708@aol.com) 4. 09:11 AM - Re: Flight Time (David Simenauer) 5. 09:17 AM - Trial Fitting Cockpit Module (David Simenauer) 6. 09:26 AM - New Micro-air Avionics tranceiver fitted. (Alan Stewart) 7. 09:38 AM - Re: Calculating Maintenance Time (Fred Fillinger) 8. 10:12 AM - Bonding on top (Ken Gresham) 9. 11:00 AM - Time - a diversion (Fergus Kyle) 10. 01:11 PM - Re: Trial Fitting Cockpit Module (josok) 11. 02:01 PM - Re: Bonding on top (DuaneFamly@aol.com) 12. 02:27 PM - Re: Bonding on top (N55XS) 13. 02:33 PM - Re: Bonding on top (N55XS) 14. 02:35 PM - Re: Calculating Maintenance Time (N55XS) 15. 07:45 PM - Tube dimensions (Paul McAllister) 16. 07:49 PM - Bolt lenghts (Paul McAllister) 17. 08:37 PM - Season's Greetings (Cliff Shaw) 18. 09:03 PM - Season's Greetomgs (Cliff Shaw) 19. 10:26 PM - Re: New Micro-air Avionics tranceiver fitted. (Fred Fillinger) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:05:47 AM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Classic stainless exhaust & engine ring mount --> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" Hi Pete >Nigel just a thought as I hit the button. It does have a heater muff on it doesn't it.< Sorry I cut it off to save weight. However it would be cheap and easy to have another put on. Chris Piper (who makes them down at Tiverton) would help you out I am sure. Regards Nigel ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:28:18 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 12/10/04 --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton At 23:56 10/12/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Shoulder Harness - A Suggestion >Hi All, > >How about fitting a 1" Dia tube, bent like an inverted and flattened "U", > over each headrest ( like a miniature Roll Over Bar ) , that pivots about >the front top edge of the seat back and on either side of the head rest? >The height would be such that the horizontal top of it was about 1" above >shoulder height. It would fold back to the horizontal to allow you to sit >on the headrest while getting in and out, as usual. Ted Gladstone Nice one Ted! That would do it. Typically well thought out innovation that one has come to expect from you! What about anchoring the straps to this then have fixed straps to transfer the loads back to the fuselage? Have you got clearance on the door strut mod yet? Graham ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:52:40 AM PST US From: Dww0708@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Flight Time --> Europa-List message posted by: Dww0708@aol.com Flight Time ( TOTAL TIME ) the time from wheels leave the ground till wheels touch down. That would make a point for the weight on wheels type hobbs meter. I wouldnot calculate my fuel burn on flight time. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:47 AM PST US From: "David Simenauer" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flight Time --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Simenauer" Not sure what this post means but the flight time that you put in your log book (at least in the US) starts at the time the aircraft begins moving for the purpose of flight (taxiing to the hangar for service is not flight time) until it comes to a final stop. This is duration of time. The time given in this post is time in service which is what is counted for maintenance and service. ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Europa-List: Flight Time > --> Europa-List message posted by: Dww0708@aol.com > > Flight Time ( TOTAL TIME ) the time from wheels leave the ground till > wheels touch down. That would make a point for the weight on wheels type hobbs > meter. I wouldnot calculate my fuel burn on flight time. > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 09:17:25 AM PST US From: "David Simenauer" Subject: Europa-List: Trial Fitting Cockpit Module --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Simenauer" I am at the point where I need to "trial fit" the cockpit module in the fuselage. I have sanded off a lot of excess glue which has made it fit better. But I cannot seem to get a snug fit between the front of the module and the firewall. After sanding off as much excess glue as I am comfortable with, neither the module nor the firewall seem to be completely straight. This leaves a long gap at certain points. Is there something that should and can be done about this. I'm concerned about over sanding and causing structural problems. Thanks, Dave Simenauer A101 XS Trigear ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:26:31 AM PST US From: "Alan Stewart" Subject: Europa-List: New Micro-air Avionics tranceiver fitted. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Stewart" After many years of intermittently perfect/awful radio service, I've now retired my Terra Tranceiver, which is destined to become just an attractive? (expensive) panel feature. I've fitted the new Micro-air transceiver and am getting 5/5 on the ground. (It wasn't really safe to fly today due local fog) Unfortunately, with the engine running there is a 'rev-related' howl, both on transmit and receive which is quite loud and distracting. Is there a simple solution to this ? Should I have an 'electrical choke' fitted into the circuit, or should I attempt to achieve 100% shielding of all wires and connectors for the unit. (There is in fact an exposed area around a 'D' connector) ? Does anyone have special knowledge or wiring expertise, or sell equipment which may resolve my issue ? Thanks for any advice. Alan ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:38:04 AM PST US From: "Fred Fillinger" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Calculating Maintenance Time --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" Steve Crimm wrote: > > Evening All, > > I would be interested in hearing how everyone calculates maintenance > time? In my previous life flying helicopters we had two Hobbs meters. > One for maintenance based on actual flight time. The other was for total > running time that we used for customer billing purposes. > > With my Grand Rapids EIS is appears to gather time based on oil > pressure, so how does everyone else do it? > I have a Taskem digital tach, which records time if the prop if spinning. U.S. rules for amateur-built A/C are fuzzy (an endless logical loop) as to whether "time in service" needs to be recorded in maintenance logs at all, but if it is, the rules do say that time in service begins when the wheels leave the runway and ends when they touch down, an example of FAA not enforcing every last rule. Practically, Hobbs time -- engine running -- is useful for logging flight time, as it more closely reflects how that time is clocked. And for maintenance of production aircraft, it's cheaper in ownership costs and thus common to use tach time, as it's proportional to RPM. So...anything from Post-It notes on the fridge to a strain-gauge switch on the gear! Simplest is clocking when master switch is on, but one should have an alarm circuit in case the master were to be left on. A handy item anyway, but requiring some circuit design. Hmm...wonder if one could kludge that around a 10-cent, CMOS quad NAND gate chip, including a time delay before alarm goes off? Might even have two gates left over to make it flash or a pulsing chime like in our cars.... Reg, Fred F. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:12:31 AM PST US From: "Ken Gresham" Subject: Europa-List: Bonding on top --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ken Gresham" Many thanks to all who responded to my query. All responses have been saved for reference. The build so far has been straightforward and easy, but at this stage there seems so much to consider all at once that I find myself having difficulty narrowing the scope of the project to one task at a time. Physically building the plane is not the hard part for me, it's the decisions about things that are subjective, such as where to place antennaes and routing of wiring. One of my problems is that no one in my locall EAA chapter has any interest in my project, or any project for that matter. All of you on this list are a great source of knowledge and inspiration, though sometimes all of the diverse opinions make it harder to know which way to go. I don't get on the list very often but I am lurking out here reading all the correspondence. I'll probably be asking a lot more questions frm now on. Patience please! Thanks again, Ken Gresham Delavan, IL A268 Tri-gear Flying surfaces built, wings ready to close (except for wiring), cockpit module in, and gear on. working on all to do before bonding on top. ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:00:28 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Europa-List: Time - a diversion --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" Cheers, As you may have guessed, I'm not too keen on perfection as the 'ruling' authority sees it. Elapsed Time is what the Pilot-in-Command calls it, not what some lower-grade mandarin deems it to be. For instance, counter any complaint he has by asking him what "pilot in command" means. Here in Canada they don't know what the term means. Ask your authority to define it - you may be surprised. The pilot in command is responsible for the aircraft, crew, passengers and cargo during flight (or he was for the first hundred years or so of powered flight. Flight is defined as the time when the aircarft is moving for the purpose of flight until the first exit is opened for the purpose of disembarking - even if it's halfway up an eighty foot oak. That's what responsibility pay is. If the pilot runs off the taxiway but it's not flight time, then the tower should pay. If some grunt wants to designate 'propeller' time, or 'meal' time that's OK - but we shouldn't let them mess with "flight" time - that's when flyers fly. Ferg A064 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:56 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: RE: Trial Fitting Cockpit Module From: "josok" 2.60 REPLY_TO_EMPTY Reply-To: is empty --> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" As in mine, there remains gap, widening with height, between the firewall and the cockpit module. However, this is normal according to the manual, chapter 17 step 2: "You may find that there is a tapered gap between the front of the cockpit module centre tunnel and the firewall; this is acceptable, but ensure that the gap is filled with Araldite 420/flox." Never sand glass away! Regards, Jos Okhuijsen ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:01:57 PM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Bonding on top --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com Ken, I have had the same problem with my local EAA group....they talk a lot about what they built way back when but are too old to really want to think of anything new. I started to check out other EAA groups nearby and found one just an hour south of my location that has a much younger crowd that's still enthusiastic about building. Plus they meet at their local airport, so I get to fly there every third month to stay current. Are you using the DAR program? I have had problems locally with this also. Seems people have found a way to make money in their retirement by charging people to inspect their project. Not the idea I believe was the intention when the FAA pulled back from inspections. You can still get the FAA people to come out to inspect, you just need to schedule it about a year ahead. Do Not Archive Mike Duane A207 Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Just about to put the top on but still finding little things to do before that. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:27:07 PM PST US From: N55XS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Bonding on top --> Europa-List message posted by: N55XS Ken Gresham wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Ken Gresham" > > Many thanks to all who responded to my query. All responses have been saved for reference. The build so far has been straightforward and easy, but at this stage there seems so much to consider all at once that I find myself having difficulty narrowing the scope of the project to one task at a time. Physically building the plane is not the hard part for me, it's the decisions about things that are subjective, such as where to place antennaes and routing of wiring. One of my problems is that no one in my locall EAA chapter has any interest in my project, or any project for that matter. All of you on this list are a great source of knowledge and inspiration, though sometimes all of the diverse opinions make it harder to know which way to go. I don't get on the list very often but I am lurking out here reading all the correspondence. I'll probably be asking a lot more questions frm now on. Patience please! > >Thanks again, > >Ken Gresham >Delavan, IL >A268 Tri-gear >Flying surfaces built, wings ready to close (except for wiring), cockpit module in, and gear on. working on all to do before bonding on top. > > > > Ken, Like most of the major "milestones", such as bonding cockpit module, closing the wings and gluing in windscreens, bonding the top on is a scary thing. That is, until you do it, Then you ask yourself, "what was the big deal". It's really not that hard. Just takes a bit of planning. I did all the landing gear reinforcement in the rear of the CP module, before bonding the top on. Gaining access to install the gear, ribs and other things in the back of the airplane were just not that big a deal. Triple check that you've done everything you can in the tail section and give it a go... -- Jeff - A055 Almost ready to paint the airframe... Builders Log: http://www.N55XS.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:33:41 PM PST US From: N55XS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Bonding on top --> Europa-List message posted by: N55XS DuaneFamly@aol.com wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com > >Ken, > >I have had the same problem with my local EAA group....they talk a lot about >what they built way back when but are too old to really want to think of >anything new. I started to check out other EAA groups nearby and found one just >an hour south of my location that has a much younger crowd that's still >enthusiastic about building. Plus they meet at their local airport, so I get to >fly there every third month to stay current. > >Are you using the DAR program? I have had problems locally with this also. >Seems people have found a way to make money in their retirement by charging >people to inspect their project. Not the idea I believe was the intention when >the FAA pulled back from inspections. You can still get the FAA people to come > out to inspect, you just need to schedule it about a year ahead. > >Do Not Archive > >Mike Duane A207 >Redding, California >XS Conventional Gear >Just about to put the top on but still finding little things to do before >that. > > > > Mike, My own EAA chapter is primarily old timers who don't, or didn't even build. We are now working to give the chapter a face lift, as it were, to get some new blood in the group. Seems the membership slipped up and voted me vice president. :) Things are going to change a bit... As for FAA inspectors, our local guy is a member of our chapter and a really nice guy. He asked for 6 weeks notice, saying he could probably do it sooner... -- Jeff - A055 Almost ready to paint the airframe... Builders Log: http://www.N55XS.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 02:35:19 PM PST US From: N55XS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Calculating Maintenance Time --> Europa-List message posted by: N55XS Fred Fillinger wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" > >Steve Crimm wrote: > > >>Evening All, >> >>I would be interested in hearing how everyone calculates maintenance >>time? In my previous life flying helicopters we had two Hobbs >> >> >meters. > > >>One for maintenance based on actual flight time. The other was for >> >> >total > > >>running time that we used for customer billing purposes. >> >>With my Grand Rapids EIS is appears to gather time based on oil >>pressure, so how does everyone else do it? >> >> >> > >I have a Taskem digital tach, which records time if the prop if >spinning. U.S. rules for amateur-built A/C are fuzzy (an endless >logical loop) as to whether "time in service" needs to be recorded in >maintenance logs at all, but if it is, the rules do say that time in >service begins when the wheels leave the runway and ends when they >touch down, an example of FAA not enforcing every last rule. > >Practically, Hobbs time -- engine running -- is useful for logging >flight time, as it more closely reflects how that time is clocked. >And for maintenance of production aircraft, it's cheaper in ownership >costs and thus common to use tach time, as it's proportional to RPM. > >So...anything from Post-It notes on the fridge to a strain-gauge >switch on the gear! Simplest is clocking when master switch is on, >but one should have an alarm circuit in case the master were to be >left on. A handy item anyway, but requiring some circuit design. >Hmm...wonder if one could kludge that around a 10-cent, CMOS quad NAND >gate chip, including a time delay before alarm goes off? Might even >have two gates left over to make it flash or a pulsing chime like in >our cars.... > >Reg, >Fred F. > > > N55XS is set up so that the Hobbs runs when the engine runs. This is the benchmark I'll be using for maintenance... -- Jeff - A055 Almost ready to paint the airframe... Builders Log: http://www.N55XS.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:51 PM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Europa-List: Tube dimensions --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Hi All, Would someone who is not too far through their build mind taking a couple of measurements for me. I need to know the OD and thickness of the tube that passes under the cockpit module. In addition I need to know the OD of the push rod that passes through the middle of it. I am going to try and fabricate a seal between the two tubes. Why, well I get a fair amount of air coming from the spar area into the cockpit through this tube, and although my Mr. Leatherman boots seal off a bit of it, its not enough. The outside air temperatures here in the northern mid west are now at around 10 degrees F, and I expect it to get worse. Even a small amount of air from this area is pretty darn cold. I have pretty well stopped flying the aircraft until I can solve this problem. Thanks, Paul ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:49:25 PM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Europa-List: Bolt lenghts --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Hi all, Would some one who has there build manual handy look up a couple of bolt lengths for me. (Mine's at the hanger.) I need to know the length of the bolts that go through the head rest to secure the seatbelts. In addition I'd like to know the length and diameter of the bolt that secures the tailwheel spring. Thanks, Paul ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 08:37:58 PM PST US From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Europa-List: Season's Greetings 0.26 UPPERCASE_25_50 message body is 25-50% uppercase --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 09:03:59 PM PST US From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Europa-List: Season's Greetomgs 0.26 UPPERCASE_25_50 message body is 25-50% uppercase --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" John Are you still with us? Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 10:26:37 PM PST US From: "Fred Fillinger" Subject: Re: Europa-List: New Micro-air Avionics tranceiver fitted. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" > Alan Stewart wrote: > > Unfortunately, with the engine running there is a 'rev-related' > howl, both on transmit and receive which is quite loud and > distracting. > Should I have an 'electrical choke' fitted into the circuit, Probably yes, if not a faulty alternator regulator. > or should I attempt to achieve 100% shielding > of all wires and connectors for the unit. Probably no. > (There is in fact an exposed > area around a 'D' connector) ? Audio frequency noise can't enter there. I assume you're hearing it through headphones, and that this is alternator whine or howl. The only thing common to both operating modes is phone audio, but inductive pickup (wire bundle) into the low impedance phone audio line shouldn't happen. If the Rotax regulator is operating normally, the noise should be clamped by the battery to a low enough level. However, if it's entering through the Microair's 14V input, then we're common to both modes and a more "modern" power supply design therein not likely in your clunky old Terra is a possible culprit. The first thing I'd do is connect just the Microair to a 12V battery of some sort; it needn't be much, like even AA-cells, since we won't need to transmit. Then start the engine and listen on receive. If no noise, then at a store or online where they sell audio equipment for motor cars should have a choke/capacitor filter arrangement to insert into the 14V line. Just guessing that this might be your problem, as I can't recall other Microair/Rotax users have reported a problem. I'd thus be prone to slap an oscilloscope on your 14V bus to see the magnitude of the noise. Typically I've seen only about 200 millivolts on automotive systems, which should be silent in the junkiest of radios, but from what I now know about the internals of the Rotax regulator, anything can happen. I had to do this fix for an audio panel in the other plane, where it cropped up all of a sudden, but was a more muted "whine." Probably a bad diode in the alternator, but she still charges fine to this date. The problem there was line transient response in the audio panel's voltage regulator that ain't worth a hill of beans at frequencies well beyond 60Hz household hum. Much cheaper was just a little toroid choke and a tantalum (low series resistance) capacitor from my supply of electronic junk, and it works just like electronical theory says it should...'til the alternator fails for good. Reg, Fred F.