---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 12/13/04: 7 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:51 AM - Re: Shoulder Harness - A Suggestion (Edward Gladstone) 2. 04:42 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 12/12/04 (Graham Singleton) 3. 06:51 AM - Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 12/12/04 (N55XS) 4. 01:21 PM - Re: Harnesses - the ongoing saga (Shaun Simpkins) 5. 03:23 PM - Fw: Problems with submitting an e-mail to the forum (Rowland Carson) 6. 10:45 PM - DOTH Friday 17th Dec? (William Mills) 7. 11:42 PM - Re: DOTH Friday 17th Dec? (Bob Fairall) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:51:40 AM PST US From: Edward Gladstone Subject: Re: Europa-List: Shoulder Harness - A Suggestion --> Europa-List message posted by: Edward Gladstone Message text written by INTERNET:europa-list@matronics.com >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" >Why does it have to be "locked" in the vertical position? If it were >attached to a "mid-point" on the shoulder belt it would be prevent from >rotating forward by the belt; doesn't matter if its rotates backwards. > >Duncan McF.< > The bar would have to be at least 12 " above the pivot point and the seatbelt headrest attachment point is about 6" behind the pivot point. I think if the belt is used to prevent the bar from rotating forward there would be levering effect of 2 to 1 thereby doubling the force on the belt mounting point. After looking at the actual headrest in the aircraft I find that there is very little room at the door side of the headrest in which to rotate a 1" dia tube. I am now beginning to favour the ideal solution that I mentioned in my original message to the forum, in which a longer tube is used pivoted at about hip level. This COULD be allowed to pivot forward with the body during an accident, keeping the top of the bar directly above the shoulders at all time. The actual pivot points for the bar could be the fuselage side and tunnel mounting bolts for the lap part of the seatbelts. There would be no requirement for any further strengthening of any of the points - - - in actual fact I think that it would reduce the forces on the fuselage as the compressive force down on the bar would be taken by the equal upward force exerted by the lower mounting of the seatbelt through the same bolt. Only the forward force would be transmitted to the fuselage. There would have to be a lockable pivot at the top half of the bar to allow it to be rotated back while sliding in. You could even fix the padded seatback to the bar and have a shoulder height seatback and even a proper headrest if desired. Ted ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:42:36 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 12/12/04 --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton At 23:56 12/12/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Harnesses - the ongoing saga > >--> Europa-List message posted by: N55XS > >For those who are interested, I've posted my solution to the low harness >height, on todays journal at my build site. Very strong and works very >well... > >-- >Jeff - A055 Jeff the geometry to avoid compression looks good. However I think the plate will get a strong bending load in a crash like mine. Think of a 40G load pulling forwards at the top of the plate. 40 times the weight of your upper body. If the plate was straight and attached at the front of the headrest structure it would see more compression and less bending. Putting a flange on the edges would help to give more strength in compression too. I try and think in terms of pin joints at all the corners and attach points, then everything has to be in compression or tension. Graham ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 06:51:51 AM PST US From: N55XS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 14 Msgs - 12/12/04 --> Europa-List message posted by: N55XS Graham Singleton wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton > >At 23:56 12/12/2004 -0800, you wrote: > > >>Harnesses - the ongoing saga >> >>--> Europa-List message posted by: N55XS >> >>For those who are interested, I've posted my solution to the low harness >>height, on todays journal at my build site. Very strong and works very >>well... >> >>-- >>Jeff - A055 >> >> > >Jeff >the geometry to avoid compression looks good. However I think the plate >will get a strong bending load in a crash like mine. Think of a 40G load >pulling forwards at the top of the plate. 40 times the weight of your upper >body. >If the plate was straight and attached at the front of the headrest >structure it would see more compression and less bending. Putting a flange >on the edges would help to give more strength in compression too. >I try and think in terms of pin joints at all the corners and attach >points, then everything has to be in compression or tension. >Graham > > > > Graham, I considered gussets on each side of the front plate, or, even a couple of ribs on the back side of the rear plate, however my engineer friend assures me that any load that would bend the current design forward enough to negate its effectivness, would also rip the head rest right off the CM. That's why he recommended the large radius. At any rate, the deceleration that the gizmo will provide, should help avoid spine compression. If the airplane breaks... well, it's going to need repair, anyway, after hitting the ground and, assuming I survive at all... :) -- Jeff - A055 Builders Log: http://www.N55XS.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:21:04 PM PST US From: "Shaun Simpkins" Subject: Europa-List: Re: Harnesses - the ongoing saga --> Europa-List message posted by: "Shaun Simpkins" Indeed a nice installation. I'd suggest going all the way and putting a real headrest on to slide down over the harness riser. For serious crash protection a headrest is a must. There were two reasons that I was told that the Europa didn't have real headrests and a good harness routing: The first was access to the luggage area, the second was the recommended entry method - sit on top of the seat back, rotate inward, then slide down. Apparently everyone now just steps on the seat and lowers themselves in, or something like that. SS ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:23:01 PM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: Europa-List: Fwd: Problems with submitting an e-mail to the forum --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson Nigel Charels has asked me to forward this: >I am having problems submitting the following e-mail to the forum. >Their Spam filter doesn't seem to like it. Perhaps you could forward >it for me. Any idea why there is a problem? > >Regards > >Nigel > > >I have had several people ask why I am upgrading my Europa to XS >specification forward of the firewall. > >I have decided that although single ignition starts reduced kickback >with the standard starter, the problem is likely to come back later. >The idea of the starter failing whilst away from home base was not >something I wish to cope with especially as the starter is essential >to get the engine running. Removing the starter from a Classic >airframe involves removing the engine and subsequently the engine >mounting frame. >Whilst I was aware that it would be unlikely that the new starter >would fit the engine without interfering with the engine mount I >decided to go ahead and try anyway in case it was possible. I had >been told that the new starter was about 25mm longer but, as it >doesn't use spacers when it is mounted to the engine, it only >projects about 7mm further aft. However I found that the clearance >between the starter and the starboard engine frame fixing point was >already tight and 7mm was just not enough to allow the frame to be >fitted to the engine. Modification to the engine mount is not a >practical proposition so I have decided to go for the XS upgrade. > >Although this is expensive and time consuming it will have the >following advantages: > > >1. Prop clearance is improved by about 25mm. >2. Starter removal and replacement on the XS does not involve >engine removal. >3. The lower cowl is easier to remove when required as the >radiators are attached to the airframe and not the cowl. >4. Access to the rear of the engine is much improved as it is >about 100mm further forward. This makes fitting the carb heat kit >and access to the rubber hoses to tighten Jubilee clips much easier. >5. Using a smaller spinner makes prop balancing easier and >probably means less frequent rebalancing. > > >Nigel Charles regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson PFA #16532 | 740 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 10:45:47 PM PST US From: "William Mills" Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Friday 17th Dec? --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" Hi All Midweek DOTHers, Friday looks like the first opportunity weatherwise for quite a long time for a midweek DOTH fly-in. How many of you would be interested in a trip to Huddersfield on Friday 17th Dec. We have had several visits there and are made most welcome. Free voucher in Flyer and there is an excellent pub at the end of the field for lunch. Please let me know if you think you can attend. Best wishes, William ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 11:42:08 PM PST US From: "Bob Fairall" Subject: RE: Europa-List: DOTH Friday 17th Dec? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bob Fairall" Hi William, You may be interested in this that I received a few days ago ..... "Hello there - just a reminder to everyone that we're holding our now annual winter fly in on Friday December the 17th - in case you've not been to Old Buck EGSV we have 800m of hard runway, fuel, a great diner for food and drinks and a very very warm welcome. We're celebrating 101 years of flight... last years 100th celebration was a great day, so we're expecting another big one, everyone welcome. Landing will be 10 - and INCLUDES ALL DAY BREAKFAST FOR THE PILOT - and unlimited tea / coffee with that breakfast. 2004 PREMIERE - OUR AIRSHOW DVD WILL BE SHOWING ON THE BIG SCREEN ALL DAY... IF YOU WERE THERE YOU MIGHT BE IN IT.... Call us on 01953 860806 for any further details - Old Buck frequency 124.4" The info arrived second or third hand and I've not yet checked it out, but it may be an interesting alternative. Bob Fairall Europa Classic G-BXLK no 71 Europa XS G-CBXW (under construction) -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of William Mills Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Friday 17th Dec? --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" Hi All Midweek DOTHers, Friday looks like the first opportunity weatherwise for quite a long time for a midweek DOTH fly-in. How many of you would be interested in a trip to Huddersfield on Friday 17th Dec. We have had several visits there and are made most welcome. Free voucher in Flyer and there is an excellent pub at the end of the field for lunch. Please let me know if you think you can attend. Best wishes, William