Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:56 AM - Rotax 912S (Richard Holder)
2. 03:36 AM - [Fw: Aviation Feast on 29th December in Scotland] (Alan Burrows)
3. 03:47 AM - Re: DOTH Friday 17th Dec? (Alan Burrows)
4. 04:37 AM - Fuel Tank access hole. (R.C.Harrison)
5. 05:42 AM - RE : website for map of UK aerodromes? (mau11)
6. 10:29 AM - Re: Rotax 912S (Richard Holder)
7. 10:37 AM - 912/S Carb heat kit (Richard Holder)
8. 02:23 PM - Exhaust troubles 912S on XS (Sven den Boer)
9. 03:06 PM - allowing for paint (Paul Stewart)
10. 03:09 PM - Re: Exhaust troubles 912S on XS (Terry Seaver)
11. 03:37 PM - Re: Exhaust troubles 912S on XS (Cliff Shaw)
12. 05:46 PM - Re: Intercooler for 914 (Craig Ellison)
13. 11:27 PM - Seat belts challenge...... (R.C.Harrison)
Message 1
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
Nigel
In respect of the positioning of the banjos on a factory fresh engine.
I went to see another builder yesterday, Peter Field in Windlesham. He has
just hung his 912S. I took the opportunity to look at his carb banjos. They
both pointed forward towards the exhaust manifold. And they were sealed to
discourage changing their position.
I therefore repeat my suggestion that the factory should be told and
discouraged from doing this !
By copy of this email I am letting Europa and the Matronics Europa List know
that some 912Ss have been delivered with the banjos pointing forward and
that I have had a fraught time finding the resulting top-of-the-climb
misfire.
Best wishes
Richard
Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS)
Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax)
Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile)
SG12 8SH email : richard.holder@avnet.co.uk
++++++++ Please note new email address ++++++++
Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, High Cross
PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford)
Message 2
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Subject: | [Fwd: Aviation Feast on 29th December in Scotland] |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" <alan@kestrel-insurance.com>
This would perhaps make a nice change for anyone wanting to fly over the
holiday period. Anyone fancy going?
(Click at the bottom line if you want added to the RFFCC mailing list)
Many happy Festive Season landings to you all
Alan
G-CBWF
If you have received this as an e-mail click here for the latest
version of www.rffcc.com/041229
A Real Feast to celebrate The Days Getting Longer
A Feast that won't be cancelled
On 29th December 2004 the first half of the first decade of the new
Millennium will be almost over, the days will be getting longer - and the
Real Flying and Feasting Club of Caledonia will be facilitating a real
Feast to celebrate. If you are interested in receiving an invitation click
here.
The Feast will be at one of these locations - every one of which is
friendly:
The Isle of Bute;
Castle Kennedy;
Fife;
Oban; or
Dundee (only if none of the above airports is VFR).
commencing at 11:30am. The actual location will be chosen on the day
itself according to the weather and invitees notified by text message or
e-mail. Anyone planning to arrive in a Learjet without thrust reversers
may find it of benefit to review the runway characteristics at Bute prior
to landing. Should you decide against landing at Bute, Glasgow is only 15
miles away and we'll pick you up from there.
Dundee is our port of last resort on this occasion but it has an
excellent ILS approach - and if Dundee is selected the Feast will be at
the Marmalade Pot public house.
If you are a pilot we want you to come - see www.rffcc.com/basics for
the details.
Remember - RFFCC's Feasts are NEVER cancelled.
Normally RFFCC's Feasts are entirely BYO but on this occasion, in
recognition of the extreme cold and of the weather conditions generally,
we will provide hot non-alcoholic toddies and pieces of haggis. But it is
still BYO - all we are providing is a sip and a snack.
If you are flying from outside Scotland, the classiest way to do it is
to fly to either Dundee or Strathallan on the 28th and stay at Gleneagles
Hotel (phone +44 1764 66 2231) the night before the feast. Gleneagles
really excels itself in the festive season, and as at noon GMT on 9th
December there were still rooms available for the 28th and the 29th
December 2004 (mind you, Gleneagles is not cheap!). Gleneagles is only 5
miles from Strathallan and they'll pick you up there - and the Real Flying
and Feasting Club of Caledonia can arrange permission for you to land at
Strathallan at your own risk. Or you can land at Dundee and take a taxi to
Gleneagles. Or, if you are in a helicopter, Gleneagles has a helipad.
Read about our Feast on Sollas Beach Airfield in September 2004 at
www.rffcc.com/04sollas
Order of the day - 29th December 2004
10:30am The RFFCC barbecue is lit - fuelled by the finest Australian
Red Gum
11:30am Celebrations commence with the heating of the Strathallan
Haggis
12:00noon Presentation of Exceptional Flying Feat Certificates to
those who landed on Sollas beach in September
12:15pm Serving of the Strathallan Haggis
12:30pm Telling of tall tales of aviation derring-do
13:00pm The homeward journey or revelry or a nap (at individual
discretion)
18:00pm The evening Feast commences
Please inform others about this classy event
Please inform other people by printing this out and putting it on the
notice-board, or forwarding it to other pilots you know. According to the
event calendars on pilotweb.co.uk and flyer.co.uk and ukga.com there is
not one other Real Flying event anywhere in Britain between Christmas and
New Year - let alone a Real Flying and Feasting event.
----------
Rolling out onto final, runway 25 at Fife, 2nd December 2004
Mount Stuart House, Bute, 4th December 2004
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Message 3
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Subject: | Re: DOTH Friday 17th Dec? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" <alan@kestrel-insurance.com>
hello William
If I can ever get these brakes blead fully then I will be there.
Alan
G-CBWF
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills"
> <combined.merchants@virgin.net>
>
> Hi All Midweek DOTHers,
> Friday looks like the first opportunity weatherwise for quite a long time
> for a midweek DOTH fly-in. How many of you would be interested in a trip
> to Huddersfield on Friday 17th Dec. We have had several visits there and
> are made most welcome. Free voucher in Flyer and there is an excellent
> pub at the end of the field for lunch. Please let me know if you think
> you can attend.
> Best wishes,
> William
>
>
Message 4
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Subject: | Fuel Tank access hole. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! All
After my fuel line blockage and discovery of the obstructed tank outlet
connectors I have decide to put a top of tank access hole for inspection
and clean out purposes and maybe at a later date the use of a fuel gauge
sender.
I=92m given to understand that there is a requirement for about =BD metre of
10mm wide x 3mm thick PTFE Foam Sealer Strip.
RS catalogue has this stuff at =A355.18 plus VAT in 8 metre rolls. Which
is making my eyes water !
Does anyone have some left over from such a job or is there anyone
wishing to share in the purchase of a roll?
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa 337 MKI/Jabiru 3300
Message 5
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Subject: | website for map of UK aerodromes? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "mau11" <mau11@free.fr>
Hello Sean,
How are you? Have you made a good trip for come back home?
I am in hospital last week (new hip!) all is ok.
--|--
--------(*)--------
Michel AUVRAY
-----Message d'origine-----
De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Sean
O'Reilly
Envoy : jeudi 9 dcembre 2004 10:46
: europa-list@matronics.com
Objet : Europa-List: website for map of UK aerodromes?
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Sean O'Reilly"
--> <seanmoreilly@hotmail.com>
Apologies in advance to non-UK readers (unless you are able to help of
course!)
Is anyone aware of a website setting out UK GA airfields in map form
(with
AD specific info if required)?
Many thanks and compliments of the season,
Sean O'Reilly
Reigate, Surrey
Newish owner of G-BWWB (ex Mike Dolphin)
Message 6
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--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
Nigel
> Even if builders have the inlet pointing forwards, the fuel line can easily
> be routed away from the exhaust. I altered one of my aircraft to this
> configuration.The fuel line
> is still further away from the exhaust than the float chamber, which, being
> metal, will transmit much more heat to the fuel than will get through the
> fuel line.
Europa wanted insulation around the fuel hose. The fuel hose supplied was
stainless steel covered. It would not have been possible to bend the hose as
tightly as in your photos.
> Despite the above, which indicates that the builder should do everything
> possible to keep the carbs and fuel lines cool, I am not at all convinced
> that your misfire was due to the proximity of the fuel lines to the exhaust.
> When you consider that in a full power climb the engine is using about 27
> litres of fuel per hour, this equates to a velocity of about 10 inches per
> second in the fuel line. The amount of heat transferring to the fuel through
> a thick rubber fuel line under these conditions would be absolutely
> negligible,even if the fuel line was right next to the exhaust.
Sorry. This is NOT right. My misfire was at the top of the climb AFTER
levelling off and reducing power, while the exhaust was still very hot from
the climb. I agree that in the climb the fuel flow could be 10 inches per
second, but in the cruise it is a lot less. And with the s/s braiding heat
would have been conducted underneath the insulation once a hole had been
melted in the insulation. I have had no problems whatsoever at this stage of
flight since I changed the fuel system. The hose now goes OVER the carb to a
dash-pot that simulates the dashpot that is supplied on a certified engine.
New straight unions have been fitted in place of the banjos. And the s/s
braided pipe replaced by rubber pipe.
The problem didn't happen every time, and was minimal last winter, but it
often happened when banking left at the end of crosswind. The right hand
fuel hose had the melted insulation and of course that side of the engine is
likely to be warmer as the air flow is restricted by the oil dry sump tank
and its piping.
> Perhaps the cause was something else which you
> inadvertently cured when working on the engine.
I am not convinced as the problem IMMEDIATELY went away when I angled the
banjos backwards, and has not re-occurred since the whole fuel system
forwards from the fuel pump to the carb was re-made.
> Carbs and fuel lines that get hot after engine shutdown are more likely to
> give vapour lock problems making hot restart difficult, or causing engine
> failure after takeoff (after hot restart if fuel bleedback is not
> incorporated).
I have the fuel bleedback, and have never had a hot start problem.
> Perhaps you could pass my comments onto the Europa list.
Sure.
As an aside I notice that the standard installation is oil sump scavenge
pump to dry sump tank, and then from dry sump tank via the oil radiator to
the main pump and the bearings. This has left the dry sump tank containing
very hot (pre radiator) oil. What was the logic for that rather than what I
would have done on a rally car which would have been to put the radiator in
the line between the scavenge pump and the dry sump tank, which would have
given cooler oil in the tank.
Richard
PS I agree your figure of 10 inches/sec for 27 litres/hour through a 1/4
inch ID hose but that would be in the hose from the fuel pump. The fuel flow
in the pipe to the carb would be half that (5 inches per sec) and at my
cruise of 16 litres an hour around 3 inches per sec.
Message 7
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Subject: | 912/S Carb heat kit |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
Team
I have just bought this kit - it was described as the Mark III version.
Would anyone who bought this kit last year, or before, let me know :
Whether there was a temperature probe and gauge included ?
Whether there was a shut-off valve included ?
If the price was any different to GBP 195.
I ask because others on the list have mentioned both these items and neither
came with my kit, yet I believe it is still advertised at GBP 195 currently
on sale at GBP 175.
Reply direct to me at (copy and paste don't use the Reply button !)
rholder@avnet.co.uk
Thanks
Richard
Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS)
Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax)
Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile)
SG12 8SH email : rholder@avnet.co.uk
Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, High Cross
PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford)
Message 8
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Subject: | Exhaust troubles 912S on XS |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Sven den Boer" <svendenboer@quicknet.nl>
After starting the engine and a test run, the rh back exhaust pipe had left the
muffler and was =B4=B4standing=B4 on the edge of the muffler.
This despite installation according to Service Bulletin, with all springs still
attached.
Any comments and help welcome.
Cheers
Sven den Boer
PH-SBR
A168
Message 9
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Subject: | allowing for paint |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart <europa@pstewart.f2s.com>
Can anyone suggest how much to allow for painting when fitting
flaps/ailerons etc. We have sanded back the upper wing skins and rear
close outs so that the flaps and ailerons do not catch, but how much is
painting likely to affect this clearance?
Regards
paul stewart
G-GIDY
Message 10
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Subject: | Re: Exhaust troubles 912S on XS |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Terry Seaver <terrys@cisco.com>
Hi Sven,
We have an XS 912S with over 400 hours on it. This has been a problem
for us on a number of occasions. If you watch the muffler during a
startup, you will see that the engine rotates significantly on the motor
mounts, with the muffler unable to completely follow that motion. The
muffler separates from the header pipes at the muffler's ball joints,
with the muffler springs taking up the slack, and then slamming the
muffler back onto the header pipes. If all header pipes are not very,
very tight at the head attachment, one or more header pipes will be
pulled out of alignment by the spring pressure, rotating the header pipe
at the engine head ball attachment. Then when the springs try to pull
the muffler back into position, the header pipes no longer fit properly,
and one or more muffler balls do not go back into their sockets.
This problem is worse on hard starts, and can be made worse if the
springs lose their tension, as a result of the engine compartment temps
getting way too high. It was also made much worse when I mistakenly
applied anti-seize compound to the header pipe ball joints at the head
attach points.
The only cure we know of is to loosen the header pipes at the
heads and carefully realign the muffler/header ball joints, then tighten
the header pipes (at the heads) very tightly.
regards,
Terry Seaver
A135 / N135TD
Sven den Boer wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Sven den Boer" <svendenboer@quicknet.nl>
>
> After starting the engine and a test run, the rh back exhaust pipe had left the
muffler and was =B4=B4standing=B4 on the edge of the muffler.
> This despite installation according to Service Bulletin, with all springs still
attached.
> Any comments and help welcome.
>
> Cheers
>
> Sven den Boer
> PH-SBR
> A168
>
>
>
>
>
Message 11
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Subject: | Re: Exhaust troubles 912S on XS |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
Sven
I agree with Terry. Several time the same exact problem has occurred on my
914S. I now check the header pipe alignment often, by bushing down on the
muffler and see if it pops up smoothly. I think that a misalignment will
cause backfiring in flight. I have had this happen to me too.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds, WA 98020
425 776 5555
: Exhaust troubles 912S on XS
> Any comments and help welcome.
>
> Cheers
>
> Sven den Boer
> PH-SBR
> A168
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Intercooler for 914 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Craig Ellison" <craig.ellison2@verizon.net>
All,
If anyone is interested in a intercooler for a Rotax 914 let me know off
list. We need to have five for a batch run. These will be like those made
for Europa USA.
Craig Ellison
Silverton, OR
Waiting on FWF
----- Original Message -----
From: "rlborger" <rlborger@mac.com>
Subject: Re: Intercooler for 914
> Craig,
>
> > Sometime ago there was a request for info/availability of the
> intercooler kit for
> > the Rotax 914. Didn't hear the outcome. I contacted Europa 2004 and
> was told
> > the John Hurst developed it out of the Lakeland office. Does anyone
> have
> > one installed and running on a 914(does it work?) and if so is it
> still manufactured?
>
> I purchased the intercooler package from John when Europa USA still
> existed. I'm sure that you'll need to talk to John to see if he can still
> arrange for additional units to be manufactured. I am not at the point
> where I have begun work on firewall-forward so I don't have it installed
> yet or working. John had one installed on their 914 powered demo and
> claimed he could use full power in climb and cruise to an altitude higher
> than he wanted to climb to. Said that he could cruise at 12,500 at a TAS
> approaching 200 mph. Needless to say, I am looking forward to getting
> back to work on my ship so I can enjoy the improved climb and
> high-altitude performance. If you are interested, I have some pics of the
> intercooler package on my build site.
>
> The last time I spoke with him, John was working for Gulf Coast Avionics
> ( http://www.gca.aero ). You can give him a call there (800-474-9714).
>
> Good building and great flying,
> Bob Borger
> Europa Kit #A221 N914XL, XS Mono, 914, Airmaster C/S
> http://forum.okhuijsen.org/N914XL
> (75%) Work on hold while I accumulate $$ to purchase the plexi, prop and
> other parts that I'll never get from EMIL or E(04). Meanwhile, working on
> Instrument, Commercial, CFI & CFII ratings for potential career change.
> 3705 Lynchburg Dr.
> Corinth, TX 76208
> Home: 940-497-2123
> Cel: 817-992-1117
>
>
Message 13
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Subject: | Seat belts challenge...... |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! All.
I'm under the impression that the improvement proposals to
reduce/prevent spinal compression needs the shoulder contact with the
belts eliminating by arranging for the belts to pass over the shoulders
from a higher point?
If this is the case I'm wondering if my installation of actual BMW head
rests would serve as a likely aid to the cause by routing the belts
through a guide over the top of the BMW head rest.
If anyone who has seen my head rest set up would care to make a
pronouncement as to the potential of the idea? ..I will put some
pictures on the Matronics picture page when my digital /computer clever
Son gets home tonight .
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300.
Robt.C.Harrison
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