---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 12/17/04: 26 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:42 AM - Joggle joint (Paul Atkinson) 2. 12:48 AM - Re: Joggle Joint (Brian Davies) 3. 03:40 AM - Re: Joggle Joint (Steve Hagar) 4. 04:00 AM - fitting the fuselage top (Rowland Carson) 5. 04:40 AM - Re: Joggle Joint (Robert Berube) 6. 05:21 AM - Re: fitting the fuselage top (Paul McAllister) 7. 05:38 AM - Re: 912S oil consumption (Chrisgarner9@aol.com) 8. 06:27 AM - Re: fitting the fuselage top (John & Amy Eckel) 9. 06:58 AM - Re: Joggle Joint (Fergus Kyle) 10. 07:06 AM - Re: allowing for paint (Fred Fillinger) 11. 08:14 AM - Joggle Joint (Erich Trombley) 12. 08:24 AM - Paint Allowance (Erich Trombley) 13. 09:58 AM - Re: Joggle Joint (DuaneFamly@aol.com) 14. 11:26 AM - Carb banjos - changing their orientation (Sidsel & Svein Johnsen) 15. 12:04 PM - Re: fitting the fuselage top (Duncan McFadyean) 16. 01:01 PM - Re: fitting the fuselage top (Rowland Carson) 17. 01:01 PM - Re: fitting the fuselage top (Rowland Carson) 18. 01:50 PM - Mass Balance Arm failure (Tony Renshaw) 19. 01:55 PM - Control Deflection Re: Paint Allowance (Tony Renshaw) 20. 03:01 PM - Rotax Engine Mount (Tony Renshaw) 21. 03:07 PM - Re: Rotax Engine Mount (Duncan McFadyean) 22. 04:12 PM - Re: DOTH Friday 17th Dec? (Alan Burrows) 23. 06:38 PM - Re: Positioning Flaps (CHUCK RHOADS) 24. 06:44 PM - Re: Rotax Engine Mount (Tony Renshaw) 25. 09:12 PM - Re: Rotax Engine Mount (Tony Renshaw) 26. 11:10 PM - Re: DOTH Friday 17th Dec? (William Mills) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:42:10 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Joggle joint From: "Paul Atkinson" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul Atkinson" Mike Your joggle overlap sounds typical to me. Mine and the others I have seen are much the same. As far as strengh is concerned I believe the overlap is far greater than it needs to be, based on a conversation I had with Andy Draper some time ago. Paul Atkinson Time: 10:03:22 PM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Joggle Joint --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com Good day All, I have been putting the top on and off several times now to get things just right. One thing that I have noticed is that while all the horizontal epoxy joints seem to line up, the joggle joint doesn't seem to be fully overlapped. With all things in set, the front lip to the firewall clecoed in place, and the trailing edge of the fin lining up, I still get only about a 60% overlap in the joggle area. That's about a 3/8" (10mm) gap that does not provide strength. Have others had this problem? Is it a problem? Getting closer to bonding on the top and was just a little concerned. Mike Duane A207 Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Just about to put the top on but still finding little things to do before that. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:48:13 AM PST US From: "Brian Davies" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Joggle Joint --> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies" Hi Mike, I would not use the trailing edge of the fin as a guide. You can always cut this after bonding to get a straight line. I found that more overlap was possible if you pulled hard and slightly downwards at the rear of the fin. Some slight adjustment of the horizontal edges was then necessay, but the joggle overlap improved significantly. I also found that there was excessive resin at the narrow point of the joggle on the top half of the fuselage that was preventing the top from sitting down fully at this point. This increased the gap. I removed this and got a much better fit. Does that make sense? Brian Davies 454, Mono ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Europa-List: Joggle Joint > --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com > > Good day All, > > I have been putting the top on and off several times now to get things just > right. One thing that I have noticed is that while all the horizontal epoxy > joints seem to line up, the joggle joint doesn't seem to be fully overlapped. > With all things in set, the front lip to the firewall clecoed in place, and > the trailing edge of the fin lining up, I still get only about a 60% overlap > in the joggle area. That's about a 3/8" (10mm) gap that does not provide > strength. Have others had this problem? Is it a problem? Getting closer to bonding > on the top and was just a little concerned. > > Mike Duane A207 > Redding, California > XS Conventional Gear > Just about to put the top on but still finding little things to do before > that. > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:40:28 AM PST US DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=simple; s=test1; d=earthlink.net; b=G/G4upF43f/gOe4kE+7g5n2er2a3+A9Nr+0w3YxhfwDGSvYT49OCCgIYkR4vc8ms; From: "Steve Hagar" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Joggle Joint --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" Mike: I also had the same issue in a small area. To make myself feel better about it I backed up the concerned area with several layers of bid. My area was where the front of the vertical stab slopes down and meets the bottom bathtub. Steve A143 Mesa AZ Steve Hagar hagargs@earthlink.net > [Original Message] > From: > To: > Date: 12/16/2004 11:02:19 PM > Subject: Europa-List: Joggle Joint > > --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com > > Good day All, > > I have been putting the top on and off several times now to get things just > right. One thing that I have noticed is that while all the horizontal epoxy > joints seem to line up, the joggle joint doesn't seem to be fully overlapped. > With all things in set, the front lip to the firewall clecoed in place, and > the trailing edge of the fin lining up, I still get only about a 60% overlap > in the joggle area. That's about a 3/8" (10mm) gap that does not provide > strength. Have others had this problem? Is it a problem? Getting closer to bonding > on the top and was just a little concerned. > > Mike Duane A207 > Redding, California > XS Conventional Gear > Just about to put the top on but still finding little things to do before > that. > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:00:07 AM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: Europa-List: fitting the fuselage top --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson I've just received the latest copy of the CAA Safety Investigation and Data Department Occurence Listing, which reports the failure of a Europa mass balance arm rod end during taxi. This could have spoiled someone's whole day if it had occurred during flight. I expect there will be some sort of fix recommended (or even mandated) for this. I note some folk recently asking questions like "what should I do before sticking the top on?". If you can afford to wait until whatever fix is announced before you bond the fuselage top on, you might save yourself a lot of uncomfortable wriggling later. regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson PFA #16532 | 740 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:40:33 AM PST US From: "Robert Berube" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Joggle Joint --> Europa-List message posted by: "Robert Berube" Mike, Most of the fuselages are that way. If the joint has more than 1/4 inch, we will layup two layers BID over the joint. Bob Berube Flight Crafters -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Joggle Joint --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com Good day All, I have been putting the top on and off several times now to get things just right. One thing that I have noticed is that while all the horizontal epoxy joints seem to line up, the joggle joint doesn't seem to be fully overlapped. With all things in set, the front lip to the firewall clecoed in place, and the trailing edge of the fin lining up, I still get only about a 60% overlap in the joggle area. That's about a 3/8" (10mm) gap that does not provide strength. Have others had this problem? Is it a problem? Getting closer to bonding on the top and was just a little concerned. Mike Duane A207 Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Just about to put the top on but still finding little things to do before that. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:21:32 AM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Re: Europa-List: fitting the fuselage top --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Rowland, Is this available in electronic format ? Paul > From: "Rowland Carson" > I've just received the latest copy of the CAA Safety Investigation > and Data Department Occurence Listing, which reports the failure of a > Europa mass balance arm rod end during taxi. > > This could have spoiled someone's whole day if it had occurred during flight. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:38:14 AM PST US From: Chrisgarner9@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: 912S oil consumption --> Europa-List message posted by: Chrisgarner9@aol.com Hi, shell advance 4T which is synthetic based, but was the one reccomended by the supplier, but it''s a theory - certainly seems to be something that is piston ring related. Chris. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:27:00 AM PST US From: "John & Amy Eckel" Subject: Re: Europa-List: fitting the fuselage top --> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel" Rowland, How did the mass balance arm fail? Thanks, John Eckel, A230 do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rowland Carson" Subject: Europa-List: fitting the fuselage top > --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson > > I've just received the latest copy of the CAA Safety Investigation > and Data Department Occurence Listing, which reports the failure of a > Europa mass balance arm rod end during taxi. > > This could have spoiled someone's whole day if it had occurred during > flight. > > I expect there will be some sort of fix recommended (or even > mandated) for this. > > I note some folk recently asking questions like "what should I do > before sticking the top on?". If you can afford to wait until > whatever fix is announced before you bond the fuselage top on, you > might save yourself a lot of uncomfortable wriggling later. > > regards > > Rowland > -- > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:58:36 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Joggle Joint --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" Mike, I found that too. I attached a number of lines to the cockpit overhead panel (at the rear) and stretched same to the stern bulkhead. It seemed to reduce the gap to about 3/16. I cleco-ed the result and retightened the day I attached the top. There was some flexibility there. I presumed the 'rigger's angle of incidence' was controllable by means of the flying stab. Ferg A064 ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Europa-List: Joggle Joint | --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com | | Good day All, | | I have been putting the top on and off several times now to get things just | right. One thing that I have noticed is that while all the horizontal epoxy | joints seem to line up, the joggle joint doesn't seem to be fully overlapped. | With all things in set, the front lip to the firewall clecoed in place, and | the trailing edge of the fin lining up, I still get only about a 60% overlap | in the joggle area. That's about a 3/8" (10mm) gap that does not provide | strength. Have others had this problem? Is it a problem? Getting closer to bonding | on the top and was just a little concerned. | | Mike Duane A207 | Redding, California | XS Conventional Gear | Just about to put the top on but still finding little things to do before | that. | | | | | | ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:06:25 AM PST US From: "Fred Fillinger" Subject: Re: Europa-List: allowing for paint --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" > Can anyone suggest how much to allow for painting when fitting > flaps/ailerons etc. We have sanded back the upper wing skins > and rear close outs so that the flaps and ailerons do not catch, > but how much is painting likely to affect this clearance? > > Regards > paul stewart > Paint mfrs generally say target is about 4 mils, w/o hinting how to measure that! So worst case with a clear coat system is -- including primer but which needn't be 4 mils -- a total of 12 mils, or less than 1/64"/half an mm. So, if your clearance looks minimal so that paint is a factor, I'd say there's not enough. Plastic things alter dimensions over time (but not like we do!), and temperature/aerodynamics/wear have their effects. I finally fixed an interference issue re a plastic fairing/control surface on the AA-5, causing only cosmetic paint damage. There was always some gap there on the ground in usual weather, but too little to me visually, and complicated to fix. But temperature/aerodynamics I guess came into play. Others may have in-service exp for the Europa on this, but 1/16" seems like bare minimum to me. Reg, Fred F. ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:14:08 AM PST US From: "Erich Trombley" Subject: Europa-List: Joggle Joint --> Europa-List message posted by: "Erich Trombley" Mike, if what you mean by the joggle joint is the slanted joggle just forward of the horizontal stabilizer, I think you will find this to be the case for most builders going back to pre XS kits in fact. I have a mono which suffered the same. I contacted the factory back then and was told not to worry about it. I have been flying for two years now with no problems. All the best Erich Trombley N28ET Juno Gift Certificates Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season. http://www.juno.com/give ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:24:27 AM PST US From: "Erich Trombley" Subject: Europa-List: Paint Allowance --> Europa-List message posted by: "Erich Trombley" Paul, During the build I followed the recommend clearances for the gap between the flap and aileron, ensuring that they did no rub with the flaps in either the extended or retracted position. If I recall the clearance is 2-3mm. Painting adds very little in total thickness and in fact I didn't even consider it an issue when painting the plane. All turned out fine. Hope this helps. Erich Trombley N28ET Juno Gift Certificates Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season. http://www.juno.com/give ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:58:37 AM PST US From: DuaneFamly@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Joggle Joint --> Europa-List message posted by: DuaneFamly@aol.com Thanks to all that have alleviated my concerns. I just might add a little BID to the inside and go with that. But now I have another item to add to my "do-before-the-top-on" list. Mass balance arm? Thanks for the heads up Ferg. Mike Duane A207 Redding, California XS Conventional Gear Just about to put the top on but still finding little things to do before that. ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 11:26:40 AM PST US From: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" Subject: Europa-List: Carb banjos - changing their orientation --> Europa-List message posted by: "Sidsel & Svein Johnsen" All, Earlier this week, there was an interesting posting re. carb banjos and fuel hose proximity to hot exhaust pipes. I quote part of it: >I went to see another builder yesterday, Peter Field in Windlesham. He has >just hung his 912S. I took the opportunity to look at his carb banjos. They >both pointed forward towards the exhaust manifold. And they were sealed to >discourage changing their position. > >I therefore repeat my suggestion that the factory should be told and >discouraged from doing this ! As there are other important attachments on the engine that are NOT sealed/marked with red paint, I called an authorized Scandinavian Rotax dealer/repair facility for an explanation and comments: The red coloured seal is put on the banjos at the factory for two reasons: - To show the factory quality inspector that the fitting has been installed with the correct torque (the torque wrench squirts the paint on automatically) - To give some locking effect, and - more importantly - enable easy visual detection during regular intervals if anything has moved, meaning loss of torque. It is OK to rotate the banjo to suit the desired fuel hose routing. This requires of course that the bolt must be released and subsequently tightened to the correct torque (ref. Rotax manual), BUT: The copper sealing washers MUST be replaced by new, unused ones. Copper does not spring back when pressure is taken off, and will seal properly only on the FIRST tightening. The washers are standard soft copper washers that can be bought at hardware stores, need not be original Rotax parts but check for correct thickness in new condition (not measured off the used ones) in the Rotax manual. Industrial type locking liquid can be used on the assembled parts (only on the outside) but is not essential. Just simply mark the joined parts with a line drawn with permanent marker pen for the regular visual inspections, to detect whether anything has moved. Regards, Svein A225 - XS trigear - now in Norway ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:01 PM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: fitting the fuselage top --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" Hmm, Mine's already internally sleeved; hope that's what the fix is! Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rowland Carson" Subject: Europa-List: fitting the fuselage top > --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson > > I've just received the latest copy of the CAA Safety Investigation > and Data Department Occurence Listing, which reports the failure of a > Europa mass balance arm rod end during taxi. > > This could have spoiled someone's whole day if it had occurred during flight. > > I expect there will be some sort of fix recommended (or even > mandated) for this. > > I note some folk recently asking questions like "what should I do > before sticking the top on?". If you can afford to wait until > whatever fix is announced before you bond the fuselage top on, you > might save yourself a lot of uncomfortable wriggling later. > > regards > > Rowland > -- > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 01:01:49 PM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: Re: Europa-List: fitting the fuselage top --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson At 2004-12-17 09:26 -0500 John & Amy Eckel wrote: >How did the mass balance arm fail The entry reads in full: Europa / Rotax 900 / Taxy / White Waltham / 03/08/2004 200405964 AAIB Initial notification: Mass balance arm rod end failed during taxi. regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson PFA #16532 | 740 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 01:01:49 PM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: Re: Europa-List: fitting the fuselage top --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson At 2004-12-17 07:21 -0600 Paul McAllister wrote: >Is this available in electronic format Paul - sorry, no, not as far as I know. It hasn't appeared in an AAIB buletin yet (their website is ). regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson PFA #16532 | 740 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail ====================== ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 01:50:19 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Europa-List: Mass Balance Arm failure --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw Rowland, The mass balance arm rod end you mention that failed and is now the attention of a mandated fix. Can you elaborate exactly where it failed, if you know, and what was the apparent reason? Reg Tony Renshaw Sydney Australia At 07:00 AM 12/17/2004, you wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson > >I've just received the latest copy of the CAA Safety Investigation >and Data Department Occurence Listing, which reports the failure of a >Europa mass balance arm rod end during taxi. > >This could have spoiled someone's whole day if it had occurred during flight. > >I expect there will be some sort of fix recommended (or even >mandated) for this. > >I note some folk recently asking questions like "what should I do >before sticking the top on?". If you can afford to wait until >whatever fix is announced before you bond the fuselage top on, you >might save yourself a lot of uncomfortable wriggling later. > >regards > >Rowland >-- > >| Rowland Carson PFA #16532 >| 740 hours building Europa #435 G-ROWI e-mail > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:22 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Europa-List: Control Deflection re: Paint Allowance --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw There are wiser inputs than me, but the gap is not just about minimum clearances for paint. The general rule is that you shouldn't pull g and have a rolling input, but one day it could happen. I know there is a lot of flex potential in the wing, and you have to be assured that you don't build too fine a tolerance, to cater for full unimpeded control input with a deflected wing. This is the only reason the spec is 2-3 mm, which isn't exactly small, so by implication it has other demands of it. Reg Tony Renshaw Sydney Australia At 11:22 AM 12/17/2004, you wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Erich Trombley" > > >Paul, > >During the build I followed the recommend clearances for the gap between >the flap and aileron, ensuring that they did no rub with the flaps in >either the extended or retracted position. If I recall the clearance is >2-3mm. Painting adds very little in total thickness and in fact I didn't >even consider it an issue when painting the plane. All turned out >fine. Hope this helps. > >Erich Trombley >N28ET > >Juno Gift Certificates >Give the gift of Internet access this holiday season. >http://www.juno.com/give > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 03:01:12 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Europa-List: Rotax Engine Mount --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw Gidday, I have a Rotax engine mount that has needed a welding repair, and now I have mated it to my landing gear mount in an attempt to mount a Graham Singleton phenolic firewall. The mount has the 4 legs sticking forward, and the top 2 are the ones with the bracing. The bottom ones have none. This is contrary to how I would have imagined it to be. The installation picture Graham provided me has reinforcing bracing on the one of the bottom legs, the port one as I recall, braced back toward the weld attach point of the Starboard leg. So, what sort of engine mount have I actually got, and what sort is the one in Grahams picture???? Standing by..... Reg Tony Renshaw Sydney Australia Classic 236 B.B. Taildragger Currently working on Rudder Pedals, In but tight so more work to go on them. Tail, Wings, Ailerons, Flaps Complete and Connected Lower Fuse in Jig, Tail Torque Tube installed with temporary timber dowels. Mass Balance assembly installed and deflections sorted Roof Panel between doors completed. Photos at: http://forum.okhuijsen.org/TonyR Intended Engine: 912S CS prop (model undecided) Instrumentation: Garmin 296 Colour GPS beneath an electronic Artificial Horizon, one that I can trust for short periods IMC, to get out of a sticky situation ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 03:07:00 PM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Engine Mount --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <> One that defies rational analysis! Beats me how it works, more still how it was ever approved. Duncan McF. do not archive. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Renshaw" Subject: Europa-List: Rotax Engine Mount > --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw > > Gidday, > I have a Rotax engine mount that has needed a welding repair, and now I > have mated it to my landing gear mount in an attempt to mount a Graham > Singleton phenolic firewall. The mount has the 4 legs sticking forward, and > the top 2 are the ones with the bracing. The bottom ones have none. This is > contrary to how I would have imagined it to be. The installation picture > Graham provided me has reinforcing bracing on the one of the bottom legs, > the port one as I recall, braced back toward the weld attach point of the > Starboard leg. So, what sort of engine mount have I actually got, and what > sort is the one in Grahams picture???? Standing by..... > > Reg > Tony Renshaw > Sydney Australia > > Classic 236 B.B. Taildragger > Currently working on Rudder Pedals, > In but tight so more work to go on them. > Tail, Wings, Ailerons, Flaps Complete and Connected > Lower Fuse in Jig, > Tail Torque Tube installed with temporary timber dowels. > Mass Balance assembly installed and deflections sorted > Roof Panel between doors completed. > Photos at: > http://forum.okhuijsen.org/TonyR > Intended Engine: 912S CS prop (model undecided) > Instrumentation: Garmin 296 Colour GPS beneath an electronic Artificial > Horizon, one that I can trust for short periods IMC, to get out of a sticky > situation > > ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 04:12:29 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH Friday 17th Dec? From: "Alan Burrows" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" William How about Carlisle on Sunday, they have a good museum to visit on site and the bacon butties are excellent..! Alan > --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" > > > I agree, Duncan, Sunday looks the best. > Huddersfield is westish, as long as there is no low cloud over the > Pennines. > Lets confirm on Saturday night or early Sunday morning. > Regards, > William > Do not archive > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Duncan McFadyean" > To: > Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH Friday 17th Dec? > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" > >> >> <> > welcome>> >> >> Sunday! >> Present forecast favours somewhere West. >> >> Duncan. >> >> Do not archive > > ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 06:38:05 PM PST US DomainKey-Signature: a=rsa-sha1; q=dns; c=nofws; s=s1024; d=yahoo.com; bBdYIYFAvpiSKZFik6PrDvQsQhVJLvRKx0o2Ec5oA/HGA10opNfcKuIEWtp5I3T5et6tw6Qhc4SYdpXa/05ki6GBjxtjT4TNx1wP9yTE7DRTQhu2huJWJcnXFt4lt0DvtW1oIAdWyTjaQwosLzadbiW23a8fCsS+uUAxN2Sc/M= ; From: CHUCK RHOADS Subject: Europa-List: Re: Positioning Flaps --> Europa-List message posted by: CHUCK RHOADS I am getting my plane ready for what I hope is my final FAA inspection before being able to fly. I have my flaps positioned so that the bottom of the flaps are flat with the bottom of the wing. I noticed at Oshkosh that others have the flaps positioned so that that they align with the top surface of the wing & level with the ailerons. What affect will this have on performance? Which is better? Chuck Rhoads A100 trike, GEO powered Chuck Rhoads cfrhoads@yahoo.com 104 Shuttle Dr. Georgetown, KY 40324 (502) 867-7625 --------------------------------- Send a seasonal email greeting and help others. Do good. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 06:44:31 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Engine Mount --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw Duncan, Here is a picture. Can you tell me what you think please. Reg Tony Renshaw At 06:12 PM 12/17/2004, you wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" > > ><> > >One that defies rational analysis! >Beats me how it works, more still how it was ever approved. > >Duncan McF. >do not archive. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tony Renshaw" >To: >Subject: Europa-List: Rotax Engine Mount > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw > > > > > Gidday, > > I have a Rotax engine mount that has needed a welding repair, and now I > > have mated it to my landing gear mount in an attempt to mount a Graham > > Singleton phenolic firewall. The mount has the 4 legs sticking forward, >and > > the top 2 are the ones with the bracing. The bottom ones have none. This >is > > contrary to how I would have imagined it to be. The installation picture > > Graham provided me has reinforcing bracing on the one of the bottom legs, > > the port one as I recall, braced back toward the weld attach point of the > > Starboard leg. So, what sort of engine mount have I actually got, and what > > sort is the one in Grahams picture???? Standing by..... > > > > Reg > > Tony Renshaw > > Sydney Australia > > > > Classic 236 B.B. Taildragger > > Currently working on Rudder Pedals, > > In but tight so more work to go on them. > > Tail, Wings, Ailerons, Flaps Complete and Connected > > Lower Fuse in Jig, > > Tail Torque Tube installed with temporary timber dowels. > > Mass Balance assembly installed and deflections sorted > > Roof Panel between doors completed. > > Photos at: > > http://forum.okhuijsen.org/TonyR > > Intended Engine: 912S CS prop (model undecided) > > Instrumentation: Garmin 296 Colour GPS beneath an electronic Artificial > > Horizon, one that I can trust for short periods IMC, to get out of a >sticky > > situation > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:12:15 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Re: Europa-List: Rotax Engine Mount --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw Duncan and Tony, Here is that mount. What do ya reckon now?? I wish I knew I had to have it strengthened when it was in getting it repaired, and before I got it powdercoated. Ho hum. Reg Tony Renshaw At 06:12 PM 12/17/2004, you wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" > > ><> > >One that defies rational analysis! >Beats me how it works, more still how it was ever approved. > >Duncan McF. >do not archive. >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Tony Renshaw" >To: >Subject: Europa-List: Rotax Engine Mount > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw > > > > > Gidday, > > I have a Rotax engine mount that has needed a welding repair, and now I > > have mated it to my landing gear mount in an attempt to mount a Graham > > Singleton phenolic firewall. The mount has the 4 legs sticking forward, >and > > the top 2 are the ones with the bracing. The bottom ones have none. This >is > > contrary to how I would have imagined it to be. The installation picture > > Graham provided me has reinforcing bracing on the one of the bottom legs, > > the port one as I recall, braced back toward the weld attach point of the > > Starboard leg. So, what sort of engine mount have I actually got, and what > > sort is the one in Grahams picture???? Standing by..... > > > > Reg > > Tony Renshaw > > Sydney Australia > > > > Classic 236 B.B. Taildragger > > Currently working on Rudder Pedals, > > In but tight so more work to go on them. > > Tail, Wings, Ailerons, Flaps Complete and Connected > > Lower Fuse in Jig, > > Tail Torque Tube installed with temporary timber dowels. > > Mass Balance assembly installed and deflections sorted > > Roof Panel between doors completed. > > Photos at: > > http://forum.okhuijsen.org/TonyR > > Intended Engine: 912S CS prop (model undecided) > > Instrumentation: Garmin 296 Colour GPS beneath an electronic Artificial > > Horizon, one that I can trust for short periods IMC, to get out of a >sticky > > situation > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 11:10:38 PM PST US From: "William Mills" Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH Friday 17th Dec? --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" Hi Alan, Carlisle is probably a bit far for me (and probably for some of the other DOTHers in the South) in the winter months, unless the weather en route is guaranteed good for all the way for all of the day. We try to limit it to not much more than an hour each way in the winter months. Perhaps we can persuade some of the Scottish and North England pilots to join in for some of the northerly venues? Best wishes, William Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH Friday 17th Dec? > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" > > William > > How about Carlisle on Sunday, they have a good museum to visit on site and > the bacon butties are excellent..! > > Alan > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" > > > > > > I agree, Duncan, Sunday looks the best. > > Huddersfield is westish, as long as there is no low cloud over the > > Pennines. > > Lets confirm on Saturday night or early Sunday morning. > > Regards, > > William > > Do not archive > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Duncan McFadyean" > > To: > > Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH Friday 17th Dec? > > > > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" > > > >> > >> < >> > welcome>> > >> > >> Sunday! > >> Present forecast favours somewhere West. > >> > >> Duncan. > >> > >> Do not archive > > > > > >