Europa-List Digest Archive

Sun 12/19/04


Total Messages Posted: 9



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:50 AM - Rotax engine mount (Graham Singleton)
     2. 06:41 AM - Round engines (Fergus Kyle)
     3. 06:57 AM - Ferg's DH Beaver (Myron Haluschak)
     4.  PM -  ()
     5. 04:36 PM - Firewall chice and Rotax Engine order options (Michael Grass)
     6. 05:46 PM - Re: Firewall chice and Rotax Engine order options (KARL HEINDL)
     7. 06:23 PM - Re: Firewall chice and Rotax Engine order options (Michael Grass)
     8. 08:49 PM - Re: Firewall chice and Rotax Engine order options (Fred R. Klein)
     9. 11:26 PM - Re: Firewall chice and Rotax Engine order options (R.C.Harrison)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 02:50:22 AM PST US
    From: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
    Subject: Rotax engine mount
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk> At 23:56 18/12/2004 -0800, you wrote: >Maybe the mount that Graham refers to is the XS mount, which overcomes the >above 'difficulties'. > > >Duncan McF. It is, an extra phenolic piece is required on the XS installation to cover the holes for those additional cross braces. I must look at my fitting manual and check for confising remarks, (not unknown I suspect) ?:-) Graham


    Message 2


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    Time: 06:41:40 AM PST US
    From: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
    Subject: Round engines
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca> cheers, and especially Philip Whiteman: I must apologise for having seemed to take credit for the EXACTLY message. It is not mine. I rolled on the floor for a minute or two and determined it must be passed on. If I gave the impression the creation was mine, I'm sorry. I stripped the myriad overhead for efficiency. I also ditched the original, so cannot quote the author - judging from the text, he's probably off the street by now. Brilliant as it is, I'm sure it won't attract a giant lawsuit. Ferg


    Message 3


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    Time: 06:57:11 AM PST US
    From: "Myron Haluschak" <myron.haluschak@sympatico.ca>
    Subject: Ferg's DH Beaver
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Myron Haluschak" <myron.haluschak@sympatico.ca> My feeling is that you will have numerous responses tp this one, especially the pilots. Many years before the F-16 came into my career, the Beaver was the one, and I have never been able to put into words the feelings I had about it... at least not until now. Many thanks Ferg, for the trip back to great times and one helluva way of life. Myron Haluschak A046 Monowheel


    Message 4


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    Message 5


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    Time: 04:36:49 PM PST US
    From: "Michael Grass" <M.Grass@comcast.net>
    Subject: Firewall chice and Rotax Engine order options
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Michael Grass" <M.Grass@comcast.net> Group, I like to order the firewall forward kit from Europa2004 as soon as possible but I need to do an informed decision. My problem is: My heart is on the 914 engine with an CS Prop (Airmaster, Kremen, Arplast?) but I am not sure how much the total package will cost nor I will (and be able) buy the whole package at once. Therefore If I could get some input from the group members who where there before that would be great. My question related to the Rotax engines: What (factory) order options other then the 912ULS-4 or 914UL-4 are needed. The Rotax websites and the Lockwood catalog are rather confusing then helpful. I believe I need the ring mount, slipper clutch, regulator / rectifier, HD starter, expansion bottle but what type, expansion tank, vacuum pump drive (not the pump itself), bolts, prop. lugs, Lord blocks etc?? Again, reading the Rotax publications I do not know what is included and what needs to be ordered extra and what I really need for completing my Europa. I also believe that some options are standard on the 912 but not the 914 but in return the 914 includes some options which are not included in the 912 base package. My question regarding the Europa FWF kit is: What makes more sense: To get first the 914 kit and then, if I change my mind (means I cant afford the 914) upgrade to the 912? Or get the 912 package and have left over's? I would hate to buy parts I do not need. If somebody has the packing list from both that would be great so I could see what I really would get from Europa. The last of the set of questions: I know some of you where interested about the Kremen CS Prop. Are there any Europas flying with them yet and if yes how is the performance? Thanks Michael Grass A266 Trigear, Detroit MI, Building halted at 0 deg F. outside at ground level and to much time to dream.


    Message 6


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    Time: 05:46:34 PM PST US
    From: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com>
    Subject: Firewall chice and Rotax Engine order options
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com> Michael, I tried to do the fwf package 'on the cheap' by shopping around elsewhere for the engine. I came to the conclusion that by the time you add all the bits and pieces you need there isn't much of a saving when compared to the complete kit as I received it from Europa. It made for a very straightforward installation, no extra parts needed, except for a few nuts and bolts maybe. Why not upgrade to the cs prop at a later stage. Just make sure that you have enough clearance between the propeller hub and the cowling, and do the wiring and leave a hole for the control box on your panel for a simple retrofit. If cost is important why the 914 ? I didn't notice any mountains at all when I flew over Michigan. Karl >From: "Michael Grass" <M.Grass@comcast.net> >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com >To: <europa-list@matronics.com> >Subject: Europa-List: Firewall chice and Rotax Engine order options >Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 19:35:57 -0500 > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Michael Grass" <M.Grass@comcast.net> > >Group, > >I like to order the firewall forward kit from Europa2004 as soon as >possible but I need to do an informed decision. My problem is: My heart is >on the 914 engine with an CS Prop (Airmaster, Kremen, Arplast?) but I am >not sure how much the total package will cost nor I will (and be able) buy >the whole package at once. Therefore If I could get some input from the >group members who where there before that would be great. > >My question related to the Rotax engines: > >What (factory) order options other then the 912ULS-4 or 914UL-4 are needed. >The Rotax websites and the Lockwood catalog are rather confusing then >helpful. I believe I need the ring mount, slipper clutch, regulator / >rectifier, HD starter, expansion bottle but what type, expansion tank, >vacuum pump drive (not the pump itself), bolts, prop. lugs, Lord blocks >etc?? Again, reading the Rotax publications I do not know what is included >and what needs to be ordered extra and what I really need for completing my >Europa. I also believe that some options are standard on the 912 but not >the 914 but in return the 914 includes some options which are not included >in the 912 base package. > >My question regarding the Europa FWF kit is: > >What makes more sense: To get first the 914 kit and then, if I change my >mind (means I cant afford the 914) upgrade to the 912? Or get the 912 >package and have left over's? I would hate to buy parts I do not need. If >somebody has the packing list from both that would be great so I could see >what I really would get from Europa. > >The last of the set of questions: >I know some of you where interested about the Kremen CS Prop. Are there any >Europas flying with them yet and if yes how is the performance? > > Thanks > >Michael Grass > >A266 Trigear, Detroit MI, >Building halted at 0 deg F. outside at ground level and to much time to >dream. > >


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:23:58 PM PST US
    From: "Michael Grass" <M.Grass@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Firewall chice and Rotax Engine order options
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Michael Grass" <M.Grass@comcast.net> Karl, I appreciate your feedback. I would like to purchase the fwf package from Europa2004 direct but I was advised by them that I would have to source the Engine and Prop by myself because Rotax wants to keep it with their local distributor for warranty claims etc. and second it would be cheaper anyway (The Euro and the Pound gained more then 30% last year). They also advised me to contact Airmaster direct as well. I am actually a firm believer that we all should source as much as possible to bring Europa back on its feet which in return would warrant the factory support in the long time and therefore also secure our investment but in this case I do not seem to have this option or at least it does not seam feasible. You are absolutely right with the mountainous or better the lag of mountainous landscape in Michigan but I decided on the Europa as a touring machine and in terms of the 912ULS the high compression is rather a turn off for me. The high compression has a higher demand on fuel quality and even the highest available fuel grade here in Michigan is just marginal. The higher compression means detonations are more likely (OK the turbo boost reverses somehow this argument but you still could throttle back then). Also I like the Idea of more power adding more safety by gaining a safe altitude at a shorter time. A turn off for the 914 is the reduced TBO and a higher demand on maintenance. For the Prop: I don't know what would be more beneficial. A turbo and a fixed prop with the option to update easy to a CS or a 912ULS with the CS prop and no really update path on the engine side. Michael Grass ----- Original Message ----- From: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Firewall chice and Rotax Engine order options > --> Europa-List message posted by: "KARL HEINDL" <kheindl@msn.com> > > > Michael, > > I tried to do the fwf package 'on the cheap' by shopping around elsewhere > for the engine. I came to the conclusion that by the time you add all the > bits and pieces you need there isn't much of a saving when compared to the > complete kit as I received it from Europa. It made for a very > straightforward installation, no extra parts needed, except for a few nuts > and bolts maybe. Why not upgrade to the cs prop at a later stage. Just make > sure that you have enough clearance between the propeller hub and the > cowling, and do the wiring and leave a hole for the control box on your > panel for a simple retrofit. If cost is important why the 914 ? I didn't > notice any mountains at all when I flew over Michigan. > > Karl > > > >From: "Michael Grass" <M.Grass@comcast.net> > >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com > >To: <europa-list@matronics.com> > >Subject: Europa-List: Firewall chice and Rotax Engine order options > >Date: Sun, 19 Dec 2004 19:35:57 -0500 > > > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Michael Grass" <M.Grass@comcast.net> > > > >Group, > > > >I like to order the firewall forward kit from Europa2004 as soon as > >possible but I need to do an informed decision. My problem is: My heart is > >on the 914 engine with an CS Prop (Airmaster, Kremen, Arplast?) but I am > >not sure how much the total package will cost nor I will (and be able) buy > >the whole package at once. Therefore If I could get some input from the > >group members who where there before that would be great. > > > >My question related to the Rotax engines: > > > >What (factory) order options other then the 912ULS-4 or 914UL-4 are needed. > >The Rotax websites and the Lockwood catalog are rather confusing then > >helpful. I believe I need the ring mount, slipper clutch, regulator / > >rectifier, HD starter, expansion bottle but what type, expansion tank, > >vacuum pump drive (not the pump itself), bolts, prop. lugs, Lord blocks > >etc?? Again, reading the Rotax publications I do not know what is included > >and what needs to be ordered extra and what I really need for completing my > >Europa. I also believe that some options are standard on the 912 but not > >the 914 but in return the 914 includes some options which are not included > >in the 912 base package. > > > >My question regarding the Europa FWF kit is: > > > >What makes more sense: To get first the 914 kit and then, if I change my > >mind (means I cant afford the 914) upgrade to the 912? Or get the 912 > >package and have left over's? I would hate to buy parts I do not need. If > >somebody has the packing list from both that would be great so I could see > >what I really would get from Europa. > > > >The last of the set of questions: > >I know some of you where interested about the Kremen CS Prop. Are there any > >Europas flying with them yet and if yes how is the performance? > > > > Thanks > > > >Michael Grass > > > >A266 Trigear, Detroit MI, > >Building halted at 0 deg F. outside at ground level and to much time to > >dream. > > > > > >


    Message 8


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    Time: 08:49:13 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Firewall chice and Rotax Engine order options
    From: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com> Michael, Notwithstanding what you've heard from Europa 2004, on 12/7/04 I received the following info from John Wheeler: Fred A194 > > ` EUROPA ENGINE INSTALLATION > > Engines > > We offer a choice of either the Rotax 912S engine or the Rotax 914 engine for > installation in the Europa XS aircraft. Details of the engines are included > in the attached specification sheets. Each engine is supplied with a slipper > clutch to avoid engine damage in the event of a propeller strike. The engine > is mounted to a Rotax ring mount that interfaces with the Europa engine > mounting frame. The standard specification also includes a vacuum pump drive > that can be omitted if not required, coolant overflow bottle, and propeller > drive lugs that suit the Warp Drive propeller. > > Rotax 912S engine 8255.00 > > Rotax 914 engine 13055.00 > > Firewall forward kits > > The Europa firewall forward kits are designed to complement either the Rotax > 912S engine, or the Rotax 914 engine. Each kit comes complete with an engine > mounting frame, which fits to the Rotax ring mount, and is bolted to the > undercarriage mounting frame (monowheel), or nose gear mounting frame > (trigear). The kits include top and bottom cowlings, radiator, oil cooler, > cooling air ducting, engine air inlet ducting, fuel hose, fuel filters (2), > and all necessary fasteners. Also included are an analogue tachometer, and for > the 914 engine, a manifold pressure gauge. The 912S kit includes an electric > fuel pump and a stainless steel silencer system (not required for the 914 > engine, which incorporates a Rotax manufactured silencer system as part of the > engine). > > Rotax 914 firewall forward kit 1975.00 > > Rotax 912S firewall forward kit 2560.00 > > Each kit is supplemented by a number of optional extras, which are described > below:- > > > Instruments > > Either > Conventional analogue gauges - Voltmeter, oil temperature, oil pressure, > C.H.T. These gauges are manufactured by VDO, and are 52mm in diameter. > > Gauge set (Part N03 077) 185.00 > > Or > Rotax Flydat digital electronic gauge. This gauge includes readouts for oil > temperature, oil pressure, C.H.T., exhaust gas temperatures, r.p.m., and hours > run. It also incorporates warnings when limits are approached or exceeded. > > Flydat 525.00 > > Propeller > > Either > Warp Drive ground adjustable 3 bladed fixed pitch propeller, comprising > aluminium hub and 3 carbon fibre blades with nickel leading edge protection. > This propeller is supplied with a composite spinner of Europa manufacture. > > Warp drive propeller 795.00 > > Or > Airmaster variable pitch propeller with constant speed function, adjustable > cruise setting, climb setting, and manual pitch control. This propeller is > electrically operated and controlled. The propeller uses the same basic > blades as the Warp Drive propeller described above. > The Airmaster propeller is supplied with a polished aluminium spinner. > > Airmaster AP332 propeller 3122.00 > > Miscellaneous > > Where an Airmaster variable pitch propeller with constant speed function is > fitted in conjunction with a Rotax 912S engine, it is recommended that a > Manifold Pressure Gauge be fitted to enable the power output of the engine to > be monitored. > > M.P.G. 85.00 > > > > All prices are exclusive of V.A.T. and are ex works Kirkbymoorside >


    Message 9


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    Time: 11:26:48 PM PST US
    From: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
    Subject: Firewall chice and Rotax Engine order options
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk> Hi! Michael When you get round to looking at CS Props DON'T leave Kremen in Czecho out of the frame. It's good gear I've been and seen. Regards and compliments of the season. Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa 337 MKI/Jabiru 3300 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Michael Grass Subject: Re: Europa-List: Firewall chice and Rotax Engine order options --> Europa-List message posted by: "Michael Grass" <M.Grass@comcast.net> Karl, I appreciate your feedback.




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