Europa-List Digest Archive

Thu 12/30/04


Total Messages Posted: 17



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 02:33 AM - Re: FWF Options (Roger Mills)
     2. 02:59 AM - Re: LED Wingtip Lights (Jeremy Davey)
     3. 05:16 AM - Re: LED Wingtip Lights (EuropaXSA276@aol.com)
     4. 05:16 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 12/29/04 (Graham Singleton)
     5. 05:16 AM - Re: LED Wingtip Lights ()
     6. 05:18 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 12/29/04 (Graham Singleton)
     7. 06:04 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 12/29/04 (Graham Singleton)
     8. 06:15 AM - Re: Can one person maneuver the wings in the shop? (ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk)
     9. 09:08 AM - LED Wingtip Lights - covers (Fred R. Klein)
    10. 10:51 AM - Is an HD starter really necessary for a 912S ? (John & Paddy Wigney)
    11. 11:59 AM - Out rigger legs (Paul McAllister)
    12. 12:18 PM - Re: LED Wingtip Lights - covers (N55XS)
    13. 05:52 PM - Re: Out rigger legs (Cliff Shaw)
    14. 08:11 PM - Re: Out rigger legs (Steve Hagar)
    15. 09:31 PM - Treating aileron bellcrank (Andrew Sarangan)
    16. 09:33 PM - Blue corrugated tube for wing raceway (Andrew Sarangan)
    17. 10:57 PM - Re: Out rigger legs (Ronald J. Parigoris)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 02:33:25 AM PST US
    From: "Roger Mills" <Roger.Mills@btopenworld.com>
    Subject: Re: FWF Options
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Roger Mills" <Roger.Mills@btopenworld.com> I can only second Neville's opinion. I have a Rotax 912 in my Europa and it has run perfectly for nearly 6 years. I am currently changing the rubber fittings and hoses as a precaution but otherwise it has run without any attention other than the normal 50/100 etc checks Regards Roger


    Message 2


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    Time: 02:59:28 AM PST US
    From: "Jeremy Davey" <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
    Subject: LED Wingtip Lights
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com> Just a quick word of warning... The CreativAir nav lights with built-in landing lights won't fit under Graham's lenses, which are smaller than the Europa ones. Graham's are fine for smaller systems like the usual incandescents from Whelen, or possibly some of the smaller LED systems. Anyone in the UK who needs a mod for fitting these - mine is approved subject to flight testing, and it looks like Pete Kember is going to beat me on that by a fair margin! Cheers, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation." Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1250 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Sarangan Subject: Europa-List: LED Wingtip Lights --> Europa-List message posted by: Andrew Sarangan <asarangan@yahoo.com> So far I know of two sources for LED lights. CreativAir and GS-Air. Web sites are: http://www.creativair.com/ and http://www.gs-air.com CreativAir nav lights has to be mounted on the leading edge of the wingtip, and has the option of including a landing light. GS-Air nav lights must be mounted at the center of the wingtip, and includes a strobe and a rearward-looking white light, and it come in a preformed plexiglas housing. Are there other sources? Does Europa still sell the wingtip lenses? Which design would be most compatible with the Europa XS wing? I am looking for any general advice in this regard. Thanks everyone, and Happy New Year to everybody!!


    Message 3


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    Time: 05:16:12 AM PST US
    From: EuropaXSA276@aol.com
    Subject: Re: LED Wingtip Lights
    --> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaXSA276@aol.com These GS-Air LED and Strobe combo lights are a fine looking unit. I wonder if anyone has installed these and can voice an opinion. I remember someone writing about quality issues with a particular brand of strobe. Was it these units? The web page boasts, Very low current draw. Light weight. About half the price of Whelen set. Says nothing about the candle power meeting minimum requirements. Someone pinch me. Sounds too good to be true! Brian Skelly Texas Europa # A276 TriGear See My build photos at: http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS


    Message 4


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    Time: 05:16:27 AM PST US
    From: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: Europa-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 12/29/04
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk> At 23:56 29/12/2004 -0800, you wrote: >I look with interest at all of the options, but everytime, the Rotax comes >back on top. >I have no ties with Rotax, just in case some of you think that may be the >case. It just saddens me to see you guys [ and gals] put your money and >time into > >something that may dissapoint you later[ and by then, you wouldn't admit it >anyway ?] >Stuff a Rotax on the front, [work at your day job a few hours longer each >week to pay for it, if you have to], and go fly with what was intended. >Cheers, >Nev. So do I I agree with Nev, the main point is the airplane was designed for optimum performance with the Rotax, it just isn't possible to improve on it without redesigning the whole aircraft. It also is NOT possible to optimise engine performance without liquid cooling. Graham -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.


    Message 5


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    Time: 05:16:49 AM PST US
    From: <beecho@beecho.org>
    Subject: LED Wingtip Lights
    --> Europa-List message posted by: <beecho@beecho.org> Gosh, Jeremy, I guess my Creative Air nav lights didn't know that they could not fit Graham's lenses so they just did fit themselves! Tom -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Davey Subject: RE: Europa-List: LED Wingtip Lights --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" --> <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com> Just a quick word of warning... The CreativAir nav lights with built-in landing lights won't fit under Graham's lenses, which are smaller than the Europa ones. Graham's are fine for smaller systems like the usual incandescents from Whelen, or possibly some of the smaller LED systems. Anyone in the UK who needs a mod for fitting these - mine is approved subject to flight testing, and it looks like Pete Kember is going to beat me on that by a fair margin! Cheers, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation." Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1250 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Sarangan Subject: Europa-List: LED Wingtip Lights --> Europa-List message posted by: Andrew Sarangan <asarangan@yahoo.com> So far I know of two sources for LED lights. CreativAir and GS-Air. Web sites are: http://www.creativair.com/ and http://www.gs-air.com CreativAir nav lights has to be mounted on the leading edge of the wingtip, and has the option of including a landing light. GS-Air nav lights must be mounted at the center of the wingtip, and includes a strobe and a rearward-looking white light, and it come in a preformed plexiglas housing. Are there other sources? Does Europa still sell the wingtip lenses? Which design would be most compatible with the Europa XS wing? I am looking for any general advice in this regard. Thanks everyone, and Happy New Year to everybody!! advertising on the Matronics Forums. -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.


    Message 6


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    Time: 05:18:13 AM PST US
    From: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: Europa-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 12/29/04
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk> At 23:56 29/12/2004 -0800, you wrote: >So far I know of two sources for LED lights. CreativAir and GS-Air. Web >sites are: http://www.creativair.com/ and http://www.gs-air.com >CreativAir nav lights has to be mounted on the leading edge of the >wingtip, and has the option of including a landing light. GS-Air nav >lights must be mounted at the center of the wingtip, and includes a >strobe and a rearward-looking white light, and it come in a preformed >plexiglas housing. > >Are there other sources? Yes <http://www.perihelionDesign.com> Also sells light weight starter cable, which I hope to stock Graham -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.


    Message 7


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    Time: 06:04:52 AM PST US
    From: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: Europa-List Digest: 16 Msgs - 12/29/04
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk> At 23:56 29/12/2004 -0800, you wrote: >--- beecho@beecho.org wrote: > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: <beecho@beecho.org> > > > > Andrew > > Graham Singleton sells very nice XS wingtip lenses at a reasonable > > price. I have them and the Creative Air Leds. > > Tom Friedland All I can't make these at the moment. I was making 3 scrap for every good one, can't afford that! Sorry folks. You need to talk to Fred who I think has mastered the technology better than I did, "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com> Graham -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.


    Message 8


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    Time: 06:15:55 AM PST US
    From: ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk
    Subject: Can one person maneuver the wings in the shop?
    --> Europa-List message posted by: ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk Hi! Andrew If you take a look at http://www.crixbinfield.co.uk/europa.htm and scroll to Bob Harrisons Europa G-PTAG you should find details of a wing dolly which I've used for all rigging and loading into my covered trailer on my own for every flight. I works OK except the C of G rollover needed to be about 4" nearer the leading edge. It should also be shown on the Matronics Photo Share.pages. Since I'm away in Lapland at present I can't be more precise with the directions. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG >-- Original Message -- >Date: Tue, 28 Dec 2004 17:49:37 -0800 (PST) >From: Andrew Sarangan <asarangan@YAHOO.COM> >Subject: Europa-List: Can one person maneuver the wings in the shop? >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com > > >--> Europa-List message posted by: Andrew Sarangan <asarangan@yahoo.com> > > >Just looking for ideas on how I can maneuver the wings during >construction. I have a wing-caddy, but lifting the wing from the shop >table to the caddy needs an extra pair of hands. I also need to flip >the wings over, tilt them etc.. to work on different parts. I was >thinking of suspending from the ceiling, but there doesn't seem to be a >clear attach points on the wings. Any ideas are appreciated. > > FREE weekend phone calls! NO monthly fee, NO contract! http://www.tiscali.co.uk/services/smarttalk/?StartupCode=OL063&srccode=COD_563


    Message 9


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    Time: 09:08:14 AM PST US
    Subject: LED Wingtip Lights - covers
    From: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com> Happy New Year All, Graham, thanks for the plug...I have a few sets left from my first run of 16. I posted a couple of pixs on the matronics-photoshare on November 26, 2004 where they can be viewed. The polycarbonate light covers extend 5.5 inches aft of the leading edge and replace that portion of the XS wingtip. I sized them accordingly after discussion w/ Jeff Behrnes after seeing his excellent photos of his CreativAir position/strobe/landing light installation shown on his website, http://www.N55XS.com/ (go to May 7 thru May 22, 2004). After hearing from you of your production difficulties, I went ahead and made up some molds...learning amongst other things, how time-consuming it is when one deviates from the stock-Europa build. Nonetheless, the Europa was never designed for nighttime ops and I just couldn't bring myself to bolt stock Whelen units onto the otherwise clean lines of the ship...at this point I'm happy to have made the extra effort. Fred > --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk> > > At 23:56 29/12/2004 -0800, you wrote: >> --- beecho@beecho.org wrote: >> >>> --> Europa-List message posted by: <beecho@beecho.org> >>> >>> Andrew >>> Graham Singleton sells very nice XS wingtip lenses at a reasonable >>> price. I have them and the Creative Air Leds. >>> Tom Friedland > > All > I can't make these at the moment. I was making 3 scrap for every good one, > can't afford that! Sorry folks. > You need to talk to Fred who I think has mastered the technology better > than I did, "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com> > > Graham


    Message 10


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    Time: 10:51:57 AM PST US
    From: John & Paddy Wigney <johnwigney@worldnet.att.net>
    Subject: Is an HD starter really necessary for a 912S ?
    --> Europa-List message posted by: John & Paddy Wigney <johnwigney@worldnet.att.net> Hi Richard, FWIW, I have 375 hours on my 912S with the original starter and the original Odyssey PC 545 12AH battery which is installed at the firewall shelf. The first flight was almost exactly 3 years ago. The engine always fires within a few blades on a cold or hot start and I was just out yesterday flying with our grandchildren on a chilly day. I cannot explain why my engine is so trouble free but I think Europa owners should be aware that not all 912S engines suffer the problems you have detailed. The majority of my fill ups are with 100LL fuel and I only rarely top up with auto fuel. My prop is a low inertia design and weighs 9 lbs. Cheers, John N262WF, mon XS, 912S, WhirlWind C/S prop Mooresville, North Carolina ******* Time: 03:20:51 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: FWF Options From: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk> The rider here is that if you have a 912S then you need the HD starter motor because within a few hours you will screw up your sprag clutch if you don't ! Mine starts beautifully now - absolutely on the button down to (so far) 2 degrees C, which is more than can be said for last winter. Rotax say the standard starter is OK if it is installed correctly (I believe they mean with short battery runs) and if you have a low inertia propellor. The Airmaster is NOT low inertia. Of course they would say that because any other statement (or the provision of the HD starter on all new 912Ss) would have several of us claiming a replacement starter from them - and indeed the price of a new sprag clutch. XS firewall forward set-up (even on a classic fuselage) can accept a HD clutch AND the starter and the sprag clutch can be changed without removing the engine. Or rather Adrian Lloyd at Shobdon can do it with his specialised tools. Classic firewall forward can't even accept the HD starter, and removing any starter involves removing the engine. Richard Richard F.W. Holder **********


    Message 11


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    Time: 11:59:32 AM PST US
    From: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
    Subject: Out rigger legs
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net> Hi all, I was wondering if anyone has purchased these in the past could tell me how much they cost. Thanks, Paul


    Message 12


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    Time: 12:18:36 PM PST US
    From: N55XS <topglock@cox.net>
    Subject: Re: LED Wingtip Lights - covers
    --> Europa-List message posted by: N55XS <topglock@cox.net> Fred R. Klein wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com> > >Happy New Year All, > >Graham, thanks for the plug...I have a few sets left from my first run of >16. I posted a couple of pixs on the matronics-photoshare on November 26, >2004 where they can be viewed. The polycarbonate light covers extend 5.5 >inches aft of the leading edge and replace that portion of the XS wingtip. I >sized them accordingly after discussion w/ Jeff Behrnes after seeing his >excellent photos of his CreativAir position/strobe/landing light >installation shown on his website, http://www.N55XS.com/ (go to May 7 thru >May 22, 2004). > >After hearing from you of your production difficulties, I went ahead and >made up some molds...learning amongst other things, how time-consuming it is >when one deviates from the stock-Europa build. Nonetheless, the Europa was >never designed for nighttime ops and I just couldn't bring myself to bolt >stock Whelen units onto the otherwise clean lines of the ship...at this >point I'm happy to have made the extra effort. > >Fred > > > Expanding on what Fred has said, trust me, they are fine units and fit perfectly. I will soon be installing the set I bought from Fred and look forward to showing off the final assembly. The Creative Air units, with strobe and landing lights fit just fine, under the lenses. -- Jeff - A055 Finished priming the fuselage. Doors are at the paint shop... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.


    Message 13


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    Time: 05:52:02 PM PST US
    From: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Out rigger legs
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net> Paul I replaced my out rigger legs once. I bought replacement nylon from Laird Plastics. It was $5.00 a foot. Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net> Subject: Europa-List: Out rigger legs > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" > <paul.mcallister@qia.net> > > Hi all, > > I was wondering if anyone has purchased these in the past could tell me > how much they cost. > > Thanks, Paul > > >


    Message 14


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    Time: 08:11:25 PM PST US
    From: "Steve Hagar" <hagargs@earthlink.net>
    Subject: Out rigger legs
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" <hagargs@earthlink.net> Paul; The Nylon round stock is available through Mcmaster Carr. Steve Hagar hagargs@earthlink.net > [Original Message] > From: Paul McAllister <paul.mcallister@qia.net> > To: <europa-list@matronics.com> > Date: 12/30/2004 12:58:03 PM > Subject: Europa-List: Out rigger legs > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net> > > Hi all, > > I was wondering if anyone has purchased these in the past could tell me how much they cost. > > Thanks, Paul > >


    Message 15


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    Time: 09:31:02 PM PST US
    From: Andrew Sarangan <asarangan@YAHOO.COM>
    Subject: Treating aileron bellcrank
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Andrew Sarangan <asarangan@yahoo.com> I am doing alodine treatment for all the wing hardware. However, I am a little concerned about treating the bellcrank bearing. Alodining involves cleaning in an acid solution and performing a surface conversion. The bearing may be packed with grease, and I am afraid to dip that in the acid wash. Any comments?


    Message 16


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    Time: 09:33:41 PM PST US
    From: Andrew Sarangan <asarangan@YAHOO.COM>
    Subject: Blue corrugated tube for wing raceway
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Andrew Sarangan <asarangan@yahoo.com> Thanks to many before me, I decided to install the blue corrugated tubing as a raceway for the pitot/static tubes and wiring. This tubing comes in two sizes - 3/4" and 1/2" diameter. Which ones did you guys use? I am tempted to go with 3/4", but would rather avoid the excess weight if it is not necessary. ===== Andrew Sarangan http://www.geocities.com/asarangan


    Message 17


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    Time: 10:57:39 PM PST US
    From: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
    Subject: Re: Out rigger legs
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> There is different types of nylon. Think type 6 and also type 66. I forget which is which, but 1 has little ability to handle UV, thus fails. I remember reading a warning somewhere to make sure you use the proper nylon. McMaster may give a description of properties of nylon they carry. Ron Parigoris




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