---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 01/20/05: 13 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:54 AM - Re: over-voltage from alternator (William Mills) 2. 03:24 AM - Tail Wheel Steering Springs (Growzone) 3. 05:14 AM - Re: Tail Wheel Steering Springs (Paul McAllister) 4. 06:28 AM - Re: Tail Wheel Steering Springs () 5. 06:34 AM - Re: over-voltage from alternator (Fred Fillinger) 6. 02:42 PM - Lock Nuts ? (NevEyre@aol.com) 7. 02:45 PM - Re: lock nuts (Chuck Popenoe) 8. 03:26 PM - Carb Icing (Carl Pattinson) 9. 04:33 PM - over-voltage from alternator (Graham Singleton) 10. 05:28 PM - Re: lock nuts (Kingsley Hurst) 11. 05:52 PM - Re: Tail Wheel Steering Springs (Kingsley Hurst) 12. 10:21 PM - RE : Carb Icing (mau11) 13. 11:04 PM - Re: RE : Carb Icing (NEEL Jean Philippe) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:54:15 AM PST US From: "William Mills" Subject: Re: Europa-List: over-voltage from alternator --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" Hi Ken, I had a similar over-voltage problem last year and because I have the "Crowbar" mod fitted it kept activating the over-voltage circuit breaker. As soon as I replaced the regulator, the problem stopped. The over-voltage was intermittent. Best wishes, William ----- Original Message ----- From: "kenneth b. carpenter" Subject: Europa-List: over-voltage from alternator > --> Europa-List message posted by: "kenneth b. carpenter" > > I have experienced the alternator over charging the system. When revving up the engine, it goes up to 17 volts. Drop back to idle and the voltage drops back to 13.5V. It has done it rarely for a moment or two when first starting the engine. Then it did not recur in flight. Yesterday it went up to 17V. while in cruise. I reduced the RPM to about 4500 and the voltage went back to normal. I returned to the field with no detectable harm to anything. All the electronics will take 12-24V so they were not harmed. The overvoltage did not last long enough to harm the battery. > Anyone else had this problem? Do I need a new voltage regulator? I plan to check connections on the battery and such to see if something is loose. > Ken Carpenter > N 9XS 914 Mono > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 03:24:00 AM PST US From: "Growzone" Subject: Europa-List: Tail Wheel Steering Springs --> Europa-List message posted by: "Growzone" All, I know of a Europa flyer with the XS style tailwheel who had a couple of the steering springs break. Have any other flyers had any trouble with this? IOW, is this fairly common or rare? Any advice appreciated thanks. Tri Gear owners may pass on this one ! Kingsley Mono Classic 281 (with XS style tailwheel) in OZ Still plodding along. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:14:36 AM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tail Wheel Steering Springs --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Hi, I didn't have any trouble with the springs, but one of the clips connecting the cable to the spring opened up. Fortunately I had just finished my landing roll and it didn't quite let go. I replaced them with small shackles. There was a tech note about this a couple of years ago from the factory and I'd recommend doing the same as I did. Paul ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:28:25 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tail Wheel Steering Springs --> Europa-List message posted by: I fly on grass field and at 300 hours no problem with tail wheel springs. Ken Carpenter N 9XS 914Mono ----- Original Message ----- From: "Growzone" Subject: Europa-List: Tail Wheel Steering Springs > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Growzone" > > All, > > I know of a Europa flyer with the XS style tailwheel who had a couple of > the > steering springs break. Have any other flyers had any trouble with this? > IOW, is this fairly common or rare? Any advice appreciated thanks. Tri > Gear > owners may pass on this one ! > > Kingsley > Mono Classic 281 (with XS style tailwheel) in OZ > Still plodding along. > > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:34:07 AM PST US From: "Fred Fillinger" Subject: Re: Europa-List: over-voltage from alternator --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" > I plan to check connections on the battery and such to see if something is loose. > Ken Carpenter > Don't forget also the "C" lead from the regulator. That's the one the regulator uses to regulate, not any of the others. Also the wiring to, and the condition of, the big electrolytic capacitor is a possible culprit too, if the panel voltmeter is sensitive to a nonsinusoidal AC component on the DC bus. Reg, Fred F. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 02:42:25 PM PST US From: NevEyre@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Lock Nuts ? --> Europa-List message posted by: NevEyre@aol.com I spent a very long time running a Water Ski Club for the Royal Engineers Regiment of the British Army...... they had a unique way of dealing with nuts / bolts....... do it up untill the threads strip, back it off 1/2 a turn, and weld it ! I kid you not ! Cheers, Nev. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:45:31 PM PST US From: "Chuck Popenoe" Subject: RE: Europa-List: lock nuts --> Europa-List message posted by: "Chuck Popenoe" OK! My little experiment was valid, but I agree that it was the wrong experiment! I have turned around to becoming completely convinced, after doing some more thought experiments. Ted has accurately portrayed the situation, and I hope that we don't have to beat on this any more! Pops -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Chuck Popenoe Subject: RE: Europa-List: lock nuts --> Europa-List message posted by: "Chuck Popenoe" I've been following this thread and haven't been convinced by the arguments. So, as an curious experimental scientist, I happen to have in my lab a Skidmore-Wilhelm tensile test device, capable of measuring the tensile load on a bolt quite accurately. I placed a 1/2-13 bolt in the device and with a fitting nut, torqued it to 6000 lbf measured tensile force. I then placed another 1/2" nut on top and torqued it down as a locknut. The tensile force on the bolt did not change--remained at 6000 lbf. Next, I loosened the locknut and tightened it to snug condition, and while holding the locknut fixed, backed off the lower nut to lock the pair. The bolt tensile preload decreased to 5000 lbf. I repeated the set of experiments again, with the same result. Q.E.D.! This little experiment confirmed my suspicions that the locking nut should remain on top. Please tell me if am I doing something wrong? Pops A036 -- on hold at the moment. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Edward Gladstone Subject: Europa-List: lock nuts --> Europa-List message posted by: Edward Gladstone --> Message text written by INTERNET:europa-list@matronics.com --> Europa-List message posted by: "Graham Higgins" --> > >- - - - - - - - -> > You suggest the half nut is applied first, to the correct torque, >then the > full nut, also to the correct torque.At this point the half nut is > just about floating, as the pressure on the zig face of the bolt > thread is approaching zero.As the half nut is backed off, some of the > turn will be just taking up the slack in the thread, and this does not > change anything. > But as it is backed off further, it is putting pressure on the zag > face of > the bolt. This must also reduce pressure on the article being held, > and the pressure on the full > nut threads is increased by the same amount. > What is unclear to me is whether this reduction is significant, as the > article being held is under less than the correct pressure. The danger > of having a floating half nut, thus negating any locking effect, > - - - - - - - - -> > Hi Graham, When you apply the correct torque to the nut you are actually stretching the bolt to provide the correct design tension in the bolt ( it is actually amazing just how much stretch occurs in the bolt - - - try taking a 4 or 5M bolt of about 2 & 1/2" long, slide a 2" thick wall tube or a stack of larger nuts or washers over it, finger tighten a nut down on it and measure the length of the bolt with a vernier (or preferably digital) caliper. Then tighten the nut with a spanner and measure the length of the bolt again - - you will be surprised by how much it has stretched !!) Thus, when you back off the half thickness nut to apply pressure against the full nut, although you increase the pressure on the zig face of the full nut, as long as the full nut has not turned, the stretch in the bolt, and therefore the tension in the bolt will not have changed. The article will still be held at the correct pressure. Ted advertising on the Matronics Forums. advertising on the Matronics Forums. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 03:26:53 PM PST US From: "Carl Pattinson" Subject: Europa-List: Carb Icing --> Europa-List message posted by: "Carl Pattinson" I recently commented on the Skydrive vs the ST Aviation carb heater option. Here is the link for the ST version. There is a photo showing how it is fitted. http://www.jabiru.co.uk/IceEliminator.htm ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 04:33:24 PM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Europa-List: over-voltage from alternator --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton At 23:56 19/01/2005 -0800, you wrote: >Electronics I can help with ( jam nuts are a different story. I am "up-side >down" ) If you have good electrical connections all around, the regulator >is the problem. > >The connection I would be suspicious of are the ones coming off the >regulator to the battery. You may be seeing a voltage that is trying to >compensate for a high resistance current path to the battery. >Good luck, and let us all know what you do to fix it. Thanks Ken you might also check the ground connection on the regulator, if it is bolted to the firewall and that is where you connected the ground cable, the composite firewall could have relaxed and lessened the bolt tension causing contact resistance Graham to increase. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 05:28:32 PM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: RE: Europa-List: lock nuts --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" > Ted has accurately portrayed the situation, and I hope that we don't have to beat on this any more! Pops, With respect mate, I don't think there was any beating going on with respect to this subject. Ted simply pointed out the correct way to use lock nuts, others disagreed and still others like myself were mystified because we didn't know. Never being afraid to admit I don't understand something, I asked Ted for an explanation and now I'm pleased to be able to say I fully understand the principles involved notwithstanding it took a little while to grasp it. I am of the belief this list and others are for the education of all and I for one am grateful to Ted for what I have learned and I would not like to see others put-off publishing or disputing list postings in future for fear of being wrong or simply not able to understand. Regards Kingsley Do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 05:52:18 PM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tail Wheel Steering Springs --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" > I didn't have any trouble with the springs, but one of the clips connecting the cable to the spring opened up. Fortunately I had just finished my landing roll and it didn't quite let go. > I replaced them with small shackles. There was a tech note about this a couple of years ago from the factory and I'd recommend doing the same as I did. Paul and Ken, Thank you both for the replies. You have put doubts in my mind now Paul because maybe the trouble reported to me may have also been those connecting pieces, I didn't actually see what happened unfortunately. I also don't remember the Tech Note to which you refer Paul so will look to see if I have it. Irrespective of whether I find it or not, I will take your advice about using the shackles. As a point of interest Ken, did you remove those tear drop shaped wire connectors on your springs too ? Cheers Kingsley ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 10:21:32 PM PST US From: "mau11" Subject: RE : Europa-List: Carb Icing --> Europa-List message posted by: "mau11" Hello, I know this system, the big problem is the permanent upload charge of electrical network during service 60w. Personnaly I use Skydrive since 250 hours (I am very happy)and the two main advantage are: 1 no electrical consumption 2 Permanent service (I had a valve into the cowling for shut down but I never used) Monowheel N145 --|-- --------(*)-------- Michel AUVRAY -----Message d'origine----- De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Carl Pattinson Envoy : vendredi 21 janvier 2005 00:26 : europa-list@matronics.com Objet : Europa-List: Carb Icing --> Europa-List message posted by: "Carl Pattinson" --> I recently commented on the Skydrive vs the ST Aviation carb heater option. Here is the link for the ST version. There is a photo showing how it is fitted. http://www.jabiru.co.uk/IceEliminator.htm ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 11:04:39 PM PST US From: NEEL Jean Philippe Subject: Re: RE : Europa-List: Carb Icing --> Europa-List message posted by: NEEL Jean Philippe No doubt: every system works! Why?Because I think 912 does not know carb icing. 600h flying in the alps in summer and winter I never had icing troubles at low descent rate (1000ft/min max and 4000rpm mini.) I am afraid there is often confusion beteewn carb icing and misfiring or fuel alimentation . May be that's not true for 912S Jean Philipppe mau11 wrote: --> Europa-List message posted by: "mau11" Hello, I know this system, the big problem is the permanent upload charge of electrical network during service 60w. Personnaly I use Skydrive since 250 hours (I am very happy)and the two main advantage are: 1 no electrical consumption 2 Permanent service (I had a valve into the cowling for shut down but I never used) Monowheel N145 --|-- --------(*)-------- Michel AUVRAY -----Message d'origine----- De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Carl Pattinson Envoy : vendredi 21 janvier 2005 00:26 : europa-list@matronics.com Objet : Europa-List: Carb Icing --> Europa-List message posted by: "Carl Pattinson" --> I recently commented on the Skydrive vs the ST Aviation carb heater option. Here is the link for the ST version. There is a photo showing how it is fitted. http://www.jabiru.co.uk/IceEliminator.htm ---------------------------------