---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 01/31/05: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 04:32 AM - Re: Pitch Torque Tube (Kingsley Hurst) 2. 07:40 AM - P{reparing the fuselage surface (Fergus Kyle) 3. 08:17 AM - Re: Preparing the fuselage surface (Gerry Holland) 4. 08:33 AM - Re: P{reparing the fuselage surface (Fred Fillinger) 5. 10:05 AM - Re: Pitch Torque Tube (M@nsfield) 6. 12:57 PM - Re: counterboring spar (Andrew Sarangan) 7. 01:04 PM - Re: counterboring spar (Jeremy Davey) 8. 01:06 PM - Re: counterboring spar (EuropaXSA276@aol.com) 9. 06:17 PM - Re: counterboring spar (Cliff Shaw) 10. 06:32 PM - Re: counterboring spar (Fergus Kyle) 11. 08:03 PM - Re: counterboring spar (Andrew Sarangan) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 04:32:56 AM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pitch Torque Tube --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" David Simenauer wrote : > I am about to mount the pitch torque tube to the cockpit module. I have > the CS09 brackets clamped in position now. My question is about the > amount of movement I should have. With it in the position I have it now, > the pitch push rods move about 2.25 inches, 55 mm, forward and back. Is > this enough? I have looked, but can't find mention of this in the manual. Dave, Just measured mine for you. With the full elevator circuit working, the pitch push rods move a total distance of 48mm (1.9 inches) for an elevator deflection of 18 degrees. IOW, at the stage you are at, it would seem that 2.25 inches would be about right. Regards Kingsley Hurst Mono Classic 281 in Oz. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 07:40:58 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Europa-List: P{reparing the fuselage surface --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" Cheers, from snowy Ontario, I am at the stage of preparing to apply a paint filler before finishing the surface for under- and top-coat. When I wash the belly with the specified soap mix, the water beads (we're talking centre flat belly area) and there's a greasy shine to the surface. Since the filer is water-based, it's a no-no. I am figuring it's release coat from the factory - and I'm going to have to scrub with acetone (usual precautions) or TSP. Can any one who's been there or knows better whether I'm on the right track and if yes - which to use or is either OK? Ferg #064 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 08:17:03 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Preparing the fuselage surface From: Gerry Holland --> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland Ferg Hi! Whether this is right or not I dont know but this is the way I prepared for a combination of Super Fill and Super Prime from Polyfiber. Interesting when the Company who painted the Aircraft received it they sanded off just about all of it and used their own primer. Prior to my attempts at filling and priming I cut back the gel coat until it was a drab non shine surface with glass paper and then washed thoroughly with Polyfiber 310 Alkaline Cleaner. It may be worth talking to your Paint shop. Mine, Airborne Composites carries out many Fiber and Carbon repairs and paints many Gliders and Composite Aircraft. They would have been happier if I had done nothing with the Fuselage or wings and left them to fill, profile and paint from scratch. Not a rip off but based on the facts that they always felt ill at ease preparing and painting a Homebuilt on the basis that the filling and priming was completed by the owner. That part of the process is the most important if the paint job is to last. I worked with them on my Wings and Fuselage and tend to see their point of view. Using a pressurised, flow through paint Bay also was a lot more comfortable when sanding back. I felt like crap when doing it in my workshop even with a mask. They very rarely paint for Homebuilts now as getting a happy Customer through quality at a reasonable price is hard to achieve. I'm pleased with my results on both quality and price. Sorry to ramble. Regards Gerry Europa 384 G-FIZY Trigear with Rotax 912 and Arplast CS Prop. Dynon EFIS, KMD 150, Icom A-200 and SL70 Transponder. PSS AoA Fitted. http://www.g-fizy.com Mobile: +44 7808 402404 WebFax: +44 870 7059985 gnholland@onetel.com ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:28 AM PST US From: "Fred Fillinger" Subject: Re: Europa-List: P{reparing the fuselage surface --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" > > Cheers, from snowy Ontario, > I am at the stage of preparing to apply a paint filler before > finishing the surface for under- and top-coat. When I wash the belly with > the specified soap mix, the water beads (we're talking centre flat belly > area) and there's a greasy shine to the surface. Since the filer is > water-based, it's a no-no. I am figuring it's release coat from the > factory - and I'm going to have to scrub with acetone (usual precautions) or > TSP. It's a no-no with even solvent-based paint, unless the solvent will etch into the epoxy, which it won't. My fuse had no release coat, and the coats I'm familiar with you'll know is there. So just used a household cleaner and water rinse, then abraded (dry) with an electric palm sander and fine grit. With the drum effect, the whole neighborhood will wonder what the heck you're doing. I needed hearing protection...! Reg, Fred F. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 10:05:55 AM PST US From: "M@nsfield" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Pitch Torque Tube --> Europa-List message posted by: "M@nsfield" Hi David, A handy tip from Neville is to file a profile in the outer pairs of welded lugs (where the pitch push rods attach) so there is more rotational movement before the lugs touch the edge of the CS05 aileron torque tube (where it sits flush with the CS08 crank). Don't remove so much as to leave less metal at the side than there is around the hole - i.e. leave as much metal at the side as there is at the top of the lug (hard to describe, but I guess you'll understand). I'll see if I can get a picture of this, but my CM is installed so it might be a bit cluttered in there... HTH PaulM XS 383 CM in, TP in, off to the front for LG frame. --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Simenauer" I am about to mount the pitch torque tube to the cockpit module. I have the CS09 brackets clamped in position now. My question is about the amount of movement I should have. With it in the position I have it now, the pitch push rods move about 2.25 inches, 55 mm, forward and back. Is this enough? I have looked, but can't find mention of this in the manual. Thanks, Dave Simenauer Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005. Cheap flights - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/ Bargain holidays - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:57:01 PM PST US From: Andrew Sarangan Subject: RE: Europa-List: counterboring spar --> Europa-List message posted by: Andrew Sarangan Thanks for that input. I understand your reasoning, but it would be a better solution to countersink only as necessary and use a longer bolt. The spar is only about 1" thick, and I don't like the idea of boring 60% of it away with a 3/4" drill. In fact a diameter of 11/16" to a depth of 1/4" will comfortably fit the AN4 bolt head and the EURO washer. So I ordered different lengths of AN4 bolts and will try them out. They are only 50 cents each. I don't know why the manual wants us to drill a deeper hole instead of giving us a longer bolt. --- Kingsley Hurst wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" > > > > Wouldn't this cause the spar to become > weaker, which is probably the most critical structure of the > airplane? > > Andrew, > > The counter boring is done in the timber in the middle of the spar. > When a beam is under load, the centreline takes no load. In the case > of > the spar under normal +ive G loading, the top of the spar is in > compression and the bottom is in tension. The middle is neutral. > The > timber is only a spacer to hold the top and bottom spar rovings > apart. > > Suggest you just use the bolt called out in the manual and > countersink > the hole until the other end of the bolt is just long enough to hold > the > parts it has to hold. If it is too long, it will conflict with the > other bolt in the aluminium bracket when the wings are rigged. > > Regards > Kingsley > Mono Classic 281 in Oz. > > > > > > > > > ===== Andrew Sarangan http://www.geocities.com/asarangan ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 01:04:56 PM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: counterboring spar --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Andrew (et al), Can I suggest you check your build manual against the latest updates available online? I've got a feeling that the depth of that counterbore has been significantly reduced - but only after I did mine :-( Regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation." Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1250 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Sarangan Subject: RE: Europa-List: counterboring spar --> Europa-List message posted by: Andrew Sarangan Thanks for that input. I understand your reasoning, but it would be a better solution to countersink only as necessary and use a longer bolt. The spar is only about 1" thick, and I don't like the idea of boring 60% of it away with a 3/4" drill. In fact a diameter of 11/16" to a depth of 1/4" will comfortably fit the AN4 bolt head and the EURO washer. So I ordered different lengths of AN4 bolts and will try them out. They are only 50 cents each. I don't know why the manual wants us to drill a deeper hole instead of giving us a longer bolt. --- Kingsley Hurst wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" > > > > Wouldn't this cause the spar to become > weaker, which is probably the most critical structure of the > airplane? > > Andrew, > > The counter boring is done in the timber in the middle of the spar. > When a beam is under load, the centreline takes no load. In the case > of > the spar under normal +ive G loading, the top of the spar is in > compression and the bottom is in tension. The middle is neutral. > The > timber is only a spacer to hold the top and bottom spar rovings > apart. > > Suggest you just use the bolt called out in the manual and > countersink > the hole until the other end of the bolt is just long enough to hold > the > parts it has to hold. If it is too long, it will conflict with the > other bolt in the aluminium bracket when the wings are rigged. > > Regards > Kingsley > Mono Classic 281 in Oz. > > > > > > > > > ===== Andrew Sarangan http://www.geocities.com/asarangan ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:06:50 PM PST US From: EuropaXSA276@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: counterboring spar --> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaXSA276@aol.com Hi Andrew: I did the same. I only counter bored the hole to the bolt head depth. Perhaps a few mm more. Warning! Do not flox the hole per the instructions at this time. That pivot my need some adjustment when setting your wings! Brian Skelly Texas Europa # A276 TriGear See My build photos at: http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 06:17:53 PM PST US From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Re: Europa-List: counterboring spar --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" Andrew: I second that advice. (forgot to say that when I replayed earlier) I aligned the pivot bolt hole with the pivot bolt on the CM by slipping a short piece of brass tubing over the bolt and sliding it out to locate where the other bolt should have been. (mine was OK on the starboard side but off on the port side by an 1/8") Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 http://www.europaowners.org/WileE > Hi Andrew: > I did the same. I only counter bored the hole to the bolt head depth. > Perhaps a few mm more. > Warning! Do not flox the hole per the instructions at this time. That > pivot > my need some adjustment when setting your wings! > > > Brian Skelly ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 06:32:37 PM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Re: Europa-List: counterboring spar --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" Andrew Sarangan et al "So I ordered different lengths of AN4 bolts and will try them | out. They are only 50 cents each. I don't know why the manual wants us | to drill a deeper hole instead of giving us a longer bolt."! Andrew, Just as long as you have ordered bolts of the same specification as the original........... There are bolts and other bolts which I'm sure you know. I'm not presuming your ignorance, just making myself feel good! Ferg ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 08:03:30 PM PST US From: Andrew Sarangan Subject: Re: Europa-List: counterboring spar --> Europa-List message posted by: Andrew Sarangan Correct me if I am wrong, but AN4-XXA is a 1/4-28 cadmium bolt. I am getting these from Aircraft Spruce. Am I mistaken? --- Fergus Kyle wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" > > Andrew Sarangan et al > > "So I ordered different lengths of AN4 bolts and will try them > us > > Andrew, > Just as long as you have ordered bolts of the same > specification > as the original........... There are bolts and other bolts which I'm > sure > you know. I'm not presuming your ignorance, just making myself feel > good! > Ferg > > > > > > > > > ===== Andrew Sarangan http://www.geocities.com/asarangan