Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 06:12 AM - Re: Sourcing a 24V battery (Jim Butcher)
2. 08:23 AM - Re: Re: Sourcing a 24V battery (N55XS)
3. 09:20 AM - Re: Re: Sourcing a 24V battery (Cliff Shaw)
4. 10:44 AM - Re: Re: Sourcing a 24V battery, alternative? (Jos Okhuijsen)
5. 01:14 PM - Re: Re: Sourcing a 24V battery (Brad Newell)
6. 03:23 PM - Re: Re: Sourcing a 24V battery (Vaughn Teegarden)
7. 03:57 PM - Re: Re: Sourcing a 24V battery (Tony Krzyzewski)
8. 04:04 PM - Re: Re: Sourcing a 24V battery (Fred Fillinger)
9. 11:24 PM - IFR redundancy, was 2nd battery (Jos Okhuijsen)
Message 1
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Subject: | Re: Sourcing a 24V battery |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Butcher" <europa@triton.net>
Nigel,
When I looked at this I talked to Tim at B&C. Their advice was to just use
two small 12V batteries in series. The cell to cell resistance is about the
same as the jumper will be. In fact their small 24 batt is exactly that, 2
12V in series. I also concluded that the starter would be OK on 24V since
it is (should be) so intermittent. I went back to the 12V system since I
already own a heated 12V pitot which I found can't be modified or replaced
cheaply. I do have dual alternators, the second one being a 40 Amp running
off the crankshaft similar to Jim Nelson's.
Jim Butcher A185
Message 2
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Subject: | Re: Sourcing a 24V battery |
--> Europa-List message posted by: N55XS <topglock@cox.net>
Jim Butcher wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Butcher" <europa@triton.net>
>
>Nigel,
>
>When I looked at this I talked to Tim at B&C. Their advice was to just use
>two small 12V batteries in series. The cell to cell resistance is about the
>same as the jumper will be. In fact their small 24 batt is exactly that, 2
>12V in series. I also concluded that the starter would be OK on 24V since
>it is (should be) so intermittent. I went back to the 12V system since I
>already own a heated 12V pitot which I found can't be modified or replaced
>cheaply. I do have dual alternators, the second one being a 40 Amp running
>off the crankshaft similar to Jim Nelson's.
>
>Jim Butcher A185
>
>
Another advantage to running two 12v batteries, in series, is that you
can draw off either of the single batteries, individually, should you
need only 12 volts...
--
Jeff - A055
Finishing the panel and waiting on the paint guy...
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 3
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Subject: | Re: Sourcing a 24V battery |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
12 volts of 24 volts that is the question.
In building an Europa, made of fiberglass, you will have to wire your ground
side conductor. This split battery concept could get you in a very
confusing situation. (Fire hazard too) I would not do it and am taking this
opportunity to recommend against it.
The only advantage is the longer "draw down" time available for some
electronic equipment. This equipment is designed to run on less than 24
volts and has a internal power supply to regulate the incoming power to the
voltage needed. (some times it as low as 3 volts) My panel seems to work OK
down to 10 volts.
I do recommend you install a top-of-the-line 12 Volt R type battery
(ODYSSEY) of a larger size than minimum. ( 18 Ah or bigger if you are really
worried) The bigger battery will be more reliable in usage than anything
else you can do to improve your electrical system.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds, WA 98020
425 776 5555
http://www.europaowners.org/WileE
Message 4
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Subject: | Re: Sourcing a 24V battery, alternative? |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jos Okhuijsen" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
> Another advantage to running two 12v batteries, in series, is that you
> can draw off either of the single batteries, individually, should you
> need only 12 volts...
Uneven discharge of 2 batteries in series will change their internal
resistance, result is that their lifetime will be greatly reduced by the
subsequent uneven charging of the cells.
Pfft what a sentence.. Hope it gives the picture though. <grin>
I will be going for 2 separate batteries and an extra generator each
driving part of the loads instead of the vacuumpump on the Rotax. This
will give me an independant electrical source to switch to for the
essential bus, if one of the battery-regulater-chargers would develop a
failure. Fully electrical with an efis is lighter, cheaper easier and
probably more reliable then a vacuumsystem too.
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
Message 5
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Subject: | Re: Sourcing a 24V battery |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Brad Newell" <wendigo@olympus.net>
Hey, Cliff...
We've run a parallel system on the boat, for both the engine and "house" and
they work fine.
How about using two 12v batteries with a flip/flop switch, if one fails?
...And I "second" your views on the magazine from the Club.
Work has been shut down here since Christmas due to congestion in the living
room. About to start up again. And we'll be shut down for a trip to Oz in
May/June for another grandchild.
Are there any builders near Melbourne?
Cheers,
Brad
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cliff Shaw
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Re: Sourcing a 24V battery
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
12 volts of 24 volts that is the question.
In building an Europa, made of fiberglass, you will have to wire your ground
side conductor. This split battery concept could get you in a very
confusing situation. (Fire hazard too) I would not do it and am taking this
opportunity to recommend against it.
The only advantage is the longer "draw down" time available for some
electronic equipment. This equipment is designed to run on less than 24
volts and has a internal power supply to regulate the incoming power to the
voltage needed. (some times it as low as 3 volts) My panel seems to work OK
down to 10 volts.
I do recommend you install a top-of-the-line 12 Volt R type battery
(ODYSSEY) of a larger size than minimum. ( 18 Ah or bigger if you are really
worried) The bigger battery will be more reliable in usage than anything
else you can do to improve your electrical system.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds, WA 98020
425 776 5555
http://www.europaowners.org/WileE
Message 6
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Subject: | Re: Sourcing a 24V battery |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Vaughn Teegarden" <N914VA@starband.net>
I will soon have to face the task of wiring my aircraft and plan to have a glass
panel from Grand Rapids Technolgy. Since I didn't want to use any steam gages,
I have been looking for a dual battery system to insure that I don't run out
of sparks. I also wanted it to keep both batterys charged and run on only one
when necessary without me having to throw any switches. I have found this website
and am in the process of trying to figure it out. Maybe some of you with
sparks in your veins could figure it out a lot quicker.
http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/EAA_IG/EA_IG_6.htm
Vaughn Teegarden
N914VA
Message 7
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Subject: | Re: Sourcing a 24V battery |
Received-SPF: none
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Krzyzewski" <tonyk@kaon.co.nz>
>> I have found this website and am in the process of trying to figure
it out. Maybe some of you with sparks in your veins could figure it out
a lot quicker.
http://www.jlc.net/~fcs/EAA_IG/EA_IG_6.htm
This site has some good pictures of how a good aircraft installation
should look, most don't end up like this!
Some really good (and easy to follow) electrical installations with
dual batteries can be found at the aero electric connection. Bob
Nuckolls is an expert in all things electrical when it comes to aircraft
and for those developing an electrical system rather than following the
Europa basic installation could do no better than having a good read
through Bob's material
www.aeroelectric.com
Tony
Message 8
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Subject: | Re: Sourcing a 24V battery |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net>
> I have been looking for a dual battery system to insure that I don't
run out of sparks. I also wanted it to keep both batterys charged and
run on only one when necessary without me having to throw any
switches.
> Vaughn Teegarden
> N914VA
If this is for VFR only, I don't see the need for that kind of
complexity. Browsers of the aeroelectric list on matronics.com will
know that the guru there (Nuckolls) is dogmatic in saying a
properly-designed, single electrical system is more than sufficient
for VFR. Obviously, I agree, though others may not. ;-)
For IFR, and an EFIS w/o mechanical redundancy, I have an opinion some
may not want to hear!
Reg,
Fred F.
Message 9
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Subject: | IFR redundancy, was 2nd battery |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jos Okhuijsen" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
Fred Fillinger <n3eu@comcast.net> kirjoitti Wed, 2 Feb 2005 19:18:09 -0500:
>
> For IFR, and an EFIS w/o mechanical redundancy, I have an opinion some
> may not want to hear!
Ok, I'll take the bait. I would have the Truetracks pictorial pilot addon
on the autopilot or a 2nd efis and we were allready agreeing on the 2nd
battery generator eh?
Regards,
Jos Okhuijsen
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