Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:35 AM - IFR reliability MTBF etc (Graham Singleton)
2. 01:38 AM - Europas (MR!PAUL MITCHELL)
3. 01:39 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 02/05/05 (Graham Singleton)
4. 07:06 AM - Re: C/S propellers (Rowland Carson)
5. 08:11 AM - Re: IFR reliability MTBF etc (Fred Fillinger)
6. 09:01 AM - Re: C/S propellers (Pete Lawless)
7. 09:19 AM - Re: Re: IFR redundancy, was 2nd battery (Fred Fillinger)
8. 10:27 AM - Lightning (Fergus Kyle)
9. 12:27 PM - Re: Lightning (Fred R. Klein)
10. 01:46 PM - Re: Lightning (Fergus Kyle)
11. 03:26 PM - Flight Sin 2004 (Cliff Shaw)
12. 05:48 PM - Location of Web Site (Steve Crimm)
13. 07:38 PM - Re: Location of Web Site (Fred R. Klein)
14. 08:03 PM - Re: Location of Web Site (Steve Crimm)
15. 09:19 PM - Re: Location of Web Site (Cliff Shaw)
16. 09:39 PM - 6'4" and 220 pounds (Paul Boulet)
17. 10:33 PM - Re: 6'4" and 220 pounds (Brad Newell)
Message 1
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| Subject: | IFR reliability MTBF etc |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 05/02/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>With all that said I had allways intended to upgrade to an EFIS some time in
>the future, but now I am not so sure. After getting a whack on the wing tip
>by lightning it sure has changed my opinion about mechanical devices. A lot
>of stuff went south including the Navaids and I doubt if any level of
>protection could enusre that an EFIS would survive with 100% certainty.
>
>One thing I sure would have missed during that adventure would have been an
>ASI. I am now wondering where to head with all electric / electronic panels
>after this experience.
>
>Paul
Paul, Jos, Fred
What about a Faraday cage round the avionics?
Graham
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "MR!PAUL MITCHELL" <paul.mitchell2@homecall.co.uk>
Dear all,
I have just retired and have been contemplating building a kit build aircraft.
I have a full ppl and own and fly a c150 from Hinton in the Hedges. I know I do
not want a 450 kg aircraft and even after flying many demonstrators I am still
undecided. I did like the Alpi Pioneer 300 I have never sat in or flown in
a Europa, I need your help
I flew a Jabiru 400, not for me but I was very impressed with the smoothness and
performance of the motor. Can anyone with this motor in a Europa please give
me some performance and fuel figures and why they opted for it against the
Rotax.Does it need a VP prop to get the best out of it
What I really need is to fly in one ( not looking for a freeby)
I live in Northamptonshire. Can anyone help.
Paul Mitchell paul.mitchell2@homecall.co.uk
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 20 Msgs - 02/05/05 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 05/02/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>Last Words on Tailplane Mass balance!!
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: DvdPar@aol.com
>
>Regarding the ballance weight for the horizontal tail plane. Is it realy
>critical that perfect ballance must be obtained. The trim system should take
>care of any pith up/down tendancy. Is the ballance weights job also there to
>prevent flutter.
>
>Comments please.
>
>Regards Dave Park Bld.371
Dave
Yes! It also prevents lower frequency oscillation at normal speeds. (Short
period fugoid) I can tell you that is frightening too.
Also important is the Flettner strips on the tab, those help the tab to
bite through the boundary layer which is maybe half an inch thick back there
Graham
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Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: C/S propellers |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
At 2005-02-04 17:27 -0800 Fred R. Klein wrote:
>Is there anyone out there who either:
>
> - is flying with an IVOPROP?
Fred - the only Europa I know of with an IVOPROP is kit A048, N8027U
belonging to Charles Staelhing. It was seen at Kemble in UK late last
year, so I presume Charles is over here for a while. Can't help with
getting in touch with him - I've just had his copy of the Europa
Flyer #43 returned from USA as "not at this address".
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary - email for info!
| Europa 435 G-ROWI (740 hours building) PFA #16532
| e-mail <memsec@europaclub.org.uk> website <www.europaclub.org.uk>
Message 5
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| Subject: | Re: IFR reliability MTBF etc |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net>
> > After getting a whack on the wing tip by lightning it sure
> > has changed my opinion about mechanical devices.
> Paul, Jos, Fred
> What about a Faraday cage round the avionics?
>
> Graham
Lightning goes where it wishes to go. In the case of Paul's
ILS/marker box, the thing was switched off, but his bolt traveled
along night lighting circuitry, arriving at the box via that wire.
The worst of four destructive events inside was a welding arc which
briefly struck, and part of an RF-grounding, steel card-edge guide
vaporized. No sensitive CMOS component was damaged; but even passive
components got whacked. Why it saw the case as a ground, I don't
know, and probably was just a side path of the electricity terminating
inside the box. Whatever it wants a ground to be? I recall some
document, FAA or other, concerning avionics systems in transport
aircraft, but it presumes a metal airplane as the preferential path.
However, there is a resulting, large electrostatic event within the
metal airframe, and that's where them ferrites and clamping diodes
come in. But I've never seen a general aviation box with that stuff,
nor might they accomplish anything in a plastic airplane.
Reg,
Fred F.
Message 6
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Pete Lawless" <pete@lawless.info>
Rowland
I think this one is based at Kemble for the next few months. Over on
Main Site I believe. David Hunter may know more I will email him and
see what we can find out.
Regards
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rowland
Carson
Subject: Re: Europa-List: C/S propellers
--> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson <rowil@clara.net>
At 2005-02-04 17:27 -0800 Fred R. Klein wrote:
>Is there anyone out there who either:
>
> - is flying with an IVOPROP?
Fred - the only Europa I know of with an IVOPROP is kit A048, N8027U
belonging to Charles Staelhing. It was seen at Kemble in UK late last
year, so I presume Charles is over here for a while. Can't help with
getting in touch with him - I've just had his copy of the Europa
Flyer #43 returned from USA as "not at this address".
regards
Rowland
--
| Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary - email for info!
| Europa 435 G-ROWI (740 hours building) PFA #16532
| e-mail <memsec@europaclub.org.uk> website <www.europaclub.org.uk>
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Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: RE: IFR redundancy, was 2nd battery |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
> ...
> Conductors from one wingtip to the other could be
> avoided by adding surpressor coils i suppose? Anybody
> with some specialisation in that direction?
No specialization by me for sure, but there's research as to how a
wing or fuselage must present a preferential path to wiring and
control mechanisms...down to a measure of milliohms in aluminum skin,
or that of copper mesh embedded in fiberglass.
> supressing ferrites, like you often see on
> computer connection wires.
Them's just turn EMI into heat, for like the few volts P-P from a
switching power supply cube or VGA output to monitor. Lightning along
the path of a wire...lightning I think wins. :-)
> Also preventing coils like loops in wires helps. I once
> saw a very nice panel, where every wire going to and
> coming from was left extra long nicely coiled in a perfect
> erm pickup arrangement. Looks great but any lightning
> miles away....
But a single loop of wire, 6" diam, is a small fraction of a
microhenry, which is a significant reactance only in the many
megaHertz region. In fact, a single coil of wire is Narco's
recommended oscilloscope pickup for UHF (glideslope). For lightning,
whose spike patterns are well documented -- how StrikeFinders work,
more audio freq vs. toward gigaHertz, it should be invisible. One ADF
maker says you don't shorten the antenna cable; you wind excess into a
coil and stow it.
Point is, I believe there's nothing we can do short of correct
conductive mesh. If you don't get that right, then the "action
integral" math might say just a little too much mesh resistance can
turn the wing and/or fuselage into a no-longer-structural black char?
Better to let the average bolt punch through plastic skin and travel
along wiring and/or control mechanisms. Remove headphones in the
vicinity of CBs!
Reg,
Fred F.
Message 8
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
Hi,
Both Josok and Fred have it right, of course. Lightning goes where
it pleases AND you have to be lucky. The same was said of ground crews at
sched airports as a CuNim approached. No more. Electrical tension in tnhe
air is measured in minute amounts and when it gallops the field is shut down
temporarily. The luck is in the detection these days.
Sched flyers are probably the ones to ask. As an airline and
military driver, airframe, for 40 odd years I have been hit many times.
Approaching Heathrow from India we came under threat on final (the forecast
never mentioned Cbs). the lightning hit just opposite my left foot - sort of
the plane's cheek - and drive a half-inch eyelet through the fuselage skin
and several structural members. It did litlle other damage because (a) we
were at 400 feet and there wasn't far to go to earth, and (b) the L1011 had
a good sized external surface to dissipate the charge. On another occasion
in a DC-3 we were banged near the starboard cabin heater and a flame ball
appeared in the aisle in front of the cockpit door. It calmy blew the door
off its hinges and sauntered irregularly down the aisle avoiding all the
seats. When it got to the back (near the Stewardess) it blew a hole in the
bathroom wall and disappeared. What directed it I have no idea, but we were
told that if it had touched anyone it would have killed them. One little old
grayhead said' "I'll never fly TCA again!"
In fighters, you're in and out of cloud - rapid change of polar
tension - so fast it's impossible to avoid the odd strike but seldom badly
affected because of long stream of iodized air behind.
At 20,000 amps and Lord knows how many volts, designing equipment to
fight intrusion is impossible. However as I understand, the future strike
sets out feelers (going up or down as they do) to probe the way and the
best one wins, followed by the wham which oscillates for measureable
microseconds.
In that event, design comes to the fore by convincing the probe that
'this ain't the best way', and in so doing leaves the impression that the
lightning was quelled. I don't think so. I think it just goes looking for
another route.........and i believe that is what Dave(?) encountered.
So it seems to me the best route for good luck is to fly far away
from threat (a minimum of 25 miles if possible), stay below the freezing
level, design electrical components which can absorb 'feelers', and in our
glass machines wear a chute.
While the western prairies often give good visual warning and forecasting is
very good, the UK and northwest Europe coasts can have vicious Cbs no taller
than 13,000 feet asl. In all cases good luck comes from good flight planning
and alertness.
Cheers, Ferg
Message 9
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
on 2/6/05 10:26 AM, Fergus Kyle at VE3LVO@rac.ca wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
>
> Hi,
> Both Josok and Fred have it right, of course. Lightning goes where
> it pleases AND you have to be lucky.............
Ferg,
Your post affirms once again that, thru this on-line community, I get to be
in the company of a select group of intrepid (indeed) airmen. Thank you!
Fred
A194
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 10
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
----- Original Message -----
From: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Lightning
| --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein"
<fklein@orcasonline.com>
|
| on 2/6/05 10:26 AM, Fergus Kyle at VE3LVO@rac.ca wrote:
|
| > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
| >
| > Hi,
| > Both Josok and Fred have it right, of course. Lightning goes where
| > it pleases AND you have to be lucky.............
|
| Ferg,
|
| Your post affirms once again that, thru this on-line community, I get to
be
| in the company of a select group of intrepid (indeed) airmen. Thank you!
|
Fred,
Well, I s'pose. Nobody likes a trepid one..............
Cheers, Ferg
Message 11
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
All
I have been "playing" with MS FlightSim 2004. Trying to build an Europa.
Has any one done that successfully? It appears that the files I downloaded
from the Europaowners web page are not the same as are used in 2004.
There is a FSEditor that is easy to use, I just have not idea what half of
the boxes should have in them. HELP !!!
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds, WA 98020
425 776 5555
http://www.europaowners.org/WileE
Too much rain to even go to the hanger, let alone fly today :(
Message 12
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| Subject: | Location of Web Site |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Crimm" <steve.crimm@stephenscott.com>
Flight,
I was trying to locate the web site that Dennis Vories used to show all
of his mods. The site in all of the archives is listed at
http://www.europa-usa.com/enhancements.htm but is no longer up.
Does anyone know if the contents of this site are now at a new location?
Thanks
Steve Crimm
A058
N15JN
Message 13
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| Subject: | Re: Location of Web Site |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
Steve,
Bob Jacobsen no longer hosts thqt site after selling his Europa; Cliff Shaw
can probably reach him. If you are sufficiently web-centric, perhaps you (or
others so qualified) can resurrect it...I for one found it a valuable
resource.
Fred
A194
on 2/6/05 5:46 PM, Steve Crimm at steve.crimm@stephenscott.com wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Crimm"
> <steve.crimm@stephenscott.com>
>
> Flight,
>
> I was trying to locate the web site that Dennis Vories used to show all
> of his mods. The site in all of the archives is listed at
> http://www.europa-usa.com/enhancements.htm but is no longer up.
> Does anyone know if the contents of this site are now at a new location?
>
> Thanks
>
> Steve Crimm
Message 14
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| Subject: | Location of Web Site |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Crimm" <steve.crimm@stephenscott.com>
If the contents of the site are available I am sure we can find someone to
host it.
It would be a shame to let that information disappear.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred R. Klein
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Location of Web Site
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein"
--> <fklein@orcasonline.com>
Steve,
Bob Jacobsen no longer hosts thqt site after selling his Europa; Cliff Shaw
can probably reach him. If you are sufficiently web-centric, perhaps you (or
others so qualified) can resurrect it...I for one found it a valuable
resource.
Fred
A194
on 2/6/05 5:46 PM, Steve Crimm at steve.crimm@stephenscott.com wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Crimm"
> <steve.crimm@stephenscott.com>
>
> Flight,
>
> I was trying to locate the web site that Dennis Vories used to show
all
> of his mods. The site in all of the archives is listed at
> http://www.europa-usa.com/enhancements.htm but is no longer up.
> Does anyone know if the contents of this site are now at a new location?
>
> Thanks
>
> Steve Crimm
advertising on the Matronics Forums.
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: Location of Web Site |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
Steve, Steve D, All
I spoke with Bob Jacobsen on Wednesday. He has saved the data from
Europa-USA and will get in contact with Steve D. It is still on his server.
Steve D will be able to off-load it to his EuropaOwners web page and then we
will all be able to use it.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds, WA 98020
425 776 5555
http://www.europaowners.org/WileE
Boy, did it rain here today !!!
Message 16
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| Subject: | 6'4" and 220 pounds |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Boulet <possibletodo@yahoo.com>
Hi all;
will a person 6 foot, 4 inches and 220 pounds fit into
an XS comfortably? Thanks
Paul Boulet, N914PB
Message 17
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| Subject: | 6'4" and 220 pounds |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Brad Newell" <wendigo@olympus.net>
I'm 6'3", 240 and I "fit" in an early model. The XS does not appear to be a
problem.
Brad Newell A210
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Paul Boulet
Subject: Europa-List: 6'4" and 220 pounds
--> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Boulet <possibletodo@yahoo.com>
Hi all;
will a person 6 foot, 4 inches and 220 pounds fit into
an XS comfortably? Thanks
Paul Boulet, N914PB
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