Europa-List Digest Archive

Tue 02/08/05


Total Messages Posted: 19



Today's Message Index:
----------------------
 
     1. 12:57 AM - Gascolator access hatch (Brian Hutchinson)
     2. 09:30 AM - Re: Gascolator access hatch (Ron Jones)
     3. 09:30 AM - Long / Short wing ASI? (Ronald J. Parigoris)
     4. 10:41 AM - Propeller Diameter (Fred R. Klein)
     5. 10:52 AM - Re: Gascolator access hatch (Paul McAllister)
     6. 11:32 AM - Re: Long / Short wing ASI? (Fred Fillinger)
     7. 12:31 PM - Re: Gascolator access hatch (Fred R. Klein)
     8. 12:58 PM - Re: Gascolator access hatch (Kevin And Ann Klinefelter)
     9. 01:16 PM - Re: Propeller Diameter (Duncan McFadyean)
    10. 01:29 PM - Re: Gascolator access hatch (Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com)
    11. 01:32 PM - high compression (Terry Seaver)
    12. 02:43 PM - Re: Gascolator access hatch (Fred R. Klein)
    13. 02:43 PM - Re: Propeller Diameter (Jerry Rehn)
    14. 04:10 PM - Re: Gascolator access hatch (Cliff Shaw)
    15. 05:10 PM - Replacement Fuel Hose (Kingsley Hurst)
    16. 05:17 PM - Re: Gascolator access hatch (Jerry Rehn)
    17. 05:52 PM - Re: Gascolator access hatch (Kevin And Ann Klinefelter)
    18. 06:20 PM - Roche harbor (Cliff Shaw)
    19. 06:21 PM - Re: Replacement Fuel Hose (Paul McAllister)
 
 
 


Message 1


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    Time: 12:57:17 AM PST US
    From: "Brian Hutchinson" <hutch@hangarbout.fsnet.co.uk>
    Subject: Gascolator access hatch
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Hutchinson" <hutch@hangarbout.fsnet.co.uk> Hi all, I plan to install an Andair gascolator somewhere under the rear baggage bay. I don't fancy the conventional Europa type access hatch with 4 screws to undo every time I need to check the filter bowl. It appears to me that any hatch would need to be a fair size, big enough to comfortably get your fingers in to release the safety clip and locking pin. Does anyone know if the PFA would accept a 'quick release' hinged panel in this area of the structure, something similar (but bigger) to the dipstick access hatch on the cowling? Has anyone already got an approved Mod they would be prepared to share? Brian Hutchinson Lincolnshire 357 mono 912s Airmaster No forecast finish date yet, but I think I'm now in the last 5 years!


    Message 2


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    Time: 09:30:30 AM PST US
    From: "Ron Jones" <jronjones@lineone.net>
    Subject: Re: Gascolator access hatch
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ron Jones" <jronjones@lineone.net> Hi Brian, I didn't like the idea of a hatch for access to my Andair watsit, either. I therefore made a tube by wrapping four plys of bid around the tubing left over from the aileron push-rods. (The tube was well waxwd first, of course!) The GRP tube is exactly the right inside diam to take a standard fuel check/tester (the clear plastic sort). I bonded the tube directly under the Andair which is fitted with the usual T-shaped drain/test valve. All I have to do now is bend down, pop the tester up the tube and push to take a sample! Hope this helps, Regds, Ron Jones.


    Message 3


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    Time: 09:30:31 AM PST US
    From: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us>
    Subject: Long / Short wing ASI?
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" <rparigor@suffolk.lib.ny.us> I have a Winter ASI with Short Wing markings. What have others done when switching to Long Wings to satisfy DAR? Thx. Ron Parigoris


    Message 4


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    Time: 10:41:23 AM PST US
    Subject: Propeller Diameter
    From: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com> Hi yu All, After checking the Archive, it appears that most trigear Europas are flying with a 3 blade 64" diameter C/S propeller. I'm still unclear as to whether or not the 64" diameter is appropriate for the XS mono due to difference in ground clearance. Can anyone confirm?..or advise on a smaller (say 62") C/S prop for the mono! Sorry for this elementary question, but I go by the mantra that the only stupid question is that which is not asked. Fred A194


    Message 5


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    Time: 10:52:25 AM PST US
    From: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
    Subject: Re: Gascolator access hatch
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net> Hi all, The only comment I would make is that I had a lot of trouble with debris getting under the seat of the seal and I could never stop the darn thing dripping. I never use the drain valve any more, I just take the bowl off the bottom empty it out and put it back. regards, Paul > Hi Brian, > I didn't like the idea of a hatch for access to my Andair watsit, either. > I > therefore made a tube by wrapping four plys of bid around the tubing left > over from the aileron push-rods. (The tube was well waxwd first, of > course!) > The GRP tube is exactly the right inside diam to take a standard fuel > check/tester (the clear plastic sort). > I bonded the tube directly under the Andair which is fitted with the usual > T-shaped drain/test valve. > All I have to do now is bend down, pop the tester up the tube and push to > take a sample! > > Hope this helps, > Regds, > Ron Jones. > >


    Message 6


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    Time: 11:32:16 AM PST US
    From: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Long / Short wing ASI?
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net> > I have a Winter ASI with Short Wing markings. > > What have others done when switching to Long Wings to satisfy DAR? > > Thx. > Ron Parigoris The DAR/ FAA signoff is essentially permission to go flight test for 40 hours to see what the various airspeed limits are, among everything else. It should make no difference that it's a kit, and the kit mfr has specified numbers. Maybe your flaps are reflexed a bit. And you have to determine installation error and instrument accuracy. In the interest of safety, we should have the right to determine exact stall speeds. Per the Advisory Circular for homebuilts, (AC 20-27??), the listing of the required markings/placards further does not mention ASI. This doesn't mean one might mark the instrument per Europa during construction, but only that FAA cannot make you do that. Reg, Fred F.


    Message 7


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    Time: 12:31:59 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Gascolator access hatch
    From: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com> Can't the gascolator be mounted so that the push up drain valve simply extends thru the underside of the fuselage, albeit w/ a possible split fairing fore and aft for those who are hypersensitive to parasitic drag? Fred A194


    Message 8


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    Time: 12:58:21 PM PST US
    From: Kevin And Ann Klinefelter <kevann@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: Gascolator access hatch
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Kevin And Ann Klinefelter <kevann@verizon.net> Yes, but then if you belly in you may break the valve off and spark a fire. Kevin A211 Fred R. Klein wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com> > >Can't the gascolator be mounted so that the push up drain valve simply >extends thru the underside of the fuselage, albeit w/ a possible split >fairing fore and aft for those who are hypersensitive to parasitic drag? > >Fred >A194 > > > >


    Message 9


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    Time: 01:16:24 PM PST US
    From: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
    Subject: Re: Propeller Diameter
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk> A listing of UK prop sizes is shown at http://www.pfa.org.uk/engineering_services/propeller_substitution.asp then click on PFA Information Letter 36 and scroll down to page 14 + 15. The largest shown is 66" (G-OSLD, 914 tri). I wonder if it performs any better? Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com> Subject: Europa-List: Propeller Diameter > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com> > > Hi yu All, > > After checking the Archive, it appears that most trigear Europas are flying > with a 3 blade 64" diameter C/S propeller. > > I'm still unclear as to whether or not the 64" diameter is appropriate for > the XS mono due to difference in ground clearance. > > Can anyone confirm?..or advise on a smaller (say 62") C/S prop for the mono! > > Sorry for this elementary question, but I go by the mantra that the only > stupid question is that which is not asked. > > Fred > A194 > >


    Message 10


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    Time: 01:29:21 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Gascolator access hatch
    From: Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com
    02/08/2005 04:28:24 PM, Serialize complete at 02/08/2005 04:28:24 PM --> Europa-List message posted by: Dave_Miller@avivacanada.com I've done this with the water drains and gascolator - actually they are dropped thru the inspection covers aerodynamic fairings as well ! Dave A061 do not archive "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com> Sent by: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com 02/08/05 03:35 PM Please respond to europa-list To: <europa-list@matronics.com> cc: Subject: Re: Europa-List: Gascolator access hatch --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com> Can't the gascolator be mounted so that the push up drain valve simply extends thru the underside of the fuselage, albeit w/ a possible split fairing fore and aft for those who are hypersensitive to parasitic drag? Fred A194


    Message 11


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    Time: 01:32:12 PM PST US
    From: Terry Seaver <terrys@cisco.com>
    Subject: high compression
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Terry Seaver <terrys@cisco.com> Hi all, We have a Europa XS with Rotax 912S that has been flying about 400 hours. During our annual inspections we have been taking the cylinder compressions using an automotive compression tester. The first two inpections found the compression to be about 180 psi per cylinder. during the last inspection (about 10 months ago) the compression readings went up about 15-20 psi. At the time we thought this was probably the fault of the compression gauge, but now wonder if it might instead be real. We have had more difficult starting this past year or two than when the plane/engine were new. We have changed plugs, balanced carbs, dissasmbled and cleaned the carbs, and installed a new battery, all to no avail. I wonder if it could be the increased compression causing starting problems. Also, aren't you more likely to get detonation as the compression goes up? If/when carbon and/or lead deposits build up on the head and pistons, the compression will go up. We have heard back yard mechanic stories about pouring water or ATF (automatic trans fluid) down the carb while the engine is running to clear the deposits out. An auto mechanic friend says higher compression from carbon deposits can make a car fail a smog test (nitrous oxide emissions), and is fixed by filling the cylinders with a special cleaner overnight, then running some more thru the carb the next day. Has anyone seen their Rotax compression go up? If so, did it start harder, and what did you do to fix it? regards, Terry Seaver A135 / N135TD


    Message 12


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    Time: 02:43:26 PM PST US
    Subject: Re: Gascolator access hatch
    From: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com> Kevin, Excellent point!..and admirable forethought!..recessing it might just be worth the trouble! Fred A194 DO NOT ARCHIVE on 2/9/05 12:58 PM, Kevin And Ann Klinefelter at kevann@verizon.net wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: Kevin And Ann Klinefelter > <kevann@verizon.net> > > Yes, but then if you belly in you may break the valve off and spark a fire. > > Kevin > A211 > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com> >> >> Can't the gascolator be mounted so that the push up drain valve simply >> extends thru the underside of the fuselage, albeit w/ a possible split >> fairing fore and aft for those who are hypersensitive to parasitic drag? >> >> Fred >> A194 >> >>


    Message 13


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    Time: 02:43:26 PM PST US
    From: "Jerry Rehn" <rehn@rockisland.com>
    Subject: Re: Propeller Diameter
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jerry Rehn" <rehn@rockisland.com> Fred,64 inch is what I have. Provided by Airmaster. I understood that is what performed best during their tests. Jerry 914 XS Mono ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com> Subject: Europa-List: Propeller Diameter > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" > <fklein@orcasonline.com> > > Hi yu All, > > After checking the Archive, it appears that most trigear Europas are > flying > with a 3 blade 64" diameter C/S propeller. > > I'm still unclear as to whether or not the 64" diameter is appropriate for > the XS mono due to difference in ground clearance. > > Can anyone confirm?..or advise on a smaller (say 62") C/S prop for the > mono! > > Sorry for this elementary question, but I go by the mantra that the only > stupid question is that which is not asked. > > Fred > A194 > > >


    Message 14


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    Time: 04:10:32 PM PST US
    From: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
    Subject: Re: Gascolator access hatch
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net> You will have a lot of aluminum and rubber to ware away before the water drains start dragging the runway. If an planed gear up is made the fuel shut-off should have been turned off. Just my thoughts. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Gascolator access hatch Do not archive > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" > <fklein@orcasonline.com> > > Kevin, > > Excellent point!..and admirable forethought!..recessing it might just be > worth the trouble! > > Fred > A194 > > DO NOT ARCHIVE > > on 2/9/05 12:58 PM, Kevin And Ann Klinefelter at kevann@verizon.net wrote: > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: Kevin And Ann Klinefelter >> <kevann@verizon.net> >> >> Yes, but then if you belly in you may break the valve off and spark a >> fire. >> >> Kevin >> A211 >> >> >>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" >>> <fklein@orcasonline.com> >>> >>> Can't the gascolator be mounted so that the push up drain valve simply >>> extends thru the underside of the fuselage, albeit w/ a possible split >>> fairing fore and aft for those who are hypersensitive to parasitic drag? >>> >>> Fred >>> A194 >>> >>> > > >


    Message 15


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    Time: 05:10:31 PM PST US
    From: "Kingsley Hurst" <hurstkr@growzone.com.au>
    Subject: Replacement Fuel Hose
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <hurstkr@growzone.com.au> All, I am contemplating exchanging the Europa supplied fuel hoses with automotive fuel injection hose to SAE30R9 specification. This hose does not have any SS braiding so could others tell me what they have done to protect unbraided hose in the wheel well of their monos please. Any ideas gratefully received thanks. Kingsley


    Message 16


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    Time: 05:17:10 PM PST US
    From: "Jerry Rehn" <rehn@rockisland.com>
    Subject: Re: Gascolator access hatch
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jerry Rehn" <rehn@rockisland.com> Cliff, you are probably right, however most (general aviation) that land gear up discover the gear is up when their prop hits the ground! I mounted my gascolator 4 inches above the bottom of fuse. with an access door just below. One needs to lay under the plane to check it but I believe you do when the drains are below anyway. Not a big deal. BTW I have never found water in my gascolator . Have you? Why don't you fly up to Roche one of thes days? Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Gascolator access hatch > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net> > > > You will have a lot of aluminum and rubber to ware away before the water > drains start dragging the runway. If an planed gear up is made the fuel > shut-off should have been turned off. Just my thoughts. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com> > To: <europa-list@matronics.com> > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Gascolator access hatch > Do not archive > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" >> <fklein@orcasonline.com> >> >> Kevin, >> >> Excellent point!..and admirable forethought!..recessing it might just be >> worth the trouble! >> >> Fred >> A194 >> >> DO NOT ARCHIVE >> >> on 2/9/05 12:58 PM, Kevin And Ann Klinefelter at kevann@verizon.net >> wrote: >> >>> --> Europa-List message posted by: Kevin And Ann Klinefelter >>> <kevann@verizon.net> >>> >>> Yes, but then if you belly in you may break the valve off and spark a >>> fire. >>> >>> Kevin >>> A211 >>> >>> >>>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" >>>> <fklein@orcasonline.com> >>>> >>>> Can't the gascolator be mounted so that the push up drain valve simply >>>> extends thru the underside of the fuselage, albeit w/ a possible split >>>> fairing fore and aft for those who are hypersensitive to parasitic >>>> drag? >>>> >>>> Fred >>>> A194 >>>> >>>> >> >> >> > > >


    Message 17


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    Time: 05:52:22 PM PST US
    From: Kevin And Ann Klinefelter <kevann@verizon.net>
    Subject: Re: Gascolator access hatch
    --> Europa-List message posted by: Kevin And Ann Klinefelter <kevann@verizon.net> Thanks...but I just copied Paul McAllister thanks to his web-site. Kevin A211 almost done with the primer, soon to learn how to paint an airplane Fred R. Klein wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com> > >Kevin, > >Excellent point!..and admirable forethought!..recessing it might just be >worth the trouble! > >Fred >A194 > >DO NOT ARCHIVE > >on 2/9/05 12:58 PM, Kevin And Ann Klinefelter at kevann@verizon.net wrote: > > > >>--> Europa-List message posted by: Kevin And Ann Klinefelter >><kevann@verizon.net> >> >>Yes, but then if you belly in you may break the valve off and spark a fire. >> >>Kevin >>A211 >> >> >> >> >>>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com> >>> >>>Can't the gascolator be mounted so that the push up drain valve simply >>>extends thru the underside of the fuselage, albeit w/ a possible split >>>fairing fore and aft for those who are hypersensitive to parasitic drag? >>> >>>Fred >>>A194 >>> >>> >>> >>> > > > >


    Message 18


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    Time: 06:20:54 PM PST US
    From: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
    Subject: Roche harbor
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net> Jerry Would that be a "Drop of the Hat" fly-in? :) I think Betty and I will be able to fly out tomorrow afternoon. How about that? By the way, I have made a couple flights trying to compare air speed with and with out the wheel pants and gear leg fairings. I am not a test pilot. It seems that conditions are a bit different each time I fly. I first flew on a very cold day with only the gear leg fairings. I used the Dynow D10 to read OAT and pressure altitude. I was at 3000 PA every time I took these readings. The first flight I got 129K. Then I flew with the gear leg fairing off, and got 126K. Today I flew, had a little bit more fuel onboard, about the same temperature as the last flight. With every thing faired up and a "good" paint job on my wheel pants, I got 139K. I did not expect to see that much increase. I said I am not a test pilot, so can't explain what reason for the 13K difference. Maybe I just had a good day today. It was "severe clear" and sunny. Very present to fly. Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 http://www.europaowners.org/WileE Planning to fly Wednesday again. Fly when I can and having fun ! Do Not Archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jerry Rehn" <rehn@rockisland.com> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Gascolator access hatch > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jerry Rehn" <rehn@rockisland.com> > > Cliff, you are probably right, however most (general aviation) that land > gear up discover the gear is up when their prop hits the ground! I mounted > my gascolator 4 inches above the bottom of fuse. with an access door just > below. One needs to lay under the plane to check it but I believe you do > when the drains are below anyway. Not a big deal. BTW I have never found > water in my gascolator . Have you? Why don't you fly up to Roche one of > thes > days? > Jerry > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net> > To: <europa-list@matronics.com> > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Gascolator access hatch > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net> >> >> >> You will have a lot of aluminum and rubber to ware away before the water >> drains start dragging the runway. If an planed gear up is made the fuel >> shut-off should have been turned off. Just my thoughts. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com> >> To: <europa-list@matronics.com> >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Gascolator access hatch >> Do not archive >> >>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" >>> <fklein@orcasonline.com> >>> >>> Kevin, >>> >>> Excellent point!..and admirable forethought!..recessing it might just be >>> worth the trouble! >>> >>> Fred >>> A194 >>> >>> DO NOT ARCHIVE >>> >>> on 2/9/05 12:58 PM, Kevin And Ann Klinefelter at kevann@verizon.net >>> wrote: >>> >>>> --> Europa-List message posted by: Kevin And Ann Klinefelter >>>> <kevann@verizon.net> >>>> >>>> Yes, but then if you belly in you may break the valve off and spark a >>>> fire. >>>> >>>> Kevin >>>> A211 >>>> >>>> >>>>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein" >>>>> <fklein@orcasonline.com> >>>>> >>>>> Can't the gascolator be mounted so that the push up drain valve simply >>>>> extends thru the underside of the fuselage, albeit w/ a possible split >>>>> fairing fore and aft for those who are hypersensitive to parasitic >>>>> drag? >>>>> >>>>> Fred >>>>> A194 >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > >


    Message 19


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    Time: 06:21:50 PM PST US
    From: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
    Subject: Re: Replacement Fuel Hose
    --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net> Kingsley, With a bit of patience you can get the braid off the old hose and thread it onto the new stuff. Just put on some leather gloves, it will only take an hour or so. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kingsley Hurst" <hurstkr@growzone.com.au> > > I am contemplating exchanging the Europa supplied fuel hoses with > automotive fuel injection hose to SAE30R9 specification. > > This hose does not have any SS braiding so could others tell me what > they have done to protect unbraided hose in the wheel well of their > monos please. > > Any ideas gratefully received thanks. > > Kingsley >




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