Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:15 AM - Re: Aileron push tube travel (Jeremy Davey)
2. 01:45 AM - Re: Aileron push tube travel (graham p pocock)
3. 02:19 AM - checkout in a monowheel (Graham Singleton)
4. 02:33 AM - test flying my own creation (Graham Singleton)
5. 03:55 AM - Re: checkout in a monowheel (Barahona Alonso, Francisco Javier)
6. 04:15 AM - Re: Just for the record...... (Raimo Toivio)
7. 05:55 AM - Brake Parts (Jim Butcher)
8. 07:42 AM - Re: Baltics / Colditz Trip. Late June (David Joyce)
9. 08:48 AM - e-mail address for Robert Borger (Erich Trombley)
10. 09:33 AM - Re: Brake Parts (Alan Burrows)
11. 10:04 AM - 24v ELECTIRCAL SYSTEM (Nigel Harrison)
12. 10:35 AM - Re: 24v ELECTRICAL SYSTEM (Richard Holder)
13. 10:41 AM - While on the subject of Europa characteristics (N55XS)
14. 11:04 AM - Re: Brake Parts (MICHAEL PARKIN)
15. 11:39 AM - Re: 24v ELECTIRCAL SYSTEM (Rob Housman)
16. 11:44 AM - Re: 24v ELECTIRCAL SYSTEM (Jos Okhuijsen)
17. 01:25 PM - Re: Baltics / Colditz Trip. Late June (Duncan McFadyean)
18. 01:31 PM - Re: Gascolator access hatch (Duncan McFadyean)
19. 01:48 PM - Re: checkout in a monowheel (Carl Pattinson)
20. 03:01 PM - Re: While on the subject of Europa characteristics (R.C.Harrison)
21. 04:18 PM - Re: While on the subject of Europa characteristics (Kingsley Hurst)
22. 04:44 PM - Re: Brake Parts (Rob Housman)
23. 05:30 PM - Re: Gascolator access hatch (Cliff Shaw)
24. 05:36 PM - Re: Re: While on the subject of Europa characteristics (N55XS)
25. 05:38 PM - Re: While on the subject of Europa characteristics (N55XS)
26. 06:05 PM - Re: Brake Parts (JEFF ROBERTS)
27. 06:18 PM - Re: Gascolator access hatch (Kingsley Hurst)
28. 06:24 PM - Expanding Foam (Steve Crimm)
29. 06:39 PM - Re: While on the subject of Europa characteristics (Cliff Shaw)
30. 07:07 PM - Re: Expanding Foam (Cliff Shaw)
31. 07:49 PM - Re: Expanding Foam (Steve Crimm)
32. 08:06 PM - Re: Expanding Foam (David Glauser)
33. 08:22 PM - Re: Expanding Foam (Paul McAllister)
34. 08:56 PM - Re: Expanding Foam (Fred Fillinger)
35. 11:18 PM - Re: test flying my own creation (Andrew Sarangan)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Aileron push tube travel |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
Andrew,
Builders often find this on one side - the other has a steeper angle on the
pushrod and doesnt suffer. You have the same problem if it's impacting on
the double rib.
If that's the case, just pop a 1/16" aluminium shim under the bellcrank to
raise it a touch.
Regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative
PFA EC Member
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is
possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation.
Tail done
Standard XS wings with mods underway
CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)
1280 build hours to date
Intended fit:
Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop
Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Andrew Sarangan
Subject: Europa-List: Aileron push tube travel
--> Europa-List message posted by: Andrew Sarangan <asarangan@yahoo.com>
I just finished assembling the aileron push tubes. It seems no matter
how much I expand the rib holes, the tube always contacts the ribs when
it reaches its travel limit. This limits the max travel of the push
tube. I can expand the rib holes even further, but I was wondering what
the normal travel is for these push tubes. How many cm would you say
the tube goes left/right? I don't want to expand the holes any more
than really necessary. Thanks!
=====
Andrew Sarangan
http://www.geocities.com/asarangan
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Aileron push tube travel |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "graham p pocock" <graham@pocock56.fsnet.co.uk>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Andrew Sarangan <asarangan@yahoo.com>
>
> I just finished assembling the aileron push tubes. It seems no matter
> how much I expand the rib holes, the tube always contacts the ribs when
Andrew
I had this problem but mine was close to the spar. My inspector said that
they needed to be at least 1/4'' away to allow for flexing and possible temp
induced gap changes. As Jeremy suggests he told me to make up an aluminum
spacer 1/16'' to fit under the bellcrank. The manual is not crystal clear
as to which way round to fit the W12 and W13. Worth a recheck. One of us
might have this wrong! But I'm sure mine's OK. Hope this helps.
Graham Pocock
Kit 535
Message 3
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| Subject: | checkout in a monowheel |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 09/02/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>However, I have 25 hours in taildraggers (500 hours total)
>and since I'm having trouble getting a checked out Europa pilot to accompany
>me feel like I'm ready to land the plane myself.
>
>I know some of you did the same thing...just don't remember who it
>was. I'd like
>to hear from pilots that jumped in without any more training than I have.
>Thanks
>
>Paul Boulet, N914PB (plane located Mesa, Arizona)
Paul
you need a few hours armchair flying. Get it firmly fixed in your mental
autopilot that you must not land until the tail wheel is on the ground.
Then, as soon as you feel it touch, Stick Hard Back. Now, concentrate very
hard on keeping it straight, you need to spot and correct any yaw the
instant it happens, which it will.
If, or should I say when?!? you land mainwheel first, you must continue to
fly the airplane until it stops, much harder because the effect of the
ground adds more variables
Graham
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Message 4
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| Subject: | test flying my own creation |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 09/02/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>Subject: RE: Europa-List: test flying my own creation
>
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bob Jacobsen" <jacobsenra@hotmail.com>
>
>Hi all, yes I am still here (lurking)
You're always welcome Bob! Once family, always family
Graham
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Message 5
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| Subject: | checkout in a monowheel |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Barahona Alonso, Francisco Javier" <Javier.Barahona@aeasa.com>
I would like to share my personal experience with this subject.
The first step in the monowheel training, as recommended in the manual, should
be the control of the plane in ground. At this moment, you must be extremely cautious
with the speed to avoid get involuntary airborne.
That is exactly what happened with me. I had a rough time because I had no previous
experience with taildraggers. Fortunately, I was able, after several trials,
to land without damage but the result could have been very different.
Best regards
Javier Barahona
-----Mensaje original-----
De: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]En nombre de Graham
Singleton
Enviado el: jueves, 10 de febrero de 2005 11:22
Para: europa-list@matronics.com
Asunto: Europa-List: checkout in a monowheel
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
At 23:56 09/02/2005 -0800, you wrote:
>However, I have 25 hours in taildraggers (500 hours total)
>and since I'm having trouble getting a checked out Europa pilot to accompany
>me feel like I'm ready to land the plane myself.
>
>I know some of you did the same thing...just don't remember who it
>was. I'd like
>to hear from pilots that jumped in without any more training than I have.
>Thanks
>
>Paul Boulet, N914PB (plane located Mesa, Arizona)
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Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Just for the record...... |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Raimo Toivio" <raimo.toivio@rwm.fi>
----- Original Message -----
From: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: Europa-List: Just for the record......
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
>
> Hi! Peter.
> Re:- "Scandinavian Sortie" Europa Flyer.
> Not wishing to be pedantic but G-PTAG must have credit where it's due !
> G-PTAG Europa KIT 337/MKI/Jabiru 3300 with myself and Ivor Phillips was
> the FIRST EUROPA TO FLY IN FINLAND 3 YEARS AGO, but also kind courtesy
> of Raimo Toivio and his beautiful family and state of the art
> accommodation and sauna . Now if you were to say the first Mono Rigged
> Europa or Rotax powered Europa I'd retire gracefully on the matter !
>
Yes, I am honoured to prove that!
How I know that?
I think It had to be true,
because I was in control,
stick with dozens of buttons was in my hand,
I heard Jabirus strong and low growling
and saw plenty of air between G-PTAG
and one house, which look like my home.
Raimo M W Toivio
assembling fuel filler hose
OH-XRT #417
OH-CVK
OH-BLL
37500 Lempaala
Finland
tel + 358 3 3753 777
fax + 358 3 3753 100
gsm + 358 40 590 1450
raimo.toivio@rwm.fi
www.rwm.fi
Message 7
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Butcher" <europa@triton.net>
Does anyone know where to purchase rebuild parts for the Kart Components master
cylinder for a monowheel? Ours are all gummed up.
Also, is Dot 3 or Dot 4 brake fluid OK to use? I think the messages with brake
fluid problems were all with the Tri Gear brakes.
Thanks
Jim Butcher A185
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: Baltics / Colditz Trip. Late June |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
Duncan, It seems a pity to miss Lundy off the list of great Devon Strut fly
outs. It's an absolutely stunning destination, with great food and walks,
and the added spice of 2 planes having crashed there during last year's
event! Having said which, I believe they have been going there for 12 yrs or
more with up to 40 planes and no previous mishap. The landing strip is no
where near as challenging as Bill Wynne's strip.
Regards, David G-XSDJ
----- Original Message -----
From: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
> <> PS. apart from the trips published already, are there any other plans
> being made for Europa club trips?>>
>
> The better of the Devon Strut fly-ins
> http://www.devonstrut.co.uk/pages/events.htm
> are Bolt Head 5 June, Branscombe 28 June and Roserrow 28 August.
Message 9
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| Subject: | e-mail address for Robert Borger |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Erich Trombley" <erichdtrombley@juno.com>
Does anyone have an e-mail address for Robert Borger?
Thanks
Erich Trombley
N28ET
Classic Mono 914
Now includes pop-up blocker!
Only $14.95/month -visit http://www.juno.com/surf to sign up today!
Message 10
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" <alan@kestrel-insurance.com>
Kart Components are a karting manufacturer and used to advertise
regularly in the Karting Monthly magazine. It is a few years since I
last read that publication, but I'm sure you will still find them in
there. They should also be on the web under Kart racing.
Hope that helps.
Alan
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Butcher
Subject: Europa-List: Brake Parts
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Butcher" <europa@triton.net>
Does anyone know where to purchase rebuild parts for the Kart Components
master cylinder for a monowheel? Ours are all gummed up.
Also, is Dot 3 or Dot 4 brake fluid OK to use? I think the messages
with brake fluid problems were all with the Tri Gear brakes.
Thanks
Jim Butcher A185
Message 11
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| Subject: | 24v ELECTIRCAL SYSTEM |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Harrison" <naharrison@manx.net>
Dear all,
It would appear that I'm unusual in planning to install a 24V system in my
Europa. Skydrive have advised re the alternator saying "The internal
alternator gives an AC voltage above 24 V at a speed of about 3000 rpm,
which may possibly be suitable, but you would have to design or procure a
rectifier/regulator for 24 V."
Does anyone have any information on a suitable rectifier/regulator?
Thanks
Nigel Harrison
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Message 12
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| Subject: | Re: 24v ELECTRICAL SYSTEM |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Richard Holder <rholder@avnet.co.uk>
Nigel Harrison wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Harrison" <naharrison@manx.net>
>
>
> Dear all,
> It would appear that I'm unusual in planning to install a 24V system in my
> Europa. Skydrive have advised re the alternator saying "The internal
> alternator gives an AC voltage above 24 V at a speed of about 3000 rpm,
> which may possibly be suitable, but you would have to design or procure a
> rectifier/regulator for 24 V."
> Does anyone have any information on a suitable rectifier/regulator?
> Thanks
> Nigel Harrison
I guess my question, and maybe others is : WHY ?
I am certainly not sure that the output which maxes at 19A
at 12v would be as much as 19A at 24V.
Better to stick to the design as already proven. Have two
batteries, with charging and changeover if you wish. A
17Ah 24V battery will be about the same weight as two 17Ah
12V batteries [and has the same energy capacity].
In normal use - have only one battery on line, but
alternate (I mean swop from one to the other) to keep them
both charged. Then if you have a problem with the
alternator, you can run the on-line battery down to almost
zero, and then you can change over and do the same with
the other.
Having two 17Ah batteries might be better than one 34Ah
battery, but two 12 Ah would be sufficient.
If you have 912 or 914 then 12V is sufficient for
starting. If you have 912S, or plan to order one, make
sure you have the Heavy Duty Starter.
I am not sure about 24V through the 12V starter but it
might be OK as it is very short duration usage. (The
RS1600 rally car had a 12V starter but as it was a pig to
start when hot it had two batteries and used 24 volts for
starting. there was a clever system of relays to change
the batteries from parallel (for normal use and charging)
to series (for starting). It worked well except when one
of the relays got a bit tardy - at which point there
tended to be a dead short !
Also keep in mind that the quoted figure of 24V above 3000
rpm may be a peak voltage which would be somewhat reduced
after rectification. To charge a 24V battery you need 28V
or more after rectification to DC.
The avionics will run at 24V, but what about the fuel
pump, trim motor and the flap motor ? Also the engine rpm,
temp and pressure gauges ?
After all if you have a charging problem you don't want to
be up there any longer than necessary. And if the problem
is in the alternator windings don't fogetthat there are 10
sets. 8 are used for charging and the other 2 in the same
location are used for the magnetos.
Just my two cents worth !
Richard
Richard F.W. Holder 01279 842804 (POTS)
Bell House, Bell Lane, 01279 842942 (fax)
Widford, Ware, Herts, 07860 367423 (mobile)
SG12 8SH email : richard.holder@avnet.co.uk
Europa Classic Tri-gear : G-OWWW, High Cross
PA-28-181 : Piper Archer : G-JANA, EGSG (Stapleford)
Message 13
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| Subject: | While on the subject of Europa characteristics |
--> Europa-List message posted by: N55XS <topglock@cox.net>
I wonder if any of you Tri-gear flyers would be so kind as to comment on
any "characteristics" you've noticed on the takeoff/landing of your
aircraft. Anything in particular one should be on the lookout for?.
Details, please. Thanks in advance...
--
Jeff - A055
Getting close to FWF time...
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Message 14
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "MICHAEL PARKIN" <mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com>
Try Europa 2004 - that is where I obtained my new seal.
regards
MP
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Butcher" <europa@triton.net>
Subject: Europa-List: Brake Parts
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Butcher" <europa@triton.net>
>
> Does anyone know where to purchase rebuild parts for the Kart Components
> master cylinder for a monowheel? Ours are all gummed up.
>
> Also, is Dot 3 or Dot 4 brake fluid OK to use? I think the messages with
> brake fluid problems were all with the Tri Gear brakes.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jim Butcher A185
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | 24v ELECTIRCAL SYSTEM |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <robh@hyperion-ef.us>
This question should be posed to the AeroElectric-List
(http://www.matronics.com/subscription),
hosted by the same matronics.com that hosts this list. Also highly
recommended is http://www.aeroelectric.com/ where you may even find your
answer directly.
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Nigel Harrison
Subject: Europa-List: 24v ELECTIRCAL SYSTEM
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Nigel Harrison" <naharrison@manx.net>
Dear all,
It would appear that I'm unusual in planning to install a 24V system in my
Europa. Skydrive have advised re the alternator saying "The internal
alternator gives an AC voltage above 24 V at a speed of about 3000 rpm,
which may possibly be suitable, but you would have to design or procure a
rectifier/regulator for 24 V."
Does anyone have any information on a suitable rectifier/regulator?
Thanks
Nigel Harrison
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Message 16
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| Subject: | Re: 24v ELECTIRCAL SYSTEM |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jos Okhuijsen" <josok-e@ukolo.fi>
Hi Nigel,
It sounds that you are put on a wrong track by a loose remark, intended to
present something theoretical.
Look again at the "possible" and "but". A real 24 V alternator would
produce 48 volts and more at high rpms.
These overkills are needed to give a good charge at low rpms. Thats why
generators need regulators, and broken regulators can fry systems. My 10
cents: Don't start using an alternator out of spec.
Regerds,
Jos Okhuijsen
Message 17
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| Subject: | Re: Baltics / Colditz Trip. Late June |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
David,
I left Lundy off as I couldn't personally recommend it; I've not been there.
In addition to the two crashes there were also some near misses. Personally
I don't like the risks involved (including the long sea crossing, twice in a
day!), but accept that others have different priorities.
Rgds.,
Duncan.
----- Original Message -----
From: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Baltics / Colditz Trip. Late June
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce"
<davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
>
> Duncan, It seems a pity to miss Lundy off the list of great Devon Strut
fly
> outs. It's an absolutely stunning destination, with great food and walks,
> and the added spice of 2 planes having crashed there during last year's
> event! Having said which, I believe they have been going there for 12 yrs
or
> more with up to 40 planes and no previous mishap. The landing strip is no
> where near as challenging as Bill Wynne's strip.
> Regards, David G-XSDJ
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
> > <> PS. apart from the trips published already, are there any other plans
> > being made for Europa club trips?>>
> >
> > The better of the Devon Strut fly-ins
> > http://www.devonstrut.co.uk/pages/events.htm
> > are Bolt Head 5 June, Branscombe 28 June and Roserrow 28 August.
>
>
Message 18
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| Subject: | Re: Gascolator access hatch |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
Oops!
Wrong Roche. The one I was referring to is in Cornwall,UK.
Duncan Mcf.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Gascolator access hatch
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
>
> Duncan and Jerry
>
> Jerry, Betty and I had a wonderful time with you today. Thanks. The tour
of
> your garage construction project was inspiring. You must get it finished
so
> you can fly your Europa more often.
>
> FYI Roche Harbor (WA09) is a paved, private strip. It is 4300 long and
> sloped down hill to the west and the harbor. Trees (tall) at either end
and
> narrow (30) make for good practice for "rookie" pilots like me. But
Betty
> told me after we landed the it was "good" , so I am happy with my flying
> and landings. The weather was just perfect today in the "Great
Northwest".
>
> Cliff Shaw
> 1041 Euclid ave.
> Edmonds, WA 98020
> 425 776 5555
> http://www.europaowners.org/WileE
>
> flew for 1.4HOB , 3000' ,143+ MPH , 5.8 Gal.(us) (I love my Europa)
> >
> > <<Why don't you fly up to Roche one of thes
> >> days?>>
> >
> > Has Roche been extended yet?
> > A Europa would be able to fly in, but not out (?)
> >
> > Duncan McF.
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Jerry Rehn" <rehn@rockisland.com>
> > To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Gascolator access hatch
> >
> >
> >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jerry Rehn" <rehn@rockisland.com>
> >>
> >> Cliff, you are probably right, however most (general aviation) that
land
> >> gear up discover the gear is up when their prop hits the ground! I
> >> mounted
> >> my gascolator 4 inches above the bottom of fuse. with an access door
just
> >> below. One needs to lay under the plane to check it but I believe you
do
> >> when the drains are below anyway. Not a big deal. BTW I have never
found
> >> water in my gascolator . Have you? Why don't you fly up to Roche one of
> > thes
> >> days?
> >> Jerry
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
> >> To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Gascolator access hatch
> >>
> >>
> >> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw"
<flyinggpa@comcast.net>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> > You will have a lot of aluminum and rubber to ware away before the
> >> > water
> >> > drains start dragging the runway. If an planed gear up is made the
fuel
> >> > shut-off should have been turned off. Just my thoughts.
> >> >
> >> > ----- Original Message -----
> >> > From: "Fred R. Klein" <fklein@orcasonline.com>
> >> > To: <europa-list@matronics.com>
> >> > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Gascolator access hatch
> >> > Do not archive
> >> >
> >> >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein"
> >> >> <fklein@orcasonline.com>
> >> >>
> >> >> Kevin,
> >> >>
> >> >> Excellent point!..and admirable forethought!..recessing it might
just
> > be
> >> >> worth the trouble!
> >> >>
> >> >> Fred
> >> >> A194
> >> >>
> >> >> DO NOT ARCHIVE
> >> >>
> >> >> on 2/9/05 12:58 PM, Kevin And Ann Klinefelter at kevann@verizon.net
> >> >> wrote:
> >> >>
> >> >>> --> Europa-List message posted by: Kevin And Ann Klinefelter
> >> >>> <kevann@verizon.net>
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Yes, but then if you belly in you may break the valve off and spark
a
> >> >>> fire.
> >> >>>
> >> >>> Kevin
> >> >>> A211
> >> >>>
> >> >>>
> >> >>>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred R. Klein"
> >> >>>> <fklein@orcasonline.com>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Can't the gascolator be mounted so that the push up drain valve
> > simply
> >> >>>> extends thru the underside of the fuselage, albeit w/ a possible
> > split
> >> >>>> fairing fore and aft for those who are hypersensitive to parasitic
> >> >>>> drag?
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>> Fred
> >> >>>> A194
> >> >>>>
> >> >>>>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> >
> >> >
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>
>
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: checkout in a monowheel |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Carl Pattinson" <carl@flyers.freeserve.co.uk>
Can I just add one thing to Grahams excellent advice.
If at all possible practice your first few landings, takeoffs on a grass
runway. The aircraft is much easier to handle on grass. Also make sure the
mainwheel is inflated to the correct pressure (20psi from memory). If you
overinflate it chances are you will bounce on landing. Also, get the
approach speed spot on or you will float down the runway for a long time.
As Graham says, keep the aircraft straight BUT use small movements of your
feet. If you bang in a bootful of rudder chances are the aircraft will
groundloop and you will lose the prop (nearly every mono pilot has - at some
time or other).
Have fun.
>
> Paul
> you need a few hours armchair flying. Get it firmly fixed in your mental
> autopilot that you must not land until the tail wheel is on the ground.
> Then, as soon as you feel it touch, Stick Hard Back. Now, concentrate very
> hard on keeping it straight, you need to spot and correct any yaw the
> instant it happens, which it will.
> If, or should I say when?!? you land mainwheel first, you must continue to
> fly the airplane until it stops, much harder because the effect of the
> ground adds more variables
> Graham
>
>
> --
> Internal Virus Database is out-of-date.
> Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 20
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| Subject: | While on the subject of Europa characteristics |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Jeff.
Yes, firstly read the Pilots Handbook and really digest it.
Be sure to get your speed controlled and the aircraft trimmed as
recommended for full flaps and correct before you turn on BASE.
Use the control stick as if it were a one way ratchet, don't relax the
control stick pressure what so ever and at the end of the flare try to
fly about 12" above the runway with your elbow rammed tight to the
cockpit side looking ahead (not sideways)to get the attitude of the
aircraft into your head.
In the event of a small bounce snatch the stick right back.
In the event of a large bounce "open the taps" full and go round off the
top of the bounce not forgetting to retract the flaps on climb out.(You
will not correct a big bounce unless the runway is about a mile long !)
Don't try a dead stick landing until you have grasped landings with
coordinated use of engine throttle.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI /Jabiru 3300
PS. Now listen to all the long hour guys telling you how!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of N55XS
Subject: Europa-List: While on the subject of Europa characteristics
--> Europa-List message posted by: N55XS <topglock@cox.net>
I wonder if any of you Tri-gear flyers would be so kind as to comment on
any "characteristics" you've noticed on the takeoff/landing of your
aircraft. Anything in particular one should be on the lookout for?.
Details, please. Thanks in advance...
--
Jeff - A055
Getting close to FWF time...
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 21
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| Subject: | RE: While on the subject of Europa characteristics |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <hurstkr@growzone.com.au>
> Anything in particular one should be on the lookout for?.
Mainly the ground Jeff !!
but the method required I will leave to others 'cause I've only had a
couple of goes myself but I sure am looking forward to having a 'real'
go.
and to you blokes who are deliberating all the time on whether you
should go here or there or somewhere else. . . . . decisions !decisions
! . . . . I don't know if I could stand a life like that ? . . . . . .
I don't know why you don't all just 'get a life' - like me, either at
work trying to earn the $$$ to pay for my toy or in the shed trying to
build the thing . . . . nothing makes me sick !
in jest
Kingsley
Do not archive
Message 22
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <robh@hyperion-ef.us>
The manufacturer's web is:
http://www.kartcomponents.sagenet.co.uk/default.htm
My Tri-Gear kit included the Kart Components master cylinders, and the
picture of several cylinders at the manufacturer's web site (the "Brakes &
Disks" page) shows one that matches the master cylinder in my kit.
It is the seals in the master cylinders that had to be changed to match the
seals in the slave cylinders for fluid compatibility. According to the
build manual this is because the Tri-Gear uses "mineral based hydraulic
fluid" (also described in the manual as "aviation type hydraulic fluid") for
which the slave cylinders already have the appropriate seals. The kit is
supplied with replacement seals that must be installed in each master
cylinder.
I avoided the problem of deciding which fluid would be compatible by
choosing silicone brake fluid, DOT 5, which is compatible with everything
and has a few other advantages (though cost is not one of them).
Best regards,
Rob Housman
Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
Airframe complete
Irvine, CA
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Butcher
Subject: Europa-List: Brake Parts
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Butcher" <europa@triton.net>
Does anyone know where to purchase rebuild parts for the Kart Components
master cylinder for a monowheel? Ours are all gummed up.
Also, is Dot 3 or Dot 4 brake fluid OK to use? I think the messages with
brake fluid problems were all with the Tri Gear brakes.
Thanks
Jim Butcher A185
Message 23
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| Subject: | Re: Gascolator access hatch |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
Afterward I thought that might be the case. We do have a time of it keeping
two worlds separated ( three when the guys "downunder" start in). The
internet is so fast we can just about carry on a conversation with it.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds, WA 98020
425 776 5555
http://www.europaowners.org/WileE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Gascolator access hatch
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean"
> <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
>
> Oops!
> Wrong Roche. The one I was referring to is in Cornwall,UK.
> DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 24
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| Subject: | Re: RE: While on the subject of Europa characteristics |
--> Europa-List message posted by: N55XS <topglock@cox.net>
Kingsley Hurst wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <hurstkr@growzone.com.au>
>
>
>
>>Anything in particular one should be on the lookout for?.
>>
>>
>
>Mainly the ground Jeff !!
>
>but the method required I will leave to others 'cause I've only had a
>couple of goes myself but I sure am looking forward to having a 'real'
>go.
>
>and to you blokes who are deliberating all the time on whether you
>should go here or there or somewhere else. . . . . decisions !decisions
>! . . . . I don't know if I could stand a life like that ? . . . . . .
>I don't know why you don't all just 'get a life' - like me, either at
>work trying to earn the $$$ to pay for my toy or in the shed trying to
>build the thing . . . . nothing makes me sick !
>
>in jest
>
>Kingsley
>
>Do not archive
>
>
>
Kingsley,
I understand, completely, as, due to lack of parts (FWF, engine and
prop), I find myself missing the build, even though I usually do
something, everyday. Alas, business has been good, and I will be
ordering the afore mentioned parts, next week. I look forward to the
bordom of deciding where to go... :)
--
Jeff A055
Builders Log: http://www.N55XS.com
do not archive
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 25
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| Subject: | Re: While on the subject of Europa characteristics |
--> Europa-List message posted by: N55XS <topglock@cox.net>
R.C.Harrison wrote:
>--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
>
>Hi! Jeff.
>Yes, firstly read the Pilots Handbook and really digest it.
>Be sure to get your speed controlled and the aircraft trimmed as
>recommended for full flaps and correct before you turn on BASE.
>Use the control stick as if it were a one way ratchet, don't relax the
>control stick pressure what so ever and at the end of the flare try to
>fly about 12" above the runway with your elbow rammed tight to the
>cockpit side looking ahead (not sideways)to get the attitude of the
>aircraft into your head.
>In the event of a small bounce snatch the stick right back.
>In the event of a large bounce "open the taps" full and go round off the
>top of the bounce not forgetting to retract the flaps on climb out.(You
>will not correct a big bounce unless the runway is about a mile long !)
>Don't try a dead stick landing until you have grasped landings with
>coordinated use of engine throttle.
>Regards
>Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI /Jabiru 3300
>PS. Now listen to all the long hour guys telling you how!
>
>
>
Bob,
Thanks for the great information. How would you compare the Europa
landing characteristics to the light Cessnas, like the 152?
--
Jeff - A055
Builders Log: http://www.N55XS.com
--
No virus found in this outgoing message.
Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Message 26
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--> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS <jeff@rmmm.net>
I would like to hear from Tri-Gear pilots that installed the stock
master cylinder and used the dot - 5 with no problems. It sounds like
most have had to clean there's out to get them to work freely. I would
like to do this before I fill the system if it's something thats
advised by most. On the other hand if it's not necessary and can be
avoided I would like that even better. Anyone care to comment?
Jeff
A258
On Feb 10, 2005, at 6:44 PM, Rob Housman wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" <robh@hyperion-ef.us>
>
> The manufacturer's web is:
> http://www.kartcomponents.sagenet.co.uk/default.htm
>
> My Tri-Gear kit included the Kart Components master cylinders, and the
> picture of several cylinders at the manufacturer's web site (the
> "Brakes &
> Disks" page) shows one that matches the master cylinder in my kit.
>
> It is the seals in the master cylinders that had to be changed to
> match the
> seals in the slave cylinders for fluid compatibility. According to the
> build manual this is because the Tri-Gear uses "mineral based hydraulic
> fluid" (also described in the manual as "aviation type hydraulic
> fluid") for
> which the slave cylinders already have the appropriate seals. The kit
> is
> supplied with replacement seals that must be installed in each master
> cylinder.
>
> I avoided the problem of deciding which fluid would be compatible by
> choosing silicone brake fluid, DOT 5, which is compatible with
> everything
> and has a few other advantages (though cost is not one of them).
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Rob Housman
>
> Europa XS Tri-Gear A070
> Airframe complete
> Irvine, CA
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jim Butcher
> To: europalist
> Subject: Europa-List: Brake Parts
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Butcher" <europa@triton.net>
>
> Does anyone know where to purchase rebuild parts for the Kart
> Components
> master cylinder for a monowheel? Ours are all gummed up.
>
> Also, is Dot 3 or Dot 4 brake fluid OK to use? I think the messages
> with
> brake fluid problems were all with the Tri Gear brakes.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jim Butcher A185
>
>
Message 27
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| Subject: | Gascolator access hatch |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <hurstkr@growzone.com.au>
>We do have a time of it keeping two worlds separated ( three when the
guys "downunder" start in).
Funny thing Cliff, if in referring to 'downunder' you mean Australia
(you wouldn't mean NZ would you ?) it seems that the Europa flyers over
here in general, don't seem to be on the 'list'. They may not have time
to worry about the 'list' because they probably have their work cut out
trying to decide where to go just like those poor pilots in the UK !
In the case of the NZ flyers, I think they may be a bit 'sheepish' about
how far or where to travel so we are not hearing from them either ! Ya
gotta watch those Kiwis !
Nice to know you don't seem to have any trouble knowing where to go
Cliff . . . . understand the weather presents a bit of a problem though
so just come over here, we can fix that for you . . . . . no problem
mate !
Regs
Kingsley
Do not archive
Message 28
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Crimm" <steve.crimm@stephenscott.com>
Flight,
Has anyone ever used a two part expanding foam to use in place of blue foam
for special sculpting uses. I want to get a custom fit for the bottom floor
area under the seats and don't really want to have to do it with pieces of
rigid foam which I currently have in place. Pour it in place (not directly
on the bottom but on plastic on the bottom), expand around all the hoses and
filters in the seat bottom and then cut the top to fit.
Steve
A058
N15JN
Message 29
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| Subject: | Re: While on the subject of Europa characteristics |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
Jeff
I guess I qualify to comment on this question.
I started with "Wile E. Coyote" N229WC as a monowheel. I had the first 15
hours put on my Bob Jacobsen and John Hurst. John gave me 10 hours in
Lakeland in his demonstrator so I was "qualified" for my insurance to fly my
own plane. I made my first landing perfectly. and the 8th one was good too.
In hind sight, I was not getting the plane slow enough when I put it on the
runway. I bounced. At 22 hours I broke the prop and the wife suggested I
"do something" to fix the problem.
Now N22WC is a trike and a "pussycat" to land. It is just as easy to land as
a 152. (a little different due to the low wings) I should have just built
it right the first time :(
Really, I put down full flaps just before turning Base and back off on the
power, trim for 80MPH, and use the throttle to fly to the fence. Then slow
to 60 MPH and hold it off till it lands. Rather basic approach. The plane
will land at any speed and the only problem I have had is trying to put it
down too fast (hard) . It is best to just fly it on. It would be hard to
goof a landing up (compared to the mono that must nearly stall to land)
I hope that helps. These are my thought anyway !
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds, WA 98020
425 776 5555
http://www.europaowners.org/WileE
Rain forecast for a day or two, no flying :(
> --> Europa-List message posted by: N55XS <topglock@cox.net>
>
> I wonder if any of you Tri-gear flyers would be so kind as to comment on
> any "characteristics" you've noticed on the takeoff/landing of your
> aircraft. Anything in particular one should be on the lookout for?.
> Details, please. Thanks in advance...
>
> --
> Jeff - A055
> Getting close to FWF time...
>
Message 30
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| Subject: | Re: Expanding Foam |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
Steve
Sounds like a good idea BUT ! I think you will find that the expanding type
foam is not very strong (could not sit on it without it squishing down) and
the bubbles where it is cut will be too porous to lay glass over without a
lot of filler. Sorry !
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds, WA 98020
425 776 5555
http://www.europaowners.org/WileE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Crimm" <steve.crimm@stephenscott.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Expanding Foam
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Crimm"
> <steve.crimm@stephenscott.com>
>
> Flight,
>
> Has anyone ever used a two part expanding foam to use in place of blue
> foam
> for special sculpting uses. I want to get a custom fit for the bottom
> floor
> area under the seats and don't really want to have to do it with pieces of
> rigid foam which I currently have in place. Pour it in place (not
> directly
> on the bottom but on plastic on the bottom), expand around all the hoses
> and
> filters in the seat bottom and then cut the top to fit.
>
> Steve
> A058
> N15JN
>
>
>
Message 31
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Crimm" <steve.crimm@stephenscott.com>
The plan after the foam is found and sized is to lay a piece of plywood on
top.
Steve
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Cliff Shaw
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Expanding Foam
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
Steve
Sounds like a good idea BUT ! I think you will find that the expanding type
foam is not very strong (could not sit on it without it squishing down) and
the bubbles where it is cut will be too porous to lay glass over without a
lot of filler. Sorry !
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds, WA 98020
425 776 5555
http://www.europaowners.org/WileE
----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Crimm" <steve.crimm@stephenscott.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Expanding Foam
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Crimm"
> <steve.crimm@stephenscott.com>
>
> Flight,
>
> Has anyone ever used a two part expanding foam to use in place of blue
> foam
> for special sculpting uses. I want to get a custom fit for the bottom
> floor
> area under the seats and don't really want to have to do it with pieces of
> rigid foam which I currently have in place. Pour it in place (not
> directly
> on the bottom but on plastic on the bottom), expand around all the hoses
> and
> filters in the seat bottom and then cut the top to fit.
>
> Steve
> A058
> N15JN
>
>
>
Message 32
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| Subject: | Re: Expanding Foam |
--> Europa-List message posted by: David Glauser <dglauser@gmail.com>
I tried it in exactly that location.
Don't. Do. It.
Really. Trust me. Cleaning that mess up was a royal pain. I then did
the job over with proper blue foam.
dg
On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 21:24:02 -0500, Steve Crimm
<steve.crimm@stephenscott.com> wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Crimm" <steve.crimm@stephenscott.com>
>
> Flight,
>
> Has anyone ever used a two part expanding foam to use in place of blue foam
> for special sculpting uses. I want to get a custom fit for the bottom floor
> area under the seats and don't really want to have to do it with pieces of
> rigid foam which I currently have in place. Pour it in place (not directly
> on the bottom but on plastic on the bottom), expand around all the hoses and
> filters in the seat bottom and then cut the top to fit.
>
> Steve
> A058
> N15JN
>
>
>
Message 33
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|
| Subject: | Re: Expanding Foam |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Steve,
Ha ha..... I tried this.... what a mess... and I wasn't laughing at the
time. Just cut out a bit of ply and cover it over. I find the small area
underneath handy for storing tie down ropes and a few tools. You can see a
photo under June 2002 on my web site at http://europa363.versadev.com/
Paul
Message 34
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| Subject: | Re: Expanding Foam |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net>
> Has anyone ever used a two part expanding foam to use in place of
blue foam
> for special sculpting uses.
> Steve
> A058
> N15JN
If you mean the stuff from Wicks Aircraft, yes and it's fun stuff. If
exact 50/50 mix, it's only somewhat softer than blue foam. But for
what you describe, it should work. For some jobs, it doesn't work
well; others it's about the only choice.
Reg,
Fred F.
Message 35
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| Subject: | Re: test flying my own creation |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Andrew Sarangan <asarangan@yahoo.com>
I am surprised why there aren't any instructors out there offering
formal training for the Europa. I would be willing to pay for 10-20
hours if one is available. If I ever get to finish mine, I will surely
think about offering such a service. FAA specifically allows renting
experimental aircraft for purpose of transition training.
--- Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk> wrote:
> --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton
> <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
>
> At 23:56 09/02/2005 -0800, you wrote:
> >Subject: RE: Europa-List: test flying my own creation
> >
> >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bob Jacobsen"
> <jacobsenra@hotmail.com>
> >
> >Hi all, yes I am still here (lurking)
>
> You're always welcome Bob! Once family, always family
> Graham
>
>
> --
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=====
Andrew Sarangan
http://www.geocities.com/asarangan
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