---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 03/10/05: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 01:59 AM - The certified Europa? (Graham Singleton) 2. 02:07 AM - Aluminium (aluminum) type to use (Kingsley Hurst) 3. 03:40 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 03/09/05 (HelgeandGabby@aol.com) 4. 04:01 AM - Re: The certified Europa? (Tim Weert) 5. 05:36 AM - Re: The certified Europa? (JEFF ROBERTS) 6. 07:39 AM - Re: Aluminium (aluminum) type to use (Rob Housman) 7. 10:15 AM - First Flight of the 'High Top' (simon.nash1) 8. 11:09 AM - europa club subs by standing order (Rowland Carson) 9. 12:58 PM - Re: First Flight of the 'High Top' (Garry) 10. 01:17 PM - Re: First Flight of the 'High Top' (EuropaXSA276@aol.com) 11. 01:39 PM - Re: First Flight of the 'High Top' (R.C.Harrison) 12. 02:10 PM - ZK-TIM (Tim Ward) 13. 02:18 PM - Re: Aluminium (aluminum) type to use (Kingsley Hurst) 14. 06:08 PM - Oil Cooler Fittings (Jim Butcher) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 01:59:35 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Europa-List: The certified Europa? --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton The certified Europa? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tim Weert" Just a question.... Is Ivan Shaw involved in the Liberty LX2 project or did Liberty Aerospace steel the Europa design ? According the pictures at the website the Liberty LX2 is a Europa XS "hightop" with a lot of modifications and a aluminium wing and tailplane. They fitted the Teledyne Continental IOF 240-B Regards, Tim Weert Tim Ivan and Don Dykins designed it, the fuselage is steel tube with glass skin, a rolling chassis, he called it. Eventually, as is so often the case, the money people took over and Ivan moved sideways , again. They did once tell him he wasn't neede any more, thank you. A few months later they found out that they were wrong, so were forced to make him a more attractive offer; he stayed another 3 or four years. Graham ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:07:19 AM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: Europa-List: Aluminium (aluminum) type to use --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" All, I wish to construct my own vent fitting that fits on the rear of the fuel tank just above the fuel filler hole in the tank. What grade of stock aluminium (aluminum) do I ask for ? Thanks Kingsley Hurst Mono Classic 281 in Oz ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:40:22 AM PST US From: HelgeandGabby@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 03/09/05 --> Europa-List message posted by: HelgeandGabby@aol.com Hi there, I have got the frame that bonds to the fuselarge and to which the engine and the landing gear is attached. ( never used) Let me know if that is of interest to you. Regards Helge. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:01:41 AM PST US From: "Tim Weert" Subject: Re: Europa-List: The certified Europa? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tim Weert" Hi Graham, Thanks for your info. It surprised me that the names Ivan Shaw and Don Dykins are difficult to find at their website during a quick investigation last night. (most people watch websites only quick) I expected a bit more "respect" to the two fathers of this beautiful design. (The 23rd october 2003 Ivan gave me a impressive demonstration of G-GBXS at Stadtlhn (Germany). It was clear to me that Ivan is "one" with his design. For me it's still difficult to understand that he's not managing and improving his design in a commercial way. But I hope I am wrong. ) Regards, Tim. Heerhugowaard, The Netherlands. 460 PH-JAI XS TG 914 AP332 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 05:36:17 AM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: The certified Europa? --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS Rick, Most of us on this forum have followed the developement of the Liberty and it's designers for years. It's truly a great certified airplane, when you compair it to anything thats already built. You cannot compare it to the Europa. The Europa is faster, more agile, has two sticks on there own pivit point and not on one centeral point. It lands shorter takes off shorter, climbs faster, and it comes in a package that allows it's builder to customize it to his own personal liking. You can build it for about half the costs of the Liberty? It's not quite as big as the Liberty but then it flies a lot cheeper. 4.5 Gallons an hour appeals to me a lot and it uses automotive fuel which is a lot cheeper than 100 LL. If your only goal is to get to the flying ASAP then the Liberty would be a great choice. But to abandon a project to spend more for less still doesn't make sense to me. Oh did I mention I can do my own repairs and inspections? Jeff A258 Running out of reasons to not send her to the paint shop. On Mar 9, 2005, at 9:45 PM, Rick Audy wrote: > (It's only 140K I bet a lot of us will drop our kits and jump to this) > Rick > ----- Original Message ----- > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:39:05 AM PST US From: "Rob Housman" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Aluminium (aluminum) type to use --> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" Among the wrought alloys 6061-T6511 is your best choice, for cost, ease of machining, and availability, but for this application just about anything would be acceptable. The -T6511 temper is most common but any variation would be OK, such as plain old -T6. If you are digging through scrap piles it's best to stay away from castings (such as 356 and other three digit alloys) which tend to be somewhat porous, though not enough so that you'd have to worry about leaks. Best regards, Rob Housman Europa XS Tri-Gear A070 Airframe complete Irvine, CA -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Kingsley Hurst Subject: Europa-List: Aluminium (aluminum) type to use --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" All, I wish to construct my own vent fitting that fits on the rear of the fuel tank just above the fuel filler hole in the tank. What grade of stock aluminium (aluminum) do I ask for ? Thanks Kingsley Hurst Mono Classic 281 in Oz ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:15:56 AM PST US From: "simon.nash1" Subject: Europa-List: First Flight of the 'High Top' --> Europa-List message posted by: "simon.nash1" On Monday 7th March ,16:10 at Wombleton airfield G-OSJN (kit 495) took to the skies for the first time in the very capable hands of Andy Draper. The flight lasted 15 minutes with no significant problems reported. The aircraft is a mono wheel, 914, airmaster with the hi top modification, she weighed in at 860lb. The hi top gives around 2-3" extra headroom which allows people like myself 6'5" to enjoy the Europa comfortably. A further 3 flights took place on Wednesday, following some prop tweaks and better weather. Initial observations appears that the hi top does not detract any performance compared to a standard mono with the same engine/prop configuration. Further evaluations will be made during the testing. Once shaken down the aircraft will be based at North Weald where I hope to be flying it as much as possible. I would like to thank the Europa team Andy, John, Roger and Jim, and not forgetting Nevil, for without their skill and support this would not be possible. Regards Simon ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:09:19 AM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: Europa-List: europa club subs by standing order --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson My thanks to the significant number of UK Europa Club members who have set up Standing Orders for payment of their Club subscriptions. This will save me much time that I need for attention to my own build project. However, several members had SOs already set up before we changed our bank account, and although I wrote to them all last year, I have not had confirmation from some that their SO has been changed to point at the new Club account. (After writing I discovered that some banks, unlike my own, do not allow the setting up of SOs which start more than 3 months in the future; thus a number of peole were unable to act upon my letter when it was received. I apologise for my ignorance of the shortcomings of other banks!) Anyway, I'd be grateful if the following people could let me know the status of their Standing Order - is is still pointing at the old Lloyds TSB account (sort code 30-94-99) or if they have replaced it with a new one pointing at the NatWest account (sort code 60-05-16). I'm deliberately not quoting the account number in this message for various reasons! William Bell & Susan Brooks David Buckley Paul Bunting & Laurie Slater Nigel & Cathy Charles Ian Cook & Bennett Price Geoffrey Craggs Klaas de Geus & C de Geus-Dekker Herbert & Carmen Habersatter Trevor & Christine Hartwell Martin & Diane E Mavers Alasdair Milne Graham Pocock John Pratt & Paul Jones Mike & Lisa Purnell Adam Rawicz-Szczerbo Colin Smallwood & Andrew Calvert Paul Sweeting & Sarah Jones Peter & Emma Thomas Thomas Tresham If any of you have lost the original SO form, let me know & I will send a replacement as PDF. You can use that as a prompt for what to fill in using online banking, or print it out, complete it and take it to your bank branch. NB DON'T send it back to me - although I would appreciate a confirmation that it has been lodged with your bank. Apologies to everyone else for this boring admin message! regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary - email for info! | Europa 435 G-ROWI (750 hours building) PFA #16532 | e-mail website ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:58:22 PM PST US From: "Garry" Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flight of the 'High Top' --> Europa-List message posted by: "Garry" What's a "high top"? Garry Stout ----- Original Message ----- From: "simon.nash1" Subject: Europa-List: First Flight of the 'High Top' > --> Europa-List message posted by: "simon.nash1" > > > > On Monday 7th March ,16:10 at Wombleton airfield G-OSJN > (kit 495) took to the skies for the first time in the very > capable hands of Andy Draper. The flight lasted 15 minutes > with no significant problems reported. > > The aircraft is a mono wheel, 914, airmaster with the hi top > modification, she weighed in at 860lb. The hi top gives > around 2-3" extra headroom which allows people like myself > 6'5" to enjoy the Europa comfortably. > > A further 3 flights took place on Wednesday, following some > prop tweaks and better weather. Initial observations appears > that the hi top does not detract any performance compared to > a standard mono with the same engine/prop configuration. > Further evaluations will be made during the testing. > > Once shaken down the aircraft will be based at North Weald > where I hope to be flying it as much as possible. > > I would like to thank the Europa team Andy, John, Roger and > Jim, and not forgetting Nevil, for without their skill and > support this would not be possible. > > Regards > > Simon > > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:17:02 PM PST US From: EuropaXSA276@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: First Flight of the 'High Top' --> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaXSA276@aol.com Hey Gary: More affectionately know as Mod 62 High Top Modification. Adds 2" more head room by the addition of a strip along the fuselage molding and firewall extension. I think that Dean Sietz out in your neck of the woods has it installed on his project. Brian Skelly Texas Europa # A276 TriGear See My build photos at: http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:39:14 PM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: First Flight of the 'High Top' --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Congratulations ! Simon. Better do something about ODPM Prescott else you'll need a new base ! Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa 337 MKI/Jabiru 3300 Do not archive. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of simon.nash1 Subject: Europa-List: First Flight of the 'High Top' --> Europa-List message posted by: "simon.nash1" On Monday 7th March ,16:10 at Wombleton airfield G-OSJN (kit 495) took to the skies for the first time in the very capable hands of Andy Draper. The flight lasted 15 minutes with no significant problems reported. The aircraft is a mono wheel, 914, airmaster with the hi top modification, she weighed in at 860lb. The hi top gives around 2-3" extra headroom which allows people like myself 6'5" to enjoy the Europa comfortably. A further 3 flights took place on Wednesday, following some prop tweaks and better weather. Initial observations appears that the hi top does not detract any performance compared to a standard mono with the same engine/prop configuration. Further evaluations will be made during the testing. Once shaken down the aircraft will be based at North Weald where I hope to be flying it as much as possible. I would like to thank the Europa team Andy, John, Roger and Jim, and not forgetting Nevil, for without their skill and support this would not be possible. Regards Simon ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 02:10:30 PM PST US From: "Tim Ward" Subject: Europa-List: ZK-TIM --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tim Ward" Fellow Europa eans, For those interested I have now finished the flight testing programme for my Europa 'Classic' Monowheel. Fitted with a Rotax 912S and Airmaster propeller here are the final results.As compared with the advertised performance data they were as good and in some cases better. Tests were done with different C of Gs and Weights. Airspeed Calibration; Max. Position Error was 0.4% for the Pitot/Static positioned out on the wing.(Mod?) Alternate source within the cabin was satisfactory. Stall Testing with Stall Strips attached; Clean..................buffet 46kts stall 41kts Flaps/Gear..........buffet 42kts stall 37kts Glide Performance; Flaps/Gear Up - Idle Power.......... Best lift/drag ratio = 65kts Flaps/Gear Down - Idle Power.......... Best lift/drag ratio = 53kts Climb Test Performance; (Due to 'classic cowls' and 912S Rotax extra heat,I repositioned the Oil Cooler to under the Propeller spinner without any change to the design lines of the cowling) Best climb/cruise speed to 10000ft was 85kts. 65kts took me to 4500ft before oil temp max. 70kts took me to 6500ft before oil temp max. 75kts took me to 7500ft before oil temp max. 85kts took me to 10000ft and beyond as the oil temp began to cool then. (It was a ISA + 5 day) Best Angle of Climb = 60kts (as advertised) Best Rate of Climb = 75kts (as advertised) All control forces in the three axis of rotation were well within limits and the aircraft is inherently stable. Flutter Tests resulted in no vibrations or flutter. ( even at Vne +10% 186kts!!) It was a delight to test fly. Confidence in the aircraft grew every day after a hiccup at the beginning (U/C retract after landing-another story) I am very pleased with the results. Very docile in the stall, responsive controls and inherently stable. Cheers, Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street, Fendalton, Christchurch, 8005 New Zealand. Ph +64 3 3515166 Mobile 021 0640221 ward.t@xtra.co.nz ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 02:18:01 PM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Aluminium (aluminum) type to use --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" Thanks Rob, I was hoping you would come to the rescue ! Cheers, Kingsley Do not archive --> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" Among the wrought alloys 6061-T6511 is your best choice, for cost, ease of machining, and availability, but for this application just about anything would be acceptable. The -T6511 temper is most common but any variation would be OK, such as plain old -T6. If you are digging through scrap piles it's best to stay away from castings (such as 356 and other three digit alloys) which tend to be somewhat porous, though not enough so that you'd have to worry about leaks. Best regards, Rob Housman ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 06:08:31 PM PST US From: "Jim Butcher" Subject: Europa-List: Oil Cooler Fittings --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Butcher" Installing the oil cooler for 914 with the cooler dropped down. The FWF kit supplied one straight fitting and one 90 deg elbow fitting. However the diagram Fig 9 page 4-8 says to use a second straight fitting when the cooler is dropped. Has anyone found a source of oil cooler fittings? It appears to be P/N HEF3-8 and is 1/2 BSP thread. Thanks Jim Butcher A185 N241BW