Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 07:36 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 03/09/05 (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com)
2. 08:01 AM - Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 03/09/05 (Simon Smith)
3. 10:30 AM - Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 03/09/05 (Fergus Kyle)
4. 01:30 PM - Re: Re: Europa-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 03/09/05 (simon miles)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 03/09/05 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
In a message dated 3/10/2005 6:18:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
europa-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
> Alan,
> Why do you consider this attitude to be nonsense? You go flying - it costs.
> I am always amazed that any pilot thinks that they deserve a free landing
> when things go pear-shaped. Airports such as the three mentioned in your
> account are not charitable organisations so why should you get a free
> landing even if the circumstances are beyond your control - I assume the
> weather you encountered wasn't forecast? Presumably you anticipated paying a
>
> landing fee on arrival at Shoreham, so what caused you so much grief about
> paying one at Southampton?
> Yours in amazement,
> Simon Miles
Simon,
You should deal with some of the sailplane pilots I have to deal with in my
glider operation. They show up in a $50,000 Lexis pulling a $130,000 sailplane
in a $15,000 custom trailer wearing a $12,000 Rolex watch, talk about the
great soaring vacation they just had in New Zealand, then bitch about a $35 tow
or
$150 a year to be a member of our club. (a not for profit club) I guess they
figure the tow plane repairs itself, avgas is free, and the runway never needs
mowing or fertilizer. Go figure.
I am equally amazed.
Regards,
John Lawton
Dunlap, TN
A-245 (Doing flap extensions today)
DO NOT ARCHIVE
Message 2
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 03/09/05 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Simon Smith" <jodel@nildram.co.uk>
Some people might not realise that there has been a long standing campaign
on behalf of AOPA UK by Charles Strasser to get all airfields in the UK to
accept CAA CAP 667 9.2(c) recommendation and not to charge GA aircrafts
making emergency or precautionary landings.
The full CAA CAP 667 9.2(c) recommendation states:- "There were a number of
fatal accidents where a timely diversion or precautionary landing could have
avoided an accident. In the UK there is a 'culture' of pressing on and
hoping for the best rather accepting the inconvenience and cost of a
diversion. This 'culture' needs to be changed, firstly by educating pilots
and secondly by persuading Aerodrome owners that there should be no charge
for emergency landings or diversions. It is recommended that all Aerodrome
owners be persuaded to adopt a policy that there should be no charges for
emergency landings or diversions by general aviation aircraft."
190 airfields ARE in the scheme. 17 are not (and LHR LGW & LCY were not
asked for obvious reasons).
The full list of airfields is at
http://www.aopa.co.uk/newsfromaopa/aopa189.pdf
Cheers
Simon
G-BZTN
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 03/09/05
--> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
In a message dated 3/10/2005 6:18:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
europa-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
> Alan,
> Why do you consider this attitude to be nonsense? You go flying - it
> costs. I am always amazed that any pilot thinks that they deserve a
> free landing when things go pear-shaped. Airports such as the three
> mentioned in your account are not charitable organisations so why
> should you get a free landing even if the circumstances are beyond
> your control - I assume the weather you encountered wasn't forecast?
> Presumably you anticipated paying a
>
> landing fee on arrival at Shoreham, so what caused you so much grief
> about
> paying one at Southampton?
> Yours in amazement,
> Simon Miles
Message 3
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 03/09/05 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" <VE3LVO@rac.ca>
----- Original Message -----
From: <TELEDYNMCS@aol.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 03/09/05
| --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com
|
| In a message dated 3/10/2005 6:18:04 AM Eastern Standard Time,
| europa-list-digest@matronics.com writes:
|
| > Alan,
| > Why do you consider this attitude to be nonsense? You go flying - it
costs.
| > I am always amazed that any pilot thinks that they deserve a free
landing
| > when things go pear-shaped. Airports such as the three mentioned in your
| > account are not charitable organisations so why should you get a free
| > landing even if the circumstances are beyond your control - I assume the
| > weather you encountered wasn't forecast? Presumably you anticipated
paying a
| >
| > landing fee on arrival at Shoreham, so what caused you so much grief
about
| > paying one at Southampton?
| > Yours in amazement,
| > Simon Miles
|
| Simon, |
| You should deal with some of the sailplane pilots I have to deal with in
my
| glider operation. They show up in a $50,000 Lexis pulling a $130,000
sailplane
| in a $15,000 custom trailer wearing a $12,000 Rolex watch, talk about the
| great soaring vacation they just had in New Zealand, then bitch about a
$35 tow or
| $150 a year to be a member of our club. (a not for profit club) I guess
they
| figure the tow plane repairs itself, avgas is free, and the runway never
needs
| mowing or fertilizer. Go figure.
| I am equally amazed. Regards, JOhn Lawton
| Dunlap, TN
| A-245 (Doing flap extensions today)
Cheers,
I can sympathise in each of your situations (or should I say,
conditions) but that the form here is different. The bulk of the airfields
of any import in Canada were ones I bought. Canada's contributions to WW
II included the Commonwealth Air Training Scheme, and much of it came from
war funds to which I contributed at least 25 cents a week (the Friday
morning savings stamp). I then contributed to the nation's debt financing in
years to follow until all that was left were the fields. There may have been
other contributors.
Then the cowards in Ottawa, having piddled away the century's
promise mostly upon themselves, dumped all their responsibilities on the
provinces (and increased taxes). These latter then dumped on the towns and
townships (....who in turn...). No taxes were reduced, no tax levy left
undug. And again all that's left are the fields. So the fields (now
bailliewick of MBA's and other failures) are charging landing fees.
Won't they sweat when they find I've taken off, Jenny has driven
the trailer to a farmer's field - and I won't be landing soon at MY other
field...................
The stamp books are around here somewhere.
Ferg
Do NOT ARCHIVE
Message 4
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 03/09/05 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "simon miles" <simon.miles@skynet.be>
Simon,
I am aware of this campaign but I still can't get my head around the idea
that anyone who can afford to fly aeroplanes would *ever* let the cost of a
landing (and it's associated costs) let them "press-on".
Don't you agree that the availability of 'free-landings' is, perhaps, in
itself an invitation to "press-on". I'm assuming VFR flight here. Imagine,
you're flying home and due to circumstances beyond your control, a diversion
is inevitable. Beneath you is a perfectly servicable airfield in acceptable
weather but in a slightly remote location. To get home from there would
involve an expensive and long taxi ride or a stay in a nearby bed &
breakfast and in the hope you could continue the next day. If you can
"press-on" into the murk (only until it becomes unacceptable, of course) to
the 'free' airport which is nearer home and well served with buses, trains
(or where your other half could conveniently drive to), which would you
choose?
Alternatively, look at this way - you are driving home after the Christmas
holiday but exceptional snow conditions (i.e. loads of it!) means you can't
continue. When you present yourself at the nearest hotel (in preference to
freezing to death in your car) do you claim a free room because it's not
your fault you ended up there?
Simon Miles.
Europa Tri-gear #508,
Nearly finished and moved today to an airport (EBGR) at last...
----- Original Message -----
From: "Simon Smith" <jodel@nildram.co.uk>
Europa-List Digest: 12 Msgs - 03/09/05
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Simon Smith" <jodel@nildram.co.uk>
>
> Some people might not realise that there has been a long standing campaign
> on behalf of AOPA UK by Charles Strasser to get all airfields in the UK to
> accept CAA CAP 667 9.2(c) recommendation and not to charge GA aircrafts
> making emergency or precautionary landings.
>
> The full CAA CAP 667 9.2(c) recommendation states:- "There were a number
> of
> fatal accidents where a timely diversion or precautionary landing could
> have
> avoided an accident. In the UK there is a 'culture' of pressing on and
> hoping for the best rather accepting the inconvenience and cost of a
> diversion. This 'culture' needs to be changed, firstly by educating pilots
> and secondly by persuading Aerodrome owners that there should be no charge
> for emergency landings or diversions. It is recommended that all Aerodrome
> owners be persuaded to adopt a policy that there should be no charges for
> emergency landings or diversions by general aviation aircraft."
>
>
> 190 airfields ARE in the scheme. 17 are not (and LHR LGW & LCY were not
> asked for obvious reasons).
>
> The full list of airfields is at
> http://www.aopa.co.uk/newsfromaopa/aopa189.pdf
>
> Cheers
>
> Simon
> G-BZTN
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