---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 03/28/05: 10 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:39 AM - Before Installing Cockpit Module (Graham Singleton) 2. 05:51 AM - Re: Sun' n Fun (Rob Huntington) 3. 05:52 AM - Re: Sun' n Fun (Rob Huntington) 4. 06:07 AM - Re: Sun' n Fun (Al Stills) 5. 06:52 AM - Re: Fuel Line (Fred Fillinger) 6. 07:28 AM - Re: Fuel Line (EuropaXSA276@aol.com) 7. 08:23 AM - Re: Information from our non-UK friends needed to (William Daniell) 8. 09:09 AM - Re: Before Installing Cockpit Module (William Daniell) 9. 12:44 PM - Re: Sun' n Fun (Steve Hagar) 10. 03:12 PM - Re: Before Installing Cockpit Module (Tony Renshaw) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:39:54 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Europa-List: Before Installing Cockpit Module --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Simenauer" I am getting close to installing my cockpit module and I was wondering if there are recommended things to do beyond what the manual describes prior to installation. Thanks, Dave Simenauer Dave design and fit the fuel system, best with metal pipes Graham -- ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 05:51:12 AM PST US From: Rob Huntington Subject: Re: Europa-List: Sun' n Fun --> Europa-List message posted by: Rob Huntington We will be at Sun 'n Fun, albeit without any Europa's in tow--and would like to meet with any interested Europaphiles. Also, while you are in Phoenix, you are more than welcome to visit our Builders' Assistance facility, we currently are working on some motorglider wings, and have a completed mono-wheel here for sale. Rob Huntington Phoenix Composites --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 05:52:45 AM PST US From: Rob Huntington Subject: RE: Europa-List: Sun' n Fun --> Europa-List message posted by: Rob Huntington Further to my last message, my email address is rob@phoenixcomposites.com and our phone number is 480-924-9750. Thanks for the recommendation Jim. Rob Huntington Phoenix Composites Jim Puglise wrote: --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Puglise" Rmi- If you are going to Phoenix, you need to hook up with the people at Phoenix Composites. They were doing something similar to Flite Crafters in the Phoenix area. I don't know how many Europas they have done, but I am sure they have a handle on who is doing what in that part of the country. Jim, A283, Punta Gorda, FL -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rmi Guerner Subject: Europa-List: Sun' n Fun --> Europa-List message posted by: "Rmi Guerner" Any Europa going to Sunn Fun ? I will be there on April 12 and 13 and will be happy to meet with other Europa owners. I will spend the following week-end (April 16-17 ) in Phoenix, AZ. I would appreciate to talk Europa with those of you who are flying/building in the Phoenix area. Please let me know if we can arrange a meeting . Remi Guerner F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 300 hours, upgraded from a 914 to a 912S. --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:50 AM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Sun' n Fun From: "Al Stills" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Al Stills" Remi, I will not be at Sun N Fun but am currently building in Phoenix. Would be more than happy to meet up with you. Contact me off list is interested @ astills@cox.net Al Stills N625AZ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 06:52:40 AM PST US From: "Fred Fillinger" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Line --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" > --> Europa-List message posted by: Mike Baker > ... > What material and temper wall thickness are you using. > I really don't want to have to change the fuel lines > every 5 years. > it was said the crash requirements drove the rubber > tube. > That would require an all-knowing assumption as to the most common destruction mode of the structure in the event of a crash. Then test it, both metal and rubber lines, in crashes. :-) Our gov't actually does that for free, where auto mfrs supply vehicles to crash, and "Detroit" at times gets it wrong. Common practice if in doubt is a short flexible hose at the tank, thence aluminum. Seems not much space at the tank outlet to provide for "crashability" by design of the bend in a pipe and attention to attach points. 2024 aluminum is common with fuel lines. Reg, Fred F. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:28:23 AM PST US From: EuropaXSA276@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fuel Line --> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaXSA276@aol.com I used Fuel injection hose for my system with plastic spiral wrap to ward off abrasion. I was told by many that if my decision was to use rubber that I should not use the hose supplied by the kit manufacturer. In addition Fuel Injection hose was recommended in it's place. I grieved considerably about this very subject. In the end I went the easiest way out. And yes, I expect to replace these hoses some time in the distant future. Good performance under a crash is most important. However, you will find on this list some complaints about fuel smell in the cockpit. Some believe the odor it is due to the rubber connection at the filler pipe. < There is a nice aluminum connection modification for that issue which I will install.> Other think the smell is from the original rubber hose supplied with the kit. If you decide to use rubber, then buy fuel injection hose for the job. If you are dead set NOT to use rubber, check out Bob Borgers installation of the fuel lines on the WWW.Europaowners.org site. A nice set up of flexible nylon lines. As a side note: I did not care for the fuel valve supplied in the kit. I installed an Andair fuel selection vale in it's place. It is a very nice piece and IMHO much much better made than the O.E. part. Brian Skelly Texas Europa # A276 TriGear See My build photos at: http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:07 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" assist us with political lobbying in the UK Subject: RE: Europa-List: Information from our non-UK friends needed to assist us with political lobbying in the UK FILETIME=[DE5C3FB0:01C533B2] --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" From Colombia as in South America not British Columbia A) Typical cost to get licence USD15k including instruction and ac hire B) Annual cost to retain licence USD1k 2 Annual cost to own an aircraft comprising (for typical 4 seat non complex CAA aircraft) USD5k A) Typical maintenance USD500 B) Insurance USD300yr(liability only - hull to expensive) C) Hangarage (lets assume it is hangared at a "low end" licensed aerodrome)USD150 mo 3) Operating costs A) Cost of fuel per litre USD4 per USGal B) Typical landing charges - licensed airfield NIL C) Typical Parking charge (one night) NIL D) average operating cost for 40 hours per year to include (A, B & C above) err not been through this E) for IFR community, typical Nav and IFR charges for 500 mile journey NIL 4) Brief notes on anything related to above which is country specific. Well obviously we have a serious control issue here due to the narcotics problem but apart from that the use of the aviation system is basically without cost for sport ac. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Davey Subject: Europa-List: Information from our non-UK friends needed to assist us with political lobbying in the UK --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Hi, Europaphiles, The PFA (the UK equivalent of the EAA) are engaged in a considerable amount of political lobbying at present, and our man leading this (Roger Hopkinson) needs some information from our overseas friends in a hurry. Can you help? We need to make a comparison of the cost of flying for an "average GA individual" and importantly how this compares with other countries. To do his we want to take a lower end CofA aircraft, say a PA28, Robin DR400 or Cessna 172 and typically look at the operating costs as well as the cost of getting and retaining the PPL itself. Please note that we=92re not comparing Experimental with Permit, for example, as the regulations for those aircraft vary much more from country to country than the Certificate of Airworthiness ships. It would be helpful if someone could volunteer to put the typical cost for their country together for the following:- 1 Cost of getting and retaining a basic PPL comprising: A) Typical cost to get licence B) Annual cost to retain licence 2 Annual cost to own an aircraft comprising (for typical 4 seat non complex CAA aircraft) A) Typical maintenance B) Insurance C) Hangarage (lets assume it is hangared at a "low end" licensed aerodrome) 3) Operating costs A) Cost of fuel per litre B) Typical landing charges - licensed airfield C) Typical Parking charge (one night) D) average operating cost for 40 hours per year to include (A, B & C above) E) for IFR community, typical Nav and IFR charges for 500 mile journey 4) Brief notes on anything related to above which is country specific. I know we could argue the definitions for ever, what we need is typical mid-range figures. If you can help, please email Roger on roger@hopkinson.org.uk - he needs to put together an outline package of information early next week! Thanks and regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member =93If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation.=94 Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1320 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:09:55 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Before Installing Cockpit Module FILETIME=[58A4D150:01C533B9] --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" Dave, I screwed up and the result was a large number of bubbles which then had to be filled and then subsequently the bonding had to be reinforced with tapes all the way round. 1. It might seem like a pretty obvious thing to do but first make sure that the cradle you constructed is the one recommended in the manual. This was my big error - I built formers based on the cockpit module and these did not allow for the boat shape. 2. pre-fit. Doing it again I think I would have used some larger bolts and washers at the bottom corner of the firewall (where your front LG frame/engine mount will go through the fw). Probably 1/4in wd do the trick. Draw the cockpit module up to the firewall as stated in the manual and then make sure everything else in the right place. I used a digital level to ensure that the spar bushes and the two upper surface of the two foot wells were level. 3. Make sure that you have the required number of people (at least 2) 4. Prepare your Redux in the right quantities - I do not think I used enough - but the general consensus seems to be about one tin. (any comments?) 5. Spread liberally on both surfaces. From this point on there are some very good comments from others on the subject. Good luck Will -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David Simenauer Subject: Europa-List: Before Installing Cockpit Module --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Simenauer" I am getting close to installing my cockpit module and I was wondering if there are recommended things to do beyond what the manual describes prior to installation. Thanks, Dave Simenauer A101 Trigear ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:44:35 PM PST US From: "Steve Hagar" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Sun' n Fun --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Hagar" Remi: I am building a monowheel just outside of Phoenix and down the road from Phoenix Composites. I am in the home stretch, building the seats now. I'm sorry to say I'll be hiking a canyon in Utah on the 16 th and 17 th of April. Though I am scheduled to be back at the house on the evening of the 18th if you will still be around. If the hike wasn't planned I would probably be down at Sun and Fun also. Steve Hagar A143 Mesa, AZ N40SH Steve Hagar hagargs@earthlink.net > [Original Message] > From: Rmi Guerner > To: > Date: 3/27/2005 11:50:25 AM > Subject: Europa-List: Sun' n Fun > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Rmi Guerner" > > > Any Europa going to Sunn Fun ? I will be there on April 12 and 13 and will be happy to meet with other Europa owners. I will spend the following week-end (April 16-17 ) in Phoenix, AZ. I would appreciate to talk Europa with those of you who are flying/building in the Phoenix area. Please let me know if we can arrange a meeting . > Remi Guerner > F-PGKL, XS S/N395 monowheel, 300 hours, upgraded from a 914 to a 912S. > > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:12:23 PM PST US From: Tony Renshaw Subject: Re: Europa-List: Before Installing Cockpit Module --> Europa-List message posted by: Tony Renshaw Dave, Look at my photos on Steve Dunsmuirs site. Also, whatever you do, I recommend hardly any flox in your mix. Anything on the bottom of the boat will not need much and you have big flange areas you need to bed down in the stuff. I did it with one other person, not enough. You need at least 2 helpers I reckon, maybe 3 if you can. Be prepared to spatula it in under the flanges, and don't listen to anyone who talks about the amount of redux they use. Perfectionists who seem to "get it right first time every time". If you are a mere mortal, ignore these people, use "plenty of redux", and lose a kg, or go to the toilet before flying :-) I can offer up a lot more but my photos are pretty thorough in this area I think. Reg Tony Renshaw Sydney Australia At 12:19 AM 3/28/2005, you wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "David Simenauer" > >I am getting close to installing my cockpit module and I was wondering if >there are recommended things to do beyond what the manual describes prior >to installation. > >Thanks, >Dave Simenauer >A101 Trigear > >