---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 04/06/05: 11 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:06 AM - RE : WOODCOMP Kremen Propeller SR2000 (mau11) 2. 04:08 AM - Re: Flap drive tube clearance to fuselage floor (JR (Bob) Gowing) 3. 07:54 AM - Re: Did you lock the door today ? (R.C.Harrison) 4. 08:20 AM - Re: Did you lock the door today ? (JEFF ROBERTS) 5. 08:33 AM - Re: Did you lock the door today ? (Houlihan,Tim) 6. 09:11 AM - Re: Flap drive tube clearance to fuselage floor (Jeremy Davey) 7. 10:41 AM - Re: Flap drive tube clearance to fuselage floor (N55XS) 8. 12:22 PM - Re: RE : WOODCOMP Kremen Propeller SR2000 (NEEL Jean Philippe) 9. 01:40 PM - Size of Airmaster Spinner on 914? (Ronald J. Parigoris) 10. 02:08 PM - Re: Size of Airmaster Spinner on 914? (Tony Krzyzewski) 11. 02:20 PM - Re: Did you lock the door today ? (Garry) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:06:06 AM PST US From: "mau11" Subject: RE : Europa-List: WOODCOMP Kremen Propeller SR2000 --> Europa-List message posted by: "mau11" Hello Tim, Is it possible to send to me a PFA document concerning your propeller? I have some problems with French administration... Thanks --|-- --------(*)-------- Michel AUVRAY -----Message d'origine----- De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Houlihan,Tim Envoy : mardi 29 mars 2005 23:34 : europa-list@matronics.com Objet : RE: Europa-List: WOODCOMP Kremen Propeller SR2000 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Houlihan,Tim" --> I have recently taken delivery of an SR2000 prop for my Europa Classic, but no flight details yet. Woodcomp have developed a spinner to suit the Rotax powered classic aircraft and I must say it looks great. At least one other classic owner has ordered a Woodcomp so we can expect some news soon. regards Tim Houlihan No 10 G-BZTH -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of mau11 Subject: Europa-List: WOODCOMP Kremen Propeller SR2000 --> Europa-List message posted by: "mau11" I heard a Europa builders buy this propeller in UK. Do you have flight news? Do you have a PFA documents to install this propeller with a 912 engine on a Europa monowheel? Thank you --|-- --------(*)-------- Michel AUVRAY N=B0145 ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:08:53 AM PST US From: "JR (Bob) Gowing" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flap drive tube clearance to fuselage floor --> Europa-List message posted by: "JR (Bob) Gowing" Jeremy Where the flap cross tube is depends upon where the main wing pins were drilled in your cockpit module. Mine were high - I had to make bulge in the top of my extended baggage bay console to make room for the flap drive rod-end! And I could only with difficulty sight accross under the fuse to set the bearings. J R (Bob) Gowing, UK Kit 327 in Oz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: Europa-List: Flap drive tube clearance to fuselage floor > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > > Guys, > > A quick one for those who have been there, done that=85 > > Can anyone give me the approximate clearance between the lowest point in the > vee of the flap drive cross tube FL15 and the fuselage floor in both the > flaps-retracted and flaps-fully-down positions? ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:54:40 AM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Did you lock the door today ? --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Sven. That all sounds somewhat of an important item of failure! Was there any likelihood of the hinges being maligned at all and in a position of stress when the door was finally closed down? Have you any feed back as to the situation with the other door hinges? Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sven den Boer Subject: Re: Europa-List: Did you lock the door today ? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Sven den Boer" Jeff, The hinges sheared right in the middle. Cheers Sven ----- Original Message ----- From: "JEFF ROBERTS" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Did you lock the door today ? > --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS > > Just curious Sven, > When the door departed, where did the separation take place. Was it > right at the hinge or did the bolts pull out of the holes. I have been > working on painting my doors and have been considering a fix for this > worry that a cozy builder used. He placed an inside secondary latch. > I'm not sure if this is legal because it cant open from the outside, > but it would solve any worries. > Jeff > A258 > On Apr 5, 2005, at 11:57 AM, Sven den Boer wrote: > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Sven den Boer" > > > > > > Saturday april 2nd, a nice day for a ride with beautiful weather. > > After take off, turning out of the circuit and towards the lake, > > having a > > passenger onboard, a ride over water is always a bit more smooth. > > After 15 minutes of flight a Whoosh sound was noted, I did not take > > long to > > realize that the pilot door had disappeared and had actually departed > > the > > aircraft. Was I glad being over water. > > The aircraft was undammaged and flying it was not different, except > > for a > > lot of noise due to the wind. > > After an uneventfull landing and a couple of days of thinking and > > investigating this mishap, it is most likely that the door did lock at > > the > > forward position, but the aft locking pin was outside the fuselage. > > Being a quite new Europa flyer I have been asking around and this > > seems to > > be a frequent observation. > > Now working on a solution, probabely a set of microswitches and a small > > light will do the trick, since it is almost impossible to verify by > > the eye. > > > > A thanks to Andy of Europa, who responded quickly and is trying to get > > the > > parts over even this week !! > > > > Cheers > > > > Sven den Boer > > A168 (Cabrio) > > > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 08:20:09 AM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Did you lock the door today ? --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS Actually Bob, I was told the reason the kit comes with the aluminum hinges was that they will sheer off should the canopy come open in flight. If I was to bail out for any reason I would want them to sheer off in flight. Thats why I ask where they failed. Sounds like they failed correctly. Jeff A258 On Apr 6, 2005, at 9:53 AM, R.C.Harrison wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" > > > Hi! Sven. > That all sounds somewhat of an important item of failure! Was there any > likelihood of the hinges being maligned at all and in a position of > stress when the door was finally closed down? > Have you any feed back as to the situation with the other door hinges? > Regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sven den > Boer > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Did you lock the door today ? > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Sven den Boer" > > > Jeff, > > The hinges sheared right in the middle. > > Cheers > > Sven > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "JEFF ROBERTS" > To: > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Did you lock the door today ? > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS >> >> Just curious Sven, >> When the door departed, where did the separation take place. Was it >> right at the hinge or did the bolts pull out of the holes. I have been > >> working on painting my doors and have been considering a fix for this >> worry that a cozy builder used. He placed an inside secondary latch. >> I'm not sure if this is legal because it cant open from the outside, >> but it would solve any worries. >> Jeff >> A258 >> On Apr 5, 2005, at 11:57 AM, Sven den Boer wrote: >> >>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Sven den Boer" >>> >>> >>> Saturday april 2nd, a nice day for a ride with beautiful weather. >>> After take off, turning out of the circuit and towards the lake, >>> having a >>> passenger onboard, a ride over water is always a bit more smooth. >>> After 15 minutes of flight a Whoosh sound was noted, I did not take >>> long to >>> realize that the pilot door had disappeared and had actually > departed >>> the >>> aircraft. Was I glad being over water. >>> The aircraft was undammaged and flying it was not different, except >>> for a >>> lot of noise due to the wind. >>> After an uneventfull landing and a couple of days of thinking and >>> investigating this mishap, it is most likely that the door did lock > at >>> the >>> forward position, but the aft locking pin was outside the fuselage. >>> Being a quite new Europa flyer I have been asking around and this >>> seems to >>> be a frequent observation. >>> Now working on a solution, probabely a set of microswitches and a > small >>> light will do the trick, since it is almost impossible to verify by >>> the eye. >>> >>> A thanks to Andy of Europa, who responded quickly and is trying to > get >>> the >>> parts over even this week !! >>> >>> Cheers >>> >>> Sven den Boer >>> A168 (Cabrio) >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > > ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:33:54 AM PST US From: "Houlihan,Tim" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Did you lock the door today ? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Houlihan,Tim" Bob I think that the original and important area of failure was probably the door latches undoing , whatever the reason !. The hinges only failed when grossly overloaded by the door being taken by the 100Kns or so airflow. At least this way you do not have a repair to the fuselage attachments to contend with, now if only you could find the door !! :<) Tim Houlihan -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of R.C.Harrison Subject: RE: Europa-List: Did you lock the door today ? --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Sven. That all sounds somewhat of an important item of failure! Was there any likelihood of the hinges being maligned at all and in a position of stress when the door was finally closed down? Have you any feed back as to the situation with the other door hinges? Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sven den Boer Subject: Re: Europa-List: Did you lock the door today ? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Sven den Boer" Jeff, The hinges sheared right in the middle. Cheers Sven ----- Original Message ----- From: "JEFF ROBERTS" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Did you lock the door today ? ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:11:20 AM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Flap drive tube clearance to fuselage floor --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Bob, Many thanks for your email - I didnt realise they are so variable. Can anyone with an XS kit with a number around 537 comment? Or even better, measure up for me! Kind regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation. Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1350 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JR (Bob) Gowing Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flap drive tube clearance to fuselage floor --> Europa-List message posted by: "JR (Bob) Gowing" Jeremy Where the flap cross tube is depends upon where the main wing pins were drilled in your cockpit module. Mine were high - I had to make bulge in the top of my extended baggage bay console to make room for the flap drive rod-end! And I could only with difficulty sight accross under the fuse to set the bearings. J R (Bob) Gowing, UK Kit 327 in Oz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: Europa-List: Flap drive tube clearance to fuselage floor > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > > Guys, > > A quick one for those who have been there, done that=85 > > Can anyone give me the approximate clearance between the lowest point in the > vee of the flap drive cross tube FL15 and the fuselage floor in both the > flaps-retracted and flaps-fully-down positions? ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:41:46 AM PST US From: N55XS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flap drive tube clearance to fuselage floor --> Europa-List message posted by: N55XS Jeremy Davey wrote: > >Can anyone with an XS kit with a number around 537 comment? Or even better, >measure up for me! > >Kind regards, >Jeremy > > > > Jeremy, On A055 (I don't know how that corrolates with the European numbering - around 1999) the bottom of the "U" is approximately 1" from the floor, when the flaps are fully down. Hope this helps... -- Jeff - A055 FWF left to do... -- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:22:40 PM PST US From: NEEL Jean Philippe Subject: Re: RE : Europa-List: WOODCOMP Kremen Propeller SR2000 --> Europa-List message posted by: NEEL Jean Philippe salut Michel Je pense que tu as seulement deux choses faire pour faire voler ta Woodcomp Obenir d'Europa un papier reconnaissant cette helice comme une option montable sur l'europa. C'est une piece comme une autre! Avertir ton controleur avec copie du document precedent Il ne faut surtout pas leur demander le droit de monter cette helice car dans ce cas, ne la connaissant pas il vont ouvrir le parapluie et tout sera bloqu.Par ailleurs cette modification est de la responsabilit du constructeur comme dit dans le nouveau document DGAC/GSAC qui traite des CNRA CNSK. . Ref RP-42-50 . Va voir le 6.1. Si tu n'as pas ce document je peux te le passer JP PS Le document du PFA peut sans doute aider mais ce serait mieux que le constructeur Europa s'engage mau11 wrote: --> Europa-List message posted by: "mau11" Hello Tim, Is it possible to send to me a PFA document concerning your propeller? I have some problems with French administration... Thanks --|-- --------(*)-------- Michel AUVRAY -----Message d'origine----- De : owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Houlihan,Tim Envoy : mardi 29 mars 2005 23:34 : europa-list@matronics.com Objet : RE: Europa-List: WOODCOMP Kremen Propeller SR2000 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Houlihan,Tim" --> I have recently taken delivery of an SR2000 prop for my Europa Classic, but no flight details yet. Woodcomp have developed a spinner to suit the Rotax powered classic aircraft and I must say it looks great. At least one other classic owner has ordered a Woodcomp so we can expect some news soon. regards Tim Houlihan No 10 G-BZTH -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of mau11 Subject: Europa-List: WOODCOMP Kremen Propeller SR2000 --> Europa-List message posted by: "mau11" I heard a Europa builders buy this propeller in UK. Do you have flight news? Do you have a PFA documents to install this propeller with a 912 engine on a Europa monowheel? Thank you --|-- --------(*)-------- Michel AUVRAY N=B0145 --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:40:37 PM PST US From: "Ronald J. Parigoris" Subject: Europa-List: Size of Airmaster Spinner on 914? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" What choice of Airmaster spinner did those with monowheel XS and 914UL choose? Site shows 8" , 10" , 11" Aluminium and Europa Classic Composite. Thx. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:08:04 PM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Size of Airmaster Spinner on 914? From: "Tony Krzyzewski" Received-SPF: none --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Krzyzewski" Ron, >> What choice of Airmaster spinner did those with monowheel XS and 914UL choose? You don't get a choice with the XS! The Airmaster XS spinner is the same shape as the Europa supplied XS spinner. That's because they borrowed my XS fibreglass spinner, took it down to a company that makes aluminium spinners and created the spin form from that. In fact you'll now find around 30 different aircraft types flying round with Europa XS spinners on the front! Regards Tony ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:20:47 PM PST US From: "Garry" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Did you lock the door today ? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Garry" The hinges are one of the weak design areas of the Europa. I had an identical experience to Sven, but mine was on my first flight. At 300 feet on takeoff, the pilot side door departed the aircraft. The hinges are so weak that you dare not even do an engine run-up with the door open, or they will blow off their hinges. If you remember to firmly latch both doors, both front and rear shoot bolts, any time the engine is running, you'll not have any problems. Forget once, and you've lost a door. Garry Stout ----- Original Message ----- From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Did you lock the door today ? > --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" > > Hi! Sven. > That all sounds somewhat of an important item of failure! Was there any > likelihood of the hinges being maligned at all and in a position of > stress when the door was finally closed down? > Have you any feed back as to the situation with the other door hinges? > Regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Sven den > Boer > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Did you lock the door today ? > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Sven den Boer" > > > Jeff, > > The hinges sheared right in the middle. > > Cheers > > Sven > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "JEFF ROBERTS" > To: > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Did you lock the door today ? > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS >> >> Just curious Sven, >> When the door departed, where did the separation take place. Was it >> right at the hinge or did the bolts pull out of the holes. I have been > >> working on painting my doors and have been considering a fix for this >> worry that a cozy builder used. He placed an inside secondary latch. >> I'm not sure if this is legal because it cant open from the outside, >> but it would solve any worries. >> Jeff >> A258 >> On Apr 5, 2005, at 11:57 AM, Sven den Boer wrote: >> >> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Sven den Boer" >> > >> > >> > Saturday april 2nd, a nice day for a ride with beautiful weather. >> > After take off, turning out of the circuit and towards the lake, >> > having a >> > passenger onboard, a ride over water is always a bit more smooth. >> > After 15 minutes of flight a Whoosh sound was noted, I did not take >> > long to >> > realize that the pilot door had disappeared and had actually > departed >> > the >> > aircraft. Was I glad being over water. >> > The aircraft was undammaged and flying it was not different, except >> > for a >> > lot of noise due to the wind. >> > After an uneventfull landing and a couple of days of thinking and >> > investigating this mishap, it is most likely that the door did lock > at >> > the >> > forward position, but the aft locking pin was outside the fuselage. >> > Being a quite new Europa flyer I have been asking around and this >> > seems to >> > be a frequent observation. >> > Now working on a solution, probabely a set of microswitches and a > small >> > light will do the trick, since it is almost impossible to verify by >> > the eye. >> > >> > A thanks to Andy of Europa, who responded quickly and is trying to > get >> > the >> > parts over even this week !! >> > >> > Cheers >> > >> > Sven den Boer >> > A168 (Cabrio) >> > >> > >> >> >> >> >> >> > > >