Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:12 AM - Re: Spark plug change intervals (Bill & Sue Sisley)
2. 02:55 AM - Finishing (DvdPar@aol.com)
3. 05:05 AM - Re: Finishing (Rick Audy)
4. 06:48 AM - Re: Finishing (Jeremy Davey)
5. 07:48 AM - Re: Finishing ()
6. 08:27 AM - Aviation News (AVIATION GROUP)
7. 08:58 AM - Filling (DvdPar@aol.com)
8. 02:16 PM - Re: Finishing (Stephan Cassel)
9. 02:20 PM - Re: sat 23 april club trip (ACJARVIS1@aol.com)
10. 02:33 PM - Re: sat 23 april club trip (Jim Puglise)
11. 04:13 PM - FW: Electric trim problems. (R.C.Harrison)
12. 04:25 PM - Re: Electric trim problems. (Paul McAllister)
13. 04:44 PM - Re: Electric trim problems. (Cliff Shaw)
14. 05:35 PM - Re: Starter kick back.... (SPurpura@aol.com)
15. 05:38 PM - Re: Spark plug change intervals (SPurpura@aol.com)
16. 05:41 PM - Re: Finishing (SPurpura@aol.com)
17. 05:59 PM - Re: Finishing (Paul McAllister)
18. 11:31 PM - Re: Electric trim problems. (R.C.Harrison)
Message 1
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does not designate permitted sender hosts)
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client-ip=60.234.97.41;
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Subject: | Re: Spark plug change intervals |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Bill & Sue Sisley" <bill.sue@zip.co.nz>
I changed mine at 270hrs just because I had them out. Didn't really need to
and it made no difference to performance.
Sue and Bill
----- Original Message -----
From: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Subject: Europa-List: Spark plug change intervals
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister"
<paul.mcallister@qia.net>
>
> Hi All,
>
> I have a Rotax 914T. I was wondering how long people typically keep there
spark plugs before replacing them.
>
> Paul
>
>
Message 2
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--> Europa-List message posted by: DvdPar@aol.com
Just started filling and finishing the fuselage joint etc with expancell
mixed as required in the manual.
Seems to be taking a long time to harden, is this usual, how long have you
had to wait before sanding. Humidity 40% Temp average 22 deg.
Regards Dave Park
Message 3
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rick Audy" <rickaudy@msn.com>
I sure hope that is Celsius (a reasonable temperature) and not farenheit.
Rick
--> Europa-List message posted by: DvdPar@aol.com
>Just started filling and finishing the fuselage joint etc with expancell
>mixed as required in the manual. Seems to be taking a long time to harden,
>is this usual, how long have you had to wait before sanding. Humidity 40%
>Temp average 22 deg.
>Regards Dave Park
Message 4
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
Or Kelvin! :-)
Dave - the few bits I've done so far cured overnight to a sandable state -
no different to Ampreg and glass, flox or micro.
Cheers,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative
PFA EC Member
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is
possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation.
Tail done
Standard XS wings with mods underway
CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)
1350 build hours to date
Intended fit:
Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop
Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Audy
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Finishing
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rick Audy" <rickaudy@msn.com>
I sure hope that is Celsius (a reasonable temperature) and not farenheit.
Rick
--> Europa-List message posted by: DvdPar@aol.com
>Just started filling and finishing the fuselage joint etc with expancell
>mixed as required in the manual. Seems to be taking a long time to harden,
>is this usual, how long have you had to wait before sanding. Humidity 40%
>Temp average 22 deg.
>Regards Dave Park
Message 5
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--> Europa-List message posted by: <beecho@beecho.org>
HI Dave
I found that if I made the mix quite dry it sanded better. Also overnight
was not good enough but waiting until the following day made the sanding
much better.
Tom Friedland
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of DvdPar@aol.com
Subject: Europa-List: Finishing
--> Europa-List message posted by: DvdPar@aol.com
Just started filling and finishing the fuselage joint etc with expancell
mixed as required in the manual.
Seems to be taking a long time to harden, is this usual, how long have you
had to wait before sanding. Humidity 40% Temp average 22 deg.
Regards Dave Park
--
--
Message 6
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aeroelectric-list@matronics.com, pietenpol-list@matronics.com
--> Europa-List message posted by: AVIATION GROUP <aviationgrp@yahoo.com>
AVIATION News Group is to view & share your valuable comments and the latest trends
and happenings in the aviation industry.
Please click on the attached yahoo group link site to share & receive the updates
on the latest happenings, business ventures, business opportunities, Air Shows
and Exhibitions, New Aircraft releases, and certifications, Career news, Appointments
etc.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AVIATION-NEWS/
Please take few moments recommend us to your near & dears in the industry. We
welcome your valuable comments and updates.
With best regards
AVIATION NEWS.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AVIATION-NEWS/
---------------------------------
Message 7
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--> Europa-List message posted by: DvdPar@aol.com
Thanks all,
I think Ill just turn the temp up a bit ''C''!
Dave Park
Message 8
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Stephan Cassel" <cassel@sensewave.com>
I have used SP System 106 epoxy and expancel. The result is perfect.
Sandable next day. Much cheaper then Ampreg and SP System recommend it
for this use. Use slow 106 hardener, standard is too fast.
SP System has a primer called Hibuild. Gives an excellent surface.
But you can also use it as a "pin-hole-killer" if you mix same expancel
into it. One thin layer on the surface and the pin-hole is no more.
Hibuild as a primer does not take care of the pin-holes.
Regards
Stephan
#556
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy
Davey
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Finishing
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey"
<EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
Or Kelvin! :-)
Dave - the few bits I've done so far cured overnight to a sandable state
-
no different to Ampreg and glass, flox or micro.
Cheers,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative
PFA EC Member
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it
is
possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation.
Tail done
Standard XS wings with mods underway
CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)
1350 build hours to date
Intended fit:
Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop
Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Rick Audy
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Finishing
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Rick Audy" <rickaudy@msn.com>
I sure hope that is Celsius (a reasonable temperature) and not
farenheit.
Rick
--> Europa-List message posted by: DvdPar@aol.com
>Just started filling and finishing the fuselage joint etc with
expancell
>mixed as required in the manual. Seems to be taking a long time to
harden,
>is this usual, how long have you had to wait before sanding. Humidity
40%
>Temp average 22 deg.
>Regards Dave Park
Message 9
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Subject: | Re: sat 23 april club trip |
--> Europa-List message posted by: ACJARVIS1@aol.com
hi Dave
Thanks so much for the message about the le Touquet trip. I would have loved
to come somehow but it's my parents' diamond wedding complete with message
from the Queen so I will have to mis thiss one. Remember we are going for a
flight one day though and I'll buy the fuel!
On Friday ,long overdue, I'm bonding in the tail torque tube, with help from
Roger Sheridan. he's a lovely chap. I got a bit bogged down building a jig but
I'm glad I did as it all looks more organized now.
In early March Viv and I went up to Yorkshire and called in at Europa of
course. It was all uncannily the same . I bought a few bits and pieces and had
a
nice chat with Andy.
I raised the subject of the glider version but the inevitable answer is they
just dont have time or money to re start the testing needed ....I wonder if
you've any thoughts as how one might re kindle club interest in the 'glider' .
As you know I find it heart breaking that such performance potential is being
neglected....
Anyway have a wonderful day, and thanks again for your help with the module!
All the best,
Andrew
Message 10
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Subject: | sat 23 april club trip |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Puglise" <jimpuglise@comcast.net>
Andrew-
I am going to Lakeland toward the end of the week for the express
purpose of asking Andy about the glider. I have a glider wing kit, and
both my wife and I are rated, but Bob B. tells me that there is
(essentially) no manual and the build is a real bear. I would really
like to see them get back into it. That is what differentiates the
Eurpoa from all of the others out there. Had we known that the support
for that version was going to be cut off, we probably would have bought
a Jabiru. Again, had we known that they were having financial problems,
we might have gone a different route too. Ain't hindsight great?
Jim A 283, Punta Gorda, FL
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
ACJARVIS1@aol.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: sat 23 april club trip
--> Europa-List message posted by: ACJARVIS1@aol.com
hi Dave
Thanks so much for the message about the le Touquet trip. I would have
loved
to come somehow but it's my parents' diamond wedding complete with
message
from the Queen so I will have to mis thiss one. Remember we are going
for a
flight one day though and I'll buy the fuel!
On Friday ,long overdue, I'm bonding in the tail torque tube, with help
from
Roger Sheridan. he's a lovely chap. I got a bit bogged down building a
jig but
I'm glad I did as it all looks more organized now.
In early March Viv and I went up to Yorkshire and called in at Europa
of
course. It was all uncannily the same . I bought a few bits and pieces
and had a
nice chat with Andy.
I raised the subject of the glider version but the inevitable answer is
they
just dont have time or money to re start the testing needed ....I wonder
if
you've any thoughts as how one might re kindle club interest in the
'glider' .
As you know I find it heart breaking that such performance potential is
being
neglected....
Anyway have a wonderful day, and thanks again for your help with the
module!
All the best,
Andrew
Message 11
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Subject: | Electric trim problems. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Paul /all
AS I said in my post below I tried to fault my trim switches/motor for
about an hour to no avail. Took the a/c to do it's annual fight tests
today everything fine during take off and all preliminary checks when I
repeatedly operated the trim to full travel both directions and trying
to operate both panel and stick top switches to confuse it but it worked
totally satisfactorily.
Later did all the stall tests and VNE dive etc. but on my return from
getting to 30 miles nautical away from RAF Conningsby out over the
sea(there was abnormal military activity from both there and Waddington
to go any other direction) for the radio check I noticed the trim to be
slightly nose up (I guess due to fuel having been used ) hey presto! the
trim would not return to trim nose down yet again. For the next 15
minutes I kept the nose down trim button on the stick top pressed and it
came back to life and once again worked faultlessly during landing
de-rigging and stowage in the trailer.
I will have to try the light across the motor connections as has been
suggested but can any electronics wizards please advise if there is any
possibility that the relay deck may be causing this intermittent
problem?
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG EuropaMKI/Jabiru 3300
-----Original Message-----
From: R.C.Harrison [mailto:ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk]
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Electric trim problems.
Hi! Paul
I can confirm that I have a similar problem (or I'm hoping I HAD!)
For some time I have had an intermittent similar problem. The trim will
always go nose up no problem but should I go a LED bar too far it won't
reverse until I take it full nose up (huge control stick forces) then it
usually but sometimes only after about a minute will return. I suspected
the servo motor which since my Kit No. is 337 I guess will be the old
one. I had lots of written exchanges with the Ray Allen Co. resulting in
my sending it back for check over since they had concluded that an "end
or limiter switch wasn't allowing the reversing of the motor. I
returned it to them unfortunately they had a bad day when they received
it and didn't link my motor with my communications but checked it out
and found no fault.
I refitted it and when plugging my connectors at the panel back together
I discovered an internally broken or badly crimped wire.
I remade the wire connection and "hey presto". After two years it seemed
sorted!
However since then the problem has again returned and I have not been
able to get it to repeat on demand. The last time I flew I did my
pre-flight checks and I trimmed up a couple of LED bars and it wouldn't
return, pulled off the ramp and sat operating both the control on the
stick and the one on the panel. After about 10 minutes of multiple
switching it came back to life. I flew my mission ensuring not to trim
too far nose up, and on the return leg repeatedly trimmed nose up then
nose down without problem.
I have again checked all my connectors and stood for an hour trying to
reproduce the problem to no avail. I'm wondering if it is the relay
deck?
If you manage to isolate your problem would you be good enough to let me
know?
Best regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister"
<paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Hi all,
I posted a similar message on the Aeroelectric board. I am having
intermittent problems with my electric trim. Sometimes when I need to
slow and trim the aircraft for landing the trim motor won't actuate. I
initially suspected the down trim button, but once I had it not wanting
to respond to an "UP" button press as well.
I have wriggled wires, plugs and un plugged terminations and driven the
servo to the end stops but I haven't been able to duplicate the problem
on the ground. I am starting to suspect the servo and I am thinking it
might be having trouble reversing direction with air loads.
I'd be interested in anyone's ideas for trouble shooting. I have a 4 way
trim switch with a Ray Allen relay deck driving an older MAC servo unit.
One last question, can any one tell me the new part number for the servo
unit.
Thanks, Paul
Message 12
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Subject: | Re: Electric trim problems. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Bob,
Unfortunately everything in the chain is suspect, from the switch,
connectors, crimps, relay deck, cabling to the servo, to the servo its self.
A led would be a great trouble shooting aid, and its a matter of where do
you want to put it in the chain of events to start breaking the problem
down.
In my case I am very suspicious of the crimps I have made on the relay deck
wires as they are very fine. I have decided to buy one of Matt Dralle's
speed controllers because it replaces the relay deck, and makes my trim
motor speed adjustable. This solves my trim sensitivity problem and removes
a suspect part out of the chain.
I'll keep you posted.
Paul
Message 13
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Subject: | Re: Electric trim problems. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
> I will have to try the light across the motor connections as has been
> suggested but can any electronics wizards please advise if there is any
> possibility that the relay deck may be causing this intermittent
> problem?
> Regards
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG EuropaMKI/Jabiru 3300
>
Bob
I have been referred to as such from time to time (wizard)
Relays are notorious for failures in the way you described. Some designs of
relalys are better than others. It depends on there usage. In the trim
motor usage, the current is quit low and the repetition rate of use is very
low. This requires a dust covered relay with a wiping action on the points.
I don't know what kind of relay you are using. The ones I used are of the
type I described and have not failed (yet). I have a separate trim power
switch, because the other problem that relays have is they stay conducting
after you release the switch. (known as trim run-away)
The problem you have been describing sound more like a broken wire in the
control column. (but you have two sets of up-down switches)
Happy hunting !!!!. Use the light bulb trick and then you will know which
end of the plane the trouble is in.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds, WA 98020
425 776 5555
http://www.europaowners.org/WileE
Message 14
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Subject: | Re: Starter kick back.... |
--> Europa-List message posted by: SPurpura@aol.com
I'M USING AN ODDESSY BATTERY ALSO,IT IS MUCH BETTER THAN THE CONCORD BATTERY
EVER WAS.IT IS 2 YEARS OLD NOW AND AND IF IT SITS FOR 2 WEEKS THERE IS ABOUT A
1/2 TO 1 VOLT DROP AT THE BATTERY. A SOLAR CHARGER ON THE BATTERY ($10.00
FROM HARBOR FREIGHT)NOW MAINTAINS A FULL CHARGE AND HAS MADE STARTING MUCH EASIER.
SAM N77EU XS MONOWHEEL 914 ROTAX
Message 15
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Subject: | Re: Spark plug change intervals |
--> Europa-List message posted by: SPurpura@aol.com
LESS THAN 50 HRS USUALLY,DEPENDING ON HOW MUCH 100LL I USE.
SAM N77EU
Message 16
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--> Europa-List message posted by: SPurpura@aol.com
TRY SUPERFIL,ITS PREMIXED AND MORE CONSISTANT AND EASY TO USE,YOU WILL SAVE
ALOT OF TIME LATER ON WHEN SANDING.
Message 17
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" <paul.mcallister@qia.net>
Guys,
I have to echo Sam's comments regarding Superfil. I started with Expancel
and West Systems Epoxy and while it is cheap, the effort of mixing the stuff
up and trying to get a good batch to batch consistency is just not worth it.
I also got a bunch more pins holes with Expancel.
The other problem I had was with moisture ingress. I had to repaint the
side of my aircraft where I had used it due to moisture finding its way in
and then finding its way back out again when it was baked after painting. I
didn't have any such problems with Superfil. Yep, its more expensive, but
in my experience it wasn't worth the effort.
Just my 2 cents worth.
Paul
Message 18
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Subject: | Electric trim problems. |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Thanks Cliff/Paul
I have the Menzimer purpose made relay deck. I don't think it is a wire
again because when the problem is present it is on both the stick
circuit (micro switch) AND the panel circuit (rocker switch and the LED
display have also replaced by Ray Allen Company)
As you say I must get a light into circuit(or two!) or even chance
changing the damn relay because that may cause a probable wire fault to
get thrown out!
I don't have a problem with the speed of trim.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
> I will have to try the light across the motor connections as has
been
> suggested but can any electronics wizards please advise if there is
any
> possibility that the relay deck may be causing this intermittent
> problem?
> Regards
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG EuropaMKI/Jabiru 3300
>
Bob
I have been referred to as such from time to time (wizard)
Relays are notorious for failures in the way you described. Some designs
of
relalys are better than others. It depends on there usage. In the trim
motor usage, the current is quit low and the repetition rate of use is
very
low. This requires a dust covered relay with a wiping action on the
points.
I don't know what kind of relay you are using. The ones I used are of
the
type I described and have not failed (yet). I have a separate trim
power
switch, because the other problem that relays have is they stay
conducting
after you release the switch. (known as trim run-away)
The problem you have been describing sound more like a broken wire in
the
control column. (but you have two sets of up-down switches)
Happy hunting !!!!. Use the light bulb trick and then you will know
which
end of the plane the trouble is in.
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds, WA 98020
425 776 5555
http://www.europaowners.org/WileE
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