---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 04/20/05:17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:03 AM - Re: gas mixing (R Holder) 2. 12:03 AM - Re: gas mixing (R Holder) 3. 12:51 AM - Re: gas mixing (Jeremy Davey) 4. 06:26 AM - Re: Two points (Fred Fillinger) 5. 08:36 AM - Re: Two points (R.C.Harrison) 6. 08:48 AM - Re: Two points (nigel charles) 7. 09:20 AM - Re: Two points (Pete Lawless) 8. 09:22 AM - Re: Two points (Pete Lawless) 9. 10:14 AM - AW: Two points (Europa (Alfred Buess)) 10. 10:57 AM - Re: AW: Two points (Gerry Holland) 11. 11:00 AM - Re: Two points (nigel charles) 12. 01:38 PM - Re: Baltics and THREE Rallies Tour (David Joyce) 13. 03:54 PM - Re: gas mixing (Duncan McFadyean) 14. 05:26 PM - Re: gas mixing (Fergus Kyle) 15. 06:50 PM - Re: gas mixing () 16. 07:23 PM - Re: gas mixing () 17. 11:44 PM - Re: Two points (Pete Lawless) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:03:12 AM PST US From: R Holder Subject: Re: Europa-List: gas mixing --> Europa-List message posted by: R Holder kenneth b. carpenter wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "kenneth b. > carpenter" > > Has anyone explored the issue of mixing 50/50 87 > octane auto gas with 100 LL to get 93 octane gas for > 914T engines? I think 912S engines also need 93 octane > gas. Sounds like it would be better for the engine > than 100LL alone. Ken Carpenter N 9XS 914T Why not just use 91 or 93 octane Auto gas ! If you are carting auto gas into your hanger to mix it with Avgas, why not just use auto gas ? 912 912S and 914 all run on Mogas (auto gas) and the oil needs to be changed every 25 hours if more than 30% Avgas is used. The oil changes are at 50 hour intervals if you use Mogas. Mogas is also cheaper ($5 a US gal here in England) compared with over $7 a US gal for AVGAS. Richard Holder Europa TriGear G-OWWW High Cross ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:03:13 AM PST US From: R Holder Subject: Re: Europa-List: gas mixing --> Europa-List message posted by: R Holder kenneth b. carpenter wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "kenneth b. > carpenter" > > Has anyone explored the issue of mixing 50/50 87 > octane auto gas with 100 LL to get 93 octane gas for > 914T engines? I think 912S engines also need 93 octane > gas. Sounds like it would be better for the engine > than 100LL alone. Ken Carpenter N 9XS 914T Why not just use Auto gas ! If you are carting auto gas into your hanger to mix it with Avgas, why not just use auto gas ? 912 912S and 914 all run on Mogas (auto gas) and the oil needs to be changed every 25 hours if more than 30% Avgas is used. The oil changes are at 50 hour intervals if you use Mogas. Mogas is also cheaper ($5 a US gal here in England) compared with over $7 a US gal for AVGAS. Richard Holder Europa TriGear G-OWWW High Cross ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:51:41 AM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: gas mixing --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Richard and Ken, I may be wrong, but is it possible Ken is confusing octane ratings. 87 octane at the pumps in the US is 87 Octane MON (Mean Octane Number?), whereas the 95 octane stuff we're told to use in Europa is 95 Octane RON (Research Octane Number). The two are not the same measure, and MON gives a lower number than RON. 87MON is not far from 95RON, but my recommendation would be to do an MSN Search for these terms and come to an educated understanding of which auto gas you can use in the US. Either that, or ask a few folks flying Rotaxes what they use! :-) Cheers, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation. Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1380 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R Holder Subject: Re: Europa-List: gas mixing --> Europa-List message posted by: R Holder kenneth b. carpenter wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "kenneth b. > carpenter" > > Has anyone explored the issue of mixing 50/50 87 > octane auto gas with 100 LL to get 93 octane gas for > 914T engines? I think 912S engines also need 93 octane > gas. Sounds like it would be better for the engine > than 100LL alone. Ken Carpenter N 9XS 914T Why not just use 91 or 93 octane Auto gas ! If you are carting auto gas into your hanger to mix it with Avgas, why not just use auto gas ? 912 912S and 914 all run on Mogas (auto gas) and the oil needs to be changed every 25 hours if more than 30% Avgas is used. The oil changes are at 50 hour intervals if you use Mogas. Mogas is also cheaper ($5 a US gal here in England) compared with over $7 a US gal for AVGAS. Richard Holder Europa TriGear G-OWWW High Cross ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:26:29 AM PST US From: "Fred Fillinger" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Two points --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" > --> Europa-List message posted by: R Holder > ... > Secondly. Has anyone fitted an oil-stat in the oil lines > to the oil cooler ? Mine is always running cold, even with > various baffles/blanking plates around the radiator. An > oil stat might help. I had one on my rally car years ago. > It's a restriction when cold, so you can't put it in the line coming from the sump. The only place to put it is in the supply line to the oil pump, but still a restriction when cold. For purposes of flight, such experimentation doesn't suit me at least. :-) In the rally car setup, I'll guess the oil cooler is an add-on, set up so if not needed, the engine cools its oil like on all our cars driven in a more conservative manner? Reg, Fred F. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:36:52 AM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Two points --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Fred I GUESS you are talking Rotax but I have made my Jabiru oil cooling circuit controllable see my Oil Cooler Mod at "Bob Harrison's Europa G-PTAG on the http://www.crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk/europa.htm I don't believe in letting the cooler be permanently in circuit since I had a major leak fortunately over a short flight. As a thermostat system must pass some oil to sense the temperature you wouldn't now about oil loss until the donkey stops! Regards Bob Harrison. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Fillinger Subject: Re: Europa-List: Two points --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" > --> Europa-List message posted by: R Holder > ... > Secondly. Has anyone fitted an oil-stat in the oil lines > to the oil cooler ? Mine is always running cold, even with > various baffles/blanking plates around the radiator. An > oil stat might help. I had one on my rally car years ago. > It's a restriction when cold, so you can't put it in the line coming from the sump. The only place to put it is in the supply line to the oil pump, but still a restriction when cold. For purposes of flight, such experimentation doesn't suit me at least. :-) In the rally car setup, I'll guess the oil cooler is an add-on, set up so if not needed, the engine cools its oil like on all our cars driven in a more conservative manner? Reg, Fred F. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:48:25 AM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Two points --> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" >Secondly. Has anyone fitted an oil-stat in the oil lines to the oil cooler ? Mine is always running cold, even with various baffles/blanking plates around the radiator. An oil stat might help. I had one on my rally car years ago.< In the process of changing my firewall forward from Classic to XS I have designed a flap behind the radiators which will definitely control the flow of cooling air enabling control of coolant and oil temperatures. Whether it will make enough difference to avoid a thermostat we will have to wait until it is back in the air. When closed it cuts off up to about 90% of the outlet. I would sooner control temperature by controlling the cooling air as a thermostat could fail closed and that could be very expensive. Nigel Charles ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:20:57 AM PST US From: "Pete Lawless" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Two points --> Europa-List message posted by: "Pete Lawless" Hi Guys I have been looking at these as my oil runs cold in the winter and take time to warm up. The oil cooler in my local race car shop has feeds to and from both the engine and the radiator and thus passes oil at all times, controling the amount that passes through the radiator to control temerature. If anyone is interested I will dig out the spec. Regards Pete PS Has anyone got a mod approved by the PFA to instal a thermostat. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R.C.Harrison Subject: RE: Europa-List: Two points --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" --> Hi! Fred I GUESS you are talking Rotax but I have made my Jabiru oil cooling circuit controllable see my Oil Cooler Mod at "Bob Harrison's Europa G-PTAG on the http://www.crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk/europa.htm I don't believe in letting the cooler be permanently in circuit since I had a major leak fortunately over a short flight. As a thermostat system must pass some oil to sense the temperature you wouldn't now about oil loss until the donkey stops! Regards Bob Harrison. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Fillinger Subject: Re: Europa-List: Two points --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" > --> Europa-List message posted by: R Holder > ... > Secondly. Has anyone fitted an oil-stat in the oil lines > to the oil cooler ? Mine is always running cold, even with various > baffles/blanking plates around the radiator. An oil stat might help. I > had one on my rally car years ago. > It's a restriction when cold, so you can't put it in the line coming from the sump. The only place to put it is in the supply line to the oil pump, but still a restriction when cold. For purposes of flight, such experimentation doesn't suit me at least. :-) In the rally car setup, I'll guess the oil cooler is an add-on, set up so if not needed, the engine cools its oil like on all our cars driven in a more conservative manner? Reg, Fred F. -- -- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 09:22:02 AM PST US From: "Pete Lawless" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Two points --> Europa-List message posted by: "Pete Lawless" Nigel The wire to your flap could sieze or break and you would be in the same state. Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nigel charles Subject: RE: Europa-List: Two points --> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" --> >Secondly. Has anyone fitted an oil-stat in the oil lines to the oil cooler ? Mine is always running cold, even with various baffles/blanking plates around the radiator. An oil stat might help. I had one on my rally car years ago.< In the process of changing my firewall forward from Classic to XS I have designed a flap behind the radiators which will definitely control the flow of cooling air enabling control of coolant and oil temperatures. Whether it will make enough difference to avoid a thermostat we will have to wait until it is back in the air. When closed it cuts off up to about 90% of the outlet. I would sooner control temperature by controlling the cooling air as a thermostat could fail closed and that could be very expensive. Nigel Charles -- -- ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:14:06 AM PST US From: "Europa (Alfred Buess)" Subject: AW: Europa-List: Two points --> Europa-List message posted by: "Europa (Alfred Buess)" Richard, The German Rotax dealer Franz sells an oil-stat for the 912 series an also a coolant-stat. See (sorry - it's in german language): http://www.franz-aircraft.de/Rotax/willkommen.htm Zubehoer - Sonderzubehoer - bottom of page. Alfred Alfred Buess Laenggasse 81, CH-3052 Zollikofen, Switzerland Tel.: +41 (0)31 911 63 32, Fax: +41 (0)31 911 56 32 E-Mail: ykibuess@bluewin.ch Europa XS #097, Monowheel, Foam shortwing, Rotax 912S, Airmaster 332 CS -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Fillinger Subject: Re: Europa-List: Two points --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" > --> Europa-List message posted by: R Holder > ... > Secondly. Has anyone fitted an oil-stat in the oil lines > to the oil cooler ? Mine is always running cold, even with various > baffles/blanking plates around the radiator. An oil stat might help. I > had one on my rally car years ago. > ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 10:57:00 AM PST US Subject: Re: AW: Europa-List: Two points From: Gerry Holland --> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland > The German Rotax dealer Franz sells an oil-stat for the 912 series an > also a coolant-stat. See (sorry - it's in german language): > http://www.franz-aircraft.de/Rotax/willkommen.htm > Zubehoer - Sonderzubehoer - bottom of page. Thanks Alfred. Use the following service to convert to English: http://babelfish.altavista.com Add Website address and choose German to English and it will do a reasonable translation. Regards Gerry ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 11:00:52 AM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Two points --> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" >The wire to your flap could sieze or break and you would be in the same state.< Seizure is very unlikely and would probably be found preflight. If it broke the airflow would probably give a partial open position (spring loading would ensure this). In any event there would be enough cooling for cruise and descent. If a failure happened in T/O or climb a quick return to the airfield would be easy enough with partial cooling. Nigel ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:38:08 PM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Europa-List: Re: Baltics and THREE Rallies Tour --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" Bob, Well done for all the effort the two of you have clearly put in. The route sounds pretty good to me although the notion of getting to Southend at 6.00am makes the mind boggle a tad! Ideally we in G-XSDJ would like 20L of lead free mogas to top up. In case you haven't been using the same source.the Popular Flying article from March 2000 gave info as below for the Baltic states when they were asked whether Permit A/C were allowed in without special permission: Estonia - Estonian CAA, Pamu Road 6, 10148 Talinn, Estonia, Fax 00372 631 3688, Email ecaa@trenet.ee response time 2/52. Permission needed but would be granted on receipt of details Latvia - CAA, Airport Riga, LV-1053, Latvia. Fax 00371 7207122 Response time 7/52 The Authority hereby granted permission from such a date (without receiving full details) Lithuania - Directorate of Civil Aviation, Rodunios Kellas 2, LT-2023 Vilnius, Lithuania. Fax 00370 2739161 Same response as Latvia Response time 4/52 Poland - Civil Avn Dept, ul. T. Chalubinskiego 4, 00-928 Warsawa, Poland Fax 0048 22 6296378 Response time 3.5/52 same response + reminder flight plan needed + prior notification of which airports to be used Hope this helps! Regards, David Address: Stone Mill, Woodford, Berkeley, Glos., GL13 9JU Tel 01454 260542 ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:54:26 PM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: gas mixing --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" MON = Motor Octane Number. There is no direct relationship between RON and MON and the difference between the two in the case of a single fuel is used as a measure of temperature sensitivity. Duncan mcF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: gas mixing > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > > Richard and Ken, > > I may be wrong, but is it possible Ken is confusing octane ratings. 87 > octane at the pumps in the US is 87 Octane MON (Mean Octane Number?), > whereas the 95 octane stuff we're told to use in Europa is 95 Octane RON > (Research Octane Number). > > The two are not the same measure, and MON gives a lower number than RON. > 87MON is not far from 95RON, but my recommendation would be to do an MSN > Search for these terms and come to an educated understanding of which auto > gas you can use in the US. > > Either that, or ask a few folks flying Rotaxes what they use! :-) > > Cheers, > Jeremy > > Jeremy Davey > Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA > Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative > PFA EC Member > If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is > possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation. > Tail done > Standard XS wings with mods underway > CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) > 1380 build hours to date > Intended fit: > Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop > Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R Holder > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: gas mixing > > --> Europa-List message posted by: R Holder > > kenneth b. carpenter wrote: > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "kenneth b. > > carpenter" > > > > Has anyone explored the issue of mixing 50/50 87 > > octane auto gas with 100 LL to get 93 octane gas for > > 914T engines? I think 912S engines also need 93 octane > > gas. Sounds like it would be better for the engine > > than 100LL alone. Ken Carpenter N 9XS 914T > > Why not just use 91 or 93 octane Auto gas ! > > If you are carting auto gas into your hanger to mix it > with Avgas, why not just use auto gas ? > > 912 912S and 914 all run on Mogas (auto gas) and the oil > needs to be changed every 25 hours if more than 30% Avgas > is used. The oil changes are at 50 hour intervals if you > use Mogas. > > Mogas is also cheaper ($5 a US gal here in England) > compared with over $7 a US gal for AVGAS. > > Richard Holder > Europa TriGear G-OWWW High Cross > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:26:50 PM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Re: Europa-List: gas mixing --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" More Than You Wanted To Know: http://www.refiningonline.com/EngelhardKB/crep/TCR4_29.htm Ferg Ao64 Well, more than I wanted, anyway. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: gas mixing | --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" | | MON = Motor Octane Number. There is no direct relationship between RON and | MON and the difference between the two in the case of a single fuel is used | as a measure of temperature sensitivity. | | Duncan mcF. | ----- Original Message ----- | From: "Jeremy Davey" | To: | Subject: RE: Europa-List: gas mixing | | | > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" | > | > Richard and Ken, | > | > I may be wrong, but is it possible Ken is confusing octane ratings. 87 | > octane at the pumps in the US is 87 Octane MON (Mean Octane Number?), | > whereas the 95 octane stuff we're told to use in Europa is 95 Octane RON | > (Research Octane Number). | > | > The two are not the same measure, and MON gives a lower number than RON. | > 87MON is not far from 95RON, but my recommendation would be to do an MSN | > Search for these terms and come to an educated understanding of which auto | > gas you can use in the US. | > | > Either that, or ask a few folks flying Rotaxes what they use! :-) | > | > Cheers, | > Jeremy | > | > Jeremy Davey | > Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA | > Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative | > PFA EC Member | > If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is | > possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation. | > Tail done | > Standard XS wings with mods underway | > CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) | > 1380 build hours to date | > Intended fit: | > Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop | > Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms | > | > | > -----Original Message----- | > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com | > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R Holder | > To: europa-list@matronics.com | > Subject: Re: Europa-List: gas mixing | > | > --> Europa-List message posted by: R Holder | > | > kenneth b. carpenter wrote: | > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "kenneth b. | > > carpenter" | > > | > > Has anyone explored the issue of mixing 50/50 87 | > > octane auto gas with 100 LL to get 93 octane gas for | > > 914T engines? I think 912S engines also need 93 octane | > > gas. Sounds like it would be better for the engine | > > than 100LL alone. Ken Carpenter N 9XS 914T | > | > Why not just use 91 or 93 octane Auto gas ! | > | > If you are carting auto gas into your hanger to mix it | > with Avgas, why not just use auto gas ? | > | > 912 912S and 914 all run on Mogas (auto gas) and the oil | > needs to be changed every 25 hours if more than 30% Avgas | > is used. The oil changes are at 50 hour intervals if you | > use Mogas. | > | > Mogas is also cheaper ($5 a US gal here in England) | > compared with over $7 a US gal for AVGAS. | > | > Richard Holder | > Europa TriGear G-OWWW High Cross | > | > | | | | | | ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:50:03 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Europa-List: gas mixing --> Europa-List message posted by: Ok it's a stupid question. I was thinking of the times when traveling and one can get auto fuel and 100 LL at the same airport. If you mixed them, you would be loading the engine with less lead. I realize one can use TCP also to reduce the lead build-up. In the US, fields that have auto gas only have 87 octane so it cannot be used in the 914. ken ----- Original Message ----- From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: gas mixing > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" > > > MON = Motor Octane Number. There is no direct relationship between RON and > MON and the difference between the two in the case of a single fuel is > used > as a measure of temperature sensitivity. > > Duncan mcF. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeremy Davey" > To: > Subject: RE: Europa-List: gas mixing > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" >> >> Richard and Ken, >> >> I may be wrong, but is it possible Ken is confusing octane ratings. 87 >> octane at the pumps in the US is 87 Octane MON (Mean Octane Number?), >> whereas the 95 octane stuff we're told to use in Europa is 95 Octane RON >> (Research Octane Number). >> >> The two are not the same measure, and MON gives a lower number than RON. >> 87MON is not far from 95RON, but my recommendation would be to do an MSN >> Search for these terms and come to an educated understanding of which >> auto >> gas you can use in the US. >> >> Either that, or ask a few folks flying Rotaxes what they use! :-) >> >> Cheers, >> Jeremy >> >> Jeremy Davey >> Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA >> Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative >> PFA EC Member >> If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it >> is >> possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation. >> Tail done >> Standard XS wings with mods underway >> CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) >> 1380 build hours to date >> Intended fit: >> Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop >> Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R Holder >> To: europa-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: gas mixing >> >> --> Europa-List message posted by: R Holder >> >> kenneth b. carpenter wrote: >> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "kenneth b. >> > carpenter" >> > >> > Has anyone explored the issue of mixing 50/50 87 >> > octane auto gas with 100 LL to get 93 octane gas for >> > 914T engines? I think 912S engines also need 93 octane >> > gas. Sounds like it would be better for the engine >> > than 100LL alone. Ken Carpenter N 9XS 914T >> >> Why not just use 91 or 93 octane Auto gas ! >> >> If you are carting auto gas into your hanger to mix it >> with Avgas, why not just use auto gas ? >> >> 912 912S and 914 all run on Mogas (auto gas) and the oil >> needs to be changed every 25 hours if more than 30% Avgas >> is used. The oil changes are at 50 hour intervals if you >> use Mogas. >> >> Mogas is also cheaper ($5 a US gal here in England) >> compared with over $7 a US gal for AVGAS. >> >> Richard Holder >> Europa TriGear G-OWWW High Cross >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:00 PM PST US From: Subject: Re: Europa-List: gas mixing --> Europa-List message posted by: ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Europa-List: gas mixing > --> Europa-List message posted by: > > Ok it's a stupid question. I was thinking of the times when traveling and > one can get auto fuel and 100 LL at the same airport. If you mixed them, > you would be loading the engine with less lead. I realize one can use TCP > also to reduce the lead build-up. In the US, fields that have auto gas > only > have 87 octane so it cannot be used in the 914. > ken > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Duncan McFadyean" > To: > Subject: Re: Europa-List: gas mixing > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" >> >> >> MON = Motor Octane Number. There is no direct relationship between RON >> and >> MON and the difference between the two in the case of a single fuel is >> used >> as a measure of temperature sensitivity. >> >> Duncan mcF. >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Jeremy Davey" >> To: >> Subject: RE: Europa-List: gas mixing >> >> >>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" >>> >>> >>> Richard and Ken, >>> >>> I may be wrong, but is it possible Ken is confusing octane ratings. 87 >>> octane at the pumps in the US is 87 Octane MON (Mean Octane Number?), >>> whereas the 95 octane stuff we're told to use in Europa is 95 Octane RON >>> (Research Octane Number). >>> >>> The two are not the same measure, and MON gives a lower number than RON. >>> 87MON is not far from 95RON, but my recommendation would be to do an MSN >>> Search for these terms and come to an educated understanding of which >>> auto >>> gas you can use in the US. >>> >>> Either that, or ask a few folks flying Rotaxes what they use! :-) >>> >>> Cheers, >>> Jeremy >>> >>> Jeremy Davey >>> Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA >>> Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative >>> PFA EC Member >>> If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it >>> is >>> possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation. >>> Tail done >>> Standard XS wings with mods underway >>> CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) >>> 1380 build hours to date >>> Intended fit: >>> Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop >>> Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms >>> >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R Holder >>> To: europa-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: Re: Europa-List: gas mixing >>> >>> --> Europa-List message posted by: R Holder >>> >>> kenneth b. carpenter wrote: >>> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "kenneth b. >>> > carpenter" >>> > >>> > Has anyone explored the issue of mixing 50/50 87 >>> > octane auto gas with 100 LL to get 93 octane gas for >>> > 914T engines? I think 912S engines also need 93 octane >>> > gas. Sounds like it would be better for the engine >>> > than 100LL alone. Ken Carpenter N 9XS 914T >>> >>> Why not just use 91 or 93 octane Auto gas ! >>> >>> If you are carting auto gas into your hanger to mix it >>> with Avgas, why not just use auto gas ? >>> >>> 912 912S and 914 all run on Mogas (auto gas) and the oil >>> needs to be changed every 25 hours if more than 30% Avgas >>> is used. The oil changes are at 50 hour intervals if you >>> use Mogas. >>> >>> Mogas is also cheaper ($5 a US gal here in England) >>> compared with over $7 a US gal for AVGAS. >>> >>> Richard Holder >>> Europa TriGear G-OWWW High Cross >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:44:03 PM PST US From: "Pete Lawless" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Two points --> Europa-List message posted by: "Pete Lawless" Morning Nigel When did you last have a termostat fail on a car? I spent 20 years driving upwards of 50,000 a year with my wife's car doing an additional 10,000 and in all that time I have not replaced one thermostat. On the other hand I have had to change bowden cables on aeroplanes serveral times, even one of the throttle cables on the Europa has needed changing. Even if your thermostat does fail cutting out the radiator it still does not stop the oil flowing. Regards Pete -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of nigel charles Subject: RE: Europa-List: Two points --> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" --> >The wire to your flap could sieze or break and you would be in the same state.< Seizure is very unlikely and would probably be found preflight. If it broke the airflow would probably give a partial open position (spring loading would ensure this). In any event there would be enough cooling for cruise and descent. If a failure happened in T/O or climb a quick return to the airfield would be easy enough with partial cooling. Nigel -- --