---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Sat 04/23/05:25 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 03:01 AM - Commisioning Engine (fuel /oil) (ctsmallwood) 2. 04:19 AM - Re: Commisioning Engine (fuel /oil) (R.C.Harrison) 3. 04:51 AM - Trailer Wing Support (Jim Butcher) 4. 04:52 AM - Ground Connection (Jim Butcher) 5. 04:55 AM - Oil Themrostat (Jim Butcher) 6. 05:22 AM - Re: gas mixing (William Daniell) 7. 05:32 AM - Re: Oil Themrostat (AVIATION GROUP) 8. 06:07 AM - Re: Trailer Wing Support (Jacques.POINT@total.com) 9. 07:00 AM - Re: Ground Connection (Simon Smith) 10. 07:36 AM - Re: gas mixing (Garry) 11. 07:45 AM - 914 Waste Gate Sticking (TELEDYNMCS@aol.com) 12. 08:54 AM - Antenna Coax (Troy Maynor) 13. 09:28 AM - Fw: (martin stevens) 14. 09:44 AM - Re: Antenna Coax (Fred Fillinger) 15. 09:49 AM - Re: Ground Connection (Fred Fillinger) 16. 09:53 AM - Re: 914 Waste Gate Sticking (Fred Fillinger) 17. 10:43 AM - 100LL and TCP (John & Paddy Wigney) 18. 11:14 AM - Proper Bolts for LG03 (EuropaForum) 19. 12:14 PM - Re: Proper Bolts for LG03 (Kevin And Ann Klinefelter) 20. 02:04 PM - Re: Fw: (nigel charles) 21. 04:51 PM - Re: FIRST FLIGHT (CHUCK RHOADS) 22. 07:23 PM - Re: FIRST FLIGHT (Jacques.POINT@total.com) 23. 08:22 PM - bad cold starts (David DeFord) 24. 10:33 PM - Re: bad cold starts (R.C.Harrison) 25. 11:35 PM - Re: bad cold starts (josok) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 03:01:50 AM PST US From: "ctsmallwood" Subject: Europa-List: Commisioning Engine (fuel /oil) --> Europa-List message posted by: "ctsmallwood" Hi All Just getting to the engine start up phase at last!! Does anyone in the UK have the relevant gauges I may borrow for the fuel and oil tests. Obviously I will reimburse post etc or collect I live in Ripley Derbys near A38 Tel 01773 570329 Regards Colin Smallwood ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 04:19:47 AM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Commisioning Engine (fuel /oil) --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Colin Andy Draper did mine at Wombleton prior to flight testing regards Bob H G-PTAG -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of ctsmallwood Subject: Europa-List: Commisioning Engine (fuel /oil) --> Europa-List message posted by: "ctsmallwood" Hi All Just getting to the engine start up phase at last!! Does anyone in the UK have the relevant gauges I may borrow for the fuel and oil tests. Obviously I will reimburse post etc or collect I live in Ripley Derbys near A38 Tel 01773 570329 Regards Colin Smallwood ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:51:36 AM PST US From: "Jim Butcher" Subject: Europa-List: Trailer Wing Support --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Butcher" Does anyone have a decent photo of the factory trailer showing the wing support at the spar end? I'm trying to determine if the spar pin hole is used to keep the wing from sliding forward and backwards as the trailer speeds up and slows down. Or any suggestions on how others have addressed this situation? Thanks Jim Butcher A185 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:52:30 AM PST US From: "Jim Butcher" Subject: Europa-List: Ground Connection --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Butcher" In wiring the battery to our 914, I found the only threaded holes in the crankcase are quite far forward making the ground cable longer than I wish. Has anyone connected the ground cable under the socket head bolt that connects the Europa engine mounting frame to the white Rotax engine mounting frame. My concern is having a soft metal lug under the head of that stressed bolt. Thanks Jim Butcher A185 ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:55:14 AM PST US From: "Jim Butcher" Subject: Europa-List: Oil Themrostat --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Butcher" I believe John Hurst installed an oil thermostat in the 914 demonstrator. He found it necessary when gliding. Perhaps Dave Anderson would comment as I think he did the same. Lockwood shows an oil thermostat in their catalog. Jim Butcher A185 N241BW XS 914 short wings now, long later, finishing FWF ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 05:22:35 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: gas mixing FILETIME=[5251AEB0:01C547FD] --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" We have the problem of low octane mogas in Bogota Colombia where I live. I have a friend who suffered an engine failure as use of low octane mogas (so the Rotax people said). The cause according to rotax was detonation. The solution use here is to Mix Mogas with Avgas, 50/50 or to use straight avgas and take the price and maintenance hit. I change plugs and filter every 25 hours Will Daniell Trying to get fuselage closed -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Garry Subject: Re: Europa-List: gas mixing --> Europa-List message posted by: "Garry" Mike, my practical "in a nutshell" advise would be to use the highest octane rated Mogas you can buy, which is usually 93 octane. If you can't get Mogas, then use 100LL. This advise goes for any Rotax engine, i.e.: 912, 912S or 914. As to oil and filter changes you can safely go to 100 hours if you use exclusively Mogas, but since it's cheap I usually change mine around 50 hours. If you use 100LL exclusively I'd change my oil closer to every 50 hours since the lead in the gas will find it's way into the oil. This advise is based on 6 years of flying with my trigear 914. A word of caution to 914 users. The exclusive use of 100LL fuel WILL sooner or later cause "sticking" of the turbo wastegate butterfly valve. When this happens, you will not have a flyable airplane. The solution is to regularly spray the wastegate valve with a penetrating spray. In the US I have found a product called "Blaster" works miracles. Also, you can add TCP additive to your fuel, but it's hard to find. Exclusive use of 100LL also will cause your fuel filters to clog quicker, and your spark plugs to foul quicker. Regards, Garry Stout N4220S, A60, Trigear, 450 hours. ----- Original Message ----- From: "MICHAEL PARKIN" Subject: Re: Europa-List: gas mixing > --> Europa-List message posted by: "MICHAEL PARKIN" > > > OK, I am now officially confused. Mogas, Avgas, RON, MON, oil changes at > 50hrs or 25hrs with Avgas? According to my Rotax maintenance manual, oil > changes are required at 100hr intervals. What am I missing. > > regards, > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "R Holder" > To: > Subject: Re: Europa-List: gas mixing > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: R Holder >> >> kenneth b. carpenter wrote: >>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "kenneth b. >>> carpenter" >>> >>> Has anyone explored the issue of mixing 50/50 87 >>> octane auto gas with 100 LL to get 93 octane gas for >>> 914T engines? I think 912S engines also need 93 octane >>> gas. Sounds like it would be better for the engine >>> than 100LL alone. Ken Carpenter N 9XS 914T >> >> Why not just use Auto gas ! >> >> If you are carting auto gas into your hanger to mix it >> with Avgas, why not just use auto gas ? >> >> 912 912S and 914 all run on Mogas (auto gas) and the oil >> needs to be changed every 25 hours if more than 30% Avgas >> is used. The oil changes are at 50 hour intervals if you >> use Mogas. >> >> Mogas is also cheaper ($5 a US gal here in England) >> compared with over $7 a US gal for AVGAS. >> >> Richard Holder >> Europa TriGear G-OWWW High Cross >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 05:32:39 AM PST US From: AVIATION GROUP Subject: Re: Europa-List: Oil Themrostat --> Europa-List message posted by: AVIATION GROUP AVIATION News is to view & share your valuable comments and the latest trends and happenings in the aviation industry. Please click on the attached yahoo group link site to share & receive the updates on the latest happenings, business ventures, business opportunities, Air Shows and Exhibitions, New Aircraft releases, and certifications, Career news, Appointments etc. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/AVIATION-NEWS/ Please take few moments recommend us to your near & dears in the industry. We welcome your valuable comments and updates. Jim Butcher wrote:--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Butcher" I believe John Hurst installed an oil thermostat in the 914 demonstrator. He found it necessary when gliding. Perhaps Dave Anderson would comment as I think he did the same. Lockwood shows an oil thermostat in their catalog. Jim Butcher A185 N241BW XS 914 short wings now, long later, finishing FWF --------------------------------- ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 06:07:44 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trailer Wing Support From: Jacques.POINT@total.com 14, 2004) at 23/04/2005 14:55:08, Serialize complete at 23/04/2005 14:55:08, Itemize by SMTP Server on XFRPAR-HE03/GROUP/Corp(Release 6.5.1|January 21, 2004) at 23/04/2005 14:55:08, Serialize by Router on XFRPAR-HE03/GROUP/Corp(Release 6.5.1|January 21, 2004) at 23/04/2005 14:55:09, Serialize complete at 23/04/2005 14:55:09 --> Europa-List message posted by: Jacques.POINT@total.com Hi Jim, I have the factory trailer that I get at the same time as the Kit (#148). Yes, the spare pin hole is used to maintain the wing from sliding. I am at work at present (Iran) but will comeback home in France at the end of the week (29/04). In fact, the spare is pushed into a frame that hold it from moving up and down and a pine secure it the other way. Simple. If you are not in a hurry will shoot and send photos to you as son as I will be back. Just let me know. Jacques Point #148, Interior and paint to go! "Jim Butcher" Sent by: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com 04/23/2005 04:11 PM Please respond to europa-list To: "europalist" cc: Subject: Europa-List: Trailer Wing Support --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Butcher" Does anyone have a decent photo of the factory trailer showing the wing support at the spar end? I'm trying to determine if the spar pin hole is used to keep the wing from sliding forward and backwards as the trailer speeds up and slows down. Or any suggestions on how others have addressed this situation? Thanks Jim Butcher A185 ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 07:00:39 AM PST US From: "Simon Smith" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Ground Connection --> Europa-List message posted by: "Simon Smith" There is a threaded hole (6mm???) on the top rear of the rear right cylinder which is where mine is earthed as per Nev's suggestion. Simon -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jim Butcher Subject: Europa-List: Ground Connection --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jim Butcher" In wiring the battery to our 914, I found the only threaded holes in the crankcase are quite far forward making the ground cable longer than I wish. Has anyone connected the ground cable under the socket head bolt that connects the Europa engine mounting frame to the white Rotax engine mounting frame. My concern is having a soft metal lug under the head of that stressed bolt. Thanks Jim Butcher A185 ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 07:36:50 AM PST US From: "Garry" Subject: Re: Europa-List: gas mixing --> Europa-List message posted by: "Garry" Jeremy, in the US I believe the octane number posted on the pumps is an average of RON and MON testing methods, but I can't be absolutely positive on that. Regardless, I continue to suggest that you use the highest rated mogas you can conveniently find. Regarding vapor lock, most of the refineries in the US will "blend" their fuel for the specific season of the year, the geographic location they are delivering to, and most importantly the expected climatic temperatures. For very cold climates in the winter they include additives to enhance volatility and thus cold weather starting. In the hot summer time they reduce the additives to lower the volatility to prevent vapor lock. Personally I had just that experience, having purchased some fuel in the cold of the winter, but didn't get around to putting it in my plane until the hot summer months. Indeed, I did experience considerable difficulty re-starting the engine once it had been run up to operating temperatures. Definitely due to vapor lock, or the boiling of the fuel in the fuel lines. Once I drained out that fuel, and replaced it with recently purchased "summer" fuel, all was fine. Strange, huh? Garry Stout N4220S A60 450hrs ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Davey" > > I'm assuming you mean 93MON as I think that's the highest-rated fuel > normally available at the pumps in the US. Can you confirm? ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 07:45:44 AM PST US From: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com Subject: Europa-List: 914 Waste Gate Sticking --> Europa-List message posted by: TELEDYNMCS@aol.com In a message dated 4/23/2005 3:00:38 AM Eastern Daylight Time, europa-list-digest@matronics.com writes: > A word of caution to 914 users. The exclusive use of 100LL fuel WILL > sooner > or later cause "sticking" of the turbo wastegate butterfly valve. When this > > happens, you will not have a flyable airplane. > > This happened to a guy who used to fly sailplanes from our field. After he > sold his last sailplane he owned a 914 powered Katana motorglider for a while. > On a flight back from Florida he stopped somewhere in South Georgia to > refuel. Upon departure, at about 1800' agl, the waste gate stuck closed, the > engine over boosted and snapped the crank. Fortunately, he was able to glide back > to the airport. The engine was ruined. He told me he was aware of the > possibility of the waste gate sticking when using 100LL, but it happened so fast he > couldn't respond quickly enough to save the engine. > > Regards, > > John Lawton > Dunlap, TN > A-245 (Glass is in, control surfaces filled, just about to cook them for the > second time) > > Left to do: Paint and upholstery, engine and prop. ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 08:54:09 AM PST US From: "Troy Maynor" Subject: Europa-List: Antenna Coax --> Europa-List message posted by: "Troy Maynor" Hi All, I have read that RG400 is the best cable to use for the transponder. I know it is probably good to use it for the comm. radio as well but I already have a small roll of RG58 for use in the comm. side. Is it worth the extra expense to get RG400 for the radio or is the RG58 adequate? Will the RG400 fit the same BNC connectors as the RG58 fits? Troy Maynor N120EU Europa Monowheel Classic Left to finish: Paint,interior,engine install, wiring. Weaverville, NC USA ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:28:31 AM PST US From: "martin stevens" Subject: Europa-List: Fw: --> Europa-List message posted by: "martin stevens" ----- Original Message ----- From: martin stevens Does anyone have a contact no for Brian Nelson ex Rd Aviation Regards Martin ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 09:44:31 AM PST US From: "Fred Fillinger" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Antenna Coax --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" "Troy Maynor" wrote: > > I have read that RG400 is the best cable to use for the transponder. > I know it is probably good to use it for the comm. radio as well but > I already have a small roll of RG58 for use in the comm. side. Is it > worth the extra expense to get RG400 for the radio or is the RG58 > adequate? At comm frequency, the longest run of RG400 in this size aircraft will give you only 4% gain in signal. RG-400 is supposed to have greater longevity, but RG-58 should last about 20 years. IMO, a waste of money if you already have 58 in stock. Reg, Fred F. ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 09:49:12 AM PST US From: "Fred Fillinger" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ground Connection --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" > "Jim Butcher" wrote: > > Has anyone connected the ground cable under the socket > head bolt that connects the Europa engine mounting frame... > My concern is having a soft metal lug under the head of > that stressed bolt. That's where I connected the ground, but a good point on the stress in operation. Only one bolt, though, so maybe it untorques just a little. I drilled a hole in each head and nut anyway, and safety wired 'em. This is not aircraft hardware and the nut doesn't seem to grip all that much. The time to do this I figured will be offset by no need to check torque during periodic maintenance. Reg, Fred F. ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 09:53:34 AM PST US From: "Fred Fillinger" Subject: Re: Europa-List: 914 Waste Gate Sticking --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" > Upon departure, at about 1800' agl, the waste gate stuck > closed, the engine over boosted and snapped the crank. > > John Lawton Oh, my... How much boost is available beyond the regulated max of 39 inches? Good thing I have a digital MAP sensor + digital panel meter -- guess I should add an aural/visual alarm to that now! The basic setup is just an auto parts store item, a trimpot, plus $10 LCD DPM. The alarm will require some less trivial circuitry. Reg, Fred F. ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:43:38 AM PST US From: John & Paddy Wigney Subject: Europa-List: 100LL and TCP --> Europa-List message posted by: John & Paddy Wigney Hi Garry (and Europa list), I endorse your comments regarding TCP additive. I use it at 30 ml per 10 US gallons when I fill up with 100LL, which is most of the time. I notice that when I change my plugs at 100 hours, they are always in excellent condition. Also when I change my oil at 50 hours, there is always a grey lead sludge in suspension in the oil (Valvoline Durablend semi-synthetic 10W-40), so I assume that the lead is not plating out in the engine. Since I have not had the need to check inside my engine, I cannot confirm that. Users should be aware that TCP (tricresyl phosphate) is not a pleasant chemical and it can be toxic. This is why the TCP containers are labelled "Do not carry in aircraft." My understanding is that there was a fatal accident when a partially full container (probably a 1 gallon can) burst at altitude in a small plane. One can use heavy wall aluminum containers such as those used for camping fuel for safer storage. Regarding other issues with100LL, I have seen no clogging problems with my fuel filter(Andair) with 100LL. See http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/appages/alcortcp.php and http://www.alcorinc.com/DOCS/1/tcp.html for more information. Cheers, John N262WF, mono XS, 912S, 400 hours Mooresville, North Carolina <<<<<<<< Time: 11:17:23 AM PST US From: "Garry" Subject: Re: Europa-List: gas mixing Mike, my practical "in a nutshell" advise would be to use the highest octane rated Mogas you can buy, which is usually 93 octane. If you can't get Mogas, then use 100LL. This advise goes for any Rotax engine, i.e.: 912, 912S or 914. As to oil and filter changes you can safely go to 100 hours if you use exclusively Mogas, but since it's cheap I usually change mine around 50 hours. If you use 100LL exclusively I'd change my oil closer to every 50 hours since the lead in the gas will find it's way into the oil. This advise is based on 6 years of flying with my trigear 914. A word of caution to 914 users. The exclusive use of 100LL fuel WILL sooner or later cause "sticking" of the turbo wastegate butterfly valve. When this happens, you will not have a flyable airplane. The solution is to regularly spray the wastegate valve with a penetrating spray. In the US I have found a product called "Blaster" works miracles. Also, you can add TCP additive to your fuel, but it's hard to find. Exclusive use of 100LL also will cause your fuel filters to clog quicker, and your spark plugs to foul quicker. Regards, Garry Stout N4220S, A60, Trigear, 450 hours. ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 11:14:28 AM PST US From: EuropaForum Subject: Europa-List: Proper Bolts for LG03 --> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaForum Does anyone know where to get proper spec. bolts for holding mono wheel swing arm bearings (LGO3) in place? All the manual has is 4 off 5/16 UNC X 2 1/4 bolt head A A \ S \. I want to get the proper material and hardness and a pre-drilled head. After 10 bucks in cobalt drill bits all I have is a bolt with a 1/16 drill bit snapped off and fused in the bolt head. Thanks, Steved. ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 12:14:04 PM PST US From: Kevin And Ann Klinefelter Subject: Re: Europa-List: Proper Bolts for LG03 --> Europa-List message posted by: Kevin And Ann Klinefelter I did the same thing, broke a drill bit in one. I got Europa to send me one cuz I couldnt find one in my little town. Did you try McMaster- Carr? Kevin EuropaForum wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaForum > >Does anyone know where to get proper spec. bolts for holding mono wheel >swing arm bearings (LGO3) in place? >All the manual has is 4 off 5/16 UNC X 2 1/4 bolt head A A \ S \. I >want to get the proper material and hardness and a pre-drilled head. >After 10 bucks in cobalt drill bits all I have is a bolt with a 1/16 >drill bit snapped off and fused in the bolt head. > >Thanks, >Steved. > > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 02:04:48 PM PST US From: "nigel charles" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fw: --> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles" I have a mobile number for him of 07711 523821. This info is at least 4 years old. Otherwise AFE at Oxford might know. Nigel Charles >>-----Original Message----- >>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list- >>server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of martin stevens >>Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 17:13 >>To: europa-list@matronics.com >>Subject: Europa-List: Fw: >> >>--> Europa-List message posted by: "martin stevens" >> >> >> >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: martin stevens >>To: europa-list@matronics.com >> >> >>Does anyone have a contact no for Brian Nelson ex Rd Aviation Regards >>Martin >> >> >> >> ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 04:51:40 PM PST US From: CHUCK RHOADS Subject: Re: Europa-List: FIRST FLIGHT --> Europa-List message posted by: CHUCK RHOADS Jeff, After my first flight of my Europa XS with the Geo engine you had asked for more information. I am sorry for the delay; however, we have been doing more testing and are now working on additional cooling modifications. So far the flight characteristics are in line with a normal Rotex engine. Approximately 100 lbs were added because of this engine combination; however, several options added to the total weight, such as a 65 amp alternator. Chuck Rhoads A100 Trike JEFF ROBERTS wrote: --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS Congratulations Chuck! It was after talking to you in 2002 that I decided to go forward with buying A258. I will be looking forward to hearing your test results. I'll have mine at MQY in a few months to start testing myself. Hopefully we can get together after you enjoy 40 hours alone. Jeff Roberts A258 Just outside of Nashville TN On Mar 29, 2005, at 9:09 PM, CHUCK RHOADS wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: CHUCK RHOADS > > > After working on a kit plane for 6 years I decided that it was time to > do something else, so as of today I now have a real flying airplane. > My Europa XS trike passed the FAA exam last week. My flight instructor > took it up today for the first time for 20 minutes. Everything was > normal and it flies well, Ill add more details as we get more testing > done. > > I am using a GM Geo Metro 1300CC 4 cylinder engine that, with the > tuned exhaust, puts out 97 HP. The motor used a Raven reduction drive > and a Power Fin prop. Many different configurations have been tried > before reaching a satisfactory cooling arrangement. There are > approximately 60 wires going to the computer which controls ignition > and the multiport fuel injection. This arrangement also no longer > needs a choke and is automatically altitude compensated. > > Chuck Rhoads A100 > > N246CR > > > Chuck Rhoads > cfrhoads@yahoo.com > 104 Shuttle Dr. > Georgetown, KY 40324 > (502) 867-7625 > > --------------------------------- > > Chuck Rhoads cfrhoads@yahoo.com 104 Shuttle Dr. Georgetown, KY 40324 (502) 867-7625 ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:23:18 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: FIRST FLIGHT From: Jacques.POINT@total.com 14, 2004) at 24/04/2005 04:21:49, Serialize complete at 24/04/2005 04:21:49, Itemize by SMTP Server on XFRPAR-HE03/GROUP/Corp(Release 6.5.1|January 21, 2004) at 24/04/2005 04:21:49, Serialize by Router on XFRPAR-HE03/GROUP/Corp(Release 6.5.1|January 21, 2004) at 24/04/2005 04:21:50, Serialize complete at 24/04/2005 04:21:50 --> Europa-List message posted by: Jacques.POINT@total.com Hi Chuck, So you have preferred another option than Rotax, so I did in putting a Subaru EJ 22 in front of #148 How did you manage to put your CofG right with that 100 lbs extra weight ? I will closely follow your tests in this forum. Regards Jacques Still interior and painting works to go ! CHUCK RHOADS Sent by: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com 04/24/2005 04:20 AM Please respond to europa-list To: europa-list@matronics.com cc: Subject: Re: Europa-List: FIRST FLIGHT --> Europa-List message posted by: CHUCK RHOADS Jeff, After my first flight of my Europa XS with the Geo engine you had asked for more information. I am sorry for the delay; however, we have been doing more testing and are now working on additional cooling modifications. So far the flight characteristics are in line with a normal Rotex engine. Approximately 100 lbs were added because of this engine combination; however, several options added to the total weight, such as a 65 amp alternator. Chuck Rhoads A100 Trike JEFF ROBERTS wrote: --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS Congratulations Chuck! It was after talking to you in 2002 that I decided to go forward with buying A258. I will be looking forward to hearing your test results. I'll have mine at MQY in a few months to start testing myself. Hopefully we can get together after you enjoy 40 hours alone. Jeff Roberts A258 Just outside of Nashville TN On Mar 29, 2005, at 9:09 PM, CHUCK RHOADS wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: CHUCK RHOADS > > > After working on a kit plane for 6 years I decided that it was time to > do something else, so as of today I now have a real flying airplane. > My Europa XS trike passed the FAA exam last week. My flight instructor > took it up today for the first time for 20 minutes. Everything was > normal and it flies well, Ill add more details as we get more testing > done. > > I am using a GM Geo Metro 1300CC 4 cylinder engine that, with the > tuned exhaust, puts out 97 HP. The motor used a Raven reduction drive > and a Power Fin prop. Many different configurations have been tried > before reaching a satisfactory cooling arrangement. There are > approximately 60 wires going to the computer which controls ignition > and the multiport fuel injection. This arrangement also no longer > needs a choke and is automatically altitude compensated. > > Chuck Rhoads A100 > > N246CR > > > Chuck Rhoads > cfrhoads@yahoo.com > 104 Shuttle Dr. > Georgetown, KY 40324 > (502) 867-7625 > > --------------------------------- > > Chuck Rhoads cfrhoads@yahoo.com 104 Shuttle Dr. Georgetown, KY 40324 (502) 867-7625 ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:22:11 PM PST US From: "David DeFord" Subject: Europa-List: bad cold starts --> Europa-List message posted by: "David DeFord" When it was new, our 912S started as prescribed by Rotax when cold, i.e., full choke with throttle fully closed. Opening the throttle even slightly would kill the engine, whenever the choke was applied. Over time (400 hours), it began to need just a bit of throttle along with the choke, in order to start. Now it runs very roughly on a cold start with full choke, and will die after a few seconds of this (if we can stand it) unless the throttle is opened more than 1/4 inch. It then runs perfectly smoothly, from idle to full throttle, without the choke. Unfortunately, opening the throttle this much causes the shaking to become so violent (momentarily, until it becomes suddenly smooth) that it typically dislodges the muffler from exhaust header pipes. It starts just fine without the choke, once it is warm. Please don't bother to suggest balancing the carburetors, which we have done very precisely (witness the very smooth running without the choke). We have partially disassembled the carburetors and cleaned all of the jets with carb cleaner (though there was no sign of any contamination or blockage). Mag drop on both sides is fine, compression is like new, and we have never experienced any kickback on starting. We have searched in vain for any vacuum leaks, and the float needles seem to be keeping the float bowls filled properly. We feel that we have exhausted all of the reasonable possibilities, and so are open to bizarre and unlikely suggestions as well at this point! Dave DeFord N135TD (monowheel XS, 912S, Airmaster) ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 10:33:43 PM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: bad cold starts --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Dave I'm Not a Rotax Man But there's a thread on this problem in prior messages ....lots of them. Get the engine turning over without the mag. Switches on, then drop one switch followed by the other, can't remember where the choke was to be set though. The other serious factor was to do with the sprag clutch since the rough running on start up may be exercising it beyond it's capability and so need it replacing. Search the Archives there's many messages, I think it is to do with the ignition timing being so advanced it is firing against the starter before top dead centre and so the energy generated from the first charged cylinder is insufficient to get the next one over TDC which re-occurs adinfinitum. However you must read up to get the choke procedure. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa 337 MKI/Jabiru 3300 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of David DeFord Subject: Europa-List: bad cold starts --> Europa-List message posted by: "David DeFord" When it was new, our 912S started as prescribed by Rotax when cold, i.e., full choke with throttle fully closed. Opening the throttle even slightly would kill the engine, whenever the choke was applied. Over time (400 hours), it began to need just a bit of throttle along with the choke, in order to start. Now it runs very roughly on a cold start with full choke, and will die after a few seconds of this (if we can stand it) unless the throttle is opened more than 1/4 inch. It then runs perfectly smoothly, from idle to full throttle, without the choke. Unfortunately, opening the throttle this much causes the shaking to become so violent (momentarily, until it becomes suddenly smooth) that it typically dislodges the muffler from exhaust header pipes. It starts just fine without the choke, once it is warm. Please don't bother to suggest balancing the carburetors, which we have done very precisely (witness the very smooth running without the choke). We have partially disassembled the carburetors and cleaned all of the jets with carb cleaner (though there was no sign of any contamination or blockage). Mag drop on both sides is fine, compression is like new, and we have never experienced any kickback on starting. We have searched in vain for any vacuum leaks, and the float needles seem to be keeping the float bowls filled properly. We feel that we have exhausted all of the reasonable possibilities, and so are open to bizarre and unlikely suggestions as well at this point! Dave DeFord N135TD (monowheel XS, 912S, Airmaster) ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 11:35:25 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: RE: bad cold starts From: "josok" 1.64 REPLY_TO_EMPTY Reply-To: is empty 0.10 TO_EMPTY To: is empty 1.72 MSGID_FROM_MTA_ID Message-Id for external message added locally --> Europa-List message posted by: "josok" Hi Dave, Another reply from a non- (not yet) rotax owner: It sounds like an ignition problem, higher revs = more spark at the plugs, clearing the problem. I guess your mag check is done after the rough running cleared? I might suggest replacing all plugs, checking and replacing all plug cables and caps. The real cause might be difficult to spot just by inspection. But maybe you allready replaced that stuff? Regards, Jos Okhuijsen ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/