Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 02:54 AM - Re: heavy duty starter for 912s (Steven Pitt)
2. 03:59 AM - Re: Mod 70 (Kingsley Hurst)
3. 05:30 AM - Re: Mod 70 (R.C.Harrison)
4. 06:39 AM - Re: Mod 70 (Fred Fillinger)
5. 07:02 AM - Re: Mod 70 (William Daniell)
6. 07:42 AM - Re: Europa-List Digest:26 Msgs - 04/27/05 (Edwardcardinali@aol.com)
7. 09:07 AM - Re: Mod 70 (R.C.Harrison)
8. 09:54 AM - Re: Mod 70 (William Daniell)
9. 11:16 AM - Re: Mod 70 (Fred Fillinger)
10. 12:04 PM - Re: Mod 70 (Jeremy Davey)
11. 12:40 PM - Re: Mod 70 (R.C.Harrison)
12. 01:33 PM - Re: Mod 70 (Houlihan,Tim)
13. 02:22 PM - Re: Mod 70 (Duncan McFadyean)
14. 02:31 PM - Re: Mod 70 and the PFA letter (Brian Davies)
15. 03:08 PM - Re: Mod 70 (Jeremy Davey)
16. 03:12 PM - Re: Mod 70 (Duncan McFadyean)
17. 05:13 PM - Swaging those cables (Jeremy Davey)
18. 07:00 PM - Insolvency documentation (Tim Ward)
19. 10:14 PM - Re: Insolvency documentation (lmorgan822@aol.com)
20. 10:20 PM - Re: Mod 70 and the PFA letter (Graham Pocock)
21. 10:57 PM - Re: Mod 70 (William Mills)
22. 11:47 PM - Re: Insolvency documentation (Kingsley Hurst)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Re: heavy duty starter for 912s |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Steven Pitt" <steven.pitt2@ntlworld.com>
Thanks Nigel
I haven't started my engine yet so am changing the starter on the basis of
the forum's general advise. Getting the smaller starter out turned out to be
a five minute exercise. I hope that the reverse is also true.
Regards
Steve Pitt
----- Original Message -----
From: "nigel charles" <nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: heavy duty starter for 912s
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "nigel charles"
<nigelcharles@tiscali.co.uk>
>
> Hi Steve
>
> Be aware that if you have had any kickbacks it is quite likely that the
> sprag clutch will need replacing as well. This is a difficult job
> needing specialist tools. As a result most of us accept that it needs
> doing professionally. Adrian Lloyd at Shobden is an expert at this and
> can even replace the sprag clutch with the engine installed (XS only).
> This is no easy task and it takes about twice the time than if the
> engine is removed. I decided to remove the engine and take it to him.
> Although my engine had had only a few kickbacks the wear was sufficient
> to warrant changing the sprag clutch - better to spend a bit more at
> this stage rather than regretting it later. Once sprag clutch wear
> starts it develops rapidly.
>
> As an aside it is looking like anyone with a 912S should seriously
> consider the uprated starter even if they have no problems so far. Sub
> idle problems etc are unlikely to be just due to a weak battery
> otherwise we would have had many instances before now.
>
> Regards
>
> Nigel Charles
>
> >>-----Original Message-----
> >>From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-
> >>server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steven Pitt
> >>Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 20:08
> >>To: europa-list@matronics.com
> >>Subject: Europa-List: heavy duty starter for 912s
> >>
> >>--> Europa-List message posted by: "Steven Pitt"
> >><steven.pitt2@ntlworld.com>
> >>
> >>Can anyone please advise on how to remove the standard starter from a
> 912S
> >>on an XS trigear, without removing the engine and replacing with a
> Heavy
> >>Duty?
> >>Thanks
> >>Steve Pitt #403
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
>
>
Message 2
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <hurstkr@growzone.com.au>
> Early classics have the most restrictive number of hours left (5).
>Later classics and XS models have the least restrictive number (25).
> Or if your annual inspection is due. In which case zero hours.
> Who came up with this one; the Factory or the PFA?
So before having to carry out Mod 70 . . . . This means . . . .
An early Classic that has already flown 800 hrs can fly a total of 805 hrs.
A later model Classic or XS model that has already flown 200 hrs can fly a
total of 225 hrs
Any model that has flown a total of say 20 hrs and is due for annual has
already flown its total hours allowable.
Any model that has not yet flown cannot fly at all.
Think I understand this logic, quite simple really ? ? ?
Wait a minute ! what about those aircraft that flew more than their
respective 5 or 25 hrs since the problem was first identified ? Drat, just
when I thought I had it by the bal#@
Has there ever been a directive issued to require the culprit for this mod
to be checked in the meantime ?
KH in Oz
Do not archive
Message 3
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Kingsley
Very well said, Sir.
Perhaps you can also apply your reasoning as to why us chaps with the
means of "turnbuckle" cable tensioners have to delete the cables anyway?
But of course the use of the slides saves everyone else having to
purchase "turnbuckles", so be it but it doesn't mean that slides are a
more professional fix to our solution in the first place.
I just do not want to go back down that empennage ever again thanks, it
bloody hurts at 65 years young.
Regards
Bob Harrison. G-PTAG 500 hours (PLUS) and heavy landings included by
those who shall also be nameless!
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kingsley
Hurst
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst"
<hurstkr@growzone.com.au>
> Early classics have the most restrictive number of hours left (5).
>Later classics and XS models have the least restrictive number (25).
> Or if your annual inspection is due. In which case zero hours.
> Who came up with this one; the Factory or the PFA?
So before having to carry out Mod 70 . . . . This means . . . .
An early Classic that has already flown 800 hrs can fly a total of 805
hrs.
A later model Classic or XS model that has already flown 200 hrs can fly
a
total of 225 hrs
Any model that has flown a total of say 20 hrs and is due for annual has
already flown its total hours allowable.
Any model that has not yet flown cannot fly at all.
Think I understand this logic, quite simple really ? ? ?
Wait a minute ! what about those aircraft that flew more than their
respective 5 or 25 hrs since the problem was first identified ? Drat,
just
when I thought I had it by the bal#@
Has there ever been a directive issued to require the culprit for this
mod
to be checked in the meantime ?
KH in Oz
Do not archive
Message 4
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net>
> "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> ...
> but it doesn't mean that slides are a more
> professional fix to our solution in the first place.
I can agree there, if one will be able to feel the friction.
Especially if one doesn't fly a lot of hours, it seems the
counterweight will be in a permanent, "frictiony" rust condition. I
would have suggested Teflon, rather than phenolic.
Reg,
Fred F.
Message 5
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FILETIME=[64054A70:01C54BFB]
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
For those of us not covered by the PFA and who have a little difficulty and
cost getting stuff from the UK.
As I understand it the Tailplane mass balance arm broke at the lower strut
where it joins by means of the adjustable connector to the TP torque tube.
The issue is not the cables but the strength (or perhaps more accurately the
fatigue resistance) of the mass balance arm in the face of vertical
stresses.
Could this be solved by simply reinforcing the mass balance arm? For
example by welding a sleeve over the lower tube.
I share Fred's concern that continuous friction and sideways play even if
only 8mm can not be a good situation .in an airplane context.
Will
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Fillinger
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net>
> "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> ...
> but it doesn't mean that slides are a more
> professional fix to our solution in the first place.
I can agree there, if one will be able to feel the friction.
Especially if one doesn't fly a lot of hours, it seems the
counterweight will be in a permanent, "frictiony" rust condition. I
would have suggested Teflon, rather than phenolic.
Reg,
Fred F.
Message 6
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| Subject: | Re: Europa-List Digest:26 Msgs - 04/27/05 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Edwardcardinali@aol.com
Dear Sir
Ist there any way that I can receive only the daily europa-list-digest
without receiving all of the individual emails?
Thank you Edward
Message 7
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Will
The Mod 70 only allows 4mm side play.
I understand that the part that broke ( Having been previously under
extraneous circumstances!) was actually the adjuster screw thread,
prompting further calculation of the members themselves. As to whether
it was vertical stress or lateral stress I'm unaware, but the maximum
4mm side play may give the clue! With the cables tensioned correctly
there's no side play.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Daniell
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell"
<wdaniell@etb.net.co>
For those of us not covered by the PFA and who have a little difficulty
and
cost getting stuff from the UK.
As I understand it the Tailplane mass balance arm broke at the lower
strut
where it joins by means of the adjustable connector to the TP torque
tube.
The issue is not the cables but the strength (or perhaps more accurately
the
fatigue resistance) of the mass balance arm in the face of vertical
stresses.
Could this be solved by simply reinforcing the mass balance arm? For
example by welding a sleeve over the lower tube.
I share Fred's concern that continuous friction and sideways play even
if
only 8mm can not be a good situation .in an airplane context.
Will
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred
Fillinger
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net>
> "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> ...
> but it doesn't mean that slides are a more
> professional fix to our solution in the first place.
I can agree there, if one will be able to feel the friction.
Especially if one doesn't fly a lot of hours, it seems the
counterweight will be in a permanent, "frictiony" rust condition. I
would have suggested Teflon, rather than phenolic.
Reg,
Fred F.
Message 8
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FILETIME=[55746C30:01C54C13]
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
Bob,
Adjuster screw - that is interesting. How does the mod overcome this - as I
understand it reading the document - it is the arm which has changed. Have
there been mods to the adjuster screw?
Yes my thoughts exactly with respect to the lateral movement. I would
assume that the new style arm, for practical purpose will be constantly in
contact with one or other of the sides and apart from the lateral play issue
will impart friction to the control system.
Cheers
Will
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R.C.Harrison
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Will
The Mod 70 only allows 4mm side play.
I understand that the part that broke ( Having been previously under
extraneous circumstances!) was actually the adjuster screw thread,
prompting further calculation of the members themselves. As to whether
it was vertical stress or lateral stress I'm unaware, but the maximum
4mm side play may give the clue! With the cables tensioned correctly
there's no side play.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Daniell
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell"
<wdaniell@etb.net.co>
For those of us not covered by the PFA and who have a little difficulty
and
cost getting stuff from the UK.
As I understand it the Tailplane mass balance arm broke at the lower
strut
where it joins by means of the adjustable connector to the TP torque
tube.
The issue is not the cables but the strength (or perhaps more accurately
the
fatigue resistance) of the mass balance arm in the face of vertical
stresses.
Could this be solved by simply reinforcing the mass balance arm? For
example by welding a sleeve over the lower tube.
I share Fred's concern that continuous friction and sideways play even
if
only 8mm can not be a good situation .in an airplane context.
Will
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred
Fillinger
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net>
> "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> ...
> but it doesn't mean that slides are a more
> professional fix to our solution in the first place.
I can agree there, if one will be able to feel the friction.
Especially if one doesn't fly a lot of hours, it seems the
counterweight will be in a permanent, "frictiony" rust condition. I
would have suggested Teflon, rather than phenolic.
Reg,
Fred F.
Message 9
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net>
"R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> ...
> I understand that the part that broke ( Having been previously under
> extraneous circumstances!) was actually the adjuster screw thread,
I think I'm beginning to understand. There is considerable inertia in
the counterweight, and a few good whacks to the tail in occasional
hard landings would put the lower arm components in compression once
too often, stripping threads? The rebound may not help either. I
know this is amateur engineering, but perhaps the trigear doesn't
suffer as badly in ungraceful handling, because the force exerted on
the counterweight will be less abrupt. Hope so.
Reg,
Fred F.
Message 10
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
Will,
Details of all the new bits, what happened to prompt this, why the cables
are being deleted, etc., etc. are in my previous postings...
Regarding lateral movement, you've also got to have pressure against the
surface to get friction - unless youre VERY badly out of balance (in
knife-edge flight?), youre not going to get that!
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative
PFA EC Member
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is
possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation.
Tail done
Standard XS wings with mods underway
CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)
1390 build hours to date
Intended fit:
Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop
Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
Bob,
Adjuster screw - that is interesting. How does the mod overcome this - as I
understand it reading the document - it is the arm which has changed. Have
there been mods to the adjuster screw?
Yes my thoughts exactly with respect to the lateral movement. I would
assume that the new style arm, for practical purpose will be constantly in
contact with one or other of the sides and apart from the lateral play issue
will impart friction to the control system.
Cheers
Will
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R.C.Harrison
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Will
The Mod 70 only allows 4mm side play.
I understand that the part that broke ( Having been previously under
extraneous circumstances!) was actually the adjuster screw thread,
prompting further calculation of the members themselves. As to whether
it was vertical stress or lateral stress I'm unaware, but the maximum
4mm side play may give the clue! With the cables tensioned correctly
there's no side play.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Daniell
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell"
<wdaniell@etb.net.co>
For those of us not covered by the PFA and who have a little difficulty
and
cost getting stuff from the UK.
As I understand it the Tailplane mass balance arm broke at the lower
strut
where it joins by means of the adjustable connector to the TP torque
tube.
The issue is not the cables but the strength (or perhaps more accurately
the
fatigue resistance) of the mass balance arm in the face of vertical
stresses.
Could this be solved by simply reinforcing the mass balance arm? For
example by welding a sleeve over the lower tube.
I share Fred's concern that continuous friction and sideways play even
if
only 8mm can not be a good situation .in an airplane context.
Will
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred
Fillinger
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net>
> "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> ...
> but it doesn't mean that slides are a more
> professional fix to our solution in the first place.
I can agree there, if one will be able to feel the friction.
Especially if one doesn't fly a lot of hours, it seems the
counterweight will be in a permanent, "frictiony" rust condition. I
would have suggested Teflon, rather than phenolic.
Reg,
Fred F.
Message 11
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Will
I understand that the thread insert fitting /adjuster screw is increased
in size since there are now no packing washers in the styrup connector
lugs.
I'd say you have about the "size of things!"
Regards
Bob Harrison.
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Daniell
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell"
<wdaniell@etb.net.co>
Bob,
Adjuster screw - that is interesting. How does the mod overcome this -
as I
understand it reading the document - it is the arm which has changed.
Have
there been mods to the adjuster screw?
Yes my thoughts exactly with respect to the lateral movement. I would
assume that the new style arm, for practical purpose will be constantly
in
contact with one or other of the sides and apart from the lateral play
issue
will impart friction to the control system.
Cheers
Will
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
R.C.Harrison
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison"
<ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Will
The Mod 70 only allows 4mm side play.
I understand that the part that broke ( Having been previously under
extraneous circumstances!) was actually the adjuster screw thread,
prompting further calculation of the members themselves. As to whether
it was vertical stress or lateral stress I'm unaware, but the maximum
4mm side play may give the clue! With the cables tensioned correctly
there's no side play.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Daniell
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell"
<wdaniell@etb.net.co>
For those of us not covered by the PFA and who have a little difficulty
and
cost getting stuff from the UK.
As I understand it the Tailplane mass balance arm broke at the lower
strut
where it joins by means of the adjustable connector to the TP torque
tube.
The issue is not the cables but the strength (or perhaps more accurately
the
fatigue resistance) of the mass balance arm in the face of vertical
stresses.
Could this be solved by simply reinforcing the mass balance arm? For
example by welding a sleeve over the lower tube.
I share Fred's concern that continuous friction and sideways play even
if
only 8mm can not be a good situation .in an airplane context.
Will
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred
Fillinger
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net>
> "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> ...
> but it doesn't mean that slides are a more
> professional fix to our solution in the first place.
I can agree there, if one will be able to feel the friction.
Especially if one doesn't fly a lot of hours, it seems the
counterweight will be in a permanent, "frictiony" rust condition. I
would have suggested Teflon, rather than phenolic.
Reg,
Fred F.
Message 12
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Houlihan,Tim" <tim.houlihan@oce.co.uk>
Will and others
The adopted solution has been flight tested and does not exhibit the things
you worry about I suggest we all get back to worrying about real rather than
imagined problems
I'm worrying about finding a thin agile person willing and able to go down
the back with a spanner (wrench!)
regards,
Tim Houlihan ( one of the early ones!)
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeremy Davey
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
Will,
Details of all the new bits, what happened to prompt this, why the cables
are being deleted, etc., etc. are in my previous postings...
Regarding lateral movement, you've also got to have pressure against the
surface to get friction - unless youre VERY badly out of balance (in
knife-edge flight?), youre not going to get that!
Hope this helps!
Cheers,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative
PFA EC Member
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is
possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation.
Tail done
Standard XS wings with mods underway
CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)
1390 build hours to date
Intended fit:
Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop
Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
Bob,
Adjuster screw - that is interesting. How does the mod overcome this - as I
understand it reading the document - it is the arm which has changed. Have
there been mods to the adjuster screw?
Yes my thoughts exactly with respect to the lateral movement. I would
assume that the new style arm, for practical purpose will be constantly in
contact with one or other of the sides and apart from the lateral play issue
will impart friction to the control system.
Cheers
Will
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R.C.Harrison
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Will
The Mod 70 only allows 4mm side play.
I understand that the part that broke ( Having been previously under
extraneous circumstances!) was actually the adjuster screw thread,
prompting further calculation of the members themselves. As to whether
it was vertical stress or lateral stress I'm unaware, but the maximum
4mm side play may give the clue! With the cables tensioned correctly
there's no side play.
Regards
Bob Harrison G-PTAG
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Daniell
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70
--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell"
<wdaniell@etb.net.co>
For those of us not covered by the PFA and who have a little difficulty
and
cost getting stuff from the UK.
As I understand it the Tailplane mass balance arm broke at the lower
strut
where it joins by means of the adjustable connector to the TP torque
tube.
The issue is not the cables but the strength (or perhaps more accurately
the
fatigue resistance) of the mass balance arm in the face of vertical
stresses.
Could this be solved by simply reinforcing the mass balance arm? For
example by welding a sleeve over the lower tube.
I share Fred's concern that continuous friction and sideways play even
if
only 8mm can not be a good situation .in an airplane context.
Will
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred
Fillinger
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net>
> "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> ...
> but it doesn't mean that slides are a more
> professional fix to our solution in the first place.
I can agree there, if one will be able to feel the friction.
Especially if one doesn't fly a lot of hours, it seems the
counterweight will be in a permanent, "frictiony" rust condition. I
would have suggested Teflon, rather than phenolic.
Reg,
Fred F.
Message 13
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
You forgot to add that, while your grounded (annual inspection due and
waiting for parts), other Europas (unmodified) will be flying overhead!
Duncan McF
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kingsley Hurst" <hurstkr@growzone.com.au>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst"
<hurstkr@growzone.com.au>
>
> > Early classics have the most restrictive number of hours left (5).
> >Later classics and XS models have the least restrictive number (25).
>
> > Or if your annual inspection is due. In which case zero hours.
> > Who came up with this one; the Factory or the PFA?
>
> So before having to carry out Mod 70 . . . . This means . . . .
>
> An early Classic that has already flown 800 hrs can fly a total of 805
hrs.
>
> A later model Classic or XS model that has already flown 200 hrs can fly a
> total of 225 hrs
>
> Any model that has flown a total of say 20 hrs and is due for annual has
> already flown its total hours allowable.
>
> Any model that has not yet flown cannot fly at all.
>
> Think I understand this logic, quite simple really ? ? ?
>
> Wait a minute ! what about those aircraft that flew more than their
> respective 5 or 25 hrs since the problem was first identified ? Drat,
just
> when I thought I had it by the bal#@
>
> Has there ever been a directive issued to require the culprit for this mod
> to be checked in the meantime ?
>
> KH in Oz
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 14
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| Subject: | Re: Mod 70 and the PFA letter |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies" <bdavies@dircon.co.uk>
No info received
Brian Davies kit 454 not flying yet.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy Davey" <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Mod 70 and the PFA letter
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
>
> Just a quick question for UK owners (apologies overseas folks!) =96 have
you
> received a letter from the PFA regarding Mod 70? There is some debate as
to
> whether any builders have received it =96 certainly at least some of the
> fliers have.
>
> Thanks and regards,
> Jeremy
>
> Jeremy Davey
> Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
> Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative
> PFA EC Member
> =93If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it
is
> possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation.=94
> Tail done
> Standard XS wings with mods underway
> CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)
> 1380 build hours to date
> Intended fit:
> Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop
> Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms
>
>
Message 15
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
Fred,
It wasn't stripped threads - the threaded portion sheared in two.
Tim,
I offered and you declined. OK, I'm 6' and 220lbs, but I still contend
you're being fussy! :-)
Cheers,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative
PFA EC Member
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is
possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation.
Tail done
Standard XS wings with mods underway
CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)
1390 build hours to date
Intended fit:
Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop
Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred Fillinger
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net>
"R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> ...
> I understand that the part that broke ( Having been previously under
> extraneous circumstances!) was actually the adjuster screw thread,
I think I'm beginning to understand. There is considerable inertia in
the counterweight, and a few good whacks to the tail in occasional
hard landings would put the lower arm components in compression once
too often, stripping threads? The rebound may not help either. I
know this is amateur engineering, but perhaps the trigear doesn't
suffer as badly in ungraceful handling, because the force exerted on
the counterweight will be less abrupt. Hope so.
Reg,
Fred F.
Message 16
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
The originals were flight tested too! And the design looked more credible.
Duncan McF.
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Houlihan,Tim" <tim.houlihan@oce.co.uk>
Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Houlihan,Tim" <tim.houlihan@oce.co.uk>
>
> Will and others
>
> The adopted solution has been flight tested and does not exhibit the
things
> you worry about I suggest we all get back to worrying about real rather
than
> imagined problems
>
> I'm worrying about finding a thin agile person willing and able to go down
> the back with a spanner (wrench!)
>
> regards,
>
> Tim Houlihan ( one of the early ones!)
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Jeremy Davey
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70
>
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
>
> Will,
>
> Details of all the new bits, what happened to prompt this, why the cables
> are being deleted, etc., etc. are in my previous postings...
>
> Regarding lateral movement, you've also got to have pressure against the
> surface to get friction - unless youre VERY badly out of balance (in
> knife-edge flight?), youre not going to get that!
>
> Hope this helps!
>
> Cheers,
> Jeremy
>
> Jeremy Davey
> Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
> Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative
> PFA EC Member
> If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is
> possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation.
> Tail done
> Standard XS wings with mods underway
> CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)
> 1390 build hours to date
> Intended fit:
> Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop
> Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
Daniell
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
>
> Bob,
>
> Adjuster screw - that is interesting. How does the mod overcome this - as
I
> understand it reading the document - it is the arm which has changed.
Have
> there been mods to the adjuster screw?
>
> Yes my thoughts exactly with respect to the lateral movement. I would
> assume that the new style arm, for practical purpose will be constantly in
> contact with one or other of the sides and apart from the lateral play
issue
> will impart friction to the control system.
> Cheers
> Will
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R.C.Harrison
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
>
> Hi! Will
> The Mod 70 only allows 4mm side play.
> I understand that the part that broke ( Having been previously under
> extraneous circumstances!) was actually the adjuster screw thread,
> prompting further calculation of the members themselves. As to whether
> it was vertical stress or lateral stress I'm unaware, but the maximum
> 4mm side play may give the clue! With the cables tensioned correctly
> there's no side play.
> Regards
> Bob Harrison G-PTAG
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William
> Daniell
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell"
> <wdaniell@etb.net.co>
>
> For those of us not covered by the PFA and who have a little difficulty
> and
> cost getting stuff from the UK.
>
> As I understand it the Tailplane mass balance arm broke at the lower
> strut
> where it joins by means of the adjustable connector to the TP torque
> tube.
>
> The issue is not the cables but the strength (or perhaps more accurately
> the
> fatigue resistance) of the mass balance arm in the face of vertical
> stresses.
>
> Could this be solved by simply reinforcing the mass balance arm? For
> example by welding a sleeve over the lower tube.
>
> I share Fred's concern that continuous friction and sideways play even
> if
> only 8mm can not be a good situation .in an airplane context.
>
> Will
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred
> Fillinger
> To: europa-list@matronics.com
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70
>
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" <n3eu@comcast.net>
>
> > "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk> wrote:
> > ...
> > but it doesn't mean that slides are a more
> > professional fix to our solution in the first place.
>
> I can agree there, if one will be able to feel the friction.
> Especially if one doesn't fly a lot of hours, it seems the
> counterweight will be in a permanent, "frictiony" rust condition. I
> would have suggested Teflon, rather than phenolic.
>
> Reg,
> Fred F.
>
>
Message 17
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| Subject: | Swaging those cables |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
Possibly an apposite question given the current debate on Mod 70=85
I=92m doing the rudder cables on =91ZA. I=92ve not done the TP18 cables because
I
was aware they would likely not be required =96 so this is my first attempt at
fitting the collars and thimbles.
How on earth do you get the cable through those collars? There has to be =91a
trick=92 that I don=92t know!! It=92s proving a nightmare of frayed cable ends
and
rolls of insulating tape.
Regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative
PFA EC Member
=93If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is
possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation.=94
Tail done
Standard XS wings with mods underway
CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)
1390 build hours to date
Intended fit:
Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop
Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms
Message 18
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| Subject: | Insolvency documentation |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tim Ward" <ward.t@xtra.co.nz>
As an aside from Mod 70.
Just received yet more documentation from REDMAN NICHOLS the Licensed Insolvency
Practitioners for the EMIL liquidation.
Thought it might be the MOD 70 letter!!
They owe me 1.30GBP for the builders subscription.
They would have sent me (to New Zealand!!!) well over 20GBP of documentation plus
postage. I know they have to. Funny world we live in!!
Cheers,
Tim
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8005
New Zealand.
Ph +64 3 3515166
Mobile 021 0640221
ward.t@xtra.co.nz
Message 19
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| Subject: | Re: Insolvency documentation |
--> Europa-List message posted by: lmorgan822@aol.com
Tim, not so funny at all. I got the same documentation. No mon, no airplane!
-----Original Message-----
From: Tim Ward <ward.t@xtra.co.nz>
Subject: Europa-List: Insolvency documentation
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Tim Ward" <ward.t@xtra.co.nz>
As an aside from Mod 70.
Just received yet more documentation from REDMAN NICHOLS the Licensed Insolvency
Practitioners for the EMIL liquidation.
Thought it might be the MOD 70 letter!!
They owe me 1.30GBP for the builders subscription.
They would have sent me (to New Zealand!!!) well over 20GBP of documentation
plus postage. I know they have to. Funny world we live in!!
Cheers,
Tim
Tim Ward
12 Waiwetu Street,
Fendalton,
Christchurch, 8005
New Zealand.
Ph +64 3 3515166
Mobile 021 0640221
ward.t@xtra.co.nz
Message 20
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| Subject: | Re: Mod 70 and the PFA letter |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Graham Pocock" <graham@pocock56.fsnet.co.uk>
Letter?
What letter??
Graham Pocock 535 Trig
Message 21
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--> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" <combined.merchants@virgin.net>
Nice one Kingsley. I must have flown more than 200 hours since the problem
was identified! Five hours to go.
Best wishes,
William
Do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Kingsley Hurst" <hurstkr@growzone.com.au>
Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst"
<hurstkr@growzone.com.au>
>
> > Early classics have the most restrictive number of hours left (5).
> >Later classics and XS models have the least restrictive number (25).
>
> > Or if your annual inspection is due. In which case zero hours.
> > Who came up with this one; the Factory or the PFA?
>
> So before having to carry out Mod 70 . . . . This means . . . .
>
> An early Classic that has already flown 800 hrs can fly a total of 805
hrs.
>
> A later model Classic or XS model that has already flown 200 hrs can fly a
> total of 225 hrs
>
> Any model that has flown a total of say 20 hrs and is due for annual has
> already flown its total hours allowable.
>
> Any model that has not yet flown cannot fly at all.
>
> Think I understand this logic, quite simple really ? ? ?
>
> Wait a minute ! what about those aircraft that flew more than their
> respective 5 or 25 hrs since the problem was first identified ? Drat,
just
> when I thought I had it by the bal#@
>
> Has there ever been a directive issued to require the culprit for this mod
> to be checked in the meantime ?
>
> KH in Oz
>
> Do not archive
>
>
Message 22
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| Subject: | Insolvency documentation |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" <hurstkr@growzone.com.au>
They owe me 1.30GBP for the builders subscription.
They would have sent me (to New Zealand!!!) well over 20GBP of
documentation plus postage. I know they have to. Funny world we live
in!!
Cheers,
Tim
Tim Ward
Likewise Tim, and 80 percent of the paper work does nothing other than
explain their very reasonable fees which I note seem to have jumped
astronomically ! I seriously suspect much of their time charged out is
for producing these mountains of paper work too.
Pity all this expense could not have been redirected to those poor
builders/would-be builders who have lost so much as a result of this
debacle but as you say, "funny world we live in!!".
Regs
Kingsley
Do not archive
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