---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 04/29/05:17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:11 AM - Re: Mod 70 (owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com) 2. 01:24 AM - Re: Swaging those cables (M@nsfield) 3. 02:39 AM - Cable Swaging (Peter Field) 4. 03:23 AM - Re: Swaging those cables mk-nntest-1.uk.intranet version=3.0.2 (Jeremy Davey) 5. 03:43 AM - Re: Swaging those cables (Jos Okhuijsen) 6. 04:14 AM - Re: Cable Swaging (Jeremy Davey) 7. 06:21 AM - Re: Swaging those cables (Jeremy Davey) 8. 08:46 AM - Re: Mod 70 and the PFA letter (AlanB) 9. 10:44 AM - Re: Swaging those cables mk-nntest-1.uk.intranet (William Daniell) 10. 12:18 PM - alderney rally cancelled (Rowland Carson) 11. 12:36 PM - Replacing Rotax starter (Terry Seaver (terrys)) 12. 01:16 PM - Re: Swaging those cables (Tim Ward) 13. 04:03 PM - 912-S support ring (N55XS) 14. 05:32 PM - Re: Mod 70 (MICHAEL PARKIN) 15. 06:28 PM - Mikes Fears, Mod 70 (Cliff Shaw) 16. 10:52 PM - Re: Mod 70 (Duncan McFadyean) 17. 10:59 PM - Re: 912-S support ring (Duncan McFadyean) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:54 AM PST US From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70 --> Europa-List message posted by: > > > I'm worrying about finding a thin agile person willing and able to go > down > the back with a spanner (wrench!) > > regards, > > Tim Houlihan ( one of the early ones!) > Tim! - and when you are finished with him - please wrap him up and send him to Denmark in a hurry! We have planned some serious flying for the next months..... Regards Gert Gert Dalgaard Soerensen Stabelvej 9, Haarby DK 8660 Skanderborg Denmark Europa builder No. 151 Europa Classic / Rotax 914 AC reg.: OY-GDS Phone.: +45 8695 0595 E mail: lgds@post6.tele.dk http://home19.inet.tele.dk/dalgaard/oygds.jpeg ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:24:36 AM PST US From: "M@nsfield" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Swaging those cables mk-nntest-1.uk.intranet version=3.0.2 --> Europa-List message posted by: "M@nsfield" Hi Jezza, It's all in the prep (or, as you would write, it=92&* $%s all in the prep) First, cut the tips off the thimbles (makes then sit closer together) - see Ron Wanttaja's Kitplane Construction, the second bible after the builders' manual... Second, wrap the section to be cut with tape - masking is fine, duct is ok but don't go more than 1.5 times round (makes it too thick). Finally (small fanfare) use a sharp chisel (cold or wood, if you're happy to notch the edge) & smack smartly using the stock of your vice as an anvil (you do have a vice, don't you??) If you only use a small amount of thin tape, you may even be lucky enough to get it through the collar still wrapped (about 50% of mine have). BTW, how did you get to hear about the impending TP18 mod before you'd put the cables on? Or were you just dithering when the news broke? HTH Paul XS Mono 383 Top on next >-- Original Message -- >From: "Jeremy Davey" >To: >Subject: Europa-List: Swaging those cables >Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 01:12:18 +0100 >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com > > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > >Possibly an apposite question given the current debate on Mod 70=85 > >I=92m doing the rudder cables on =91ZA. I=92ve not done the TP18 cables because >I >was aware they would likely not be required =96 so this is my first attempt >at >fitting the collars and thimbles. > >How on earth do you get the cable through those collars? There has to be >=91a >trick=92 that I don=92t know!! It=92s proving a nightmare of frayed cable >ends and >rolls of insulating tape. > >Regards, >Jeremy Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005. Cheap flights - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/ Bargain holidays - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/ ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 02:39:21 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Cable Swaging From: "Peter Field" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Field" Jeremy, If you apply some super glue to the cable and then cut it with a minidrill and abrasive disc it will not fray and you will be able to push it through the crimp without any difficulty at all. Avoid the fumes though as they are a trifle noxious! If you don't have a minidrill and abrasive cutter, get one as it is without doubt the most useful tool I have used in building our Europa. Peter Field kit 566 - having hours of fun with door locks. ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 03:23:30 AM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Swaging those cables mk-nntest-1.uk.intranet version=3.0.2 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Hi, Paul, Many thanks for that, mate - much appreciate and printed off to take up the hangar with me. Re: =92&*$%s - I wish I could work out how to stop it - it's obviously a code-page issue between my PC and the Matronics server :-( Re: vice. I have many vices :-) Re: TP18 - I'm VC of the Europa Club, and on the PFA EC, so hard not to hear of it. Obviously both the Club and the PFA have been following developments closely, so I was aware of the fixes being proposed. And as an active builder, I talk to Andy fairly regularly for advice and he shared some thoughts with me too. Nothing sinister :-) Cheers, Jeremy PS Also not far off putting the top on - just need some Redux and my new TP18! Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation. Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1390 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of M@nsfield Subject: RE: Europa-List: Swaging those cables mk-nntest-1.uk.intranet version=3.0.2 --> Europa-List message posted by: "M@nsfield" Hi Jezza, It's all in the prep (or, as you would write, it=92&* $%s all in the prep) First, cut the tips off the thimbles (makes then sit closer together) - see Ron Wanttaja's Kitplane Construction, the second bible after the builders' manual... Second, wrap the section to be cut with tape - masking is fine, duct is ok but don't go more than 1.5 times round (makes it too thick). Finally (small fanfare) use a sharp chisel (cold or wood, if you're happy to notch the edge) & smack smartly using the stock of your vice as an anvil (you do have a vice, don't you??) If you only use a small amount of thin tape, you may even be lucky enough to get it through the collar still wrapped (about 50% of mine have). BTW, how did you get to hear about the impending TP18 mod before you'd put the cables on? Or were you just dithering when the news broke? HTH Paul XS Mono 383 Top on next >-- Original Message -- >From: "Jeremy Davey" >To: >Subject: Europa-List: Swaging those cables >Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 01:12:18 +0100 >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com > > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > >Possibly an apposite question given the current debate on Mod 70=85 > >I=92m doing the rudder cables on =91ZA. I=92ve not done the TP18 cables because >I >was aware they would likely not be required =96 so this is my first attempt >at >fitting the collars and thimbles. > >How on earth do you get the cable through those collars? There has to be >=91a >trick=92 that I don=92t know!! It=92s proving a nightmare of frayed cable >ends and >rolls of insulating tape. > >Regards, >Jeremy Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005. Cheap flights - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/ Bargain holidays - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 03:43:16 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Swaging those cables From: "Jos Okhuijsen" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jos Okhuijsen" Hi Jeremy, Oh, this is an easy one... Diamond cutting wheel in the Dremel, no pressure applied and just let it sink through. This keeps the strands in place. I used this paper paint edge tape, or nothing, because taking it off might disturbe the strands. Put a bit of heatshrink on first , and after the swaging use this to make nice, finger sparing ends. Regards Jos Okhuijsen Jeremy Davey kirjoitti Fri, 29 Apr 2005 01:12:18 +0100: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > > Possibly an apposite question given the current debate on Mod 70=85 > > I=92m doing the rudder cables on =91ZA. I=92ve not done the TP18 cables > because I > was aware they would likely not be required =96 so this is my first > attempt at > fitting the collars and thimbles. > > How on earth do you get the cable through those collars? There has to be > =91a > trick=92 that I don=92t know!! It=92s proving a nightmare of frayed > cable ends and > rolls of insulating tape. > > Regards, > Jeremy > > Jeremy Davey > Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA > Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative > PFA EC Member > =93If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then > it is > possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation.=94 > Tail done > Standard XS wings with mods underway > CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) > 1390 build hours to date > Intended fit: > Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop > Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms > > -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 04:14:22 AM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Cable Swaging --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Peter, Nice trick! Many thanks :-) Cheers, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation. Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1390 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Field Subject: Europa-List: Cable Swaging --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Field" Jeremy, If you apply some super glue to the cable and then cut it with a minidrill and abrasive disc it will not fray and you will be able to push it through the crimp without any difficulty at all. Avoid the fumes though as they are a trifle noxious! If you don't have a minidrill and abrasive cutter, get one as it is without doubt the most useful tool I have used in building our Europa. Peter Field kit 566 - having hours of fun with door locks. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 06:21:14 AM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Swaging those cables --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" :-) Thanks, Jos - I've had the Dremel suggested, but the heat shrink - that's a new one and a very good suggestion! :-) Cheers, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation. Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1390 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jos Okhuijsen Subject: Re: Europa-List: Swaging those cables --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jos Okhuijsen" Hi Jeremy, Oh, this is an easy one... Diamond cutting wheel in the Dremel, no pressure applied and just let it sink through. This keeps the strands in place. I used this paper paint edge tape, or nothing, because taking it off might disturbe the strands. Put a bit of heatshrink on first , and after the swaging use this to make nice, finger sparing ends. Regards Jos Okhuijsen Jeremy Davey kirjoitti Fri, 29 Apr 2005 01:12:18 +0100: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > > Possibly an apposite question given the current debate on Mod 70=85 > > I=92m doing the rudder cables on =91ZA. I=92ve not done the TP18 cables > because I > was aware they would likely not be required =96 so this is my first > attempt at > fitting the collars and thimbles. > > How on earth do you get the cable through those collars? There has to be > =91a > trick=92 that I don=92t know!! It=92s proving a nightmare of frayed > cable ends and > rolls of insulating tape. > > Regards, > Jeremy > > Jeremy Davey > Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA > Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative > PFA EC Member > =93If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then > it is > possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation.=94 > Tail done > Standard XS wings with mods underway > CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) > 1390 build hours to date > Intended fit: > Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop > Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms > > -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 08:46:03 AM PST US From: "AlanB" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70 and the PFA letter --> Europa-List message posted by: "AlanB" Putting electrics in the back before attaching the top which I'd like to do soon. AlanB #0303 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70 and the PFA letter > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > > You building or flying, Alan? > > From all the replies on here it looks like the fliers have all got it and > the builders all haven't. I'm on the case with PFA Engineering - thanks to > all who replied for their help validating what has happened vs. what > should > have happened. > > Those wanting to know more about the mod in the meantime can check out the > mod documentation that SteveD's posted on the EuropaOwners site at > http://www.europaowners.org/dlman.php?func=file_info&file_id=113. The same > information will be going on the Factory site as soon as Roger has sorted > his publishing issue. > > Regards, > Jeremy > > Jeremy Davey > Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA > Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative > PFA EC Member > "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it > is > possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation." > Tail done > Standard XS wings with mods underway > CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) > 1380 build hours to date > Intended fit: > Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop > Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of AlanB > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70 and the PFA letter > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "AlanB" > > Not received mine as of 26th April 2005 > > Alan > #0303 > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeremy Davey" > To: > Subject: Europa-List: Mod 70 and the PFA letter > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" >> >> Just a quick question for UK owners (apologies overseas folks!) =96 have >> you >> received a letter from the PFA regarding Mod 70? There is some debate as >> to >> whether any builders have received it =96 certainly at least some of the >> fliers have. >> >> Thanks and regards, >> Jeremy >> >> Jeremy Davey >> Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA >> Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative >> PFA EC Member >> =93If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then >> it > >> is >> possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation.=94 >> Tail done >> Standard XS wings with mods underway >> CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) >> 1380 build hours to date >> Intended fit: >> Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop >> Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 10:44:53 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" version=3.0.2 Subject: RE: Europa-List: Swaging those cables mk-nntest-1.uk.intranet version=3.0.2 FILETIME=[778CF1E0:01C54CE3] --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" Yup - it took me 3 goes on both before I was happy with it and now I have to cut them off - Will -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of M@nsfield Subject: RE: Europa-List: Swaging those cables mk-nntest-1.uk.intranet version=3.0.2 --> Europa-List message posted by: "M@nsfield" Hi Jezza, It's all in the prep (or, as you would write, it=92&* $%s all in the prep) First, cut the tips off the thimbles (makes then sit closer together) - see Ron Wanttaja's Kitplane Construction, the second bible after the builders' manual... Second, wrap the section to be cut with tape - masking is fine, duct is ok but don't go more than 1.5 times round (makes it too thick). Finally (small fanfare) use a sharp chisel (cold or wood, if you're happy to notch the edge) & smack smartly using the stock of your vice as an anvil (you do have a vice, don't you??) If you only use a small amount of thin tape, you may even be lucky enough to get it through the collar still wrapped (about 50% of mine have). BTW, how did you get to hear about the impending TP18 mod before you'd put the cables on? Or were you just dithering when the news broke? HTH Paul XS Mono 383 Top on next >-- Original Message -- >From: "Jeremy Davey" >To: >Subject: Europa-List: Swaging those cables >Date: Fri, 29 Apr 2005 01:12:18 +0100 >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com > > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > >Possibly an apposite question given the current debate on Mod 70=85 > >I=92m doing the rudder cables on =91ZA. I=92ve not done the TP18 cables because >I >was aware they would likely not be required =96 so this is my first attempt >at >fitting the collars and thimbles. > >How on earth do you get the cable through those collars? There has to be >=91a >trick=92 that I don=92t know!! It=92s proving a nightmare of frayed cable >ends and >rolls of insulating tape. > >Regards, >Jeremy Book yourself something to look forward to in 2005. Cheap flights - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/flights/ Bargain holidays - http://www.tiscali.co.uk/travel/holidays/ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:18:08 PM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: Europa-List: alderney rally cancelled --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson i've just received notice from the organisers that the Alderney Rally, due to take place on 10th to 12th June 2005, has been cancelled because of problems with the supply of aviation fuel on Alderney. For the time being, anyone planning to visit Alderney should not rely upon fuel being available there. Temporary arrangments are in place to allow refuelling at Guernsey without incurring an additional landing fee. regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary - email for info! | Europa 435 G-ROWI (750 hours building) PFA #16532 | e-mail website ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 12:36:05 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Replacing Rotax starter From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" Inquiring minds would like to know: Can the Rotax 912S starter on an XS mono-wheel be replaced with the Heavy Duty one without removing the engine? regards, Terry Seaver A135 / N135TD ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:16:51 PM PST US From: "Tim Ward" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Swaging those cables --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tim Ward" Jeremy, Wrap some insulating tape around the cable tightly and then use a sharp pair of cutting pliers and cut it half way along the tape. Cheers, Tim Tim Ward 12 Waiwetu Street, Fendalton, Christchurch, 8005 New Zealand. Ph +64 3 3515166 Mobile 021 0640221 ward.t@xtra.co.nz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Swaging those cables > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > > :-) Thanks, Jos - I've had the Dremel suggested, but the heat shrink - > that's a new one and a very good suggestion! :-) > > Cheers, > Jeremy > > Jeremy Davey > Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA > Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative > PFA EC Member > If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is > possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation. > Tail done > Standard XS wings with mods underway > CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) > 1390 build hours to date > Intended fit: > Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop > Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jos Okhuijsen > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Swaging those cables > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jos Okhuijsen" > > Hi Jeremy, > > Oh, this is an easy one... Diamond cutting wheel in the Dremel, no > pressure applied and just let it sink through. This keeps the strands in > place. > I used this paper paint edge tape, or nothing, because taking it off might > disturbe the strands. Put a bit of heatshrink on first , and after the > swaging use this to make nice, finger sparing ends. > > Regards > > Jos Okhuijsen > > Jeremy Davey kirjoitti Fri, 29 Apr 2005 01:12:18 > +0100: > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" >> >> Possibly an apposite question given the current debate on Mod 70=85 >> >> I=92m doing the rudder cables on =91ZA. I=92ve not done the TP18 cables >> because I >> was aware they would likely not be required =96 so this is my first >> attempt at >> fitting the collars and thimbles. >> >> How on earth do you get the cable through those collars? There has to be >> =91a >> trick=92 that I don=92t know!! It=92s proving a nightmare of frayed >> cable ends and >> rolls of insulating tape. >> >> Regards, >> Jeremy >> >> Jeremy Davey >> Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA >> Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative >> PFA EC Member >> =93If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then >> it is >> possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation.=94 >> Tail done >> Standard XS wings with mods underway >> CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) >> 1390 build hours to date >> Intended fit: >> Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop >> Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms >> >> > > > -- > Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:03:30 PM PST US From: N55XS Subject: Europa-List: 912-S support ring --> Europa-List message posted by: N55XS Guys, My 912-S arrived today, along with the mount ring. I got the ring bolted up, without too much trouble, however there is a problem with the alignment of the water pump outlet tubes on the port side. They are pointing directly at the supports, preventing me from hooking up the hoses, on that side. It looks as if the tubes are pressed into the water pump housing. Anyone have any idea on how to twist/realign the tubes so that the rubber hoses will connect? Thanks in advance... -- Jeff - A055 Only the engine stuff left to do... -- ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:32:54 PM PST US From: "MICHAEL PARKIN" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70 --> Europa-List message posted by: "MICHAEL PARKIN" Jeremy, I have been away on business and so have not been around to join the discussion about MOD 70 but I have to say I am very unhappy about the Mod and its possible implications. I appreciate that being a non current engineer makes my opinion of little value to Europa 2004 or Francis Donaldson, but that never stopped me before. Firstly, the installation of the cables on the Mass Balance arm during the build struck me as very much hit or miss procedure at best. Page 20-2 of the builders manual- quote- " Make the cable as tight as possible before swaging the sleeve. This operation is almost certainly a two person job, holding the cable and swaging tool at the same time." When I came to that, it seemed to me that obtaining a reasonable cable tension and getting the the mass balance arm normal to the tailplane torque tube was almost mutually exclusive. It was for that reason that I installed a turnbuckle in each cable - this enabled precise measurement of the mass balance arm and allowed for a predictable tension to be set. I don't know how many builders adopted the same approach, but I know I am not alone with this idea. The requirement for a stronger mass balance arm was decided following the failure of one classic that had suffered ' a number of landing incidents'. OK, I can accept that without a problem. Last monday I drove up to Kirbymoorside to speak to Andy about the Mod and my misgivings about it. Andy has done a lot of testing on the setup and he showed me the new balance arm. It is made of thicker wall tubing and has a considerably more substantial adjuster assembly replacing the original TP18A adjuster. Andy also conducted some load tests on the original arm (in the vertical plane) he found that the test arm initialy twisted and then the lower tube buckled - he showed me the failed item. I am not sure whether the arm was installed in the aircraft, with cables attached, or whether it was just a straightforward bench test - if it was a bench test I doubt whether any cables were installed - perhaps if cables had been attached the inital twist prior to failure might have been delayed. However, the new arm is much stronger and should do the job nicely - but there are no cable attachment lugs. I asked Andy why he had discarded the cables? His reason was purely to make the installation easier for owners. I explained my turnbuckle arrangement. to which he replied that it was not a problem and Europa could easily put the cable attachment lugs on the new arm. Remember that the identified weakness is in the vertical plane of the mass balance arm not in the cable system. I asked if he would contact Francis Donaldson, but he said that he would be happy for me to do it - as the new arm would be fitted with the existing, proven engineering - it should require no flight testing. As it happens my aircraft is in the workshop for its' permit renewal so I removed the D panel and the fuselage access panels and had a good look around. The fitting of the turnbuckles to install the new balance arm would actually be quite easy. After carefully measuring and marking the cables so that the end of the turnbuckle can be fitted in the correct place, the cables can be cut as far forward as possible, that is just short of the cable lugs. Now if the fuselage access panel, on the right side by the tail is in the standard position, the cut end of the cables can be brought outside the fuselage and the turnbuckle end swaged in comfort. The other end of the turnbuckle can be fitted to the attachment lug on the arm using a standard fork fitting, cotter pin and split pin. The new arm is then installed onto the torque tube and with minimal time in the rear fuselage, the barrels of the turnbuckle are fitted, the arm is adjusted to the centre of the pushrod containment assembly, the tension set on the cables and finally locking wires fitted to the turnbuckles. It may be necessary to drill a little out of the mass balance weights to reset the balance. Now the point is that if some europas, because arranging the mass balance arm normal to the torque shaft is not a given, and the containment assemble was built around the already installed mass balance arm. It is quite likely that the resting place of the new uncabled arm is not going to be in the same place. This means that the pitch tube containment attachment brackets will have to be moved, and quite likely the fit of the ply around the pitch tube itself may need adjusting. How much time will be required down the black hole to do that!!! Using the existing cables would avoid all those problems. I asked Andy why he hadn't considered using turnbuckles, his comment - - "Well people might not have any turnbuckles." What worries me is that this big lump of steel is going to be free to move left and right at will, perhaps hundreds of times in an hour in opposition to the slightest yaw of the aircraft. How much could it move? I noted that a value of 4mm was mentioned on this forum. In fact, Para 5 of step 3 of the modification leaflet states - "The diameter of the mass balance weights is 50mm, and the nominal clearance is 2mm each side - check that the clearance achieved is between 1mm and 4mm each side". I interpret that to mean that the lateral movement of the arm could be 8 mm. Such a movement does not take into account the flexing of the plywood of the pitch containment assembly - not the sturdiest of structures. In real terms this new arrangement could have these not insignificant balance weights 'clonking' left and right by maybe 12mm. Is this movement likely to cause any fatigue problems at the attachment points on the torque shaft - perhaps one of the forum metallurgists could advise. I discussed this movement with Andy and he said that the weight moves even with the cables. If they are fitted in the manner described in the build manual I can see that there might be some movement. With properly tensioned cables, there is negligible movement. Actually, it is not outside the realms of possibility that a fracture of the original TP18A could be accellerated because of lateral movement caused by slack cables. The bottom line is that, the history of why the cables were originally fitted to the mass balance arm is irrelevant. Many Europas have done may thousands of hours flying with he current mass balance arm configuration without a problem. Now following the fracture of one TP18A on an aircraft that has suffered 1 or more landing incidents we are all to fit stronger mass balance arms. Changing the arm is the right thing to do. But I totally disagree that discarding the cables is the right thing to do. It is one aircraft modified and tested at the factory for a few hours against the experience of the whole fleet. I understand from Bob Harrison that since I spoke to Andy Draper he has been told by his boss that he cannot put the lugs on the new arms as he promised me. It seems that the only way we can incorporate this modified component is the way Europa 2004 say, because that is what they have worked out and tested. I smell commercial pressure here. I fear we are in danger of throwing the baby out with the bath water!!!! I have sent this email to the forum in the hope that someone can allay my fears about MOD 70 - perhaps it might generate some positive comment. regards, Mike Parkin (G-JULZ - hiding in the corner of the workshop with cables a quivering.) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70 > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > > Fred, > > It wasn't stripped threads - the threaded portion sheared in two. > > Tim, > > I offered and you declined. OK, I'm 6' and 220lbs, but I still contend > you're being fussy! :-) > > Cheers, > Jeremy > > Jeremy Davey > Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA > Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative > PFA EC Member > If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is > possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation. > Tail done > Standard XS wings with mods underway > CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) > 1390 build hours to date > Intended fit: > Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop > Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred > Fillinger > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70 > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" > > "R.C.Harrison" wrote: >> ... >> I understand that the part that broke ( Having been previously under >> extraneous circumstances!) was actually the adjuster screw thread, > > I think I'm beginning to understand. There is considerable inertia in > the counterweight, and a few good whacks to the tail in occasional > hard landings would put the lower arm components in compression once > too often, stripping threads? The rebound may not help either. I > know this is amateur engineering, but perhaps the trigear doesn't > suffer as badly in ungraceful handling, because the force exerted on > the counterweight will be less abrupt. Hope so. > > Reg, > Fred F. > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 06:28:51 PM PST US From: "Cliff Shaw" Subject: Europa-List: Mikes Fears, Mod 70 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" All and Mike Your fears are shared in my hanger as well. In that I am in the USA, I will take my new stronger mass balance arm to my trusty welder and have a cable attachment flange put on it. As you so wisely concluded, the cable installation was not designed well. The idea is fine, but if a builder can not do it well, it is a bad design. I installed the turnbuckles and feel that fixed the design problem. (another example is the fuel sight tube that runs under the floor mat and up and over the top of the cockpit.) Here in the USA we don't built it that way either. Just my thought. Remember "I am an amateur" Cliff Shaw 1041 Euclid ave. Edmonds, WA 98020 425 776 5555 http://www.europaowners.org/WileE ----- Original Message ----- From: "MICHAEL PARKIN" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70 > --> Europa-List message posted by: "MICHAEL PARKIN" > > > Jeremy, > > I have been away on business and so have not been around to join the > discussion about MOD 70 but I have to say I am very unhappy about the Mod > and its possible implications. I appreciate that being a non current > engineer makes my opinion of little value to Europa 2004 or Francis > Donaldson, but that never stopped me before. > > Firstly, the installation of the cables on the Mass Balance arm during the > build struck me as very much hit or miss procedure at best. Page 20-2 of > the > builders manual- quote- " Make the cable as tight as possible before > swaging > the sleeve. This operation is almost certainly a two person job, holding > the > cable and swaging tool at the same time." When I came to that, it seemed > to > me that obtaining a reasonable cable tension and getting the the mass > balance arm normal to the tailplane torque tube was almost mutually > exclusive. It was for that reason that I installed a turnbuckle in each > cable - this enabled precise measurement of the mass balance arm and > allowed for a predictable tension to be set. I don't know how many > builders > adopted the same approach, but I know I am not alone with this idea. > > The requirement for a stronger mass balance arm was decided following the > failure of one classic that had suffered ' a number of landing incidents'. > OK, I can accept that without a problem. > > Last monday I drove up to Kirbymoorside to speak to Andy about the Mod and > my misgivings about it. Andy has done a lot of testing on the setup and > he > showed me the new balance arm. It is made of thicker wall tubing and has > a > considerably more substantial adjuster assembly replacing the original > TP18A > adjuster. Andy also conducted some load tests on the original arm (in the > vertical plane) he found that the test arm initialy twisted and then the > lower tube buckled - he showed me the failed item. I am not sure whether > the arm was installed in the aircraft, with cables attached, or whether it > was just a straightforward bench test - if it was a bench test I doubt > whether any cables were installed - perhaps if cables had been attached > the > inital twist prior to failure might have been delayed. However, the new > arm > is much stronger and should do the job nicely - but there are no cable > attachment lugs. > > I asked Andy why he had discarded the cables? His reason was purely to > make > the installation easier for owners. I explained my turnbuckle > arrangement. > to which he replied that it was not a problem and Europa could easily put > the cable attachment lugs on the new arm. Remember that the identified > weakness is in the vertical plane of the mass balance arm not in the cable > system. I asked if he would contact Francis Donaldson, but he said that > he > would be happy for me to do it - as the new arm would be fitted with the > existing, proven engineering - it should require no flight testing. As it > happens my aircraft is in the workshop for its' permit renewal so I > removed > the D panel and the fuselage access panels and had a good look around. > The > fitting of the turnbuckles to install the new balance arm would actually > be > quite easy. After carefully measuring and marking the cables so that the > end of the turnbuckle can be fitted in the correct place, the cables can > be > cut as far forward as possible, that is just short of the cable lugs. Now > if the fuselage access panel, on the right side by the tail is in the > standard position, the cut end of the cables can be brought outside the > fuselage and the turnbuckle end swaged in comfort. The other end of the > turnbuckle can be fitted to the attachment lug on the arm using a standard > fork fitting, cotter pin and split pin. The new arm is then installed > onto > the torque tube and with minimal time in the rear fuselage, the barrels of > the turnbuckle are fitted, the arm is adjusted to the centre of the > pushrod > containment assembly, the tension set on the cables and finally locking > wires fitted to the turnbuckles. It may be necessary to drill a little > out > of the mass balance weights to reset the balance. > Now the point is that if some europas, because arranging the mass balance > arm normal to the torque shaft is not a given, and the containment > assemble > was built around the already installed mass balance arm. It is quite > likely > that the resting place of the new uncabled arm is not going to be in the > same place. This means that the pitch tube containment attachment > brackets > will have to be moved, and quite likely the fit of the ply around the > pitch > tube itself may need adjusting. How much time will be required down the > black hole to do that!!! Using the existing cables would avoid all those > problems. I asked Andy why he hadn't considered using turnbuckles, his > comment - - "Well people might not have any turnbuckles." > > What worries me is that this big lump of steel is going to be free to move > left and right at will, perhaps hundreds of times in an hour in opposition > to the slightest yaw of the aircraft. How much could it move? I noted > that > a value of 4mm was mentioned on this forum. In fact, Para 5 of step 3 of > the modification leaflet states - "The diameter of the mass balance > weights > is 50mm, and the nominal clearance is 2mm each side - check that the > clearance achieved is between 1mm and 4mm each side". I interpret that to > mean that the lateral movement of the arm could be 8 mm. Such a movement > does not take into account the flexing of the plywood of the pitch > containment assembly - not the sturdiest of structures. In real terms > this > new arrangement could have these not insignificant balance weights > 'clonking' left and right by maybe 12mm. Is this movement likely to cause > any fatigue problems at the attachment points on the torque shaft - > perhaps > one of the forum metallurgists could advise. > > I discussed this movement with Andy and he said that the weight moves even > with the cables. If they are fitted in the manner described in the build > manual I can see that there might be some movement. With properly > tensioned > cables, there is negligible movement. > > Actually, it is not outside the realms of possibility that a fracture of > the original TP18A could be accellerated because of lateral movement > caused > by slack cables. > > The bottom line is that, the history of why the cables were originally > fitted to the mass balance arm is irrelevant. Many Europas have done may > thousands of hours flying with he current mass balance arm configuration > without a problem. Now following the fracture of one TP18A on an aircraft > that has suffered 1 or more landing incidents we are all to fit stronger > mass balance arms. Changing the arm is the right thing to do. But I > totally disagree that discarding the cables is the right thing to do. It > is > one aircraft modified and tested at the factory for a few hours against > the > experience of the whole fleet. > > I understand from Bob Harrison that since I spoke to Andy Draper he has > been > told by his boss that he cannot put the lugs on the new arms as he > promised > me. It seems that the only way we can incorporate this modified component > is the way Europa 2004 say, because that is what they have worked out and > tested. I smell commercial pressure here. > > I fear we are in danger of throwing the baby out with the bath water!!!! > > I have sent this email to the forum in the hope that someone can allay my > fears about MOD 70 - perhaps it might generate some positive comment. > > > regards, > > Mike Parkin (G-JULZ - hiding in the corner of the workshop with cables a > quivering.) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeremy Davey" > To: > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70 > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" >> >> Fred, >> >> It wasn't stripped threads - the threaded portion sheared in two. >> >> Tim, >> >> I offered and you declined. OK, I'm 6' and 220lbs, but I still contend >> you're being fussy! :-) >> >> Cheers, >> Jeremy >> >> Jeremy Davey >> Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA >> Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative >> PFA EC Member >> If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it >> is >> possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation. >> Tail done >> Standard XS wings with mods underway >> CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) >> 1390 build hours to date >> Intended fit: >> Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop >> Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred >> Fillinger >> To: europa-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70 >> >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" >> >> "R.C.Harrison" wrote: >>> ... >>> I understand that the part that broke ( Having been previously under >>> extraneous circumstances!) was actually the adjuster screw thread, >> >> I think I'm beginning to understand. There is considerable inertia in >> the counterweight, and a few good whacks to the tail in occasional >> hard landings would put the lower arm components in compression once >> too often, stripping threads? The rebound may not help either. I >> know this is amateur engineering, but perhaps the trigear doesn't >> suffer as badly in ungraceful handling, because the force exerted on >> the counterweight will be less abrupt. Hope so. >> >> Reg, >> Fred F. >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:52:20 PM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70 --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <> That's the sort of comment that worries me. Because in that situation the lateral stresses at the attachment point of the counterbalance arm completely different (i.e. compressive and not bending, and not constantly reversing). I accept that there is a small bending component, but as the counterbalance weight is forward of the cable attachment points, much of the bending is cancelled out. Not so much commercial pressure I smell, as engineering arrogance. Its also TP09 that I fear for and the constantly reversing loads being fed into an area that is probably hardened from the heat haze of the weld. No doubt these issues have been considered and be very happy to see the calculations. Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "MICHAEL PARKIN" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70 > --> Europa-List message posted by: "MICHAEL PARKIN" > > Jeremy, > > I have been away on business and so have not been around to join the > discussion about MOD 70 but I have to say I am very unhappy about the Mod > and its possible implications. I appreciate that being a non current > engineer makes my opinion of little value to Europa 2004 or Francis > Donaldson, but that never stopped me before. > > Firstly, the installation of the cables on the Mass Balance arm during the > build struck me as very much hit or miss procedure at best. Page 20-2 of the > builders manual- quote- " Make the cable as tight as possible before swaging > the sleeve. This operation is almost certainly a two person job, holding the > cable and swaging tool at the same time." When I came to that, it seemed to > me that obtaining a reasonable cable tension and getting the the mass > balance arm normal to the tailplane torque tube was almost mutually > exclusive. It was for that reason that I installed a turnbuckle in each > cable - this enabled precise measurement of the mass balance arm and > allowed for a predictable tension to be set. I don't know how many builders > adopted the same approach, but I know I am not alone with this idea. > > The requirement for a stronger mass balance arm was decided following the > failure of one classic that had suffered ' a number of landing incidents'. > OK, I can accept that without a problem. > > Last monday I drove up to Kirbymoorside to speak to Andy about the Mod and > my misgivings about it. Andy has done a lot of testing on the setup and he > showed me the new balance arm. It is made of thicker wall tubing and has a > considerably more substantial adjuster assembly replacing the original TP18A > adjuster. Andy also conducted some load tests on the original arm (in the > vertical plane) he found that the test arm initialy twisted and then the > lower tube buckled - he showed me the failed item. I am not sure whether > the arm was installed in the aircraft, with cables attached, or whether it > was just a straightforward bench test - if it was a bench test I doubt > whether any cables were installed - perhaps if cables had been attached the > inital twist prior to failure might have been delayed. However, the new arm > is much stronger and should do the job nicely - but there are no cable > attachment lugs. > > I asked Andy why he had discarded the cables? His reason was purely to make > the installation easier for owners. I explained my turnbuckle arrangement. > to which he replied that it was not a problem and Europa could easily put > the cable attachment lugs on the new arm. Remember that the identified > weakness is in the vertical plane of the mass balance arm not in the cable > system. I asked if he would contact Francis Donaldson, but he said that he > would be happy for me to do it - as the new arm would be fitted with the > existing, proven engineering - it should require no flight testing. As it > happens my aircraft is in the workshop for its' permit renewal so I removed > the D panel and the fuselage access panels and had a good look around. The > fitting of the turnbuckles to install the new balance arm would actually be > quite easy. After carefully measuring and marking the cables so that the > end of the turnbuckle can be fitted in the correct place, the cables can be > cut as far forward as possible, that is just short of the cable lugs. Now > if the fuselage access panel, on the right side by the tail is in the > standard position, the cut end of the cables can be brought outside the > fuselage and the turnbuckle end swaged in comfort. The other end of the > turnbuckle can be fitted to the attachment lug on the arm using a standard > fork fitting, cotter pin and split pin. The new arm is then installed onto > the torque tube and with minimal time in the rear fuselage, the barrels of > the turnbuckle are fitted, the arm is adjusted to the centre of the pushrod > containment assembly, the tension set on the cables and finally locking > wires fitted to the turnbuckles. It may be necessary to drill a little out > of the mass balance weights to reset the balance. > Now the point is that if some europas, because arranging the mass balance > arm normal to the torque shaft is not a given, and the containment assemble > was built around the already installed mass balance arm. It is quite likely > that the resting place of the new uncabled arm is not going to be in the > same place. This means that the pitch tube containment attachment brackets > will have to be moved, and quite likely the fit of the ply around the pitch > tube itself may need adjusting. How much time will be required down the > black hole to do that!!! Using the existing cables would avoid all those > problems. I asked Andy why he hadn't considered using turnbuckles, his > comment - - "Well people might not have any turnbuckles." > > What worries me is that this big lump of steel is going to be free to move > left and right at will, perhaps hundreds of times in an hour in opposition > to the slightest yaw of the aircraft. How much could it move? I noted that > a value of 4mm was mentioned on this forum. In fact, Para 5 of step 3 of > the modification leaflet states - "The diameter of the mass balance weights > is 50mm, and the nominal clearance is 2mm each side - check that the > clearance achieved is between 1mm and 4mm each side". I interpret that to > mean that the lateral movement of the arm could be 8 mm. Such a movement > does not take into account the flexing of the plywood of the pitch > containment assembly - not the sturdiest of structures. In real terms this > new arrangement could have these not insignificant balance weights > 'clonking' left and right by maybe 12mm. Is this movement likely to cause > any fatigue problems at the attachment points on the torque shaft - perhaps > one of the forum metallurgists could advise. > > I discussed this movement with Andy and he said that the weight moves even > with the cables. If they are fitted in the manner described in the build > manual I can see that there might be some movement. With properly tensioned > cables, there is negligible movement. > > Actually, it is not outside the realms of possibility that a fracture of > the original TP18A could be accellerated because of lateral movement caused > by slack cables. > > The bottom line is that, the history of why the cables were originally > fitted to the mass balance arm is irrelevant. Many Europas have done may > thousands of hours flying with he current mass balance arm configuration > without a problem. Now following the fracture of one TP18A on an aircraft > that has suffered 1 or more landing incidents we are all to fit stronger > mass balance arms. Changing the arm is the right thing to do. But I > totally disagree that discarding the cables is the right thing to do. It is > one aircraft modified and tested at the factory for a few hours against the > experience of the whole fleet. > > I understand from Bob Harrison that since I spoke to Andy Draper he has been > told by his boss that he cannot put the lugs on the new arms as he promised > me. It seems that the only way we can incorporate this modified component > is the way Europa 2004 say, because that is what they have worked out and > tested. I smell commercial pressure here. > > I fear we are in danger of throwing the baby out with the bath water!!!! > > I have sent this email to the forum in the hope that someone can allay my > fears about MOD 70 - perhaps it might generate some positive comment. > > > regards, > > Mike Parkin (G-JULZ - hiding in the corner of the workshop with cables a > quivering.) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeremy Davey" > To: > Subject: RE: Europa-List: Mod 70 > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > > > > Fred, > > > > It wasn't stripped threads - the threaded portion sheared in two. > > > > Tim, > > > > I offered and you declined. OK, I'm 6' and 220lbs, but I still contend > > you're being fussy! :-) > > > > Cheers, > > Jeremy > > > > Jeremy Davey > > Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA > > Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative > > PFA EC Member > > If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is > > possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation. > > Tail done > > Standard XS wings with mods underway > > CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) > > 1390 build hours to date > > Intended fit: > > Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop > > Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Fred > > Fillinger > > To: europa-list@matronics.com > > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mod 70 > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" > > > > "R.C.Harrison" wrote: > >> ... > >> I understand that the part that broke ( Having been previously under > >> extraneous circumstances!) was actually the adjuster screw thread, > > > > I think I'm beginning to understand. There is considerable inertia in > > the counterweight, and a few good whacks to the tail in occasional > > hard landings would put the lower arm components in compression once > > too often, stripping threads? The rebound may not help either. I > > know this is amateur engineering, but perhaps the trigear doesn't > > suffer as badly in ungraceful handling, because the force exerted on > > the counterweight will be less abrupt. Hope so. > > > > Reg, > > Fred F. > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 10:59:12 PM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: 912-S support ring --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" They're not pressed in but screwed in, with copious amounts of Loctite 680. They can be heated up and moved. But you only have one shot at it and you need to get it hot enough, otherwise there is a good chance they'll leak. Alternately, take them out completely, clean them up and reset with fresh Loctite. Duncan McF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "N55XS" Subject: Europa-List: 912-S support ring > --> Europa-List message posted by: N55XS > > Guys, > My 912-S arrived today, along with the mount ring. I got the ring > bolted up, without too much trouble, however there is a problem with the > alignment of the water pump outlet tubes on the port side. They are > pointing directly at the supports, preventing me from hooking up the > hoses, on that side. It looks as if the tubes are pressed into the > water pump housing. Anyone have any idea on how to twist/realign the > tubes so that the rubber hoses will connect? > > Thanks in advance... > > -- > Jeff - A055 > Only the engine stuff left to do... > > > -- > >