Today's Message Index:
----------------------
1. 01:12 AM - Out of Office AutoReply: Europa-List Digest:17 Msgs - 05/07/05 (Moore, Dave)
2. 02:34 AM - All these access hatches and one "viewing" hole (Graham Singleton)
3. 03:40 AM - Tour de France 18-25/6/05 (David Joyce)
4. 04:18 AM - Re: All these access hatches and one "viewing" hole (R.C.Harrison)
5. 04:52 AM - Re: LAS taking on ACS orders in the UK (Jeremy Davey)
6. 05:10 AM - Re: LAS taking on ACS orders in the UK (Jeremy Davey)
7. 07:55 AM - Re: All these access hatches and one "viewing" hole (EuropaXSA276@aol.com)
8. 08:26 AM - Re: All these access hatches and one "viewing" hole (Dale)
9. 10:28 AM - Mod 70 Club view (davebuzz)
10. 11:31 AM - Fw: All these access hatches and one "viewing" hole (EuropaXSA276@aol.com)
11. 01:10 PM - Re: All these access hatches and one "viewing" hole (Duncan McFadyean)
12. 01:38 PM - Re: Mod 70 Club view (Pete Lawless)
13. 02:05 PM - Innodyne turbines (Jeremy Davey)
14. 03:05 PM - Re: Innodyne turbines (Cliff Shaw)
15. 04:37 PM - Re: All these access hatches and one "viewing" hole (EuropaXSA276@aol.com)
Message 1
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| Subject: | Out of Office AutoReply: Europa-List Digest:17 Msgs - 05/07/05 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Moore, Dave" <Dave.Moore@lr.org>
I'll be offshore for 1-2 weeks commencing 9th May.
Please contact Doug Kemp 01224 267529
Regards,
Dave Moore
Lloyd's Register (EMEA)
Tel: (0)1224 267815
Message 2
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| Subject: | All these access hatches and one "viewing" hole |
--> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton <graham@gflight.f9.co.uk>
--> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaXSA276@aol.com
>>E builders and riders:<<
I am muddling through chapter 23 right now. Busy cutting out the access
hatches and the "viewing hole" in the rear of the fuselage.
The forward hatch is too far away. At this time, I have no idea why the lower
hatch is even necessary.
Am I missing something here? Have any of you considered enlarging the
viewing hole for easier access to the things that will need future attention?
Perhaps I am missing some revelation a few chapters away?
You comments and wisdom please!
>>Brian Skelly<<
Brian
you aren't wrong. IMHO the view hole needs to be much bigger. If you do this, make
sure all inspection holes are structural, ie capable of taking all the loads
in the skin across the hole. That means 6 screws in the larger holes.
A structural rule of thumb is " calculate the amount of glass cloth removed when
cutting out the hole, then add four times that area to make the flange around
the hole. Then the hole should be almost as strong without its cover as it was
before you cut it out." (I'm quoting the late much respected Barry Mellars
here, he did the original stress calcs for Ivan.)
Use the piece you cut out to make the cover, at least it will be the right shape!
It pays to make the flanges before cutting the holes;
Release wax inside over the place for the hole,
Layup the flange, 4 ply BID
Drill 2 or 3 Cleco holes outside the hole position for location, also the screw
holes in the still imaginary cover
Crack the flange off then cut out the hole, I use a Stanley knife and a small toffee
hammer. A fretsaw blade might do it even more nicely
Now the flange can be floxed back in place, the edges of the cover filled with
flox to a depth of maybe 4 mm.
Finally the fixing holes coutersunk and floxed in the same way, then screwed in
place with Tinnermen and allowed to cure.
Graham
Message 3
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| Subject: | Tour de France 18-25/6/05 |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" <davidjoyce@doctors.org.uk>
We have the possibility of a spare seat in a Europa for the T de F . If
anyone (pilot/builder/Francophile?) is interested, contact me. David Joyce
Message 4
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| Subject: | All these access hatches and one "viewing" hole |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" <ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk>
Hi! Brian,
IMHO you are quite right to have concern.
I made provision for this initially by increasing the size of the
forward hole to 5" diameter (1" larger than the manual I've seen too
many builders with scars up their arms with the 4" diameter!) but then
both holes are in the place stated. I had visions of problems accessing
the mounting screws so used cap screws of appropriate size to be able to
use the short end of a
Hexagon allen key. BUT I had them joined in pairs by welding a locking
plate under the heads. (so didn't use the allen key afterall! Then on
the reverse side of the bulkhead I used nylock nuts to get a 16th turn
ring spanner to fit. The lower hole provides access for your arm to
reach up to access the nylock nuts.
Regards
Bob Harrison G -PTAG
Robt.C.Harrison
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of
EuropaXSA276@aol.com
Subject: Europa-List: All these access hatches and one "viewing" hole
--> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaXSA276@aol.com
E builders and riders:
I am muddling through chapter 23 right now. Busy cutting out the access
hatches and the "viewing hole" in the rear of the fuselage. I'm
considering the
hole locations and how "handy" they really are in their stated
locations.
One of the main reasons I think they are necessary is for the
replacement of
the trim motor. < Adjustment of the balance weight as well to be sure>
The ability to replace the trim motor has always been a concern of mine.
Knowing full well that all things electrical can give up the ghost. In
addition, a
few of you fine lads have already had the pleasure of replacing and or
fiddling with said motor.
The way I see it, the task of servicing the trim motor would still be
impossible with the access holes cut per manual instructions. The
viewing hole
appears to be much too small to get a hand or screwdriver in our the
motor out!
The forward hatch is too far away. At this time, I have no idea why the
lower
hatch is even necessary.
Am I missing something here? Have any of you considered enlarging the
viewing hole for easier access to the things that will need future
attention?
Perhaps I am missing some revelation a few chapters away?
You comments and wisdom please!
Brian Skelly
Texas
Europa # A276 TriGear
See My build photos at:
http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS
Message 5
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| Subject: | LAS taking on ACS orders in the UK |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
Guys,
I wanted to give you a post-script to what was an unhappy episode but is now
very much sorted. I just spoke with Scott Powell (who runs LAS) and he's
been very keen to resolve the problems I've had. He also assures me that
they are most definitely not the norm, and that we can all look forward to
an excellent service from the LAS-ACS setup :-)
As I said to Scott, I judge my suppliers not by the mistakes they make, but
by the way they resolve them. I'm happy to say that LAS have stepped up to
the plate on this one and given me the confidence to continue to use their
service!
Cheers,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative
PFA EC Member
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is
possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation.
Tail done
Standard XS wings with mods underway
CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)
1390 build hours to date
Intended fit:
Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop
Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Davey
Subject: Europa-List: LAS taking on ACS orders in the UK
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
I guess all the UK folks are aware the existing arrangements for local ACS
orders have ended? I now see that LAS are taking them on and doing
twice-weekly consolidated shipping of ACS parts before onward distribution.
Does this fill everyone else with the same feeling of doom that it gives me?
I=92ve found LAS to be utterly incapable of getting even simple orders
right,
outrageously expensive (typically 200%+ of the ACS cost for parts), liable
to substitute parts without warning with their choice of equivalent, and
prone to sending everything by courier without even checking if that=92s
what
you want.
For example, one recent backorder of bits just got sent to me and they
charged me extra postage for sending it! GBP13 of parts, plus GBP25.90 to
send it by courier, when good old Royal Mail would have done it just as well
for about GBP3. After waiting for the parts for a month, an extra 2 days
wouldn=92t have been the end of the world. Needless to say I=92m fighting
it!
Cheers,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative
PFA EC Member
=93If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it
is
possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation.=94
Tail done
Standard XS wings with mods underway
CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)
1390 build hours to date
Intended fit:
Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop
Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms
Message 6
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| Subject: | LAS taking on ACS orders in the UK |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
From the folks I've spoken to, John, your argument is borne out. I think
I've just had a couple of unlucky experiences, and in fairness to LAS, they
have fixed the problems (see separate email).
If this proves a good way of getting small ACS orders over to this side of
the Atlantic quickly, I for one, welcome it now and look forward to it being
a success! :-)
Cheers,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative
PFA EC Member
If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is
possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation.
Tail done
Standard XS wings with mods underway
CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)
1390 build hours to date
Intended fit:
Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop
Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of John Cliff
Subject: Re: Europa-List: LAS taking on ACS orders in the UK
--> Europa-List message posted by: "John Cliff"
<mx@crixbinfield.freeserve.co.uk>
> I guess all the UK folks are aware the existing arrangements for local ACS
> orders have ended? I now see that LAS are taking them on and doing
> twice-weekly consolidated shipping of ACS parts before onward
> distribution.
>
> Does this fill everyone else with the same feeling of doom that it gives
> me?
Well, my experience with Light Aero Spares has been fairly positive. I
order only by phone and you get to hear if something isn't in stock. The
prices are in the catalogue, so if you don't like them ...... Delivery
has always been prompt and by post.
Actually I welcome the return to consolidated shipping via LAS, as used to
be the practice some years ago. The problem with smallish orders to ACS is
the high fixed cost of the carriage (even though they will send light and
small items by post which takes a while but is a bit cheaper and often
arrive with no duty or VAT levied - even if it is the Royal Mail admin
charge is much lower than that of people like UPS). It *might* provide a
way to get things at lower end-to-end cost for those of us who don't visit
the US regularly - we will have to look at the actual charges. Otherwise,
continue to use the website.
John Cliff
#0259
Message 7
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| Subject: | Re: All these access hatches and one "viewing" hole |
--> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaXSA276@aol.com
In a message dated 5/8/2005 4:35:44 AM Central Standard Time,
graham@gflight.f9.co.uk writes:
A structural rule of thumb is " calculate the amount of glass cloth removed
when cutting out the hole, then add four times that area to make the flange
around the hole. Then the hole should be almost as strong without its cover as
it
was before you cut it out." (I'm quoting the late much respected Barry
Mellars here, he did the original stress calcs for Ivan.)
Exactly what I needed to read. Many thanks Graham!
Do not archive
Brian Skelly
Texas
Europa # A276 TriGear
See My build photos at:
http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS
Message 8
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| Subject: | Re: All these access hatches and one "viewing" hole |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Dale" <gdh@isp.com>
Brian
I'm one of those that had to replace the pitch servo when it "ran away" and
drove the jack screw up through it's housing. To replace it, I had to
enlarge the "Viewing Hole". If your just cutting yours, I would recommend
making it larger now, rather than later.
Dale
A140XS with ~65 hours
----- Original Message -----
From: <EuropaXSA276@aol.com>
Subject: Europa-List: All these access hatches and one "viewing" hole
> --> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaXSA276@aol.com
>
> E builders and riders:
>
> I am muddling through chapter 23 right now. Busy cutting out the access
> hatches and the "viewing hole" in the rear of the fuselage. I'm
> considering the
> hole locations and how "handy" they really are in their stated locations.
>
> One of the main reasons I think they are necessary is for the replacement
> of
> the trim motor. < Adjustment of the balance weight as well to be sure>
> The ability to replace the trim motor has always been a concern of mine.
> Knowing full well that all things electrical can give up the ghost. In
> addition, a
> few of you fine lads have already had the pleasure of replacing and or
> fiddling with said motor.
>
> The way I see it, the task of servicing the trim motor would still be
> impossible with the access holes cut per manual instructions. The viewing
> hole
> appears to be much too small to get a hand or screwdriver in our the motor
> out!
> The forward hatch is too far away. At this time, I have no idea why the
> lower
> hatch is even necessary.
>
> Am I missing something here? Have any of you considered enlarging the
> viewing hole for easier access to the things that will need future
> attention?
>
> Perhaps I am missing some revelation a few chapters away?
>
> You comments and wisdom please!
>
> Brian Skelly
> Texas
> Europa # A276 TriGear
> See My build photos at:
> http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS
>
>
>
Message 9
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| Subject: | Mod 70 Club view |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "davebuzz" <davebuzz@aol.com>
Some of you may be interested in the Club's view of Mod70. You can find this
at:
http://www.europaclub.org.uk/ in the 'News' pages.
I realise it may not be what you wanted to hear, but in view of the seven
complaints I received, plus a small number relayed through the Committee and
noted on the list, we have certainly put some time into it, and I believe
the Mod does the job in replacing what it does.
It has been interesting to note a couple of comments on the list in favour
of the Mod, and for us UK owners, I think we are lucky not to be in the
position of those Shadow Microlight owners, who were grounded for months due
to undercarriage problems and no one to support them. At least we have a
Factory to support our plane.
If anyone wishes to pursue this further, and perhaps requires a PFA mod
number for the fitting of turnbuckles, then you can use mine:
<<
G-BXUM, kit67, PFA 247-12611, 'Additional cable Turnbuckles', Mod: M10028,
dated April 1997: Turnbuckles in both TP18 cables, Bolted at the front onto
the lugs with castle nuts and split pins.
>>
If this is you configuration then feel free to use it as a reference.
All the best,
dave
Message 10
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| Subject: | All these access hatches and one "viewing" hole |
--> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaXSA276@aol.com
It appears that the concessus is a 4" viewing hole with 4 ply reinforcement.
Thank to all for the speedy replies! Back to the shop for me!
Appreciatively.
Brian Skelly
Texas
Europa # A276 TriGear
See My build photos at:
http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS
From: EuropaXSA276@aol.com
Subject: Re: Europa-List: All these access hatches and one "viewing" hole
-------------------------------1115576919
In a message dated 5/8/2005 6:48:11 AM Central Standard Time,
djgeldermann@cox.net writes:
I cut it out to a 4 inch access hole. I also added
another 4 inch access hole on the lower left side of the fuselage about 8
inches in front of the rear bulkheadand and about 6 inches under the leading
It appears that the concessus is a 4" viewing hole with 4 ply reinforcement.
Thank to all for the speedy replies! Back to the shop for me!
Appreciatively.
Brian Skelly
Texas
Europa # A276 TriGear
See My build photos at:
http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS
-------------------------------1115576919
<META content"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2627" nameGENERATOR>
In a message dated 5/8/2005 6:48:11 AM Central Standard Time, djgeldermann@cox.net
writes:
I cut it out to a 4 inch access hole. I=20also added
another 4 inch access hole on the lower left side of the fuselage about 8
inches in front of the rear bulkheadand and about 6 inches=20under the leading
It appears that the concessus is a 4" viewing hole with 4 ply reinforcement.
Thank to all for the speedy replies! Back to the shop for me!
Appreciatively.
Brian Skelly
Texas
Europa # A276 TriGear
See My build photos at:
http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS
-------------------------------1115576919--
Message 11
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| Subject: | Re: All these access hatches and one "viewing" hole |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" <ami@mcfadyean.freeserve.co.uk>
Brian,
I think you may have missed the point. It was stated that four times the
area of "cloth" removed that should be provided as a flange around the hole,
not four plies; although the last time I heard this general rule quoted it
was to be three times the weight of the cloth removed from the hole.
Duncan McF.
----- Original Message -----
From: <EuropaXSA276@aol.com>
Subject: Fwd: Europa-List: All these access hatches and one "viewing" hole
> --> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaXSA276@aol.com
>
> It appears that the concessus is a 4" viewing hole with 4 ply
reinforcement.
> Thank to all for the speedy replies! Back to the shop for me!
>
> Appreciatively.
>
> Brian Skelly
> Texas
> Europa # A276 TriGear
> See My build photos at:
> http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS
>
> From: EuropaXSA276@aol.com
> Date: Sun, 8 May 2005 14:28:39 EDT
> Subject: Re: Europa-List: All these access hatches and one "viewing" hole
> To: djgeldermann@cox.net
>
>
> -------------------------------1115576919
>
> In a message dated 5/8/2005 6:48:11 AM Central Standard Time,
> djgeldermann@cox.net writes:
> I cut it out to a 4 inch access hole. I also added
> another 4 inch access hole on the lower left side of the fuselage about 8
> inches in front of the rear bulkheadand and about 6 inches under the
leading
>
>
> It appears that the concessus is a 4" viewing hole with 4 ply
reinforcement.
> Thank to all for the speedy replies! Back to the shop for me!
>
> Appreciatively.
>
> Brian Skelly
> Texas
> Europa # A276 TriGear
> See My build photos at:
> http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS
>
> -------------------------------1115576919
>
>
> <META content"MSHTML 6.00.2900.2627" nameGENERATOR>
>
>
> In a message dated 5/8/2005 6:48:11 AM Central Standard Time,
djgeldermann@cox.net writes:
> I cut it out to a 4 inch access hole. I=20also added
> another 4 inch access hole on the lower left side of the fuselage about 8
> inches in front of the rear bulkheadand and about 6 inches=20under the
leading
>
>
> It appears that the concessus is a 4" viewing hole with 4 ply
reinforcement.
> Thank to all for the speedy replies! Back to the shop for me!
>
> Appreciatively.
>
> Brian Skelly
> Texas
> Europa # A276 TriGear
> See My build photos at:
> http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS
>
>
> -------------------------------1115576919--
>
>
Message 12
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| Subject: | Mod 70 Club view |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Pete Lawless" <pete@lawless.info>
Dave
Thanks to all who made the effort to investigate this. There was no
reason to suppose that the factory got their sums wrong but the
temptation to add an additional pair of braces was very high,
particularly given the wires were in place and to replace them in situe
would be near impossible!
Regards
Pete
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com
[mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of davebuzz
Subject: Europa-List: Mod 70 Club view
--> Europa-List message posted by: "davebuzz" <davebuzz@aol.com>
Some of you may be interested in the Club's view of Mod70. You can find
this
at:
http://www.europaclub.org.uk/ in the 'News' pages.
I realise it may not be what you wanted to hear, but in view of the
seven complaints I received, plus a small number relayed through the
Committee and noted on the list, we have certainly put some time into
it, and I believe the Mod does the job in replacing what it does.
It has been interesting to note a couple of comments on the list in
favour of the Mod, and for us UK owners, I think we are lucky not to be
in the position of those Shadow Microlight owners, who were grounded for
months due to undercarriage problems and no one to support them. At
least we have a Factory to support our plane.
If anyone wishes to pursue this further, and perhaps requires a PFA
mod number for the fitting of turnbuckles, then you can use mine: <<
G-BXUM, kit67, PFA 247-12611, 'Additional cable Turnbuckles', Mod:
M10028, dated April 1997: Turnbuckles in both TP18 cables, Bolted at the
front onto the lugs with castle nuts and split pins.
>>
If this is you configuration then feel free to use it as a reference.
All the best,
dave
--
--
Message 13
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| Subject: | Innodyne turbines |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
Folks,
Anyone (particularly Stateside) know anything about these little turbines
for the Experimental market?
http://www.innodyn.com/
Regards,
Jeremy
Jeremy Davey
Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative
PFA EC Member
=93If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is
possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation.=94
Tail done
Standard XS wings with mods underway
CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)
1390 build hours to date
Intended fit:
Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop
Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms
Message 14
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|
| Subject: | Re: Innodyne turbines |
--> Europa-List message posted by: "Cliff Shaw" <flyinggpa@comcast.net>
You will need a lot bigger gas tank. "wet wings" ?????
Cliff Shaw
1041 Euclid ave.
Edmonds, WA 98020
425 776 5555
http://www.europaowners.org/WileE
do not archive
----- Original Message -----
From: "Jeremy Davey" <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
Subject: Europa-List: Innodyne turbines
> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" <EuropaFlyer_3@msn.com>
>
> Folks,
>
> Anyone (particularly Stateside) know anything about these little turbines
> for the Experimental market?
>
> http://www.innodyn.com/
>
> Regards,
> Jeremy
>
> Jeremy Davey
> Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA
> Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative
> PFA EC Member
> =93If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it
> is
> possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation.=94
> Tail done
> Standard XS wings with mods underway
> CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings)
> 1390 build hours to date
> Intended fit:
> Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop
> Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms
>
>
>
Message 15
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| Subject: | Re: All these access hatches and one "viewing" hole |
--> Europa-List message posted by: EuropaXSA276@aol.com
No. I got that part too! But thanks for looking after me Duncan!
Brian Skelly
Texas
Europa # A276 TriGear
See My build photos at:
http://www.europaowners.org/BrianS
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