---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 05/25/05: 38 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:10 AM - Re: Mixture control for 914 (owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com) 2. 12:11 AM - Re: DOTH Wednesday - Panshanger? (Bryan Allsop) 3. 12:12 AM - Re: funny fuel gauge (Fergus Kyle) 4. 12:17 AM - Fw: He who shall be nameless (William Mills) 5. 12:19 AM - Paint Scheme (Steve Crimm) 6. 12:36 AM - DOTH - Wednesday-Not Panshanger (Bryan Allsop) 7. 12:41 AM - Re: Fw: He who shall be nameless (Alan Burrows) 8. 01:39 AM - Re: funny fuel gauge (Norbert P. Hoffmann) 9. 01:52 AM - Re: Re: Fw: He who shall be nameless () 10. 03:12 AM - Re: Fw: He who shall be nameless (Gerry Holland) 11. 03:31 AM - Re: Fw: He who shall be nameless (Alan Burrows) 12. 04:19 AM - Re: Fw: He who shall be nameless (Gerry Holland) 13. 04:35 AM - Re: Fw: He who shall be nameless (Alan Burrows) 14. 05:00 AM - Re: Fw: He who shall be nameless (Peter Rees) 15. 05:10 AM - Re: Fw: He who shall be nameless (Peter Rees) 16. 05:11 AM - Re: Fw: He who shall be nameless (Gerry Holland) 17. 05:30 AM - Re: Re: Fw: He who shall be nameless (R.C.Harrison) 18. 05:34 AM - FW: Re: Fw: He who shall be nameless (R.C.Harrison) 19. 05:38 AM - Re: funny fuel gauge (John & Amy Eckel) 20. 06:17 AM - PFA Feedback (Roger Sheridan) 21. 07:35 AM - Re: Fw: He who shall be nameless (Jeremy Davey) 22. 07:35 AM - Re: PFA Feedback (Gerry Holland) 23. 07:38 AM - Re: Fw: He who shall be nameless (Jeremy Davey) 24. 11:46 AM - Re: Re: Fw: He who shall be nameless (Peter Rees) 25. 12:04 PM - Le Touquet Fly Out Saturday 28/5/05 (David Joyce) 26. 12:04 PM - Tour de France 18-25/6/05 (David Joyce) 27. 12:06 PM - Re: FW: Re: Fw: He who shall be nameless (Trevpond@aol.com) 28. 12:14 PM - Re: PFA Feedback (NevEyre@aol.com) 29. 12:35 PM - Re: PFA Feedback (R Holder) 30. 12:43 PM - Re: PFA Feedback (Peter Rees) 31. 01:00 PM - Re: PFA Feedback (Peter Rees) 32. 01:11 PM - Re: PFA Feedback (Gerry Holland) 33. 02:16 PM - Re: PFA Feedback (Gerry Holland) 34. 02:16 PM - Re: PFA Feedback (Mark Burton) 35. 02:56 PM - Re: PFA Feedback (Jeremy Davey) 36. 02:59 PM - Re: PFA Feedback (Gerry Holland) 37. 03:40 PM - Re: Fw: He who shall be nameless (Jeremy Davey) 38. 03:46 PM - Re: PFA Feedback (Jeremy Davey) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:10:59 AM PST US From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Mixture control for 914 --> Europa-List message posted by: It's a no need! Regards Gert Gert Dalgaard Soerensen Stabelvej 9, Haarby DK 8660 Skanderborg Denmark Europa builder No. 151 Europa Classic / Rotax 914 AC reg.: OY-GDS Phone.: +45 8695 0595 E mail: lgds@post6.tele.dk http://home19.inet.tele.dk/dalgaard/oygds.jpeg http://www.oy-reg.dk/billeder/l613.jpg Den 24/05/2005 kl. 18.29 skrev Ronald J. Parigoris: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" > > > Is anyone flying with a mixture control for 914? How are you doing > it, how > does it perform? > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > I am about done for a while studying up on 914. Unless someone > convinces > me otherwise, I will install a mixture control of sorts. > > Instruments I have: > 2 UMA EGTs, one for left side and 1 for right > 1 CHT but with switch to measure left and right > Split Second O2 monitor, pretty slick readout with a number of LEDs at > center is Lambda of 1. They mapped the O2 sensor they use quite > extensive, > so i am pretty certain it will give more information than just being a > switch, like most 3 wire O2 sensors are used on cars. > > OK Mixture control. simple, change pressure going to the float bowl! 1 > switch, 1 knob, 3 LEDs. > > The 914 is turbocharged. When operated with MP under ambient, you > could > vent the float bowl to atmosphere. OK until you raise the MP over > ambient. > At that point you would begin to spew out the overflow and no fuel > would > be flowing into the manifold, it would go the other way. Rotax > engineers > most of the time connect the float bowls to airbox pressure. The > carbs > are adjusted to work using airbox pressure as a constant. > > Side Note, it is absolute critical that you have a good no leak > free flow > connection to this connection, as well as the airbox to fuel pressure > regulator OR ELSE!! > > Now when you go over approx. 100% power, the ECU looks for combo of > certain RPM and MP to determine that in fact you are making some heat. > Once it determines this, it then switches the plumbing from airbox > pressure to above airbox pressure. The way it does this is there is > a 12 > volt 3 connection switch/solonoid. Output goes to float bowls, > there are 2 > inputs, 1 from airbox normal pressure, 1 from a portion of airbox that > gets hit with impact air and is in fact over airbox normal. > > First off i will have a 2 position DPDT switch. 1 position will be > Auto > Rich where in fact ECU controls Rich, and the second position will be > Rich, where in fact it will be rich all the time. First off Rich > Mixture > is much more desirable than lean. So manual rich can be used to > determine > if rich of peak EGT, can probably be used to help cool down a hot > motor > and can be used in conjunction with choke to get you to a safe > place if > any number of things happens that causes a lean mixture. Also if > for any > reason my Lean control fails for any reason, by selecting Rich it will > take it out of the circuit. The Lambda display wants things when > making > some heat at full scale rich, or 1 LED less. > > Will have a Blue LED come on when ECU is asking Solenoid to come > on, and > will have another flashing Blue come on when Rich is selected. > > Now for lean. Even though the Bing type 64 is somewhat altitude > compensating, and does even a little better if turbocharged, none > the less > when you fly in thin air, the thinner the air gets, the richer > things run. > OK. Concept is since when you increase pressure to float bowl it gets > richer, then if you decrease, it will get leaner. Now this is a > turbo, so > to have a chance at some sort of linear control, you need to have some > means of a lower than airbox pressure that is constant changing > with the > airbox pressure. Not just vent or intake from atmosphere. I will plumb > into the balance tubes between the cylinders. This is MP, that from > what i > am told (I have yet to test) is about 1 inch below airbox pressure. So > concept is to T the airbox line going to the Airbox normal side of > the 3 > way solenoid/switch. Connect the extra nipple to a pilot controlled > valve > that then goes to the MP Balance tube. In other words leak some > pressure > to the Manifold (Which BTW also leans things out, will be limited > volume > though). Now if you hit Rich button it bypasses this in event of a > problem. I have all stuff to do a ground test, and after test can > determine what size of restrictor to install on MP leak so just > enough can > be allowed to leak. I will have a blinking Red LED situated so the > knob > extension will cover the LED when it is in Normal (richest position > it can > get). This way if Auto Rich or Rich is asking for rich, then the > red LED > will begin to get bright and flash. If not in Normal it will get your > attention. Other times the Red LED will glow dimly. > > There you have it. > > 1 switch, 1 knob, 3 LEDs. > > Testing before I install lean control in panel will determine just how > well it works, and if leak serious affects my MP gauge reading, and > just > how much the leak leans out due to pushing extra air downwind of > carbs. > > No matter what will install Rich button. I scratch built a ~ 7,500HP > Carburetor (A 30,000,000 BTU) hot air balloon burner in 1985 that > is still > flyin my machine, making this smaller task pay attention > superficial seems > to be a PIECE OF CAKE. > > (famous last words, overheated cylinders, melted/broken pistons, > trashed > gearbox, warped exhaust, seized turbo and bent connecting rods with > extra > venting in the crankcase on a new motor that didn't even fly yet.) > > Ron Parigoris > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:11:19 AM PST US From: "Bryan Allsop" Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH Wednesday - Panshanger? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop" Hi Paddy. I was told that you had done Panshanger and it was rubbish, so I changed it to Enstone. Is this a problem? Bryan 01 246207733; 07957 818787 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paddy Clarke" Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH Wednesday - Panshanger? > --> Europa-List message posted by: Paddy Clarke > > Hi Bryan, > Panshanger has a great little restaurant - the apple pie is amazing!!. > Hope to see you there,Cheers >> > Paddy Clarke > > Europa XS - 404 G-KIMM > > > ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 12:12:18 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Re: Europa-List: funny fuel gauge --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" hey! That's the trouble with capacitance - it wants to know what it's looking at....... However, it IS capacitance. Therefore one could 'fudge' the reading by adding or applying a subsidiary capacitance (or if it's calculated to resistance at the gauge) to fool it. That would mean working out a circuit to insert for whichever parameter one wants - say, 100LL or Mogas. I'm not there yet, but will have to do something like that if I want accuracy. Failing that, one could apply a secondary scale to the gauge to read the secondary fuel type quantity. Whichever method means measuring, measuring and plotting. Good luck, I think, Ferg A064 Oh, oh. I think PFA may want a word over there................... ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rmi Guerner" Subject: Europa-List: funny fuel gauge | --> Europa-List message posted by: "Rmi Guerner" | | | Hi all, | Surprisingly I get just the opposite with the Avelec capacitance fuel gauge: when full with mogas I consistently read 60 liters, and with Avgas 100LL I read 50 liters. | I also have another problem with this fuel gauging system: from time to time I have an "fuel tank fault" indication, or zero indication while the tank is full. Very difficult to troubleshoot as the problem is intermittent. Yesterday it happened only during a few minutes in the middle of a 3 hours flight. Any idea? | Remi Guerner | F-PGKL, XS 912S, s/n 395 monowheel, 320 hours | | | Subject: Re: Europa-List: Funny fuel gauge | | --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" | | Thats exactly the problem we had. Problem is that the gauge was calibrated | for Avgas - when we changed to Mogas, the gauge said that the tank was | always 3/4 full. | | | | | | ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 12:17:35 AM PST US From: "William Mills" Subject: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" ----- Original Message ----- From: William Mills Subject: He who shall be nameless I note "Popular Flying" is using a photo on the front cover by someone who shall remain nameless. Jeremy, I thought the club was going to put pressure on the Mags not to use such photos. Are you not having much success? Is there anything else we can do? (the royal we, that is) Best wishes (to all but him) William ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 12:19:57 AM PST US From: "Steve Crimm" Subject: Europa-List: Paint Scheme 0.12 HTML_SHORT_COMMENT HTML is very short with HTML comments --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Crimm" Does anyone have the URL for the software program that helps you design your paint scheme? Steve ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 12:36:06 AM PST US From: "Bryan Allsop" Subject: Europa-List: DOTH - Wednesday-Not Panshanger --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop" I have been advised that Paddy has already done Panshanger and it was only serviced by a drinks machine. That is not good enough for Europa fliers, so it will have to be ENSTONE. That is unless some else knows something that I don't. Cheers Bryan ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 12:41:50 AM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" I thought exactly the same when my copy arrived and if you look closely the guy in the right seat is wearing a Europa cap. Its almost like someone out there is laughing at us (or showing us two fingers)! -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Mills Subject: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" --> ----- Original Message ----- From: William Mills Subject: He who shall be nameless I note "Popular Flying" is using a photo on the front cover by someone who shall remain nameless. Jeremy, I thought the club was going to put pressure on the Mags not to use such photos. Are you not having much success? Is there anything else we can do? (the royal we, that is) Best wishes (to all but him) William ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 01:39:02 AM PST US From: "Norbert P. Hoffmann" Subject: Re: Europa-List: funny fuel gauge --> Europa-List message posted by: "Norbert P. Hoffmann" Hello, D-EUPA has the same trouble as you all have indicated here. To correct the missreading when filling up wit Avgas or Mogas, I came to the same conclusion then Ferg did: the capacitance gauge wants to know what it's looking at. However, my solution was a bit different. A second, shorter (about 10 cm) capacitance probe is being buried horizontally down into the lowest position of the tank. I already have a micro controller on board to convert the fuel level to volume, so I could feed the reading of the short probe to the micro controller. The short probe would be giving a capacitance reading the correlates to the -defined- length of it. That value would than be used to calibrate the real fuel probe - just a bit of arithmetic is needed. The obvious advantage: even a mixture of Avgas and Mogas would result in a correct reading. Will I change my setup to the above? Probably not. I consider one more alternative, namely going to the factory mod 60 schema. Much simpler, and probably more reliable. Norbert, D-EUPA Am Mittwoch, 25. Mai 2005 03:03 schrieb Fergus Kyle: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" > > hey! > That's the trouble with capacitance - it wants to know what > it's looking at....... > However, it IS capacitance. Therefore one could 'fudge' the reading by > adding or applying a subsidiary capacitance (or if it's calculated to > resistance at the gauge) to fool it. That would mean working out a circuit > to insert for whichever parameter one wants - say, 100LL or Mogas. I'm not > there yet, but will have to do something like that if I want accuracy. > Failing that, one could apply a secondary scale to the gauge to > read the secondary fuel type quantity. Whichever method means measuring, > measuring and plotting. > Good luck, I think, > Ferg > A064 > Oh, oh. I think PFA may want a word over there................... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rmi Guerner" > To: > Subject: Europa-List: funny fuel gauge > > > gauge: when full with mogas I consistently read 60 liters, and with Avgas > 100LL I read 50 liters. > > > time I have an "fuel tank fault" indication, or zero indication while the > tank is full. Very difficult to troubleshoot as the problem is > intermittent. Yesterday it happened only during a few minutes in the middle > of a 3 hours flight. Any idea? > > > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:52:34 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: RE: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless --> Europa-List message posted by: I was unaware that this was a picture by 'him' - and feel very stongly that the PFA shouldn't be spending our subscription money on buying his work - hes had enough money from europa ownsers as it is! Should we send E-mails of protest to the PFA? If we sent individual E-mails rather than one club one, it would give the PFA an indication of the level of feeling from the Europa owning community (which gives the PFA a good chunk of money every year). If so, can anyone recommend which PFA E-mail address we should all use - that way they can count them properly - if they had say 100 E-mails of protest, there is no way that they would be able to ignore them. Should we consider putting some form of 'NO More KW photos' posters in the our aircraft at the PFA rally? They really must be made aware that less than a year down the line, giving him our money really is rubbing salt into the wounds of those who lost a not so small fortune. I would be happy to lend my full support to the 'drive KW out of business' campaign. Peter ----------------------------------------- Email sent from www.ntlworld.com virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 03:12:27 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless From: Gerry Holland --> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland > I was unaware that this was a picture by 'him' - and feel very stongly that > the PFA shouldn't be spending our subscription money on buying his work - hes > had enough money from europa ownsers as it is! As with the Scottish Play.... He cannot be mentioned by name for fear of choking! But.... Are we absolutely sure? > Should we send E-mails of protest to the PFA? Yes and individually! Regards Gerry Do not archive ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:31:15 AM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" Look at the picture closely and you will see the Europa hat in the right seat. Look at the credit headed " cover picture" inside. Yes we are sure..! Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry Holland Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless --> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland > I was unaware that this was a picture by 'him' - and feel very stongly > that the PFA shouldn't be spending our subscription money on buying > his work - hes had enough money from europa ownsers as it is! As with the Scottish Play.... He cannot be mentioned by name for fear of choking! But.... Are we absolutely sure? > Should we send E-mails of protest to the PFA? Yes and individually! Regards Gerry Do not archive ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 04:19:00 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless From: Gerry Holland --> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland Alan > Look at the picture closely and you will see the Europa hat in the right > seat. Look at the credit headed " cover picture" inside. Yes we are > sure..! Then I guess we need to respond individually! Gerry Do not archive ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 04:35:38 AM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" Yes but who too ? -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry Holland Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless --> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland Alan > Look at the picture closely and you will see the Europa hat in the > right seat. Look at the credit headed " cover picture" inside. Yes we > are sure..! Then I guess we need to respond individually! Gerry Do not archive ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 05:00:15 AM PST US From: "Peter Rees" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" I've sent my E-mail to brian@jodel.freeserve.co.uk who is shown as the magazine editor on the PFA website - If anyone has any higher level contacts who they feel should be informed of the level of feeling, please let us have them. I think that ALL members of the PFA (europa fliers or not) should voice their opinion about how this man has ruined the dreams of many and should not profit further from permit flying in the UK. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerry Holland" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless > --> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland > > Alan > >> Look at the picture closely and you will see the Europa hat in the right >> seat. Look at the credit headed " cover picture" inside. Yes we are >> sure..! > > Then I guess we need to respond individually! > > Gerry > > Do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 05:10:26 AM PST US From: "Peter Rees" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" I just spoke to the PFA to find out who to write to and was given the address: graham.newby@pfa.org.uk I for one and certainly going to write to him and ask him to stop spending our money with Keith. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" > > > Yes but who too ? > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry > Holland > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland > > Alan > >> Look at the picture closely and you will see the Europa hat in the >> right seat. Look at the credit headed " cover picture" inside. Yes we >> are sure..! > > Then I guess we need to respond individually! > > Gerry > > Do not archive > > > ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 05:11:23 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless From: Gerry Holland --> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland > Yes but who too ? The Editor: Brian Hope magazine@pfanet.co.uk Or Graham Newby c/o office@pfa.org.uk Some Europa club Members are on the Executive Committee. May be it can be raised there too. My own thoughts are that no one at PFA gives a Tinkers curse about it and the indiscretions of unspoken name will not be accepted as pertinent to a Photographic Agencies input to the Magazine. In more enlightened society's justice is summary and swift..... Gerry Do not archive ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 05:30:21 AM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: RE: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Peter William Alan /All I was likewise incensed at the use of certain photos and registered my feelings to our esteemed Editor at least a month if not two ago. However it seems this question has been visited before and the PFA Mag Production is supposedly not making any payment for the photo's and to prohibit their use "would be a loss to the mag. since no wrong doing has been proven yet by the alleged perpetrator!" (I guess unless we have a rich benefactor to throw money at such a case there won't be any case to answer, this is how sick the finance system is in our country.) Personally that doesn't stop me feeling sick to the core for the guys who took a drop. I can also see the two fingers up or was it just the one next to the index finger ! But perhaps my morals are somewhat at a differing level so it seems in other issues too! Unfortunately you must join the real world because you won't "drive him out of business" but you could make it damn harder for him. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Do not archive. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of peter.rees05@ntlworld.com Subject: Re: RE: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless --> Europa-List message posted by: I was unaware that this was a picture by 'him' - and feel very stongly that the PFA shouldn't be spending our subscription money on buying his work - hes had enough money from europa ownsers as it is! Should we send E-mails of protest to the PFA? If we sent individual E-mails rather than one club one, it would give the PFA an indication of the level of feeling from the Europa owning community (which gives the PFA a good chunk of money every year). If so, can anyone recommend which PFA E-mail address we should all use - that way they can count them properly - if they had say 100 E-mails of protest, there is no way that they would be able to ignore them. Should we consider putting some form of 'NO More KW photos' posters in the our aircraft at the PFA rally? They really must be made aware that less than a year down the line, giving him our money really is rubbing salt into the wounds of those who lost a not so small fortune. I would be happy to lend my full support to the 'drive KW out of business' campaign. Peter ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 05:34:49 AM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: FW: RE: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Guys I replied with this message to Peter Rees but the forum hasn't forwarded it yet . Regards Bob H -----Original Message----- From: R.C.Harrison [mailto:ptag.dev@tiscali.co.uk] Subject: RE: RE: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless Hi! Peter William Alan /All I was likewise incensed at the use of certain photos and registered my feelings to our esteemed Editor at least a month if not two ago. However it seems this question has been visited before and the PFA Mag Production is supposedly not making any payment for the photo's and to prohibit their use "would be a loss to the mag. since no wrong doing has been proven yet by the alleged perpetrator!" (I guess unless we have a rich benefactor to throw money at such a case there won't be any case to answer, this is how sick the finance system is in our country.) Personally that doesn't stop me feeling sick to the core for the guys who took a drop. I can also see the two fingers up or was it just the one next to the index finger ! But perhaps my morals are somewhat at a differing level so it seems in other issues too! Unfortunately you must join the real world because you won't "drive him out of business" but you could make it damn harder for him. Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Do not archive. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of peter.rees05@ntlworld.com Subject: Re: RE: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless --> Europa-List message posted by: I was unaware that this was a picture by 'him' - and feel very stongly that the PFA shouldn't be spending our subscription money on buying his work - hes had enough money from europa ownsers as it is! Should we send E-mails of protest to the PFA? If we sent individual E-mails rather than one club one, it would give the PFA an indication of the level of feeling from the Europa owning community (which gives the PFA a good chunk of money every year). If so, can anyone recommend which PFA E-mail address we should all use - that way they can count them properly - if they had say 100 E-mails of protest, there is no way that they would be able to ignore them. Should we consider putting some form of 'NO More KW photos' posters in the our aircraft at the PFA rally? They really must be made aware that less than a year down the line, giving him our money really is rubbing salt into the wounds of those who lost a not so small fortune. I would be happy to lend my full support to the 'drive KW out of business' campaign. Peter ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 05:38:40 AM PST US From: "John & Amy Eckel" Subject: Re: Europa-List: funny fuel gauge --> Europa-List message posted by: "John & Amy Eckel" I may have missed this part of the discussion, but what happens if auto and aviation fuel is mixed. As I recall there has been talk of either auto or aviation fuel and the effect on the capacitance gauges. Unless the tank is drained, once fuel type is mixed there will always be a mixture of unknown ratio. It seems to me the calibration would be changed every time fuel is added to the mixture. Any thoughts? Ferg has a good idea of adding a capacitor for compensation, but because of the mixture ratio problem a variable capacitor would have to be used and you could calibrate your gauge just like tuning a radio....just kidding. John Eckel, A230 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Re: Europa-List: funny fuel gauge > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" > > hey! > That's the trouble with capacitance - it wants to know what > it's > looking at....... > However, it IS capacitance. Therefore one could 'fudge' the reading by > adding or applying a subsidiary capacitance (or if it's calculated to > resistance at the gauge) to fool it. That would mean working out a circuit > to insert for whichever parameter one wants - say, 100LL or Mogas. I'm not > there yet, but will have to do something like that if I want accuracy. > Failing that, one could apply a secondary scale to the gauge to > read the secondary fuel type quantity. Whichever method means measuring, > measuring and plotting. > Good luck, I think, > Ferg > A064 > Oh, oh. I think PFA may want a word over there................... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rmi Guerner" > To: > Subject: Europa-List: funny fuel gauge > > > > gauge: when full with mogas I consistently read 60 liters, and with Avgas > 100LL I read 50 liters. > time I have an "fuel tank fault" indication, or zero indication while the > tank is full. Very difficult to troubleshoot as the problem is > intermittent. > Yesterday it happened only during a few minutes in the middle of a 3 hours > flight. Any idea? > > calibrated > > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 06:17:14 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: PFA Feedback From: Roger Sheridan --> Europa-List message posted by: Roger Sheridan PFA feedback: -----Original Message----- From: Forwarded Mail [SMTP:forwardedmail@sheridanfamily.com] Subject: Popular Flying Photos Dear Graham, I should like to add my name to the list of those who vehemently oppose any remuneration from my PFA subscription going towards Keith Wilson or anyone or any organization associated with him. Please contact me if you feel this to be an unreasonable request. Many thanks for an otherwise excellent magazine. Kind regards, Roger Sheridan (026630) Roger Firstly may I say that the " list " is 2 people. I must commiserate with anybody who lost money or goods through the collapse of Europa, and may I say that apart from the not inconsiderable time we, the PFA, spent discussing the airworthiness issues with the CAA and the processes we put in place before Europa was rejuvinated, we also lost some $B!r(B1000 in advertising revenue that was unpaid. Having said all this, the collapse of Europa was a commercial business issue. Keith Wilson has for many years supplied excellent photographs for the magazine, and all at no cost to the Association. In fact Popular Flying would have been a much worse publication over the years without Keiths input. I hope this satisfies your request. Best regards Graham Newby Chief Executive Popular Flying Association 01280 846786 ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:05 AM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" William, The Club has discussed the matter with the PFA, and a number of individuals have also made representations. No success yet, but believe me, I am on the case! Like so many on this list, and speaking purely personally, I find the use of these images offensive - although I should add that I understand they are provided foc (to be confirmed!). Regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation." Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1400 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Mills Subject: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" --> ----- Original Message ----- From: William Mills Subject: He who shall be nameless I note "Popular Flying" is using a photo on the front cover by someone who shall remain nameless. Jeremy, I thought the club was going to put pressure on the Mags not to use such photos. Are you not having much success? Is there anything else we can do? (the royal we, that is) Best wishes (to all but him) William ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 07:35:37 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: PFA Feedback From: Gerry Holland --> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland From my quote earlier: My own thoughts are that no one at PFA gives a Tinkers curse about it and the indiscretions of unspoken name will not be accepted as pertinent to a Photographic Agencies input to the Magazine. The later PFA Response: > Having said all this, the collapse of Europa was a commercial business > issue. Keith Wilson has for many years supplied excellent photographs for > the magazine, and all at no cost to the Association. In fact Popular Flying > would have been a much worse publication over the years without Keiths > input. In legal parlance....I rest my case. The mind boggles! ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 07:38:28 AM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Oi! Holland! NOOOOOOO! I'm 'at PFA' and I DO give a shit :-) It's in hand, but every letter/email folks can send to Brian Hope will help my case. Cheers, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation." Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1400 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry Holland Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless --> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland > Yes but who too ? The Editor: Brian Hope magazine@pfanet.co.uk Or Graham Newby c/o office@pfa.org.uk Some Europa club Members are on the Executive Committee. May be it can be raised there too. My own thoughts are that no one at PFA gives a Tinkers curse about it and the indiscretions of unspoken name will not be accepted as pertinent to a Photographic Agencies input to the Magazine. In more enlightened society's justice is summary and swift..... Gerry Do not archive ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 11:46:35 AM PST US From: "Peter Rees" Subject: Re: RE: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" Well, I had my reply (and very promptly) from Graham Newby. Basically, all he says is 'sorry you guys lost money, we don't pay Keith for the photos and we don't see any reason to stop using them'. Anyone had a reply from Brian the magazine editor? ----- Original Message ----- From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: RE: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless > --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" > > Hi! Peter William Alan /All > I was likewise incensed at the use of certain photos and registered my > feelings to our esteemed Editor at least a month if not two ago. > However it seems this question has been visited before and the PFA Mag > Production is supposedly not making any payment for the photo's and to > prohibit their use "would be a loss to the mag. since no wrong doing has > been proven yet by the alleged perpetrator!" (I guess unless we have a > rich benefactor to throw money at such a case there won't be any case to > answer, this is how sick the finance system is in our country.) > Personally that doesn't stop me feeling sick to the core for the guys > who took a drop. I can also see the two fingers up or was it just the > one next to the index finger ! But perhaps my morals are somewhat at a > differing level so it seems in other issues too! > Unfortunately you must join the real world because you won't "drive him > out of business" but you could make it damn harder for him. > > Regards > Bob Harrison G-PTAG > Do not archive. > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of > peter.rees05@ntlworld.com > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: RE: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless > > --> Europa-List message posted by: > > I was unaware that this was a picture by 'him' - and feel very stongly > that the PFA shouldn't be spending our subscription money on buying his > work - hes had enough money from europa ownsers as it is! > > Should we send E-mails of protest to the PFA? If we sent individual > E-mails rather than one club one, it would give the PFA an indication of > the level of feeling from the Europa owning community (which gives the > PFA a good chunk of money every year). > > If so, can anyone recommend which PFA E-mail address we should all use - > that way they can count them properly - if they had say 100 E-mails of > protest, there is no way that they would be able to ignore them. > > Should we consider putting some form of 'NO More KW photos' posters in > the our aircraft at the PFA rally? They really must be made aware that > less than a year down the line, giving him our money really is rubbing > salt into the wounds of those who lost a not so small fortune. I would > be happy to lend my full support to the 'drive KW out of business' > campaign. > > Peter > > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:42 PM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Europa-List: Le Touquet Fly Out Saturday 28/5/05 --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" The Gloucester Strut are holding a fly out to Le Touquet this Saturday, and any Europa pilots would be welcome to join us. We are planning to depart Kemble at 10.30 local and arrive L T around 1.00 local. At the moment the weather looks cloudy with light winds and low probability of rain. I have prepared a very detailed briefing sheet for absolute foreign flying beginners, (channel virgins) and if anyone missed the previous Europa club guided fly out and wants to consider joining us, or if just interested, I will forward a copy on request. David Joyce, G-XSDJ ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 12:04:42 PM PST US From: "David Joyce" Subject: Europa-List: Tour de France 18-25/6/05 --> Europa-List message posted by: "David Joyce" We still have a spare seat for the Tour de France which is a gentle Europa circumnavigation of France over 7 days/6 nights, stopping at places designed to offer interesting things to do + good food and wine. There look like being 7 Europas on the trip and this is an ideal opportunity for a builder to get a bit of stick time on type together with an enjoyable week of continental flying ( if the weather and the trip is anything like last year). Any one interested contact me (email or 01454 260542) David Joyce G-XSDJ ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 12:06:18 PM PST US From: Trevpond@aol.com Subject: Re: FW: RE: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless --> Europa-List message posted by: Trevpond@aol.com Hi Guys, As one of the "heavily wounded" I can think of many things to do with he who should be nameless, let alone stopping the PFA using his pictures! I think he knows how to play the system, and doubtless will one day do the same thing again to some other innocent's who fall into his clutches. Trev Pond ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 12:14:07 PM PST US From: NevEyre@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: PFA Feedback --> Europa-List message posted by: NevEyre@aol.com Hi Roger / Gerry / Jeremy / Alan / William / Bob / et all........ I have been just as pissed off that KW is getting photo's ANYWHERE, not just in PF [ I would bet real money he IS getting money from the PFA] , and there are DOZENS of you out there , who I have spoken with recently, who feel the same. HOW ABOUT ANOTHER FORM OF ATTACK ? Whether he is getting money for the photo's, it is a comercial venture he is operating, do we know anyone in the C.A.A. who can look into the legality of useing PFA Permit aircraft, and C.A.A. non public transport cat' aircraft for aerial work ? I know of many ''sorties'' carried out in the Europa demonstrators, if he ever recieved ANY money for ANY of those photo's, can we ''get the ba**ard'' ? You can also be sure, he will be at Kemble this year, and the PFA will take his photo's, unless we can get enough members to make enough noise ? At the AGM, can someone propose that KW's work is vetoed, and get enough members there to force that through ? Let's pull together on this ? Cheers, Nev. ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 12:35:13 PM PST US From: R Holder Subject: Re: Europa-List: PFA Feedback --> Europa-List message posted by: R Holder > I have been just as pissed off that KW is getting > photo's ANYWHERE, not just in PF [ I would bet real > money he IS getting money from the PFA] , and there > are DOZENS of you out there , who I have spoken with > recently, who feel the same. HOW ABOUT ANOTHER FORM OF > ATTACK ? Whether he is getting money for the photo's, > it is a comercial venture he is operating, do we know > anyone in the C.A.A. who can look into the legality of > useing PFA Permit aircraft, and C.A.A. non public > transport cat' aircraft for aerial work ? I know of > many ''sorties'' carried out in the Europa > demonstrators, if he ever recieved ANY money for ANY of > those photo's, can we ''get the ba**ard'' ? You can > also be sure, he will be at Kemble this year, and the > PFA will take his photo's, unless we can get enough > members to make enough noise ? At the AGM, can someone > propose that KW's work is vetoed, and get enough > members there to force that through ? Let's pull > together on this ? Cheers, Nev. Hi Nev and the rest of those concerned about KW. I also had a swift reply from Newby also telling me that KW isn't paid for the photos. However that is "spin". [Spin is the art of making a statement which sounds true but which cannot be proven one way or the other]. There is no way we can be sure that KW isn't paid. Another example of spin was when he replied to someone implying that that respondent was the second person on the list complaining about it. Unless there is a way to promulgate who has written in, the powers that be can say things like that and no-one knows whether it is true or not. I hope he doesn't repeat the "2 now on the list" comment to anyone else - because we have got him if he does as there have been at least four on this list reporting that they have complained. I also see KW has the cover of the June PFA magazine also. Richard Holder G-OWWW - High Cross #51 ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 12:43:21 PM PST US From: "Peter Rees" Subject: Re: Europa-List: PFA Feedback --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" Why will the PFA not listen? They are supposed to represent the interests of its members - we do after all pay the wages!!! Members who lost money are effectively being insulted by their own association! Why insult your own membership just for a free photos??? Just because KW allegedly isn't getting paid, it doesn't mean that his photos are any better than many of its members could supply - many members have pictures of their pride and joy that could be used - just because they're not flying doesn't make them any less interesting. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Europa-List: PFA Feedback > --> Europa-List message posted by: NevEyre@aol.com > > Hi Roger / Gerry / Jeremy / Alan / William / Bob / et all........ > I have been just as pissed off that KW is getting photo's ANYWHERE, not > just > in PF [ I would bet real money he IS getting money from the PFA] , and > there > are DOZENS of you out there , who I have spoken with recently, who feel > the > same. > HOW ABOUT ANOTHER FORM OF ATTACK ? > Whether he is getting money for the photo's, it is a comercial venture he > is > operating, do we know anyone in the C.A.A. who can look into the legality > of > useing PFA Permit aircraft, and C.A.A. non public transport cat' aircraft > for > aerial work ? > I know of many ''sorties'' carried out in the Europa demonstrators, if he > ever recieved ANY money for ANY of those photo's, can we ''get the > ba**ard'' ? > You can also be sure, he will be at Kemble this year, and the PFA will > take > his photo's, unless we can get enough members to make enough noise ? > At the AGM, can someone propose that KW's work is vetoed, and get enough > members there to force that through ? > Let's pull together on this ? > Cheers, > Nev. > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 01:00:50 PM PST US From: "Peter Rees" Subject: Re: Europa-List: PFA Feedback --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" Whats this about 2 on the list? That must be me and one of the other guys who owns Hotel India then I guess!!! Who else here has (or will definitly) write to Graham Newby? If we can get at least a dozen of us and tell him that we will raise this as a serious question at the PFA AGM, it may set him into action. I for one felt that the reply I got from him was a 'stock reply' - cut and paste from a 'we're really not interested as you have to be a PFA member to own a permit aircraft so you can't vote with your feet!' file. ----- Original Message ----- From: "R Holder" Subject: Re: Europa-List: PFA Feedback > --> Europa-List message posted by: R Holder > >> I have been just as pissed off that KW is getting >> photo's ANYWHERE, not just in PF [ I would bet real >> money he IS getting money from the PFA] , and there >> are DOZENS of you out there , who I have spoken with >> recently, who feel the same. HOW ABOUT ANOTHER FORM OF >> ATTACK ? Whether he is getting money for the photo's, >> it is a comercial venture he is operating, do we know >> anyone in the C.A.A. who can look into the legality of >> useing PFA Permit aircraft, and C.A.A. non public >> transport cat' aircraft for aerial work ? I know of >> many ''sorties'' carried out in the Europa >> demonstrators, if he ever recieved ANY money for ANY of >> those photo's, can we ''get the ba**ard'' ? You can >> also be sure, he will be at Kemble this year, and the >> PFA will take his photo's, unless we can get enough >> members to make enough noise ? At the AGM, can someone >> propose that KW's work is vetoed, and get enough >> members there to force that through ? Let's pull >> together on this ? Cheers, Nev. > > Hi Nev and the rest of those concerned about KW. > > I also had a swift reply from Newby also telling me that > KW isn't paid for the photos. However that is "spin". > [Spin is the art of making a statement which sounds true > but which cannot be proven one way or the other]. There is > no way we can be sure that KW isn't paid. > > Another example of spin was when he replied to someone > implying that that respondent was the second person on the > list complaining about it. Unless there is a way to > promulgate who has written in, the powers that be can say > things like that and no-one knows whether it is true or > not. I hope he doesn't repeat the "2 now on the list" > comment to anyone else - because we have got him if he > does as there have been at least four on this list > reporting that they have complained. > > I also see KW has the cover of the June PFA magazine also. > > Richard Holder > G-OWWW - High Cross #51 > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: PFA Feedback From: Gerry Holland --> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland Nev Hi! > I have been just as pissed off that KW is getting photo's ANYWHERE, not just > in PF [ I would bet real money he IS getting money from the PFA] , and there > are DOZENS of you out there , who I have spoken with recently, who feel the > same. I think so to. KW working out of kinship to the PFA....I dont think so. The payment in non CAA licensed Aircraft does seem a grey area worth investigation. My only fear is that he knows how to live on the edge of financial legality. Flying for Fun could be fun! Gerry Do not archive ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 02:16:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: PFA Feedback From: Gerry Holland --> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland Peter Hi! > Who else here has (or will definitly) write to Graham Newby? Done. No reply yet. Regards Gerry Holland ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 02:16:09 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: PFA Feedback From: Mark Burton --> Europa-List message posted by: Mark Burton > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" > > Why will the PFA not listen? They are supposed to represent the interests of > its members - we do after all pay the wages!!! Members who lost money are > effectively being insulted by their own association! Why insult your own > membership just for a free photos??? > > Just because KW allegedly isn't getting paid, it doesn't mean that his > photos are any better than many of its members could supply - many members > have pictures of their pride and joy that could be used - just because > they're not flying doesn't make them any less interesting. Sure, Wilson's a bastard and ripped lots of people off, but the pathetic bleating that has been posted on this list in the last 24 hours is not going to send him to jail. Get real. To listen to you guys, you would think that the PFA was in cahoots with Wilson all along. Why not throw a rope over a branch and string him up, vigilante style. Hey, why piss about, let's string all of the bastards up! If you want to nail the man, get smart, not stupid. Perhaps Nev's got the right idea? Once upon a time, the Europa mailing list was informative and useful. Happy days. Now it's full of crap like this. Goodbye, righteous ones. Mark ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 02:56:52 PM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: PFA Feedback --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Apparently Harold Shipman was an otherwise excellent GP... Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation." Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1400 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Gerry Holland Subject: Re: Europa-List: PFA Feedback --> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland From my quote earlier: My own thoughts are that no one at PFA gives a Tinkers curse about it and the indiscretions of unspoken name will not be accepted as pertinent to a Photographic Agencies input to the Magazine. The later PFA Response: > Having said all this, the collapse of Europa was a commercial business > issue. Keith Wilson has for many years supplied excellent photographs > for the magazine, and all at no cost to the Association. In fact > Popular Flying would have been a much worse publication over the years > without Keiths input. In legal parlance....I rest my case. The mind boggles! ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 02:59:58 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: PFA Feedback From: Gerry Holland --> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland > Once upon a time, the Europa mailing list was informative and > useful. Happy days. Now it's full of crap like this. > > Goodbye, righteous ones. I presume that means you have unsubscribed? Which means there is no need of comment. Shame....Bye ?..... Do not archive ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 03:40:42 PM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Just a quick one, folks - I've confirmed the PFA don't pay for these photos. That still doesn't make it right in my eyes though. You don't see the CRE taking donations from the BNP, do you? Regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation." Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1400 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Davey Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" William, The Club has discussed the matter with the PFA, and a number of individuals have also made representations. No success yet, but believe me, I am on the case! Like so many on this list, and speaking purely personally, I find the use of these images offensive - although I should add that I understand they are provided foc (to be confirmed!). Regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation." Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1400 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Mills Subject: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" --> ----- Original Message ----- From: William Mills Subject: He who shall be nameless I note "Popular Flying" is using a photo on the front cover by someone who shall remain nameless. Jeremy, I thought the club was going to put pressure on the Mags not to use such photos. Are you not having much success? Is there anything else we can do? (the royal we, that is) Best wishes (to all but him) William ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 03:46:51 PM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: PFA Feedback --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Steady, Peter - there are some of us on the 'inside', you know? :-) We are listening, and representations are being made... I have asked about whether any money is changing hands - and am assured that that is not the case. Regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation." Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1400 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Rees Subject: Re: Europa-List: PFA Feedback --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" Why will the PFA not listen? They are supposed to represent the interests of its members - we do after all pay the wages!!! Members who lost money are effectively being insulted by their own association! Why insult your own membership just for a free photos??? Just because KW allegedly isn't getting paid, it doesn't mean that his photos are any better than many of its members could supply - many members have pictures of their pride and joy that could be used - just because they're not flying doesn't make them any less interesting. Peter ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: Re: Europa-List: PFA Feedback > --> Europa-List message posted by: NevEyre@aol.com > > Hi Roger / Gerry / Jeremy / Alan / William / Bob / et all........ > I have been just as pissed off that KW is getting photo's ANYWHERE, not > just > in PF [ I would bet real money he IS getting money from the PFA] , and > there > are DOZENS of you out there , who I have spoken with recently, who feel > the > same. > HOW ABOUT ANOTHER FORM OF ATTACK ? > Whether he is getting money for the photo's, it is a comercial venture he > is > operating, do we know anyone in the C.A.A. who can look into the legality > of > useing PFA Permit aircraft, and C.A.A. non public transport cat' aircraft > for > aerial work ? > I know of many ''sorties'' carried out in the Europa demonstrators, if he > ever recieved ANY money for ANY of those photo's, can we ''get the > ba**ard'' ? > You can also be sure, he will be at Kemble this year, and the PFA will > take > his photo's, unless we can get enough members to make enough noise ? > At the AGM, can someone propose that KW's work is vetoed, and get enough > members there to force that through ? > Let's pull together on this ? > Cheers, > Nev. > > >