---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Fri 05/27/05: 38 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:22 AM - Re: Ez trim - Update (JR (Bob) Gowing) 2. 12:50 AM - Fw: PFA Magazine Photographs. (MICHAEL PARKIN) 3. 01:27 AM - Re: Fw: PFA Magazine Photographs. (Alan Burrows) 4. 01:42 AM - FW: WAS Re: PFA Feedback NOW :- Voluntary Services. For British ... (Alan Burrows) 5. 01:43 AM - Re: WAS Re: PFA Feedback NOW :- Voluntary Services. For British consumption only. (Alan Burrows) 6. 01:45 AM - Re: Fw: PFA Magazine Photographs. (MICHAEL PARKIN) 7. 02:07 AM - Re: Fw: PFA Magazine Photographs. (Sean O'Reilly) 8. 02:35 AM - PFA, Wilson, PFA Engineering, etc..... (Jeremy Davey) 9. 02:41 AM - Re: WAS Re: PFA Feedback NOW :- Voluntary Services. For British consumption only. (Jeremy Davey) 10. 02:41 AM - Re: Fw: PFA Magazine Photographs. (Jeremy Davey) 11. 03:12 AM - Re: PFA, Wilson, PFA Engineering, etc..... (Alan Burrows) 12. 03:50 AM - Re: The price of Bacon Butties (Bryan Allsop) 13. 03:50 AM - Re: Fw: PFA Magazine Photographs. (Alan Burrows) 14. 03:54 AM - Re: PFA, Wilson, PFA Engineering, etc..... (Jeremy Davey) 15. 04:02 AM - FW: WAS Re: PFA Feedback NOW :- Voluntary Services. For British ... (Alan Burrows) 16. 04:07 AM - Re: Fw: PFA Magazine Photographs. (Jeremy Davey) 17. 04:12 AM - Re: The price of Bacon Butties (Alan Burrows) 18. 06:30 AM - Re: The price of Bacon Butties (William Mills) 19. 06:31 AM - Re: Fw: He who shall be nameless (William Mills) 20. 07:04 AM - Re: Fw: He who shall be nameless (Jeremy Davey) 21. 07:17 AM - WANTED: Good air-to-air photographer (Jeremy Davey) 22. 08:02 AM - New Subject needed badly (JEFF ROBERTS) 23. 08:26 AM - Re: New Subject needed badly (Alan Burrows) 24. 09:06 AM - Re: New Subject needed badly (JEFF ROBERTS) 25. 09:31 AM - Re: New Subject needed badly (Alan Burrows) 26. 09:38 AM - Re: New Subject needed badly (Gerry Holland) 27. 11:40 AM - Re: PFA, Wilson, PFA Engineering, etc..... (Garry) 28. 12:03 PM - Re: PFA, Wilson, PFA Engineering, etc..... (Alan Burrows) 29. 12:08 PM - Re: PFA, Wilson, PFA Engineering, etc..... (Gerry Holland) 30. 12:22 PM - Re: PFA, Wilson, PFA Engineering, etc..... (Jeremy Davey) 31. 12:24 PM - Re: The price of Bacon Butties (Bryan Allsop) 32. 12:28 PM - DOTH Venues (Bryan Allsop) 33. 12:41 PM - Re: New Subject needed badly (Peter Rees) 34. 12:52 PM - Re: New Subject needed badly (Duncan McFadyean) 35. 12:53 PM - Fw: New Subject needed badly (Peter Rees) 36. 05:05 PM - Re: PFA, Wilson, PFA Engineering, etc..... (Garry) 37. 06:02 PM - He who shall not be named... (Steve Crimm) 38. 10:58 PM - Re: He who shall not be named... (Jeremy Davey) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:22:40 AM PST US From: "JR (Bob) Gowing" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Ez trim - Update --> Europa-List message posted by: "JR (Bob) Gowing" Peter Have we got the trim working yet or still experimenting? If the latter perhaps we should be contributing to a development fund to assist its completion and then getting our boards or complete kits? J R (Bob) Gowing, UK Kit 327 in Oz Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: Subject: RE: Europa-List: Ez trim - Update > --> Europa-List message posted by: > > Hi Peter > > Count me in for a board. Is anyone ordering the components as a package? > If not, I can get them from Mouser or Digikey and send a package to those > who want them. > > Please do the upgrade as you see fit. How about a simple switch that has ez > trim one way with regular trim the other? I don't conceive of the need to > have both operational at the same time. > > Tom Friedland A 079 N96V > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Peter Rees > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Ez trim - Update > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" > --> > > Hi Guys > > Sorry about going quiet on the subject for a few days - been busy with some > flying and fitting the spats (and boy does the aeroplane look fab!). > > I've had a price for the boards 'as is' from my PCB manufacturer but not the > > rough and ready ones that you see photos of - the price is for a board with > solder resist layers on both sides and an Ident layer (white print to show > you where the components go). > > If we can get 10 of this type of boards ordered, the price would be about > 14.50 (which includes me sending it on to you if you're in the UK). > > I've drawn up the original circuit design and will post that onto the > website in a day or two - at the moment, I'm trying to work out a way to > 'lock out' the alt hold unit if the pilot presses the trim switch - or at > least so that the switch and alt hold unit don't compete (and blow the > trip!) - I'll get on with this in a few days (when the boss is out of the > office!). > > If anyone is intersted in getting hold of the 'as is' alt hold board, let me > > know - I need to order at least 10 as the tooling cost (plotting) is split > across the batch. > > Peter > > > -- > > > -- > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:50:20 AM PST US From: "MICHAEL PARKIN" Subject: Europa-List: Fw: PFA Magazine Photographs. --> Europa-List message posted by: "MICHAEL PARKIN" This could be considered a result - I think. regards, MP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Newby" Subject: RE: PFA Magazine Photographs. Mike We are listening to the membership and will be sourcing other photos for the magazine in the future. The downside is of course that we will undoubtably have to pay for shots as good as SFBs. This will probably add some 6000 to the annual budget. best regards Graham Newby Chief Executive Popular Flying Association 01280 846786 > -----Original Message----- > From: MICHAEL PARKIN [SMTP:mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com] > Sent: 27 May 2005 06:57 > To: Graham Newby > Subject: PFA Magazine Photographs. > > Dear Mr Newby, > > In unison with many Europa owners, I must also register my objection as a > PFA member to the use of photographs by Kieth Wilson in 'POPULAR FLYING'. > What Wilson did to a lot of people in the Europa fraternity was totally > immoral - he caused the loss of a lot of money from a lot of people. > Whether, the photographs are provided free of charge or not is irrevelant > - the PFA should not use them. > > This is an Association ( it is rumoured!), why do you not listen to your > membership. > > regards, > > M Parkin > > Membership No - 026172 ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 01:27:22 AM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fw: PFA Magazine Photographs. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" Well done Mike, you obviously have influence in high places, can you see what you can about my authorisation to fit an autopilot please, although its only been two months, four letters, three phone calls all without even an acknowledgement ! -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MICHAEL PARKIN Subject: Europa-List: Fw: PFA Magazine Photographs. --> Europa-List message posted by: "MICHAEL PARKIN" --> This could be considered a result - I think. regards, MP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Newby" Subject: RE: PFA Magazine Photographs. Mike We are listening to the membership and will be sourcing other photos for the magazine in the future. The downside is of course that we will undoubtably have to pay for shots as good as SFBs. This will probably add some 6000 to the annual budget. best regards Graham Newby Chief Executive Popular Flying Association 01280 846786 > -----Original Message----- > From: MICHAEL PARKIN [SMTP:mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com] > Sent: 27 May 2005 06:57 > To: Graham Newby > Subject: PFA Magazine Photographs. > > Dear Mr Newby, > > In unison with many Europa owners, I must also register my objection > as a PFA member to the use of photographs by Kieth Wilson in 'POPULAR > FLYING'. What Wilson did to a lot of people in the Europa fraternity > was totally immoral - he caused the loss of a lot of money from a lot > of people. Whether, the photographs are provided free of charge or not > is irrevelant > - the PFA should not use them. > > This is an Association ( it is rumoured!), why do you not listen to > your membership. > > regards, > > M Parkin > > Membership No - 026172 ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 01:42:52 AM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: FW: WAS RE: Europa-List: PFA Feedback NOW :- Voluntary Services. For British ... --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" Dear Mr Newby Further to my email to you the other day regarding the use of Keith Wilson's work by the PFA I thought it might be useful to let you see a copy of a letter from the USA on the subject. It looks like the PFA may have a worldwide issue with this in addition to the obvious UK one. I implore you to re think your decision and not taint our organisation on the worldwide stage..! Kind Regards Alan Burrows ********************************************************************* Since I am in the USA, I have no weight with the PFA. There are many people throughout the world that have been screwed by this man that are also not members. However, I do feel that, as a group, we should show solidarity when "morally reprehensible" acts are undertaken against citizen of our flying community. I don't see how the PFA, or any group, cannot see the disdain for this man held by our group due to his actions and feel that shunning him would help prevent his ability to re-enter any flying business again. While he did not get jail time because a legal law was not broken, he broke a moral law and his shunning would be a moral penalty that could serve a purpose. Mike Duane A207 Redding, California ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 01:43:57 AM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: RE: WAS RE: Europa-List: PFA Feedback NOW :- Voluntary Services. For British consumption only. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" Jees Bob who wound you up.....so are you standing for election or what :-) -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R.C.Harrison Subject: WAS RE: Europa-List: PFA Feedback NOW :- Voluntary Services. For British consumption only. --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" --> I registered my disappointment of the association of the PFA Mag with Wilson about two months ago it is still valid and will be for ever, Mr. Newby please listen up..... Sorry, you American guys but we are sympathising for a lot of your buddys, just turn it off if you don't like it. Now to Jeremy Davey.... "In short, are you volunteering?......." I just may have, up to about 3 weeks ago but I have no wish to be part of the management of any organisation that has dished up what has prevailed over me behind the scenes from this group in this period. If my perception or even suggestions are wrong or incorrect then why hasn't my communications from 23rd April, 28th April and accompanying letter which was sent with my application for a cable retention "variant option" to Mod. 70 dated 12th May received the courtesy of either a reply, acknowledgement or a 'phone call even now? Except when I called I was arrogantly told to "make a written application send 45 and get in the queue." As I see it you picked up the challenge of being on the EC and you'll be judged on whether the PFA are ultimately listening or not. From where I stand I can't see a flutter of a move towards inclusiveness, or signs of a user caring organisation other than an authoritarian regulator which you and Rickard have even tried to extend through the Europa Club. (Excepting the representation and lobbying on our behalf at the International Organisations who are frustrating our sport of which we get limited information) If the "membership base" is to flourish tinkering at the edges changing titles like "flying for fun" or inviting members to go the CAA way isn't going to improve it, just hard work to enable and encourage greater numbers of home builders to indulge is what's needed. This means less time taken to make simple engineering decisions and just a little bit of communication about the subject matter of a builders view point, problem or suggestion. We "the membership" have to be able to relate to newcomers truthfully as to how we see the PFA, in good light or bad and my experiences have only been good when I've managed to get one to one direct verbal communication with the Chief Engineer. IMHO the rest of the team need to take a leaf out of his book. Bob Harrison. ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 01:45:17 AM PST US From: "MICHAEL PARKIN" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fw: PFA Magazine Photographs. --> Europa-List message posted by: "MICHAEL PARKIN" Alan, Come on now, get real. You are now talking about engineering, there is not an ounce of blood in that particular stone. regards, Mike (It is better to be lucky than good.) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fw: PFA Magazine Photographs. > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" > > > Well done Mike, you obviously have influence in high places, can you see > what you can about my authorisation to fit an autopilot please, although > its only been two months, four letters, three phone calls all without > even an acknowledgement ! > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MICHAEL > PARKIN > To: Europa-List@Matronics.Com > Subject: Europa-List: Fw: PFA Magazine Photographs. > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "MICHAEL PARKIN" > --> > > This could be considered a result - I think. > > regards, > > MP > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Graham Newby" > To: "MICHAEL PARKIN" > Subject: RE: PFA Magazine Photographs. > > > Mike > We are listening to the membership and will be sourcing other photos for > the magazine in the future. The downside is of course that we will > undoubtably have to pay for shots as good as SFBs. This will probably > add some 6000 to the annual budget. > > best regards > > Graham Newby > Chief Executive > Popular Flying Association > > 01280 846786 > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: MICHAEL PARKIN [SMTP:mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com] >> Sent: 27 May 2005 06:57 >> To: Graham Newby >> Subject: PFA Magazine Photographs. >> >> Dear Mr Newby, >> >> In unison with many Europa owners, I must also register my objection >> as a PFA member to the use of photographs by Kieth Wilson in 'POPULAR >> FLYING'. What Wilson did to a lot of people in the Europa fraternity >> was totally immoral - he caused the loss of a lot of money from a lot >> of people. Whether, the photographs are provided free of charge or not > >> is irrevelant >> - the PFA should not use them. >> >> This is an Association ( it is rumoured!), why do you not listen to >> your membership. >> >> regards, >> >> M Parkin >> >> Membership No - 026172 > > > ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 02:07:40 AM PST US From: "Sean O'Reilly" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fw: PFA Magazine Photographs. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Sean O'Reilly" Grear result Mike - sustained pressure from the Europa community has prevailed. Any other Wilson sightings? >From: "MICHAEL PARKIN" >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com >To: "Europa-List@Matronics.Com" >Subject: Europa-List: Fw: PFA Magazine Photographs. >Date: Fri, 27 May 2005 08:46:12 +0100 > >--> Europa-List message posted by: "MICHAEL PARKIN" > > >This could be considered a result - I think. > >regards, > >MP > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Graham Newby" >To: "MICHAEL PARKIN" >Subject: RE: PFA Magazine Photographs. > > >Mike >We are listening to the membership and will be sourcing other photos for >the >magazine in the future. The downside is of course that we will undoubtably >have to pay for shots as good as SFBs. This will probably add some 6000 to >the annual budget. > >best regards > >Graham Newby >Chief Executive >Popular Flying Association > >01280 846786 > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: MICHAEL PARKIN [SMTP:mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com] > > Sent: 27 May 2005 06:57 > > To: Graham Newby > > Subject: PFA Magazine Photographs. > > > > Dear Mr Newby, > > > > In unison with many Europa owners, I must also register my objection as >a > > PFA member to the use of photographs by Kieth Wilson in 'POPULAR >FLYING'. > > What Wilson did to a lot of people in the Europa fraternity was totally > > immoral - he caused the loss of a lot of money from a lot of people. > > Whether, the photographs are provided free of charge or not is >irrevelant > > - the PFA should not use them. > > > > This is an Association ( it is rumoured!), why do you not listen to your > > membership. > > > > regards, > > > > M Parkin > > > > Membership No - 026172 > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 02:35:17 AM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: Europa-List: PFA, Wilson, PFA Engineering, etc..... --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Folks, I admit I=92m starting to get a bit pissed off here in Oxfordshire=85 There seem to be no end to the postings saying the PFA are a wunch of bankers, Engineering are particular tossers, and I=92m a toe-rag (or worse), too, for being a part of that organisation. Can I just make a few points clear? 1) Well done to all those who actually got their finger out and sent one of the emails that got Graham Newby to change his mind. That is the right way to achieve results. 2) It seems to me that the PFA is now FULLY aware of the depth of our feelings about Wilson and the use of SFB images, the organisation HAS listened. Further, it is my honest belief that until a flood of emails landed in Graham Newby=92s Inbox, he was just regarding it as one or two whingers. Before anyone takes offence at that, please bear in mind that he (and I!) are bombarded with emails, a significant proportion of which are from whingers and go along the lines of: =93I bought a model F of my chosen engine when model H is the approved one, because it cost me three-and-sixpence instead of fourteen grand, and PFA Engineering are tossers for not letting me just bolt it on and go flying=94. It is probably worth noting that it costs the PFA a four-figure sum to undertake the work necessary to approve the model F version =96 in order to save the one member 14000 =96 0/3/6 pounds. 3) The issue of the use of SFB is an issue that has been going on some time with the PFA. The Club has raised it, I=92ve raised it (and have been lobbied continually =96 and politely - by Sean O=92Reilly about it), and finally the strength of feeling has become known. 4) Engineering was in one hell of a mess operationally from about 2 years ago until recently. It is still dragging itself out of there and significant pressure and appropriate support is being given to the management to get it out of that mess as soon as possible. I=92m working my bollocks off to resolve the problems and provide the sort of service that I think the PFA members deserve. Let me also make it quite clear that I have made it absolutely clear to Engineering that I expect no favours for being on the EC, and am therefore subject to just the same frustrations as everyone else. I would not normally post this information publicly, but in view of the attack on me by one contributor to this list yesterday, I think it=92s important to do so now. 5) The PFA is not yet perfect, but it is all we=92ve got in the UK. There is a huge amount going on at European level and UK government level that needs resolving NOW. The only viable way of ensuring that our voice is heard during this process is to ensure that the PFA is in a position to campaign effectively on our behalf. Again, I=92m taking a leading part in that with the forming of the Campaigning Aviators Network to coordinate volunteers in lobbying the various bodies. It is noted that the individual mentioned above has not volunteered to join CAN. 6) I have got much better things to do. I get married four weeks tomorrow. I=92m moving house. I=92ve a plane to build. I=92ve a full-time job. The sort of attacks I=92ve seen on this list leave me wondering if I=92m just wasting my time. I used to enjoy playing with steam engines, but that has ended up somewhat on a back-burner (no pun intended), largely due to commitments like the PFA and the Club. I=92m seriously considering getting my shovel out and polishing it ready for action again=85 7) Finally, and probably the most important point for individuals wanting to get =91jobs=92 through Engineering =96 there is a system: so use it! There is no such thing as a =91variant option=92 with a mod. The process is to apply for a mod, on the correct forms, and in the correct manner. I for one do not believe it is arrogant for Engineering to ask a member to follow the process. It isn=92t hard for heaven=92s sake! On this subject, I and a number of other EC members have been putting in a lot of work exploring, among other items, how we can reduce the cost to members. One answer that came out clearly was to change the system so that those who do a decent job of their mods get them through sooner and more cheaply. That we are now working towards. If, after reading this, anyone still thinks I=92m a tosser, please advise me directly! I=92ll be listening, and will expect a strong justification. Regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member =93If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation.=94 Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1400 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 02:41:10 AM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: WAS RE: Europa-List: PFA Feedback NOW :- Voluntary Services. For British consumption only. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Nominations for EC open shortly... Unless I'm much mistaken, there are 7 places up for election/re-election. Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation. Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1400 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan Burrows Subject: RE: WAS RE: Europa-List: PFA Feedback NOW :- Voluntary Services. For British consumption only. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" Jees Bob who wound you up.....so are you standing for election or what :-) -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of R.C.Harrison Subject: WAS RE: Europa-List: PFA Feedback NOW :- Voluntary Services. For British consumption only. --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" --> I registered my disappointment of the association of the PFA Mag with Wilson about two months ago it is still valid and will be for ever, Mr. Newby please listen up..... Sorry, you American guys but we are sympathising for a lot of your buddys, just turn it off if you don't like it. Now to Jeremy Davey.... "In short, are you volunteering?......." I just may have, up to about 3 weeks ago but I have no wish to be part of the management of any organisation that has dished up what has prevailed over me behind the scenes from this group in this period. If my perception or even suggestions are wrong or incorrect then why hasn't my communications from 23rd April, 28th April and accompanying letter which was sent with my application for a cable retention "variant option" to Mod. 70 dated 12th May received the courtesy of either a reply, acknowledgement or a 'phone call even now? Except when I called I was arrogantly told to "make a written application send 45 and get in the queue." As I see it you picked up the challenge of being on the EC and you'll be judged on whether the PFA are ultimately listening or not. From where I stand I can't see a flutter of a move towards inclusiveness, or signs of a user caring organisation other than an authoritarian regulator which you and Rickard have even tried to extend through the Europa Club. (Excepting the representation and lobbying on our behalf at the International Organisations who are frustrating our sport of which we get limited information) If the "membership base" is to flourish tinkering at the edges changing titles like "flying for fun" or inviting members to go the CAA way isn't going to improve it, just hard work to enable and encourage greater numbers of home builders to indulge is what's needed. This means less time taken to make simple engineering decisions and just a little bit of communication about the subject matter of a builders view point, problem or suggestion. We "the membership" have to be able to relate to newcomers truthfully as to how we see the PFA, in good light or bad and my experiences have only been good when I've managed to get one to one direct verbal communication with the Chief Engineer. IMHO the rest of the team need to take a leaf out of his book. Bob Harrison. ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 02:41:16 AM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fw: PFA Magazine Photographs. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Alan, As you know, I raised this with Engineering on your behalf a few weeks ago and there appeared to be a misunderstanding about whose court the ball was in. We were promised a rapid response. Have you not received that? Regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation. Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1400 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan Burrows Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fw: PFA Magazine Photographs. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" Well done Mike, you obviously have influence in high places, can you see what you can about my authorisation to fit an autopilot please, although its only been two months, four letters, three phone calls all without even an acknowledgement ! -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MICHAEL PARKIN Subject: Europa-List: Fw: PFA Magazine Photographs. --> Europa-List message posted by: "MICHAEL PARKIN" --> This could be considered a result - I think. regards, MP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Newby" Subject: RE: PFA Magazine Photographs. Mike We are listening to the membership and will be sourcing other photos for the magazine in the future. The downside is of course that we will undoubtably have to pay for shots as good as SFBs. This will probably add some 6000 to the annual budget. best regards Graham Newby Chief Executive Popular Flying Association 01280 846786 > -----Original Message----- > From: MICHAEL PARKIN [SMTP:mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com] > Sent: 27 May 2005 06:57 > To: Graham Newby > Subject: PFA Magazine Photographs. > > Dear Mr Newby, > > In unison with many Europa owners, I must also register my objection > as a PFA member to the use of photographs by Kieth Wilson in 'POPULAR > FLYING'. What Wilson did to a lot of people in the Europa fraternity > was totally immoral - he caused the loss of a lot of money from a lot > of people. Whether, the photographs are provided free of charge or not > is irrevelant > - the PFA should not use them. > > This is an Association ( it is rumoured!), why do you not listen to > your membership. > > regards, > > M Parkin > > Membership No - 026172 ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 03:12:09 AM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: RE: Europa-List: PFA, Wilson, PFA Engineering, etc..... --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" So what are you trying to say Jeremy..:-) Seriously though I for one welcome your involvement and have nothing bad to say about you or your work with the PFA. I would simply say that in my case it is apparent that organisational skills are badly needed within the PFA as my mod approval is simply a paperwork exercise as its been approved in the same format on other europa's, so it shouldn't require any major involvement from skilled technical personnel. If that part of the system was sorted out first, then it would free time for the more technical aspects you speak of. Please keep up the effort on our behalf and yes I would be prepared to stand for election as soon as I have some spare time, which hopefully wont be too much longer. Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Davey Subject: Europa-List: PFA, Wilson, PFA Engineering, etc..... --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" --> Folks, I admit I=92m starting to get a bit pissed off here in Oxfordshire=85 There seem to be no end to the postings saying the PFA are a wunch of bankers, Engineering are particular tossers, and I=92m a toe-rag (or worse), too, for being a part of that organisation. Can I just make a few points clear? 1) Well done to all those who actually got their finger out and sent one of the emails that got Graham Newby to change his mind. That is the right way to achieve results. 2) It seems to me that the PFA is now FULLY aware of the depth of our feelings about Wilson and the use of SFB images, the organisation HAS listened. Further, it is my honest belief that until a flood of emails landed in Graham Newby=92s Inbox, he was just regarding it as one or two whingers. Before anyone takes offence at that, please bear in mind that he (and I!) are bombarded with emails, a significant proportion of which are from whingers and go along the lines of: =93I bought a model F of my chosen engine when model H is the approved one, because it cost me three-and-sixpence instead of fourteen grand, and PFA Engineering are tossers for not letting me just bolt it on and go flying=94. It is probably worth noting that it costs the PFA a four-figure sum to undertake the work necessary to approve the model F version =96 in order to save the one member 14000 =96 0/3/6 pounds. 3) The issue of the use of SFB is an issue that has been going on some time with the PFA. The Club has raised it, I=92ve raised it (and have been lobbied continually =96 and politely - by Sean O=92Reilly about it), and finally the strength of feeling has become known. 4) Engineering was in one hell of a mess operationally from about 2 years ago until recently. It is still dragging itself out of there and significant pressure and appropriate support is being given to the management to get it out of that mess as soon as possible. I=92m working my bollocks off to resolve the problems and provide the sort of service that I think the PFA members deserve. Let me also make it quite clear that I have made it absolutely clear to Engineering that I expect no favours for being on the EC, and am therefore subject to just the same frustrations as everyone else. I would not normally post this information publicly, but in view of the attack on me by one contributor to this list yesterday, I think it=92s important to do so now. 5) The PFA is not yet perfect, but it is all we=92ve got in the UK. There is a huge amount going on at European level and UK government level that needs resolving NOW. The only viable way of ensuring that our voice is heard during this process is to ensure that the PFA is in a position to campaign effectively on our behalf. Again, I=92m taking a leading part in that with the forming of the Campaigning Aviators Network to coordinate volunteers in lobbying the various bodies. It is noted that the individual mentioned above has not volunteered to join CAN. 6) I have got much better things to do. I get married four weeks tomorrow. I=92m moving house. I=92ve a plane to build. I=92ve a full-time job. The sort of attacks I=92ve seen on this list leave me wondering if I=92m just wasting my time. I used to enjoy playing with steam engines, but that has ended up somewhat on a back-burner (no pun intended), largely due to commitments like the PFA and the Club. I=92m seriously considering getting my shovel out and polishing it ready for action again=85 7) Finally, and probably the most important point for individuals wanting to get =91jobs=92 through Engineering =96 there is a system: so use it! There is no such thing as a =91variant option=92 with a mod. The process is to apply for a mod, on the correct forms, and in the correct manner. I for one do not believe it is arrogant for Engineering to ask a member to follow the process. It isn=92t hard for heaven=92s sake! On this subject, I and a number of other EC members have been putting in a lot of work exploring, among other items, how we can reduce the cost to members. One answer that came out clearly was to change the system so that those who do a decent job of their mods get them through sooner and more cheaply. That we are now working towards. If, after reading this, anyone still thinks I=92m a tosser, please advise me directly! I=92ll be listening, and will expect a strong justification. Regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member =93If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation.=94 Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1400 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:50:42 AM PST US From: "Bryan Allsop" Subject: Re: Europa-List: The price of Bacon Butties --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop" Bugger! I thought I 'd got a bargain. Bryan PS Please dont mention EU fees on this site. It will precipitate another four pager from Bob H. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Re: Europa-List: The price of Bacon Butties > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" > > > Bryan, > The only way I can think that you paid but two quid is if you > walked to it mon ami. If however you flew, there's gas, oil, insurance, > PFA > fees, wear and tear and perhaps EU fees yet to be levied. Don't forget the > magazine with the landing fee pass. That's how the hundred dollar > hamburger > began.............. > Cheers, Ferg > If I took another coffee, I'd have to add the medical fees (parking, gas, > oil, w&t, etc) > then there's that great favourite, the income tax you gave the givvermint > for the amount you spent....... it's all gone. > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 03:50:42 AM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fw: PFA Magazine Photographs. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" I've had nothing at all Jeremy. I telephoned and was promised that someone would get back to me but on one did, so I emailed Andrew as you suggested and still nothing. I haven't even had some form of acknowledgement. Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Davey Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fw: PFA Magazine Photographs. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" --> Alan, As you know, I raised this with Engineering on your behalf a few weeks ago and there appeared to be a misunderstanding about whose court the ball was in. We were promised a rapid response. Have you not received that? Regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation. Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1400 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan Burrows Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fw: PFA Magazine Photographs. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" Well done Mike, you obviously have influence in high places, can you see what you can about my authorisation to fit an autopilot please, although its only been two months, four letters, three phone calls all without even an acknowledgement ! -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MICHAEL PARKIN Subject: Europa-List: Fw: PFA Magazine Photographs. --> Europa-List message posted by: "MICHAEL PARKIN" --> This could be considered a result - I think. regards, MP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Newby" Subject: RE: PFA Magazine Photographs. Mike We are listening to the membership and will be sourcing other photos for the magazine in the future. The downside is of course that we will undoubtably have to pay for shots as good as SFBs. This will probably add some 6000 to the annual budget. best regards Graham Newby Chief Executive Popular Flying Association 01280 846786 > -----Original Message----- > From: MICHAEL PARKIN [SMTP:mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com] > Sent: 27 May 2005 06:57 > To: Graham Newby > Subject: PFA Magazine Photographs. > > Dear Mr Newby, > > In unison with many Europa owners, I must also register my objection > as a PFA member to the use of photographs by Kieth Wilson in 'POPULAR > FLYING'. What Wilson did to a lot of people in the Europa fraternity > was totally immoral - he caused the loss of a lot of money from a lot > of people. Whether, the photographs are provided free of charge or not > is irrevelant > - the PFA should not use them. > > This is an Association ( it is rumoured!), why do you not listen to > your membership. > > regards, > > M Parkin > > Membership No - 026172 ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 03:54:41 AM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: PFA, Wilson, PFA Engineering, etc..... --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" :-) (Avoiding any punctuation that will get translated by the server of Matt into numbers beginning with an equals sign) I am trying to say that I am sick of abuse from those who whinge continually but always have a reason to not lift a finger themselves... I do not count you in that. As an aside, I make a note of those who repeatedly display an inability to follow a simple set of instructions. These notes form a list of aircraft I will not fly in. Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation. Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1400 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan Burrows Subject: RE: Europa-List: PFA, Wilson, PFA Engineering, etc..... --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" So what are you trying to say Jeremy..:-) Seriously though I for one welcome your involvement and have nothing bad to say about you or your work with the PFA. I would simply say that in my case it is apparent that organisational skills are badly needed within the PFA as my mod approval is simply a paperwork exercise as its been approved in the same format on other europa's, so it shouldn't require any major involvement from skilled technical personnel. If that part of the system was sorted out first, then it would free time for the more technical aspects you speak of. Please keep up the effort on our behalf and yes I would be prepared to stand for election as soon as I have some spare time, which hopefully wont be too much longer. Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Davey Subject: Europa-List: PFA, Wilson, PFA Engineering, etc..... --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" --> Folks, I admit I=92m starting to get a bit pissed off here in Oxfordshire=85 There seem to be no end to the postings saying the PFA are a wunch of bankers, Engineering are particular tossers, and I=92m a toe-rag (or worse), too, for being a part of that organisation. Can I just make a few points clear? 1) Well done to all those who actually got their finger out and sent one of the emails that got Graham Newby to change his mind. That is the right way to achieve results. 2) It seems to me that the PFA is now FULLY aware of the depth of our feelings about Wilson and the use of SFB images, the organisation HAS listened. Further, it is my honest belief that until a flood of emails landed in Graham Newby=92s Inbox, he was just regarding it as one or two whingers. Before anyone takes offence at that, please bear in mind that he (and I!) are bombarded with emails, a significant proportion of which are from whingers and go along the lines of: =93I bought a model F of my chosen engine when model H is the approved one, because it cost me three-and-sixpence instead of fourteen grand, and PFA Engineering are tossers for not letting me just bolt it on and go flying=94. It is probably worth noting that it costs the PFA a four-figure sum to undertake the work necessary to approve the model F version =96 in order to save the one member 14000 =96 0/3/6 pounds. 3) The issue of the use of SFB is an issue that has been going on some time with the PFA. The Club has raised it, I=92ve raised it (and have been lobbied continually =96 and politely - by Sean O=92Reilly about it), and finally the strength of feeling has become known. 4) Engineering was in one hell of a mess operationally from about 2 years ago until recently. It is still dragging itself out of there and significant pressure and appropriate support is being given to the management to get it out of that mess as soon as possible. I=92m working my bollocks off to resolve the problems and provide the sort of service that I think the PFA members deserve. Let me also make it quite clear that I have made it absolutely clear to Engineering that I expect no favours for being on the EC, and am therefore subject to just the same frustrations as everyone else. I would not normally post this information publicly, but in view of the attack on me by one contributor to this list yesterday, I think it=92s important to do so now. 5) The PFA is not yet perfect, but it is all we=92ve got in the UK. There is a huge amount going on at European level and UK government level that needs resolving NOW. The only viable way of ensuring that our voice is heard during this process is to ensure that the PFA is in a position to campaign effectively on our behalf. Again, I=92m taking a leading part in that with the forming of the Campaigning Aviators Network to coordinate volunteers in lobbying the various bodies. It is noted that the individual mentioned above has not volunteered to join CAN. 6) I have got much better things to do. I get married four weeks tomorrow. I=92m moving house. I=92ve a plane to build. I=92ve a full-time job. The sort of attacks I=92ve seen on this list leave me wondering if I=92m just wasting my time. I used to enjoy playing with steam engines, but that has ended up somewhat on a back-burner (no pun intended), largely due to commitments like the PFA and the Club. I=92m seriously considering getting my shovel out and polishing it ready for action again=85 7) Finally, and probably the most important point for individuals wanting to get =91jobs=92 through Engineering =96 there is a system: so use it! There is no such thing as a =91variant option=92 with a mod. The process is to apply for a mod, on the correct forms, and in the correct manner. I for one do not believe it is arrogant for Engineering to ask a member to follow the process. It isn=92t hard for heaven=92s sake! On this subject, I and a number of other EC members have been putting in a lot of work exploring, among other items, how we can reduce the cost to members. One answer that came out clearly was to change the system so that those who do a decent job of their mods get them through sooner and more cheaply. That we are now working towards. If, after reading this, anyone still thinks I=92m a tosser, please advise me directly! I=92ll be listening, and will expect a strong justification. Regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member =93If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation.=94 Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1400 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 04:02:35 AM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: FW: WAS RE: Europa-List: PFA Feedback NOW :- Voluntary Services. For British ... --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" Another result I think..:-) -----Original Message----- From: Alan Burrows [mailto:alan@kestrel-insurance.com] Subject: RE: WAS RE: Europa-List: PFA Feedback NOW :- Voluntary Services. For British ... Graham I'm really pleased you have made this decision I genuinely believe its the right thing to do. May I respectfully suggest you appeal to the readership to see if there is anyone out there who can either provide the work or at least submit some quality photo's. You never know what talent is available until you ask the question. Kind Regards Alan Burrows -----Original Message----- From: Graham Newby [mailto:graham.newby@pfa.org.uk] Subject: RE: WAS RE: Europa-List: PFA Feedback NOW :- Voluntary Services. For British ... Alan Many thanks for this. We are going to review how we obtain photos from other sources for the magazine in the future, but I fear this will probably mean having to pay for air to air shots and this will inevitably lead to an increase in the magazine budget of something approaching 6000 pa. Best regards Graham Newby Chief Executive Popular Flying Association 01280 846786 > -----Original Message----- > From: Alan Burrows [SMTP:alan@kestrel-insurance.com] > Sent: 27 May 2005 09:53 > To: graham.newby@pfa.org.uk > Cc: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: FW: WAS RE: Europa-List: PFA Feedback NOW :- Voluntary > Services. For British ... > > > Dear Mr Newby > > Further to my email to you the other day regarding the use of Keith > Wilson's work by the PFA I thought it might be useful to let you see a > copy of a letter from the USA on the subject. It looks like the PFA > may have a worldwide issue with this in addition to the obvious UK > one. I implore you to re think your decision and not taint our > organisation on the worldwide stage..! Kind Regards > > Alan Burrows > ********************************************************************* > > Since I am in the USA, I have no weight with the PFA. There are many > people throughout the world that have been screwed by this man that > are also not > members. However, I do feel that, as a group, we should show solidarity > when > "morally reprehensible" acts are undertaken against citizen of our > flying > community. I don't see how the PFA, or any group, cannot see the disdain > for this > man held by our group due to his actions and feel that shunning him > would help > prevent his ability to re-enter any flying business again. While he did > not > get jail time because a legal law was not broken, he broke a moral law > and > his shunning would be a moral penalty that could serve a purpose. > > Mike Duane A207 > Redding, California ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 04:07:23 AM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fw: PFA Magazine Photographs. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Leave it with me... Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation. Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1400 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan Burrows Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fw: PFA Magazine Photographs. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" I've had nothing at all Jeremy. I telephoned and was promised that someone would get back to me but on one did, so I emailed Andrew as you suggested and still nothing. I haven't even had some form of acknowledgement. Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Jeremy Davey Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fw: PFA Magazine Photographs. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" --> Alan, As you know, I raised this with Engineering on your behalf a few weeks ago and there appeared to be a misunderstanding about whose court the ball was in. We were promised a rapid response. Have you not received that? Regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation. Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1400 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Alan Burrows Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fw: PFA Magazine Photographs. --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" Well done Mike, you obviously have influence in high places, can you see what you can about my authorisation to fit an autopilot please, although its only been two months, four letters, three phone calls all without even an acknowledgement ! -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of MICHAEL PARKIN Subject: Europa-List: Fw: PFA Magazine Photographs. --> Europa-List message posted by: "MICHAEL PARKIN" --> This could be considered a result - I think. regards, MP ----- Original Message ----- From: "Graham Newby" Subject: RE: PFA Magazine Photographs. Mike We are listening to the membership and will be sourcing other photos for the magazine in the future. The downside is of course that we will undoubtably have to pay for shots as good as SFBs. This will probably add some 6000 to the annual budget. best regards Graham Newby Chief Executive Popular Flying Association 01280 846786 > -----Original Message----- > From: MICHAEL PARKIN [SMTP:mikenjulie.parkin@btopenworld.com] > Sent: 27 May 2005 06:57 > To: Graham Newby > Subject: PFA Magazine Photographs. > > Dear Mr Newby, > > In unison with many Europa owners, I must also register my objection > as a PFA member to the use of photographs by Kieth Wilson in 'POPULAR > FLYING'. What Wilson did to a lot of people in the Europa fraternity > was totally immoral - he caused the loss of a lot of money from a lot > of people. Whether, the photographs are provided free of charge or not > is irrevelant > - the PFA should not use them. > > This is an Association ( it is rumoured!), why do you not listen to > your membership. > > regards, > > M Parkin > > Membership No - 026172 ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 04:12:32 AM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: RE: Europa-List: The price of Bacon Butties --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" Are you suggesting Bob may have an issue with the "shhh" I will remember that the next time I need to wind him up :-) Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan Allsop Subject: Re: Europa-List: The price of Bacon Butties --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop" --> Bugger! I thought I 'd got a bargain. Bryan PS Please dont mention EU fees on this site. It will precipitate another four pager from Bob H. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Re: Europa-List: The price of Bacon Butties > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" > > > Bryan, > The only way I can think that you paid but two quid is if > you walked to it mon ami. If however you flew, there's gas, oil, > insurance, PFA fees, wear and tear and perhaps EU fees yet to be > levied. Don't forget the magazine with the landing fee pass. That's > how the hundred dollar hamburger > began.............. > Cheers, Ferg > If I took another coffee, I'd have to add the medical fees (parking, gas, > oil, w&t, etc) > then there's that great favourite, the income tax you gave the givvermint > for the amount you spent....... it's all gone. > > > ________________________________ Message 18 ____________________________________ Time: 06:30:06 AM PST US From: "William Mills" Subject: Re: Europa-List: The price of Bacon Butties --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" Hi Bryan, I'm afraid you changed the DOTH venue too late for Rick Morris and me. We went to Panshanger as arranged and enjoyed a very pleasant and healthy lunch. I can confirm, as previously reported by Paddy, that the restaurant and menu at Panshanger is very good and I have to say is much better than at Enstone. How many went to Enstone? Best wishes, William ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Allsop" Subject: Europa-List: The price of Bacon Butties > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop" > > Sorry Fergus! The exchange rate may not be good, but my bacon butty and > coffee cost less than two pounds on Wednesday. > > Cheers, Dother Bryan. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fergus Kyle" > To: "EUROPALIST" > Subject: Europa-List: off topic - PFA > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" > > > > Folks - > > Those of you involved in the UK in the firm's writhings are > > undoubtedly sincere in the intensity of your attitudes. One can sense that > > readily. > > However for those of us (touched or not by Nameless' > > indiscretions) who abide on the outer fringes - NA, SA, AFR, ASIA and > > AUS - > > the results are variously distant, comic, distressing or in one or two > > cases, infuriating. Perhaps you can see the attitudes of several hundred > > fellow builders being affected by an essentially local event - as is > > photgraphy for a national publication. > > This is countered here by following the DOTH series for the > > pleasure of seeing good friends enjoying their hundred-pound > > butties........ > > which distance may stifle here. > > Nevertheless, please consider making your campaign on another > > URL, or at least on a lesser address list. This will serve to prevent > > polarising a fairly cohesive group - to the detriment of us all. > > E&OE > > Cheers, Ferg > > PS: It appears that PFA is an association which has legal and procedural > > powers which transcend the term. It is interesting to see the different > > impressions various members reveal of the establishment. > > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 19 ____________________________________ Time: 06:31:37 AM PST US From: "William Mills" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" Jeremy, Whether or not KW is paid for the photos, the mere fact that his photos are published gives him some form of credibility. In my opinion he most certainly does not deserve any at all. I am pleased you are following it up and hope you are successful. I have emailed Graham N. and have tried to enlighten him as to the extent of the dishonesty. Best wishes, William Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > > William, > > The Club has discussed the matter with the PFA, and a number of individuals > have also made representations. No success yet, but believe me, I am on the > case! Like so many on this list, and speaking purely personally, I find the > use of these images offensive - although I should add that I understand they > are provided foc (to be confirmed!). > > Regards, > Jeremy > > > Jeremy Davey > Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA > Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative > PFA EC Member > "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is > possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation." > Tail done > Standard XS wings with mods underway > CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) > 1400 build hours to date > Intended fit: > Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop > Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Mills > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" > --> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: William Mills > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: He who shall be nameless > > > I note "Popular Flying" is using a photo on the front cover by someone who > shall remain nameless. > Jeremy, I thought the club was going to put pressure on the Mags not to use > such photos. Are you not having much success? Is there anything else we > can do? (the royal we, that is) Best wishes (to all but him) William > > ________________________________ Message 20 ____________________________________ Time: 07:04:27 AM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Looks like you've got some email catching up to do, William! :-) All sorted, thanks to those like yourself who contacted Graham. Kind regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation. Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1400 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Mills Subject: Re: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" Jeremy, Whether or not KW is paid for the photos, the mere fact that his photos are published gives him some form of credibility. In my opinion he most certainly does not deserve any at all. I am pleased you are following it up and hope you are successful. I have emailed Graham N. and have tried to enlighten him as to the extent of the dishonesty. Best wishes, William Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > > William, > > The Club has discussed the matter with the PFA, and a number of individuals > have also made representations. No success yet, but believe me, I am on the > case! Like so many on this list, and speaking purely personally, I find the > use of these images offensive - although I should add that I understand they > are provided foc (to be confirmed!). > > Regards, > Jeremy > > > Jeremy Davey > Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA > Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative > PFA EC Member > "If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is > possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation." > Tail done > Standard XS wings with mods underway > CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) > 1400 build hours to date > Intended fit: > Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop > Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Mills > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: Fw: He who shall be nameless > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" > --> > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: William Mills > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: He who shall be nameless > > > I note "Popular Flying" is using a photo on the front cover by someone who > shall remain nameless. > Jeremy, I thought the club was going to put pressure on the Mags not to use > such photos. Are you not having much success? Is there anything else we > can do? (the royal we, that is) Best wishes (to all but him) William > > ________________________________ Message 21 ____________________________________ Time: 07:17:41 AM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: Europa-List: WANTED: Good air-to-air photographer --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" Folks, OK, we=92ve won the Battle of SFB Photographic in spectacular style :-) A good result, I think. But=85. we=92ve left the PFA with a bit of a problem and I think it would be nice if we could help them out of it. Although stopping the use of KW=92s photos was the right thing to so, they now need another air-to-air photographer (and admittedly Wilson was as good at that as he was at taking money for stuff he couldn=92t deliver). It was customary for KW to attend the Rally (now Flying For Fun) and do a considerable amount of air-to-air work which would be used over the next year for covers for Popular Flying, etc. I know we have some first class photographers amongst us (who can forget that shot of the Swiss Alps on a recent Europa Flyer cover?). Do we have any who meet the following spec: =93We need someone who can position aircraft for good air to air shots and that person needs to be able to brief all the pilots and " take control ". Obviously safety is paramount and the quality of photos secondary.=94 If this is you, please let me know. Aircraft and pilots will be provided. Just photographer and camera required. Finally, peace will reign in your Inboxes as of tomorrow morning, but those emailing me please expect a delayed response. I=92m going in for an operation. If you don=92t hear anything for a few days, don=92t worry. If you don=92t hear anything for longer, send flowers. Regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member =93If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation.=94 Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1400 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms ________________________________ Message 22 ____________________________________ Time: 08:02:36 AM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Europa-List: New Subject needed badly --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS If we can take the conversation back to building and flying Europas for a moment I would like to hear from anyone flying a tri-gear off grass. Could you tell me the hight of the bottom of the pant from the floor when parked on asphalt. It looks like I'll be stationed on a nice smooth 2600 foot grass strip south of Nashville when this bird is flying. Should I just leave them off and deal with the loss of speed? Any comments or answers welcome. Jeff A258 Panel done, primed and waiting for paint. ________________________________ Message 23 ____________________________________ Time: 08:26:46 AM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: RE: Europa-List: New Subject needed badly --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" Geoff I fly off grass fairly regularly with the pants fitted and have never had a problem. I simply take them off every few months to check there is no mud or grass build up, which there never is. So I don't think you will have a problem on a smooth grass strip. Incidentally I have been flying without them on my last couple of flights and have noticed about a 10kt loss of speed for the same power settings. Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Europa-List: New Subject needed badly --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS If we can take the conversation back to building and flying Europas for a moment I would like to hear from anyone flying a tri-gear off grass. Could you tell me the hight of the bottom of the pant from the floor when parked on asphalt. It looks like I'll be stationed on a nice smooth 2600 foot grass strip south of Nashville when this bird is flying. Should I just leave them off and deal with the loss of speed? Any comments or answers welcome. Jeff A258 Panel done, primed and waiting for paint. ________________________________ Message 24 ____________________________________ Time: 09:06:34 AM PST US From: JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: New Subject needed badly --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS Definitely worth leaving them on. Thanks Alan Jeff On May 27, 2005, at 10:37 AM, Alan Burrows wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" > > > Geoff I fly off grass fairly regularly with the pants fitted and have > never had a problem. I simply take them off every few months to check > there is no mud or grass build up, which there never is. So I don't > think you will have a problem on a smooth grass strip. Incidentally I > have been flying without them on my last couple of flights and have > noticed about a 10kt loss of speed for the same power settings. > > Alan > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JEFF > ROBERTS > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: New Subject needed badly > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS > > If we can take the conversation back to building and flying Europas for > a moment I would like to hear from anyone flying a tri-gear off grass. > Could you tell me the hight of the bottom of the pant from the floor > when parked on asphalt. It looks like I'll be stationed on a nice > smooth 2600 foot grass strip south of Nashville when this bird is > flying. Should I just leave them off and deal with the loss of speed? > Any comments or answers welcome. > > Jeff > A258 > Panel done, primed and waiting for paint. > > ________________________________ Message 25 ____________________________________ Time: 09:31:06 AM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: RE: Europa-List: New Subject needed badly --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" No problem Jeff, just a word of advise though. Don't fit them until you have fully mastered the landing technique on your particular field as you will surely damage them if you get things a bit fast and bounce down the runway a couple of times AS EVERYONE DOES initially (well all those who are prepared to admit it anyway), also you need to make sure everything is working well and that's much easier to check with the pants removed. Cheers Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JEFF ROBERTS Subject: Re: Europa-List: New Subject needed badly --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS Definitely worth leaving them on. Thanks Alan Jeff On May 27, 2005, at 10:37 AM, Alan Burrows wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" > > > Geoff I fly off grass fairly regularly with the pants fitted and have > never had a problem. I simply take them off every few months to check > there is no mud or grass build up, which there never is. So I don't > think you will have a problem on a smooth grass strip. Incidentally I > have been flying without them on my last couple of flights and have > noticed about a 10kt loss of speed for the same power settings. > > Alan > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JEFF > ROBERTS > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Europa-List: New Subject needed badly > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS > > If we can take the conversation back to building and flying Europas > for a moment I would like to hear from anyone flying a tri-gear off > grass. Could you tell me the hight of the bottom of the pant from the > floor when parked on asphalt. It looks like I'll be stationed on a > nice smooth 2600 foot grass strip south of Nashville when this bird is > flying. Should I just leave them off and deal with the loss of speed? > Any comments or answers welcome. > > Jeff > A258 > Panel done, primed and waiting for paint. > > ________________________________ Message 26 ____________________________________ Time: 09:38:10 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: New Subject needed badly From: Gerry Holland --> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland Jeff The bottom of Main Wheel Spats are 2.5 inches from hard surface. The Nose Wheel Spat is 3.0 inches. My tire pressures are probably slightly below 30 psi but it's a reasonable clearance. Regards Gerry ________________________________ Message 27 ____________________________________ Time: 11:40:46 AM PST US From: "Garry" Subject: Re: Europa-List: PFA, Wilson, PFA Engineering, etc..... --> Europa-List message posted by: "Garry" Jeremy, for those of us who speak "American" English, what exactly is a "wanker", and a "tosser". If addressed as such I need to know whether I should be insulted, or flattered. Garry Stout ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: Europa-List: PFA, Wilson, PFA Engineering, etc..... > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > > Folks, > > I admit I=92m starting to get a bit pissed off here in Oxfordshire=85 > There seem > to be no end to the postings saying the PFA are a wunch of bankers, > Engineering are particular tossers, and I=92m a toe-rag (or worse), too, > for > being a part of that organisation. > > Can I just make a few points clear? > > 1) Well done to all those who actually got their finger out and > sent > one of the emails that got Graham Newby to change his mind. That is the > right way to achieve results. > 2) It seems to me that the PFA is now FULLY aware of the depth of > our > feelings about Wilson and the use of SFB images, the organisation HAS > listened. > Further, it is my honest belief that until a flood of emails landed in > Graham Newby=92s Inbox, he was just regarding it as one or two whingers. > Before anyone takes offence at that, please bear in mind that he (and I!) > are bombarded with emails, a significant proportion of which are from > whingers and go along the lines of: =93I bought a model F of my chosen > engine > when model H is the approved one, because it cost me three-and-sixpence > instead of fourteen grand, and PFA Engineering are tossers for not letting > me just bolt it on and go flying=94. It is probably worth noting that it > costs > the PFA a four-figure sum to undertake the work necessary to approve the > model F version =96 in order to save the one member 14000 =96 0/3/6 > pounds. > 3) The issue of the use of SFB is an issue that has been going on > some > time with the PFA. The Club has raised it, I=92ve raised it (and have been > lobbied continually =96 and politely - by Sean O=92Reilly about it), and > finally > the strength of feeling has become known. > 4) Engineering was in one hell of a mess operationally from about 2 > years ago until recently. It is still dragging itself out of there and > significant pressure and appropriate support is being given to the > management to get it out of that mess as soon as possible. I=92m working > my > bollocks off to resolve the problems and provide the sort of service that > I > think the PFA members deserve. Let me also make it quite clear that I have > made it absolutely clear to Engineering that I expect no favours for being > on the EC, and am therefore subject to just the same frustrations as > everyone else. I would not normally post this information publicly, but in > view of the attack on me by one contributor to this list yesterday, I > think > it=92s important to do so now. > 5) The PFA is not yet perfect, but it is all we=92ve got in the UK. > There > is a huge amount going on at European level and UK government level that > needs resolving NOW. The only viable way of ensuring that our voice is > heard > during this process is to ensure that the PFA is in a position to campaign > effectively on our behalf. Again, I=92m taking a leading part in that with > the > forming of the Campaigning Aviators Network to coordinate volunteers in > lobbying the various bodies. It is noted that the individual mentioned > above > has not volunteered to join CAN. > 6) I have got much better things to do. I get married four weeks > tomorrow. I=92m moving house. I=92ve a plane to build. I=92ve a full-time > job. The > sort of attacks I=92ve seen on this list leave me wondering if I=92m just > wasting my time. I used to enjoy playing with steam engines, but that has > ended up somewhat on a back-burner (no pun intended), largely due to > commitments like the PFA and the Club. I=92m seriously considering getting > my > shovel out and polishing it ready for action again=85 > 7) Finally, and probably the most important point for individuals > wanting to get =91jobs=92 through Engineering =96 there is a system: so > use it! > There is no such thing as a =91variant option=92 with a mod. The process > is to > apply for a mod, on the correct forms, and in the correct manner. I for > one > do not believe it is arrogant for Engineering to ask a member to follow > the > process. It isn=92t hard for heaven=92s sake! On this subject, I and a > number of > other EC members have been putting in a lot of work exploring, among other > items, how we can reduce the cost to members. One answer that came out > clearly was to change the system so that those who do a decent job of > their > mods get them through sooner and more cheaply. That we are now working > towards. > > If, after reading this, anyone still thinks I=92m a tosser, please advise > me > directly! I=92ll be listening, and will expect a strong justification. > > Regards, > Jeremy > > Jeremy Davey > Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA > Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative > PFA EC Member > =93If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it > is > possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation.=94 > Tail done > Standard XS wings with mods underway > CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) > 1400 build hours to date > Intended fit: > Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop > Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms > > > ________________________________ Message 28 ____________________________________ Time: 12:03:46 PM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: RE: Europa-List: PFA, Wilson, PFA Engineering, etc..... --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" Go Jeremy answer that one. This I must see :-) Alan -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Garry Subject: Re: Europa-List: PFA, Wilson, PFA Engineering, etc..... --> Europa-List message posted by: "Garry" Jeremy, for those of us who speak "American" English, what exactly is a "wanker", and a "tosser". If addressed as such I need to know whether I should be insulted, or flattered. Garry Stout ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: Europa-List: PFA, Wilson, PFA Engineering, etc..... > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > --> > > Folks, > > I admit I=92m starting to get a bit pissed off here in Oxfordshire=85 > There seem > to be no end to the postings saying the PFA are a wunch of bankers, > Engineering are particular tossers, and I=92m a toe-rag (or worse), too, > for > being a part of that organisation. > > Can I just make a few points clear? > > 1) Well done to all those who actually got their finger out and > sent > one of the emails that got Graham Newby to change his mind. That is > the right way to achieve results. > 2) It seems to me that the PFA is now FULLY aware of the depth of > our > feelings about Wilson and the use of SFB images, the organisation HAS > listened. Further, it is my honest belief that until a flood of emails > landed in Graham Newby=92s Inbox, he was just regarding it as one or > two whingers. Before anyone takes offence at that, please bear in mind > that he (and I!) are bombarded with emails, a significant proportion > of which are from whingers and go along the lines of: =93I bought a > model F of my chosen engine > when model H is the approved one, because it cost me three-and-sixpence > instead of fourteen grand, and PFA Engineering are tossers for not letting > me just bolt it on and go flying=94. It is probably worth noting that it > costs > the PFA a four-figure sum to undertake the work necessary to approve the > model F version =96 in order to save the one member 14000 =96 0/3/6 > pounds. > 3) The issue of the use of SFB is an issue that has been going on > some > time with the PFA. The Club has raised it, I=92ve raised it (and have been > lobbied continually =96 and politely - by Sean O=92Reilly about it), and > finally > the strength of feeling has become known. > 4) Engineering was in one hell of a mess operationally from about 2 > years ago until recently. It is still dragging itself out of there and > significant pressure and appropriate support is being given to the > management to get it out of that mess as soon as possible. I=92m working > my > bollocks off to resolve the problems and provide the sort of service that > I > think the PFA members deserve. Let me also make it quite clear that I have > made it absolutely clear to Engineering that I expect no favours for being > on the EC, and am therefore subject to just the same frustrations as > everyone else. I would not normally post this information publicly, but in > view of the attack on me by one contributor to this list yesterday, I > think > it=92s important to do so now. > 5) The PFA is not yet perfect, but it is all we=92ve got in the UK. > There > is a huge amount going on at European level and UK government level that > needs resolving NOW. The only viable way of ensuring that our voice is > heard > during this process is to ensure that the PFA is in a position to campaign > effectively on our behalf. Again, I=92m taking a leading part in that with > the > forming of the Campaigning Aviators Network to coordinate volunteers in > lobbying the various bodies. It is noted that the individual mentioned > above > has not volunteered to join CAN. > 6) I have got much better things to do. I get married four weeks > tomorrow. I=92m moving house. I=92ve a plane to build. I=92ve a full-time > job. The > sort of attacks I=92ve seen on this list leave me wondering if I=92m just > wasting my time. I used to enjoy playing with steam engines, but that has > ended up somewhat on a back-burner (no pun intended), largely due to > commitments like the PFA and the Club. I=92m seriously considering getting > my > shovel out and polishing it ready for action again=85 > 7) Finally, and probably the most important point for individuals > wanting to get =91jobs=92 through Engineering =96 there is a system: so > use it! > There is no such thing as a =91variant option=92 with a mod. The process > is to > apply for a mod, on the correct forms, and in the correct manner. I for > one > do not believe it is arrogant for Engineering to ask a member to follow > the > process. It isn=92t hard for heaven=92s sake! On this subject, I and a > number of > other EC members have been putting in a lot of work exploring, among other > items, how we can reduce the cost to members. One answer that came out > clearly was to change the system so that those who do a decent job of > their > mods get them through sooner and more cheaply. That we are now working > towards. > > If, after reading this, anyone still thinks I=92m a tosser, please > advise > me > directly! I=92ll be listening, and will expect a strong justification. > > Regards, > Jeremy > > Jeremy Davey > Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA > Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC > Member =93If you can keep your head when all about you are losing > theirs, then it is > possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation.=94 > Tail done > Standard XS wings with mods underway > CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) > 1400 build hours to date > Intended fit: > Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop > Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms > > > ________________________________ Message 29 ____________________________________ Time: 12:08:52 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: PFA, Wilson, PFA Engineering, etc..... From: Gerry Holland --> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland > Jeremy, for those of us who speak "American" English, what exactly is a > "wanker", and a "tosser". If addressed as such I need to know whether I > should be insulted, or flattered. Insulted! It's hints that you practise self abuse!! ________________________________ Message 30 ____________________________________ Time: 12:22:53 PM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: PFA, Wilson, PFA Engineering, etc..... --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" :-) That depends on whether being a wanker or a tosser is something you aspire to! :-) Both refer to someone who engages in solo sexual activity. Regards, Jeremy Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation. Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1400 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Garry Subject: Re: Europa-List: PFA, Wilson, PFA Engineering, etc..... --> Europa-List message posted by: "Garry" Jeremy, for those of us who speak "American" English, what exactly is a "wanker", and a "tosser". If addressed as such I need to know whether I should be insulted, or flattered. Garry Stout ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: Europa-List: PFA, Wilson, PFA Engineering, etc..... > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > > Folks, > > I admit I=92m starting to get a bit pissed off here in Oxfordshire=85 > There seem > to be no end to the postings saying the PFA are a wunch of bankers, > Engineering are particular tossers, and I=92m a toe-rag (or worse), too, > for > being a part of that organisation. > > Can I just make a few points clear? > > 1) Well done to all those who actually got their finger out and > sent > one of the emails that got Graham Newby to change his mind. That is the > right way to achieve results. > 2) It seems to me that the PFA is now FULLY aware of the depth of > our > feelings about Wilson and the use of SFB images, the organisation HAS > listened. > Further, it is my honest belief that until a flood of emails landed in > Graham Newby=92s Inbox, he was just regarding it as one or two whingers. > Before anyone takes offence at that, please bear in mind that he (and I!) > are bombarded with emails, a significant proportion of which are from > whingers and go along the lines of: =93I bought a model F of my chosen > engine > when model H is the approved one, because it cost me three-and-sixpence > instead of fourteen grand, and PFA Engineering are tossers for not letting > me just bolt it on and go flying=94. It is probably worth noting that it > costs > the PFA a four-figure sum to undertake the work necessary to approve the > model F version =96 in order to save the one member 14000 =96 0/3/6 > pounds. > 3) The issue of the use of SFB is an issue that has been going on > some > time with the PFA. The Club has raised it, I=92ve raised it (and have been > lobbied continually =96 and politely - by Sean O=92Reilly about it), and > finally > the strength of feeling has become known. > 4) Engineering was in one hell of a mess operationally from about 2 > years ago until recently. It is still dragging itself out of there and > significant pressure and appropriate support is being given to the > management to get it out of that mess as soon as possible. I=92m working > my > bollocks off to resolve the problems and provide the sort of service that > I > think the PFA members deserve. Let me also make it quite clear that I have > made it absolutely clear to Engineering that I expect no favours for being > on the EC, and am therefore subject to just the same frustrations as > everyone else. I would not normally post this information publicly, but in > view of the attack on me by one contributor to this list yesterday, I > think > it=92s important to do so now. > 5) The PFA is not yet perfect, but it is all we=92ve got in the UK. > There > is a huge amount going on at European level and UK government level that > needs resolving NOW. The only viable way of ensuring that our voice is > heard > during this process is to ensure that the PFA is in a position to campaign > effectively on our behalf. Again, I=92m taking a leading part in that with > the > forming of the Campaigning Aviators Network to coordinate volunteers in > lobbying the various bodies. It is noted that the individual mentioned > above > has not volunteered to join CAN. > 6) I have got much better things to do. I get married four weeks > tomorrow. I=92m moving house. I=92ve a plane to build. I=92ve a full-time > job. The > sort of attacks I=92ve seen on this list leave me wondering if I=92m just > wasting my time. I used to enjoy playing with steam engines, but that has > ended up somewhat on a back-burner (no pun intended), largely due to > commitments like the PFA and the Club. I=92m seriously considering getting > my > shovel out and polishing it ready for action again=85 > 7) Finally, and probably the most important point for individuals > wanting to get =91jobs=92 through Engineering =96 there is a system: so > use it! > There is no such thing as a =91variant option=92 with a mod. The process > is to > apply for a mod, on the correct forms, and in the correct manner. I for > one > do not believe it is arrogant for Engineering to ask a member to follow > the > process. It isn=92t hard for heaven=92s sake! On this subject, I and a > number of > other EC members have been putting in a lot of work exploring, among other > items, how we can reduce the cost to members. One answer that came out > clearly was to change the system so that those who do a decent job of > their > mods get them through sooner and more cheaply. That we are now working > towards. > > If, after reading this, anyone still thinks I=92m a tosser, please advise > me > directly! I=92ll be listening, and will expect a strong justification. > > Regards, > Jeremy > > Jeremy Davey > Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA > Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative > PFA EC Member > =93If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it > is > possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation.=94 > Tail done > Standard XS wings with mods underway > CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) > 1400 build hours to date > Intended fit: > Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop > Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms > > > ________________________________ Message 31 ____________________________________ Time: 12:24:05 PM PST US From: "Bryan Allsop" Subject: Re: Europa-List: The price of Bacon Butties --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop" You don't need to wind him up. He' got a Jabareu thingy. Bryan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: RE: Europa-List: The price of Bacon Butties > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" > > > Are you suggesting Bob may have an issue with the "shhh" I will remember > that the next time I need to wind him up :-) > > Alan > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Bryan > Allsop > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: The price of Bacon Butties > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop" > --> > > Bugger! I thought I 'd got a bargain. > > Bryan > > PS Please dont mention EU fees on this site. It will precipitate > another > four pager from Bob H. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Fergus Kyle" > To: > Subject: Re: Europa-List: The price of Bacon Butties > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" >> >> | Sorry Fergus! The exchange rate may not be good, but my bacon butty >> | and coffee cost less than two pounds on Wednesday. >> | >> | Cheers, Dother Bryan. >> >> Bryan, >> The only way I can think that you paid but two quid is if >> you walked to it mon ami. If however you flew, there's gas, oil, >> insurance, PFA fees, wear and tear and perhaps EU fees yet to be >> levied. Don't forget the magazine with the landing fee pass. That's >> how the hundred dollar hamburger >> began.............. >> Cheers, Ferg >> If I took another coffee, I'd have to add the medical fees (parking, > gas, >> oil, w&t, etc) >> then there's that great favourite, the income tax you gave the > givvermint >> for the amount you spent....... it's all gone. >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 32 ____________________________________ Time: 12:28:32 PM PST US From: "Bryan Allsop" Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Venues --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop" Really sorry about that William. I did change it on Monday night, but the e-mails seem to have a delay in getting through sometimes. It certainly caused a problem with this one. How about you doing one next week? Cheers Bryan ----- Original Message ----- From: "William Mills" Subject: Re: Europa-List: The price of Bacon Butties > --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Mills" > > > Hi Bryan, > I'm afraid you changed the DOTH venue too late for Rick Morris and me. We > went to Panshanger as arranged and enjoyed a very pleasant and healthy > lunch. I can confirm, as previously reported by Paddy, that the > restaurant > and menu at Panshanger is very good and I have to say is much better than > at > Enstone. > How many went to Enstone? > Best wishes, > William > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bryan Allsop" > To: > Subject: Europa-List: The price of Bacon Butties > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop" > >> >> Sorry Fergus! The exchange rate may not be good, but my bacon butty and >> coffee cost less than two pounds on Wednesday. >> >> Cheers, Dother Bryan. >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Fergus Kyle" >> To: "EUROPALIST" >> Subject: Europa-List: off topic - PFA >> >> >> > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" >> > >> > Folks - >> > Those of you involved in the UK in the firm's writhings are >> > undoubtedly sincere in the intensity of your attitudes. One can sense > that >> > readily. >> > However for those of us (touched or not by Nameless' >> > indiscretions) who abide on the outer fringes - NA, SA, AFR, ASIA and >> > AUS - >> > the results are variously distant, comic, distressing or in one or two >> > cases, infuriating. Perhaps you can see the attitudes of several > hundred >> > fellow builders being affected by an essentially local event - as is >> > photgraphy for a national publication. >> > This is countered here by following the DOTH series for the >> > pleasure of seeing good friends enjoying their hundred-pound >> > butties........ >> > which distance may stifle here. >> > Nevertheless, please consider making your campaign on >> > another >> > URL, or at least on a lesser address list. This will serve to prevent >> > polarising a fairly cohesive group - to the detriment of us all. >> > E&OE >> > Cheers, Ferg >> > PS: It appears that PFA is an association which has legal and > procedural >> > powers which transcend the term. It is interesting to see the different >> > impressions various members reveal of the establishment. >> > >> > >> > >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 33 ____________________________________ Time: 12:41:02 PM PST US From: "Peter Rees" Subject: Re: Europa-List: New Subject needed badly --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" thank gawd for that - I thought it was just me! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: RE: Europa-List: New Subject needed badly > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" > > > No problem Jeff, just a word of advise though. Don't fit them until you > have fully mastered the landing technique on your particular field as > you will surely damage them if you get things a bit fast and bounce down > the runway a couple of times AS EVERYONE DOES initially (well all those > who are prepared to admit it anyway), also you need to make sure > everything is working well and that's much easier to check with the > pants removed. > Cheers > > Alan > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JEFF > ROBERTS > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: New Subject needed badly > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS > > Definitely worth leaving them on. > Thanks Alan > Jeff > > On May 27, 2005, at 10:37 AM, Alan Burrows wrote: > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" >> >> >> Geoff I fly off grass fairly regularly with the pants fitted and have >> never had a problem. I simply take them off every few months to check >> there is no mud or grass build up, which there never is. So I don't >> think you will have a problem on a smooth grass strip. Incidentally I >> have been flying without them on my last couple of flights and have >> noticed about a 10kt loss of speed for the same power settings. >> >> Alan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JEFF >> ROBERTS >> To: europa-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Europa-List: New Subject needed badly >> >> >> --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS >> >> If we can take the conversation back to building and flying Europas >> for a moment I would like to hear from anyone flying a tri-gear off >> grass. Could you tell me the hight of the bottom of the pant from the >> floor when parked on asphalt. It looks like I'll be stationed on a >> nice smooth 2600 foot grass strip south of Nashville when this bird is > >> flying. Should I just leave them off and deal with the loss of speed? >> Any comments or answers welcome. >> >> Jeff >> A258 >> Panel done, primed and waiting for paint. >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 34 ____________________________________ Time: 12:52:25 PM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Re: Europa-List: New Subject needed badly --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" Perhaps more to the point (given that even medium length grass doesn't seem to affect spat functionality either) is to ensure that if the tyre (tire) goes flat the spat is not damaged . Duncan Mcf. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gerry Holland" Subject: Re: Europa-List: New Subject needed badly > --> Europa-List message posted by: Gerry Holland > > Jeff > > The bottom of Main Wheel Spats are 2.5 inches from hard surface. > > The Nose Wheel Spat is 3.0 inches. My tire pressures are probably slightly > below 30 psi but it's a reasonable clearance. > > Regards > > Gerry > > > ________________________________ Message 35 ____________________________________ Time: 12:53:51 PM PST US From: "Peter Rees" Subject: Fw: Europa-List: New Subject needed badly --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees" thank gawd for that - I thought it was just me! > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Alan Burrows" > To: > Sent: Friday, May 27, 2005 5:37 PM > Subject: RE: Europa-List: New Subject needed badly > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" >> >> >> No problem Jeff, just a word of advise though. Don't fit them until you >> have fully mastered the landing technique on your particular field as >> you will surely damage them if you get things a bit fast and bounce down >> the runway a couple of times AS EVERYONE DOES initially (well all those >> who are prepared to admit it anyway), also you need to make sure >> everything is working well and that's much easier to check with the >> pants removed. >> Cheers >> >> Alan >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JEFF >> ROBERTS >> To: europa-list@matronics.com >> Subject: Re: Europa-List: New Subject needed badly >> >> >> --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS >> >> Definitely worth leaving them on. >> Thanks Alan >> Jeff >> >> On May 27, 2005, at 10:37 AM, Alan Burrows wrote: >> >>> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" >>> >>> >>> Geoff I fly off grass fairly regularly with the pants fitted and have >>> never had a problem. I simply take them off every few months to check >>> there is no mud or grass build up, which there never is. So I don't >>> think you will have a problem on a smooth grass strip. Incidentally I >>> have been flying without them on my last couple of flights and have >>> noticed about a 10kt loss of speed for the same power settings. >>> >>> Alan >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com >>> [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of JEFF >>> ROBERTS >>> To: europa-list@matronics.com >>> Subject: Europa-List: New Subject needed badly >>> >>> >>> --> Europa-List message posted by: JEFF ROBERTS >>> >>> If we can take the conversation back to building and flying Europas >>> for a moment I would like to hear from anyone flying a tri-gear off >>> grass. Could you tell me the hight of the bottom of the pant from the >>> floor when parked on asphalt. It looks like I'll be stationed on a >>> nice smooth 2600 foot grass strip south of Nashville when this bird is >> >>> flying. Should I just leave them off and deal with the loss of speed? >>> Any comments or answers welcome. >>> >>> Jeff >>> A258 >>> Panel done, primed and waiting for paint. >>> >>> >> >> >> >> >> >> > ________________________________ Message 36 ____________________________________ Time: 05:05:50 PM PST US From: "Garry" Subject: Re: Europa-List: PFA, Wilson, PFA Engineering, etc..... --> Europa-List message posted by: "Garry" Thanks for the clarification! Garry ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List: PFA, Wilson, PFA Engineering, etc..... > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" > > :-) That depends on whether being a wanker or a tosser is something you > aspire to! :-) > > Both refer to someone who engages in solo sexual activity. > > Regards, > Jeremy > > Jeremy Davey > Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA > Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative > PFA EC Member > If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is > possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation. > Tail done > Standard XS wings with mods underway > CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) > 1400 build hours to date > Intended fit: > Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop > Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms > > > -----Original Message----- > From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com > [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Garry > To: europa-list@matronics.com > Subject: Re: Europa-List: PFA, Wilson, PFA Engineering, etc..... > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Garry" > > Jeremy, for those of us who speak "American" English, what exactly is a > "wanker", and a "tosser". If addressed as such I need to know whether I > should be insulted, or flattered. > > Garry Stout > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeremy Davey" > To: > Subject: Europa-List: PFA, Wilson, PFA Engineering, etc..... > > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" >> >> Folks, >> >> I admit I=92m starting to get a bit pissed off here in Oxfordshire=85 >> There seem >> to be no end to the postings saying the PFA are a wunch of bankers, >> Engineering are particular tossers, and I=92m a toe-rag (or worse), too, >> for >> being a part of that organisation. >> >> Can I just make a few points clear? >> >> 1) Well done to all those who actually got their finger out and >> sent >> one of the emails that got Graham Newby to change his mind. That is the >> right way to achieve results. >> 2) It seems to me that the PFA is now FULLY aware of the depth of >> our >> feelings about Wilson and the use of SFB images, the organisation HAS >> listened. >> Further, it is my honest belief that until a flood of emails landed in >> Graham Newby=92s Inbox, he was just regarding it as one or two whingers. >> Before anyone takes offence at that, please bear in mind that he (and I!) >> are bombarded with emails, a significant proportion of which are from >> whingers and go along the lines of: =93I bought a model F of my chosen >> engine >> when model H is the approved one, because it cost me three-and-sixpence >> instead of fourteen grand, and PFA Engineering are tossers for not >> letting >> me just bolt it on and go flying=94. It is probably worth noting that it >> costs >> the PFA a four-figure sum to undertake the work necessary to approve the >> model F version =96 in order to save the one member 14000 =96 0/3/6 >> pounds. >> 3) The issue of the use of SFB is an issue that has been going on >> some >> time with the PFA. The Club has raised it, I=92ve raised it (and have >> been >> lobbied continually =96 and politely - by Sean O=92Reilly about it), and >> finally >> the strength of feeling has become known. >> 4) Engineering was in one hell of a mess operationally from about >> 2 >> years ago until recently. It is still dragging itself out of there and >> significant pressure and appropriate support is being given to the >> management to get it out of that mess as soon as possible. I=92m working >> my >> bollocks off to resolve the problems and provide the sort of service that >> I >> think the PFA members deserve. Let me also make it quite clear that I >> have >> made it absolutely clear to Engineering that I expect no favours for >> being >> on the EC, and am therefore subject to just the same frustrations as >> everyone else. I would not normally post this information publicly, but >> in >> view of the attack on me by one contributor to this list yesterday, I >> think >> it=92s important to do so now. >> 5) The PFA is not yet perfect, but it is all we=92ve got in the >> UK. > >> There >> is a huge amount going on at European level and UK government level that >> needs resolving NOW. The only viable way of ensuring that our voice is >> heard >> during this process is to ensure that the PFA is in a position to >> campaign >> effectively on our behalf. Again, I=92m taking a leading part in that >> with > >> the >> forming of the Campaigning Aviators Network to coordinate volunteers in >> lobbying the various bodies. It is noted that the individual mentioned >> above >> has not volunteered to join CAN. >> 6) I have got much better things to do. I get married four weeks >> tomorrow. I=92m moving house. I=92ve a plane to build. I=92ve a full-time >> job. The >> sort of attacks I=92ve seen on this list leave me wondering if I=92m just >> wasting my time. I used to enjoy playing with steam engines, but that has >> ended up somewhat on a back-burner (no pun intended), largely due to >> commitments like the PFA and the Club. I=92m seriously considering >> getting > >> my >> shovel out and polishing it ready for action again=85 >> 7) Finally, and probably the most important point for individuals >> wanting to get =91jobs=92 through Engineering =96 there is a system: so >> use it! >> There is no such thing as a =91variant option=92 with a mod. The process >> is to >> apply for a mod, on the correct forms, and in the correct manner. I for >> one >> do not believe it is arrogant for Engineering to ask a member to follow >> the >> process. It isn=92t hard for heaven=92s sake! On this subject, I and a >> number of >> other EC members have been putting in a lot of work exploring, among >> other >> items, how we can reduce the cost to members. One answer that came out >> clearly was to change the system so that those who do a decent job of >> their >> mods get them through sooner and more cheaply. That we are now working >> towards. >> >> If, after reading this, anyone still thinks I=92m a tosser, please advise >> me >> directly! I=92ll be listening, and will expect a strong justification. >> >> Regards, >> Jeremy >> >> Jeremy Davey >> Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA >> Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative >> PFA EC Member >> =93If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then >> it > >> is >> possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation.=94 >> Tail done >> Standard XS wings with mods underway >> CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) >> 1400 build hours to date >> Intended fit: >> Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop >> Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms >> >> >> > > > ________________________________ Message 37 ____________________________________ Time: 06:02:37 PM PST US From: "Steve Crimm" Subject: Europa-List:He who shall not be named... --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Crimm" Flight, I just received my July 2005 issue of Kitplanes, www.kitplanes.com if you have an online subscription, and the cover picture and feature article is a comparison between the Europa and Liberty XL. Well guess who supplied the photos...Well you guessed it KW. So the terror has crossed the pond, and quite quickly I might add. When it rains it pours. Steve ________________________________ Message 38 ____________________________________ Time: 10:58:22 PM PST US From: "Jeremy Davey" Subject: RE: Europa-List:He who shall not be named... --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jeremy Davey" OK, chaps, pens out! Steady... aim... fire! :-) Jeremy Davey Europa Monowheel 537M G-EZZA Europa Club Vice-Chairman, Webmaster, PFA NC Representative PFA EC Member If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, then it is possible you haven't grasped the severity of the situation. Tail done Standard XS wings with mods underway CM installed in fuse (with airbrakes fittings) 1400 build hours to date Intended fit: Rotax 914 turbo, Airmaster CS fully-feathering prop Lots of lights, buttons, switches, gizmos, and alarms -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Steve Crimm Subject: Europa-List:He who shall not be named... --> Europa-List message posted by: "Steve Crimm" Flight, I just received my July 2005 issue of Kitplanes, www.kitplanes.com if you have an online subscription, and the cover picture and feature article is a comparison between the Europa and Liberty XL. Well guess who supplied the photos...Well you guessed it KW. So the terror has crossed the pond, and quite quickly I might add. When it rains it pours. Steve