---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 06/15/05: 8 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 02:17 AM - Re: Voltage Regulator Problem? (Jos Okhuijsen) 2. 06:06 AM - Re: Setting wing incidence (William Daniell) 3. 07:36 AM - Setting wing incidence (Graham Singleton) 4. 07:58 AM - Re: Setting wing incidence (Stephan Cassel) 5. 08:23 AM - Re: Setting wing incidence (Stephan Cassel) 6. 09:45 AM - Re: Setting wing incidence (William Daniell) 7. 09:45 AM - Re: Setting wing incidence (William Daniell) 8. 11:55 PM - Re: Trim indication when transmitting (Gavin & Anne) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 02:17:56 AM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Voltage Regulator Problem? From: "Jos Okhuijsen" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jos Okhuijsen" Which confirms my strong opinion that add ons, like a crowbar induce extra risks. Regulators are more reliable then regulator/crowbar combinations. I further strongly disagree that keeping resetting any CB is harmless. There are warnings about this in any "learn to fly" book. In this case every time the cb blows, it has hit the circuit with some large current. This reocurrent short circuit will harm every component involved, and could bring further harm, leading to disaster. Regards, Jos Okhuijsen > mine and remembered we had trouble with this before and he added a > capacitor in > my panel somewhere which cured it - until I replaced my radio and > transponder > recently. > > He suspects my new radio and/or transponder (probably the latter) is > causing > some spiking and wants to upgrade/modify my crowbar. Unfortunately it is > behind the panel so it will be a while before I feel inclined to pull > everything > out again. > > He said it would not do any harm to keep resetting it if it settles down > after a while. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 06:06:58 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Setting wing incidence FILETIME=[1B7EF010:01C571AA] --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" Stephan OK that makes sense - So having closed the wing you then have to take off the ailerons to post-cure them - I assume that is it possible to reattach them (albeit a bit fiddly) and specifically the aileron link rod through the inspection hole?? Or did you post cure and finish your ailerons prior to closing the wing? Will -----Original Message----- From: William Daniell [mailto:wdaniell@etb.net.co] Subject: RE: Europa-List: Setting wing incidence Thanks - Will -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stephan Cassel Subject: RE: Europa-List: Setting wing incidence --> Europa-List message posted by: "Stephan Cassel" Hi Will, It sounds risky. I know builders that have done it without the upper skin but then you need to build up exactly same height in order to "simulate" the skin, if you are using the template. I did set the wing incidence before the uni reinforcing plies. The template sits more accurate on the wing without uni. Regards, Stephan #556 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Subject: Europa-List: Setting wing incidence --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" My next task is to set the wing incidence. Can one do this with the wings still open? - in other words, without the upper surface and the uni reinforcing plies? Any tips/bright ideas as to how to make this task easier... Will Daniell 238 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of p-a.austin@xtra.co.nz Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 06/13/05 --> Europa-List message posted by: > Since the start of project, was using supermarket plastic mixing cups. Smooth > walls and flat bottoms. > > I can't find them anymore. Use beer cans, when empty flush out, run a sharp knife round the middle leave to dry.Instant one shot mixing cup, ok a bit rough edged can clean up with scissors if you want. To get you started get in a batch of your favourite brew and some mates around drinking and telling lies to each other, soon have a ready pile. This approach allows you to argue successfully that you are saving heaps of money by not squandering it on purpose made mixing cups. Cheers. ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 07:36:19 AM PST US From: Graham Singleton Subject: Europa-List: Setting wing incidence --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton --> Europa-List message posted by: "Stephan Cassel" Hi Will, It sounds risky. I know builders that have done it without the upper skin but then you need to build up exactly same height in order to "simulate" the skin, if you are using the template. I did set the wing incidence before the uni reinforcing plies. The template sits more accurate on the wing without uni. Stephan Will, and everyone Don't forget the incidence of the wings is more critical outboard than it is at the root. Set it up on the port wing and let cure as described but then set up the second wing to be identical incidence at the flap/aileron junction. This will help to avoid any built in roll tendency Graham ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 07:58:21 AM PST US From: "Stephan Cassel" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Setting wing incidence --> Europa-List message posted by: "Stephan Cassel" Hi Will, I post cured flaps, ailerons, ruder and tail plane after the wing closing. Attach the link rod wing side before closing. The link rod will snap on after the aileron is attached. Check the movement of link rod before closing so this can be achieved. It is very easy to attach/detach the aileron after upper skin is on. In fact I would recommend taking them off. It is much easier to work the wing/fuselage without them. This is my technique how to install the aileron: Use strings, diameter of 1 mm or so, one for each hinge. At the end of each string you attach a small washer (not too heavy). Pull the string through hinge and the wing surface. Now, when you tighten the string hinge will get in position and you can screw in the bolts. You need three hands for this and the third hand is your mouth. You put the string in the mouth and tighten it by moving your head :-) It sound stupid, and probably looks stupid, but it works very well after some practice Good luck Stephan #556 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Subject: RE: Europa-List: Setting wing incidence --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" Stephan OK that makes sense - So having closed the wing you then have to take off the ailerons to post-cure them - I assume that is it possible to reattach them (albeit a bit fiddly) and specifically the aileron link rod through the inspection hole?? Or did you post cure and finish your ailerons prior to closing the wing? Will -----Original Message----- From: William Daniell [mailto:wdaniell@etb.net.co] Subject: RE: Europa-List: Setting wing incidence Thanks - Will -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stephan Cassel Subject: RE: Europa-List: Setting wing incidence --> Europa-List message posted by: "Stephan Cassel" Hi Will, It sounds risky. I know builders that have done it without the upper skin but then you need to build up exactly same height in order to "simulate" the skin, if you are using the template. I did set the wing incidence before the uni reinforcing plies. The template sits more accurate on the wing without uni. Regards, Stephan #556 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Subject: Europa-List: Setting wing incidence --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" My next task is to set the wing incidence. Can one do this with the wings still open? - in other words, without the upper surface and the uni reinforcing plies? Any tips/bright ideas as to how to make this task easier... Will Daniell 238 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of p-a.austin@xtra.co.nz Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 06/13/05 --> Europa-List message posted by: > Since the start of project, was using supermarket plastic mixing cups. Smooth > walls and flat bottoms. > > I can't find them anymore. Use beer cans, when empty flush out, run a sharp knife round the middle leave to dry.Instant one shot mixing cup, ok a bit rough edged can clean up with scissors if you want. To get you started get in a batch of your favourite brew and some mates around drinking and telling lies to each other, soon have a ready pile. This approach allows you to argue successfully that you are saving heaps of money by not squandering it on purpose made mixing cups. Cheers. ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:23:10 AM PST US From: "Stephan Cassel" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Setting wing incidence --> Europa-List message posted by: "Stephan Cassel" Hi Graham, You are of course right. I did check the incidence at the position (more or less) that you describe (I read your tips in the "Hints and Tips") and it shows same reading on both wings. But I measured the thickness at the same position and they were different: about 8 mm or so. I.e. the wings are not 100% symmetric. My conclusion was: do it per manual as correct as possible and do the "Graham check" before mixing the Araldite 420. If God is on my side it will work ok. Otherwise I have to trim. Regards, Stephan -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham Singleton Subject: Europa-List: Setting wing incidence --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton --> Europa-List message posted by: "Stephan Cassel" Hi Will, It sounds risky. I know builders that have done it without the upper skin but then you need to build up exactly same height in order to "simulate" the skin, if you are using the template. I did set the wing incidence before the uni reinforcing plies. The template sits more accurate on the wing without uni. Stephan Will, and everyone Don't forget the incidence of the wings is more critical outboard than it is at the root. Set it up on the port wing and let cure as described but then set up the second wing to be identical incidence at the flap/aileron junction. This will help to avoid any built in roll tendency Graham ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:45:11 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Setting wing incidence FILETIME=[40093E80:01C571C9] --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" Au contraire - sounds very practical Thanks -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stephan Cassel Subject: RE: Europa-List: Setting wing incidence --> Europa-List message posted by: "Stephan Cassel" Hi Will, I post cured flaps, ailerons, ruder and tail plane after the wing closing. Attach the link rod wing side before closing. The link rod will snap on after the aileron is attached. Check the movement of link rod before closing so this can be achieved. It is very easy to attach/detach the aileron after upper skin is on. In fact I would recommend taking them off. It is much easier to work the wing/fuselage without them. This is my technique how to install the aileron: Use strings, diameter of 1 mm or so, one for each hinge. At the end of each string you attach a small washer (not too heavy). Pull the string through hinge and the wing surface. Now, when you tighten the string hinge will get in position and you can screw in the bolts. You need three hands for this and the third hand is your mouth. You put the string in the mouth and tighten it by moving your head :-) It sound stupid, and probably looks stupid, but it works very well after some practice Good luck Stephan #556 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Subject: RE: Europa-List: Setting wing incidence --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" Stephan OK that makes sense - So having closed the wing you then have to take off the ailerons to post-cure them - I assume that is it possible to reattach them (albeit a bit fiddly) and specifically the aileron link rod through the inspection hole?? Or did you post cure and finish your ailerons prior to closing the wing? Will -----Original Message----- From: William Daniell [mailto:wdaniell@etb.net.co] Subject: RE: Europa-List: Setting wing incidence Thanks - Will -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stephan Cassel Subject: RE: Europa-List: Setting wing incidence --> Europa-List message posted by: "Stephan Cassel" Hi Will, It sounds risky. I know builders that have done it without the upper skin but then you need to build up exactly same height in order to "simulate" the skin, if you are using the template. I did set the wing incidence before the uni reinforcing plies. The template sits more accurate on the wing without uni. Regards, Stephan #556 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of William Daniell Subject: Europa-List: Setting wing incidence --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" My next task is to set the wing incidence. Can one do this with the wings still open? - in other words, without the upper surface and the uni reinforcing plies? Any tips/bright ideas as to how to make this task easier... Will Daniell 238 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of p-a.austin@xtra.co.nz Subject: Europa-List: Re: Europa-List Digest: 18 Msgs - 06/13/05 --> Europa-List message posted by: > Since the start of project, was using supermarket plastic mixing cups. Smooth > walls and flat bottoms. > > I can't find them anymore. Use beer cans, when empty flush out, run a sharp knife round the middle leave to dry.Instant one shot mixing cup, ok a bit rough edged can clean up with scissors if you want. To get you started get in a batch of your favourite brew and some mates around drinking and telling lies to each other, soon have a ready pile. This approach allows you to argue successfully that you are saving heaps of money by not squandering it on purpose made mixing cups. Cheers. ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:45:11 AM PST US From: "William Daniell" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Setting wing incidence FILETIME=[BE207310:01C571C9] --> Europa-List message posted by: "William Daniell" Graham Did make another template for the position described? Or how did you get the angle at this point? Will -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Stephan Cassel Subject: RE: Europa-List: Setting wing incidence --> Europa-List message posted by: "Stephan Cassel" Hi Graham, You are of course right. I did check the incidence at the position (more or less) that you describe (I read your tips in the "Hints and Tips") and it shows same reading on both wings. But I measured the thickness at the same position and they were different: about 8 mm or so. I.e. the wings are not 100% symmetric. My conclusion was: do it per manual as correct as possible and do the "Graham check" before mixing the Araldite 420. If God is on my side it will work ok. Otherwise I have to trim. Regards, Stephan -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Graham Singleton Subject: Europa-List: Setting wing incidence --> Europa-List message posted by: Graham Singleton --> Europa-List message posted by: "Stephan Cassel" Hi Will, It sounds risky. I know builders that have done it without the upper skin but then you need to build up exactly same height in order to "simulate" the skin, if you are using the template. I did set the wing incidence before the uni reinforcing plies. The template sits more accurate on the wing without uni. Stephan Will, and everyone Don't forget the incidence of the wings is more critical outboard than it is at the root. Set it up on the port wing and let cure as described but then set up the second wing to be identical incidence at the flap/aileron junction. This will help to avoid any built in roll tendency Graham ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:55:34 PM PST US From: "Gavin & Anne" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Trim indication when transmitting --> Europa-List message posted by: "Gavin & Anne" Nev.....you are correct, when separated the problem is no more. So am going to run the aerial cable up through the wheel bay, the transponder cable already is in there. Ira, thanks for your comments as well Gavin Lee #355 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of NevEyre@aol.com Subject: Re: Europa-List: Trim indication when transmitting --> Europa-List message posted by: NevEyre@aol.com Hi, The definate answer is the fact you have the trim wires and Com lead running together, split them so they are as far apart as you can get them. Chances are, you will also be able to hear the trim servo running through your headset ? Cheers, Nev. -- --