---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Thu 06/23/05: 16 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:54 AM - Re: TAS Calculations (Kingsley Hurst) 2. 12:57 AM - Re: TAS Calculations (Gilles Thesee) 3. 04:10 AM - Re: TAS Calculations (Rowland Carson) 4. 06:50 AM - Filling, Sending, Painting the beast. (Jacques Point) 5. 07:52 AM - Re: Filling, Sending, Painting the beast. (Paul Boulet) 6. 08:42 AM - Re: Tie-Down (Richard Iddon) 7. 10:37 AM - Re: Tie-Down (Sven den Boer) 8. 11:06 AM - Re: TAS Calculations (Gilles Thesee) 9. 11:20 AM - Re: exhaust blackening and tyre wear (Richard Iddon) 10. 01:11 PM - Re: Tie-Down (Terry Seaver (terrys)) 11. 02:57 PM - Fw: Re: TAS Calculations (Rowland Carson) 12. 03:22 PM - Re: Re: TAS Calculations (Rob Housman) 13. 05:00 PM - Re: Re: TAS Calculations (Paul McAllister) 14. 07:33 PM - New Future Europa Pilot (MJKTuck@cs.com) 15. 08:23 PM - Re: Filling, Sending, Painting the beast. (Jacques.POINT@total.com) 16. 08:47 PM - Re: Tie-Down (N55XS) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:54:15 AM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: RE: Europa-List: TAS Calculations --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" > Kingsley... > Is it not obvious? The extra speed obtained south bound is because he his > going down hill? Very obvious now that you have pointed it out thanks Brian. WHY couldn't I see that ?? s'pose it's all very well for you blokes being up the right way in the Northern Hemisphere to have clear minds. You should try living upside down all the time like we have to mate, the blood tends to rush to the head occasionally ! Definitely DO NOT ARCHIVE Cheers KH ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 12:57:18 AM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: TAS Calculations --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee > >Hi all, > >I thought I would take my 914 up to 10,000 feet and run it at 100% power to see if it would do the mythical 200 mph. Here are the data I recorded. > >OAT 16 c >10,000' @ 29.92 > >North GPS 129 knots >South GPS 175 knots >East GPS 167 knots >West GPS 140 knots > > >I plugged these numbers into the 4 Axis IAS spread sheet that I got from the Europa club and it tells me that the TAS is 178 knots with a density altitude of 12,310', but..... this is where I get confused. None of my ground speeds are 178 knots, so am I misunderstanding something here, or are the calculations in the spread sheet incorrect. > > > Paul, Try Doug Gray's method, the spreadsheet is far clearer and the calculation are accurate. And you don't need to steer special headings : just keep your nose pointed to the same spot on the horizon and read the track on the GPS. http://www.kilohotel.com/rv8/rvlinks/doug_gray/TASCALC.ZIP I run your numbers with it and it yieds a mean TAS of 154 kt , with variations between 152 and 156 kt according which three runs I consider. The wind aloft seems to be between 25 and 29 kt for a direction between 325 and 335. Your measurements seem reasonably consistent. With our Rotax 914 MCR 4S four seater we averaged 157 kt at FL 120 on a cold day in february. The size of the two airplanes is quite similar. These are quite respectable airspeeds. In my opinion, 200 mph is not a realistic number with an airplane this size, shape and wing area. Hope this helps, Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:10:33 AM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: Re: Europa-List: TAS Calculations --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson At 2005-06-22 23:21 -0500 Paul McAllister wrote: >I thought I would take my 914 up to 10,000 feet and run it at 100% >power to see if it would do the mythical 200 mph. Here are the data >I recorded. > >OAT 16 c >10,000' @ 29.92 > >North GPS 129 knots >South GPS 175 knots >East GPS 167 knots >West GPS 140 knots > > >I plugged these numbers into the 4 Axis IAS spread sheet that I got >from the Europa club and it tells me that the TAS is 178 knots with >a density altitude of 12,310', but..... this is where I get >confused. None of my ground speeds are 178 knots, so am I >misunderstanding something here, or are the calculations in the >spread sheet incorrect. Paul - as there are several TAS-from-GPS spreadsheets to choose from on the Europa Club CD, I'm assuming from your description that you are using the one called "gps-tas by trk.xls", that I derived from Popular Flying articles published 1998 (since all the others ask for only 3 observations). It requires that the aircraft is flown on TRACKS (NOT headings) of N, E, S & W, and the GPS groundspeed recorded for each. It is also of interest to record the indicated airspeed (IAS), which should of course be THE SAME for all 4 tracks, and the headings steered to achieve the required tracks. For true airspeed, the pressure altitude and outside air temperature should be recorded as you have done. It's important for most of these calculations that speeds are all in the same units (kt, mph, kph) and that bearings are all referred to the same datum (True or Magnetic). I plugged your numbers into the "PF" spreadsheet (NB important to enter them in the right order for this file!) and got a mean airspeed of 153.95 with a range of 3.34 between the highest and lowest estimates. The wind was 26.85 at 330. According to my (mechanical) E-6B computer, a TAS of 154kt would give an IAS of about 127.5kt at your observed height & temperature. Was that the IAS you observed? The E-6B also offers a density altitude of about 12300. Note that there is no reason for any of the groundspeeds to be the same as your TAS, unless you are flying in absolutely nil wind. And, to get back to the question first asked, 154kt is about 177mph so, yes, the 200mph seems to remain in the realm of fable! I just looked again at the files available on the Club CD and observed that the ones contributed by Dave Bosomworth do include stuff for RAS, TAS & density altitude, so I now realise you have probably been using that version. I have not personally checked those files (although no-one else has complained so far!) so will have to refer you to Dave for an authoritative opinion. As far as I know, he does not at present inhabit this list, so I will copy this message to him. regards Rowland -- | Rowland Carson Europa Club Membership Secretary - email for info! | Europa 435 G-ROWI (750 hours building) PFA #16532 | e-mail website ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 06:50:23 AM PST US Subject: Europa-List: Filling, Sending, Painting the beast. From: "Jacques Point" 1.64 REPLY_TO_EMPTY Reply-To: is empty 0.10 TO_EMPTY To: is empty --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jacques Point" Hi everybody! I am about to start the last operation on Mono 148: filling, sanding, painting. It seems that the system proposed by Europa (for filling) is hard to sand. Poly-Fiber seems more easy to handle. I would like to have feed-back from you, so to have a better idea to make my choice. Thanks in advance Jacques Mono # 148 with subaru EJ22 & PSRU. ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 07:52:47 AM PST US From: Paul Boulet Subject: Re: Europa-List: Filling, Sending, Painting the beast. --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Boulet Hi Jacques; May I suggest you search the archives? This subject has been covered many, many times. The link is http://www.geocities.com/asarangan/europa_forum.html Best of luck to you... I spent many hours sanding Paul Boulet, N914PB XS Monowheel researching conversion to tri gear --- Jacques Point wrote: > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jacques Point" > > > Hi everybody! > I am about to start the last operation on Mono 148: > filling, sanding, painting. > It seems that the system proposed by Europa (for > filling) is hard to sand. Poly-Fiber seems more easy > to handle. I would like to have feed-back from you, > so to have a better idea to make my choice. > Thanks in advance > > Jacques > Mono # 148 with subaru EJ22 & PSRU. > ---------------- > Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ > > > > browse > Subscriptions page, > FAQ, > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 08:42:04 AM PST US From: "Richard Iddon" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tie-Down --> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard Iddon" The 'Eyebolts' on N55XS on the web site look good but my tri gear has fairings on the flap hinges. Any bright idea's on how to add wing tie downs to this configuration? Richard Iddon G-RIXS Matthew Carpenter wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: Matthew Carpenter ................ >How have you guys tied down the wings without eye bolts? Matt, Check out my September 30 entry at my build site for a simple and effective wing tie down system... http://www.n55xs.com -- Jeff - N55XS Waiting on the FAA ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:37:47 AM PST US From: "Sven den Boer" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tie-Down --> Europa-List message posted by: "Sven den Boer" I tried this in combination with ailerlocks from Spruce. Cheers Sven den Boer ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Iddon" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tie-Down > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard Iddon" > > The 'Eyebolts' on N55XS on the web site look good but my tri gear has > fairings on the flap hinges. Any bright idea's on how to add wing tie > downs to this configuration? > > Richard Iddon G-RIXS > > Matthew Carpenter wrote: > > >--> Europa-List message posted by: Matthew Carpenter > > ................ > >How have you guys tied down the wings without eye bolts? > Matt, > > Check out my September 30 entry at my build site for a simple and > effective wing tie down system... > http://www.n55xs.com > > -- > Jeff - N55XS > Waiting on the FAA > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 11:06:28 AM PST US From: Gilles Thesee Subject: Re: Europa-List: TAS Calculations --> Europa-List message posted by: Gilles Thesee >OAT 16 c >10,000' @ 29.92 > >North GPS 129 knots >South GPS 175 knots >East GPS 167 knots >West GPS 140 knots > > >I plugged these numbers into the 4 Axis IAS spread sheet that I got from the Europa club and it tells me that the TAS is 178 knots with a density altitude of 12,310', but..... this is where I get confused. None of my ground speeds are 178 knots, so am I misunderstanding something here, or are the calculations in the spread sheet incorrect. > > > Paul and all, It just occured to me that your spreadsheet IS right ! It's just mph, NOT knots. 177 mph is just 154 knots, quite consistent with the numbers you gave us. The average wind was 26 kt/330. By the way don't expect your figures to be exact within 0.5 or 1 knots. Plus or minus 2 knots is a more reasonable estimate. Regards, Gilles Thesee Grenoble, France ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 11:20:27 AM PST US From: "Richard Iddon" Subject: RE: Europa-List: exhaust blackening and tyre wear --> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard Iddon" Mark, Further to your reply to my question about tyres last year (copied below), I am just about ready for a new set of tyres for G-RIXS and wondered how your Good Year's were getting on? Hope you are well and getting lots of flying in. Regards. Richard. -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mark Burton Subject: Re: Europa-List: exhaust blackening and tyre wear --> Europa-List message posted by: Mark Burton Richard, Uneven main gear tyre wear is very common on Europa tri-gears. I have heard it said that this is due to bad alignment of the main gear axles. That may be true but my belief is that the main gear tyres supplied by Europa are not suitable for the aircraft when it is used on tarmac (or at all) due to their very soft compound and lack of rigidity. (just my opinion, I have no expertise in tyres). Having worn out a set of main gear tyres in no time at all, I decided to fit something better. G-NEAT is now fitted with Goodyear FlightCustom III 6 ply tyres (inflated to 30PSI) and they have now been used for 36 (flight) hours with very little sign of wear. This has included a lot of taxying on tarmac. Even though they are twice the price of the other tyres, I am confident that they will provide much better value. One caveat, they have a much "squarer" profile and I am told that it is possible that they will foul the wheel spat cutouts. Regards, Mark == == == == ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:11:11 PM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tie-Down From: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Terry Seaver (terrys)" We used the bolt holding on the outboard flap fairing. We increased the bolt size to the next size up and left it longer by about 1/2 inch, allowing excess thread showing outside the nut. Screw-on rings were purchased from McMaster-Carr, providing a suitable location for tie down ropes. Although our plane is a Monowheel with outriggers, I believe the tri-gear still has the beefed up hinge mount at the outboard flap hinge, which makes a pretty solid place for tie downs. Regards, Terry Seaver A135 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Richard Iddon Subject: RE: Europa-List: Tie-Down --> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard Iddon" The 'Eyebolts' on N55XS on the web site look good but my tri gear has fairings on the flap hinges. Any bright idea's on how to add wing tie downs to this configuration? Richard Iddon G-RIXS Matthew Carpenter wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: Matthew Carpenter ................ >How have you guys tied down the wings without eye bolts? Matt, Check out my September 30 entry at my build site for a simple and effective wing tie down system... http://www.n55xs.com -- Jeff - N55XS Waiting on the FAA ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:57:26 PM PST US From: Rowland Carson Subject: Fwd: Re: Europa-List: TAS Calculations --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson Following forwarded from Dave Bosomworth: >Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:25:02 -0400 >From: DaveBuzz@aol.com >To: rowil@clara.net (Rowland Carson), paul.mcallister@qia.net >Subject: Re: Europa-List: TAS Calculations > >Hello Paul, Rowland, > Sorry, I'm off the email list due to holidays and courses - got to >manage the email somehow! Rowland, thanks for forwarding Paul's >query. > Paul, The spreadsheet maybe doesn't make it clear, but the temp >needs to be in Celsius. At first glance I suspect that +16 is >Farenheit? If so, then changing it to approx -8C (v. rough >calculation!) gives: >TAS 170Kt >DA 9670ft >Which would fit in with your figures. > What I would really like to know is what your indicated airspeed >was showing. > > Please let me know if this fixes the problem. >Many thanks, >dave Apologies - although it doesn't affect the spreadsheet I first quoted (which doesn't attempt to relate TAS & IAS) in my previous posting, I completely forgot that the former colonies are still using the old imperial units of temperature - I guess the sun has not yet set on the british empire .... regards Rowland -- | Wilma & Rowland Carson | ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:22:37 PM PST US From: "Rob Housman" Subject: RE: Re: Europa-List: TAS Calculations --> Europa-List message posted by: "Rob Housman" Not an unreasonable assumption, Rowland, but in this former colony (of Spain, that is) aviation WX includes temperature and dew point reported in degrees Celsius. For example... Approximate Time: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 22:20:14 UTC METARs for KSNA KSNA 232153Z 22008KT 10SM CLR 22/13 A2992 RMK AO2 SLP129 T02220133 TAFs for KSNA KSNA 231720Z 231818 VRB05KT P6SM SKC FM1900 21008KT P6SM SKC FM0300 VRB05KT P6SM SKC FM0900 VRB05KT P6SM OVC012 FM1700 VRB05KT P6SM SCT015 DO NOT ARCHIVE Best regards, Rob Housman Europa XS Tri-Gear A070 Airframe complete Irvine, CA -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com]On Behalf Of Rowland Carson Subject: Fwd: Re: Europa-List: TAS Calculations --> Europa-List message posted by: Rowland Carson Following forwarded from Dave Bosomworth: >Date: Thu, 23 Jun 2005 14:25:02 -0400 >From: DaveBuzz@aol.com >To: rowil@clara.net (Rowland Carson), paul.mcallister@qia.net >Subject: Re: Europa-List: TAS Calculations > >Hello Paul, Rowland, > Sorry, I'm off the email list due to holidays and courses - got to >manage the email somehow! Rowland, thanks for forwarding Paul's >query. > Paul, The spreadsheet maybe doesn't make it clear, but the temp >needs to be in Celsius. At first glance I suspect that +16 is >Farenheit? If so, then changing it to approx -8C (v. rough >calculation!) gives: >TAS 170Kt >DA 9670ft >Which would fit in with your figures. > What I would really like to know is what your indicated airspeed >was showing. > > Please let me know if this fixes the problem. >Many thanks, >dave Apologies - although it doesn't affect the spreadsheet I first quoted (which doesn't attempt to relate TAS & IAS) in my previous posting, I completely forgot that the former colonies are still using the old imperial units of temperature - I guess the sun has not yet set on the british empire .... regards Rowland -- | Wilma & Rowland Carson | ... that's Rowland with a 'w' ... ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:00:05 PM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Re: Re: Europa-List: TAS Calculations --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Hi all, I responded to Dave off list. Nope, I used Celsius, so that doesn't seem to be the problem. Unfortunately I didn't record the IAS, but if I get a nice evening next week I will repeat the experiment. Paul do not archive >>Subject: Re: Europa-List: TAS Calculations >> >>Hello Paul, Rowland, >> Paul, The spreadsheet maybe doesn't make it clear, but the temp >>needs to be in Celsius. At first glance I suspect that +16 is >>Farenheit? If so, then changing it to approx -8C (v. rough >>calculation!) gives: >>TAS 170Kt >>DA 9670ft ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:33:05 PM PST US From: MJKTuck@cs.com Subject: Europa-List: New Future Europa Pilot --> Europa-List message posted by: MJKTuck@cs.com Hi Folks, I'm happy to announce that Amanda Ruth Christine Tuck was born on June 21st at 7.45 am. Her weight and balance sheet showed 9 lb. 3 oz. Mother and daughter doing well. Being daughter number 2 I'm beginning to feel slightly outnumbered and may be spending more time in the hanger in a couple of years! Regards, Martin Tuck Europa N152MT Wichita, Kansas ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 08:23:12 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Filling, Sending, Painting the beast. From: Jacques.POINT@total.com 14, 2004) at 06/24/2005 05:20:58 AM, Serialize complete at 06/24/2005 05:20:58 AM, Itemize by SMTP Server on XFRPAR-HE03/GROUP/Corp(Release 6.5.1|January 21, 2004) at 24/06/2005 05:20:58, Serialize by Router on XFRPAR-HE03/GROUP/Corp(Release 6.5.1|January 21, 2004) at 24/06/2005 05:20:59, Serialize complete at 24/06/2005 05:20:59 --> Europa-List message posted by: Jacques.POINT@total.com Thanks Paul, I did not have the right reflex to check the archives.... lot of use full info there! For info, the site indicated in your mail has moved to: www.saragan.org/europa forum Regards Jacques POINT ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 08:47:04 PM PST US From: N55XS Subject: Re: Europa-List: Tie-Down --> Europa-List message posted by: N55XS Richard, It might be possible to use an extended version of the "eye bolt" (actually a flat aluminum plate) and have it penetrate through the fairing. I've elected to not use the fairings, so I can't say for sure... Jeff - N55XS Waiting on the FAA ... Richard Iddon wrote: >--> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard Iddon" > >The 'Eyebolts' on N55XS on the web site look good but my tri gear has >fairings on the flap hinges. Any bright idea's on how to add wing tie >downs to this configuration? > >Richard Iddon G-RIXS > >Matthew Carpenter wrote: > > > >>--> Europa-List message posted by: Matthew Carpenter >> >> > >................ > > >>How have you guys tied down the wings without eye bolts? >> >> >Matt, > >Check out my September 30 entry at my build site for a simple and >effective wing tie down system... >http://www.n55xs.com > > >