---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Mon 06/27/05: 17 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:41 AM - Re: painting (Brian Davies) 2. 02:30 AM - DOTH for Tuesday? (Richard Iddon) 3. 04:40 AM - Re: Torque tube ball bearings? (Mike Gregory) 4. 05:43 AM - Hydrostatic pressure fuel level measurement? (Jan de Jong) 5. 08:31 AM - Painting (Erich Trombley) 6. 09:56 AM - RE : Tail wheel (mau11) 7. 10:00 AM - DOTH Tuesday update (Richard Iddon) 8. 10:26 AM - Re: Hydrostatic pressure fuel level measurement? (Paul McAllister) 9. 12:08 PM - Re: Torque tube ball bearings? (R.C.Harrison) 10. 12:34 PM - Flying XS Mono in snow? (Ronald J. Parigoris) 11. 01:10 PM - Re: DOTH Tuesday update (Bryan Allsop) 12. 01:36 PM - Re: Flying XS Mono in snow? (Jos Okhuijsen) 13. 09:25 PM - Re: DOTH Tuesday update (Kingsley Hurst) 14. 10:39 PM - Re: DOTH Tuesday update (Richard Iddon) 15. 10:45 PM - Re: DOTH Tuesday update (R.C.Harrison) 16. 10:48 PM - Re: DOTH Tuesday update (Tony Krzyzewski) 17. 11:20 PM - Re: DOTH Tuesday update (Kingsley Hurst) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:41:25 AM PST US From: "Brian Davies" Subject: Re: Europa-List: painting --> Europa-List message posted by: "Brian Davies" Paul, I painted the spar and root ribs. They dont need anything more than a simple rub down to ensure good bonding and a coat of primer and top coat. Brian Davies Kit 454 installing engine- getting close! ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Stewart" Subject: Europa-List: painting > --> Europa-List message posted by: Paul Stewart > > Have folk painted the wing root ribs and spar or not? If not what about > IV protection for these areas while on trailers etc. Grateful to know > what others have done > > Regards > > Paul Stewart > G-GIDY > sanding sanding sanding sand....... > > ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 02:30:01 AM PST US From: "Richard Iddon" Subject: Europa-List: DOTH for Tuesday? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard Iddon" Anyone out to play tomorrow? The weather looks ok, at least for us northerners. How about Sheffield City, freebie in Pilot mag I understand. (PPR essential) Richard Iddon G-RIXS Do not archive ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 04:40:03 AM PST US From: "Mike Gregory" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Torque tube ball bearings? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Gregory" Ron, Yes, Tony Wakefield used sealed needle roller bearings on the torque tube of G-OEZY, kit No 42, because the supplied bronze bearings with this early kit appeared heavy and stiff. He thought the stiffness might contribute to the hunting in pitch that was observed with Ivan Shaw's prototype, although the fitting of Flettner strips on the tabs subsequently cured this characteristic. He can't quote a part number for the bearings, but they were standard items from a supplier such as Bearing Services Ltd in UK. Tony's comment was that he could see no advantage in weight or cost by using plain bearings. To be fair to Europa I don't think their design has proved unsatisfactory in service, but in anyone has had trouble no doubt they will speak up on the forum. Regards Mike Gregory Europa Club Safety Officer --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" In the past week, 2 people, 1 of which was our DAR after looking at the now bonded in torque tube bushings asked why we are using bushings instead of ball bearings? Has anyone installed ball bearings on the torque tube? Has anyone ever had the bushings wear and need replacement? Thx. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 05:43:22 AM PST US From: Jan de Jong Subject: Europa-List: Hydrostatic pressure fuel level measurement? --> Europa-List message posted by: Jan de Jong Tony Krzyzewski designed a non-invasive hydrostatic pressure fuel quantity measurement several years ago. A problem is that there is no obvious possibility for self calibration once it is in operation. But then, sometimes things work better than expected, sometimes worse. I'm wondering how the pressure measurement has fared in practice? Are people using it? What size errors? Suspected error sources - sensor and/or other variability? Long term stability of the sensor? Error modes - mostly offset or gain too? Has a combination with one or two digital single level sensors been tried? Might mechanically switching the sensor pressure input (break before make) for a periodic 1-point recalibration be feasible (and useful)? Grateful for any data and insights, Jan de Jong 461, the wings ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 08:31:41 AM PST US From: "Erich Trombley" Subject: Europa-List: Painting --> Europa-List message posted by: "Erich Trombley" Paul, yes to both parts, for the reason you cite. Erich Trombley N28ET 914 Mono Classic Have folk painted the wing root ribs and spar or not? If not what about IV protection for these areas while on trailers etc. Grateful to know what others have done Regards Paul Stewart G-GIDY sanding sanding sanding sand....... Get Juno Platinum for as low as $6.95/month! Visit http://www.juno.com/bestoffer to sign up today! ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 09:56:16 AM PST US From: "mau11" Subject: RE : Europa-List: Tail wheel --> Europa-List message posted by: "mau11" Hello Tony please is it possible to send to me your tailwheel document Thanks Michel builder N145 -----Message d'origine----- De: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] De la part de Tony Krzyzewski Envoy: lundi 20 juin 2005 00:37 : europa-list@matronics.com Objet: RE: Europa-List: Tail wheel --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Krzyzewski" OK ... So I stuffed up and posted this to the group instead of straight to Charlie. Apologies. Tony Charlie You might find the attached document useful for modifying the tailwheel. Page size is A4. Regards tony ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 10:00:46 AM PST US From: "Richard Iddon" Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Tuesday update --> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard Iddon" If going to Sheffield Tuesday, and have never visited the field before, it seems you need to fax a PPR form before setting off with pilot details etc. The form can be downloaded from their web site at http://www.sheffieldcityairport.com/downloads/PPRConfirmation.doc Richard Iddon G-RIXS ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 10:26:31 AM PST US From: "Paul McAllister" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Hydrostatic pressure fuel level measurement? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Paul McAllister" Jan, I have one and it works well. The software allows you to calibrate it with a laptop and once I set it up I have not needed to revisit it in one year of operation. I currently have the static side of the pressure sensor connected to the tank vent, which is not as per Tony's design. I find that when I descend the fuel gauge reads low. I have been meaning to vent it as per Tony's design, however I have a fuel totalizer which works well, hence there hasn't been any pressing need. In closing, if you want a non invasive means of measuring your fuel contents then Tony's gauge works fine. Paul ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jan de Jong" Subject: Europa-List: Hydrostatic pressure fuel level measurement? > --> Europa-List message posted by: Jan de Jong > > Tony Krzyzewski designed a non-invasive hydrostatic pressure fuel > quantity measurement several years ago. > A problem is that there is no obvious possibility for self calibration > once it is in operation. But then, sometimes things work better than > expected, sometimes worse. > I'm wondering how the pressure measurement has fared in practice? > Are people using it? > What size errors? > Suspected error sources - sensor and/or other variability? > Long term stability of the sensor? > Error modes - mostly offset or gain too? > Has a combination with one or two digital single level sensors been tried? > Might mechanically switching the sensor pressure input (break before > make) for a periodic 1-point recalibration be feasible (and useful)? > > Grateful for any data and insights, > Jan de Jong > 461, the wings > > > ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 12:08:31 PM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: Torque tube ball bearings? --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Ron ...Mike The original Phosphor Bronze bushings IMHO are quite adequate except they need the addition of a grease nipples which I have in G-PTAG Regards Bob Harrison G-PTAG Europa MKI/Jabiru 3300 -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Mike Gregory Subject: RE: Europa-List: Torque tube ball bearings? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Mike Gregory" Ron, Yes, Tony Wakefield used sealed needle roller bearings on the torque tube of G-OEZY, kit No 42, because the supplied bronze bearings with this early kit appeared heavy and stiff. He thought the stiffness might contribute to the hunting in pitch that was observed with Ivan Shaw's prototype, although the fitting of Flettner strips on the tabs subsequently cured this characteristic. He can't quote a part number for the bearings, but they were standard items from a supplier such as Bearing Services Ltd in UK. Tony's comment was that he could see no advantage in weight or cost by using plain bearings. To be fair to Europa I don't think their design has proved unsatisfactory in service, but in anyone has had trouble no doubt they will speak up on the forum. Regards Mike Gregory Europa Club Safety Officer --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" In the past week, 2 people, 1 of which was our DAR after looking at the now bonded in torque tube bushings asked why we are using bushings instead of ball bearings? Has anyone installed ball bearings on the torque tube? Has anyone ever had the bushings wear and need replacement? Thx. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 12:34:46 PM PST US From: "Ronald J. Parigoris" Subject: Europa-List: Flying XS Mono in snow? --> Europa-List message posted by: "Ronald J. Parigoris" I would imagine you would not want to knowingly fly a XS Mono on ice, as there would be little to no control with tailwheel. Anyone fly off of fluffy snow? How much? Hardpacked snow? Is it not recommended ever? thx. Ron Parigoris ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 01:10:13 PM PST US From: "Bryan Allsop" Subject: Re: Europa-List: DOTH Tuesday update --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop" I will be there to have my medical at 11.45 am. Bryan Do not archive ----- Original Message ----- From: "Richard Iddon" Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Tuesday update > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard Iddon" > > If going to Sheffield Tuesday, and have never visited the field before, > it seems you need to fax a PPR form before setting off with pilot > details etc. The form can be downloaded from their web site at > http://www.sheffieldcityairport.com/downloads/PPRConfirmation.doc > > Richard Iddon G-RIXS > > > > > > > ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 01:36:40 PM PST US Subject: Re: Europa-List: Flying XS Mono in snow? From: "Jos Okhuijsen" --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jos Okhuijsen" It's my reason to pick the monowheel. But i am still building it, so i have not tried it yet. My limited experience is with a supercub on skies, where the tailwheel has a little ski attached. Works great, it is easy to take off and land on skies. One catch is the white-out, another is that you have to be sure the snow is not too deep, or that there is water under the snow. We check that by doing some speed touch and go, go around and check the traks made, before the real landing. But snow is soft, and my runway is 3 by 6 miles. My expectation is that the monowheel will work as a front ski, but i am not quite sure what the support wheels will do. Maybe i will need some mini skies there as well. Regards, Jos Okhuijsen ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 09:25:43 PM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: RE: Europa-List: DOTH Tuesday update --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" > it seems you need to fax a PPR form . . . . . What does the acronym 'PPR' mean please gentlemen ? I downloaded the form thinking it would tell me but Alas, it says Appendix Eleven Confirmation of PPR request for Sheffield City Airport Do not archive Thanks Kingsley ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 10:39:34 PM PST US From: "Richard Iddon" Subject: RE: Europa-List: DOTH Tuesday update --> Europa-List message posted by: "Richard Iddon" Kingsley. PPR = Prior Permission Required. i.e. in the UK, at some fields we have to ask if they would be kind enough to let us land and pay an exorbitant landing fee. Regards. Richard Iddon G-RIXS Do not archive -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kingsley Hurst Subject: RE: Europa-List: DOTH Tuesday update --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" > it seems you need to fax a PPR form . . . . . What does the acronym 'PPR' mean please gentlemen ? I downloaded the form thinking it would tell me but Alas, it says Appendix Eleven Confirmation of PPR request for Sheffield City Airport Do not archive Thanks Kingsley ________________________________ Message 15 ____________________________________ Time: 10:45:03 PM PST US From: "R.C.Harrison" Subject: RE: Europa-List: DOTH Tuesday update --> Europa-List message posted by: "R.C.Harrison" Hi! Kingsley PPR= Prior Phone Request. We have just pinched some of your Aussie Weather! You aren't thinking of going world wide are you? Regards Bob H G-PTAG Do not archive.... -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kingsley Hurst Subject: RE: Europa-List: DOTH Tuesday update --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" > it seems you need to fax a PPR form . . . . . What does the acronym 'PPR' mean please gentlemen ? I downloaded the form thinking it would tell me but Alas, it says Appendix Eleven Confirmation of PPR request for Sheffield City Airport Do not archive Thanks Kingsley ________________________________ Message 16 ____________________________________ Time: 10:48:20 PM PST US Subject: RE: Europa-List: DOTH Tuesday update From: "Tony Krzyzewski" Received-SPF: none --> Europa-List message posted by: "Tony Krzyzewski" Prior Permission Required Ie Phone us before you arrive, a quaint English aviation tradition to ensure that the lower classes don't land at upper class airports :) Tony ------------------------------------------ Tony Krzyzewski Kaon Technologies Ltd Managing Director PO Box 58521 Ph 09 274 1590 Greenmount Fx 09 274 1593 Auckland ========================================== Scanned by MXtreme - EAL4+ Mail Firewall To view our latest newsletter visit www.kaon.co.nz/newsletter/kaonnewsletterjune05.htm ------------------------------------------ -----Original Message----- From: owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com [mailto:owner-europa-list-server@matronics.com] On Behalf Of Kingsley Hurst Subject: RE: Europa-List: DOTH Tuesday update --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" --> > it seems you need to fax a PPR form . . . . . What does the acronym 'PPR' mean please gentlemen ? I downloaded the form thinking it would tell me but Alas, it says Appendix Eleven Confirmation of PPR request for Sheffield City Airport Do not archive Thanks Kingsley ________________________________ Message 17 ____________________________________ Time: 11:20:41 PM PST US From: "Kingsley Hurst" Subject: RE: Europa-List: DOTH Tuesday update --> Europa-List message posted by: "Kingsley Hurst" > PPR = Prior Permission Required. i.e. in the UK, at some fields we have to ask if they would be kind enough to let us land and pay an exorbitant landing fee. Thanks Richard, I hope our mob don't hear about this ! ! > PPR= Prior Phone Request. We have just pinched some of your Aussie Weather! You aren't thinking of going world wide are you? Thanks to you too Bob. How much sunshine would you like mate ? We normally have plenty to spare. Actually, in the last two weeks we have had 90 mm (3.5") of rain, glorious rain. There are actually people with smiling faces again over here now and there are a couple of rivers out West with flood warnings. . . can you believe that ? Last Saturday I had to do a 320km trip by car. You could not imagine a nicer day for flying (Vis 40+ miles) absolutely crystal clear. It hurts anytime having to drive but on Saturday it was b***y painful. Do not archive Cheers Kingsley