---------------------------------------------------------- Europa-List Digest Archive --- Total Messages Posted Wed 07/27/05: 14 ---------------------------------------------------------- Today's Message Index: ---------------------- 1. 12:15 AM - Re: Radio reception problems (Geoff Leedham) 2. 01:27 AM - IOM Airshow 6th & 7th August (Alan Burrows) 3. 03:11 AM - Re: Re: Radio reception problems () 4. 04:06 AM - Radio Shack (Fergus Kyle) 5. 04:40 AM - Re: Radio Shack () 6. 07:57 AM - DV Panels (Bill and Sue) 7. 09:54 AM - Re: Radio reception problems (Fred Fillinger) 8. 12:27 PM - DOTH Branscombe Sunday 31 July (Duncan McFadyean) 9. 01:18 PM - Re: DV Panels (steve v.) 10. 01:55 PM - Re: Length overall on the trailer (Jacques Point) 11. 02:06 PM - Re: Subaru EJ22 (Jacques Point) 12. 03:03 PM - Re: Radio reception problems (Bryan Allsop) 13. 05:02 PM - Re: Re: Subaru EJ22 (tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au) 14. 07:34 PM - Re: Re: Subaru EJ22 (GLENN CROWDER) ________________________________ Message 1 _____________________________________ Time: 12:15:36 AM PST US From: "Geoff Leedham" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Radio reception problems --> Europa-List message posted by: "Geoff Leedham" > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" >> 2) The squelch is either over enthusiastic or being >> triggered by noise...from the engine, GPS etc > > GPS can't do anything to VHF, but engine or strobe etc. noise is Hi Fred On my installation, when I swich off the GPS (Skyforce Skymap2) the background static type noise heard when receiving dissapears. This problem only seems to occur at upper frequencies and is still there if the GPS runs off its own batteries. (when I tune to Birmingham 118.05 all is clear) Any ideas how to fix. Geoff Leedham G-EOFS 914 trigear Icom IC-A200 vhf, Bob Archer antenna mounted in the rear of fus. behind baggage bay. ________________________________ Message 2 _____________________________________ Time: 01:27:24 AM PST US From: "Alan Burrows" Subject: Europa-List: IOM Airshow 6th & 7th August --> Europa-List message posted by: "Alan Burrows" Hi All Well its that time of year again. The Isle of Man airshow is almost upon us and I hope as many Europhiles as possible can make it over this year. We do have a couple of advantages over the other visiting aircraft, which of course must be kept totally secret. The first is that Kate has "volunteered" to do the radio, so Europa pilots will be given priority over other visitors, Imagine the call; RAF Pilot.......Harrier 14Z on downwind for runway 24 Kate........Harrier 14Z you are No 4 to a Europa just coasting out at Liverpool and three others who said they would be here sometime soon. A nice situation to be in guys! Anyhow we also have a live radio outside broadcast from the event providing music that runs on into the evening with a hog roast also available, so its worth bringing your tent and staying over. There is the usual high standard of aircraft arriving to "strut their stuff" in addition to a few F1 cars racing chipmonks etc. The event is on 6th & 7th August. Hope you can all make it over and if anyone wants help with paperwork etc. please contact me off line at alan@kestrel-insurance.com and I will provide whatever assistance I can. Look forward to seeing everyone at the event Alan Burrows PS Say hello to Kate when you make your radio call :-) ________________________________ Message 3 _____________________________________ Time: 03:11:48 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Re: Europa-List: Radio reception problems --> Europa-List message posted by: I think it would take a very brave man to state that the GPS doesn't emit any frequencies that would affect a VHF comm set. I've worked with EMC for quite a while and you'd be surprise how some innocuous devices make great little transmitters! There is a nice big CPU inside the GPS (a 68000 derivative if memory serves me correctly) - this will be clocked at about 25-50Mhz but if the designers haven't done their job well, there will be harmonics at 25MHz spacing for quite a long way up. Next time I'm getting a problem (if the wx ever clears up), I'll have a go at shutting the GPS off and seeing if that does affect things (don't think I'm brave enough to try same with the engine!). > > From: "Fred Fillinger" > Date: 2005/07/27 Wed AM 04:43:44 BST > To: > Subject: Re: Europa-List: Radio reception problems > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Peter Rees": > > > ...sometimes we can hear / be heard > > from a good distance away > > but on occasions, we can't hear Rochester until we > > are within about 5 miles of them (122.25Mhz). > > If at all times off the nose, or same azimuth point elsewhere, it > could be a simple matter of which of their transmitters they're using. > They need not have the same xmit power, but if an installation is > performing poorly, above can happen. When you have squares and logs > in the math, seemingly small matters can then cause extreme results! > > Like get this. At only 100AGL over really flat terrain, theory says > at 5 miles you should hear ATC if they were using a 100milliwatt > transmitter! Something's not working well at all. > > > 1) the aerials gain isn't over the required range - > > It's the loss, not the gain. Only a directional antenna can have gain > of practical use. There is a small, omnidirectional gain of 2.2db due > to pure physics. If there's greater than 2.2 in some directions, > other points around the circle _must_ have a loss. But if a loss in > one direction, there may not be a gain anywhere else, depending upon > what a nearby metal element is doing (like changing the signal's > polarization). > > > this could easily be fixed by > > a more conventional aviation aerial > > The radiating pattern of a whip antenna pointed down is somewhat > better than a dipole. However, more significant is where it's located > within a fuselage. External to the fuselage, and any problems go > away. > > > 2) The squelch is either over enthusiastic or being > > triggered by noise...from the engine, GPS etc > > GPS can't do anything to VHF, but engine or strobe etc. noise is > nothing but audio carrier modulation which makes no sense as spoken > words. Same as ATC with talent as a voice comic mimicing an > alternator whine into the mic. So squelch may break, and we hear > noise. It won't decrease ability to receive carrier, but rather as a > combined signal makes carrier stronger -- in a cheap circuit, squelch > can be broken. So Narco in its 810 uses a fancy circuit which > attempts to determine if words are being received. They call it > "squelch comparator and carrier override." IOW, ain't voice, so let's > ignore the stronger, noisy carrier and nothing is heard in the audio. > Works great! > > Reg, > Fred F. > > > > > > > ----------------------------------------- Email sent from http://www.ntlworld.com/ Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information ________________________________ Message 4 _____________________________________ Time: 04:06:53 AM PST US From: "Fergus Kyle" Subject: Europa-List: Radio Shack --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fergus Kyle" Cheers, I note that here in Canada, Radio Shack no longer exists and the storefront now proclaims "Source" for all mall enthusiasts to read. I wonder if this is so elsewhere, and whether it's just another wordsmithing ploy, or that the firm is sold and the sales program hints at abandoning the earlier line of products - in which case the silicon heat conductive paste for the plugs may disappear.............. Any more knowledgeable clues greatfully received. Happy Landings Ferg ________________________________ Message 5 _____________________________________ Time: 04:40:38 AM PST US From: Subject: Re: Europa-List: Radio Shack --> Europa-List message posted by: The silicon paste is pretty much standard in the electronics industry (though I don't know if the stuff we use is rated to be used at engine temperatures) - if you can't get it from Radio Shack, you should be able to get it mail order from any of the catalogue distributers (anyone who spells catalogue as catalog should be able to tell you who the best people to buy from are). Peter ----------------------------------------- Email sent from http://www.ntlworld.com/ Virus-checked using McAfee(R) Software Visit www.ntlworld.com/security for more information ________________________________ Message 6 _____________________________________ Time: 07:57:45 AM PST US From: "Bill and Sue" Subject: Europa-List: DV Panels --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bill and Sue" Sue and I are approaching time to bond the windows in (which probably means we're no where near it, but just haven't realised how much more there is to do first!) It would seem like a good time to get some DV panels fitted. I'm a bit nervous about attacking the perspex - anyone got any advice on how to go about it and/or useful contacts for parts please? Incidentally, if you haven't already spotted it, Grand Rapids have announced a "sport" version of their EFIS at $2795, it sounds wonderful from their website and I reckon the prospective cost of the panel falls at around the same rate as the firewall forward rises... I suppose there is some compensation for building slowly. Bill 465 -beginning to look like a plane, even to the non aviator. Just ascending the foothills of sanding (but deep in the mountains of dust). ________________________________ Message 7 _____________________________________ Time: 09:54:33 AM PST US From: "Fred Fillinger" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Radio reception problems --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Geoff Leedham" > On my installation, when I swich off the GPS (Skyforce Skymap2) the > background static type noise heard when receiving dissapears. Just as in a (cheap) plastic notebook computer, such a device can emit vigorous EMI, but rendered very weak if all else is up to snuff. Signal-to-noise ratio (S/N) can be computed on a 4-function calculator, as amplified S + amplified N equals amplified S + N. This is why a "TV only"offer of an amplified antenna to pull in distant FM stations works to only a very limited degeree, due to an unrelated phenomenon inside the receiver. For just 3 easy payments of $19.95! A fix by switching GPS off confirms that the strength of ATC VHF signals rec'd at the back of your receiver are really weak. Else, when ATC transmits, there should be no noise (a way new S/N ratio). Thus, implied receiver and/or antenna problems. When I get time, I'll separately post as to how to cobble a "reference" antenna to go flying with as a pax to hopefully narrow between the two sources. But it's noteworthy that you see upper frequencies affected, but OK down at 118 MHz. EMI doesn't have to have harmonics within the aviation band to be heard, but in your case sounds like it is, aggravating the problem. The EMI's fundamental has found a sweet spot on your radio dial. Else, the EMI strength decreases rapidly with the cube root of the distance to the antenna. Close enough, it's still noise. That's why we shouldn't bundle antenna coax with noisy wires. That's too up close and personal, but actually if the coax line is balanced (minimum VSWR), the noise can still self-cancel as far as the receiver is concerned. It rejects common mode. Reg, Fred F. ________________________________ Message 8 _____________________________________ Time: 12:27:01 PM PST US From: "Duncan McFadyean" Subject: Europa-List: DOTH Branscombe Sunday 31 July --> Europa-List message posted by: "Duncan McFadyean" One of hte better Devon Strut fly-ins is this weekend at Branscombe. Details at: http://www.sky4aviation.co.uk/sky4/index.html Asides from flight to a nice strip in S. Devon and the other ativities around the airfield (walks, cliffs, beach, pub, cream teas etc) there is usually a stunning air display (last year two P51Ds amongst others). You will need to PPR, be there probably before noon, and will be locked in during hte display (which is usually NOTAM'd). Duncan McF do not archive ________________________________ Message 9 _____________________________________ Time: 01:18:25 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: RE: DV Panels From: "steve v." 1.64 REPLY_TO_EMPTY Reply-To: is empty 0.10 TO_EMPTY To: is empty --> Europa-List message posted by: "steve v." hi, when you come to bond the side windows in , make sure you put plenty of preasure where the door handles attach , if the perspex is only slightly proud then the opening of the door handle will foul the perspex. good luck ! ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ ________________________________ Message 10 ____________________________________ Time: 01:55:40 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: RE: Length overall on the trailer From: "Jacques Point" 1.64 REPLY_TO_EMPTY Reply-To: is empty 0.10 TO_EMPTY To: is empty --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jacques Point" All together, trailer (from the factory) and # 148, from the towing hook to the very font of the propeller spinner: 5,25 meters. For your info Jacques # 148 .... few hours to launch the beast ??? ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ ________________________________ Message 11 ____________________________________ Time: 02:06:44 PM PST US Subject: Europa-List: RE: Subaru EJ22 From: "Jacques Point" 1.64 REPLY_TO_EMPTY Reply-To: is empty 0.10 TO_EMPTY To: is empty --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jacques Point" HI Tony, I am few months away from my first flight with mono # 148 and EJ 22 engine. I had no problem to fit the engine and a PSRU. My only problem so fare is that the PSRU doesn't quite fit into the cowling.... Will have to modify it slightly forward. As fare as weight is concerned, I have move the battery into the fuselage, as fare back as possible. Can sent few photos ... Regards Jacques ---------------- Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ ________________________________ Message 12 ____________________________________ Time: 03:03:02 PM PST US From: "Bryan Allsop" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Radio reception problems --> Europa-List message posted by: "Bryan Allsop" Fred, I looks as though the real problem lies in the low 120's frequency range, in the receive condition. The middle 130's range is a smaller problem in that we get a poor indistinct reception. In the lower 120's we get no reception at all at times. It is interesting that a number of correspondents are confirming the same phenomena. Undoubtedly there will be others who are watching but don't like to say anything, and there will be more who's aircraft never get exposed to the extremes where these characteristics display themselves. Perhaps we could focus on the antenna. What design shortcoming would cause a weak receive in this specific frequency range. It is not there at less than 120MHz, and it is not there at more than 124MHz. Indeed! Maybe there is some wavelength relationship between the low 120's and the above 134's that provides the clue. The floor is yours! We all await your thoughts with awe. You may even indulge yourself with the odd chicken or two, or even yet, - a door lintel, if it lubricates your creative urges. Seriously though, this is a problem that needs to be resolved. It is very disconcerting (and probably dangerous) to be out of touch with the control authority when negotiating their airspace. Best regards. Bryan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fred Fillinger" Subject: Re: Europa-List: Radio reception problems > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Fred Fillinger" > >> --> Europa-List message posted by: "Geoff Leedham" > > >> On my installation, when I swich off the GPS (Skyforce Skymap2) the >> background static type noise heard when receiving dissapears. > > Just as in a (cheap) plastic notebook computer, such a device can emit > vigorous EMI, but rendered very weak if all else is up to snuff. > Signal-to-noise ratio (S/N) can be computed on a 4-function > calculator, as amplified S + amplified N equals amplified S + N. This > is why a "TV only"offer of an amplified antenna to pull in distant FM > stations works to only a very limited degeree, due to an unrelated > phenomenon inside the receiver. For just 3 easy payments of $19.95! > > A fix by switching GPS off confirms that the strength of ATC VHF > signals rec'd at the back of your receiver are really weak. Else, > when ATC transmits, there should be no noise (a way new S/N ratio). > Thus, implied receiver and/or antenna problems. > > When I get time, I'll separately post as to how to cobble a > "reference" antenna to go flying with as a pax to hopefully narrow > between the two sources. > > But it's noteworthy that you see upper frequencies affected, but OK > down at 118 MHz. EMI doesn't have to have harmonics within the > aviation band to be heard, but in your case sounds like it is, > aggravating the problem. The EMI's fundamental has found a sweet spot > on your radio dial. Else, the EMI strength decreases rapidly with the > cube root of the distance to the antenna. Close enough, it's still > noise. That's why we shouldn't bundle antenna coax with noisy wires. > That's too up close and personal, but actually if the coax line is > balanced (minimum VSWR), the noise can still self-cancel as far as the > receiver is concerned. It rejects common mode. > > Reg, > Fred F. > > > ________________________________ Message 13 ____________________________________ Time: 05:02:27 PM PST US From: tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Subaru EJ22 --> Europa-List message posted by: tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au Gidday Jacques, Good on you for trying something different. Was the mount a hard thing to design?, and is it the one I have seen on the web somewhere that has part of the weight transferred onto the top of the front of the footwells? I have no problem with that setup....whatever it takes really. I'd love photos, as many as you can part with. I was tempted by the ease of the engine being able to be worked on locally, in Sydney where I live. Anyone, within reason, can do work on it for you. A specialist shop of course would be the very least I'd be after, but there is lots of after market parts available to modify and tweak that extra horsepower out of it. I was sent a link of an engine in the US that is $7000.00. It has spent some time n the front of a highwing, but the problem is that it weighs 330 lbs all up. As I understand it that is nearly double a 914. I would really like to put a rotary in there, but it too is heavy, and the combustion pulses destroy composite propellors. Also they ar! e a bit thirsty. The Subaru however might be simply a simpler, somewhat heavier, but far more flexible version of the Rotax. Any photos or advice, about whether you'd do it again would be greatly appreciated. If for example you have the engine mount details, I'd happily buy the info from you, as you have obviously spent time and a lot of money developing an outcome. So, whatever, whenever,.....much appreciated. Reg Tony Renshaw Sydney Australia > Jacques Point wrote: > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jacques Point" > > > HI Tony, > > I am few months away from my first flight with mono # 148 and EJ 22 > engine. I had no problem to fit the engine and a PSRU. My only problem > so fare is that the PSRU doesn't quite fit into the cowling.... Will > have to modify it slightly forward. > As fare as weight is concerned, I have move the battery into the > fuselage, as fare back as possible. > > Can sent few photos ... > > Regards > > Jacques > ---------------- > Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ > > ________________________________ Message 14 ____________________________________ Time: 07:34:06 PM PST US From: "GLENN CROWDER" Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Subaru EJ22 --> Europa-List message posted by: "GLENN CROWDER" Hey Tony! Theres lots of info and articles on aircraft conversions using the EJ22 at the bottom of this page: http://www.sdsefi.com/aircraft.html SDS EM-4: Aircraft (Scroll down to the very bottom of the page to see the articles). The article on cooling the EJ22T is very helpful. Also the Racetech RV6A with the EJ22T article has tons of info, comparing the EJ powered plane performance to an almost identical Lycoming IO-320 powered one. Happy Soobing! Glenn >From: tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au >Reply-To: europa-list@matronics.com >To: europa-list@matronics.com >Subject: Re: Europa-List: RE: Subaru EJ22 >Date: Thu, 28 Jul 2005 10:01:02 +1000 > >--> Europa-List message posted by: tonyrenshaw@optusnet.com.au > >Gidday Jacques, >Good on you for trying something different. Was the mount a hard thing to >design?, and is it the one I have seen on the web somewhere that has part >of the weight transferred onto the top of the front of the footwells? I >have no problem with that setup....whatever it takes really. I'd love >photos, as many as you can part with. I was tempted by the ease of the >engine being able to be worked on locally, in Sydney where I live. Anyone, >within reason, can do work on it for you. A specialist shop of course would >be the very least I'd be after, but there is lots of after market parts >available to modify and tweak that extra horsepower out of it. I was sent a >link of an engine in the US that is $7000.00. It has spent some time n the >front of a highwing, but the problem is that it weighs 330 lbs all up. As I >understand it that is nearly double a 914. I would really like to put a >rotary in there, but it too is heavy, and the combustion pulses destroy >composite propellors. Also they ar! > e a bit thirsty. The Subaru however might be simply a simpler, somewhat >heavier, but far more flexible version of the Rotax. Any photos or advice, >about whether you'd do it again would be greatly appreciated. If for >example you have the engine mount details, I'd happily buy the info from >you, as you have obviously spent time and a lot of money developing an >outcome. So, whatever, whenever,.....much appreciated. >Reg >Tony Renshaw >Sydney Australia > > > > Jacques Point wrote: > > > > --> Europa-List message posted by: "Jacques Point" > > > > > > HI Tony, > > > > I am few months away from my first flight with mono # 148 and EJ 22 > > engine. I had no problem to fit the engine and a PSRU. My only problem > > so fare is that the PSRU doesn't quite fit into the cowling.... Will > > have to modify it slightly forward. > > As fare as weight is concerned, I have move the battery into the > > fuselage, as fare back as possible. > > > > Can sent few photos ... > > > > Regards > > > > Jacques > > ---------------- > > Visit EuropaOwnersForum http://www.europaowners.org/ > > > > > >